frosbel:

So there are 2 not 3 ?

And why is that , surely with your 3 persons logic we should have 3 right ?

And why is it that all through the bible from the book of the prophets to revelation, we have mention of ONE throne, what happened to the second ONE.

did you miss the passage where the father tells his son 'sit at my right'? Or did you ignore it? Have you read in the bible that Jesus sits at the right hand of the father? Or did you ignore it? Did you read in hebrews when the father tells the son that 'your throne oh God is ...'? Or did you ignore it? The scripture tell us that at the side of the father the son also has a throne. It seem your forte is twisting scripture.

An argument without an end, that’s what this is. Yet the answer to the question is clear once people get willing to question the basis of their beliefs.

Now a person comes here with an unwavering faith in trinity, the he learns nothing, and he leaves the thread as confused as he came.

Some joker even mentioned Muslims as being confused/deceived, how many threads have Muslims opened to discuss trinity? We simply don’t have time for such confusion!

But indeed the answer to the question is clear, and everyone who believes in a supreme being would answer it himself. For the argument’s sake I ask; which is most likely:

God being One, easy to understand even to a person of average intelligence or a child, or
God being three, with son and holy spirit; becoming three in one?

And when you say to them to think deeply, about how God is not a biological entity and does not need a son, or any other proxies, that the concept of “son of God” was already a pre-existent Roman notion before the immaculate conception of the Messiah, that the messiah prayed and fasted and said that none should call him “good”, that the messiah performed miracles ( including raising the dead ) just like other prophets before him, and that the bible can not withstand rigorous appraisal of authorship, compilation, or originality of content,

The next thing you hear is that you need the holy spirit to understand it When one was given a brain! (would we accept the script that anyone brings saying we need some spirit to understand it?)

The truth is many objectively thinking Christians doubt the absoluteness of the truths in the bible but of course the Koran is not an option, who wants to associate with poor, polygamous suicide bombers (propaganda can be really effective). Hence atheists/agnostics continue to increase in number. I dare say were Jesus(peace be on him) to descend today just as he appeared while on earth, majority of Christians would doubt or just flatly deny him,
no use posting on a thread like this.

frosbel:

So we are now using science to explain the trinity ,

SMH.

God never made simple things to be complex, you are making a non-issue into a mountain.

If you believe in the trinity, you may as well pray the Hail Mary, Rosary, and believe in transubstantiation.

Frosbel recently u seem to have evolved into some new bible student with so much thinking....

I like that!!!!!

I have always told ola,and all trinitarians who aren't catholics to simply just be catholics.....

Why??

Because if 1 believes in d trinity dogma he or she can't escape d fact that mary shuld be worshiped.....

The mary worship doctrine and d trinity doctrine are 2 doctrines that must cling together......

They are inseperable.....

In all the trinity is d most confused doctrine I'v ever percieved.....

Its crazy.....

Y'all shuld remember Jesus words...

""Yahweh our God is 1 God""

Peace every1

Ravi Zakarias explains the concept of the holy trinity.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx1kwRWFDwI

OLAADEGBU: Ravi Zakarias explains the concept of the holy trinity.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx1kwRWFDwI

doctrines of men.


I need the bread of the word of GOD please !

ijawkid:

Frosbel recently u seem to have evolved into some new bible student with so much thinking....

I like that!!!!!

I have always told ola,and all trinitarians who aren't catholics to simply just be catholics.....

Why??

Because if 1 believes in d trinity dogma he or she can't escape d fact that mary shuld be worshiped.....

The mary worship doctrine and d trinity doctrine are 2 doctrines that must cling together......

They are inseperable.....

We should all be bible students, sitting at the feet of Jesus and learning.

Unfortunately many Christians sit at the feet of many esteemed , almost infallible MOG.

"He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight." - Luke 16:15

Blessings.

With the way i see things some peole will reward themself with everlasting life since they have the power to tell story that contradict the scriptures.

It is not a fact but falacy tha there are three gods.

Have any of those quoting 1John 5:7 ever made research to find out why Jesus never taught such?

Well, make research and u will find out that older manuscript dont have those passage but newer one have it, after the dead of the apostls and we know it is the handyworks of catholic monks. Toward 5th century ce.

