I admit that I do not have the time to respond to every single nonsense you write here so don't get worked up about popping in once in a while.

My position on the middle east issue is crystal clear and I will not be drawn into an open ended narrow minded discussion with you.

To refresh your memory here are my views from day 1, they do not need being repeated on every page to become visible.

1. Israel should withdraw to the pre 1967 borders

2. A palestinian state should be created that will co-exist side by side the State of Israel with the 2 states having the right to exist

These have been my positions and if you cannot live with them just jump into the nearest lake.

The killing of any innocent person is wrong whether such killing is doen by an individual, group or state.

You cannot have peace without justice, euity and fairplay.

The statements above summarizes my positions on anything that has to do with Israel/Palestine.

Afam:

To refresh your memory here are my views from day 1, they do not need being repeated on every page to become visible.

1. Israel should withdraw to the pre 1967 borders

2. A palestinian state should be created that will co-exist side by side the State of Israel with the 2 states having the right to exist

I will ignore ur usual immature rants and go straight to the meat of your post which are old rehashed and unfortunately unrealistic views: here's why,

1. Isreal withdrawing to 1967 borders as a condition for peace presupposes that there was peace BEFORE 1967. We all know there was NO peace in 1948, certainly NO peace in 1956, there was NO peace in 1964 when the PLO conducted its first raid into Isreal neither was there peace in 1967 when the supposed lands were "siezed" by Isreal!

What borders where the palestinians fighting for prior to 1967? In particular what borders where Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, Syria e.t.c. fighting for?

2. A palestinian state was created according to the UN partition plan of 1947! Isreal accepted the plan, palestine and her arab brothers chose to go to war!

What is your next excuse?

@Davidylan,

I wasn't asking for your views on my comments as you are obviously lacking in knowledge as regards these issues.

When I want to read the views of a religous bigot and half understood perspectives I shall let you know.

Enjoy!

Afam:

@Davidylan,

I wasn't asking for your views on my comments as you are obviously lacking in knowledge as regards these issues.

When I want to read the views of a religous bigot and half understood perspectives I shall let you know.

Enjoy!

If i claimed i was expecting a concise and articulate rebuttal i would have been decieving myself. In case you forgot this is a forum where comments can be debated on not a private journal. Anyone reading this can easily pick out those with "barely understood perspectives".

Isreal doesn't want peace? Well,what can they do when the other entity is disintegrating due to violence inspired by the the religious extremists-Hamas. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1929392.ece

Isreal ceased its occupation of Gaza,look kow Gaza is today for Palestinians

These are the folks(Hamas) who are supposed to be Isreal's peace partners-http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article1929366.ece

Sixteen months ago Hamas transformed the political landscape of the Middle East by emerging as the dominant force in the Palestinian parliamentary elections. It then had an opportunity, in principle, to end its defining refusal to recognise Israel and represent the Palestinians in peace talks. Only the most deluded optimists believed it would happen, but even the most hardened realists have reason to be dismayed at how events since have actually transpired.

Not only does Hamas still call for the destruction of Israel in its rhetoric; it has torn up the powersharing agreement that was brokered in Mecca with Fatah four months ago, ignored successive Egyptian-sponsored ceasefires, and allowed its military wing to rampage through Gaza with the apparent intention of taking full control of the overcrowded territory by force.

Our so called anti-semitic friends do not read such, not that they don't want to, it just seems they possess the inability to decipher truth from a world of blind support of extremism and hatred directed at the Jews.

They have been beautiful arguments made even at the first page of this thread which should have closed this arguments but our friends can go as far as denying or ignoring realities.

I believe quite a number of Nigerians are fast learning from Bush whose modus operandi is to obey every command (no matter how silly) or get attacked (even if based on lies).

What is the business of I-man/4Play in how the Palestines have managed Gaza after the ISraeli withdrawal? Must you be interested in the type of soup every woman is cooking in her kitchen?

I do not believe that people come here to support extremism on the part of Hamas or even celebrate suicide bombings because it will be a wrong thing to do.

But it seems that anyone that does not blindly support Israel in this matter (regardless of mistakes or killings of the innocent) automatically becomes a supporter of extremism.

Who sets the standards? Is killing of innocent people by a particular group justified while other groups are condemned?

These are the real issues not the religous bigotry that has tainted an otherwise very clear issue.

