Hi Sis' TG,

Hope this finds you well.

trini_girl:

hmmm  I'm not surprised ,  everyone else has digressed and speculated about my lifestyle so why not you 

Nothing to do with your life style my sister, just questioning your study/information gathering methods  . But enough coarse jesting. Such (along with lewd speaking, and foul language) is unbecoming of saints. I both repent and apologise.

trini_girl:

How about you show new covenant evidence to back up that opinion first.

How can I evidence something that I claim is not there? Surely the onus is on you to show me it is?

trini_girl:

Please clarify.  If you think that, you have not been reading my posts.

Yes I have;

trini_girl:

There is no evidence that pre-marital sex with one partner, by consenting adults, in a committed monogamous relationship, over an extended period of time, is fornication.  It is not illicit, it is not illegal, it is not immoral. IT IS NOT FORNICATION and IT IS NOT A SIN

You said that! Clearly stating one partner, consent and monogamy as the imperatives. Sounds like a gay-homosexual charter to me. It certainly ain't Bible girl.

trini_girl:

Who do you think you're bossing around.  Try another one.  

To beseech,is not to boss my sister, it's to beg. But then it quite clear that words aren't your strong point.

All for Him.

God bless

@trini_woman

If pre-marital sex wasn't immoral, why would Paul bother with this:

1 Corinthians 7:1-2 when Paul writes "it is good for a man not to touch a woman. But because of immoralities (porneias), let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband."

Eurphoria:

trini can i ask if all you are saying are based on some religious belief?

I beg O, help me ask am!

That right there is beyond sarcasm. I'm cracking up! And I thought I was funny ! lol

why you cracking up?

Eurphoria:

why you cracking up?

Sister Euphoria, if you are as pretty as you are funny, show me the queue, I'm joining it!

Donzman:

@trini_girl

Now as for sex. God has made us male and female. We complete each other by being in union with each other. This was the case with Adam and Eve.

I am complete in Christ.  Marriage is for another purpose

Donzman, you sound confused.  No one is disagreeing that God ordained man to be with woman, and that sex is a great part of that union.

However, your logic is flawed.

===============================================
OFFTOPIC:Tell me, why does a man have to join a monastary, swear himself to poverty in the name of "God"

Did Paul join a "monastary"? Did he not simply say that he wishes that all men were like him, but if they can't take a wife so they won't fornicate?
===============================================

Anyway, what you're trying to show me, I assume, is that there is a pre-destinated one man for one woman in marriage.   I disagree.  There is no pre-destined mate for every man and woman on earth.

Sometimes, we get into relationships thinking this is the person I would like to spend the rest of my life with.  However, it takes time to know the individual.  It's not like the old testament where there were arranged marriages.  Because of that change, the reality is that some relationships don't work.  In my opinion, it's better for that relationship to end and for you to realize this person is not for you, rather than marry the person and have no way out.  Sex is such a small part of a relationship.

Now if somewhere along the line when things are all hunky dory, maybe a year or two or whatever into the relationship, both parties[b] choose[/b] to "express" their love for each other physically.  I don't see a problem with that as sinful.

I feel sorry for you, I really don't understand how you can see so much evidence of truth in front of you and not even consider the possibility that you might be wrong  [quote][/quote]

Eurphoria:

trini can i ask if all you are saying are based on some religious belief?

What does religion have to do with christianity?
How does religous belief apply to this?

donzman

I agree that people like you should stay away from sex. Period. 

Actually, get saved first and stop following dead religion. The perhaps the Word would become life to you, and stop being dead letter so you won't keep misquoting scripture.

Dunno why but cut and paste posts really annoy me. Unless it's scripture to back up an opinion.

People who cut and paste paragraphs of somebody else's ideas are just so pathetic 

trini_girl:

Did Paul join a "monastary"? Did he not simply say that he wishes that all men were like him, but if they can't take a wife so they won't fornicate?

Sister trini-girl, your arguments are consistently proving contradictory, not very well thought out and worst of all scripturally flawed. Why would Paul counsel wives in order to prevent fornication, or at least fail to mention (your supposed alternative), consenting male-female, adult monogamous relationships?