Ok,

1. firstly, the bible at no place say that the holy spirit is a person. (otherwise show me)


2. Stephen look into heaven and saw Jesus sitting at the right hand of God (the holy spirit was missing. No referenc to it since it was not there, otherwise, oga holy spirit would have taken offence)


3. The word messiah or christ means annointed, did Jesus annoint himself?(anointing come from superior person to lower ones = Empower)


4. When Jesus died, are u saying there was no God in the univers for 3days?


5. Isaiah 9:6, a child is born and will be called mighty God. Jesus title is mighty God,
exodus 6:3 Yahweh(Jehovah) is refered to as almighty God.
Mighty and almighty is it the same? (people wickedness has made them in some translations to use Lord all through to loose this sense)

6. No man has seen God at anytime Jesus said, but we have seen Jesus (so u mean Jesus is a lier?)

7, if Jesus and his father are same, how come that he said, "that day and hour no one knows even the son"? Matt 24:36?

8. Read John 20:17. I "have not yet ascended to my father, ur God and my God"

8. Jesus prayed to his father, that things should take place according to the fathers will and not his own will (the night befor his death)

9. Jesus said that the father is greater then him.

10. The bible teach that Jesus will rule for a thousand years after wish he will hand over the kingdom to his father. (is he handing over the kingdom to himself)
etc, etc, etc

like i have said, some of u will have to reward urself, Jesus said he will dinied some people. Matt 6.21 to 23.
Due to lawlessness acts.
Peace

truthislight: With the way i see things some peole will reward themself with everlasting life since they have the power to tell story that contradict the scriptures.

It is not a fact but falacy tha there are three gods.

Have any of those quoting 1John 5:7 ever made research to find out why Jesus never taught such?

Well, make research and u will find out that older manuscript dont have those passage but newer one have it, after the dead of the apostls and we know it is the handyworks of catholic monks. Toward 5th century ce.

Ok,

1. firstly, the bible at no place say that the holy spirit is a person. (otherwise show me)


2. Stephen look into heaven and saw Jesus sitting at the right hand of God (the holy spirit was missing. No referenc to it since it was not there, otherwise, oga holy spirit would have taken offence)


3. The word messiah or christ means annointed, did Jesus annoint himself?(anointing come from superior person to lower ones = Empower)


4. When Jesus died, are u saying there was no God in the univers for 3days?


5. Isaiah 9:6, a child is born and will be called mighty God. Jesus title is mighty God,
exodus 6:3 Yahweh(Jehovah) is refered to as almighty God.
Mighty and almighty is it the same? (people wickedness has made them in some translations to use Lord all through to loose this sense)

6. No man has seen God at anytime Jesus said, but we have seen Jesus (so u mean Jesus is a lier?)

7, if Jesus and his father are same, how come that he said, "that day and hour no one knows even the son"? Matt 24:36?

8. Read John 20:17. I "have not yet ascended to my father, ur God and my God"

8. Jesus prayed to his father, that things should take place according to the fathers will and not his own will (the night befor his death)

9. Jesus said that the father is greater then him.

10. The bible teach that Jesus will rule for a thousand years after wish he will hand over the kingdom to his father. (is he handing over the kingdom to himself)
etc, etc, etc

like i have said, some of u will have to reward urself, Jesus said he will dinied some people. Matt 6.21 to 23.
Due to lawlessness acts.
Peace

Good points my bro.....

Yahweh said no one can see Him and yet live but people saw Jesus and didn't die....

D question is who did those on earth see ??
Yahweh or his son Jesus??

Since Jesus by many is said to be Yahweh then I wonder how come they culd see Jesus....

Good points .............

Also it is said Jesus is the image of d invincible God.....

Why would Jesus if he is Yahweh be d image of himself??

One can only be in d image of or the image of whom he is not......

ijawkid:

Frosbel recently u seem to have evolved into some new bible student with so much thinking....

I like that!!!!!

I have always told ola,and all trinitarians who aren't catholics to simply just be catholics.....

Why??

Because if 1 believes in d trinity dogma he or she can't escape d fact that mary shuld be worshiped.....

The mary worship doctrine and d trinity doctrine are 2 doctrines that must cling together......