I did everything to log on to nairaland this morning and yes - its there. I see I-man beat davidylan to the news in Gaza. Predictable.
I see I-man has modified his position to reflect the present situation in Palestine. He's now saying the Jews won't negotiate with the Palestinians because of the situation in Gaza. Did the Jews negotiate when there was peace in Gaza. Why is Israel and its supporters always looking for new ways of deferring the road map? They always find a minute excuse, today Arafat, tomorrow Hamas etc.
And who created this enviroment of tension in Gaza?
Since Gaza is helmed in on all sides by the almighty IDF, is Israel not trying to make Gaza the Guantanamo bay of the middle east?
Is Israel any more secure today than yesterday? "Those who make peaceful change impossible, makes violent change inevitable". The sad truth is, expect more rockets to rain down on Israel as a result of this new development.

@Afam
When I saw this tragedy on the news, I could picture I-man and davidylan having in front of them kobe beef or foie gras (no cowfoot and eba) and well truffled brioche bun, (yum yum) time for them to watch the Palestinians kill themselves.
Even though we don't support Israel in its desire to wipe out the Palestinians, at least we don't hold a morbid view of Israel. We would not rejoice in the destruction of Israel unlike our Likud (Oops!) Nairaland users . If supporting Palestinians against the American funded almighty IDF makes me an extremist so shall it be.

P.S
The world must be full of extremist since over half of the world supports the Palestinians.

Okay then, yeah, what made this Israel vs Palestinians? This always has been Israel vs extremists (and their sponsors) who have high jacked the plight of the Palestinians in their quest for eliminating Israel.

Tornadoz:

If supporting Palestinians against the American funded almighty IDF makes me an extremist so shall it be.

That's real cute. Are we finally getting down to the real issue here? That you are angry the US backs Israel? So if the US backed Iran, Syria against Israel, you would then "support" Israel? You know what don't answer that.

Tornadoz:

I see I-man has modified his position to reflect the present situation in Palestine. He's now saying the Jews won't negotiate with the Palestinians because of the situation in Gaza. Did the Jews negotiate when there was peace in Gaza. Why is Israel and its supporters always looking for new ways of deferring the road map? They always find a minute excuse, today Arafat, tomorrow Hamas etc.

Of course,Isreal and the Palestinians have had a history of negotiations stretching back decades-Oslo,Camp David,Wye River,e.t.c .

We can go down history.Do you remember the 3 NOs? After the 6 day war,Isreal offered the Arabs land they had just captured in return for peace,The Arab reponse at the Khartoum summit was-No recognition of Isreal,No negotiations,No peace with Isreal(The 3 NOs).40 years later,a Benin man is now informing us that Isreal never wanted negotiations.

And who created this enviroment of tension in Gaza?

That's right!Blame the Jews.Don't the Palestinians have a mind of their own.Must they kill each other because Isreal "created an environment of tension"?   The blame lies solely on the warring parties,especially Hamas.Why didn't Hamas respect respect the ceasefire agreement they were party to?How come they were shooting aand killing Palestinian peace protesters who were marching for peace?I thought it was only Isreal that doesn't want peace.

When the UN offered its partition plan in 1947, the Isrealis accepted the arabs chose the long hard road to war and lost!

60 yrs later some hypocrites claim it is the Isrealis that dont want peace!

Barak though a good man was generally perceived as all talk.
You were also economical with the truth  the intifada
started with a certain man through his provocation
on the Temple Mount I think his name is Sharon

There are 2 ways of looking at this matter.Let me  articulate the way I tend to view it.The events of 2000 brought about a fundamental re-alignment of my views of the conflict.Prior to the intifada,I was like most people,very pro-Palestinian.

I followed closely,the negotiations between Arafat and Barak at Camp David.The negotiations seemed to be breaking new grounds as both sides,particularly Isreal,seemed to be prepared for the 1st time,to pull back from traditional "red lines".For instance,Barak offered 90% of the West Bank and East Jerusalem,100% of Gaza and some sort of international sovereignty over the Temple Mount.Barak was also prepared to accept the Palestinan claims to a right of   return for refugees subject to agreement over the precise numbers  that can return per annum.Many people say this wasn't generous enough,but from a pragmatic standpoint,this was as far as Barak could go.

While negotiations were going on,there were reports that the Palestinians were preparing a new intifada(long before Sharon made his visit to Sharam Esh-Sharif).The thinking was that such an uprising would help extract more concessions from Isreal.A new uprising,the thinking went, would prompt heavy handed Isreali response(a PR disaster for Isreal) causing the international community to put pressure on Isreal .

