ttalks:

I guess it might be a bit misplaced to say the new testament abolished tithing; tithing being: giving of 10% of a resource.
That would mean that any form of giving that amounts to 10% of its source is wrong.

The right thing to say is that: the new testament has removed the must-do clause or mandatory obligation on tithe paying.
As it is, if u give 10% of anything towards God(which could be; taking care of the needs of the needy or towards some church need/requirement) there is no problem; you do no wrong. But note, u are not in a superior state over another who has not or will not do the same as you did.

If you do not give 10% of anything towards God(which could be the same as above^^^) but do meet needs, as they come up every once in a while, in percentages below 10 or above 10 of anything, you do no wrong. You are loved by God all the same.

The thing that the new covenant preaches is love which is expressed through giving of varying kinds determined by the owner of the resource and under no pressure or requirement. It doesn't preach giving in the hope of/because of receiving windfalls.

As you must realise from my posts elsewhere, I do not have a problem if someone who knows that there is no Christian obligation to "tithe" chooses to do so. The "tithing" that is constantly debated on this forum is invariably obligatory tithing --- the basis of which again invariably is the Old Testament. Hebrews 7 clearly abolishes Old Testament based "tithing". If a person gives voluntarily 'as he purposes' and does so in the form of "tithing", that is not Old Testament based tithing; that is not obligatory/mandatory tithing; that is voluntary "tithing" --- and I certainly (and many others) have stated that we have no problem with that.

Thus my statement that Hebrews 7 abolishes tithing remains accurate ---- understood in the sense of the debates concerning "tithing" on this forum.

Enigma:

Hebrews 7 clearly abolishes Old Testament based "tithing". If a person gives voluntarily 'as he purposes' and does so in the form of "tithing", that is not Old Testament based tithing; that is not obligatory/mandatory tithing; that is voluntary "tithing" --- and I certainly (and many others) have stated that we have no problem with that.

Hehe. .  another lie from the pit of hell!

Hebrews 7 NOWHERE says that OT tithing has been abolished! NOWHERE. Why? Because tithing was NOT originated from the old testament under the Jews, but predated the whole of Judaism as a covenant to those people!

Second, the New Testament arguments for giving comes from the OT scriptures. There is no argument that anybody can bring here about any form of tithe without a throwback to the OT scriptures, so no one can argue that it is not an OT based thing. People are too driven by shallow thinking that they think all of a sudden, there is a "new" way of giving that was never derived from the OT! On the contrary, the NT discourses for the Christian testimony is based on the declarations of the OT.

We should not be making false and misleading assertions on Hebrews 7 - and it does not surprise me that those who have repeated that lie have never been open for a discussion on that chapter for the assertion they make.

Enigma:

As you must realise from my posts elsewhere, I do not have a problem if someone who knows that there is no Christian obligation to "tithe" chooses to do so. The "tithing" that is constantly debated on this forum is invariably obligatory tithing --- the basis of which again invariably is the Old Testament. Hebrews 7 clearly abolishes Old Testament based "tithing". If a person gives voluntarily 'as he purposes' and does so in the form of "tithing", that is not Old Testament based tithing; that is not obligatory/mandatory tithing; that is voluntary "tithing" --- and I certainly (and many others) have stated that we have no problem with that.

Thus my statement that Hebrews 7 abolishes tithing remains accurate ---- understood in the sense of the debates concerning "tithing" on this forum.

I understand you perfectly. But you know, some people tend to ignore every other thing you've said and focus on just the present statement you made.
Example: viaro  

viaro:

Hehe. .  another lie from the pit of hell!

Hebrews 7 NOWHERE says that OT tithing has been abolished! NOWHERE. Why? Because tithing was NOT originated from the old testament under the Jews, but predated the whole of Judaism as a covenant to those people!

Second, the New Testament arguments for giving comes from the OT scriptures. There is no argument that anybody can bring here about any form of tithe without a throwback to the OT scriptures, so no one can argue that it is not an OT based thing. People are too driven by shallow thinking that they think all of a sudden, there is a "new" way of giving that was never derived from the OT! On the contrary, the NT discourses for the Christian testimony is based on the declarations of the OT.

