@davidylan

Lebanon is currently being suplied with US weapons to fight the islamic millitants in Beirut!

Now you know why the US is hated. Instead of being a peacemaker, they'd rather arm the Lebanese to kill themselves. This is why he's having troubles on all fronts.
Check this out, the Italians are trying in absentia some CIA operatives, who went to a friendly country to abduct an Italian citizen.

This is an internal matter between the Lebanese factions,you can't compare this internal conflict with last years war when Israel deployed the best the IDF could muster. Would you invite the UN to the Niger delta, considering there's a lot o killing there?

So because its an "internal matter",we should keep quiet about civilian casualties?Should it matter whether a civilian died at the hands of Jews or at the hands of fellow Arabs?

Tornadoz:

They want peace but not at any prize , can't see Syria taking the bait. Why now for the moribund govt of Ehud Omert?
A govt that have very little support at home, a govt whose foreign minister is actively gunning for the number one position. First reaction by Syria would be to accept, but the small print makes for uncomfortable reading. For instance why should Syria stop its support for Hezbollah? Is Israel
thinking of moving back into Lebanon again? Am sorry but the Jewish state can't be trusted.

Who appointed Syria the "protector of Lebanon"?Last time I checked,Syria is not wanted in Lebanon and most Lebanese want Hezbollah disarmed.

Tornadoz:

@davidylan
Now you know why the US is hated. Instead of being a peacemaker, they'd rather arm the Lebanese to kill themselves. This is why he's having troubles on all fronts.
Check this out, the Italians are trying in absentia some CIA operatives, who went to a friendly country to abduct an Italian citizen.

This is confusion of the highest order!   Now the "hatred" has shifted to the US for supplying Lebanon with weapons to defend its territorial integrity? So are we to hate the market woman who sells your wife a kitchen knife if she ends up using it to kill you?

WHO ARE THOSE ARMING THE ISLAMIC MILITANTS? Where you not the same person praising the Syrian support for hezbollah? And what has the Italian trial of CIA operatives got to do with this? Another attempt to avoid your own confused babble?

@I-man
Why did you remove the link you provided earlier.? Am sorry I have the link and will be visiting that topic on a later date. Israel can run but it can hide.

Tornadoz:

@I-man
Why did you remove the link you provided earlier.? Am sorry I have the link and will be visiting that topic on a later date. Israel can run but it can hide.

Which link was removed ?    Its only Saturday evening . . . .  

@davidylan

This is confusion of the highest order! Grin Grin Now the "hatred" has shifted to the US for supplying Lebanon with weapons to defend its territorial integrity? So are we to hate the market woman who sells your wife a kitchen knife if she ends up using it to kill you?

WHO ARE THOSE ARMING THE ISLAMIC MILITANTS? Where you not the same person praising the Syrian support for hezbollah? And what has the Italian trial of CIA operatives got to do with this? Another attempt to avoid your own confused babble?

Is it strange that the imperialist US was the same country supplying Israel last year? The CIA reference was for you to add to former friends who are becoming foes. And the cold war is about to restart.

@I-man
Don't worry I have the Telegraph link.

Tornadoz:

@davidylan Is it strange that the imperialist US was the same country supplying Israel last year?

This is totally irrelevant and is one of your weather-beaten attempts at deflecting having to deal with your confused babble.

There is nothing strange in a marketwoman selling kitchen knives to housewives, nurses, muslims, christians e.t.c. as long as she makes her profit!

The question you are stridently avoiding is one you raised urself. You claimed the blame was on Isreal last yr since she was using US made weapons to attack hezbollah using "home made weapons" (a claim that has shown u up to be ignorant of what you are loudly posting about). Now that it has been proven that the same Lebanon is being armed by the US you turn around to start chasing shadows about the US being hated for supplying weapons to others to kill themselves!

Here is what you need to defend: now that the US is also supplying Lebanon as they supplied Isreal last yr are u prepared to start reprimanding the "disproportionate display of force" from the Lebanese army and start weeping profusely for the innocent women and children being killed as you did last yr?

