For the future of anybody to be present here and Counterfeit the above verses from the the so-called book word of god.

JOHN 26:52 And jesus said unto him,put up again your sword into his place,for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." all muslims in the world will perish in hell becos they think carrying swords and killing innocentlives wiill take them to heaven,NO! IT WILL TAKE THEM TO ETERNAL DESTRUCTION.but those who recieve jesus wiil make the kingdom of GOD[HEAVEN].john3:3"and jesus said unto him,except a man be born again,he cannot see the kingdom of GOD." did this sort of blessed words ever proceed out of the mouth of mohammed?no it did not and will never becos mohammed is dead and forgotten but my JESUS is alive!he died and rose up the third day.

- Isaiah, Chapter No. 7, Verse No 14, says, prophesying of…‘The coming of a person who will be born to a virgin - his name shall be Emmanuel.’ They say… the Christians - it refers to Jesus Christ peace be upon him. Born to a virgin - the Hebrew word there is ‘amla’, which means not ‘a virgin’- ‘a young lady.’ The word for ‘virgin’ in Hebrew is, ‘baitula’, which is not there. Even if you agree - we are using concordance - we agree… ‘Virgin’… ‘Virgin’ - No problem. It says… ‘He will be called Immanuel.’ No where in the Bible is Jesus Christ peace be upon him, is called as Immanuel - Unfulfilled prophecy.

vedaxcool:

- Isaiah, Chapter No. 7, Verse No 14, says, prophesying of…‘The coming of a person who will be born to a virgin - his name shall be Emmanuel.’ They say… the Christians - it refers to Jesus Christ peace be upon him. Born to a virgin - the Hebrew word there is ‘amla’, which means not ‘a virgin’- ‘a young lady.’ The word for ‘virgin’ in Hebrew is, ‘baitula’, which is not there. Even if you agree - we are using concordance - we agree… ‘Virgin’… ‘Virgin’ - No problem. It says… ‘He will be called Immanuel.’ No where in the Bible is Jesus Christ peace be upon him, is called as Immanuel - Unfulfilled prophecy.

It's true sha, but Sir, do you know the meaning of 'Immanuel'?

0@ italo

Don't let him mislead you; it is more complicated than that and even 'alma' does/can mean virgin. Do some more study on the subject. An example: the Septuagint which was compiled way way before the Christian era translates it to a Greek word that is widely reckoned to mean virgin ---- even though some will argue that even that word can be used e.g. to mean maiden.

EDITED I have found a link with a useful simplified discussion (though the discussion can be 'heavier or more 'scholarly')

http://www.secondexodus.com/html/jewishcatholicdialogue/virginbirth.htm

By the way, what single word can be used for "virgin" in:

1. Yoruba
2. Igbo
3. Hausa

chakula:

For the future of anybody to be present here and Counterfeit the above verses from the the so-called book word of god.

^^^Pity you slave of al-ilah. Do try to write English so that we can understand you, not in the disjointed incoherent and barely literate style of the qur'an. From now till the Day of Judgment you will not understand unless the Father reveals it to you. You do not understand the glory or power of YHWH, instead following after a demonic god that "meets" with your own expectations of what god is. But the word of God is clear:

1 Timothy 3:
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Unless you believe that Jesus is Lord: you will surely perish in your sins.

[b]John 3:
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.  12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.  14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:  15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.  16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.  17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.  18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.  19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.  20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.  21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.[/b]

Those who saw Jesus appear in Benin City have no use of the arguments in this thread. . . or of any other argument whatsoever. . .

Arguments and reasoning somehow pale into insignificance when Jesus is encountered. . .

@Aletheia: « #198 on: Today at 03:12:07 PM »

Quote from: chakula on Yesterday at 10:35:10 AM
For the future of anybody to be present here and Counterfeit the above verses  from the the so-called book word of god.
^^^Pity you slave of al-ilah

It is Al Ilah if you intend not to write Allah, just like you refused to write Yahweh out, as below. Are you afraid that you will perish by merely writing out the name?

Do try to write English so that we can understand you,

For a smart man, you could have assumed that english is not his first language, since there are other languages on earth. And many who do not speak or write or understand english do well. English is not all that ends all.

not in the disjointed incoherent and barely literate style of the qur'an.

It is Qur'an, even if I have to beat it down into your memory. At least you have improved. Thank God. Someday, soon you may actually discard disbelief. The Quran is a prose. Maybe thats why you think it is disjointed. Am sure the more digestable Poetry writings may be also difficult for you to unserstand, too.