We should not be making false and misleading assertions on Hebrews 7 - and it does not surprise me that those who have repeated that lie have never been open for a discussion on that chapter for the assertion they make.

This is old testament tithing:

Heb 7:5
(5)  And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

And we know that in the new Testament, there is no levite who has any commandment to take tithes of the people.
That's where the whole old testament or no old testament tithing arises from. 

ttalks:

I understand you perfectly. But you know, some people tend to ignore every other thing you've said and focus on just the present statement you made.
Example: viaro 

No, I did not ignore everything - other or instant - of what he said, but made clear where i find his lie most appalling. The assertion that Hebrews 7 abolishes tithing is a huge lie from the pit of hell smuggled in among the "everything else" he said, so that here it might help you his apologist to make a pretentious note like you didn't see what I had highlighted. Please stop playing the joker.

This is old testament tithing:

Heb 7:5
(5) And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

And we know that in the new Testament, there is no levite who has any commandment to take tithes of the people.
That's where the whole old testament or no old testament tithing arises from.

Isn't this a further lie? Could I take you seriously, or would you like to come back and quickly edit?

But doesn't the same Hebrews 7 show you the tithe of ABRAHAM? And what was Levi's tithe compared to ABARAHAM? Here is what verse 9 says: "And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham." What does that say? It says simply that BEFORE EVEN LEVI WAS BORN, the tithes of Abraham superceded the Levitical tithes! Tell me, how is it that the "WHOLE OLD TESTAMENT" argues tithe on the basis of Levi's tithes?

You guys are too cheap! You only see what you want to see.

viaro:

No, I did not ignore everything - other or instant - of what he said, but made clear where i find his lie most appalling. The assertion that Hebrews 7 abolishes tithing is a huge lie from the pit of hell smuggled in among the "everything else" he said, so that here it might help you his apologist to make a pretentious note like you didn't see what I had highlighted. Please stop playing the joker.

Isn't this a further lie? Could I take you seriously, or would you like to come back and quickly edit?

But doesn't the same Hebrews 7 show you the tithe of ABRAHAM? And what was Levi's tithe compared to ABARAHAM? Here is what verse 9 says: "And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham." What does that say? It says simply that BEFORE EVEN LEVI WAS BORN, the tithes of Abraham superceded the Levitical tithes! Tell me, how is it that the "WHOLE OLD TESTAMENT" argues tithe on the basis of Levi's tithes?

You guys are too cheap! You only see what you want to see.

You are too high spirited and brash to see what point a person is trying to pass across.
Now, calm down and read through my two posts on this thread and try to see the point i was trying to make you see. if you can't see itas ur post above is showing, tell me and i'll make it easy for you.
Jeez! ! !

ttalks:


Jeez! ! !

Precisely!!

ttalks:

You are too high spirited and brash to see what point a person is trying to pass across.
Now, calm down and read through my two posts on this thread and try to see the point i was trying to make you see. if you can't see itas your post above is showing, tell me and i'll make it easy for you.
Jeez! ! !

What point are you trying to make? Yes, I am brash especially to 'Christians' who propel a lie and never ever try to take a moment to reason with others! The point is that Hebrews 7 DOES NOT abolish tithes. If he (or you on his behalf) think it does, rather than repeat the lie ad infinitum, why don't you guys address the point? At least, I applaud you for your attempt to be reasonable - but your opening remarks about my ignoring all else he stated was just uncalled for.

viaro:

What point are you trying to make? Yes, I am brash especially to 'Christians' who propel a lie and never ever try to take a moment to reason with others! The point is that Hebrews 7 DOES NOT abolish tithes. If he (or you on his behalf) think it does, rather than repeat the lie ad infinitum, why don't you guys address the point? At least, I applaud you for your attempt to be reasonable - but your opening remarks about my ignoring all else he stated was just uncalled for.