Isreal chastened from its experience in Lebanon,where it had just pulled out,will give more concessions.The Arabs interpreted Isreal's pullout of from Lebanon and their offer to withdraw from most of the occupied territories as a sign of weakness.Arab TV,we had Arabsat then,was filled with callers and pundits claiming that Isreal's pullout from Lebanon was proof that violence was the best way to defeat Isreal.

Then,I dismissed all reports of a planned new Palestinian intifada as Isreali propaganda.A few months later,the intifada started.A lot of people say that the intifada was started simply because Sharon visited the Temple Mount.That's arrant nonsense.Why would the Palestinians start a new campaign of violence just beacuse one opportunistic politician,Sharon, visited the Temple Mount?   Why jeopardise all that landmark negotiations at Camp David,just because of Sharon?

Its either the Palestinians planned it or they are irredeemably irrational.I think its the former because I had heard long before Sharon's visit,that they were looking to launch an uprising.Sharon's visit was just a smokescreen for what they had long wanted.Unfortunately for them,it backfired.Sharon,of course,knew that the Palestinians,were planning an uprising and calculated presciently,that a symbolic act (visiting the Temple Mount) could be used  by the Palestinians as an excuse to do what they always planned,launch an intifada.He calculated rightly,that such an uprising will harden Isreali opinion and be a springboard for him to become PM.The rest is history.

They say the Palestinians "never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity".2000 was a classic example.I feel the root cause of the Palestinian malaise,is an unwilligness to live side by side with Isreal.They still harbour dreams of destroying Isreal.Remember it was only till 1989,that the PLO officially recognised Isreal's right of existence.Till then,there position was that Isreal must be destroyed.

When people say that Isreal must return to the pre-1967 borders.They forget that in 1967,Isreal offered withdrawal but the Arabs responded with the 3 NOs-No Recognition,No Negotiations,No Peace. We also know that prior to 1967,there was no peace anyway.As noted by C.May, Nasser noted then,that a state of war against Isreal had been “in effect since 1948,” the moment modern Israel was born amid the carnage of World War II, on lands ruled by the Ottoman Turks for most of the past four centuries. It would continue, he and the leaders in Khartoum implied, until Israel was destroyed.

The biggest obstacle today is the same obstacle we had 40 years ago as embodied in the Khartoum Resolution,the refusal of Arab and Muslim leaders to countenance a state as their neighbour,which is not ruled by Arabs or Muslims.Untill that changes,there is no hope for longlasting peace.

[size=14pt]Welcome to the Islamic republic of Hamastan[/size]

While we blame Isreal for not wanting peace, those they are expected to negotiate with have proved they themselves cannot maintain peace within their own ranks.

The will of Iran and Syria being done by force at the expense of the Palestinians themselves. Just like with Hezbolla and the Lebanese last year.

Hello!. . .Ehud?. . .yes,its Hamas. . . can we discuss your destruction?

aha. . . that you Hamas? I thought we told you we didnt want peace?  By the way, congratulations on the new islamic republic of hamastan.

@davidylan

the fact that you're debating does not mean you have to be totally polarised. You can still make moderate statements like "Israelis are mainly jews". There are israeli muslims and christians.

Stop making statements like:

"Israelis are jews".

When in fact jews make up 70% of the Israeli population. Shebi you are the same individual that was ranting "No More Taliban" on a different thread?

There's so much under the sun. You can't go about believing that things are either black or white.

I want to also put it to you that the Romans did not persecute Jews for persecution sake, it was because the Roman empire took up christianity and still the Jews went about portraying Jesus as a scam that used his knowledge of Jewish prophesies to dupe people by portraying himself as the Messiah. This Christian persecution took place around AD 300 and AD 400 during the reign of Constantine under charges of HERESY. Don't commute my statement into different piece in history. So Israelis do hold someone culpable for persecuting them and it is the Christians.

I came here to tell both muslims and christians that are taking sides based on religious sentiments that that their judgement is misguided and that:

CHRISTIANS ARE NOT JEWS AND JEWS ARE NOT CHRISTIANS.