They are inseperable.....

the usual ijawkid confusion, you dont even know the difference btw honor and worship. No catholic will ever tell u that he worships mary. Latria is due to God alone, dulia can be given to creatures. Learn before u critisize.

ijawkid: In all the trinity is d most confused doctrine I'v ever percieved.....

Its crazy.....

Y'all shuld remember Jesus words...

""Yahweh our God is 1 God""

Peace every1

the usual ijawkid problem, he doesnt understand yet he critisize. Yahve is one, the is one God, there is one ousia yet in one God there are 3 distinct persons, 3 manisfestation, 3 hypostasis.

Ubenedictus: the usual ijawkid problem, he doesnt understand yet he critisize. Yahve is one, the is one God, there is one ousia yet in one God there are 3 distinct persons, 3 manisfestation, 3 hypostasis.

From ya analogy u and frosbel agree but disagree @ d same time....


If Yahweh manifested as Jesus on earth,then it means Yahweh died....and then it also means there was 3-1 God in heaven.....
Then it means God died which is impossible...

Frosbel agrees Jesus is Yahweh but disagrees mary is d mother of Yahwe...

Frosbel agrees Jesus is Yahweh,but disagrees with u that there are 3 distinct persons that make up the 1 God......

Confusion go kukuma finish trinitarians and modalist........

Make ona dey confuse dey go.......

I dey relax dey dring beer......

ijawkid:

From ya analogy u and frosbel agree but disagree @ d same time....


If Yahweh manifested as Jesus on earth,then it means Yahweh died....and then it also means there was 3-1 God in heaven.....
Then it means God died which is impossible...

Frosbel agrees Jesus is Yahweh but disagrees mary is d mother of Yahwe...

Frosbel agrees Jesus is Yahweh,but disagrees with u that there are 3 distinct persons that make up the 1 God......

Confusion go kukuma finish trinitarians and modalist........

Make ona dey confuse dey go.......

I dey relax dey dring beer......

God through the Spirit , birthed a SON called Jesus Christ by his WORD , this WORD which was made flesh and dwelt among us .

On earth - Jesus Christ was a made a little lower than the angels for the sole purpose of tasting death for you and me, but in actual fact he was deity.



“But about the Son he says,Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”[e]
He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment. " - Hebrews 1:8-11

Hebrews 2:9
New International Version (NIV)
9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.


In heaven - Christ is the fullness of Deity in human immortalised form.

"to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen." - Jude 1:25

Here , God is called saviour through the Lord Jesus Christ.

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form," - Colossians 2:9


So now we have the man Christ Jesus who is our saviour , but we also have almighty God who sits on his throne, one God and one Saviour, but in essence ONE.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
For THE LORD JEHOVAH is One, and the faith is one, and the baptism is one

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

In this last scripture I quoted, tell me the difference between Christ and the Father , none !

Even the Jews at the time understood this, hence :

"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." - John 10:33

Ubenedictus: the usual ijawkid problem, he doesnt understand yet he critisize. Yahve is one, the is one God, there is one ousia yet in one God there are 3 distinct persons, 3 manisfestation, 3 hypostasis.

If you have never heard of trinity before, but happen to read the bible for the first time in your life, would you have jumped to the conclusion you are holding now regarding the natur of God?

Have you ever wondered when and how the word 'trinity' found it way to the lips and teachings of those professing to be christians?

Please, can you quote and explain the scripture(s) that support your claim of one God with three distinct persons?

Using my own bible sense though its not error poof, I would insist with all sincerity and simplicity that God is a spirit and it is totally illogical and not scriptural to typify a spirit with personality.

From scriptures, its obvious that the Almighty God was personified in Jesus Christ on earth.

Agreed that God manifests as a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.The Almighty God manifests in anyway it pleases the Almighty because God is limitless.

Maybe those MOGs and others who claim to have visited heaven in trance or other means could please help us out if Jesus Christ is indeed sitting on the right hand side of God.

Let me reiterate that most portions of the bible are written in allegory. We cannot take the face value as it seemingly looks.

I believe this is one area we are lagging behind in our present day churches. More so, most MOGs would rather foist their own opinions or beliefs on their sheep without allowing them to ask relevant questions.I have equally observed some MOGs run away from some of these burning issues in the bible for some obvious reasons-lack of biblical depth,follow-follow syndrome,materialism,etc.