From now till the Day of Judgment you will not understand unless the Father reveals it to you.

Is there a father without a mother?No. But there cou be a mother without a father. This is an established fact. Ask the people who go to sperm banks.

You do not understand the glory or power of YHWH

We get it. In the OT He was just One God. But in NT He became 3 parter; one dying as a son, getting many of his own prophesies wrong. while as a ghost slept with his own mother to produce himself as a son who cried out to himself as in my God Eloi, my God Eloi, instead of myself or my partnerself. Abeg go sedon,

instead following after a demonic god that "meets" with your own expectations of what god is.

Tell me how a person who says "I seek the protect of my Creator against the acursed demon, and or In the name of God Who creates, The Most Beneficient, The Most Merciful, is demonic?

But the word of God is clear:
1 Timothy 3:
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

I thought you will quote God Yahweh. But then it is Timothy you quoted. Is Timothy God, Yahweh or is Timothy the mouth piece of God, Yahweh, if he is not a Prophet/Messenger who is a mouth piece? Where is his revelation; Gospel, too? I thought the Gospels belong to Jesus? Youtube viewing assignment for you; An old Bible found in Palestine confirms the Quran story True - Islam is right about Essa (PBUH).

Unless you believe that Jesus is Lord: you will surely perish in your sins.

At least we cant say that ony the muslims think that their religion is right. So your telling us that we will go to hell unless we worship a man is a testimony to your idolatry.

John 3:
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

According to this, Jesus rejected te witness (believabiity), of the companions who were around him as long as he preached the Gospel. Now tell me how can Jesus accept your witness who came hundreds of generation later, with belief that he is God, when he said he was a servant sent by God?

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?[/quote[This confirms what I said, above.

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

The Bible said Elijah ascended to heaven. ELijah existed before Jesus. Which statement is correct from the Bible?

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

This verse actually supported my opinion of the immediate above. And at the same time discredit the son of man who said he came from heaven, when everyone knew that he came from his mother's womb, like the rest of us. Adam and Eve came from heavens, where they were created, resided in Paradise before they fell for the suggestive lies of Satan, which were the reasons they were sent out and to the earth where they descended to have their off spring, the Plan of God all along, brought about by perfect process.

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.   16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Who is the speaker here? Jesus or somebody else? Did Jesus say this, calling himself son of God when he already said he was a servant and cried out "my God, my God, forsaken me"? ALetheia, you need to start analysing your materials before posting. its bad enough that you believe what you belief, but should you make us go to errors, too?

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.   18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Aletheia, who is the wife of YHWH that bore Him the begotten son? I need name man.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Was there no light before Jesus? YHWH revealed Torah to Moses. Was Torah not light? YHWH revealed Psalm to David. Was Psalm not light? YHWH says that Abraham is His Friend. Was Friendship of YHWH not light? YHWH saved people from flood in the company of Noah. Was that not light? YHWH saved people from rain of brimestorm through Lot. Was that not light?

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.  21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I worship God that wants me to keep my evil deeds secret from men, while I seek His Mercy and Forgiveness in private. Thats a noble way that my Lord God Almighty Creator prescribed to me. Glory to Him.

@Italo: Whats the meaning of Immanuel?

How relevant is the meaning going to justify for the failed prophesy of the Bible, since no one was ever called Immanuel, ever?

nopuqeater:

Who is the speaker here? Jesus or somebody else? Did Jesus say this, calling himself son of God when he already said he was a servant and cried out "my God, my God, forsaken me"? ALetheia, you need to start analysing your materials before posting. its bad enough that you believe what you belief, but should you make us go to errors, too?

Aletheia, who is the wife of YHWH that bore Him the begotten son? I need name man.

Was there no light before Jesus? YHWH revealed Torah to Moses. Was Torah not light? YHWH revealed Psalm to David. Was Psalm not light? YHWH says that Abraham is His Friend. Was Friendship of YHWH not light? YHWH saved people from flood in the company of Noah. Was that not light? YHWH saved people from rain of brimestorm through Lot. Was that not light?

I worship God that wants me to keep my evil deeds secret from men, while I seek His Mercy and Forgiveness in private. Thats a noble way that my Lord God Almighty Creator prescribed to me. Glory to Him.

