LagosShia:


i know very well that there is not one verse in the Quran that says apostates or those who reject Islam should be killed,even though in my opinion it would be foolish for anyone to do so.

let me be frank to you that you are bent on misleading people.those verses you presented about "killing the disbelievers" have being explained many times.but not to worry i will repeat the explantion in my subsequent post whether or not Islam says we should kill "disbelievers".

that aside,the verses you presented mention no where the word "apostate".it mentions about those who break their pledge or treaty.this is in clear reference to the treaty of Hudaibiyyah which was a peace treaty signed between the Muslims led by the Prophet (sa) and the pagans of Quraysh.in any war situation,the rejection of a peace deal or treaty amounts to war.and that was the situation the pagans imposed on the Muslims.

so the verses you presented do not talk about "apostates".this is a verse that speaks about apostates:


this is the take of the Quran:


"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects Taghut and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things." [2:256]


"Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe again, then disbelieve, and then increase in their disbelief - Allah will never forgive them nor guide them to the path."[4:137].


if a person is to be killed for apostacy,then how can he believe again after he disbelieves?

Hahaha, u ve really tried your best to cover up Islam’s edict. You re really motivated by shame, all in making up various defenses by puting minds at ease and make islam more acceptable to some naïve, gullible, and ignorant NL audience   mOrE gRaCe To ThOsE ElBoWs @LaGoSsIaN. The bible stands.

No matter how u will twist it,  this verse is a proof from the kuran for the Commandment to execute the apostate.

Allah the most high(according to islam) declares in the quran:

But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief -- Lo! they have no binding oaths in order that they may desist. (9:11,12)[1]

@plappville WHy are you always like this,  you bring up some verses and twisted them in your own way,  Someone came and refuted them and explain them in details to you,  still you insist its not that way , I pity the man that put in his house oo,  soon you will be telling us our right hand is left and vice versa,  More He brought some verses from the bible that is plainly address instead of you to refute them you are here bragging and shouting kai,  who are you trying to sell your false religion to? religion brough by Paul who hate Jesus with passion during his evangelism shame on you. I have asked you guys to give me one single verse that said Jesus brought Christianity and point to a verse in the bible that say anything about Christianity no ignore that. i shake head for you

plappville:

Hahaha, u ve really tried your best to cover up Islam’s edict. You re really motivated by shame, all in making up various defenses by puting minds at ease and make islam more acceptable to some naïve, gullible, and ignorant NL audience  mOrE gRaCe To ThOsE ElBoWs @LaGoSsIaN. The bible stands.

No matter how u will twist it,  this verse is a proof from the kuran for the Commandment to execute the apostate.

Allah the most high(according to islam) declares in the quran:

But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief -- Lo! they have no binding oaths in order that they may desist. (9:11,12)[1]

and how are you sure this verse is referring to apostates and not pagans of Quraysh?

can you bring evidence that the Prophet (sa) ever had a treaty with the "apostates"? the verse is talking about those who broke the treaty of hudaibiyyah in reference to the pagans.can you inform us of any other treaty the Prophet (sa) signed apart from the one with the pagans?

you are intelligent,isn't it?so show us!

LagosShia:

and how are you sure this verse is referring to apostates and not pagans of Quraysh?

can you bring evidence that the Prophet (sa) ever had a treaty with the "apostates"? the verse is talking about those who broke the treaty of hudaibiyyah in reference to the pagans.can you inform us of any other treaty the Prophet (sa) signed apart from the one with the pagans?

you are intelligent,isn't it?so show us!

In responds to your question, following is the occasion for the revelation of the previews verse i qouted:

During the pilgrimage "(hajj)" in A.H. 9 God Most High ordered a proclamation of an immunity.
This was by virtue of this proclamation all those who, up to that time, were fighting against God and His apostle and were attempting to obstruct the way of God's religion through all kinds of excesses and false covenants, were granted from tht time a maximum respite of four months.

During this period they were to ponder their own situation. if they wanted to accept ihslam, they could accept it and they would be forgiven. If they wanted to leave the country, they could leave.
Within this particular period nothing would stop them from leaving.

Thereafter those remaining, who would neither accept islam nor live the country, would be dealt with by the sword. "If they repent and uphold the practice of praye, then they re your brothers in religion.
If after this however, they break their covenant, then war shuld be waged against the leaders of kufr (infidelity).

It is clear that "covenant breaking" in no way can be construed to mean "breaking of political covenants". rather, the context clearly determines its meaning to be "confessin' islam and then renouncing/refusin'  it".
Therafter the meaning of "fight the heads of disbelief" (9:11,12) can only mean that war should be waged against the leaders instigatin' apostasy. stated again below with some hadith.

But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief -- Lo! they have no binding oaths in order that they may desist. (9:11,12)

Bukhari’s Hadith Collection

Bukhari, volume 9, #17

"Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Messenger said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal intimate intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

Bukhari, volume 9, #57

Narrated Ikrima, "Some atheists were brought to Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's messenger forbade it, saying, "Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire)." I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Messenger, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."

Bukhari, volume 9, #58

Narrated Abu Bruda, "Abu Musa said, Behold there was a fettered man beside Abu Musa. Muadh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Musa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and hen reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Musa requested Muadh to sit down but Muadh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and his messenger," and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers ,

Bukhari volume 4, #656:

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

Allah's Apostle said, "You will be resurrected (and assembled) bare-footed, Unclad and uncircumcised." The Prophet then recited the Divine Verse:-- "As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it: A promise We have undertaken. Truly we shall do it." (21.104)

He added, "The first to be dressed will be Abraham. Then some of my companions will take to the right and to the left. I will say: 'My companions! 'It will be said, 'They had been renegades since you left them.' I will then say what the Pious Slave Jesus, the son of Mary said: 'And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them; when You did take me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things. If You punish them, they are Your slaves, and if you forgive them, You, only You are the All-Mighty the All-Wise.' "

Again, You are sure aware of the only one Muslim history used as a textbook in Egypt secondary schools is, "Ibn Taqtaqi", i ve no doubt u might ve read this book as a curious muslim. In his History called Al Fakhri fil Adab as Sultaniya (1). 67, Cairo edition, 1317), says that (Abu Bekr)  killed all the apostates of Mecca after the death of Mohammed
Who are u to deny the killing of apostates carried out by the first Muslims? when it is clearly stated in the islamic books.  U are here talking about been intelligent, one does not need to be intelligent to know, Islam is killing!

