coolestofall:

Probably because she was with womb. Give an example with smthing glaring no one can disprove, like an amputee or smthing like jesus n dat dude who's ear was cut off. But make it dis century.

lol
I dare them

.

How can someone so learned be so unintelligent enuf to facts..hv common sense n d little bible classes u attended not evn taught u a pin? Are u blind to d fact dat whn ur time is up notin can be done abt it? Hvnt heard or witnessed sm occassion whn ppl in critical condition regained health? Ppl h tot death was inherent? Hw com u dint talk abt dat one? Look! Watever part whatever hv set u,den dat is ur business dnt try to lure ppl into wit ur stories..ppl in d bible hvnt u read? To sim they die of sicknes or is killed or smtin..evn Lazarus Hu was raised wznt bc it was not his tym? Yes ur story is real but dnt blab wat u tink u know while u know nothin..bein a medical doctor doznt mean u know a tin abt life n death..so shove yr half baked story to ursef.. Drz ntn dat hpns dat God is not aware or does not permit before d hpns..if u turned an atheist gud for u Na..but d earlier u strt seein d truth d better for u...hv u evn asked God to unfold dez mysteries to u? So jst assume watever n xpct odas to follow suit

Ruq:


Your point exactly? No one ever ever guaranteed medicine as a definite remedy, why stress that, it's obvious you're still irked. pele.

The thread is about prayers failing patients at death's door, not the efficacy of medicine.

akintom:


It's in the character of most Christians to display crass ignorance and yet glorify in such idiocy.

Sudden death is secondary mostly to heart conditions, which could also be secondary to badly managed hypertension.

Your wife had most likely gone through this path.



You simply don't understand this report on your wife. This conclusion was based on the time from which you brought her in.

The condition could have been predictable and preventable, if she had presented at an earlier stage of whatever it was.

Stop denying, rebuking and rejecting signs of illness, in the name of Bible illusion. It spells needless pain and lost.




Semantics. Christianity is a religion. It's called Christian religion.

You really have problems. It's obvious you will blame the dead, their family or God to justify your delusion,

Omudia:
Thrash! The same medical doctors who have seen the wonders of prayers? Like women without wombs giving birth? Lol

That, is not a miracle. It happens. Rare, yes. But it happens without any spiritual intervention

akintom:

A visit to the surgical wards, will give robust evidence to this.

Most of the folks there are bound in pains of DM ulcers. 70% will eventually die within months. About 10% will have amputation done (most of them don't survive it for long, because of severe depression that sets in).

The pains and death that these folks do experience, is strongly connected to late presentation at the hospital.

At the diagnosis of the DM, they disappear from the clinic attendance, and start seeking spiritual healing upandan. When the ulcers start, the spiritualist calls the ulcer a spiritual arrows from imaginary enemies.

This is one of the evil inherent in religious beliefs.

Some ideas from this

(A little info...I come from an extended family who has been ravaged by diabetes, including deaths...so DM is a personal thing for me.Also, if all goes well, I intend to spend part of my working life doing DM research).

1.A lot of people who get Type 2 diabetes (and even type 1 diabetes) see it as a burden. That is partly due to poor healthcare counselling....and also because...diabetic drugs cost money. (Especially the really good stuff..like the gliptins...N12000 for a month's supply.HIV patients get their drugs free at least).

2.God wants the diabetic to learn the lessons of discipline in eating and exercises. Most people who seek healing want to be relieved of their burdens fast so that they can go back to their normal lives...and eat anyhow.

3.I am overweight. It is a sickness. And I know people who can eat more than I can, and never get fat. Wish I was among them. But...in a way being overweight has been godsent...because at the very least it has helped me value exercise...to the point of waking up early in the am to do it(although had to scale that back due to security concerns..ouch).

CatfishBilly:

The thread is about prayers failing patients at death's door, not the efficacy of medicine.

Yeah I know, that's what I was asking the nigga that posted 'medicine failed and so did prayer'

peacesamuel94:
Op did some cherry picking, what about those that were prayed for and got healed? Prayer was never meant to work in every case.
Just as you said, you do not have the ability to measure faith, People can appear to have faith whereas within, they're doubters.

If you have verifiable examples of such, bring them forward. Simple

tosan200:

NO. What you do shoudnt be the yardstick for a creator to take the life of another person. It doesn't work that way.

