Rev!!

Oh my goodness , if I had any doubt before I don't anymore , I am quite sure you are in love with me!!

You have repeatedly defended my positions from post to post , thank you ,

People , I think we should pause for a moment and absorb the shock , in case you missed it , here it is again

Reverend:

@Pataki


Paul explains the significance of sexual immorality by writing, "Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, 'The two will become one flesh.'" (1 Corinthians 6:15).

In quoting Genesis 2:24, many believe Paul is referring to sexual intercourse with a prostitute as marriage.

If this view of Paul's teaching is correct, premarital sex is philosophically impossible because sexual intercourse is one form of marriage therefore the technical phrasing is simply "marital sex".

For those of you who know Rev you know this is a miracle! The Bible bashing Reverend has just quoted Biblical Scripture!! Chineke!!!!

Wow , Rev , I am so proud of you , it just goes to show there is hope for you after all , Well Done =D>

@ trinigirl,read these scriptures,if you're a Christian willing to learn from the Bible then your questions are answered.

[b]1Cr 7:1   Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: [It is] good for a man not to touch a woman.  
1Cr 7:2   Nevertheless, [to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.  
1Cr 7:3   Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.  
1Cr 7:4   The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.  
1Cr 7:5   Defraud ye not one the other, except [it be] with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.  
1Cr 7:6   But I speak this by permission, [and] not of commandment.  
1Cr 7:7   For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.  
1Cr 7:8   I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.  
1Cr 7:9   But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.  
1Cr 7:10   And unto the married I command, [yet] not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from [her] husband:  
1Cr 7:11   But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to [her] husband: and let not the husband put away [his] wife.  [/b]

the operating words there are wife and husband not engaged or constant partner intending to marry you.

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them(especially the likes of reverend)

trini_girl:

Let me then spell it out for you then, since you can't seem to grasp implied expressions.  Pre marital sex is NOT a sin.

So that's your stated position.

So let me ask you this;

If as a consequence of pre-marital sex a girl becomes pregnant and delivers a child, as long as marriage is the stated aim, then no sin has been committed is that right? In fact, said couple could have a number of children right trini?

The word fornication comes from three separate words in the Bible, two from the Hebrew and one from the Greek. These words all share similar connotations. Each can mean literal fornication between two unmarried persons in a marriage contract; however, it can also signify adultery, whoredom, or an act of unfaithfulness on the part of Yahweh’s people.

The first place the word fornication is used in the Old Testament is found in II Chronicles 21:81. The word fornication found in this passage is from the Hebrew, No. 2181, Zanah, and is defined by Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible as follows: "to commit adultery (usually on the female, and less often of simple fornication, rarely of involuntary ravishment); fig. To commit idolatry (the Jewish people being regarded as the spouse of [Yahweh])…"

One thing that might be noted is that the Strong’s only offers a broad definition and not an exact definition. Therefore, to completely understand the usage of a particular word in the Hebrew or Greek, one must examine the context of the passage in question.

Many times you may find a more detailed definition in a word study or a lexicon. While, these sources often prove to be valuable in the understanding of many Hebrew and Greek words, a person also must acknowledge the fact that these were written by man and can be inaccurate in some instances.

For example, The Complete Word Study Old Testament offers a more decisive definition than found in Strong’s. It notes on page 2312 in its Lexical Aid, "To fornicate, commit fornication, be a harlot, play the harlot, commit adultery; to apostatize, have intercourse with false g-ds or foreigners; to seduce. The main idea is to commit illicit sexual intercourse, particularly with women. However, this strong image is used in a figurative sense to describe illegal contact between Israel and other nations and their g-ds…"

The Complete Word Study Old Testament suggests three possible meanings for the Hebrew word "zanah." The first being fornication (pre-marital, illicit sex), the second being adultery (marital, illicit sex), and the third being idolatry (worship of a person or thing besides Yahweh).

The second word denoting fornication in the English is found only once in the Hebrew, in Ezekiel 16:29. The word fornication in this passage is from the Hebrew, No. 8457, taznuth, and simply means a type of idolatry. Being that this word is only used once, the quest for an exact definition should not be too exhausting.

