frosbel:

And the Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit , is different from GOD who is Spirit, right

So even though GOD is Spirit, there is also the Holy Spirit.

You need to stop conversing with the Catholics honestly

The Holy Spirit is what makes GOD omnipresent , period !

Indeed PastorKun

Study this diagram, which might give you the faintest idea of what the trinity is about.

frosbel:

Indeed PastorKun

Don't say that I didn't warn you, especially with this cartoon.

OLAADEGBU:

Study this diagram, which might give you the faintest idea of what the trinity is about.

I do not study diagrams, I study scripture.

The diagram is quite Pagan in design if I may add.

Besides, you have no answered my question.

God is Spirit, but you are saying the Holy Spirit is separate, right ? Does not make sense I am afraid. Read the bible again , this time with an unbiased mind.

Tradition does not equal fact my friend.

^^^ Again I ask this question: is Jesus "spirit"?

Enigma: ^^^ Again I ask this question: is Jesus "spirit"?

Jesus Christ is the express image of the person of GOD in bodily form.

^^^ But He is not "spirit"?

frosbel:

I do not study diagrams, I study scripture.

The diagram is quite Pagan in design if I may add.

Besides, you have no answered my question.

God is Spirit, but you are saying the Holy Spirit is separate, right ? Does not make sense I am afraid. Read the bible again , this time with an unbiased mind.

Tradition does not equal fact my friend.

Can you clearly see here how the holy Trinity was at work in our redemption as clearly illustrated by Derek Prince?

"In every major phase of the redemption, each Person of the Godhead is directly involved. Their involvement in each successive phase may be set out as follows:

Incarnation. The Father incarnated the Son in the womb of Mary by the Holy Spirit. (Lk.1:35).

Baptism in the Jordan River. The Spirit descended on the Son, and the Father spoke His approval from heaven (Matt.3:14-17).

Public ministry. The Father anointed the Son with the Spirit (Acts 10:38).

The crucifixion. Jesus offered Himself to the Father through the Spirit (Heb.9:14).

The resurrection. The Father resurrected the Son by the Spirit (Acts 2:32; Rom.1:4).

Pentecost. From the Father the Son received the Spirit, whom He then poured out on His disciples (Acts 2:33).

Each Person of the Godhead -- and I mean this reverently -- was jealous to be included in the process of redeeming humanity." -- Derek Prince, Atonement

@Olaadegbu,

Could you please juxtapose your statement on 'God being three personalities as one God'?I asked because God is a spirit.
More so, if you critically look at the bible, most of the baptisms as done by the disciples were in the name of Jesus Christ despite the fact that Jesus Christ instructed the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Spirit.

My take on this is that the bible was majorly written in allegory and we must not always interpret scriptures literally. More so, as children of God it pays to challenge the status quo in our present-day churches as this might have been erroneously passed on to these churches. The only way to go about this is to study the bible and ask for God's spirit for revelation of the undiluted word.

I agree with Frosbel, that God is one and not a triune as we were erroneously taught. It pleases God to manifest as a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The three bear record in heaven as rightly put in the scriptures.

@Frosbel, the only question I have for you though its seemingly off track from this post,is why did the same disciples did majorly baptize in the name of Jesus as recorded in the bible and not in the name of the Father,Son, and Holy Spirit?

This is an avenue to learn please.I have always believed that learning is the antidote to ignorance and getting it right at the next attempt.More so, the knowledge embedded in the word of God is limitless!Jesus Christ is Lord!

OLAADEGBU:

Can you clearly see here how the holy Trinity was at work in our redemption as clearly illustrated by Derek Prince?

"In every major phase of the redemption, each Person of the Godhead is directly involved. Their involvement in each successive phase may be set out as follows:

Incarnation. The Father incarnated the Son in the womb of Mary by the Holy Spirit. (Lk.1:35).

Baptism in the Jordan River. The Spirit descended on the Son, and the Father spoke His approval from heaven (Matt.3:14-17).