The point I was trying to make was that there is a very clear difference between tithing in the days of the old covenant and any tithing that might exist in the new covenant.
The old covenant made tithing a responsibility of the people according to some stated laws. It was something they had to do at certain points in time; no escaping it, no issue of "if you want to or not" or "as you wish to do it". When the time comes for tithing, it must be done.
Hence the statement in hebrews 7:5 saying the levites were mandated by the law to take the tithes of the people; making them sort of like enforcers of that law.

In the new covenant, there is no obligation to tithe, no enforcer to enforce tithe payments and no stated rule saying you must give 10% of this or that at this point in time or anytime to whomever. All that exists in the new testament is giving as determined by the giver to meet needs as they come. This is the same as regards any giving that might amount to 10% of its source and which could be called a tithe.

Very, very clear differences between the tithe that exists in the old testament and that which might crop up in the new.
Now when I spoke to Enigma at first, I made it clear that the point one could glean from Hebrews 7 is the point i have stated above.
And that is : hebrews 7 not abolishing tithes but making clear the fact that tithes as practiced then is not the same as now based on the conditions surrounding their giving; required/obligatory at certain points in time as against not required but as one wishes or determines(if it turns out to be a tithe/10%).

Traugott:

I once saw this story on the internet, please read it open-mindedly. The words in blue are my own annotation.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How many of us really know the reasons for tithing? Or we are stone-facedly following the practice like the successive tying of the ashram cat? Why is it not found in the New Testament if it is so important? Are we slaves to God, or sons in his kingdom? Who are we meant to give our tithe to, then?

God is more interested in your heart that gives, and not in any percentage. e.g. the widow's tiny mite was far greater than any billions dropped by a business mogul. THAT is God's heart, and that's how things work spiritually.

Deu 26:12 Every third year, the year of the tithe, give a tenth of your produce to the Levite, the foreigner, the orphan, and the widow so that they may eat their fill in your cities.

If tithing must indeed be done compulsorily, then this aspect always misses people's ears. The foreigner with no inheritance / the stranded one / the one who cannot afford to go to school, the orphan / widowed / from a broken home who has nothing to call their own, the Levite who also has no inheritance and has nothing to call their own IS the one that you pay this particular tenth to. But, no, people will lay up their 10% and bandy it to to the church, passing over half-dead and hungry neighbours, leaving the good Samaritan to attend to those ones.

There are people dying in Jos, Nigeria; and in Haiti. People have been rendered homeless and hungry. Send them help, let God use you! THAT is how to give to God!!

Tithe Origins: Please take note of all the emphasized words
Deu 14:22 Make an offering of ten percent, a tithe, of all the produce which grows in your fields year after year.
Deu 14:23 Bring this into the Presence of GOD, your God, at the place he designates for worship and there eat the tithe from your grain, wine, and oil and the firstborn from your herds and flocks. In this way you will learn to live in deep reverence before GOD, your God, as long as you live.
Deu 14:24 But[b] if the place GOD, your God, designates for worship is too far away and you can't carry your tithe that far[/b], [size=13pt]GOD, your God, will still bless you[/size]:
Deu 14:25 exchange your tithe for money and take the money to the place GOD, your God, has chosen to be worshiped.
Deu 14:26 Use the money to buy anything you want: cattle, sheep, wine, or beer--anything that looks good to you. You and your family can then feast in the Presence of GOD, your God, and have a good time.
Deu 14:27 [size=13pt]Meanwhile[/size], don't forget to take good care of the Levites who live in your towns; they won't get any property or inheritance of their own as you will.

The last words in green is where tithes apply to the pastor, but people have overshadowed this to cover ALL the aspects of tithing, which was a Jewish RITUAL custom! Many people are doing what they have NO understanding of, and they do it out of fear.

I am not against sending a prophet's offering to your church / pastor, or to give bountifully and reap bountifully, but there is no compulsory tithing in the New Testament.