^What a pity. You have a false concept of God, man and sin. For all your posturing and grandstanding: you know that you are not certain of salvation - a word that only appears once in your qur'an. You know that al-ilah has ordained that you will surely enter Hell, but you are in no wise certain that you will exit that place. Quit the striving and struggling and come to the only One who can give you rest for your soul - Jesus of Nazareth.
In one of our previous encounters I asked you some pertinent questions but till date you have evaded answering them.

How is Perfect Justice and Perfect Love reconciled?

Sorry, I forgot you can't answer that since al-ilah is but a capricious despot who knows nothing of love and cannot even save his slaves from the Fire. There is difference between those who know God and those who have only heard of Him. Disciples of Jesus have experienced the love of God and know Him because they have a living relationship with Him. Disciples of Jesus know for a certainty that their sins are forgiven and that they have Life eternal.
You on the other hand have only heard about a certain counterfeit god, that you strive to please by your works but you can't be certain of ever actually pleasing and thus escaping punishment, considering that even his prophet was unsure whether he as going to hell or not!

II Corinthians Chapter 5
[17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [18] And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Enigma:

0@ italo

Don't let him mislead you; it is more complicated than that and even 'alma' does/can mean virgin. Do some more study on the subject. An example: the Septuagint which was compiled way way before the Christian era translates it to a Greek word that is widely reckoned to mean virgin ---- even though some will argue that even that word can be used e.g. to mean maiden.

EDITED I have found a link with a useful simplified discussion (though the discussion can be 'heavier or more 'scholarly')

http://www.secondexodus.com/html/jewishcatholicdialogue/virginbirth.htm

Dont worry about me, I'm just fooling around. What do you do when a blind man is arguing ferrociously with you that grass is a colour other than green. After giving him reason and explaining to him why that it's green and he refuses, I think it's best you just tell him, 'okay, I think you're right, it's actually red like you said, I can see it properly now'. Or what do you think Enigma?

@ Chakula

Where are bible evidence to show that Jesus never claimed those things which you mentioned. I want to respond to some of them.

@italo

I think with some people if you seem to 'agree' with them on their falsehood, they will start beating their chest that oh yes you have agreed that they are right and they will be telling others that even you agree with them. Thus, what I will do when I tire of arguing with them is to say "No, it is not red, it is green; however, I am happy to leave you to continue thinking it is red; I will simply continue to see you as wrong!" That way, there will be less room for doubt or misrepresentation of where you stand.

@Aletheia; « #202 on: Yesterday at 11:47:37 PM »

Quote from: nopuqeater on Yesterday at 04:38:55 PM
Who is the speaker here? Jesus or somebody else? Did Jesus say this, calling himself son of God when he already said he was a servant and cried out "my God, my God, forsaken me"? ALetheia, you need to start analysing your materials before posting. its bad enough that you believe what you belief, but should you make us go to errors, too?

Aletheia, who is the wife of YHWH that bore Him the begotten son? I need name man.

Was there no light before Jesus? YHWH revealed Torah to Moses. Was Torah not light? YHWH revealed Psalm to David. Was Psalm not light? YHWH says that Abraham is His Friend. Was Friendship of YHWH not light? YHWH saved people from flood in the company of Noah. Was that not light? YHWH saved people from rain of brimestorm through Lot. Was that not light?

I worship God that wants me to keep my evil deeds secret from men, while I seek His Mercy and Forgiveness in private. Thats a noble way that my Lord God Almighty Creator prescribed to me. Glory to Him.

And in all of the below, you did not answer a single one from the top. here is a chance for you to try, once more. now i will approach your below, InshaAllahu Ta'ala.

^What a pity. You have a false concept of God, man and sin.

God is One, being the Creator. Man is from creation of God. Sin is the disobedience of God's Commandment on man.God by His Own Will Alone forgives the sin of whichever He Wills.

For all your posturing and grandstanding: you know that you are not certain of salvation

Salvation to you is not going to Lake of fire, not punished in Hell but admitted into Paradise is it for me. Which one is clearly direct and certain?

- a word that only appears once in your qur'an.

The Quran is literally littered with admission of Muslims into Paradise and prevented from being punished in the Fire of Hell, while this is not the case with Christianity from the words of the Quran. In Yoruba language, we say OOgii, the Igbo language says Akammu, and the Hausa language says Nuunu, I think. Is one name of the same product less in value to the other name? The English man says Triumph and the Yoruba man say Segun: are they different in meaning? Allah says that Paradise is for Muslims, and you say that it does not mean salvation. What does it mean then? And what is the essence of your salvation relative to Paradise?