That also brings me to the issue of Hitler himself. Hitler was a staunch christian who hated Jews, mostly after reading the book "Jews and their lies" written by Martin Luther whom needless to say, also hated Jews too. And not even forgetting Pope Pius XII, Hitler's co-Holocauster who also hated Jews and had no problem seeing 6 million Jews dead.
May I add though that the Pope rescued 3000 jews from Europe and sent them to Brazil. Of course only after they'd renounced judaism and become baptised into Catholism.

I'm sorry to have to bore you all with too many history reminders, including those that sound outrageous, but the point is, the Jews have love for neither Muslims nor Christians.


And finally, davidylan desist from your "either black or white" view of life. That kind of "either here or there" philosophy is what is referred to by George Bush as EXTREMISM!

@denex

You don carry your aversion to facts come this thread again?Hitler staunch Christian?Pope Pius "co-holocauster"?Abeg,don't go off on a tangent,stick to the issue of the Isreali/Palestinian conflict.Thanks 

@I-man

no mind me O! I dey try show somebody say Jews no send muslims or christians. Maybe I took it too far.

@davidylan

Israeli are not Jews! Doesn't that sound kinda like you? You like decisive, conclusive and generalised statements like that.

Anyway, hope you now agree that Israelis are mostly Jews.

this thread shld have been a complete statement if the poster had put it this way; isreal and fattah do not want peace and hamas wants peace.
hamas, is in two war fronts viz; home(fattah-abbas) and foriegn(isreal).
hamas has succeeded but in a few days time, we will be able to analyse their success, relate it to the welfare of the palestines and compare it to what they are preaching and then we will know whose interests are been protected.
on the other hand, abbas has appointed an independent person(a finance minister) as the new PM so at least one will believe there is an internal war in palestine as well as in lebanon.
God will be the Judge here.

denex:

"Israelis are jews".

At least you agree the land of Isreal is a jewish nation. The effects of immigration is what makes it difficult to comclusively declare that all Isrealis are Jewish.  

denex:

Shebi you are the same individual that was ranting "No More Taliban" on a different thread?

Perhaps you confuse me with TayoD. This is what happens when men hyperventilate when responding to simple queries.

denex:

There's so much under the sun. You can't go about believing that things are either black or white.

I dont sit on the fence and "moderate" is another more sophisticated way of saying "denial". They mean the same thing. Since my head is not buried in the sands of denial, things for me are either black or white!

denex:

I want to also put it to you that the Romans did not persecute Jews for persecution sake, it was because the Roman empire took up christianity and still the Jews went about portraying Jesus as a scam that used his knowledge of Jewish prophesies to dupe people by portraying himself as the Messiah. This Christian persecution took place around AD 300 and AD 400 during the reign of Constantine under charges of HERESY. Don't commute my statement into different piece in history. So Israelis do hold someone culpable for persecuting them and it is the Christians.

1. Your claim that the Romans "persecuted" the Jews because the Jews went about portraying Jesus as a scam is blatantly false. Well before the birth of Jesus, history records that the Jews were under Roman rule. The first destruction of Jerusalem in AD70 under titus army was as a result of Jewish revolt against Roman rule, the last revolt ended in complete destruction and dispersion of the jews in AD135.

The christian persecution of the jews AS A NATION could not have taken place in AD 300 as Isreal had been laid waste more than 150 yrs earlier.

2. Yes christians did persecute the Jews but isnt it funny that they are not going around bombing the christians and the Germans? Rather it is the moslems doing so happily on their behalf and then turning around to blame the same jews! Isnt that amazing?  

denex:

I came here to tell both muslims and christians that are taking sides based on religious sentiments that that their judgement is misguided and that:

CHRISTIANS ARE NOT JEWS AND JEWS ARE NOT CHRISTIANS.

Many christians are jews and many jews are christians. This statement above is one of the most potent weapons of division that the muslims have long used to pit the christians against the jews. No genuine christian can hate a jew, everything that we believe from the bible to the Messiah came through them.

denex:

That also brings me to the issue of Hitler himself. Hitler was a staunch christian who hated Jews,

This did not warrant a response. Correct urself.

denex:

mostly after reading the book "Jews and their lies" written by Martin Luther whom needless to say, also hated Jews too. And not even forgetting Pope Pius XII, Hitler's co-Holocauster who also hated Jews and had no problem seeing 6 million Jews dead.

Pope Pius was involved in the holocaust?   Where do you get ur history books from? The mosque?