^^ Why are you always trying to use your own way and trying to narrate Quran verses in your understanding alone,  Why not try to read from
Quran 9: 1-15,  am gonna help you but before that i will want you to know meaning to some words use there

Treaty, trea·ty
   /ˈtriti/ Show Spelled[tree-tee] Show IPA
noun, plural -ties.
1.
a formal agreement between two or more states in reference to peace, alliance, commerce, or other international relations.
2.
the formal document embodying such an international agreement.
3.
any agreement or compact.
So now it means they are make peace agreement with some people there,  now let look into those verses


pol·y·the·ism
   /ˈpɒliθiˌɪzəm, ˌpɒliˈθiɪzəm/ Show Spelled[pol-ee-thee-iz-uhm, pol-ee-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
the doctrine of or belief in more than one god or in many gods.

de·fame
   /dɪˈfeɪm/ Show Spelled[dih-feym] Show IPA
verb (used with object), -famed, -fam·ing.
1.
to attack the good name or reputation of, as by uttering or publishing maliciously or falsely anything injurious; slander or libel; calumniate: The newspaper editorial defamed the politician.
2.
Archaic . to disgrace; bring dishonor upon.
3.
Archaic . to accuse.






Quran 9: 1-15

1, [This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty (Peace Agreement) among the polytheists.


2, So travel freely, [O disbelievers], throughout the land [during] four months but know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.


3, And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.


4, Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty (Peace Agreement) among the polytheists (Believers of many gods) and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty (Peace Agreement) until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].


5, And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists (Believers of many gods) wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.


6, And if any one of the polytheists (Believers of many gods) seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.


7, How can there be for the polytheists (Believers of many gods) a treaty (Peace Agreement) in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty (Peace Agreement) at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].


8, How [can there be a treaty](Peace Agreement) while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.


9, They have exchanged the signs of Allah for a small price and averted [people] from His way. Indeed, it was evil that they were doing.


10, They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors.


11, But if they repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, then they are your brothers in religion; and We detail the verses for a people who know.


12, And if they break their oaths after their treaty (Peace Agreement) and defame(Disgrace or Dishonour) your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease.


13, Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers.


14, Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the bosoms of a believing people


15, And remove the fury in the believers' hearts. And Allah turns in forgiveness to whom He wills; and Allah is Knowing and Wise.
 
  So now read all those verses and let me know what you dont understand about,  Cos those verses tell about hoe Generous Allah is toward the non believers and also said they should be given protection if they ask for it,   so tell me

@Plappville.

you still proved me right that the verse isn't about apostates.those given the chance to repent or face the sword were criminals or if i'm to use a modern word,they were "terrorists".they killed muslims.they were given a respite even before justice was implemented over them.

as for innocent people,no one forced them to believe anything.

@Lagosshia and Bashy Demy, I see you guys quietly ignored the hadiths quoted by Plappville. Mohammed said it and his followers did it as well.

By the way this is one the trusted hadith you guys like to quote/use.

lagosshia,i think u are a little confused.u got the topic of the thread wrong.

seeing that the bible came before the koran,the topic should have been"Islamic practices copied from the bible".how about that

like david said some of the verses u alluded to also apply to buddhist and other non christians and muslim

let an ifa priest open thhe bible u can be sure he'll believe he finds something that supports his religion

proo212:

@Lagosshia and Bashy Demy, I see you guys quietly ignored the hadiths quoted by Plappville. Mohammed said it and his followers did it as well.

By the way this is one the trusted hadith you guys like to quote/use.

i have made it perfectly clear that there is no verse in the Quran that says "kill the apostate".also the hadith presented says nothing to that effect.and even if it does,since the Quran does not promote the idea of "killing apostates" but repentance which can be based on research,then i do not see any more reason to keep arguing endlessly.

as for the hadiths,this is what i stated in another thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-825291.64.html#msg9825079

godspeed:

lagosshia,i think u are a little confused.u got the topic of the thread wrong.

seeing that the bible came before the koran,the topic should have been"Islamic practices copied from the bible".how about that

like david said some of the verses u alluded to also apply to buddhist and other non christians and muslim

let an ifa priest open thhe bible u can be sure he'll believe he finds something that supports his religion

if you can ppresent evidence to back up your claim then bring it.if not,another person has raised a similar objection in this thread on page no.5.you can read my post i answered him:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-817518.128.html#msg9770297

claims?am not making any claims am only stating the obviuos.the title of ur thread is misleading

again why ignore the fact that buddhisst and hindus can lay claims to almost all the points u raised and make their religion look valid similar to what u have done

1.) Taking off your shoes before entering the place of worship:
Exodus 3:5
"Do not come any closer," God said. "Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground."
Acts 7:33
"Then the Lord said to him, 'Take off your sandals; the place where you are standing is holy ground.

Ok Mr apologetic, the place Moses was standing on here is not even a place of worship and never became a place of worship.BTW some other religions too don't wear shoes to their place of worship


2.) Ablution-Washing before prayers
Exodus 40:31-32
  and Moses and Aaron and his sons used it to wash their hands and feet.They washed whenever they entered the Tent of Meeting or approached the altar, as the Lord commanded Moses.
Acts 21:26
Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.


so this is ablution?your usual lame tactics of expanding the definition so that any thing islam can fit in.this does not mention washing the face or the nostrils.and besides this is only prescribed for the priests not the whole congregation

3.) Genuflection (Rukoo)
Luke 22:41

 
“He withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed”,


Acts 7:60
“And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep”

Acts 20:36.
“When he had said this, he knelt down with all of them and prayed”.

am not aware only muslims kneel down to pray i think buddhists do too


4.) Prostration (Sujood)
Genesis 17:3
Abram fell facedown, and God said to him,
Numbers 20:6
Moses and Aaron went from the assembly to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting and fell facedown, and the glory of the LORD appeared to them.



Joshua 5:14
"Neither," he replied, "but as commander of the army of the LORD I have now come." Then Joshua fell facedown to the ground in reverence, and asked him, "What message does my Lord have for his servant?"
Matthew 26:39
"Going a little farther, he (Jesus) fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."


so when the bible says "fell down face down" what makes u feel jesus,abraham and joshua where not fully prostrate.or are u just arguing from silence.and here is the definition of prostrate from encarta

or pros·trate your·selfreflexive verb lie face downward: to lie prone or stretched out with the face downward , , e.g. in worship or submission
He prostrated himself before the emperor
Microsoft® Encarta® 2008. © 1993-2007 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


5.) Zakat (Charity) as a means of purification and growth
1Peter 4:8
"And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins".

charity is the old english word for love and not alms giving am sure u are aware of dat


6.) Fasting and Prayers
Matthew 17:21
Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
Mark 9:29
"And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting".

and am sure u know almost all religions fast and pray in various forms.so this point is lame


7.) Hajj-Pilgrimage To Makkah (aka Bacca in the Quran)
Psalm  84:4-7
"Blessed are those who dwell in your house;they are ever praising you.Selah Blessed are those whose strength is in you,who have set their hearts on pilgrimage.As they pass through the Valley of Baca,they make it a place of springs;the autumn rains also cover it with pools.They go from strength to strength,till each appears before God in Zion.Hear my prayer, O Lord God Almighty;listen to me, O God of Jacob.Selah Look upon our shield,c O God;look with favor on your anointed one.Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere;I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. For the Lord God is a sun and shield;the Lord bestows favor and honor;no good thing does he withhold from those whose walk is blameless. Lord Almighty,blessed is the man who trusts in you.

here is the same passage from new living translation

4  How happy are those who can live in your house,
always singing your praises.
Interlude
5  Happy are those who are strong in the Lord,
who set their minds on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem.
6  When they walk through the Valley of Weeping,*
it will become a place of refreshing springs,
where pools of blessing collect after the rains!
7  They will continue to grow stronger,
and each of them will appear before God in Jerusalem.*


8.) Qiblah-Direction Towards the House of God While Praying
(Daniel 10: 11-12)
“Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber towards Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God as he did aforetime.”