I have searched throughout the Bible and I cant find where Christians are asked to tithe, eat the tithe (or even give it to the church, like they do today) and all that. Whoever can show this to me from the Scriptures will educate my long-lasting ignorance.

The word of God is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path. Amen and amen.

traugott - i'm suprised u re saying this - u are misleading people - tithing is COMPULSORY read Malachi 3 vs 6-10

Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not cast their fruit," says the LORD Almighty.

woye77:

traugott - i'm suprised u re saying this - u are misleading people - tithing is COMPULSORY read Malachi 3 vs 6-10

Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not cast their fruit," says the LORD Almighty.

It was compulsory under the old testament. It certainly is not compulsory under the new testament.

Wow! Tithing always makes it to the front page! On my part, i look to the Bible- God's Word and final authority (2 Tim 3:16). When Paul wrote to the zealous Corinthians he reminded them God loves a cheerful giver. How much giving does God expect from us? Just as much as we decide. (vs 6).Our giving should be as "gifts" just like Paul advised (vs5). Generousity is blessed by God with the capacity to give even more. (vs 10). God will NEVER visit calamity upon a person for not giving or for any reason at all. Why? He is Love (1 Jn 4: and love harbours no fear. (1 Jn 4:18) God delivers us from calamity and does not cause adversity for any reason. (Jas 1:13). That He allows it doesnt make Him the cause (did He cause Job's suffering? Or allow Satan try him so Job's faith could shame the Devil?) - TBC

Contd - Ps 34:19 tells us God's position on our trials. Anyone threatning sincere believers to tithe or face consequences is clearly not speaking God's mind and is not reading their Bible. Giving is a blessing and must be done with joy. God's pleasure is with joyful gifts and not money paid out of fear of "divine" reprisal. Which gift would YOU appreciate more? What more God! My battery is low, i shall conclude later with why just dropping money in the church is not enough, why having "faith" about what we give is not what God desires of us - from the Biblical standpoint. Cheers!

@ttalks,

Thanks for your attempts to outline your concerns, which at the very least do not address the point here that brought us thus far. Be that as it may, I shall try to answer yours.

ttalks:

The point I was trying to make was that there is a very clear difference between tithing in the days of the old covenant and any tithing that might exist in the new covenant.

I don't contest that - and yet, that was not the issue at all. When someone says that 'tithing' is abolished, that is just something that needs to be addressed. Perhaps the reason why I gave it a 'nonsensical' score, is because many people who do not reason through issues carefully have drugged themselves far too deeply with an anti-tithing stance that they borrowed from anti-tithing theologians. This is why the posters who recycle such assertions would never stand to reason through anything other than repeat for emphasis, as if that helps their case at all. As Christians, we should be very careful the kind of unwarranted assertions we make on verses that are not saying what we want them to say!

The old covenant made tithing a responsibility of the people according to some stated laws. It was something they had to do at certain points in time; no escaping it, no issue of "if you want to or not" or "as you wish to do it". When the time comes for tithing, it must be done.

Good one, ttalks. You've put a smile on my face when you mention "old covenant" - which is not the same as "Old Testament". I'm not quibbling here, but especially with regards to Hebrews 7, both types of tithes (Abrahamic and Levitical) are drawn from the scriptures of the Old Testament, while the latter was especially on the "old covenant". Therefore, it is a bit misplaced for anyone to be arguing that Hebrews 7 "abolishes" tithing of the Old Testament, if you get what I mean?

Hence the statement in hebrews 7:5 saying the levites were mandated by the law to take the tithes of the people; making them sort of like enforcers of that law.

No - it (tithes) does not make anyone an "enforcer" the Law. Let me share two very important matters about the Law that anti-tithers often miss (please understand that I am not grouping you among 'anti-tithers'):

[list](a)    the spirit of the old covenant Law
(b)    the power of the old covenant[/list]

As to the spirit of the Law, the whole principle is driven by Hosea 6:6 - "For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings." This is the essential thing that the Jews had missed (and which many people continue to miss today) and thereby basing their whole understanding of the covenants (both old and new) on literalism!