Tornadoz,
am not troubled with names but i am troubled with inabilities to face facts.
among all these conflicts with Isreal, could you please mention in a case where it is isreal versus another government.
the only clear case of such was palestine under arafat and for all we know, arafat has been linked with terrorism all the days of his life as he had one or two occassions been sentenced to death for terrorist acts that was before he became president.
i have asked here before and nobody answered that. what do you suggest isreal will do for peace to reign? 1967 baundries is out of it as it is not in the demands of the hamas led government. do you think isreal should withdraw totally as the hamas is calling for or should isreal be wiped out of the surface of the earth as the iranian president is calling for?
let us be giving our opinion on this not calling names.
what is the solution in your terms?
in the lebanese current war, there is no terms like human shield even when the terrorists are using palestine refugee camp. fattah and hamas are on daily war yet we fail to accept a fact here.
in lebanon, factions fighting government are termed terrorists while when to fight with isreal, it becomes a crime to call them terrorists.
how long do you think it will take all the anti-isreali groups to wipe out isreal as they have set as their target.
UN has on several occassions reconfirm that self defence is allowed and isreal will always defend herself from any foriegn agression.
if i had mentioned isreali arms capacity, it was just to reconfirm how calm they could be even with such possession as i urge you to tell me which among the middle east countries can be this calm with such abilities.
it will be simple for you and your group to tell us that UN is stupid and foolish while you are the wisest men ever in history.
i wish i could find my ways into your minds to know exactly your preffered solutions to middle east crises since you are not saying it out.
i want to ask again, if isreal does not want peace, who wants peace?

@davidylan

The question you are stridently avoiding is one you raised yourself. You claimed the blame was on Isreal last yr since she was using US made weapons to attack hezbollah using "home made weapons" (a claim that has shown u up to be ignorant of what you are loudly posting about). Now that it has been proven that the same Lebanon is being armed by the US you turn around to start chasing shadows about the US being hated for supplying weapons to others to kill themselves!

Here is what you need to defend: now that the US is also supplying Lebanon as they supplied Isreal last yr are u prepared to start reprimanding the "disproportionate display of force" from the Lebanese army and start weeping profusely for the innocent women and children being killed as you did last yr?

Am afraid you still failed to grasp the logic in my post. The US is flaming the embers of war in the middle east. On one hand it helped Israel to destroy Lebanese infrastructure, now it is helping Lebanon to destroy itself. Can't you see what the insidious evil mind in Washington is doing. Lebanese fighting Lebanese is an internal matter. Why are you not calling for UN involvement in the Niger Delta? Is this because it is an internal matter. I would like to hear from you when the US decides to send plane load of arms to the delta.

@I-man

So because its an "internal matter",we should keep quiet about civilian casualties?Should it matter whether a civilian died at the hands of Jews or at the hands of fellow Arabs?

Am still waiting for your comments regarding federal high-handed approach in the Niger delta.

Once again as on several occasions, the Palestinian fundamentalists have made those defending them here look foolish.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6737969.stm

Earlier on Saturday, Palestinian militants used an armoured jeep to burst through the Kissufim border crossing, and attacked a nearby Israeli army post, leading to a gun battle.

One Palestinian was killed. There were no Israeli casualties.

The attack was launched by two Palestinian militant groups, Islamic Jihad and al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade.

A spokesman for Islamic Jihad said they had planned to abduct an Israeli soldier but were foiled by the arrival of Israeli helicopter gunships.

The cross-border attack was the first since Palestinian gunmen abducted an Israeli soldier, Corporal Gilad Shalit, almost a year ago.

Yep these guys sure want peace.

Tornadoz:

@I-manAm still waiting for your comments regarding federal high-handed approach in the Niger delta.