Errrrrr, by the way, you're dumped. I've fallen for sister Euphoria ! It doesn't just rain, it pours hey!
But look on the good side, you can just go find yourself another consenting, male-female, adult, monogamous relationship. No sin, no repentance!

I haven't had this much fun on Nairaland for ages (sure beats bullying TayoD ).

Lord have mercy

its a question why are you defensive str8 away? is christainity not a religion?

Are you being daft on purpose or are you naturally daft?. . . I have some Trinis in my school and they're smart individuals so I can't say it's a Trini thing.

Did Paul join a "monastary"? Did he not simply say that he wishes that all men were like him, but if they can't take a wife so they won't fornicate?

W

I don't get the point, elaborate please!

Sometimes, we get into relationships thinking this is the person I would like to spend the rest of my life with. However, it takes time to know the individual. It's not like the old testament where there were arranged marriages. Because of that change, the reality is that some relationships don't work. In my opinion, it's better for that relationship to end and for you to realize this person is not for you, rather than marry the person and have no way out. Sex is such a small part of a relationship.

Not according to the Bible which teaches us these:

Genesis 2:24 says that a man shall be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

There is a unity implied in the sexual act which is more than just metaphorical.

1 Corinthians 6:15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! (16) Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.

We puzzle over the mystery this verse hides, because it is obvious that other sins can grossly affect the body. Elsewhere the writer himself acknowledges that the profound way sex affects the body – making two people one flesh – is a mystery.

Ephesians 5: 31 “ . . . and the two will become one flesh.” (32) This is a profound mystery. . .

Again I'm not here to make conclusions for you but from what I'm reading, Sex is more than something physical, it is spiritual. This coming together of man/woman to become one is the mystery of marriage and having pre-marital sex defeats this purpose. This departure from the ideal and the spiritual implications of sex makes it immoral.

Sex is not a small part of the relationship, it is infact the part that consummates a marriage.

TV,

You're funny.  I can't believe you're trying to insult me (you'll deny it I'm sure).

You usually have a list of scripture to argue your point.  Now it's just cheap shots.

My goodness.  

I expected more of you out of all the people on this post.

Anyway, Im not surprised, I must be on to something if someone like you can't come up with a reasonable argument.

Yayyy!!  

More votes in my favour please!!  

trini_girl:

You're funny. I can't believe you're trying to insult me (you'll deny it I'm sure).

Sure will, 'cos I ain't. I will admit to having a good laugh at you expense though. Nothing personal, I quite like you and I'm sure you'll eventually see the error of your thinking (Notice I didn't say ways girl ).

Truth be told, your position became untenable about 8 pages back, I'm just enjoying the reparte.

Sorry for the impromptu dumping, but you know blokes nowadays, so fickle. Hey I see no ring on this here hand! Anyway, good thing you can test 'em first using the PMSPCCM model .

Now, where's Sister Euphoria?

God bless

TV01:

Sister trini-girl, your arguments are consistently proving contradictory, not very well thought out and worst of all scripturally flawed. Why would Paul counsel wives in order to prevent fornication, or at least fail to mention (your supposed alternative), consenting male-female, adult monogamous relationships?

Errrrrr, by the way, you're dumped. I've fallen for sister Euphoria ! It doesn't just rain, it pours hey!
But look on the good side, you can just go find yourself another consenting, male-female, adult, monogamous relationship. No sin, no repentance!

I haven't had this much fun on Nairaland for ages (sure beats bullying TayoD ).

Lord have mercy

I always thought you were secretly in love with me, ever since you told me you were stalking me on Nairaland, even though I never even knew u existed till a few days ago. But you know what, you will have to take a number, cuz it aint nothing new to me on Nairaland.

In any event, I'm sure you're just using poor Euphoria to try and make me jealous.  

Either that, or she must give you the impression that she is the docile female type you seem to be attracted to.

Euphoria, a word of advice, don't be a strong independent woman, agree with everything he says, don't have your own opinions, otherwise he will dump you for some other submissive woman he's stalking.

As if I would even be interested in a chauvanist like you anyway.  

Donzman:

Are you being daft on purpose or are you naturally daft?. . . I have some Trinis in my school and they're smart individuals so I can't say it's a Trini thing.
W

I don't get the point, elaborate please!