The followers are equally at fault, perhaps due to the economic pressures of life and fast pace of life,all what we desire is miracles that are tied to material comforts.
Even the popular Sunday Schools or Bible teachings are taken for granted by (us) the followers.These activities within the church provide the ample opportunity for us to learn yet we ignore it. More so, we are habitually interested in being spoon-fed without spending our time on self-study of the bible.

I believe as knowledge is expanding in all frontiers,Christians must seek to unearth the truth in their belief systems otherwise atheism(agnosticism) would continually be on the rise.

Anyway, in all God has a plan for His children. More so, not all who claim to be Christians are God's children.

Our most fundamental prayer as Christians is that the Almighty counts us worthy to rest in His abode after our sojourn on earth.

May the Almighty God grant us all the much needed grace to follow the right path of life and His plans and purposes for our lif(v)es. Kindly, pardon the word(life or lives) usage here. Sometimes I get stuck with words and ideas as well. I am not oblivious of my fallibility as a man....lol....


@Frosbel, you are yet to address the water baptism formula question I raised.

I am learning a lot from your incisive posts. I would be glad you respond to it albeit your student(me) and others are equally learning from you and the likes of Oladegbu,Buzugee,Goshen360,Pastor Kun, et al.Thumbs up guys and ladies!

There is no controversy about the Lordship of Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ is still knocking on the doors of the hearts of men.The Lord is readily available to sup with you if only you can give Him access! Make hay while the sun shines!

I,myself, I am not perfect in all my ways but I look upto the Lord Jesus Christ for mercy while continually trying to work on my weaknesses.

A man by nature is naturally averse to doing the will of God, so it takes the grace of God to continually work around one's human weaknesses.

The initial and most fundamental action is to confess the Lordship of Jesus Christ albeit to kick-start the Christian journey.

To our Lord and only Saviour,Jesus Christ, be all the glory(Amen)!

Pax Vobiscum!

frosbel:


God through the Spirit , birthed a SON called Jesus Christ by his WORD , this WORD which was made flesh and dwelt among us .

On earth - Jesus Christ was a made a little lower than the angels for the sole purpose of tasting death for you and me, but in actual fact he was deity.



“But about the Son he says,Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”[e]
He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment. " - Hebrews 1:8-11

Hebrews 2:9
New International Version (NIV)
9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.


In heaven - Christ is the fullness of Deity in human immortalised form.

"to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen." - Jude 1:25

Here , God is called saviour through the Lord Jesus Christ.

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form," - Colossians 2:9


So now we have the man Christ Jesus who is our saviour , but we also have almighty God who sits on his throne, one God and one Saviour, but in essence ONE.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
For THE LORD JEHOVAH is One, and the faith is one, and the baptism is one

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

In this last scripture I quoted, tell me the difference between Christ and the Father , none !

Even the Jews at the time understood this, hence :

"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." - John 10:33

U were infact like d jews who culd nt decipher that Jesus was not d same with d father and that Yahweh was greater and different from Jesus......

They never spent time to read d psalms and books of d prophets to find out who was coming from heaven to(the messiah)..

If they had read isaiah well they would have understood that Jesus was Yahwehs loyal servant and son who was doing his Fathers will...

But as usual d pharisees were like many today who will look @ truths in front of them and turn there faces....


What was Jesus reply to d pharisees??

He replied"" ur wanting to stone me because I said I am the SON of GOD""

Was that not Jesus's reply to d pharisees??

Did he tell d pharisees he was Yahweh??

What was Jesus's reply to the samaritan woman as to who he was??

Read that ur bible well......

I want u to interprete 1 corinthians 15:27 $ 28...........

Modalism and trinity has confused d world for so long a time.......

How can Yahweh himself which u now claim to be Jesus(heretic though) claim :::

1 ...TO BE GREATER THAN HIMSELF
2....TO BE THE IMAGE OF HIMSELF
3....DIE??how can Yahweh die??then it means Satan became GOD of all for 3 days....
4....TO WORSHIP HIMSELF??Jesus worshipped Yahweh....If he was Yahweh himself he would nt need to worship anybody...Yahweh owes worship and reverence to no one.......


Common sense shuld solve this mystery u guys created....

I have asked u what u are...a trinitarian or a modalist??

1 corinthians 11;3 shuld end this ur mystery....