As regards the power of the old covenant, we know that it was ratified by blood (Heb. 9:18ff) - and a covenant is useless UNLESS it is first ratified. However, what gives the old covenant its power consequently is its foundation - and we know that it was NOT UPON TITHES that the old covenant was founded!

We should understand this, without which many people would never understand Heb. 7:11-12. Go on to Hebrews 9 which says "when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law" (v. 19) - and here we might ask: was TITHE part of the "precepts" when Moses ratified the old covenant?? From Exodus 24:8-11, we find that the ratification was done at a time much earlier than any mention of tithes! What does this say? It shows us that TITHES was not the foundation of the Levitical priesthood, and Hebrews 7 CANNOT be used to argue the idea of tithes having been "abolished". Infact, when you carefully go through every single verse of the Bible, you will not find any single verse where God ever abolsihed tithes - NOT ONCE in the entire Bible! This again was why Levi's tithes was subsumed within the Abrahamic tithes in Hebrews 7:9!

Hence, it was not on the basis of tithes that the Levites "enforced" (or enacted, or implemented) the old covenant or Law. Infact, in Hebrews 7, verse 6 shows that verse 5 is not superior to (but subsumed within) what precedes it - showing that even when Melchizedek was not descended from the Levites, he yet received tithes from them! How does he do so? That is where verse 9 comes in - "And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham."

But more to the point is verse 11-12, not arguing for the Levitical tithes, but more about  PRIESTHOOD. It was a change in the Levitical priesthood that warranted a change of the Law upon which that priesthood was founded. But what was the foundation of the Levitical covenant? We have seen that when Moses ratified that covenant, the tithe was NOT MENTIONED by then (see Exodus 24:8-11). It was long after that ratification that the tithes came in, its mention within Judaism first appearing in Leviticus 27 (whereas the ratification of the priesthood had taken place much earlier as well in Leviticus 8:30).

I just wanted to point out these simple things to show that Hebrews 7 presents several things to us, but some have narrowed it to just one thing - tithes being "abolished" - when NO VERSE in that chapter ever said so!

. . @ttalks,

In the new covenant, there is no obligation to tithe, no enforcer to enforce tithe payments and no stated rule saying you must give 10% of this or that at this point in time or anytime to whomever.

I don't think I have argued for an obligation. In fact, I have repeated in this thread that coerced giving in any form is not God's will for His children - whether OT or NT! I also gave references in either case. The problem with many people is that we tend to place unnecessary arguments of "mandated" this and that and miss the fact that God does not require coerced giving from His people - this was why He stated that people should bring His offering from willing hearts (Exo. 25:2), and this again was reiterated in the NT (2 Cor. 9:7).

All that exists in the new testament is giving as determined by the giver to meet needs as they come. This is the same as regards any giving that might amount to 10% of its source and which could be called a tithe.

Okay.

Very, very clear differences between the tithe that exists in the old testament and that which might crop up in the new.

The difference is not so significant, my dear bro - it is not. We have tended to take these things too much in literal terms that we fail to see the basic foundation of 'sameness' in both cases. I, for one, do not stretch things that far, because I recognize that "tithes" in Judaism (both in the Bible and scholarly Jewish material) is not always and only '10%' - they vary, and I know many anti-tithing theologians who cannot deny this (except they do so without conscience like those from anselm.com).

Now when I spoke to Enigma at first, I made it clear that the point one could glean from Hebrews 7 is the point i have stated above.
And that is : hebrews 7 not abolishing tihes but making clear the fact that tithes as practiced then is not the same as now based on the conditions surrounding their giving; required/obligatory at certain points in time as against not required but as one wishes or determines(if it turn out to be a tithe/10%).