Whether Nigerian civilians die due to the actions of the Nigerian army or the Camerounian army,shouldn't and doesn't make a difference to me.You, on the other hand,are suggesting that we should distinguish between death as a result of an "internal matter" and deaths as result of external interference-a distinction without a difference designed to mask what is essentially an opportunity to bash Isreal .

If your primary concern is the lives of civilians,it shouldn't make a difference whether it was the Lebanese Army or the Isreali Army that killed them.However,Isreal bashing is your primary concern.Perhaps,we should keep quiet about Darfur,afterall,its an "internal matter"

Tornadoz:

@davidylan
Am afraid you still failed to grasp the logic in my post. The US is flaming the embers of war in the middle east. On one hand it helped Israel to destroy Lebanese infrastructure, now it is helping Lebanon to destroy itself. Can't you see what the insidious evil mind in Washington is doing. Lebanese fighting Lebanese is an internal matter. Why are you not calling for UN involvement in the Niger Delta? Is this because it is an internal matter. I would like to hear from you when the US decides to send plane load of arms to the delta.

You cant blame anyone for not grasping the "logic" in your post. It is just not there. Would you blame Russia for flaming the embers of the Nigerian civil war since it supplied the Nigerian army the weapons used to defeat Biafra?
The same terrorists obtain their sophisticated weapons from Iran and Syria and YET we have not heard anyone (including you) blaming these two for fanning the embers of war in the middle east! Infact Hezbollah is an arm of the Iranian revolutionary army!

You goof when you attribute the war in Lebanon to merely Lebanese fighting Lebanese! The Lebanese army is actually fighting PALESTINIAN TERRORISTS/MILITANTS using palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon as cover! No one complained when the Russians sent weapons and pilots to help the Nigerian side during the Biafran war. If the Niger Delta rebels decide to BUY US weapons, who are we to blame them?

@chidichris
Having just returned from church where I was confronted with a very poignant sermon, it was nice for you to post your latest comic masterpiece.
It was comical to read your latest effort to
justify the apartheid regime in Israel.
I needed cheering up, thanks again.

"am not troubled with names but i am troubled with inabilities to face facts."

What are the facts? Mmm lets see

"among all these conflicts with Isreal, could you please mention in a case where it is isreal versus another government."

If its not Israel versus Iran/Syria then its Israel versus Hamas/Hezbollah.

"i have asked here before and nobody answered that. what do you suggest Israel will do for peace to reign? 1967 baundries is out of it as it is not in the demands of the hamas led government. do you think isreal should withdraw totally as the hamas is calling for"

Did it escape you or did you glossed over the fact that the stumbling block between the Israeli govt and Hamas is, Hamas refusal to recognize the state of Israel and Israel's refusal to go back to pre 1967 border?

"should isreal be wiped out of the surface of the earth as the iranian president is calling for?"

I have said over and over again that its mere rhetorics and saber rattling. Iran does not possess the means of wiping out Israel.

"what is the solution in your terms?"

1Isreal to withdraw to pre 1967 borders
2Hamas to recognize Israel
Its as easy as that.

"in the lebanese current war, there is no terms like human shield even when the terrorists are using palestine refugee camp."

These "Terrorist" as you called them are Palestinians, and they live in those camps.

"factions fighting government are termed terrorists while when to fight with isreal, it becomes a crime to call them terrorists."

When they fight Israel they are freedom fighters=fighting to have a country of their own.

"UN has on several occassions reconfirm that self defence is allowed and isreal will always defend herself from any foriegn agression."

Assassinating Palestinian political leaders, wanton destruction of houses and firing live ammunition on stone throwing children can hardly be justified as self defense.

"it will be simple for you and your group to tell us that UN is stupid and foolish while you are the wisest men ever in history."

I still have faith in the "American" controlled UN even with all its flaws. Can I remind you Israel together with America has broken more UN resolution than any nation.

"i wish i could find my ways into your minds to know exactly your preffered solutions to middle east crises since you are not saying it out."

My solution was explained earlier.

"i want to ask again, if isreal does not want peace, who wants peace?"