You forget that the moslems too had no problem seeing 6 million jews dead and in fact are in the very process of denying that it ever happened. Ah, who is not aware that the greatest enemy of the Jew was mohammed himself - for proof just read his quran!

denex:

I'm sorry to have to bore you all with too many history reminders, including those that sound outrageous, but the point is, the Jews have love for neither Muslims nor Christians.

Revisionist history reminders you mean?

It is the other way round! It is the muslims who have love for neither jews nor christians. For proof please read the quran!!

denex:

And finally, davidylan desist from your "either black or white" view of life. That kind of "either here or there" philosophy is what is referred to by George Bush as EXTREMISM!

Are you uncomfortable with my view of life? I thought there was freedom of thought?

Ah lest i forget, why are you silent now that Hamas is slaughtering Fatah members? If it were IDF soldiers wont you have been hyperventilating by now?  

The Palestinian apologists seem to be lost for words about the self defeating actions of the palestinians.Nobody is as good as the Palestinians in self immolation

It is this same freedom of thought that motivated Bin Laden, Genghis Khan and Hitler. Extremism is simply taking things too far.

By the way, whether you specify Nation or Group of individuals, Christians slaughtered and persecuted the Jews far more than anybody ever has and don't think Jews forget so easily.

And is amazing the kind of shambolic statements that come from human beings these days.

MANY CHRISTIANS ARE JEWS AND MANY JEWS ARE CHRISTIANS?!!

Is it possible for one person to have two religions?

It is these kind of pseudological statements that cause me to liken you to that TayoD fellow.

I am not saying genuine christians or muslims should hate jews. What I am saying is they should know jews don't give a hoot about them.

In addition, I think you should know the difference amongst the ancient tribe of Israel, the land of Palestine, and the modern day nation of Israel. Read

www.jesuscentral.com/ji/historical-jesus/jesus-firstcenturycontext.php

But don't stop there O! Read more on your own. Read on Pope Pius and his pact with Hitler. Continuing reading because no knowledge is lost. Read about the institution of Christianity as the official religion of The Roman Empire and what havoc that wreaked on Jews. Just keep on reading. Read till you know that it is crazy to say "many christians are jews and many jews are christians". I'm afraid to sound exactly like you usually do, but NO JEW IS CHRISTIAN! None! Not a single one! Unless that individual is in the Yaba left psychiatric ward.

From "Israelis are Jews", you've jumped to "many christians are jews and many jews are christians". I dey correct you make you no wash hand inside dirty water, you go drink am.

Talking of sitting on the fence, yes that is what peacemakers do. Do you expect the referee to be playing for one of the teams? Is it not insane to bring in Iran or the US to solve this problem, knowing fully well where their allegiances lie? To negotiate peace, we are to sit on the fence. I do not see how you would claim to be on one side of the fence and want to broker peace for two warring factions. Anyway, I believe you have another (PSYCHO)logical explanation for that. So please let's hear it Mr Christian Jew.

denex:

It is this same freedom of thought that motivated Bin Laden, Genghis Khan and Hitler. Extremism is simply taking things too far.

Not true my brother! Bin Laden, Hitler et al DO NOT/ARE NOT motivated by freedom of thought but by ideas of a superior class, race or religion! There is a huge difference. Bin Laden does not believe in FREEDOM of worship.

denex:

By the way, whether you specify Nation or Group of individuals, Christians slaughtered and persecuted the Jews far more than anybody ever has and don't think Jews forget so easily.

1. More than 60 years after the holocaust, have you EVER heard of Jewish terrorists bombing Germany, hijacking Lufthansa aircraft or assassinating top German officials? Rather it is "peaceful" muslims who NEVER went through a holocaust neither suffered the ignominy of losing 6 million people in gas chambers who are doing the very same thing!

2. You subvert history when you make blanket statements such as "christians slaughtered and persecuted jews". The catholic church did and NOT christians (even though the catholics claim to be christians too). Please read the "catacombs" for detailed accounts of how PROTESTANT CHRISTIANS were killed and persecuted by the same catholic church around the same period!

3. More people are killed in a yr by muslims than were killed in the 350 years of the spanish inquisition. This is an incontrovertible fact!

denex:

And is amazing the kind of shambolic statements that come from human beings these days.

MANY CHRISTIANS ARE JEWS AND MANY JEWS ARE CHRISTIANS?!!

Is it possible for one person to have two religions?

It is these kind of pseudological statements that cause me to liken you to that TayoD fellow.