I have no problem with your summary, and I saw all that. I was non-tolerant to the idea that I had ignored other things that Enigma had said only to narrow on a few lines in his - which is not true. I clearly highlighted the part in his post that was patently false, and he went on several times to repeat for "emphasis" the same drivel. That was why I first classed it as the most nonsensical assertion I ever read from anyone, and for anyone making such a drivel and repeating it with "emphasis" is simply idiotic! I had hoped you would see that and understand why my stance?

Cheers.

@woye77: I was/am not misleading people. I have carefully made 5 or 6 or so posts on this thread, and I believe none of them is misleading. Someone else is yet to show me otherwise. That verse you quoted was in reference to the old covenant.

Repeated for emphasis:

Enigma:

There is no tithing requirement; the best they will come up with is Matthew 23:23 or Hebrews 7  (neither of which they understand and neither of which says a Christian should tithe; in fact, Hebrews 7 makes clear that "tithing" is abolished).
. . . .  A Christian has NO obligation to "tithe".

Enigma:

Repeated for emphasis:

Just to confirm. .

"You can do so from now till the nth page of this thread - doesn't change anything from the same reply I gave earlier. Come back and repeat it again to show how small you are."

Repeated for . . .

well, again no real need to repeat . . .

Enigma:

Repeated for . . .

well, again no real need to repeat . . .

Why have you been repeating it earlier . . with 'emphasis'? You really should have been doing so - to the nth page of this thread, and then we know what you're confirming (as I said earlier). Please, do repeat it - how-so-many times as you please, it would just show us the same 'small' stuff.

woye77:

traugott - i'm suprised u re saying this - u are misleading people - tithing is COMPULSORY read Malachi 3 vs 6-10

Tithing is not compulsory - Malachi 3 does not force anyone either to be blessed or to be cursed. . it's one's choice whichever they prefer.

Repeated for . . .

well, again no real need to repeat . . .

@woye77: You may also want to read this. I am in full agreement with what Pastor Tunde Bakare says here:

Q: What is the position of Christianity on tithing because some argue that it doesn’t have a place in Christianity?

A: I don’t have an opinion. I live by the book. I’ll tell you what is in the book. The first man to pay tithe was Abraham, when he met Melchizedek. And when he gave that tithe, the book of Hebrews says even Levi, who became a priest later, paid tithe while he was still in the loins of his father, Abraham. So, there was tithe before the law. There was tithe during the law. And Christ Jesus now came and said, this you ought to do, but you neglect the weightier matters of the law. This you ought to do and the other you do not neglect. If you are asking what is the agreed position in the New Testament, listen to Paul in I Corinthians Chapter 16, verse 1. At least I’m not reading from the Old Testament. I can tell you by the grace of God that at the Latter Rain Assembly, you can come and watch us, stay for about five or six weeks, you will not hear such a thing mentioned. You will know a church by the time you worship there for six or seven weeks.

We encourage our people because even the running of the place requires support of those who are worshipping there. Do you belong to any club or organisation? To join Ikoyi Club 1938, there are fees. It is the abuse that is the problem because it must come from your heart. Melchizedek did not demand tithe from Abraham. It was what Abraham did willingly. My opinion is that let every man be persuaded in his own heart. If it is not honour, then it is robbery. What the Bible says is honour the Lord with your susbstance and the first fruits of your increase so that your barns may be full. It has to be honour. It is the same word you use for your parents. The first time I gave my mother an allowance was when I was a Youth Corper. I gave her N50 out of my N200 monthly allowance because I was the only one she depended on. And from that year till today, my mother’s monthly allowance has increased, although I won’t tell you how much she gets now. She was 100 in October. I lost my father when I was two years old. So God allowed my mother to stay to see me through. Would I neglect my mother? So also will I not neglect the God who is the source of everything I have. But it has to be a matter of honour.

There are three priesthoods in the Bible. The priesthood of Midian, the Levitical priesthood and the Melchizedek priesthood.

This is what is causing the  problem. The priesthood of Midian is that of Jethro, the father in-law of Moses. It deals with strategies, administration and dedication of duties. It teaches you how to delegate so that you are not overworked. It does not raise sons, it raises workers. So in such ministries where Jethro principle is what they’re following, you’ll be hearing workers, workers, workers, instead of raising sons of God.