I would refer you to G Levy's article for answers and add these also.
1While we are asking the de facto Hamas govt to recognize Israel, Israel is busy taking delivery of the latest American made fighter jets, is this peaceful?
2No initiative will work as long as we have neoconservative control Israel and America. These people are opposed to any resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict on any terms other than having an Israeli general ruling Palestine.
3 Americans also mistakenly believe every Jew supports the govt's apartheid policy, the American media never report the Israeli opposition like G Levy, when they become fairer the truth will be open.
4Jordan and Egypt has hardly attacked Israel since a peace treaty was signed by both sides, but Jewish paranoia would make us believe that they would be wiped out as soon as Palestine gets independence. They forget what Palestine wants is sovereignty and human rights.
5We all know With the almighty IDF, Israel's war with the Palestinians is a colonial war rather than a war of survival. This is why all men of good taste from the Pope to Nelson Mandela will never support Israel.
6 The US should stop financing this expansionist policy of creating a greater Israel.
7Stop pumping out 49% of its daily water requirements from the West Bank if they want peace.

My friend after reading the above facts and still not convinced, then get I-man and davidylan to send you some of their resources on distorting historical facts.

Did it escape you or did you glossed over the fact that the stumbling block between  the Israeli govt and Hamas is, Hamas refusal to recognize the state of Israel and Israel's refusal to go back to pre 1967 border?

There is no moral parallel between Isreal's position and that of Hamas.Isreal accepts that it has to withdraw to most of the pre-67 borders,the question is where the boundaries lie.Hamas on the other hand,rejects Isreal's right of existence and calls for Jews to be wiped out as its official position.

I have said over and over again that its mere  rhetorics and saber rattling. Iran does not possess the means of wiping out Israel.

May not possess it now but working towards it.Besides,it has sufficient biological/chemical weapons to cause extensive damage but lacks delivery system.

1Isreal to withdraw to pre 1967 borders
2Hamas to recognize Israel
Its as easy as that.

It not easy if Hamas claims that their religion demands the removal of infidels from "Muslim Holy Land".This is not a position you can negotiate around.

When they fight Israel they are freedom fighters=fighting to have a country of their own.

A suicide bomber who is member of an organisation that believes in wiping Jews off the map is not a mere freedom fighter but a terrorist.A person who believes in racial extermination is not fighting for freedom.Freedom to exterminate?

this tornadoz sef, funny man.  

Tornadoz:

"among all these conflicts with Isreal, could you please mention in a case where it is isreal versus another government."

If its not Israel versus Iran/Syria then its Israel versus Hamas/Hezbollah.

Was this not the same man who told us hezbollah and hamas could not be held responsible for acts of terrorism since they were not a state? Now that it is convenient he has decided to equate them to the Syrian/Iranian state.  

Tornadoz:

Did it escape you or did you glossed over the fact that the stumbling block between the Israeli govt and Hamas is, Hamas refusal to recognize the state of Israel and Israel's refusal to go back to pre 1967 border?

This is a symptom of Isreal bashers. You keep hanging on to these false rhetoric about Isreal's refusal to return to pre-1967 borders as a condition for peace when in actual fact Hamas main goal is NOT land but the complete destruction of Isreal. Return to pre-1967 borders as a condition for peace presupposes that there was peace with Isreal before 1967, however one wonders what borders the palestinians, Iraqis, Jordanians, Egyptians, syrians were fighting for when Isreal was attacked in 1948 and 1967 before these "contentious borders" were seized by Isreal!

Just in case you have forgotten, here is Hamas REAL INTENTIONS:
Article 7: , the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of God's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, God bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O slaves of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."

of course you will only continue your selective reading and arguments.

Tornadoz:

I have said over and over again that its mere rhetorics and saber rattling. Iran does not possess the means of wiping out Israel.

Yeah, lets wait until they develop long range nuclear missiles aimed at achieving Ahmedinajad's goal of driving Isreal into the sea.