The term "Jew" does not refer to a religion but refers to people born within the land of Isreal! The term "jew" is used just as you would use the terms "Nigerian, Chinese or British"! Do those refer to religions too?
The religion of the jews is JUDAISM!

denex:

I am not saying genuine christians or muslims should hate jews. What I am saying is they should know jews don't give a hoot about them.

- Genuine christians DO NOT hate Jews, infact the evangelical christians are one of the most vociferous group of pro-isreal supporters!

- The statement that "jews don't give a hoot about christians or muslims" is an islamically inspired LIE to justify their morbid dream of annihilating the jewish race. It is fascinating that rather than the jews you claim do not give a hoot about others, it is the MUSLIMS who are campaigning to have the Jews driven into the sea.
Is it a religion that refers to us as apes and pigs that gives a hoot about christians and jews? The same people whose prophet proclaimed that the jews would be annihilated before the end would come?

Before throwing stones at the jews please take a hard long look at your own religion in the mirror! the jews may not give a hoot about christians or muslims but they are not going about threatening to drive us all into the sea!

denex:

In addition, I think you should know the difference amongst the ancient tribe of Israel, the land of Palestine, and the modern day nation of Israel. Read

www.jesuscentral.com/ji/historical-jesus/jesus-firstcenturycontext.php

I looked at the site and it says NOTHING about the ancient and modern land of Isreal. Archeology and history confirms that the ancient and modern land of Isreal remained the same until today! It is from those ancient lands that we get the bible we read today, the torah, the dead sea scrolls and plenty of archeological artefacts that point to that land being the site of ancient Isreal.
The land of Palestine DID NOT exist before AD 135, palestine is NOT an arab name but Greco-Roman, there are NO distinct people, language or culture regarded as palestinians before 1948! Where do you get your ancient land of palestine from?

denex:

But don't stop there O! Read more on your own. Read on Pope Pius and his pact with Hitler. Continuing reading because no knowledge is lost. Read about the institution of Christianity as the official religion of The Roman Empire and what havoc that wreaked on Jews.

The official religion of the Roman Empire till tomorrow is CATHOLICISM! It is not the same as protestant christianity! Dont get yourself tied up in a knot.

denex:

Just keep on reading. Read till you know that it is crazy to say "many christians are jews and many jews are christians". I'm afraid to sound exactly like you usually do, but NO JEW IS CHRISTIAN! None! Not a single one! Unless that individual is in the Yaba left psychiatric ward.

Benny Hinn is a Jew! Go figure!

denex:

From "Israelis are Jews", you've jumped to "many christians are jews and many jews are christians". I dey correct you make you no wash hand inside dirty water, you go drink am.

Many christians are Nigerians and many Nigerians are christians. Does that sound familiar?

denex:

Talking of sitting on the fence, yes that is what peacemakers do. Do you expect the referee to be playing for one of the teams? Is it not insane to bring in Iran or the US to solve this problem, knowing fully well where their allegiances lie? To negotiate peace, we are to sit on the fence. I do not see how you would claim to be on one side of the fence and want to broker peace for two warring factions. Anyway, I believe you have another (PSYCHO)logical explanation for that. So please let's hear it Mr Christian Jew.

1. Real peacemakers do not sit on the fence! It is hypocrites, "moderate" muslims who live in denial that sit on the fence! Real peacemakers adjudicate a matter in all fairness. The referee does not play for the team neither does he go and sit on the bench refusing to sanction a player that commits a foul!

2. Iran is already the problem!

@davidylan

Hmmm. This is new. "catholics claim to be christians too"? You mean catholics are actually not christians? I would like you to send details of this to my mailbox: acenex@yahoo.com
I am tired of reading fiction in a forum for discussing real issues.

CATHOLICS CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN TOO.

That should make it to the guinness book of records as the most outlandish statement 2007. Unless of course you beat your own record before the end of the year.


Again, out of nowhere, you blurt out that Jews are people born in Israel. Ha! That means all the 6 million people born in Europe and killed by Hitler are what? Buddhists?

You also infer that all the millions of people evacuated from Europe and brought to the modern state of Israel are all what?

1) A jew is someone born of a jewish mother or converted into judaism.

2) More recently, someone with only a jewish father is now considered as a jew.

3) The religion of Judaism has nothing to do with location.

4) Judaism is not a type of citizenship.