If Yahweh is head of Jesus just as Jesus is head of d man then u shuld as well say that man and Jesus are d same(2nity)......

1 man but appearing in 2.....

It means we are Jesus too...how do u enjoy that?

@frosbel......1 more question for u....

Is mary the mother of Yahweh and the holy spirit??

ijawkid:

U were infact like d jews who culd nt decipher that Jesus was not d same with d father and that Yahweh was greater and different from Jesus......

They never spent time to read d psalms and books of d prophets to find out who was coming from heaven to(the messiah)..

If they had read isaiah well they would have understood that Jesus was Yahwehs loyal servant and son who was doing his Fathers will...

But as usual d pharisees were like many today who will look @ truths in front of them and turn there faces....


What was Jesus reply to d pharisees??

He replied"" ur wanting to stone me because I said I am the SON of GOD""

Was that not Jesus's reply to d pharisees??

Did he tell d pharisees he was Yahweh??

What was Jesus's reply to the samaritan woman as to who he was??

Read that ur bible well......

I want u to interprete 1 corinthians 15:27 $ 28...........

Modalism and trinity has confused d world for so long a time.......

How can Yahweh himself which u now claim to be Jesus(heretic though) claim :::

1 ...TO BE GREATER THAN HIMSELF
2....TO BE THE IMAGE OF HIMSELF
3....DIE??how can Yahweh die??then it means Satan became GOD of all for 3 days....
4....TO WORSHIP HIMSELF??Jesus worshipped Yahweh....If he was Yahweh himself he would nt need to worship anybody...Yahweh owes worship and reverence to no one.......


Common sense shuld solve this mystery u guys created....

I have asked u what u are...a trinitarian or a modalist??

1 corinthians 11;3 shuld end this ur mystery....

If Yahweh is head of Jesus just as Jesus is head of d man then u shuld as well say that man and Jesus are d same(2nity)......

1 man but appearing in 2.....

It means we are Jesus too...how do u enjoy that?

With a humble mind , forget about your Jehovah's Witness bible and literature for a moment, read all the verses I quoted , read them again and address them point by point, that's what I do.

Don't ignore my comments and expect me to start responding to your questions.

ijawkid: @frosbel......1 more question for u....

Is mary the mother of Yahweh and the holy spirit??

Of course not.

But she was the mother of Jesus in human form, and while he was here on earth.

frosbel:

Of course not.

But she was the mother of Jesus in human form, and while he was here on earth.

Why is mary not d mother of Yahweh??

I thought from ur theory that Jesus was Yahweh in d human form??

If mary is d mother of Jesus which u say is Yahweh manifesting in d human form(God incarnate) then she is d mother of Yahweh...

Isn't it what this whole madness is about??

I'v told u not to bring Jehovahs witness into this issue....

Let's clear this crazy issue once and for all....

Wasn't Jesus God on earth??

Wasn't he Yahweh here on earth??

Please let's clear this madness now or never...

Answer these pertinent questions as they come....

I'v nt open my mouth to tell u I'm a witness...

Infact I was suspecting u were the one who was a Jehovahs witness after ur new posts on immortality of the soul and hell.......

So let's clear d air....

The theories of modalism and trinity have serious implications which @ d end of the day debunks them......

What's d difference between u and a catholic??

U believe Jesus is Yahweh while dey believe Jesus is God and that mary is d mother of God....

Who's more confused??

U want verse by verse analysis right??

Let me here from u what u understand from 1 corinthians 8:6 u quoted...

Is that place focusing on 2 persons or just 1....??

There tells us that d only true God or 1 God is God the Father...right??

While the 1 lord is Jesus...right??

Then that verse further tells us that it is from God d Father WHOM all things came into being....
While it was through Jesus THROUGH which all things came into being.....

Is there a difference in those above big lettered words??

Did that verse tell u Jesus is God the Father??

Wanna hear ur answer...

Remember I'v quoted other scriptures which ofcus I'm waiting for ur explanations...

We will dwell on 1st corinthians to solve this madness called modalism/trinity.....

1 corinthians 11:3
Tells us that in heaven Yahweh(The Father) is head of d christ just as Christ is head of Man.....

Start explaining why I shuldnt call my self Jesus....

Remember my stance is Yahweh is a different person from Jesus and that Yahweh is greater than Jesus....