Jonah 2:4-7
Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple. The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.  I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God. When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.

1 Kings 8:29
That thine eyes may be open toward this house night and day, even toward the place of which thou hast said, My name shall be there: that thou mayest hearken unto the prayer which thy servant shall make toward this place.

u might want to explain why mohamed changed the direction of the qiblah from jerusalem{his original choice} to mecca?is allah confused



9.) Abstaining from alcohol
Proverbs 20:1
"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise".
Proverbs 23:31-32
"Do not gaze at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly!
In the end it bites like a snake and poisons like a viper."
Romans 14:21
"It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Luke 1:15
For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit [a]while yet in his mother’s womb.
Ephesians 5:18
Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit,


10.Bathing After intimate Intercourse
Leviticus 15:16-18
Any man who has a flow of Fluid must take a bath, but he still remains unclean until evening. 17If the Fluid touches anything made of cloth or leather, these must be washed, but they still remain unclean until evening. 18After Being Intimate, both the man and the woman must take a bath, but they still remain unclean until evening.

leaving aside the fact that this is a religious injuction,this is also a good medical advice.u don't have to be a muslim or xtin or buddhist to know that this is personal hygiene

11.) A Woman With Monthly Period Avoids Worship
Leviticus 15:19-27
19When a woman has her monthly period, she remains unclean for seven days, and if you touch her, you must take a bath, but you remain unclean until evening. 20-23Anything that she rests on or sits on is also unclean, and if you touch either of these, you must wash your clothes and take a bath, but you still remain unclean until evening. 24Any man who has sex with her during this time becomes unclean for seven days, and anything he rests on is also unclean.
   25Any woman who has a flow of blood outside her regular monthly period is unclean until it stops, just as she is during her monthly period. 26Anything that she rests on or sits on during this time is also unclean, just as it would be during her period. 27If you touch either of these, you must wash your clothes and take a bath, but you still remain unclean until evening.



MORE TO COME!

BACK TO THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD-MORE EXAMPLES:

1.Circumcision
Acts 7:8
And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.

John 7:22
Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

Luke 2:21
And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

FYI i'm circumsiced!


2.Hijab
Deuteronomy 22:5
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

1 Timothy 2:9
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

1 Corinthians 11:5-6
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

how deut 22.5 approves of hijab is beyond me and yes women cover their heads in church at least in my church


Abstaining from prohibited foods
3.Dead meat
Leviticus 17:15
And every soul that eateth that which died of itself, or that which was torn with beasts, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger, he shall both wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even: then shall he be clean.

Deuteronomy 14:21
Ye shall not eat of anything that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.


4.Blood
Genesis 9:4
But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Acts 15:29
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.


we abstain from blood my brother


5.Pork
Leviticus 11:7-8
And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.
Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

Deuteronomy 14:8
And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

Isaiah 65:2-5
I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick; Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels; Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

jesus clarfied this by saying not what goes in makes u unclean but what comes from inside

6.Food on which names beside Allah have been invoked
Acts 15:29
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Revelation 2:14
But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

bros xtians don't eat meat sacrified to idols.at least genuine xtians dont

godspeed:

BACK TO THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD-MORE EXAMPLES:

1.Circumcision
Acts 7:8
And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.

John 7:22
Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

Luke 2:21
And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

FYI i'm circumsiced!


2.Hijab
Deuteronomy 22:5
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

1 Timothy 2:9
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

1 Corinthians 11:5-6
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

how deut 22.5 approves of hijab is beyond me and yes women cover their heads in church at least in my church


Abstaining from prohibited foods
3.Dead meat
Leviticus 17:15
And every soul that eateth that which died of itself, or that which was torn with beasts, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger, he shall both wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even: then shall he be clean.

Deuteronomy 14:21
Ye shall not eat of anything that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.


4.Blood
Genesis 9:4
But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Acts 15:29
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.


we abstain from blood my brother


5.Pork
Leviticus 11:7-8
And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.
Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

Deuteronomy 14:8
And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

Isaiah 65:2-5
I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick; Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels; Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

jesus clarfied this by saying not what goes in makes u unclean but what comes from inside

6.Food on which names beside Allah have been invoked
Acts 15:29
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Revelation 2:14
But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

bros xtians don't eat meat sacrified to idols.at least genuine xtians dont

Abi o.I have told him his problem and even tried to help him analyse himself in my last reply to him on page 7.All Plappville has posted here is also sufficient to convince even the best Islamist scholar that he is only deceiving himself.Well, you can keep on enlightening him and others like him on the thread but I don't think I have time to waste on a person who thinks he is wise in his own eyes and lacks a penchant for knowledge.I pray Jesus himself would touch his soul and others like him one day.


Lest I forget, Merry Christmas and a Happy New in advance Year to you, Plappville and other Christians on the thread.God bless you all. Chao 

tomzman:


Lest I forget, Merry Christmas and a Happy New in advance Year to you, Plappville and other Christians on the thread.God bless you all. Chao

Happy New Year in advance rather.

@tomzman and godspeed.

can you please tell me what exactly you are refuting?

are you refuting the verses in the bible which are explicit in their islamic connection?

are you denying that we muslims follow these practices?

are you denying that christians generally do not do them; and i have heard for instance more than two christians making fun of the way muslims pray describing it as "hitting our heads on the ground" when in your bible Jesus himself hit his head on the ground!

what are you denying?

in this thread,there are two moral lessons to learn:there are practices in the bible that christians have forgotten and muslims still perform and there are practices which both sides perform which demonstrate a similarity.