The third word signifying fornication is found in the Greek and is first used in Matthew 5:32. This word derives from the Greek word, No. 4202, porneia and is defined in the Strong’s as follows, "from 4203; harlotry (incl. Adultery and incest); fig. Idolatry: - fornication."

Again, we only find a broad definition for this Greek word, "porneia." Porneia is used 32 times in the New Testament and conveys many different definitions.

For example, the word fornication in Matthew 5:32 is often taken to denote an act of adultery, however an in-depth study will prove this understanding false, and confirm the real usage of this Greek word "porneia" in this particular passage, which is fornication, pre-material sex.

In the fifth chapter of 1 Corinthians Paul admonishes the Corinthian assembly to remove the sin that they were allowing in the assembly. One of the sins listed by the Apostle was a gentile committing "fornication" with his father’s wife. Now this is not what we consider fornication, but more accurately this signifies incest with his stepmother.

Trying to pinpoint this word without examining the passage in question is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Fornication in either the Hebrew or Greek can have and denote a wide range of definitions. It can mean literal fornication, adultery, harlotry, incest, pedophilia, bestiality, or any other sexual restriction that Yahweh has placed for mankind to observe.

http://www.yrm.org/qna-fornication.htm

goodguy:


You do not need an argument.  What you need is fact, and that has been provided already.  If you'll agree with thousands of definitions of words offered by the dictionary, but will be so quick to reject the definition of a single word offered by the same dictionary, just to suit your own prejudice, then I see that as pure hypocrisy.

What the hell are you saying, you're rambling ,  I hate rambling it gives me headaches   

One rambles when they are confused and personally offended, and don't have an intelligent response ,  next I expect the name calling to start ,  please ,  digress not abeg.

@ Reverend,
Funny how the same bible, in which you detest, is the same bible you make a reference to buttress your point to me.
I will take time to quote the 1 Corithians 6:15 here:

6:15 Don’t you know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be!
6:16 Or don’t you know that he who is joined to a prostitute is one body? For, “The two,” says he, “will become one flesh.”
6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit.
6:18 Flee sexual immorality! “Every sin that a man does is outside the body,” but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
6:19 Or don’t you know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have from God? You are not your own,
6:20 for you were bought with a price. Therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.


Now to address you a bit here and trini_girl, just for the records I have gone astray here in the area of fornication or better put pre marital sex. When you engage in premarital sex as Paul has rightly states here, there is a unification in the sprit realm which occurs. though you may find what i say has been abstract, but has Paul has said, what you do with your body also affects your spirit thats why he said that in verse 16 that he who joins with a prostitute, joins with her in the spirit too relating it to Verse 19 as shown above. Being in One implies both the Spirit as well as the body.

So trini_girl, just incase you have been indulginig in such, there is forgiveness in Christ. Babayosisi asked you a question, what would happen if you are engaged in pre-marital sex and at that point in time, Christ returns, tell me what happens?
I have indulged in it before, but thanks God for Gods grace that is sufficient for us all.

@ trini girl

Even the reputable Answers.com recognises the fact that the verb, Fornicate, has only one meaning: "have sex without being married".

Educate yourself:  http://www.answers.com/topic/fornication


You can also check this link for the various meanings of the word, and see how pre-marital sex is a major synonym:

http://jesus-messiah.com/html/fornication-meaning.html

trini_girl:

What the hell are you saying, you're rambling , I hate rambling it gives me headaches ,  

Just incase you didn't know, the word, "ramble" was derived from the greek word, "rambo", which means, "to speak the truth". Don't mind/believe those 'biased' lexicographers that have manipulated the whole thing to suit their needs. What you think is the meaning of the word is not the true real root meaning at all.

@ goodguy

Plagiarism at it's worst,  please ,  I have no time to read 3000 word posts ,  please make a point.

Ok , I read it , where are the facts to back up this article u plagiarised?

babyosisi:

@ trinigirl,read these scriptures,if you're a Christian willing to learn from the Bible then your questions are answered.