You know that al-ilah has ordained that you will surely enter Hell,

No. You lie as usual. I put forth Surah Maryam verses 53 to 93 for you on a thread you raised the issue. You need to read it and see that those who will be thrown into and be punished in Hell Fire, by and large are the non Muslims. Allah says there will be a bridge over hell, where all mankind will have to pass, a decree already made. It is like brth of a child or death of a person; they must happen before it is truly "FINISHED" in the borrowed word of the Biblical Jesus.

but you are in no wise certain that you will exit that place.

But Quran 19 verses 59 through 63 gives me the news you are denying! Read it: 19:59; But[b] there came after them successors who neglected prayer and pursued desires; so they are going to meet evil -[/b]

19:60; Except those who repent, believe and do righteousness; for those will enter Paradise and will not be wronged at all.

19:61; [Therein are] gardens of perpetual residence which the Most Merciful has promised His servants in the unseen. Indeed, His promise has ever been coming.

19:62; They will not hear therein any ill speech - only [greetings of] peace - and they will have their provision therein, morning and afternoon.

19:63; That is[b] Paradise, which We give as inheritance to those of Our servants who were fearing of Allah .[/b]



]quote]Quit the striving and struggling and come to the only One who can give you rest for your soul - Jesus of Nazareth.

[/quote]He did not know the future. Besided, you said he died. My God is never dying.



[quote]In one of our previous encounters I asked you some pertinent questions but till date you have evaded answering them.

Maybe I did not see it. I ma a human being you know. I can of myself do nothing, but what is permitted of me by my Creator.

How is Perfect Justice and Perfect Love reconciled?

In the courts the accused will beg the Judge to temper Justice with Mercy. I prefer mercy over Justice, hence I prefer Perfect Mercy of God over His Perfect Justice. Allah say in the Quran; “Those whom Allah wills to guide, He opens their breast to Islam. Those whom He wills to leave straying, He makes their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies; thus does Allah lay abomination on those who refuse to believe.” (6:125)

For our guidance, we have to know how to earn Allah’s love. In the Qur’an Allah Allah (Subhanahu wa ta’ala) tells us two ways by which He bestows His love upon us:

“Say: ‘If you do love Allah follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your sins for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.’” (3:31)

“On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness will (Allah) Most Gracious bestow Love.” (19:96)

Sorry, I forgot you can't answer that since al-ilah is but a capricious despot who knows nothing of love and cannot even save his slaves from the Fire. There is difference between those who know God and those who have only heard of Him. Disciples of Jesus have experienced the love of God and know Him because they have a living relationship with Him. Disciples of Jesus know for a certainty that their sins are forgiven and that they have Life eternal.
You on the other hand have only heard about a certain counterfeit god, that you strive to please by your works but you can't be certain of ever actually pleasing and thus escaping punishment, considering that even his prophet was unsure whether he as going to hell or not!

II Corinthians Chapter 5
[17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [18] And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Continuing on Aletheia: As a human who was on a roll, I was also in haste. Human nature.

Sorry, I forgot you can't answer that since al-ilah is but a capricious despot who knows nothing of love and cannot even save his slaves from the Fire.

I post verses of love from Quran that does not need the blood of anything to achieve it. “Say: ‘If you do love Allah follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your sins for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.’” (3:31)

“On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness will (Allah) Most Gracious bestow Love.” (19:96)

There is difference between those who know God and those who have only heard of Him.

You happen to be from the group that only heard of Him, your reason for taking a man for God.

Disciples of Jesus have experienced the love of God and know Him because they have a living relationship with Him. Disciples of Jesus know for a certainty that their sins are forgiven and that they have Life eternal.

Disciples are less than Apostles of jesus. The Apostles saw him and knew him to say he was a servant sent by God. The Nigerian churches used to have an Apostolic branch/denomination. I never heard of Disciple Church/denomination. Look again, at the top. I have shown that the Love of Allah is without spilling and splashing of human blood as if to worship something of the alter. Now the Love of Allah is Ultimate.

You on the other hand have only heard about a certain counterfeit god, that you strive to please by your works but you can't be certain of ever actually pleasing and thus escaping punishment, considering that even his prophet was unsure whether he as going to hell or not!