Leviticus priesthood is mainly about offering. And remember they were in the wilderness; no supermarket, no work and they didn’t go anywhere. There was nowhere to spend all the money they took from Egypt. So, it’s offering in the morning, offering at night and offering in the evening. When you find a ministry whose major emphasis is bring, bring, give, give, its the Levitical priesthood. They are still in the wilderness.

But we have moved out of the wilderness. The priesthood of our Lord Jesus Christ Christ, according to Hebrew 6, 7 up to 8, is after the order of Melchizedek who was already a king before he met Abraham. He did not need the offering of Abraham to be king. So those who are practising Melchizedek  priesthood do not depend on their congregation. They don’t wait because they are lazy for them to go and work and bring resources to them. They also labour with their own hands to have resources and when the church contributes, they probably contribute more. You can find out these things. So it depends on which priesthood is being practised.

Tithes are to be used to take care of widows, the helpless, and services in the house of God. Why should they come to you to say we want to pay NEPA bills, we want to pay church staff? People that are working in the ministry have to be paid and the organisation has to be run. But it’s never compulsory. If anybody tells you if you don’t pay tithe you  will remain tight, greed in his heart is influencing that because Christ has become the cross for us. For it is written: ‘Cursed is anyone that hangs on the tree that the blessing of Abraham now come upon the Gentile’ If it is from your heart, like it was with Abraham, it will bring blessings. But if it is teleguided, it is no longer spirit-led and does not activate anything in heaven. I think what is causing it is that we embark on projects God did not give to us and put ourselves under financial pressure, which we transmit  to people.

Do I pay tithe? Definitely. But I don’t make it a law for everybody. I do from my earnings because I don’t depend on church offerings. My hands, like Paul’s, provided for my necessities. I pay my tax like any other citizen of this country. I pay from my legitimate earnings. If I have to wait for them to give on Sundays before I send my children to school and eat, then something is wrong. If this church folds up, I cannot live anymore. And in a depressed economy, so many churches have opened up that are not at the instance of the Holy Spirit.

Reference http://thenewsng.com/cover-story/why-i-quit-redeemed-church/2009/11

Traugott:

@woye77: You may also want to read this. I am in full agreement with what Pastor Tunde Bakare says here:

Reference http://thenewsng.com/cover-story/why-i-quit-redeemed-church/2009/11

Thank you - I was looking for the link! After all Pastor Tunde Bakare shared there, I especially like the manner in which he recaps:

Do I pay tithe? Definitely. But I don’t make it a law for everybody.

You're welcome, Viaro. Actually, YOU led me to the post. I did not even know that Tunde Bakare said all of the above, until some minutes ago. I saw anselm.com in your post #141 above, wondered what it was, googled anselm.com tithes, and a nairaland thread dated November 28, 2009 came up as 2nd result. On that thread, YOU and chukwudi44 were discussing.

This thread: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-358631.0.html

YOU also mentioned anselm.com there, and then later posted this very link. That was how I read the article and re-posted here. How's that for a dose of karma? 

viaro:

Thank you - I was looking for the link! After all Pastor Tunde Bakare shared there, I especially like the manner in which he recaps:

viaro:

Tithing is not compulsory - Malachi 3 does not force anyone either to be blessed or to be cursed. . it's one's choice whichever they prefer.

Traugott:

@woye77: I was/am not misleading people. I have carefully made 5 or 6 or so posts on this thread, and I believe none of them is misleading. Someone else is yet to show me otherwise. That verse you quoted was in reference to the old covenant.

@viaro and traugott
what have you got to say about Matthew 23:23 - at least that was Jesus speaking in the new testament hear him "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others please make a note of the highlighted verse

Jesus makes it clear that the old testament principles of tithing must not be ignored .

also read Matthew 5:17 - Jesus talking again - hear him "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them"

so you can see guys tithing is still an integral part of christian faith

This thread was about which should take precedence - rent or tithe for the original poster.

