my dears, pre-marital sex is fornication.
wether we try to justify it or not doesn't
stop it from being what it is-FORNICATION.

most of us struggle with it and are helpless
when it comes to yeilding to our sexual desires
hence we become regular 'slaves'as it creeps from
just happening once to becoming a lifestyle,a
besetting sin.

God is capable of turning around anyones life no matter
how disgusting it might be.most of the time we feel guilty
and heavy, your body may tell you you are an adult,
it was worth it,and all the other lies it usually does.yet
deep in your heart there is a hole you,you feel like a
prisoner and sometimes dirty.all these is to tell you that
all is not well.however some hearts a so seared with the filth
that we find it hard to believe its wrong,

whatever the case,God can set us free.we only need to tell
him that we are in trouble with this sin or habit, he that
covers his sins shall not prosper but if we confess our sins
God is faithful to forgive, go ahead, ask him for grace
to live above fornication and preserve your body and dignity
for the man who will someday marry,honour and treasure you
without defiling you.

you are blessed!

Hebzi:

my dears, pre-marital sex is fornication.
wether we try to justify it or not doesn't
stop it from being what it is-FORNICATION.

most of us struggle with it and are helpless
when it comes to yeilding to our sexual desires
hence we become regular 'slaves'as it creeps from
just happening once to becoming a lifestyle,a
besetting sin.

God is capable of turning around anyones life no matter
how disgusting it might be.most of the time we feel guilty
and heavy, your body may tell you you are an adult,
it was worth it,and all the other lies it usually does.yet
deep in your heart there is a hole you,you feel like a
prisoner and sometimes dirty.all these is to tell you that
all is not well.however some hearts a so seared with the filth
that we find it hard to believe its wrong,

whatever the case,God can set us free.we only need to tell
him that we are in trouble with this sin or habit, he that
covers his sins shall not prosper but if we confess our sins
God is faithful to forgive, go ahead, ask him for grace
to live above fornication and preserve your body and dignity
for the man who will someday marry,honour and treasure you
without defiling you.

you are blessed!

In your eagerness to submit this borderline self righteous post intimating condescension, I assume you did not read my previous submissions qualifying how pre-marital sex in some instances is in fact fornication.

However, this repetitive bore of an opinion no longer surprises me.

Since we are talking about what Paul said,

PAUL’S LETTER TO THE CORINTHIANS
1 Corinthians 7; 1 - 38
1 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me:
It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband…
8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; 9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion….
25 Now concerning virgins: I have no commandment from the Lord; yet I give judgment as one whom the Lord in His mercy has made trustworthy. 26 I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress—that it is good for a man to remain as he is…
36 But if any man thinks he is behaving improperly toward his virgin, if she is past the flower of youth, and thus it must be, let him do what he wishes. He does not sin; let them marry. 37 Nevertheless he who stands steadfast in his heart, having no necessity, but has power over his own will, and has so determined in his heart that he will keep his virgin,[b] does well. 38 So then he who gives her[c] in marriage does well, but he who does not give her in marriage does better

Wat se jy?

@ Trini_girl

I am very tripped that a female can boldly hold herself in a religious argument without flinching.

You really surprise me and I am very proud of you;

I started reading this thread yesterday from the first page to the eleventh; and I am very impressed with Trini_girl not withstanding some abrasive tendencies.

She brough a point and nobody could nullify it except counter it with arguments that are not valid.

Truth be told, I am forced to reconsider what we term sin; do we just sholve what we are told without questioning it even if not in public but in our private lives;

She has raised a valid point; are we going to sit back and consider or just blindly attack it.

Whether she is right or wrong is not my concern at this moment but that she is able to hold herself and bring out an intelligent point worth considering.