Tornadoz:

1Isreal to withdraw to pre 1967 borders
2Hamas to recognize Israel
Its as easy as that.

Please see above and keep decieving urself.

Tornadoz:

These "Terrorist" as you called them are Palestinians, and they live in those camps.

You know their addresses?   What a tool.

Tornadoz:

When they fight Israel they are freedom fighters=fighting to have a country of their own.

But when they fight Lebanese forces it is merely an internal affair that we need not worry about?  

Tornadoz:

Assassinating Palestinian political leaders, wanton destruction of houses and firing live ammunition on stone throwing children can hardly be justified as self defense.

Where were your crocodile tears when Syria assassinated Rafik Hariri the Lebanese prime minister? Where were your condemnations when Syria occupied Lebanon for more than 25 yrs?
Where are your crocodile tears for the "wanton destruction" of Lebanese infrastructure during this "internal war" with palestinian millitants?
I commend the Palestinian propaganda, using "stone throwing children" as human shields for the REAL gun totting, rocket launching terrorists was a very smart idea especially for those looking for the slightest opportunity to bash Isreal.

2No initiative will work  as long as we have neoconservative  control Israel and America. These  people  are opposed to any resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict on any terms other than having an Israeli general ruling Palestine.

Remind us again when the Palestinian intifada started  . . . when Clinton was in the White House and Barak was PM.Are they both neo-cons?

Barak offered full withdrawal from Gaza,withdrawal from 90% of West Bank and international control over the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.What happened after that? The Palestinans launched the bloodiest terror campaign in recent memory.It was actually after this that my views changed.Up till then,I used to be like you

@Tornadoz,

You really get plenty energy. These people do not have a mind of their own, they are totally and irredeemably brainwashed and are just religous bigots.

And you only get to see them converge on issues that have to do with Arab, Israel, US, muslims.

Enjoy

Mr "Copy And Paste",na you get mind of your own? You can't even articulate your own views.Please come and post the latest leftist claptrap you found in your email  

There is a sickness in this world and that sickness is a religous ignorance that leads christians to believe Israel is the headquarters or home of the christian nation and the muslims think likewise so they must either support or defy it. Israelis are mainly jews and they hate christians for all the prosecution they underwent from the Church, they have muslims for the ongoing crises.

So you people should stop looking at this problem with religious bias. Try to look at the Israelis as Buddhists and the Palestinians as Hindus and then you might be able to see it is simple man's inhumanity to man.
People are shouting marginalization and oppression yet you cannot feel the pain of fellow oppressed people without first checking if they share the same religious beliefs as you. How then can there be justice on earth?

Afam:

@Tornadoz,

You really get plenty energy. These people do not have a mind of their own, they are totally and irredeemably brainwashed and are just religous bigots.

And you only get to see them converge on issues that have to do with Arab, Israel, US, muslims.

Enjoy

Coming from someone who's only contribution to topics are questionable articles "from my mailbox"! Everyone with a mailbox must have a mind of his own going by your analogy.

We have been brainwashed? What have you done to educate us on the contrary? You "copy and paste" an article and then sit back only to pop up 5 pages later to accuse those with contrary oppinions as being brainwashed religious bigots. So much for those who aim to discuss "issues".

denex:

There is a sickness in this world and[b] that sickness is a religous ignorance that leads christians to believe Israel is the headquarters or home of the christian nation[/b]

Genuine christians regard Isreal as the birth place and the foundation of their faith! It is not religious ignorance but a FACT! Jesus Christ was a Jew, the bible came from Isreal.

denex:

Israelis are mainly jews and they hate christians for all the prosecution they underwent from the Church, they have muslims for the ongoing crises.

1. Isrealis are jews.
2. Isrealis DO NOT hate christians - that is part of the unfounded islamic propaganda that has been going round for years without any basis.
3. If Isrealis are to hold anyone culpable for persecuting them, the Romans who sacked them and destroyed Jerusalem in AD 70 would be the first on their list followed by the Germans. Lest i forget, the roman catholic church persecuted not just jews but protestants all over Europe and North Africa.

denex:

So you people should stop looking at this problem with religious bias. Try to look at the Israelis as Buddhists and the Palestinians as Hindus and then you might be able to see it is simple man's inhumanity to man.