You are the one requesting of course . If u can't do wat it requires to get a miracle then why ask at all if u are required to read medicine before u become a Dr, u would do it, if u are required to serve in d nysc before u become a graduate u would do it, then u are required to also examine ur life thoroughly before you ask from God. because grace will not come where there is sin..... And unanswered prayers doesn't mean you are the problem as a Dr it might also be the parent's fault.

CatfishBilly:

Please just curious, what was the diagnosis?

y

It was a blood clot that blocked flow of blood between the lungs and the heart. The pathologist said he suspected it happened suddenly and everyone was right to assume heart attack. The only problem was their was no blood to carry the oxygen around the body despite the cpr cos the clot had blocked the flow of blood.

He said some people can develop this while flying a long distance and they don't have to have any symptoms. He it could be less fatal if it developed in other areas. In that case the patient may experience pain as the clot flows through the body

On this thread, there are so many misconceptions about some terms and their real meanings,
words like miracles( absolute coincidence), metaphysical, spiritual(doesn't exist though). In the world of science, generally, we believe in metaphysical realm but God is not included in that realm. I guess spiritual is linked with religion. I even saw a post from a supposed sociologist claiming he doubted god, it's very possible but only from a philosophical and social views, if you want proofs, it's in science. There are people who have abilities that would make you believe god exists, sadly he doesn't.

ApostleT:
y

It was a blood clot that blocked flow of blood between the lungs and the heart. The pathologist said he suspected it happened suddenly and everyone was right to assume heart attack. The only problem was their was no blood to carry the oxygen around the body despite the cpr cos the clot had blocked the flow of blood.

He said some people can develop this while flying a long distance and they don't have to have any symptoms. He it could be less fatal if it developed in other areas. In that case the patient may experience pain as the clot flows through the body

Yea, a variant of Pulmonary embolism called saddle embolism. It kills in minutes. Sorry for your loss, bro.

Infact, God bless you for these response. The actual problem is that a lot of people are gullible and stupid. There is no where in the Bible where God says you should not use drug or go to the hospital for treatment. some people decide to obey their pastors because they failed to use their brain. It is not everytime that a pastor will be right because he too is a limited and imperfect being. How can somebody in pain refuses to use drug to stop or reduce the pain if not for stupidity? If you are sick and you refuse to take appropiate drug/ go to the hospital on time and the person dies that cannot be the fault of God. Everybody on earth has a life span that we don't know. So when the time elapses the person has to go and it can happen by any means. It could be through accident, sickness, disease, sleep etc. We do not all have the same life span on this earth. All has been appointed to die and it is not everybody that will live to old age. So please do not attribute people's stupidity, foolishness and gullibility( as in failure to use drug and going to the hospital on time) to God's doing.

tonio2wo:


pastors are our major problem. they will tell u that u lack faith if u go for treatment for any ailment. they will tell u to pray it out.
God is not stupid and cannot be tempted! he already provided the knowledge for treatment and drugs but idiots keep testing him. that child died out of negligence and carelessness from his parent, why wait till the malaria become critical. am sure they were doing "u r healed by faith"

leave God out of peoples foolishness.

Sexina851:


You are the one requesting of course . If u can't do wat it requires to get a miracle then why ask at all if u are required to read medicine before u become a Dr, u would do it, if u are required to serve in d nysc before u become a graduate u would do it, then u are required to also examine ur life thoroughly before you ask from God. because grace will not come where there is sin..... And unanswered prayers doesn't mean you are the problem as a Dr it might also be the parent's fault.

If by grace you mean what we both know as grace, then it comes with or without sin. I am an atheist, most of your people had said and kept saying I am still living because of grace, though rebellion against your god abounds in me. So how do you define that?

avaa:


Evidences are littered all over the place. There is no god anywhere who gives a Bleep about us. I have personally seen enough to come to this conclusion. I witnessed a mad man killed a pastor's wife, the pastor's daughter, his (mad man) own wife, and a friend to the pastor's daughter. This is after the pastor organised a night-vigil for the mad-man. Why didn't they take this man to a psychiatric hospital? Your guess is as good as mine.
My great uncle also told me of a pastor who was being strangled to death by a mad man he was praying for. Nigger broke his restraint and pounced on the pastor. Luckily for him, some of his members were around, they ran to his rescue, in the process killing the mad man.
My family is a very religious one, but they know my stance on issues such as this, the annoying thing is that when this sorta issue comes up, all they have for defense are Nollywood movies. I can't help but SMH. The good thing is that my youngest sibling is following in my footsep.

Chief sounds like you live in sokoto. This incident happened in my area in old airport.