That agrees with d bible from genesis to revelation......

I don't believe God died....

U hear me??

Its gonna be d most absurd thing for me to believe....

ijawkid: Remember my stance is Yahweh is a different person from Jesus and that Yahweh is greater than Jesus....

That agrees with d bible from genesis to revelation......

I don't believe God died....

U hear me??

Its gonna be d most absurd thing for me to believe....

You are getting all mixed up friend, no one said God died.

Do you read comments made by people on this forum or just ignore them and continue making false assumptions.

I truly have no time on this cloudy rainy day to argue with a Jehovah's Witness.

Jesus is LORD.

Thanks

[quote author=frosbel]

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
For THE LORD JEHOVAH is One, and the faith is one, and the baptism is one

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

In this last scripture I quoted, tell me the difference between Christ and the Father , none !

At Corinthians 8:6, the father, as usual, is distinct and different from his son, Jesus Christ. The father is the source of life (notice the words '...FROM whom all things came...’

Christ is the one the father used to create all things (notice the words '...THROUGH whom all things came...'
He was his father's craftsman or workman or master workman. Read proverbs 8:30 - JB, WEB, YLT, ASV

'FROM' = ‘the source’ or ‘the originator’
'THROUGH' ='by means of' or 'with the help of'
They are distinct and different.

If you build a house, using or ‘THROUGH’ your son, the house is ‘FROM’ you and belongs to you. You are, in fact, the builder and owner of the house. You are distinct and different from the one (your son) ‘THROUGH’ whom you build the house.

Whenever we talk of the creator, we are referring to Just ONE God, the God almighty, your heavenly father, who is also the heavenly father of Jesus Christ. Paul wanted true Christians to know that there is only ONE such God, the source of all things.

[quote author=Freksy]At Corinthians 8:6, the father, as usual, is distinct and different from his son, Jesus Christ. The father is the source of life (notice the words '...FROM whom all things came...’

Christ is the one the father used to create all things (notice the words '...THROUGH whom all things came...'
He was his father's craftsman or workman or master workman. Read proverbs 8:30 - JB, WEB, YLT, ASV

'FROM' = ‘the source’ or ‘the originator’
'THROUGH' ='by means of' or 'with the help of'
They are distinct and different.

"yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live" - 1 Corinthians 8:6

I re-quoted the scripture above for clarity , you will notice 2 things :

1. "one God, the Father, from whom all things came"
2. "Jesus Christ, through whom all things came "

so we agree on this , but the WORD is GOD and this WORD became FLESH, right ?

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."- John 1:14

To prove that the word is no different to GOD .

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the[u]Word was God.[/u]He was with God in the beginning Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." - John 1 : 1-3


GOD Confirms the deity of the SON by :


8 But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”[e]
10 He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”- Hebrews 1:8-12

1. God called the SON GOD - "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever"
2. Referred to Christ as his SON only because of the human aspect - "therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions "
3. Confirmation that GOD made the world but in reference to Christ , meaning one and the same - "In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,and the heavens are the work of your hands. "

Jesus was lower than GOD as a MAN , for the purpose of tasting death for us.

"Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped," - Philippians 2:6

If you build a house, using or ‘THROUGH’ your son, the house is ‘FROM’ you and belongs to you. You are, in fact, the builder and owner of the house. You are distinct and different from the one (your son) ‘THROUGH’ whom you build the house.

God built the house through his word, and his word is GOD.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the[u]Word was God.[/u]He was with God in the beginning Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." - John 1 : 1-3

1. He is the WORD
2. He was with GOD
3. He is GOD.
4. All things were made by HIM.

Whenever we talk of the creator, we are referring to Just ONE God, the God almighty, your heavenly father, who is also the heavenly father of Jesus Christ. Paul wanted true Christians to know that there is only ONE such God, the source of all things.

Agree , GOD is ONE , there cannot be THREE.

Agree also that GOD was the father of the HUMAN JESUS ( who by the way , ONLY took on humanity for our sakes to destroy death ).


But we also should admit that :

Jesus Christ pre-existed before his birth into humanity, actually , as the same and only TRUE GOD.

If you agree that Jesus pre-existed , then in what form or office.?

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]

Confusion all over d place....