5) When people say "I am Nigerian", "I am Chinese", "I am British", you cannot say "I am jewish". It is not a NATIONALITY!

If you say being a jew is just like being a Nigerian, then when you say the religion of jews is Judaism, then is the religion of Nigerians nigerianism? Is the the religion of Chinese chinesism? Is the religion of British britism?

Young man, think straight before you type. I have told you to read a lot but you don't want to.


And when you say

"it is a religion that refers to us as apes and pigs"
are you claiming to be a jew? Were you born in Israel? (according to your theory on being a jew).


And since you are still in denial that the land which Jesus was born was known as palestine till the 20th century, and that article earlier was too complex for you to read the topic, I'll send you a simpler text. Something for children learning Bible stories.

www.sundayschoollessons.com/palestin.htm

Please, I beg of you, read a lot and stop churning out these bombastic stories. Stop unleashing these volumes of fallacies.

@ denex, so much huff and puff and not much else from u. i'm hungry and i need to eat, i'll be right back to answer you.
nice to see u only select the stuff u reply to.

What about your "NO JEW IS A CHRISTIAN" nonsense? Forgot to reply to that one too?

Ah the term "jewish" is not a nationalty? what does it mean then? a religion?

denex:

@davidylan

Hmmm. This is new. "catholics claim to be christians too"? You mean catholics are actually not christians? I would like you to send details of this to my mailbox: acenex@yahoo.com
I am tired of reading fiction in a forum for discussing real issues.

CATHOLICS CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN TOO.

That should make it to the guinness book of records as the most outlandish statement 2007. Unless of course you beat your own record before the end of the year.

Are wahhabis muslim too? What of Sunnis, shiites, surfism, ahmadiya? Dont they all profess to worship the same allah? Protestant christians do not regard catholics true "christians" because of several practices that do not conform to biblical principles. Of course i do not expect you to understand this. Most muslims like you just yell "christians" without a single clue what it truly means to be one!

denex:

Again, out of nowhere, you blurt out that Jews are people born in Israel. Ha! That means all the 6 million people born in Europe and killed by Hitler are what? Buddhists?

You also infer that all the millions of people evacuated from Europe and brought to the modern state of Israel are all what?

1) A jew is someone born of a jewish mother or converted into judaism.

2) More recently, someone with only a jewish father is now considered as a jew.

3) The religion of Judaism has nothing to do with location.

4) Judaism is not a type of citizenship.

I agree with you here. Perhaps i did not explain myself well. The words "Isreali" and "jews" are used interchangeably. Isreali may be a broader term to mean citizens of Isreal either by birth or naturalization.
A jew connotes a stronger term and usually refers to someone born of a jewish mother according to traditional law.
Thus you can be a jew if u were born by a jewish mother even outside of Isreal.

Those "evacuated" from Europe where Jews who migrated to Europe after the Roman conquer of Isreal in AD 70 and 135! The usual muslim game is to portray them as Europeans who migrated to occupy arab lands. A fallacy of the highest order!

Judaism is NOT a citizenship but a religion. I thought i mentioned that earlier.

denex:

5) When people say "I am Nigerian", "I am Chinese", "I am British", you cannot say "I am jewish". It is not a NATIONALITY!

If you say being a jew is just like being a Nigerian, then when you say the religion of jews is Judaism, then is the religion of Nigerians nigerianism? Is the the religion of Chinese chinesism? Is the religion of British britism?

Lol, so much arguing borne out of ignorance. Is judaism derived from the root word jew? Judaism is the religion of the jews that dates as far back as biblical period based on old testament laws handed down through Moses to the Isrealites. It is called Judaism based on the name of the third son of Jacob "Judah". the lineage of Judah produced the kings of Isreal up until the land was divided into two, the northern kingdom being Judah having Jerusalem as capital. Jesus Christ came from the lineage of Judah and that is where the religion got its name. It has nothing to do with the name "jew"!

denex:

Young man, think straight before you type. I have told you to read a lot but you don't want to.

It will do u good to do the same, you don't make any sense trying to argue from the false islamic point of view.

denex:

And when you say

"it is a religion that refers to us as apes and pigs"
are you claiming to be a jew? Were you born in Israel? (according to your theory on being a jew).