I Nopuqeater, a muslim is certain by Allah that I will enter Paradise of Allah and not Hell that He prepares for non Muslims. Look again at the top and you will see that a muslim like me who worships is loved by Allah and is guaranteed to receive Mercy instead of Justice. Hence you lie about the Messenger and Prophet Muhammad (AS), the one Allah oves the most of Mankind.

Surah Kahf: Verses 100 to 110 clearly explain my condition a believer in Islamic Monotheism and your condition a disbeliever of it.

100. And on[b] that Day We shall present Hell to the disbelievers, plain to view[/b],

101. (To) Those whose eyes had been under a covering from My Reminder (this Qur'an), and who could not bear to hear (it).

102. Do then those who disbelieve think that they can take My slaves [i.e., the angels, Allah's Messengers, 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), etc.] as Auliya' (lords, gods, protectors, etc.) besides Me? Verily, We have prepared Hell as an entertainment for the disbelievers (in the Oneness of Allah Islamic Monotheism).

103. Say (O Muhammad ): "Shall We tell you the greatest losers in respect of (their) deeds?

104. "Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life while they thought that they were acquiring good by their deeds!

105. "They are those who deny the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of their Lord and the Meeting with Him (in the Hereafter). So their works are in vain, and on the Day of Resurrection, We shall not give them any weight.

106. "That shall be their recompense, Hell; because they disbelieved and took My Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and My Messengers by way of jest and mockery.

107. "Verily! Those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah Islamic Monotheism) and do righteous deeds, shall have the Gardens of Al-Firdaus (the Paradise) for their entertainment.

108. "Wherein they shall dwell (forever). No desire will they have to be removed therefrom."

109. Say (O Muhammad to mankind). "If the sea were ink for (writing) the Words of my Lord, surely, the sea would be exhausted before the Words of my Lord would be finished, even if we brought (another sea) like it for its aid."

110. Say (O Muhammad ): "I am only a man like you. It has been inspired to me that your Ilah (God) is One Ilah (God i.e. Allah). So whoever hopes for the Meeting with his Lord, let him work righteousness and associate none as a partner in the worship of his Lord."

II Corinthians Chapter 5
[17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [18] And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

What did Jesus Christ, son of Mary say of himself? Here it is; Oh Israel, your Lord is my Lord and He is One God. Another; Of my own power, I can not do anything. Yet another: I am a slave sent to you by Our Lord God. Aletheia, where is your head?

@Aletheia: « #185 on: August 06, 2010, 02:36 AM »

@Topic: Do you really need to list 10 reasons why you believe that Jesus is not God? Just 1 irrefutable reason would have sufficed.
Well here is 1 reason why your prophet Muhammad is a false prophet.

Reason #1. Deut 18:20
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

Using your Biblical yardstick, there is no evidence that Muhammad said anything that was not commanded on him by God. Just one thing. That will be enough. Of course we have given many reasons Jesus could not be God Almighty: From the pages of the Bible Jesus said and I paraphrase: of my own power i cant do anything. your Lord is also my Lord and He is One God. Jesus your servant who You God send. my God, my God, why have you left me alone? Mark you, our conversation is not saying that Jesus son of Mary is not a Messenger, Prophet elect of God, and or that Muhammad is God, but that Jesus is not more than Prophet messenger to his clan nations and Muhammad is a Messenger after him to the whole of Mankind.

Muhammad in his own words: "I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken."(Al-Tabari 6:111)
Recorded by Al-Tabari, himself a Muslim and one of Islam's earliest historians.

The definition of Hadith itself is explanation by words of the essence of Quranic verse. Therefore, a true and correct Hadith must never differ from Quran and the specific verse it explains.[quote][/quote]If I were Al Tabari, who truly believed the above, I will leave Islam immediately. Did he leave Islam? The answer is no. Why then, with all his scholarship and critical thinking? HE must not have believed the written statement, since he was not an Islamic scholar but a historian who simply brings up materials for scholars of hadith, the Muhadhithans to explain. A case in point; a man in the time of Prophet Muhammad (AS) used to ask questions about sins and horrible situations. His friends were so shocked and taken by his actions, that they decided to confront him and asked why and try to discourage him. In their quest, he responded to them that the only reason that he asked those types of Questions, was that the others side of them he will know are permissible for him to do.
Another scenario of my own experience. As a yoruba man, my cousins are like my own brothers and sisters. When i learnt that some people marry their cousins I was shocked. So I asked of its permissibility. What I got is that though it is permissible, but it is not necessary as if it most be your choice if you fear that the blood relationship may create problems. If I did not ask, I would have been a fool for it, yet my relationship with my cousins remain the same, while others can marry theirs, I have the whole of the world women as pool of wifey material, excluding my cousins and what i do not want.