[b]1Cr 7:1   Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: [It is] good for a man not to touch a woman.  
1Cr 7:2   Nevertheless, [to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.  
1Cr 7:3   Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.  
1Cr 7:4   The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.  
1Cr 7:5   Defraud ye not one the other, except [it be] with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.  
1Cr 7:6   But I speak this by permission, [and] not of commandment.  
1Cr 7:7   For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.  
1Cr 7:8   I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.  
1Cr 7:9   But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.  
1Cr 7:10   And unto the married I command, [yet] not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from [her] husband:  
1Cr 7:11   But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to [her] husband: and let not the husband put away [his] wife.  [/b]

Before Paul started all this, you do know sissi, that he was speaking his own opinion when he said "it is good for a man not to touch a woman" ,  you know that right? I hope so ,  or do u take that literally?  

Thank God Paul clearly shows where he expresses his own opinion, and where instructions come from God.

The only relevent scripture here is the one in red ,  the others speak to marriage ,  please try to stay on point.

The reference to fornication here again, means, in order to stay away from sexing all sorts of women all over the place, get married ,  and be with one woman ,  because it's better to get married than to burn with lust!

So ,  exactly what are you trying to say?

@ Reverend,
Sometimes just because you are so prejudiced in your reasoning, you loose all logical patterns of thought and accurate reasoning.

Do you know the technicalities involved in the terminology called Pre-Marital sex?
Pre means before
Marital sex means Sex in marriage or vice versa

Now to addressing your idiotic state of mind,
Are you trying to tell me that you cannot comprehend the fact that when you engage a prostitute in sex, it actually means having sex before marriage and Gods ideal thing is Sex is best enjoyed in the Union of a man and woman in marriage?

another good scripture.
trinigirl,honestly I'm not judging you,I only want you to see what the Bible says about it.
If you are in a sexual relationship with a man that intends to marry you,go ahead and get married.
another good scripture.

1Cr 7:34   There is a difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world--how she may please her husband.
1Cr 7:35   And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction.
1Cr 7:36   But if any man thinks he is behaving improperly toward his virgin, if she is past the flower of youth, and thus it must be, let him do what he wishes. He does not sin; let them marry.

@Trini-girl

Goodguy,

What you call "simple english" has also changed the definition of marriage to include homsexuals and lesbians.

So if we conform to "simple english" definitions that we manipulate to suit our needs and not the true real root meaning of words, then you're inferrig that homosexual marriage is acceptable. Yes?


While your are tracking down the root for Fornication, try tracking down the root word of religion which is from the latin verb ligo, comes religo, to tie or bind over again, to make more fast - from religo, comes the substantive religo, which, with the addition of n makes the English substantive religion. . I would like to see you cleverly apply your theory of the word fornication to the word religion

@Reverand

Paul explains the significance of sexual immorality by writing, "Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, 'The two will become one flesh.'" (1 Corinthians 6:15). In quoting Genesis 2:24, many believe Paul is referring to sexual intercourse with a prostitute as marriage. If this view of Paul's teaching is correct, premarital sex is philosophically impossible because sexual intercourse is one form of marriage therefore the technical phrasing is simply "marital sex".


I forget how many wives Solomon had but when the bible speaks of his wives, the bible is not saying that Solomon actually had ceremony to marriages to all of those women, it just means Solomon was sleeping with all of them.



@Topic


If[b] fornication [/b]is when a man or woman is having premarital sex, what does it mean then when two people get married, stay married for a year then divorce? Both of those people remarry other people stay marry for two years then divorce. Again, they remarry other people then divorce. Now they each have slept with at least three different people. If they keep on repeating this pattern of marriage and then divorce, how is that any different from fornication? How can they not be accused of the sin fornication, just because they were married when they had sex? I see a lot of people talking this mess about it is better to marry for sex, than to not marry and fornicate. That has to be the silliest thing I ever heard. People in the church run a muck trying to get a wife who is in their church just so they can screw, that to me is the sorriest thing ever.

I remember my grandfather being disappointed with me for a long time because I had a child out of wedlock. I told him "well granddaddy I am just as disappointed with you for having six children with the woman you were married to because now look what happen, you guys are divorced and you are married to another woman, nothing is promised grandaddy.".

He just didn't get what I was saying.

My point is, not getting married does not promise anything that you are promised if you do get married, faithful sex to one person in and out of marriage and a faithful marital sex takes two people who really want to be faithful to each other. If one does not want to be faithful, the whole thing will fall apart.