No i am not a jew by natural birth, but if you had any idea about the "christianity" you shout so much about you would know that we are as well jews by spiritual birth. Of course how can you know that? 
At least the jews u claim do not give a hoot about christians and muslims did not refer to u as a cow and monkey in their torah

denex:

And since you are still in denial that the land which Jesus was born was known as palestine till the 20th century, and that article earlier was too complex for you to read the topic, I'll send you a simpler text. Something for children learning Bible stories.

The name palestine was first used in AD 135 by Emperor Hadrian of Rome. Isreal had been in existence more than 4000 years before then!


Here is the question you have been avoiding: Is palestine an arab word?

@davidylan

I stated in my earlier post that anybody that claimed that he was a christian and a jew should be cast into the Yaba left psychiatric ward.

Now you have told me that person indeed is Benny Hinn.

A man who claimed that 9 different individuals make up the trinity?

A man that claimed that Jehovah originally created man to swim like fish or fly like birds.

That same man who comes around to say he's a Christian Jew when his father is actually Greek and his mother is an Armenian?

I believe this man fits the profile of someone missing from the afore mentioned Yaba left psychiatric ward. I don't blame you. It is because you do not know who Taofeek really is? Oh you didn't know his real name is Taofeek?


Jewish is an adjective that describes a person that practices Judaism.

Jesus! You think I now agree that that there are Christian Jews. I thought you'd learnt your lesson and didn't see any use causing you any more embarrassment on that.
Ha! Christian Jew ke? Out on the loose? Next thing somebody will come out and say he's a Muslim Christian! Yes I remember one fella like that in UNIBEN during my final year days. Leslie; he claimed that "Muslims are the real Christians". I thought he was on this craze alone until I started seeing people that claimed there were Christian Jews. So right now, am keeping my mind open just in case I come across a Muslim Christian.

My friend go and read. Do you think that bread is better than knowledge? You want to eat when you adamantly refuse to read. Go and read jare so that you can stop sowing falsehood on the internet. The internet that used to be a trusted source of information, people like you have now, corrupted that integrity. "Christian Jews". How did that sound to you when it echoed in your brain the very moment you conjured that term up?

By the way you've not answered my question. When you say:

"it is a religion that refers to us as apes and pigs"

Do you mean you are a jew? And that you were born in Israel?
You see this "we" thing is why I decided educate people about the clear differences between the christian and jewish religions. So that muslims will not wish jews death just because they believe jews are same christians that they have beef with, and jews should not wish muslims death because they believe the jews are part of their "we".

So Mr Christian Jew, were you born in Israel that you have now begun to "we" yourself with jews?

I now believe there is a lot you don't know about even yourself. All I can do however, is to continue to read. Bring out your birth certificate and read. Get a copy of your parents' marriage certificate and read. Just keep reading. I repeat "no knowledge is lost".


Why do you keep shifting the question I'm avoiding? First it was whether christians aren't really jews, now it's about whether palestine is an arabic word. Palestine is definitely not an arabic word. And I don't remember anybody previously asking me that question that you claim I was dodging.

@I-man

you know this individual davidylan well. I am not happy the way you watch him drowning in this ocean of ignorance without offering him at least a straw. The man is just an inch from going round the bend and you won't correct him.

Please help me. If not just for his sake, then at least help me help him. The other message he sent made me scream so loud that my neighbours started complaining.

Thank you very much for your anticipated cooperation.

Yours faithfully,
NEX.

@ denex

So much sound and fury signifying nothing. An ordinary google search on "christian jews" can be done by a 5 yr old to debunk ur baseless rants. I'm sure you've never heard of christian jews and messianic jews eh. Keep banging ur head against the headstone.

I find it funny that you, a muslim, would be struggling so hard to prove "clear differences between the christian and jewish religions". What really is in it for you? Last i checked even christians are not spared the eternal "beef" that "peaceful" muslims have towards unbelievers/apes/pigs/infidels.

You know NOTHING about either christianity or judaism and yet you claim to be showing clear differences between the two. Is it possible for an illiterate to show a clear difference between chemistry and biology?
Why the almost desperate attempt to pit christians against jews? Is there an ulterior motive behind your vague and baseless claim that the jews do not give a hoot about muslims and christians?

You are not a christian so u dont understand what i mean when i refer to the term "spiritual jews". i wont waste my time explaining to you. For you were not grafted into the natural olive tree by reason of the salvation that is in Christ Jesus.
I am a child of God and a Joint heir with Christ according to the scriptures - although my natural birthcertificate does not have "God" as the name of my biological father.