Thanx Trini_girl for given me something to think of;

Dipo Tepede
www.dipotepede.com

yeye girls dey always find ways to dey yansh anyhow
dis one say no be fornication to dey yansh about when you never marry
na so toto scratch you reach? you come dey find approval for here
yeye

Is this conversation still going on?, Gosh!, such stupidity, i never thought I'd see the day "Fornication" will be given spiritual credence. Why are you all wasting your time trying to prove to her that Fornication is a sin, last i checked, we are all on our own on judgment day. She has her mind made up, and frankly i have to admire her quest for the truth(the term of which is rather subjective). No matter what you say, SHE IS GOING TO FIND A WAY TO COUNTER THAT ARGUMENT. She is looking for some kind of moral or spiritual justification for what she might be thinking, doing or feeling and you guys are giving her the attention she so desires. "My friend", go on with ur bad self jo, and as my pastor will say, KEEP ON LIVING!!!(living a lie dat is). Complete nonsense!!!

wait first, why didnt anyone comment on what i said una dey smoke shit, lol

dipotepede:

@ Trini_girl

I am very tripped that a female can boldly hold herself in a religious argument without flinching.

You really surprise me and I am very proud of you;

I started reading this thread yesterday from the first page to the eleventh; and I am very impressed with Trini_girl not withstanding some abrasive tendencies.

She brough a point and nobody could nullify it except counter it with arguments that are not valid.

I agree. Kinda pathetic as 90% of the comments to her stance so far have been pure garbage.

@ Dipotepede,

What exactly is the point she raised that has not been nullified here?


@ trini_girl: Isn't it funny how you agree with the dictionary definitions of words like "LovePeddler" and "homosexuality", but strongly disagree with the definition of "fornication" offered by the same dictionary? Are you aware that the word "LovePeddler" has many derivatives borrowed into English, some of which are "cherish" and "charity"?

If PRE[/b]marital sex is not fornication, what is it then? I asked you this same question on page 1 of this thread, but you refused to answer. At least, we all know and agree that "[b]POST[/b]marital" sex is Adultery.

Also, it is very important to know that the word "Fornication" as used in different areas in the Bible, has only [b]ONE direct meaning, which can then have "sub-meanings"; and that is, "Any sexual act outside monogamous marriage". Simple! This can then include pre[/b]marital, incest, bestiality, homosexuality, and what have you. And of course, I do not rule out the fact that it is used [b]figuratively to represent idolatry.

If you still have your doubts, perhaps, you should start by telling us your own definition of marriage.

One question though, do you agree with Grouppoint?

In your analysis Trini_girl u wrote: 'My point is, if you are committed to be married to someone, then having sex with that person does not mean you are a fornicator.'

I think the only way to define this commitment is for the man and the woman to sign the dotted lines and hav a certificate to show for their seriousness.

Anything outside this remains a child's play, fun, , that is all there is to it.

Many girls are raising _bastards becos they believed in the fantasies outside marriage commitment.

This is not to say that there are no sincere guys (and girls), there are still many of them, but certain principles cannot be compromised. If there is a compromise, then it is at the individual's own risk.

God wants you 100% protected frm all heartbreaks, He wants to preserve the dignity of your person before and after marriage, hence His Law.

dipotepede:

@ Trini_girl

I am very tripped that a female can boldly hold herself in a religious argument without flinching.

You really surprise me and I am very proud of you;

I started reading this thread yesterday from the first page to the eleventh; and I am very impressed with Trini_girl not withstanding some abrasive tendencies.

She brough a point and nobody could nullify it except counter it with arguments that are not valid.

Truth be told, I am forced to reconsider what we term sin; do we just sholve what we are told without questioning it even if not in public but in our private lives;

She has raised a valid point; are we going to sit back and consider or just blindly attack it.

Whether she is right or wrong is not my concern at this moment but that she is able to hold herself and bring out an intelligent point worth considering.

Thanx Trini_girl for given me something to think of;

Dipo Tepede
www.dipotepede.com

Thank YOU Dipo and you are most welcome.

breez:

In your analysis Trini_girl u wrote: 'My point is, if you are committed to be married to someone, then having sex with that person does not mean you are a fornicator.'

I think the only way to define this commitment is for the man and the woman to sign the dotted lines and hav a certificate to show for their seriousness.