Why or rather, how has it digressed to a full-on religious thread?  

@woye77: Tithing is important, but not compulsory. Love is compulsory. Faith is compulsory. Tithing is important, but you must understand it.

It's probably even better to take the money, throw a party, invite your friends and blast the money; than to drop the money perforce because you see it as a compulsory thing.

Did you really read the article by Pastor Bakare? I am not a member of his church, but I can say surely that It's enlightening!

Thank goodness am not in your shoes as I know what to do. Since you have asked for my opinion I will give one.

Tithing is good is a good way to convince yourself that devourer is not around your domain as it is written in the Bible and as a pastor use to say and I quote "If you don't pay your tithe, it will be tight for you".

Now to the critical mind, you will read the whole of Malachi 3 and see some more interesting things apart from the section of the tithe. It says pay tithe so there will be meat in my house (church) so look at your church if they have meat and left overs then I don't think they need your tithe. Most churches these days have more than meat even Jet, it is only a man that has eaten to the full will think of Jet and x amount of church auditorium. The ball is in your court weigh all options with the critical mind and you will come up with the right answer, you can even do the common 360 challenge and the end of the challenge, follow the love YOURSELF before your neighbour as written in the bible. Now enough of the preaching.

I will definitely pay my rent, for sure no matter how many times the pastor preach and how many people tell me how much miracle that will be missed for not paying tithe. I personally don't believe that, I believe tithe was created in the bible to help the poor not to enrich the rich.

Remember it is your thought and no matter the decision you take make sure you don't pass the blame basket as Adam did when he eat the bible.

Best of luck with whatever decision you make.

Oboy,

Sure you are a Christian??

Intstead of taking the matter to God in prayer, youre bringing it to Nairaland for discussion,
If you dont believe in it, why deceive yourself to pay it, or feel guilty not paying it,

How much is the money sef? Two years rent, See how we limit ourselves!! Pls tell us how much it is, that is too much for JEHOVAH JIREH, the provider to give a hundred fold,

Funny thing is thing is if you really serve God your pastor does not need to compel you to pay your tithe, It should be automatic,

The commandments of God are summarised into two:

THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART , WITH ALL THY MIGHT, WITH ALL THY SOUL AND WITH ALL THY STRENGTH(AND MORE THAN YOUR RENT)


THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.

How many people have made billions and are now penniless?? Countless,

Forget pastor and do your duty as a christian, God does not need your money, He needs the sacrifice of your heart,

Those who sow in tears shall reap in Joy, (Psalm 126:5)

Pay your rent, then after 2 years, you'll be on your knees praying to Him for provision,

But our God is merciful and a God of Love, I'll pray for Him to open your eyes to see His Glory,

Abraham waited for a child for about 90 years, then God gave him a child.
That same God now told him to sacrifice that only child.
He had realised that if God gave before, He will give again, and if He does not give, He will still be God.Abraham is called father of the faithful simply because he believed God, and that was counted for him as righteousness.
Immediately we realise that God does not need our money, we will be sober.
if we do not allow ourselves to be used by God ,He will use someone else[flash=200,200][/flash][/font]

I will tell a story to butress my view point.
I attend one of the biggest churches in Portharcourt. In the early years of the church,when cash was scarce, a friend was providing 20litres of petrol for evening service. On a certain day he was angry that no one else was willing to "support" him in the provision of the petrol.
As he was thinking about this and was angry, he looked up and behold a member of the church known as a "pepper grinder" was clutching a 20 litres keg of petrol.
Reality then dawned on him.
If you are not willing to be used by God, He will use somebody else.
Pls pay your thite and trust God,even if he does not provide for the rent still trust him[font=Lucida Sans Unicode]

Pastor will come and go, but God remains.
Praying for guidiance now is not needed because obedience is better than sacrifice.
Rather, pray for provision after paying the thite.
In times past, we had been in this type of situation and we erred, but now we know better.

pls pay your thite now