Public ministry. The Father anointed the Son with the Spirit (Acts 10:38).

The crucifixion. Jesus offered Himself to the Father through the Spirit (Heb.9:14).

The resurrection. The Father resurrected the Son by the Spirit (Acts 2:32; Rom.1:4).

Pentecost. From the Father the Son received the Spirit, whom He then poured out on His disciples (Acts 2:33).

Each Person of the Godhead -- and I mean this reverently -- was jealous to be included in the process of redeeming humanity." -- Derek Prince, Atonement

The Spirit is the Holy Spirit, not another Spirit Sir.

And there is no hierarchy in your so called Trinity where Father =1, Son = 2 and Spirit =3. This is a Pagan concept.

GOD is ONE.

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." - Mark 12:29

Besides I am sort of surprised that none of the Apostles explained the theology of this so called Trinity, this theology developed after they early apostles left the scene.

I cannot accept tradition just because it is over 1000 years old, actually that is when the apostasy started.

nedostic: @Olaadegbu,

Could you please juxtapose your statement on 'God being three personalities as one God'?I asked because God is a spirit.
More so, if you critically look at the bible, most of the baptisms as done by the disciples were in the name of Jesus Christ despite the fact that Jesus Christ instructed the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Spirit.

My take on this is that the bible was majorly written in allegory and we must not always interpret scriptures literally. More so, as children of God it pays to challenge the status quo in our present-day churches as this might have been erroneously passed on to these churches. The only way to go about this is to study the bible and ask for God's spirit for revelation of the undiluted word.

I agree with Frosbel, that God is one and not a triune as we were erroneously taught. It pleases God to manifest as a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The three bear record in heaven as rightly put in the scriptures.

@Frosbel, the only question I have for you though its seemingly off track from this post,is why did the same disciples did majorly baptize in the name of Jesus as recorded in the bible and not in the name of the Father,Son, and Holy Spirit?

This is an avenue to learn please.I have always believed that learning is the antidote to ignorance and getting it right at the next attempt.More so, the knowledge embedded in the word of God is limitless!Jesus Christ is Lord!

To save time and to prevent me of the risk of repeating myself, I'll suggest that you peruse this weblink that I posted earlier, it answers your question.

http://www.joywell.org/apologetics/oneness.html

Okay , over the next few weeks, I will walk through your article and address each of the points starting NOW.

Next, let's compare what the Bible teaches. As will be shown later, the Bible teaches a Trinity of persons in the one Godhead. That is three persons but only one God. This view is called monotheism, because it holds to the view of only One True God.

False.

The Bible teaches all through scripture that GOD is ONE.

Mark 12:29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one

James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

Romans 3:30 [/b]since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

[b]1 Corinthians 8:4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is[u] no God but one.[/u]

Notice here, James and Paul mention ONE GOD , ONE, ONE not THREE , THREE.

How can 3 Persons = 1 Person

Not biblical at all.


Now consider the following verse :

Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

ONE GOD
Who is FATHER OF ALL

Not one GOD, who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Enigma: ^^^ Is Jesus "spirit" or not?

Jehovah, Jesus, angels, Satan and demons are spirits

Note: spirit in this context only tells us the form in which they exist

Humans on earth are in flesh form

Therefore, Jesus being a spirit does not mean he is the almighty God.

@Olaadegbu,

Thanks for the link anyway. It still does not change the fact that God is a spirit and this issue of personifying a spirit into three persons is pure human senses. More so, God can manifest in so many way it pleases the Almighty to do.

More so, the author is being defensive on his own opinions. I would rather we stick with the word of God, even though its mainly written in allegory,the truth remains that God is a spirit and one God and not three persons or personalities in a spirit.

I might not fully believe in oneness theology but therein lies some latent truth about their message.