Not according to the Bible which teaches us these:

Genesis 2:24 says that a man shall be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

There is a unity implied in the sexual act which is more than just metaphorical.

1 Corinthians 6:15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! (16) Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.

We puzzle over the mystery this verse hides, because it is obvious that other sins can grossly affect the body. Elsewhere the writer himself acknowledges that the profound way sex affects the body – making two people one flesh – is a mystery.

Ephesians 5: 31 “ . . . and the two will become one flesh.” (32) This is a profound mystery. . .

Again I'm not here to make conclusions for you but from what I'm reading, Sex is more than something physical, it is spiritual. This coming together of man/woman to become one is the mystery of marriage and having pre-marital sex defeats this purpose. This departure from the ideal and the spiritual implications of sex makes it immoral.

Sex is not a small part of the relationship, it is infact the part that consummates a marriage.

Donzman you're an idiot, and you're ignoranace knows no bounds.

Keep misquoting scripture all you like but please, stay away from sex.

pls leave me out your lovers spat!!!

i only asked a question on the thread and it feels more and more like i interrupted a lovemaking session----pls proceed . AS YOU WERE------

TV
its been short and sweet meeting you  lol later

Euphoria,

Im not defensive, just don't see the relevance of religion to truth

trini_girl:

Euphoria,

I'm not defensive, just don't see the relevance of religion to truth

No Euphoria stayyy, stay and advise me about this man TV. This Nairaland stalker of mine.
I actually liked him too but some time aback he said something in a post that put me off.
Now he's here trying to annoy me again.

He didn't know I dumped HIM since long time

Keep misquoting scripture all you like but please, stay away from sex.

There's no misquoting there, you just fail to appreciate what the passage is trying to tell you.

Apart from my beliefs which has been shaped by Christianity, you can do whatever you want, you can have sex with man, woman, monkey, snake or even worm and Donzman won't bother. As long as you introduce Christianity into it and try to imply that somehow, the bible permits pre-marital sex then I'll object since it is blasphemy of degree one. Back in the day, they would have poured ice water on your or something.

Watever when you two are done , pls wipe the sheets thanks nite love birds






p.s
this girl aint no pawn

Donzman,

Please give it a rest. Chill out, go to the grocery or something, and while you're there, trying picking up a clue in Isle 5.

Eurphoria:

Watever when you two are done , please wipe the sheets thanks night love birds






p.s
this girl aint no pawn

Euphoria!!

Take that back right now! Right right now

trini_girl:

Donzman,

Please give it a rest. Chill out, go to the grocery or something, and while you're there, trying picking up a clue in Isle 5.

I'll get a clue from aisle 5 but I don't know if I can get one from Isle 5 seeing how they spell correctly where I'm headed. 

I don't fault you though, I basically stepped in to end this debate since it was leading nowhere. That is what I do best, offer a final and standing opinion which can't be challenged. Whether pre-marital sex is fornication or not, the bible tells us it's wrong so whatever point you're trying to make is moot, that's Donzman's stand!. . . Better stand on Donzman's ground, all other ground is sinking sand.

Eurphoria:

its a question why are you defensive str8 away? is christainity not a religion?

sorry , didn't answer your question. No, christianity is not a religion.

Christianity is a practice; religion is an institution.

trini_girl:

sorry , didn't answer your question. No, christianity is not a religion.

Christianity is a practice; religion is an institution.

Wow Trinigirl, u seem to know a lot about christainity and what not, its amazing that you actually think that God approves of pre-marital sex. Ok, one question. WWJD?

Dear Trini girl,
How wrong you are. The verb korinthiazomai was an onomotopeia use, since Corrint of the first century was synonimous to fast, urbane and commercial life, many people flocked Corrinth for various reasons and like big commercial cities today prostitution thrived. The Greek word translated in the Bible as fornication in 1 Cor. 6 is Porniea. Other words with shades of meaning in immorality that were used to denote uncleanness is akartessia. The world has become difficult in clear definitions since value system has been eroded, there is no direct good or bad, rather rationalizations. The word adultery is no more allowed, people have an affair, people no longer commit fornication, they make love. As long as we deviate from God's standard of morality we shall continue to wallow like Trini girl, if the discussion is on God's view of matters, then lets call a spade a spade not shovel, premarital sex is wrong and it is described in God's holy book as FORNICATION. My dear Trini girl, you may actually be a weapon of the Devil whom the Bible said in 2 Cor that he transforms himself into an angel of light. Please do no let the deceiver continue to use you. End of discussion.