It is impossible to do so when this is part of the agenda of Hamas:

Article 7: , the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of God's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, God bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O slaves of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."

It is high time we all removed our heads from the sands of denial!

@davidylan

This is a symptom of Isreal bashers. You keep
hanging on to these false rhetoric about Isreal's
refusal to return to pre-1967 borders as a
condition for peace when in actual fact Hamas
main goal is NOT land but the complete
destruction of Isreal. Return to pre-1967 borders
as a condition for peace presupposes that there
was peace with Isreal before 1967, however one
wonders what borders the palestinians, Iraqis,
Jordanians, Egyptians, syrians were fighting for
when Isreal was attacked in 1948 and 1967 before
these "contentious borders" were seized by Isreal!

Of the five nations you mentione above, Israel
have made peace with two (Egypt and Jordan), its
in the process of making peace with the third (Syria)
here is I-man's link to the story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/09/wmid109.xml&CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox
Cannot make peace with the fourth (Iraq) because of the chaos its chief sponsor caused there.
Cannot or do not want to make peace with the fifth because
(1) It shot itself by bringing in ultra right wing European settlers
(2) Gets 49% of its water from Gazza.
(3) Does not want to share Jerusalem.

@I-man

Remind us again when the Palestinian intifada

started when Clinton was in the White

House and Barak was PM.Are they both neo-cons?

Barak offered full withdrawal from

Gaza,withdrawal from 90% of West Bank and

international control over the Temple Mount in

Jerusalem.What happened after that? The

Palestinans launched the bloodiest terror

campaign in recent memory.It was actually after

this that my views changed.Up till then,I used to

be like you

Barak though a good man was generally perceived as all talk.
You were also economical with the truth the intifada


started with a certain man through his provocation

on the Temple Mount I think his name is Sharon- a

name synonymous with violence all through the

history of the Jewish state. (If you want I could

recount his savagery in Lebanon and other places).

@davidylan

Just in case you have forgotten, here is Hamas REAL INTENTIONS:
Article 7: , the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of God's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, God bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O slaves of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."

You've held on to this article like a leech. Even the Jewish govt is not raving and ranting about a
supposed clause in the Hamas constitution. Recognizing Israel seems to be the crux of the problem on the Jewish side not article 7,8 or 9. Who says Israel won't look for other reasons for not granting them independence?
Israel under Sharon argued they couldn't do business with Arafat, since they poisoned Arafat how
come they didn't do business with Mossad appointee (Abbas)? If they'd done peace with Arafat,
would this not have rendered Hamas unemployed? The link I-man gave on the previous page says
Israel wants to make peace with Syria. Why stop with Syria, why not go the whole hog and make peace
with the Palestinians?

All is not lost in Israel, here is former Israeli minister of education Shulamit Aloni on Israel's intransigent behaviour.

"I cannot live with the fact that our sharpshooters are killing people. I cannot live with the way we continually wail that we are the victim, and do not examine our own morality. It's important to realise that appalling as suicide bombings are, aerial bombardment kills more. While we feel the pain of our 900 dead, we tend to forget that we have murdered 3000 Palestinian civilians. We are the violent ones; we are the cheats. Our very foundations have been undermined by our adulation of force, and all this is called a democracy. There cannot be democracy when we rule over three million people who have no voice."

Tornadoz:

@davidylan
Of the five nations you mentione above, Israel
have made peace with two (Egypt and Jordan), its
in the process of making peace with the third (Syria)
here is I-man's link to the story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/09/wmid109.xml&CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox
Cannot make peace with the fourth (Iraq) because of the chaos its chief sponsor caused there.
Cannot or do not want to make peace with the fifth because
(1) It shot itself by bringing in ultra right wing European settlers
(2) Gets 49% of its water from Gazza.
(3) Does not want to share Jerusalem.