This videoclip explains the trinity in dimensions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUy-H5MmeGU

For years Christians have struggled to give a clear explanation of the Trinity. However, this video does that, while at the same time refutes the idea that God could be a unitarian being. If God exists the only explanation is that He is a Trinity.

OLAADEGBU: This videoclip explains the trinity in dimensions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUy-H5MmeGU

I don't want comics , diagrams, or names of MOG , I need scripture.

My standard is the BIBLE not MEN.

Please address the points I raised.

@Frosbel,
Please I would like you to address my question on the point I earlier raised on water baptism formula by the disciples.

I am learning quite a lot of deal from you likewise Olaadegbu,Buzugee,et al even though there are some of your stance I might not fully come into grasps with.May the grace of God continually speak in your lifes!

frosbel:

Okay , so with OLAADEGBU's understanding , even though the bible says GOD is a Spirit, this is separate from the Holy Spirit. Strange I would say !

Try spinning this :

"but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God." - 1 Corinthians 2:10


But I am shocked that you use the Darby bible and possibly also the Schofield , seeing that these 2 men almost single handedly led the church into error , hence the reason for not a few doctrinal errors in the church today.

My friend , stop following deeper life doctrine, it is not infallible, this is the same mistake made by the Catholics, let us stick to the bible.

Good night .

you don't exactly have to stoop this low, taunting denominations.

frosbel:

I don't want comics , diagrams, or names of MOG , I need scripture.

My standard is the BIBLE not MEN.

Please address the points I raised.

These are not comics they are serious stuff, using John 1:1-2. Don't be afraid to click on it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlDoyEe1Nj8

OLAADEGBU:

These are not comics they are serious stuff, using John 1:1-2. Don't be afraid to click on it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlDoyEe1Nj8

So we are now using science to explain the trinity ,

SMH.

God never made simple things to be complex, you are making a non-issue into a mountain.

If you believe in the trinity, you may as well pray the Hail Mary, Rosary, and believe in transubstantiation.

frosbel:

So we are now using science to explain the trinity ,

SMH.

God never made simple things to be complex, you are making a non-issue into a mountain.

If you believe in the trinity, you may as well pray the Hail Mary, Rosary, and believe in transubstantiation.

This is to tell you that science actually confirms the Bible.

Enigma: ^^^ But He is not "spirit"?

Jesus was the express image of God, not a seperate person

Jesus himself said, If you have seen me, you have seen the Father

OLAADEGBU:

This is to tell you that science actually confirms the Bible.

Nay my friend, the bible needs no confirmation from science, you can only compare spiritual with the spiritual and natural with the natural.

"When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit's words to explain spiritual truths." - 1 Corinthians 2:13


Also there will be one throne in heaven, and Jesus will sit on it.

If there are three distinct persons then which one will sit on the throne, the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit.

I prefer to believe that there is one God, who was expressed as Father in creation, as Son in redemption, and as Holy Spirit in revelation. This does not require a rocket-science degree to figure out.


Peter must be a heretic by the way :

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

frosbel:


Jesus was the express image of God, not a seperate person

Jesus himself said, If you have seen me, you have seen the Father

Is Jesus "spirit" or not?

It is a rather simple and straightforward question!

frosbel:

Nay my friend, the bible needs no confirmation from science, you can only compare spiritual with the spiritual and natural with the natural.

"When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit's words to explain spiritual truths." - 1 Corinthians 2:13

Since you are finding it difficult to comprehend God's attributes it would be helpful for you to see how science has simplified it for us. God's creation does confirm the Creator. God's World confirms His Word.

frosbel:

Also there will be one throne in heaven, and Jesus will sit on it.

If there are three distinct persons then which one will sit on the throne, the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit.

I prefer to believe that there is one God, who was expressed as Father in creation, as Son in redemption, and as Holy Spirit in revelation. This does not require a rocket-science degree to figure out.

Have you read Psalm 110:1 that says:

"The LORD said, unto my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool"

Can you answer a couple of questions here?