I am tempted to agree with Trini-girl on this matter, that pre-marital sex is not always fornication.
Searching your bible, you would find several instances of sex without marriage. Starting from Adam and Eve.

However, if sin means; the disobedience to the word of God ( I assume this topic falls within the confines of Christian religion), then all we need do is identify anywhere in the word of God that pre-marital sex is frowned upon, then we can arrive at a useful conclusion.

1 Cor 7: 2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
This suggests that those who arent married are fornicating.

But, what then is a real marriage?
Is it the ceremony we practise, whereby we spend money wich we dont have, or is it the act of committing yourself to one partner for the rst of your life?

I think Trini-girl is married to one partner. It may not be the mordern method of marriage, but she may well be far more committed than many couples who have found it convenient to have a ceremony.

@ Grouppoint
Are you actually suggesting that as long as we confess our commitment to each other then we can have sex? even when nobody recognises us as married?
then what did paul mean here?
1Cor 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband
1 Cor7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn

In other words, Mr.X can have sex with his girlfriend of 3 years and then when he emigrates to the UK and she cant get a visa for 2 years later, get a new girlfriend and be commited to her allover again.
rubbish.

its not the ceremony. its the public taking of vows before higher authorities (God, the courts, your parents).

Sin as defined by the bible as"anything done delibrately or unitentianally" agaist the will of GOD, Jesus was crystal clear about Fornication- it is not acceptable before God,No matter the definations or opinoin of individuals ,those who engage i it and dies therein without repentant have no part in the kindom of God!

also any form of sexual gratification indulged in except with a partner iwht whom a formal marriage as been done is treated as fornicaqtion by biblical standard- even if it is derived by simply looking not to talk of handling ,

lafile:

@ Grouppoint
its not the ceremony. its the public taking of vows before higher authorities (God, the courts, your parents).

If you are stating this within biblical context, then you need to show us where the bible states that Marriage must be performed before courts and Parents.

If however, you are referring to marriage in a civil society, then you have to accept that pre-marital sex, Homosexuality are not unlawful.

I believe that if two people are living together and committed, then they are joined together. If they be Christians, then they should invite God into their union. That is marriage. You don’t need Parents or Court.

All you need is God as the 3rd person in your union to be considered a wife or husband.

Grouppoint:

If you are stating this within biblical context, then you need to show us where the bible states that Marriage must be performed before courts and Parents.

If however, you are referring to marriage in a civil society, then you have to accept that pre-marital sex, Homosexuality are not unlawful.

I believe that if two people are living together and committed, then they are joined together. If they be Christians, then they should invite God into their union. That is marriage. You don’t need Parents or Court.

All you need is God as the 3rd person in your union to be considered a wife or husband.

While we make proviso for parents, church and society, stripped bare, I think this is pretty spot on. Isaac effectively married Rebeccah when the relationship was consumated. Even now a civil marriage can be annulled on the basis of non-consumation.

Amongst other things, people who take the stance that pre-marital sex is not immoral need to understand that in a very real spiritual sense,  you cannot have pre-marital sex, as the very act signifies marriage and the ongoing consumation of that holy estate. It's why Paul said having sex with a harlot joins you with her".

And two more things.
Firstly, still on a spiritual note. Pray tell are you married to Christ? Part of the Bride of the Lamb? Or are you just in a male-female, adult, consensual, monogamous relationship with Him? Please think about that!

And on a more physical note, this position is a "cheats charter". Any predatory person (male or female), could simply seduce anyone into a " male-female, adult, consensual, monogamous relationship (a sorry excuse for a covenant, nowhere attested to in scripture or civilisation, but a glaring and damning indicator of the moral decline and wooly thinking in todays society _{preach it!)}, and then after a short interval call the whole thing off.

I ask anyone who holds to such a position as scripturally mandated to prayerfuly consider the possibilities and the dangers.

God bless