In the Quran Allah says of Muhammad who did not hide the incidents of "the frowning, and the marriage to Zaynab" that "If you had not performed your errant as I had instructed you, I would have cut you by the jugular vein as making great punishment on you in this life";

And when Our signs are recited to them, clear signs, those who look not to encounter Us say, 'Bring a Quran other than this, or alter it.' Say: 'It is not for me to alter it of my own accord. I follow nothing, except what is revealed to me. Truly I fear, if I should rebel against my Lord, the chastisement of a dreadful day.' S. 10:15 Arberry

it is the speech of a noble Messenger. It is not the speech of a poet (little do you believe) nor the speech of a soothsayer (little do you remember). A sending down from the Lord of all Being. Had he invented against Us any sayings, We would have seized him by the right hand, then We would surely have cut his life-vein. S. 69:40-46 Arberry

These two verses were revealed on Muhammad (AS) many years before he died at the age of 63. In those days, 63 years was not actually spring chicken when life expentancy was even less than 24 years. How then did he fabricate things about Allah, when after the verses above many years of revelation came down on him through Malaika Jibril (AS) and Allah says of Muhammad and Muslims in the last verse of Surah Fajr; Enter my Paradise? Surah 89 verses 15 to 30 are brought out for your witnessing:

15. As for man, when his Lord tries him by giving him honor and gifts, then he says (puffed up): "My Lord has honoured me."

16. But when He tries him, by straitening his means of life, he says: "My Lord has humiliated me!"

17. Nay! But you treat not the orphans with kindness and generosity (i.e. you neither treat them well, nor give them their exact right of inheritance)!

18. And urge not on the feeding of AlMiskiin (the poor)!

19. And you devour inheritance all with greed,

20. And you love wealth with much love!

21. Nay! When the earth is ground to powder,

22. And your Lord comes with the angels in rows,

23. And Hell will be brought near that Day. On that Day will man remember, but how will that remembrance (then) avail him?

24. He will say: "Alas! Would that I had sent forth (good deeds) for (this) my life!"

25. So on that Day, none will punish as He will punish.

26. And none will bind as He will bind.

27. (It will be said to the pious): "O (you) the one in (complete) rest and satisfaction!

28. "Come back to your Lord, Well-pleased (yourself) and well-pleasing unto Him!

29. "Enter you, then, among My honoured slaves,

30. "And enter you My Paradise!"

Below is a response of a Muslim to the Al Tabari historian statement that you argue so desperately to make us accept. The Al Tabari opinion is not only different from the personality of Muhammad (AS) who was known as the truthful and honest by all Makkand. But completely different and opposes the Quran which says Muhammad was a Noble and Honored Messenger and Prophet of his Creator, never saying anything of his own desire (Surah Najm:53 verses 1 to 4:

1. By the star when it goes down, (or vanishes).

2. Your companion (Muhammad ) has neither gone astray nor has erred.

3. Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

4. It is only an Inspiration that is inspired. ), and Aisha says that he was the living, walking and talking Quran: Enjoy the read, below with referencing website:

“I have fabricated things against God” is a Lie Against Prophet Muhammed Peace Be Upon Him.
October 16, 2008 — Nora's Sensation

Some pathetic non-Muslims use unreliable quotes from unreliable books. They quote the following from Al-Tabari’s book:

norasensation./, /i-have-fabricated-things-against-god-is-a-lie-against-prophet-muhammed-peace-be-upon-him/ - Cached - Similar

“I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.”
~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari 6:111)

Response:

This is in fact such a weak and stupid argument made by some Christians , and they desperately and shamelessly use it to disprove the prophethood of Muhammed.

For starter, who is Tabari ?! Tabari was a HISTORIAN not a scholar, so he does not verify the narrations as we will read in the introduction of his book. Anyway, Islamic,

dexmond:

@ Chakula

Where are bible evidence to show that Jesus never claimed those things which you mentioned. I want to respond to some of them.