Who was talking here?

To whom?

Who is to sit where? If you can tell.

OLAADEGBU:

Since you are finding it difficult to comprehend God's attributes it would be helpful for you to see how science has simplified it for us. God's creation does confirm the Creator. God's World confirms His Word.



Have you read Psalm 110:1 that says:

"The LORD said, unto my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool"

Can you answer a couple of questions here?

Who was talking here?

To whom?

Who is to sit where? If you can tell.

Okay , so there are 2 thrones in heaven , right ?

You are getting confused pal.

frosbel:

Okay , so there are 2 thrones in heaven , right ?

You are getting confused pal.

Can you answer those kweshuns my broda or at least explain what you mean by that verse? Abi na rocket science?

OLAADEGBU:

Can you answer those kweshuns my broda or at least explain what you mean by that verse? Abi na rocket science?

You skipped over my points and you expect me to answer yours,

Please when you are chanced , read my new article, one throne or 3.

Peace.

Let me answer your questions using articles that are both biblically and scientifically sound.

Sitting at the Right Hand of God

"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool" (Psalm 110:1).

The 110th Psalm is one of the most significant of the so-called Messianic Psalms, prophesying of Christ a thousand years before He came. Its very first verse should completely settle the question as to whether or not the Old Testament teaches that there is only one person in the Godhead, since it recounts an actual conversation between at least two Persons of the Godhead. This first verse is quoted, in whole or in part, at least five times in the New Testament and was even used by Christ Himself (Matthew 22:41-46) to prove His own deity.

Two of the Hebrew names for God are used in this verse: "Jehovah said unto Adonai. . . ." The name Jehovah is used again in Psalm 110:2-4, and Adonai in verse 5. God, in the person of Adonai, has gone to earth on a divine mission to save His people, but has been repudiated by His enemies on earth. Accordingly, God, in the person of Jehovah, invites Him back to heaven for a time, where He will be at His right hand until it is time for Him to return to earth to rule, striking through all opposing "kings in the day of his wrath" (v. 5).

In this coming "day of thy power" (v. 3), "thy people shall be willing." The word here is actually the word for "free will offerings." They will be as priests offering their own lives to Him as freewill offerings when they finally recognise Him as their Messiah/King and eternal High Priest (v. 4).

Now, although this prophecy applies specifically to the Second Coming and the future conversion of Israel, there is a beautiful secondary application used in Scripture for His people right now. "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service" (Romans 12:1). "Seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Colossians 3:1). HMM

I will also be using a helpful analogy by C.S. Lewis a former atheist who had come to the saving knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, in his book called Mere Christianity.

"You know that in space you can move in three ways – to left or right, backwards or forwards, up or down. Every direction is either one of these three or a compromise between them. They are called the three Dimensions. Now notice this. If you are using only one dimension, you could draw only a straight line. If you are using two, you could draw a figure: say, a square. And a square is made up of four straight lines. Now a step further. If you have three dimensions, you can then build what we call a solid body: say, a cube – a thing like a dice or a lump of sugar. And a cube is made up of six squares.

Do you see the point? A world of one dimension would be a straight line. In a two dimensional world, you still get straight lines, but many lines make one figure. In a three dimensional world, you still get figures but many figures make one solid body. In other words, as you advance to more real and more complicated levels, you do not leave behind you the things you found on the simpler levels: you still have them, but combined in new ways - in ways you could not imagine if you knew only the simpler levels.

Now the Christian account of God involves just the same principle. The human level is a simple level and rather empty level. On the human level one person is one being, and any two persons are two separate beings – just as, in two dimensions (say on a flat sheet of paper) one square is one figure, and any two squares are two separate figures. On the Divine level you still find personalities; but up there you find them combined in new ways which we, who do not live on that level, cannot imagine. In God’s dimension, so to speak, you find a being who is three Persons while remaining one Being, just as a cube is six squares while remaining one cube. Of course we cannot fully conceive a Being like that: just as, if we were so made that we perceived only two dimensions in space we could never properly imagine a cube. But we can get a sort of faint notion of it. And when we do, we are then, for the first time in our lives, getting some positive idea, however faint, of something super-personal – something more than a person. It is something we could never have guessed, and yet, once we have been told, one almost feels one ought to have been able to guess it because it fits in so well with all the things we know already.