I think you people need to stop trying to make up ways to make the bible suit your need to not feel as though you are not committing a sin. People go about everyday interpreting the bible the way that they want to interpret, just to suit them and make them feel like a better person who has less sins.


Do like the animals do, have sex because it is natural. If you don't have a man and you are attracted to a man who is not married, and you two as adults want to have sex, why not have sex as long as you protect your self?

It is natural to have sex.


The bible is screwing with yawls heads. The bible is trying to take away your human instinct. The bible is man manipulated, and man created to control human thoughts. If the bible never said anything about fornication or what fornication means, what would you guys be thinking then?

I think you should all try thinking for your self, out side of the bible. It is quite refreshing to truly have a free mind.


Sex is good, damn good and I won't be waiting until I get married to have it.

Isn't it interesting how one can manipulate the bible to make it accept anything or to make in not accept certain things ? Even homosexuals manipulate the bible to make it look like homosexuality is acceptable.

If the bible was so trust worthy, it would not be able to be manipulated as much as it is.

babyosisi:

the operating words there are wife and husband not engaged or constant partner intending to marry you.

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them(especially the likes of reverend)

I really don't get the point you're trying to make here , my contention is not with marriage.  It is the definition of fornication and how it relates or does not relate  to pre marital sex,

the rev has his issues, but he is still loved by God ,

goodguy:


Just incase you didn't know, the word, "ramble" was derived from the greek word, "rambo", which means, "to speak the truth". Don't mind/believe those 'biased' lexicographers that have manipulated the whole thing to suit their needs. What you think is the meaning of the word is not the true real root meaning at all.

I never knew that all the while thanks for the knowledge shared.

Many thanks babyosisi 4 ur post. Just Got me recovered from the daze arising from the topic. E tu trini?
These are indeed strange times.

@ trinigirl,I'll hate to believe that you do not get the scriptural references connecting fornication and marriage.
Well to break it down,outside of marriage,any sexual relationship is  fornication,it is sin ,so the Bible advises you to marry.
The intention to marry is not marriage.

Sista:


Do like the animals do, have sex because it is natural. If you don't have a man and you are attracted to a man who is not married, and you two as adults want to have sex, why not have sex as long as you protect your self?

It is natural to have sex.

No wonder certain human beings cannot reason like a human being, keep behaving like animals, who is expected to be the higher animal here?
Very crazy world we have to see human beings degrade themselves as equals to animals

@Babiosisi


These scriptures can be interpreted many ways.

1Cr 7:34 There is a difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world--how she may please her husband.

Is the wife a virgin as well, or an ex fornicator? The unmarried woman who cares about the lord is who, the wife? Who is she that is married, the one who cares abut the world, is she the wife?

without taking into consideration the literal meaning of marriage, one could interpet this as, it does not matter what a woman claims to believe, as in God, what matters is her works, that is what she shall be judged by.

1Cr 7:35 And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction.

I don't get it, the only way to serve the lord is by being single?

Is "not that I may put a leash on you but" today's way for saying, I am not trying to get you to believe what I believe, but I just want you to hear both sides so you can make a proper decision towards righteousness?

1Cr 7:36 But if any man thinks he is behaving improperly toward his virgin, if she is past the flower of youth, and thus it must be, let him do what he wishes. He does not sin; let them marry.

Again, is the virgin the unmarried single woman or the wife who was at one time the virgin?

Pass the flower of youth, not a virgin anymore? Let him do what he wishes, screw her and have his way because she is damaged goods?

He does not sin? Because she is the LovePeddler and he is the man? Let them marry, Have sex in other words? I guess she will now be decent and forgiven by god now that a man did her a favor by marrying her, all though in th past she was a fornicator, in other words a LovePeddler.

TV01,

If the girl ends up pregnant and you intend to marry, then by all means marry her! You'll be practically married to her already anyway .!

pataki,

you have done it again , what is this sudden interest u have in my personal life ,

please take your self righteous bull tata and remove the beam from you own eye before u try to even look into mine ,

hypocrisy.

so far, the only indulgent argument here is the one plagiarised by the virgin goodguy. But I doubt he even understands what it means , mr copy and paste.