Ok Mr apologetic, the place Moses was standing on here is not even a place of worship and never became a place of worship.BTW some other religions too don't wear shoes to their place of worship

removal of shoes when worshipping to keep our places of worship clean and holy shows a connection and a similarity to what Moses did and this is presently compulsory for all muslims to do.is that a good commendable act or is something bad?

so this is ablution?your usual lame tactics of expanding the definition so that any thing islam can fit in.this does not mention washing the face or the nostrils.and besides this is only prescribed for the priests not the whole congregation

again this shows an islamic practice.before we worship we wash.presently islam makes it compulsory we wash our face and hands and feet.washing of the nostrils and ears is not compulsory but commended even in islam.

the importance here is:washing.whether you wash your nose or not,bible evidence shows washing before praying which christians do not perform.

am not aware only muslims kneel down  to pray i think buddhists do too

please try and be sure.dont come here to waste people's time.

so when the bible says "fell down face down" what makes u feel jesus,abraham and joshua where not fully prostrate.or are u just arguing from silence.and here is the definition of prostrate from encarta

or pros·trate your·selfreflexive verb lie face downward: to lie prone or stretched out with the face downward , , e.g. in worship or submission
He prostrated himself before the emperor
Microsoft® Encarta® 2008. © 1993-2007 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

take note of the phrase:"fell facedown".that is called "sujood".the jews even perform that.but again christians do not.you laugh and tell us we are hitting our head on the ground.

and am sure u know almost all religions fast and pray in various forms.so this point is lame

other religions do not honor Jesus and Moses.do they?we muslims do.and Muhammad (sa) came to revive the tradition of the prophets and corrected the misguided christians who invented doctrines like trinity and the misguided jews who totally deny Jesus as someone sent by God.

u might want to explain why mohamed changed the direction of the qiblah from jerusalem{his original choice} to mecca?is allah confused

your father is confused.you are the evidence of that!

initially facing Jerusalem,set a lessons for the muslims to accept that we believe in the previous prophets.then facing Makkah sets a lesson for others to recongnize the House of God in Makkah which was built by the father of the abrahamic faiths as the temple in Jerusalem.showing from the bible that prophets turned towards the temple of jerusalem is aimed at establishing the truth to the ignorant and stu.pid christians who think that when we muslims face the Qiblah we are worshipping the Ka'bah in Makkah.just as the prophets faced a direction for their prayer to be answered because God has blesssed that place as His "dwelling place" figuratively we too do the same.

leaving aside the fact that this is a religious injuction,this is also a good medical advice.u don't have to be a muslim or xtin or buddhist to know that this is personal hygiene

i can show you in another thread where a christian said that she chose to be christian because in christianity unlike islam,she isn't required to take her bath before going to church especially after having se.x.she said she even have se.x with her husband and then goes to church.

so whatever bla bla bla you are trying to gain sympathy with,it is a fact that christians dont see it as a religious or spiritual obligation to take their bath after intercourse and especially if they are about to worship.you can see the post here where your sister was happy that she goes to church with Fluid dripping from her:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-817461.0.html#msg9691185

and regarding eating of meat,here are your two contradictory statements depicting your confused christian soul:

bros xtians don't eat meat sacrified to idols.at least genuine xtians dont

jesus clarfied this by saying not what goes in makes u unclean but what comes from inside

i wonder why you would not eat what is sacrificed to idol since you say what makes one unclean is what comes from inside and not what goes in?

we abstain from blood my brother

are you sure?

you can see this:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-781317.0.html

how deut 22.5 approves of hijab is beyond me and yes women cover their heads in church at least in my church

but you see Paul made it clear in the new testament that a woman who does not cover her head should have it shaved off.how many women cover their heads iin christianity?they even go to the salons to do hairstyles because of sunday service.

FYI i'm circumsiced!

good for you.i didnt ask to know.and many christians are not because Paul contradicted Jesus (who was himself circumcised) on circumcission:

1 Corinthians 7:17-20
17 Nevertheless, each person should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them, just as God has called them. This is the rule I lay down in all the churches. 18 Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts. 20 Each person should remain in the situation they were in when God called them.

^^ Jazakum brother, been busy lately

bashy_demy:

^^ Jazakum brother, been busy lately

ameen!

well-done!!!

1.) Taking off your shoes before entering the place of worship:
Exodus 3:5
"Do not come any closer," God said. "Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground."
Acts 7:33
"Then the Lord said to him, 'Take off your sandals; the place where you are standing is holy ground.

Ok Mr apologetic, the place Moses was standing on here is not even a place of worship and never became a place of worship.BTW some other religions too don't wear shoes to their place of worship

Thank u for that, certain religions require removing shoes before entering a place of worship or a temple.
Muslims remove, Hindus remove shoes before entering a temple, and Sikhs remove shoes before entering a gurudwara. This has automatically made them find thier practice in the bible,

How many can one point out, any other religion outside Christianity can certainly be found in the bible, this made them false according to the prophecies,

tomzman:

Abi o.I have told him his problem and even tried to help him analyse himself in my last reply to him on page 7.All Plappville has posted here is also sufficient to convince even the best Islamist scholar that he is only deceiving himself.Well, you can keep on enlightening him and others like him on the thread but I don't think I have time to waste on a person who thinks he is wise in his own eyes and lacks a penchant for knowledge.I pray Jesus himself would touch his soul and others like him one day.


Lest I forget, Merry Christmas and a Happy New in advance Year to you, Plappville and other Christians on the thread.God bless you all. Chao 

Thanks, I wish u a happy new year in advance also, God bless you.

LagosShia:

in this thread,there are two moral lessons to learn:there are practices in the bible that christians have forgotten and muslims still perform and there are practices which both sides perform which demonstrate a similarity.
removal of shoes when worshipping to keep our places of worship clean and holy shows a connection and a similarity to what Moses did and this is presently compulsory for all muslims to do.is that a good commendable act or is something bad?
again this shows an islamic practice.before we worship we wash.presently islam makes it compulsory we wash our face and hands and feet.washing of the nostrils and ears is not compulsory but commended even in islam.

the importance here is:washing.whether you wash your nose or not,bible evidence shows washing before praying which christians do not perform.
please try and be sure.dont come here to waste people's time.
take note of the phrase:"fell facedown".that is called "sujood".the jews even perform that.but again christians do not.you laugh and tell us we are hitting our head on the ground.
other religions do not honor Jesus and Moses.do they?we muslims do.and Muhammad (sa) came to revive the tradition of the prophets and corrected the misguided christians who invented doctrines like trinity and the misguided jews who totally deny Jesus as someone sent by God.
your father is confused.you are the evidence of that!

initially facing Jerusalem,set a lessons for the muslims to accept that we believe in the previous prophets.then facing Makkah sets a lesson for others to recongnize the House of God in Makkah which was built by the father of the abrahamic faiths as the temple in Jerusalem.showing from the bible that prophets turned towards the temple of jerusalem is aimed at establishing the truth to the ignorant and stu.pid christians who think that when we muslims face the Qiblah we are worshipping the Ka'bah in Makkah.just as the prophets faced a direction for their prayer to be answered because God has blesssed that place as His "dwelling place" figuratively we too do the same.
i can show you in another thread where a christian said that she chose to be christian because in christianity unlike islam,she isn't required to take her bath before going to church especially after having se.x.she said she even have se.x with her husband and then goes to church.

so whatever bla bla bla you are trying to gain sympathy with,it is a fact that christians dont see it as a religious or spiritual obligation to take their bath after intercourse and especially if they are about to worship.you can see the post here where your sister was happy that she goes to church with Fluid dripping from her:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-817461.0.html#msg9691185

and regarding eating of meat,here are your two contradictory statements depicting your confused christian soul:
i wonder why you would not eat what is sacrificed to idol since you say what makes one unclean is what comes from inside and not what goes in?
are you sure?

you can see this:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-781317.0.html
but you see Paul made it clear in the new testament that a woman who does not cover her head should have it shaved off.how many women cover their heads iin christianity?they even go to the salons to do hairstyles because of sunday service.

good for you.i didnt ask to know.and many christians are not because Paul contradicted Jesus (who was himself circumcised) on circumcission:

1 Corinthians 7:17-20
17 Nevertheless, each person should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them, just as God has called them. This is the rule I lay down in all the churches. 18 Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts. 20 Each person should remain in the situation they were in when God called them.