Below is the evidence qouted form the so-called book word of god for you to go through.
A "GOD" UNLIKE THE GOD


A Hungry "God": "And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was
afterward an hungered." (Matthew 4:2), "Now in the morning as he returned
into the city, he hungered." (Matthew, 21:18), "and on the
morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry." (Mark, 11:12)

A Thirsty "God": "(He) saith, I thirst." (John, 19:28)

A Sleepy "God": "He was asleep." (Matthew, 8:24), "He fell asleep" (Luke,
8:23), "And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow."
(Mark, 4:38)

A Weary "God": Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on
the well." (John, 4:6)

A Groaning "God": "He groaned in the spirit, and was troubled." (John,
11:33), "Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave."
(John, 11:38)

A Weeping "God": "Jesus wept." (John, 11:35)

A Sorrowing "God": "And (he) began to be sorrowful and very heavy." (Matthew
26:37). "Then saith he unto them, my soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto
death." (Matthew, 26:38)

A Hysterical "God": "And (he) began to be soreamazed and to be very heavy."
(Mark, 14:33)

A Weak "God": "And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven,
strengthening him." (Luke, 22:43)

Islam is the only religion which teaches the existence of a PERFECT God. A perfect God means that there is no sharer in His Nature and His Attributes:

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; and there is none like unto Him." (Holy Qur'an, 112:1-4)

Allahu Akbar.

chakula:

Islam is the only religion which teaches the existence of a PERFECT God. A perfect God means that there is no sharer in His Nature and His Attributes:

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; and there is none like unto Him." (Holy Qur'an, 112:1-4)

How Mary Conceived and Delivered "God". Mary conceived Jesus like any other
woman:

"The days were accomplished that she should be delivered," (Luke,
2:6) which means that she went through all the normal stages of pregnancy.


Nor was her delivery any different from other expectant mothers: "And she
being with child cried, travelling in birth, and pained to be delivered."
(Revelation, 12:2)

chakula:

How Mary Conceived and Delivered "God". Mary conceived Jesus like any other
woman:

^^Stop lying. Even your qur'an with it's burden of lies does not say Mary conceived Jesus like other women.

chakula:

"The days were accomplished that she should be delivered," (Luke,
2:6) which means that she went through all the normal stages of pregnancy.

^^This only means that the pregnancy was carried for 9 months like other pregnancies; making the point that God Incarnated fully as the Man Jesus of Nazareth:

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us

chakula:

Nor was her delivery any different from other expectant mothers: "And she
being with child cried, travelling in birth, and pained to be delivered."
(Revelation, 12:2)

^^^*Sarcastic*Yeah, We've been claiming for years that Mary just sneezed and the baby "popped" out.

@Aletheia: Please tell me about this [verse]. Is it from God or the though of somebody else? Who is speaking here? How many people if more than one? Name them, please and whats the meaning and is this a revelation of statement of personal desire?

2 Corinthians 13:2-3

On my return I will not spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others, since you are demanding proof that Christ is speaking through me.

@ Aletheia,

You are talking to 'ROCKS' which neither listen nor understand. I fell victim too and it took me a while to realise.

Jesus is not God. God cannot die or be killed. There is only one God. Saying he is the Son of God and God makes no sense whatsoever. People are really good at being poets. Those that says that God is three in one the father, God the son, and God the holy spirit no not what they speak. if u take one away from the other that one is 1/3 out of the three and cant be anything else. God is only 1 god.

Jesus never said he was God. and if you needed to believe he was God to reach salvation he would have made it bright and clear by saying "I AM GOD" many times. Also Jesus never said anywhere in the Bible, im not talking about the other stuff said by paul because paul was not of God, that he he came to die for the sins of the world. He said I solely came to save to lost tribe of Israel. The israelites went away from God's teachings so Jesus was sent to bring them back to the Word of God but the Jews rejected him and had him crucified. Even up till this day the Jews still reject Jesus. Jesus was the messiah to the Jews/The Jewish Messiah.

Go in the Bible And pull out the Verse( which is in red, jesus' words are in red) where Jesus says he came to die for the sins of the world and so that all will be forgiven no matter what as long as they confess Jesus. Show the verse that says trinity(God the father, God the son, and God the holy spirit) and dont give me the verse where it say baptize in the name of the father,son, and holy spirit. I said God THE father, God THE son, and God THE holy spirit.


There is no such thing as mother of God. God does not have a mother. God cannot beget and neither is begotten.

@Italo: Please explain 2 Corinthians 13, verses 2 and 3.