Anything outside this remains a child's play, fun, , that is all there is to it.

Many girls are raising _bastards because they believed in the fantasies outside marriage commitment.

This is not to say that there are no sincere guys (and girls), there are still many of them, but certain principles cannot be compromised. If there is a compromise, then it is at the individual's own risk.

God wants you 100% protected frm all heartbreaks, He wants to preserve the dignity of your person before and after marriage, hence His Law.

I disagree. I think that "signing on the dotted line" is a public indication in the sight of God that you have chosen to spend the rest of your lives together. But committment was decided long before that point. You choose to commit, and as a result of that choice you marry.

I don't believe in this worldly philosphy of "bastards" just because a child is born out of "wedlock". Is that scriptural? Then I guess we are all "bastards" that were adopted by Christ, since we are not Jews.

To say that single parenting is solely based on women who chose to have their child out of marriage is a bit closed minded. Many factors may contribute to it.

I respect your opinion, but I don't believe a man or woman is any less "dignified" if they have sex with someone they love and have been committed to over a long period of time.

A friend of mine told me that in the new testament the bride in those days were virgins. How realistic is it to assume this was true for all women who were married back then, and what if a woman is raped? Is she now unworthy of marriage? Anyway, that's straying, but my original point still stands.

I'm waiting for someone to start a post on the definition of marriage. I don't have the time to post too much these days unfortunately.

If you feel you've committed to them over a long period of time, why not just get married then?. . .The answer is because you know that there's a chance you won't want to be with him/her in the future. Stop deceiving yourself, when you get married, that is when the commitment has been made official not only to both parties but every individual in the society. Marriage is more than signing documents, it's two individuals telling the society at large that they're ready to become one till death do them part. If signing on the dotted line is the way they show the commitment out West, then that is it. If wine carrying is the way they do it(like they do where I come from), then that is marriage. Marriage as a ceremony or action goes a step further than 2 individuals being committed, it officially tells the whole world that you're committed for life.

If a person gets married there is still a chance they won't be together in the future. Are you saying that marriage is some sort of ball and chain that should be used to feel secure about a relationship?

trini_girl:

If a person gets married there is still a chance they won't be together in the future. Are you saying that marriage is some sort of ball and chain that should be used to feel secure about a relationship?

Biblically, when you're married, there should be NO chance that you won't be together in the future. Marriage is more than a security feature, it makes both parties committed to the relationship till death do them part.

The argument about 2 individuals being committed as equivalent to marriage does not fly. Society does not accept it as a signal of commitment and neither does the BIBLE. When you do what the BIBLE recognizes as the symbol of commitment (getting married), then you can claim to be committed to each other as Christians (which is what I assume we are here).

Like Jesus rightly stated:

Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh.What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so, And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery (Mt. 19:4-9).

They shall be ONE, you cannot separate them, with marriage you are bound for life. It is this relationship that God recognizes, any commitment you make between yourselves is just that, between the two of you. This is the importance of marriage, it is much more than a trivial ceremony like some people here will want us to believe.

Till you do the above which is what we call MARRIAGE, whatever you do is not commitment. Telling yourselves you're committed is not enough, you have to symbolize that commitment to the world. Marriage is the institution which is biblically approved as a symbol of commitment. Until you're married, you're not committed. . .Rough question, how can you say a commitment is legitimate when there is nothing binding you to the commitment? Are we deceiving ourselves here?. . .Marriage is the institution that binds you the commitment you have made, it is more than a trivial ceremony. It signifies your commitment to each other and binds you through legal/spiritual means.

Thank you for reading!

Common law Donz, it sees committment when two people live together as binding.  Society DOES accept it. And even Biblically God caters for separation, so let's be realistic here. A man and woman living together for an extended period of time in a common law relationship are married in the eyes of the common law.  In the eyes of God, no. But we're not talking about marriage here, we're talking about sex!  

In any event, which dotted line did Adam and Eve sign.  Were they not married? All it took was God's vows. Hmmm.
So maybe common law IS in fact marriage, and all else is CUSTOM.  