Keep decieving the audience , There can't be any similarity between ChristianS and moslims in anyway. U must know that all christians varying beliefs about Islam, is same conclusion. Some Christians believe that Mohammed was a liar, some believe he was a lunatic, some believe he was the false prophet, and yet others claim he was deceived by the Devil. In all this, the conclusion arrives at pointing at Satan. He is the one that established Islam. Satan has used his wisdom to establish Islam in a very brilliant way, by focussing to God and rejecting Christ identity. Where is the similarity? God is not confused MR LagosShia.

@Plappville,He is not deceiving anybody,but enlighting them ,and may Allah make it easy for them,Allah owns his creatures mind and not whatever you write or think.

uplawal:

@Plappville,He is not deceiving anybody,but enlighting them ,and may Allah make it easy for them,Allah owns his creatures mind and not whatever you write or think.

U don't enlighten others to distruction, do u?

If you think is destruction,millions of people reading this thread knows it is absolute truth,this is one of the reasons why i accepted Islam in the first place, i saw truth and light of God in it,likewise others too,and the characters of my christian nairalanders at that time too put me off christianity instantly,you people need to come out of darkness and come to light.Its your choice whoever you serve,but Allah is calling you all to worship him,it is better for you in this life and the next.

plappville:

Keep decieving the audience , There can't be any similarity between ChristianS and moslims in anyway. U must know that all christians varying beliefs about Islam, is same conclusion. Some Christians believe that Mohammed was a liar, some believe he was a lunatic, some believe he was the false prophet, and yet others claim he was deceived by the Devil. In all this, the conclusion arrives at pointing at Satan. He is the one that established Islam. Satan has used his wisdom to establish Islam in a very brilliant way, by focussing to God and rejecting Christ identity. Where is the similarity? God is not confused MR LagosShia.

the "Jesus identity" christians today believe in and define their doctrines by history informs us that is based on the desires of men who formed councils to vote on what to believe and what to reject.read your early christian history and you will know that denying that Jesus is God did not start with Muhammad (sa).it started with them early christians.it was the romans and their pagan ways that promoted the divinity of the man named Jesus.likewise with the formation of the bible and other christian doctrines like the so called crucifixion and trinity and the literal "sonship" of Jesus.

the failure of christians to determine what and who really was Muhammad (sa) explains their state of confucion and their lost minds.they are undoubtedly perplexed by the reality and truth of Muhammad (sa) so they go on and on to make theories on how he came about.this your confuse state only strengthen the belief of Muslims and the sincerely non-muslims who want to know the truth to accept the fact that Muhammad (sa) was a true Prophet of God.

yeah merry xmas and happy new year in advance to xtians in d house,especially david and frosbel. u guys have been doing a wonderful job of keeping these vociferous mohammedans at bay particularly david.i've seen ur previous exchanges with this guy and i must commend ur courage.

u know gone are the days when mohammedans capitlize on xtians little knowledge of their faith to put xtians on the defensive in every debate,but in u, these guys have found their match,,

kudos bro.

@tomzman and godspeed.

can you please tell me what exactly you are refuting?

it depends exactly on the point u are labouring to make.i told u in my previous post that this thread is not appropriately titled.all i am seeing are muslim practices copied from the bible.do u deserve a thumbs up for that?

if on the other hand u think u are telling xtians that the bible approves of some muslim practices then u are mistaken.ponder over this earlier response by firebrand  for a mo

The Holy Bible has rightly been described as the The Book of books. Virtually all religions --- Xtianity, Islam, Eck. etc finds solace in identifying with the wonderful message of the book. It doesnt end there, even magicians claims affinity with the book. The truth of the matter is, this book called Bible is the reference book for all religions, sciences, researchers, historians, geologist etc.

Therefore, let the religionist continue to make reference to it to back up there claims, even their holy book dubiously and fraudulently 'copy and paste' directly from it and even goes further to recommend it (The Bible) for their reading.

For whatever reason or purpose you chose to read the holy scripture, that same purpose God would meet or deal with you.
"With the merciful THOU wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man THOU wilt shew thyself upright; with the pure THOU wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward THOU wilt shew thyself froward" Psalm 18:25-26

So if you read the bible unto salvation, you will surely meet God unto salvation, if unto condemination, you meet him unto condemination.
Go for more!

gbam!! that explains the futility of ur intellectual exercise.like i told u earlier,ask an ifa priest to read from the bible ,he is going to find something that 'justifies'is fate,does that mean the bible approves of it too?no!

in the same vein,u can ask the bahai faithfuls and chrislam adherents to turn the pages of the bible or the koran,u can be sure they'll come up with dozens of similar verses does that mean the bible or the koran approves of such practices?

let me give u this puzzle

i have a friend ,an animist,and lately i've been trying to convince him that God is not interested in animal sacrifices anymore and the next thing,he grabbed a bibke ,flipped thru the pages and came up with lots of instances where God commanded or condoned animal sacrifices from cain and abel to noah to abraham e.t.c.again'my friend took a copy of the koran and showed me that allah personally supplied ibrahim with a rm with which to make a sacrifice.my friend's question is:if God commanded animal sacrifices in the bible and the koran,does that not justify his continued sacrifice of animals to him?again he wants to know why xtians and muslims have decided to do away with this practice since God commanded it?can u pls offer a convincing answer?{of course this is purely hypothetical,but ur answer wld be welcome}

the above example will show u the futility of ur posts.hindus ,buddhistsand sikhs can show u dozens of their practices in islam,does that mean allah gives them his blessins too.think man.u're just on ur way to intellectual suicide with this post and how u've failed to see it as such amuses me.can u ever imagine a xtian ferreting thru the koran to seek approval  for xtianity?of course that would be absurd

removal of shoes when worshipping to keep our places of worship clean and holy shows a connection and a similarity to what Moses did and this is presently compulsory for all muslims to do.is that a good commendable act or is something bad?


like i told u earlier,the place moses was standind on is not a place of worship so don't try to force a parallel btw this and muslims taking off their shoes in a place of worship.God commanding moses to take off his shoes could have been symbolical and not meant to be repeated literally.

afterall,God did not command abraham to remove his shoes b4 sacrificing the ram even though the altar at which abraham did so  would qualify for a place of worship.