Sexina851:


You are the one requesting of course . If u can't do wat it requires to get a miracle then why ask at all if u are required to read medicine before u become a Dr, u would do it, if u are required to serve in d nysc before u become a graduate u would do it, then u are required to also examine ur life thoroughly before you ask from God. because grace will not come where there is sin..... And unanswered prayers doesn't mean you are the problem as a Dr it might also be the parent's fault.

i dont want to enter into an argument, I just want to correct something, grace, is unconditional. I don't think there is anybody who doesn't 'sin'

Op...what do u think abt the existence of witches n wizards?...cus some bliv prayers seem to be there antidote!

CatfishBilly:

I'm yet to see a single case where prayers changed the Patient's fortunes. If I see one, trust me, I'll post it here. I really want to believe, but all I see all around me is evidence otherwise.
Which part of the Bible says that Prayer wasn't meant to work in every case?

Doctor, it's not everything you'll know. I know of someone who was healed of heart disease in 1990 and she's still alive today. She went to the best heart specialists in the country and they confirmed that her case was beyond her. It was even difficult to withdraw blood from her veins.

She had lost more than 30% of her body weight. The hospital had to discharge her for her to die in peace. But guess what! She got healed in a Church.

I believe in miracles, but I don't disregard medical science. We don't know everything, so we can't make any conclusion yet. Make due diligence to find out for yourself.

peacesamuel94:
Op did some cherry picking, what about those that were prayed for and got healed? Prayer was never meant to work in every case.
Just as you said, you do not have the ability to measure faith, People can appear to have faith whereas within, they're doubters.

what? If prayers where not meant to work in every case, why pray at all... So prayer is now lyk gamblin...

miami35:
Op...what do u think abt the existence of witches n wizards?...cus some bliv prayers seem to be there antidote!

Although you asked the op, but permit me to make a submission. Witches and Wizards do not EXIST. I will not argue, I will only give you reasons.
1. A so called witch or wizard can only attack someone she/he has seen or know, eg a witch in your town cannot harm me because she doesn't know me. But could harm you because she knows you.
2. A witch's charm or witchcraft cannot hurt whoever it is intented for in an instant, it takes a lot of time to suck someone's blood shey? One would ask, with all those powers why wait for days or months to catch me instead of an instant? It's because there's nothing as such
3. Witchcraft and Wizardry are two phenomenon based on hate and envy, you will be surprised how the body(mind) communicates with the universe and tend to affect the other person's convenience or inconvenience. You may not understand this post, please reread if you don't.

Prayers are nothing more than wishes. They can be answered by the power of coincidence. Whether you wish (pray) or not, WHATEVER WILL BE WILL BE.

Sexina851:


You are the one requesting of course . If u can't do wat it requires to get a miracle then why ask at all if u are required to read medicine before u become a Dr, u would do it, if u are required to serve in d nysc before u become a graduate u would do it, then u are required to also examine ur life thoroughly before you ask from God. because grace will not come where there is sin..... And unanswered prayers doesn't mean you are the problem as a Dr it might also be the parent's fault.

You where the problem lies- There will always be sin.

Omudia:
Thrash! The same medical doctors who have seen the wonders of prayers? Like women without wombs giving birth? Lol

OP will come back here to testify the power of prayers

Akin1212:

Although you asked the op, but permit me to make a submission. Witches and Wizards do not EXIST. I will not argue, I will only give you reasons.
1. A so called witch or wizard can only attack someone she/he has seen or know, eg a witch in your town cannot harm me because she doesn't know me. But could harm you because she knows you.
2. A witch's charm or witchcraft cannot hurt whoever it is intented for in an instant, it takes a lot of time to suck someone's blood shey? One would ask, with all those powers why wait for days or months to catch me instead of an instant? It's because there's nothing as such
3. Witchcraft and Wizardry are two phenomenon based on hate and envy, you will be surprised how the body(mind) communicates with the universe and tend to affect the other person's convenience or inconvenience. You may not understand this post, please reread if you don't.

To discuss whether witches exist, visit the following thread so this one won't be derailed:
https://www.nairaland.com/3449902/witches-wizards-exist-dont-think

CatfishBilly:
The 3rd case or group of cases that I want to share.

I worked in a HIV/AIDS unit directly for 3 months and indirectly for another 3 months..

The patients come in, are diagnosed and are placed on Highly Active Anti Retroviral Drugs.