But thanks for taking the time and effort to google the subject to try and contribute some intelligent matter.

The rest of your are just misquoting scripture, but I don't blame you , deception is a powerful thing.

trini_girl,

One question. Are you in any sexual relationship now? I assume you are not married.

@Mrpataki

No wonder certain human beings cannot reason like a human being, keep behaving like animals, who is expected to be the higher animal here?

Humans are supposed to be the higher animal because they can discriminate and choose who they will sleep with based on many things. Humans can also make a conscious decision to protect their self from unwanted pregnancy and disease. However, many of us humans don't make these conscious decisions and in those cases, would you say humans are behaving like the lower animal or the higher animal?

Very crazy world we have to see human beings degrade themselves as equals to animals

Humans are animals ,like you eluded a minute ago, humans are the higher animals.

However, I see many cases where human animals act worse than animal animals. You don't see animals dropping bombs on animals for religious or economical purposes. You don't see adult animals molesting baby animals just because they are helpless and cant' defend their self. You don't see adult animals exploiting other animals.
You don't see animals enslaving other animals.

I could go on but I hope you some how get the point.

"While your are tracking down the root for Fornication, try tracking down the root word of religion which is from the latin verb ligo, comes religo, to tie or bind over again, to make more fast - from religo, comes the substantive religo, which, with the addition of n makes the English substantive religion. . I would like to see you cleverly apply your theory of the word fornication to the word religion"


Interesting point sista, perhaps in another thread , I already can't keep up with the posts on this topic

trini_girl:


The rest of your are just misquoting scripture, but I don't blame you , deception is a powerful thing.

Miss know it all, am sure most people that have given reaonable and credible meaning to your topic here have spoken under the leading of how the holy spirit has given them the understanding.
To think that head knowledge applies to the understanding Gods word, you are truly been decieved there.
I will let you rest here, for the day.

@Trinygirl

please take your self righteous bull tata and remove the beam from you own eye before u try to even look into mine ,

hypocrisy.

Anyone dealing in religion based, can be said to be a hypocrite and self righteous?


Do you think you were not being self righteous when you said Saddam was going straight to hell?

Do you think you were not being self righteous when you asked me to provide proof of after life, when you did not provide me proof of hell? Who says your belief in hell, is superior to my belief in reincarnation?


Think about that.

@Pataki

What makes you think that you are any more developed or different from any of the other animals on this planet?

Quite an arrogant statement!

Animals are a pretty loyal bunch and do not go around killing each other for the sake of it. They do not destroy the habitat in which they live or pollute the planet! They have no hatred towards other species and live together in harmony in most cases. Animals do not try to brainwash each other with idiotic doctrines or believe in an invisible animal God that lives above the clouds.

Maybe it would be a good thing that certain Humans would degrade themselves as you put it to the 'level of animals'

This World would be a much kinder place

@ Sista,
And you allowed yourself to forget the fact that, you dont see humans spitting their white hatred here and there, which you are well noted for.
Maybe when peeps like you can cut down the white hatred the world would be a better place to live in for once!

@ Rev,
Equating you with an animal is even worse in its totality

TayoD:

trini_girl,

One question. Are you in any sexual relationship now? I assume you are not married.

TAyo

What the hell business is it of yours if I am having sex? Do not provoke me o!  

Are you homosexual? Do you have a small self-servicer? Do you watch porn? No personal questions abi ,

Please, stick to the topic, not the person.

The initial post by tringirl and indeed the title of the post shows someone who has at least a Christian upbringing or leaning and that's why the arguments are scripturally based so sista,your post belongs in a different thread.

Open one about sex with javon,deejay and rayshun,how and where to do it and protection techniques.
For you to badge in and ridicule Christians and Christianity is very pediatric.

and I will not go into scriptural exposition with you,that's not what this thread is about.
Only God can open blind eyes to his ways since it's obvious you are antiChrist and make no secret of it,I guess your mind is made up.
Amuse yourself now if you may.
Personally,I have  proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is God and that Christ is the saviour but I'll save that for the right thread.

@Pataki

Tell that to your mother