FYI hindus do this as well,should they also be commended?

again this shows an islamic practice.before we worship we wash.presently islam makes it compulsory we wash our face and hands and feet.washing of the nostrils and ears is not compulsory but commended even in islam.

the importance here is:washing.whether you wash your nose or not,bible evidence shows washing before praying which christians do not perform.

like i said ,this is for the priests not the whole congregation.BTW hindus do something similar,is the bible{or d koran} also approving of their practice

please try and be sure.dont come here to waste people's time

i'm only been sarcastic,buddhist,hindus,satanist and thousands of other religions kneel down to pray.u know that

take note of the phrase:"fell facedown".that is called "sujood".the jews even perform that.but again christians do not.you laugh and tell us we are hitting our head on the ground.

the phrase 'face down' is too broad and too vague for u to form a particular posture out of it.it could be the same way i prray on the mountain-by lying prostrate face down.making the phrase 'face down' mean showing God your butt is stretching imagination too far

other religions do not honor Jesus and Moses.do they?we muslims do.and Muhammad (sa) came to revive the tradition of the prophets and corrected the misguided christians who invented doctrines like trinity and the misguided jews who totally deny Jesus as someone sent by God.


don't introduce a red herring argument,u wre referring only to fasting and praying alone which ALL the world religions do,so i don't see how fasting and praying constitute ' Islamic Practices In The Bible Unknown To Christians'.besides,here are some non muslim religion who fast and pray and honour moses and/jesus

the bahai faith
chrislam
eckankar
grail message
gnoticism

so ur point?

initially facing Jerusalem,set a lessons for the muslims to accept that we believe in the previous prophets.then facing Makkah sets a lesson for others to recongnize the House of God in Makkah which was built by the father of the abrahamic faiths as the temple in Jerusalem.showing from the bible that prophets turned towards the temple of jerusalem is aimed at establishing the truth to the ignorant and stu.pid christians who think that when we muslims face the Qiblah we are worshipping the Ka'bah in Makkah.just as the prophets faced a direction for their prayer to be answered because God has blesssed that place as His "dwelling place" figuratively we too do the same.


summary-facing jerusalem was for a purpose and when the purpose was achieved God changed the direction of the qiblah,right?
in the same vein,God allowed these practices u mentioned initially,but when the new convenant came in Jesus,he did away with them.Got that?

but of course ur explanation is a lie!those face-saving theories u readily make to save urgod and his prophet from embarrassment,otherwise show me a quranic verse or an hadith that supports ur position above.
mohammed initially chose jerusalem as d direction of the qiblah to gain the approval of the Jews but when the jews would not stop mocking him he decided to change to mecca to get back at them.more on this later

your father is confused.you are the evidence of that!


see who is confused
Muhammad first said that it does not matter where you are facing to pray because God is everywhere (Sura 2:109). Then he changed his mind and said that we should pray towards Jerusalem, and then changed his mind again and said we should face Mecca (Sura 2:119-121, 138-144). And this contradiction is all in the same chapter.so  who is confused?my father or ur fake prophet and his alter ego allah?

and regarding eating of meat,here are your two contradictory statements depicting your confused christian soul:

Quote
bros xtians don't eat meat sacrified to idols.at least genuine xtians dont

Quote
jesus clarfied this by saying not what goes in makes u unclean but what comes from inside
i wonder why you would not eat what is sacrificed to idol since you say what makes one unclean is what comes from inside and not what goes in?


What more can i say,u are a muslim and ur mind is trained to always see contradictions.

pork,lizards,shrimps and any other animal are no longer considered unclean for human consumption but the case of meat sacrificed to idols is different.even if the meat sacrificed is an animal regarded as clean,the fact  that it has been dedicated to an idol makes it a taboo if u like for a believer to intentionally partake of it.doing so is tantamount to sharing in the worship of the idol.get that straight

so time to change tactics and go from the defensive to the offensive.
u demanded earlier that i give u proof that islam copied
my next post is from a hindu who believes islam has copied his religion's practices.what do u make of his points?do similarities in the practices means the quran approves of certain hindu practices?