Have they really made peace with Egypt and Jordan or that those countries you mentioned learnt bitter lessons in 1967 that they are not willing to repeat?

What is your proof that Isreal brought in ultra right wing settlers from Europe? Learn to make sure you back up each harebrained statement with irrefutable proof.

Why should Isreal "share" Jerusalem? Why are you not proposing to share Abuja with the Ghanains?
historical and archeological evidence prove that Jerusalem was and has always been the capital of Isreal. Jerusalem has existed for more than 4000 yrs, it is a hebrew name that has no arab or muslim connotation!
On what basis then should they share Jerusalem?

When they proposed to share it in 1948 what did they get in return? Armoured tanks and warplanes!

Tornadoz:

@davidylan
You've held on to this article like a leech. Even the Jewish govt is not raving and ranting about a
supposed clause in the Hamas constitution. Recognizing Israel seems to be the crux of the problem on the Jewish side not article 7,8 or 9. Who says Israel won't look for other reasons for not granting them independence?
Israel under Sharon argued they couldn't do business with Arafat, since they poisoned Arafat how
come they didn't do business with Mossad appointee (Abbas)? If they'd done peace with Arafat,
would this not have rendered Hamas unemployed? The link I-man gave on the previous page says
Israel wants to make peace with Syria. Why stop with Syria, why not go the whole hog and make peace
with the Palestinians?

You read certain comments and you find it hard to believe that the author put so much as 1% of his gray matter into constructing such a point! How do you recognize a partner that you believe you have a divine right to destroy?

How do you make peace with Isreal when your very constitution is hinged on fulfilling a religious obligation to wipe out the Jews?
What of countries like Iran and Indonesia who do not recognize Isreal? Are the jews drawing water from their land too?

Tornadoz:

All is not lost in Israel, here is former Israeli minister of education Shulamit Aloni on Israel's intransigent behaviour.

"I cannot live with the fact that our sharpshooters are killing people. I cannot live with the way we continually wail that we are the victim, and do not examine our own morality. It's important to realise that appalling as suicide bombings are, aerial bombardment kills more. While we feel the pain of our 900 dead, we tend to forget that we have murdered 3000 Palestinian civilians. We are the violent ones; we are the cheats. Our very foundations have been undermined by our adulation of force, and all this is called a democracy. There cannot be democracy when we rule over three million people who have no voice."

As usual they will discard the view of this former minister and accuse him of being paid by the arabs just as they are discarding the views of an adviser to a former PM.

The highest point of hypocrisy is when people dwell on lies and at the same time try to criminally present these lies as TRUTH.

Trying to even explain the issue of what led to the Intifada in 2000 is ok but if I were you I would not bother, I would leave these guys to continue to dwell in their ignorance since the only source of information they have is google.

Afam:

As usual they will discard the view of this former minister and accuse him of being paid by the arabs just as they are discarding the views of an adviser to a former PM.

The highest point of hypocrisy is when people dwell on lies and at the same time try to criminally present these lies as TRUTH.

Trying to even explain the issue of what led to the Intifada in 2000 is ok but if I were you I would not bother, I would leave these guys to continue to dwell in their ignorance since the only source of information they have is google.

Thank God you are slightly better than us. Your source of information remains a few snippets of CNN and your famous "mailbox".
This thread is 8 pages long and yet not ONCE have you attempted to articulate your views beyond merely popping up once in a while to interject your famous insults. At least Tornadoz as biased as he is has made a few courageous attempts to stand by his viewpoints.

Lets see you do a little more of that. The highest point of hypocrisy is NOT when people dwell on lies (that you have failed to point out and correct!) but when people attempt to paper over their obvious lack of knowledge with insults and false sarcasm.
All you have done ever since is merely rehash the "views" of a few disgruntled elements. A discussion is much more than that.