Nah just kidding.  But you see my point I hope.  A man and woman committed to each other and living together IS binding.  

Now, for the first time, let me divulge a little personal info . I do not live with a man in a common law relationship. ok?  

trini_girl:

Common law Donz, it sees committment when two people live together as binding. Society DOES accept it. And even Biblically God caters for separation, so let's be realistic here. A man and woman living together for an extended period of time in a common law relationship are married in the eyes of the common law. In the eyes of God, no. But we're not talking about marriage here, we're talking about sex!

In any event, which dotted line did Adam and Eve sign. Were they not married? All it took was God's vows. Hmmm.
So maybe common law IS in fact marriage, and all else is CUSTOM.

Nah just kidding. But you see my point I hope. A man and woman committed to each other and living together IS binding.

Now, for the first time, let me divulge a little personal info . I do not live with a man in a common law relationship. ok?

Like I said, you don't have to sign the dotted line, you do what is the bible says, get married. In my native tradition, there is no dotted line signing. They do a wine-carrying ceremony, that is enough to signify marriage.

Adam and Eve's union was recognized and sanctioned by God Himself so it does count as marriage.

Again your argument using common law does not work, common law marriage is infact legally binding. There are different forms of marriage, the essential part is that you signify to the society that you have found your partner for LIFE and there are mechanisms involved to ensure that the commitment isn't ARBITRARY. Ordinary commitment between a man and woman outside of an institution is arbitrary and not marriage.

Again, you argument using common law fails because common law marriage is more than a casual agreement, it is legally binding.

An excerpt from Wikipedia:

Common-law marriage (or common law marriage), sometimes called informal marriage or marriage by habit and repute is, historically, a form of interpersonal status in which a man and a woman are legally married. The term is often mistakenly understood to indicate an interpersonal relationship that is not recognized in law. In fact, a common law marriage is just as legally binding as a statutory or ceremonial marriage in most jurisdictions — it is just formed differently.

Again, they're trying to separate your trivial commitment from common law marriage. Marriage is more than a ceremony, it is a symbol of commitment and a tool for ensuring that the commitment is adhered to. Commitment among two individuals is arbitrary and should never be likened to any type of marriage. Here is a diction of common law marriage:


Cohabitation alone does not amount to common law marriage; the couple in question must hold themselves out to the world to be husband and wife.

This falls in line with my argument that marriage involves declaring to the society at large that you're committed to each other for LIFE. This is what marriage is about and from my BIBLE, any sex out of marriage is wrong.

Whether premarital sex means fornication or not, it is wrong as a Christian at least.

Wha? _{**confused expression**}

Hear what, it's 11:30pm here. I'm too tired to even read this properly right now but from what I get so far it sounds like contradicting kaka. I'll hit u up in the morning when I'm coherent again.

Good night.

_{**yawns and leaves thread**}

[color=#000099][/color]
During my browsing through this beautiful site , icame across this topic and my comment goes thus;:

i've realised one thing about Nigerian women annd men, the idea of saying the truth is very difficult and when there is someone that is brave enough to say the truth there is this tendency to shout them down
case1:  during my secondary school days i and a lady normaly goes for house to house fellowship , unfortunately or otherwise she got pregnant along the way .period case closed
case2 :
An uncle of mine wo is a pastor got married and gave birth to his first so about seven months after.
case 3
A close friend of mine lost his girlfriend of ten years to a smart guy that does not believe everything the pastor tells him.

what  i am saying is this we are human with unlimited capacity for thinking and adancement ,the issue of sex or fornication is as old as time itself .if you like ,love or need someone sleep with him or her. but remember AIDS is real . and you only have one life to live make your mistake(s) live with them but remember we are all human. "him without sin let him/he cast the first stone".

MY God MY God pls forgive us

i cant believe the trinidad girl started this thread just because she wants to legitimize her having sex with her fiancee.