Glancing through some research material recently, I was pleasantly surprised to come across a reference to a king Vikramaditya inscription found in the Kaaba in Mecca proving beyond doubt that the Arabian Peninsula formed a part of his Indian Empire.
The text of the crucial Vikramaditya inscription, found inscribed on a gold dish hung inside the Kaaba shrine in Mecca, is found recorded on page 315 of a volume known as ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ treasured in the Makhtab-e-Sultania library in Istanbul, Turkey. Rendered in free English the inscription says:
"Fortunate are those who were born (and lived) during king Vikram’s reign. He was a noble, generous dutiful ruler, devoted to the welfare of his subjects. But at that time we Arabs, oblivious of God, were lost in sensual pleasures. Plotting and torture were rampant. The darkness of ignorance had enveloped our country. Like the lamb struggling for her life in the cruel paws of a wolf we Arabs were caught up in ignorance. The entire country was enveloped in a darkness so intense as on a new moon night. But the present dawn and pleasant sunshine of education is the result of the favour of the noble king Vikramaditya whose benevolent supervision did not lose sight of us- foreigners as we were. He spread his sacred religion amongst us and sent scholars whose brilliance shone like that of the sun from his country to ours. These scholars and preceptors through whose benevolence we were once again made cognisant of the presence of God, introduced to His sacred existence and put on the road of Truth, had come to our country to preach their religion and impart education at king Vikramaditya’s behest."
For those who would like to read the Arabic wording I reproduce it hereunder in Roman script:
"Itrashaphai Santu Ibikramatul Phahalameen Karimun Yartapheeha Wayosassaru Bihillahaya Samaini Ela Motakabberen Sihillaha Yuhee Quid min howa Yapakhara phajjal asari nahone osirom bayjayhalem. Yundan blabin Kajan blnaya khtoryaha sadunya kanateph netephi bejehalin Atadari bilamasa- rateen phakef tasabuhu kaunnieja majekaralhada walador. As hmiman burukankad toluho watastaru hihila Yakajibaymana balay kulk amarena phaneya jaunabilamary Bikramatum".
(Page 315 Sayar-ul-okul).
[Note: The title ‘Saya-ul-okul’ signifies memorable words.]
A careful analysis of the above inscription enables us to draw the following conclusions:
1. That the ancient Indian empires may have extended up to the eastern boundaries of Arabia until Vikramaditya and that it was he who for the first time conquered Arabia. Because the inscription says that king Vikram who dispelled the darkness of ignorance from Arabia.
2. That, whatever their earlier faith, King Vikrama’s preachers had succeeded in spreading the Vedic (based on the Vedas, the Hindu sacred scriptures)) way of life in Arabia.
3. That the knowledge of Indian arts and sciences was imparted by Indians to the Arabs directly by founding schools, academies and cultural centres. The belief, therefore, that visiting Arabs conveyed that knowledge to their own lands through their own indefatigable efforts and scholarship is unfounded.
An ancillary conclusion could be that the so-called Kutub Minar (in Delhi, India) could well be king Vikramadiya’s tower commemorating his conquest of Arabia. This conclusion is strengthened by two pointers. Firstly, the inscription on the iron pillar near the so-called Kutub Minar refers to the marriage of the victorious king Vikramaditya to the princess of Balhika. This Balhika is none other than the Balkh region in West Asia. It could be that Arabia was wrestled by king Vikramaditya from the ruler of Balkh who concluded a treaty by giving his daughter in marriage to the victor. Secondly, the township adjoining the so called Kutub Minar is named Mehrauli after Mihira who was the renowned astronomer-mathematician of king Vikram’s court. Mehrauli is the corrupt form of Sanskrit ‘Mihira-Awali’ signifying a row of houses raised for Mihira and his helpers and assistants working on astronomical observations made from the tower.
Having seen the far reaching and history shaking implications of the Arabic inscription concerning king Vikrama, we shall now piece together the story of its find. How it came to be recorded and hung in the Kaaba in Mecca. What are the other proofs reinforcing the belief that Arabs were once followers of the Indian Vedic way of life and that tranquillity and education were ushered into Arabia by king Vikramaditya’s scholars, educationists from an uneasy period of "ignorance and turmoil" mentioned in the inscription.
In Istanbul, Turkey, there is a famous library called Makhatab-e-Sultania, which is reputed to have the largest collection of ancient West Asian literature. In the Arabic section of that library is an anthology of ancient Arabic poetry. That anthology was compiled from an earlier work in A.D. 1742 under the orders of the Turkish ruler Sultan Salim.
The pages of that volume are of Hareer – a kind of silk used for writing on. Each page has a decorative gilded border. That anthology is known as Sayar-ul-Okul. It is divided into three parts. The first part contains biographic details and the poetic compositions of pre-Islamic Arabian poets. The second part embodies accounts and verses of poets of the period beginning just after prophet Mohammad’s times, up to the end of the Banee-Um-Mayya dynasty. The third part deals with later poets up to the end of Khalif Harun-al-Rashid’s times.
Abu Amir Asamai, an Arabian bard who was the poet Laureate of Harun-al-Rashid’s court, has compiled and edited the anthology.
The first modern edition of ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ was printed and published in Berlin in 1864. A subsequent edition is the one published in Beirut in 1932.
The collection is regarded as the most important and authoritative anthology of ancient Arabic poetry. It throws considerable light on the social life, customs, manners and entertainment modes of ancient Arabia. The book also contains an elaborate description of the ancient shrine of Mecca, the town and the annual fair known as OKAJ which used to be held every year around the Kaaba temple in Mecca. This should convince readers that the annual haj of the Muslims to the Kaaba is of earlier pre-Islamic congregation.
But the OKAJ fair was far from a carnival. It provided a forum for the elite and the learned to discuss the social, religious, political, literary and other aspects of the Vedic culture then pervading Arabia. ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ asserts that the conclusion reached at those discussions were widely respected throughout Arabia. Mecca, therefore, followed the Varanasi tradition (of India) of providing a venue for important discussions among the learned while the masses congregated there for spiritual bliss. The principal shrines at both Varanasi in India and at Mecca in Arvasthan (Arabia) were Siva temples. Even to this day ancient Mahadev (Siva) emblems can be seen. It is the Shankara (Siva) stone that Muslim pilgrims reverently touch and kiss in the Kaaba.
Arabic tradition has lost trace of the founding of the Kaaba temple. The discovery of the Vikramaditya inscription affords a clue. King Vikramaditya is known for his great devotion to Lord Mahadev (Siva). At Ujjain (India), the capital of Vikramaditya, exists the famous shrine of Mahankal, i.e., of Lord Shankara (Siva) associated with Vikramaditya. Since according to the Vikramaditya inscription he spread the Vedic religion, who else but he could have founded the Kaaba temple in Mecca?
A few miles away from Mecca is a big signboard which bars the entry of any non-Muslim into the area. This is a reminder of the days when the Kaaba was stormed and captured solely for the newly established faith of Islam. The object in barring entry of non-Muslims was obviously to prevent its recapture.
As the pilgrim proceeds towards Mecca he is asked to shave his head and beard and to don special sacred attire that consists of two seamless sheets of white cloth. One is to be worn round the waist and the other over the shoulders. Both these rites are remnants of the old Vedic practice of entering Hindu temples clean- and with holy seamless white sheets.