You may ask, ‘If we cannot imagine a three-personal Being, what is the good of talking about Him. The thing that matters is being actually drawn into that three-personal life, and that may begin any time – tonight, if you like"

OLAADEGBU: Let me answer your questions using articles that are both biblically and scientifically sound.

Sitting at the Right Hand of God

"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool" (Psalm 110:1).

The 110th Psalm is one of the most significant of the so-called Messianic Psalms, prophesying of Christ a thousand years before He came. Its very first verse should completely settle the question as to whether or not the Old Testament teaches that there is only one person in the Godhead, since it recounts an actual conversation between at least two Persons of the Godhead. This first verse is quoted, in whole or in part, at least five times in the New Testament and was even used by Christ Himself (Matthew 22:41-46) to prove His own deity.

Two of the Hebrew names for God are used in this verse: "Jehovah said unto Adonai. . . ." The name Jehovah is used again in Psalm 110:2-4, and Adonai in verse 5. God, in the person of Adonai, has gone to earth on a divine mission to save His people, but has been repudiated by His enemies on earth. Accordingly, God, in the person of Jehovah, invites Him back to heaven for a time, where He will be at His right hand until it is time for Him to return to earth to rule, striking through all opposing "kings in the day of his wrath" (v. 5).

In this coming "day of thy power" (v. 3), "thy people shall be willing." The word here is actually the word for "free will offerings." They will be as priests offering their own lives to Him as freewill offerings when they finally recognise Him as their Messiah/King and eternal High Priest (v. 4).

Now, although this prophecy applies specifically to the Second Coming and the future conversion of Israel, there is a beautiful secondary application used in Scripture for His people right now. "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service" (Romans 12:1). "Seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Colossians 3:1). HMM

I will also be using a helpful analogy by C.S. Lewis a former atheist who had come to the saving knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, in his book called Mere Christianity.

"You know that in space you can move in three ways – to left or right, backwards or forwards, up or down. Every direction is either one of these three or a compromise between them. They are called the three Dimensions. Now notice this. If you are using only one dimension, you could draw only a straight line. If you are using two, you could draw a figure: say, a square. And a square is made up of four straight lines. Now a step further. If you have three dimensions, you can then build what we call a solid body: say, a cube – a thing like a dice or a lump of sugar. And a cube is made up of six squares.

Do you see the point? A world of one dimension would be a straight line. In a two dimensional world, you still get straight lines, but many lines make one figure. In a three dimensional world, you still get figures but many figures make one solid body. In other words, as you advance to more real and more complicated levels, you do not leave behind you the things you found on the simpler levels: you still have them, but combined in new ways - in ways you could not imagine if you knew only the simpler levels.

Now the Christian account of God involves just the same principle. The human level is a simple level and rather empty level. On the human level one person is one being, and any two persons are two separate beings – just as, in two dimensions (say on a flat sheet of paper) one square is one figure, and any two squares are two separate figures. On the Divine level you still find personalities; but up there you find them combined in new ways which we, who do not live on that level, cannot imagine. In God’s dimension, so to speak, you find a being who is three Persons while remaining one Being, just as a cube is six squares while remaining one cube. Of course we cannot fully conceive a Being like that: just as, if we were so made that we perceived only two dimensions in space we could never properly imagine a cube. But we can get a sort of faint notion of it. And when we do, we are then, for the first time in our lives, getting some positive idea, however faint, of something super-personal – something more than a person. It is something we could never have guessed, and yet, once we have been told, one almost feels one ought to have been able to guess it because it fits in so well with all the things we know already.