Then we noticed a pattern amongst a sizable number of patients. They start therapy, their CD4 cell count starts improving, the future looks bright, then suddenly, their CD4 cell count starts dropping and they begin to get really sick, they get admitted as Stage 4 patients and they die. We started asking questions around and it turns out that their Pastors and popular Men of God have told them that they are healed and that they should stop taking their medications, so, they believe and stop taking their drugs, then they deteriorate and die. I don't have any yardstick to measure faith, but their faith is definitely bigger than a mustard seed.

It was a running problem, it got so bad that before we start any patient on HAART, we'll counsel them about their Pastors, that if any Pastor tells them to stop taking medication that they are healed, that the should report to the hospital first before stopping. We'll invite them to go to the wards to see the state of those who have Stage 4 AIDS.

I've never seen as much faith in any group of patients as those who have HIV, they always want to pray, especially in the midnight, one of their drugs is very sedating, so they always come to complain that they can't pray in the night because of that particular medication and ask us to change it to enable them pray.

With all their faith and the works backing their faith, they still don't get healed or die from the ailment, which baffles me cos it's written that with faith, we can move mountains.

Next Case

sighs. it's like you're quoting my experience right here. I also have to grapple with this same challenge with PLHIV under care

God is as eloquent in silence as He is in thundering.Jesus Christ is the same yesterday ,today and forever.The death of Stephen led to the salvation of Paul and so many others,and he had such a beautiful testimony even at the face of death.The most important thing is man's soul and we should never trade it for any 'miracle'.Most Nigerians worship God with the same mentality they used to worship idols of then.He is God and needs not prove anything.
The church has failed us,and now we have a lot of confused young men who want miracle without knowing the true God.

That is stupidity of the highest order by the woman, her husband and family. How can someone loss a child first time because she refused to do CS and still allowed herself to be cajoled the same way the second and third time and now you are blaming God for their stupidity and foolishness? A beg go and sit down jare. All these cases you are bringing up are as a result of people's gullibility, stupidity and foolishness shikena.

CatfishBilly:
Next case (I've lost count)

This woman was actually well known to the hospital staff. This was her 3rd CS. It was found out that she had contracted pelvis and was told that all her childbirth would be via CS. She refused. She was a member of a church that also runs a maternity and their mantra is that all women would give birth like the Hebrew women.

She pushed and pushed at her first delivery till the baby died and she was brought to the hospital for CS to remove the dead baby. Same thing happened the 2nd time. So, the faith of the whole church, their prayers couldn't save her. She has had 3 pregnancies, 3 dead babies and 3 CS with nothing to show for it.

Praying for years to have a vaginal delivery, still, nothing

olagift:
That is stupidity of the highest order by the woman, her husband and family. How can someone loss a child first time because she refused to do CS and still allowed herself to be cajoled the same way the second and third time and now you are blaming God for their stupidity and foolishness? A beg go and sit down jare. All these cases you are bringing up are as a result of people's gullibility, stupidity and foolishness shikena.

They are lies.
Period.

I for once have questioned the existence of God. But He has proved himself again and again, almost 10 years ago my dad was diagnosed with enlargement of the heart, and drugs was prescribed for him, he was taking them until all of a sudden, his health deteriorated so badly, he couldnt sleep and when he sleeps it was scarily, he went back to the hospital and was told the drugs he took was wrong and had done the opposite of reducing the heart and the rate at which the heart has enlarged was bad and was too late for anything to be done. and he had few months if not weeks to live.
Then something crazy happened, the bank where he worked was robbed and he was shot, that was around 11AM and there was no hospital around that could operate on him, he had to go to general Hospital where he got there around 2PM but wasnt treated till 8pm. Now the doctor who saw him said it was medicinally impossible to still be alive and it was impossible for the bullet to have not touched the liver or kidney or any vital organ and that was also part of the reason for the delay because doctors expected him to die. while all this went on prayers was offered to the living God, the faithful father, the keep of life.
He said much later when he recovered that he dreamt and saw people praying on his behalf. Within less than 4 months he was out of the hospital and even the doctor that operated him made a mistake during the operation.
I believe doctor but I believe God more. I remembered when i was sick and I called him and He showed Himself, its been 4 year that i have taken drugs not even paracetamol no matter the stress. I know He has a reason for everything and I trust Him that He has Our good at heart. He loves us more than we love ourselves. I have also seen not just people with medically impossible challenges delivered.

EggPlant:
Chief sounds like you live in sokoto. This incident happened in my area in old airport.

Yes I do.