The main shrine in Mecca, which houses the Siva emblem, is known as the Kaaba. It is clothed in a black shroud. That custom also originates from the days when it was thought necessary to discourage its recapture by camouflaging it.
According to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, the Kaaba has 360 images. Traditional accounts mention that one of the deities among the 360 destroyed when the place was stormed, was that of Saturn; another was of the Moon and yet another was one called Allah. That shows that in the Kaaba the Arabs worshipped the nine planets in pre-Islamic days. In India the practice of ‘Navagraha’ puja, that is worship of the nine planets, is still in vogue. Two of these nine are Saturn and Moon.
In India the crescent moon is always painted across the forehead of the Siva symbol. Since that symbol was associated with the Siva emblem in Kaaba it came to be grafted on the flag of Islam.
Another Hindu tradition associated with the Kaaba is that of the sacred stream Ganga (sacred waters of the Ganges river). According to the Hindu tradition Ganga is also inseparable from the Shiva emblem as the crescent moon. Wherever there is a Siva emblem, Ganga must co-exist. True to that association a sacred fount exists near the Kaaba. Its water is held sacred because it has been traditionally regarded as Ganga since pre-Islamic times (Zam-Zam water).
[Note: Even today, Muslim pilgrims who go to the Kaaba for Haj regard this Zam-Zam water with reverence and take some bottled water with them as sacred water.]
Muslim pilgrims visiting the Kaaba temple go around it seven times. In no other mosque does the circumambulation prevail. Hindus invariably circumambulate around their deities. This is yet another proof that the Kaaba shrine is a pre-Islamic Indian Shiva temple where the Hindu practice of circumambulation is still meticulously observed.
The practice of taking seven steps- known as Saptapadi in Sanskrit- is associated with Hindu marriage ceremony and fire worship. The culminating rite in a Hindu marriage enjoins upon the bride and groom to go round the sacred fire four times (but misunderstood by many as seven times). Since "Makha" means fire, the seven circumambulations also prove that Mecca was the seat of Indian fire-worship in the West Asia.
It might come as a stunning revelation to many that the word ‘ALLAH’ itself is Sanskrit. In Sanskrit language Allah, Akka and Amba are synonyms. They signify a goddess or mother. The term ‘ALLAH’ forms part of Sanskrit chants invoking goddess Durga, also known as Bhavani, Chandi and Mahishasurmardini. The Islamic word for God is., therefore, not an innovation but the ancient Sanskrit appellation retained and continued by Islam. Allah means mother or goddess and mother goddess.
One Koranic verse is an exact translation of a stanza in the Yajurveda. This was pointed out by the great research scholar Pandit Satavlekar of Pardi in one of his articles.
[Note: Another scholar points out that the following teaching from the Koran is exactly similar to the teaching of the Kena Upanishad (1.7).
The Koran:
"Sight perceives Him not. But He perceives men's sights; for He is the knower of secrets, the Aware."
Kena Upanishad:
"That which cannot be seen by the eye but through which the eye itself sees, know That to be Brahman (God) and not what people worship here (in the manifested world)."
A simplified meaning of both the above verses reads:
God is one and that He is beyond man's sensory experience.
The identity of Unani and Ayurvedic systems shows that Unani is just the Arabic term for the Ayurvedic system of healing taught to them and administered in Arabia when Arabia formed part of the Indian empire.
It will now be easy to comprehend the various Hindu customs still prevailing in West Asian countries even after the existence of Islam during the last 1300 years. Let us review some Hindu traditions which exist as the core of Islamic practice.
The Hindus have a pantheon of 33 gods. People in Asia Minor too worshipped 33 gods before the spread of Islam. The lunar calendar was introduced in West Asia during the Indian rule. The Muslim month ‘Safar’ signifying the ‘extra’ month (Adhik Maas) in the Hindu calendar. The Muslim month Rabi is the corrupt form of Ravi meaning the sun because Sanskrit ‘V’ changes into Prakrit ‘B’ (Prakrit being the popular version of Sanskrit language). The Muslim sanctity for Gyrahwi Sharif is nothing but the Hindu Ekadashi (Gyrah = elevan or Gyaarah). Both are identical in meaning.
The Islamic practice of Bakari Eed derives from the Go-Medh and Ashva-Medh Yagnas or sacrifices of Vedic times. Eed in Sanskrit means worship. The Islamic word Eed for festive days, signifying days of worship, is therefore a pure Sanskrit word. The word MESH in the Hindu zodiac signifies a lamb. Since in ancient times the year used to begin with the entry of the sun in Aries, the occasion was celebrated with mutton feasting. That is the origin of the Bakari Eed festival.
[Note: The word Bakari is an Indian language word for a goat.]
Since Eed means worship and Griha means ‘house’, the Islamic word Idgah signifies a ‘House of worship’ which is the exact Sanskrit connotation of the term. Similarly the word ‘Namaz’ derives from two Sanskrit roots ‘Nama’ and ‘Yajna’ (NAMa yAJna) meaning bowing and worshipping.
Vedic descriptions about the moon, the different stellar constellations and the creation of the universe have been incorporated from the Vedas in Koran part 1 chapter 2, stanza 113, 114, 115, and 158, 189, chapter 9, stanza 37 and chapter 10, stanzas 4 to 7.
Recital of the Namaz five times a day owes its origin to the Vedic injunction of Panchmahayagna (five daily worship- Panch-Maha-Yagna) which is part of the daily Vedic ritual prescribed for all individuals.
Muslims are enjoined cleanliness of five parts of the body before commencing prayers. This derives from the Vedic injuction ‘Shareer Shydhyartham Panchanga Nyasah’.
Four months of the year are regarded as very sacred in Islamic custom. The devout are enjoined to abstain from plunder and other evil deeds during that period. This originates in the Chaturmasa i.e., the four-month period of special vows and austerities in Hindu tradition. Shabibarat is the corrupt form of Shiva Vrat and Shiva Ratra. Since the Kaaba has been an important centre of Shiva (Siva) worship from times immemorial, the Shivaratri festival used to be celebrated there with great gusto. It is that festival which is signified by the Islamic word Shabibarat.
Encyclopaedias tell us that there are inscriptions on the side of the Kaaba walls. What they are, no body has been allowed to study, according to the correspondence I had with an American scholar of Arabic. But according to hearsay at least some of those inscriptions are in Sanskrit, and some of them are stanzas from the Bhagavad Gita.
According to extant Islamic records, Indian merchants had settled in Arabia, particularly in Yemen, and their life and manners deeply influenced those who came in touch with them. At Ubla there was a large number of Indian settlements. This shows that Indians were in Arabia and Yemen in sufficient strength and commanding position to be able to influence the local people. This could not be possible unless they belonged to the ruling class.
It is mentioned in the Abadis i.e., the authentic traditions of Prophet Mohammad compiled by Imam Bukhari that the Indian tribe of Jats had settled in Arabia before Prophet Mohammad’s times. Once when Hazrat Ayesha, wife of the Prophet, was taken ill, her nephew sent for a Jat physician for her treatment. This proves that Indians enjoyed a high and esteemed status in Arabia. Such a status could not be theirs unless they were the rulers. Bukhari also tells us that an Indian Raja (king) sent a jar of ginger pickles to the Prophet. This shows that the Indian Jat Raja ruled an adjacent area so as to be in a position to send such an insignificant present as ginger pickles. The Prophet is said to have so highly relished it as to have told his colleagues also to partake of it. These references show that even during Prophet Mohammad’s times Indians retained their influential role in Arabia, which was a dwindling legacy from Vikramaditya’s times.
The Islamic term ‘Eed-ul-Fitr’ derives from the ‘Eed of Piters’ that is worship of forefathers in Sanskrit tradition. In India, Hindus commemorate their ancestors during the Pitr-Paksha that is the fortnight reserved for their remembrance. The very same is the significance of ‘Eed-ul-Fitr’ (worship of forefathers).
The Islamic practice of observing the moon rise before deciding on celebrating the occasion derives from the Hindu custom of breaking fast on Sankranti and Vinayaki Chaturthi only after sighting the moon.
Barah Vafat, the Muslim festival for commemorating those dead in battle or by weapons, derives from a similar Sanskrit tradition because in Sanskrit ‘Phiphaut’ is ‘death’. Hindus observe Chayal Chaturdashi in memory of those who have died in battle.
The word Arabia is itself the abbreviation of a Sanskrit word. The original word is ‘Arabasthan’. Since Prakrit ‘B’ is Sanskrit ‘V’ the original Sanskrit name of the land is ‘Arvasthan’. ‘Arva’ in Sanskrit means a horse. Arvasthan signifies a land of horses., and as well all know, Arabia is famous for its horses
All Arabic copies of the Koran have the mysterious figure 786 imprinted on them . No Arabic scholar has been able to determine the choice of this particular number as divine. It is an established fact that Muhammad was illiterate therefore it is obvious that he would not be able to differentiate numbers from letters. This "magical" number is none other than the Vedic holy letter "OM" written in Sanskrit (Refer to figure 2). Anyone who knows Sanskrit can try reading the symbol for "OM" backwards in the Arabic way and magically the numbers 786 will appear! Muslims in their ignorance simply do not realise that this special number is nothing more than the holiest of Vedic symbols misread.

take it away

^^^ Hey dude you have all the time to write this nonsense?

^^^^^

my brother Bashy,it is frustration.they now copy and paste anything they see even if it does not make sense.

aside from the fact that,the account he is copying defies history,how can cultural or religious exchange make one land to be part of another? there is no way the indians conquered arabia.

secondly,idols in the Ka'bah? oh yes we know that and Islam with the hands of Muhammad (sa) broke them all and restored the Ka'bah for the worship of Almighty God (Allah).

the allegation that the word "arabia" and "eid" comes from sanskrit is ridiculous.actually just like in hausa where you find arabic words,you also find arabic words in hindi and other languages like persian and turkish.the reality is the other way round.it was the arabians that introduced these words to conquered peoples.so are we also going to say that the hausas conquered arabia?