You may ask, ‘If we cannot imagine a three-personal Being, what is the good of talking about Him. The thing that matters is being actually drawn into that three-personal life, and that may begin any time – tonight, if you like"

Again you are quoting the opinions of Men on some wrested scripture.

I asked you a question, if God is 3 persons but ONE, how many thrones will there be in Heaven, 3 or 1 ?

Waiting for you answer !

frosbel:


Again you are quoting the opinions of Men on some wrested scripture.

I asked you a question, if God is 3 persons but ONE, how many thrones will there be in Heaven, 3 or 1 ?

Waiting for you answer !

How do you expect me to know the number of thrones (seats) that are in heaven? At least Revelation 11:16 says that 24 elders had seats.

Let us revisit Psalm 110:1 that you've been ducking and diving from and see what Bible commentators researched on:

Sitting at the Right Hand of God

"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool" (Psalm 110:1).

Psalm 110:1

110:1 LORD said unto my Lord. This verse means literally, “Jehovah said unto Adonai.” This is a remarkable conversation between two persons of the Godhead. This psalm is clearly a Messianic psalm, quoted as such at least twelve times in the New Testament. Note especially Matthew 22:43-45, where Christ specifically applies Psalm 110:1 to Himself, claiming that He is not just the son of David, but David’s Lord.

Psalm 110:1
110:1 right hand. Psalm 110:1 is quoted five times in the New Testament. Note, e.g., Hebrews 1:13: “But to which of the angels said He at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool” (also Mark 12:36; Luke 20:42; Acts 2:34). Clearly the psalm prophesies the rejection of Christ by His enemies, then His ascension to the right hand of God, there to wait until time for the subjugation of His enemies. This is the second (Psalm 16:11 is the first) of twenty-one Biblical references to Christ at the right hand of the Father. In addition to the seven already noted, there are seven in the epistles of Paul (Romans 8:34; Ephesians 1:20; Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 1:3; 8:1; 10:12; 12:2), and seven in the other books of the New Testament (Matthew 26:64; Mark 14:62; 16:19; Luke 22:69; Acts 7:55,56; I Peter 3:22).

OLAADEGBU:

How do you expect me to know the number of thrones (seats) that are in heaven? At least Revelation 11:16 says that 24 elders had seats.

Let us revisit Psalm 110:1 that you've been ducking and diving from and see what Bible commentators researched on:

Sitting at the Right Hand of God

"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool" (Psalm 110:1).

Psalm 110:1

So there are 2 not 3 ?

And why is that , surely with your 3 persons logic we should have 3 right ?

And why is it that all through the bible from the book of the prophets to revelation, we have mention of ONE throne, what happened to the second ONE.

OLAADEGBU:

If you truly read that site you will realise that the Jesus you worship is different from the Jesus of the Bible.

this is a big lie, if you want to know what catholic think about christ read the niceae creed. Hey u just cant tell me what i believe, i am the person who knows my faith not some protestant who cant make a reasonable arguement.

Muslims have been deceived as to what the trinity actually means because your church taught Mo that Mary is the third person in trinity, that is, the spouse of the Holy Spirit.

i cant believe that your hatred for the catholic church has also blinded your reasoning capacity. Never ever has the catholic church said that mary was part of the trinity. You are a dispenser of lies, but what can i expect from a protestant who cant see past his hatred. Ola if you want to make a case provide one church document that say 'mary is the third person of the trinity', if you cant then it will just confirm that you are the liar i have started to know you to be. Please if you are a christian stop telling lies.

Read more about this heresy in the link below if you may.

http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/rc126.htm

as usual your anti catholic site cant understand simple english. 'spouse' is a metaphor used to describe the relationship mary had with the holyspirit, if you are a good christain you should have something like that relationship, execpt that you wont concieve by the spirit.