The answer lies in your consciense while doing it. if you feel good then its up to you but if you somehow think something is wrong, then you are damn right something is surely wrong.

Trinigirl,

I just went thru your comments and various replies on the fornication/premarital sex issue, well i think your starting point in trying to draw a distinction between the two by saying that biblical fornication is not the same as premarital sex, and that the latter is okay is needless.

The biblical standards for chastity in cases of 'biblical fornication' (in the context you chose) and premarital sex (even where with a committed partner) remain the same, i.e. no sex before marriage.

However from your various replies, and this is why i say your starting point was needless, it does seem that your basis for assessing the issue is your personal philosophy, which at the end of the day is what it is 'personal'.

trinigirl
give your life to Jesus and  flee every appearance of evil.
please do let your opinion be to yourself and don't mislead people because the effect is great,God will require the blood of all the people you mislead from your hands,the bible says it is beta that you ,have rope of tins round your neck and throw yourself in the water than to mislead people,please kindly retract your statement before it goes far.besides,what makes you think that even after having enuf time ofsex with a so called fiancee, you guys wont someday do away with each other,and what happens?both of you do ahead and look for another partner and everything continues like that,i dont blame you sha because the devil also knows the scriptures,stop turning the scriptures upside down there is a punishment for that, am a student of the scriptures and i know the effect of all this you are doing so repent.
cosby

solybis:

Trinigirl,

I just went through your comments and various replies on the fornication/premarital sex issue, well i think your starting point in trying to draw a distinction between the two by saying that biblical fornication is not the same as premarital sex, and that the latter is okay is needless.

The biblical standards for chastity in cases of 'biblical fornication' (in the context you chose) and premarital sex (even where with a committed partner) remain the same, i.e. no sex before marriage.

However from your various replies, and this is why i say your starting point was needless, it does seem that your basis for assessing the issue is your personal philosophy, which at the end of the day is what it is 'personal'.

Ah!! finally. Say no more thank you Solybis. This is someone's personal philosophy and that's how it should be seen, no point trying to argue. She is entitled to her opinion. However i will say Trini Girl be very careful of the kind of burden you build for yourself, because after all is said and done, you will carry that cross. Godbless

@ trini_girl,
On a final note on this topic, I pray that another mans blood will not required from your hands with this erroneous belief of yours that you are struggling to justify here.

Leading those who are weak in their faith to error

Trini Trini_girl?? Where are you? Long time no see/hear/speak! Is all well

TV01:

Trini Trini_girl?? Where are you? Long time no see/hear/speak! Is all well

Aha! so you missed me! My plan for u has worked.

How now. I've been extremely busy with work. Haven't had time to keep up with what's happening here. Maybe in a couple more days when this project is almost complete.

solybis:

Trinigirl,

I just went through your comments and various replies on the fornication/premarital sex issue, well i think your starting point in trying to draw a distinction between the two by saying that biblical fornication is not the same as premarital sex, and that the latter is okay is needless.

WRONG! If you had bothered to read further you would have seen where I distinguished between pre and post marital sex as fornication and I agreed that pre marital sex in some instance is in fact fornication if it is ILLICIT sex.  I further went on to define what illicit sex is according to the Strong's Bible concordance.

solybis:

The biblical standards for chastity in cases of 'biblical fornication' (in the context you chose) and premarital sex (even where with a committed partner) remain the same, i.e. no sex before marriage.

Can you back this up with relevant scripture please.

solybis:

However from your various replies, and this is why i say your starting point was needless, it does seem that your basis for assessing the issue is your personal philosophy, which at the end of the day is what it is 'personal'. 

Thank you for stating the obvious

since it is obvious, why open pandoras boxx?? searching for justification on what 'pricks' ur mind??
stick with ur personal philosopy, its urs!!!

May i state Vividly at this juncture that i dont c any biggie in it!!



, end of thread!!!

Please guys look at the poll results and give up this endless debate it says it all

actually to be really honest its depends on ur physical and emotional needs its your choice i mean why listen to sum crap other pppl have to say just be urself