That's why Jesus worshiped himself.....

ijawkid:

Confusion all over d place....

That's why Jesus worshiped himself.....

I made some little corrections read the above again.

Besides I am quoting scripture which you do not seem to be able to refute.

Debate like Fresky , with scripture.


And stop using that twisted Jehovah Witness Bible

frosbel:

I made some little corrections read the above again.

Besides I am quoting scripture which you do not seem to be able to refute.

Debate like Fresky , with scripture.


And stop using that twisted Jehovah Witness Bible

I am using the niv and jerusalem bible....

Imagine Jesus being a slave to himself acts 3:13
New International Version (NIV)
13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the
God of our fathers, has glorified his servant
Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and
you disowned him before Pilate, though he had
decided to let him go.
,,,,

Worshiping himself.......

Sending himself and then annointing himself...

And then greater than himself....

Wouldn't that be tantamount to one who's suffering from schizophrenia??...

If not why would Jesus worship himself??

Answer me........

Then u might as well add that Jesus suffered from amnesia for him not to had known when d end will come,but which only d Father knew.....
Of which from ur theory Jesus is the Father(Yahweh) but still culdnt and didn't know when d end wuld come.....

Rubbish doctrines that many believe in today just got me SMH

ijawkid:

I am using the niv and jerusalem bible....

Imagine Jesus being a slave to himself acts 3:13
New International Version (NIV)
13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the
God of our fathers, has glorified his servant
Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and
you disowned him before Pilate, though he had
decided to let him go.
,,,,

Worshiping himself.......

Sending himself and then annointing himself...

And then greater than himself....

Wouldn't that be tantamount to one who's suffering from schizophrenia??...

If not why would Jesus worship himself??

Answer me........

Then u might as well add that Jesus suffered from amnesia for him not to had known when d end will come,but which only d Father knew.....
Of which from ur theory Jesus is the Father(Yahweh) but still culdnt and didn't know when d end wuld come.....

Rubbish doctrines that many believe in today just got me SMH

Did JESUS CHRIST Pre-Exist ?

frosbel:

Did JESUS CHRIST Pre-Exist ?

Ofcus he did just like d angels pre-existed....

Abi??

He was a spirit creature in heaven b4 coming to d earth to do YAHWEH's will not HIS OWN will.....

If Jesus was Yahweh he wouldn't have to make that statement...

It would be contradictory to d fact that he's Yahweh.......

ijawkid:

Ofcus he did just like d angels pre-existed....

Abi??

He was a spirit creature in heaven b4 coming to d earth to do YAHWEH's will not HIS OWN will.....

If Jesus was Yahweh he wouldn't have to make that statement...

It would be contradictory to d fact that he's Yahweh.......

What did Jesus Christ exist as before he came ??


And whatever answers you provide MUST be backed by a minimum of 2 verses each from the bible, not the JW bible, from a real Bible.

thanks

[quote author=frosbel]


"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form," - Colossians 2:9

A consideration of the context of Colossians 2:9 clearly shows that having “Godhead,”(KJ) or “deity,”(NET) or “divinity,”(Latin Vulgate) or “divine quality,”(NT) does not make Christ the same as God the Almighty.
NOTE: Some translations read “Godhead” and “deity,” which Trinitarians and the likes interpret to mean that God personally dwells in Christ. (KJ, WEB, BBE, ASV, YLT, DARBY, WEBSTER, RS, NAB, NET)

Was the apostle Paul there saying that the “fullness” that was in Christ made Christ God himself? Not at all!
In the preceding chapter, Paul says: “God saw good for all fullness to dwell in him.” (Col 1:19) Thus the fullness dwells in Christ because it “pleased the Father” (KJ, DY) or “because it was by God’s choice.” (NE)
So the fullness of “divinity” (Latin Vulgate) that dwells in Christ is his as a result of a decision made by the Father.

Further showing that having such “fullness” does not make Christ the same person as Almighty God is the fact that Paul later speaks of Christ as being “seated at the right hand of God.” – Col.3:1.

Col. 2: 13 - 15 explain that Christians are made alive through faith, being released from the Law covenant. Paul’s argument, therefore, is that Christians do not need the Law (which was removed by means of Christ) or human philosophy and tradition.

WHY?
Because they have all they need, a precious “fullness” in Christ.