I have no understanding of it. Do you in the textual language of the speaker or speakers.

nopuqeater:

@Aletheia: Please tell me about this [verse]. Is it from God or the though of somebody else? Who is speaking here? How many people if more than one? Name them, please and whats the meaning and is this a revelation of statement of personal desire?

2 Corinthians 13:2-3

On my return I will not spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others, since you are demanding proof that Christ is speaking through me.

^I have 2 answers for you, but you will not like them based on your a priori position.
#1. 2 Tim 3:16-17. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works
[Of course the qur'an is not scripture]
#2. 2 Pet 3:15-16. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
[Of course you unlearned in the scriptures do wrest 2 Corinthians 13:2-3, as you do the whole scriptures to your own destruction]

May the Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Most High have mercy on you this Ramadan.

@Aletheia: I wonder if you realized that you have said that the Bible is the WORD of Yahweh.

In the above verse of 2 Corinthians 13 verses 2 and 3, one sees that at best, the speaker was Paul who Jesus was spealing through. And Jesus had been declared by those who knew him better, himself and his disciples as servant of Yahweh, Jehovah and from his own lips; Eloi.

How then that it Jesus was speaking through Paul, the servant who was speaking through a person he did not know now becomes Yahweh, Jehovah or Eloi?

The other conclusion is that all of a sudden, the same meek Jesus is now talking through a very mean man, or was it that Jesus turned mean, when we investigate the following part of the verse; I will not spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others? Can you in your entire life accept the meek Jesus somehow turned mean Jesus through a man he never knew? Is this verse or at least this portion a make up, personal opinion giving the impression that Jesus was with this man who cant substantiate it, except beating people down, scaring people and discrediting anyone that stands in his way?

One of those people was Peter the Rock, who Paul confronted to his face that he was a liar!

Who should be the liar; the one who knew Jesus all the 3 years he preached his Gospel he was sent with, or the one who never met him? If you think that the above verse meets the criteria that Paul laid down in 1 Timothy 3 verses 16 and 17, then when he says Jesus was speaking through him, is that the inspiration of God or that of Jesus the servant sent and called back already? Which other part of the Timothy verses the 2 Corinthians 13 2 and 3 fits? Are you not aware that Paul had nothing from Jesus but a complete make up to cover his track, elevating a man to all of a sudden become a God? The man who said "my God, my God, " and then said it is finished?


This is unbelievable that God is taken as a dead entity. Thats not God, but a god.

Why Jesus is not God? simple He said My Lord My Lord Why Have you forsaken me

If he was God he would have said Myself! Myself!! why have I forsaken Me.

Shekanan!

@Vedaxcool,

In addition to what you have said The Country of Origin of Jesus was Bethlehem of Judaea and also his Occupation is Carpentary inwhich he was inherited from his father Joseph as the Bible said, fallowing by this evidance from the Bible and if it is true how infamy to the Christians holding a person with above charecteristics as a god?

"Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king.  (Matthew, 2:1)

"Jesus was a carpenter by trade." (Mark, 6:3),

"and the son of a carpenter." (Matthew,  13:55)

"Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king.  (Matthew, 2:1)

"Jesus was a carpenter by trade." (Mark, 6:3),

"and the son of a carpenter." (Matthew,  13:55) Now I know God is not a carpenter.

vedaxcool:

"Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king. (Matthew, 2:1)

"Jesus was a carpenter by trade." (Mark, 6:3),

"and the son of a carpenter." (Matthew, 13:55) Now I know God is not a carpenter.

Interesting thread ain't it ? Pimpu et al, the more you look the less you see. That is the nature of the divinity of the GodHead. You can't analyse and constrict Jesus Christ, the Mighty God into your cranium. Don't even attempt it cos you might explode . But I wonder why it does bite you that Christains are contented with the mystery of Godliness. We ain't forcing anything down your throat are we ? Just let us be since from all ramifications, the One we serve is in way in the class of your Prophet and Allah. Jesus Christ is by all means superior to any deity you are fronting for and that is incontestible. We dont have issues at all cos our God is bigger than your mind can conceive. We dont struggle to defend him. Call Jesus whatever you like, call him weary, call him anything, it does not diminish him. it does not get us angry, it does not turn us into belligerent people, cos, like Paul, when He knows its time to arrest you, nothing can stop Him, but then, i only hope, you will come back here anr share with us, the powerful testimony of your conversion. i have seen that happen countless times. You can't beat the power of Jesus to save.

I wish you all the best.

Peace.