MrMaestro:
When and how did this “Igbo” identity start? And what was the reason behind it?

The history of "Igbo identity" is complex, but I will try to sum it up. For some people who have conversed with me here on NL, this may sound like a repeat (but I think it is worth repeating).

Igbo identity is the end product of two thing. 1) The effort Europeans put into classifying and grouping communities for the purpose of effective colonial administration. 2) The shared Biafran experience. #2 is more significant than #1, but #1 actually drew the initial boundaries.

Thanks to the efforts of colonial administration, British anthropologists and ethnographers, we got a categorical definition of what "Igbo" was. For example, it is because of their effort that (Naija politics notwithstanding) we can easily recognize an "Igbo group". It's not hard, and this is thanks to the categorical definition that they provided. By the 1920s, nationalism was starting to develop in Nigeria. We saw our first set of "Igbo Union" during this period. So at this time, it was clear that some people starting to accept the categorical definition to describe themselves.

The Biafran experience is when it really solidified. The categorical definition was finally transformed into an ethnic definition by the end of the war. Igbo people (categorical definition) provided this ethnic definition by themselves, and have continued to perpetuate it (in an often fanatical manner).

So there isn't a single "starting point". It's really just the culminating effect of various events in the past.

Ekealterego:


imembaN = Osagyefo98 = Maleszenawi = Yyseke = Juliusmalema and his 60 other monikers.

True.
Very easy to notice.
He is an Aboki.

Ekealterego:

Sometimes I don't know what is responsible for your archiac views. You all around the internet crying about "Ngwa identity" as if there is any nation in the world even with a homogenous country where there are no regional identity, culture and language.

You are usually blind about where to draw the line or the on which platform to discuss them.. What is shameful is that most of you are so archaic in your thoughts that you lack to tact to discuss it in a public platform like Nairaland where hate, and vultures are ever looking for the most minute of things to exergerate and fight you..

At the end of the day, do you think if you are fighting a common enemy, that they will spare you because you hold on to a "slight difference"

If you are so vocal about your Identity, what will people who were more historically stronger with a more reverred history like Arochukwu in the same Abia state will do? The same Aros that "Aba" was named after?
What is so unique to Ngwa that you left your Ngwa Facebook groups to discuss that you hold on to so tight even before enemies on this platform.


Just so you know also, your talk about "Igbo ethnic identity" holds the same for ALL large ethnic groups in the WORLD.
Ethnic English people didn't come from one single progenitor, neither are Italian or Ethnic Germans but you see, even the ethnic Germans that find themselves in Austria, Luxemburg, Switzerland, etc knew what was up.

Chose appropriate platform to champion your Ngwacentric Igbo views, it is only wisdom. You don't find Yoruba people who are even way more diverse disgracing themselves here in that manner.


Igboid, you remember when I debated with you that ChinenyeN and the rest of those generation on Nairaland caused more harm than good right? That's why we respect MNK.

ChinenyeN has always been shortsighted. The good thing is that she is only a woman and not a man, so her opinion starts and ends here.
I had many confrontation with him on his clannish sentiments in the past.
Pay her no attention. Her opinion starts and ends in NL.

Igboid:


True.
Very easy to notice.
He is an Aboki.

Gagwo you should be ashamed of yourself.

How many years you have been here writing nonsense yet no meaningful outcome...

Ifele should be your second name anyway.

Writing rubbish while Ipob sliced down four of your youths in ogidi in broad day light.

Well continue your epistles after all Paul wrote his and we are still reading.

Nothing changed..

ChinenyeN:


The history of "Igbo identity" is complex, but I will try to sum it up. For some people who have conversed with me here on NL, this may sound like a repeat (but I think it is worth repeating).

Igbo identity is the end product of two thing. 1) The effort Europeans put into classifying and grouping communities for the purpose of effective colonial administration. 2) The shared Biafran experience. #2 is more significant than #1, but #1 actually drew the initial boundaries.

Thanks to the efforts of colonial administration, British anthropologists and ethnographers, we got a categorical definition of what "Igbo" was. For example, it is because of their effort that (Naija politics notwithstanding) we can easily recognize an "Igbo group". It's not hard, and this is thanks to the categorical definition that they provided. By the 1920s, nationalism was starting to develop in Nigeria. We saw our first set of "Igbo Union" during this period. So at this time, it was clear that some people starting to accept the categorical definition to describe themselves.

The Biafran experience is when it really solidified. The categorical definition was finally transformed into an ethnic definition by the end of the war. Igbo people (categorical definition) provided this ethnic definition by themselves, and have continued to perpetuate it (in an often fanatical manner).

So there isn't a single "starting point". It's really just the culminating effect of various events in the past.

Bla bla bla and more bla.
70years old woman like you, age hasn't bestowed wisdom on you yet.

When will you grow up? Igbo haters using you to play ludo.

Osagyefo98:


Gagwo you should be ashamed of yourself.

How many years you have been here writing nonsense yet no meaningful outcome...

Ifele should be your second name anyway.

Writing rubbish while Ipob sliced down four of your youths in ogidi in broad day light.

Well continue your epistles after all Paul wrote his and we are still reading.

Nothing changed..

Mugu. Achike death was politically motivated and has nothing to do with IPOB.

Once you hear Igbo, amu gi akwulu oto ka nwa Mkpi.
Agadi na agwo ofe, ifele eme.
Onye melu yi ifea anwugo!
Tufia! Obulu ogwu na oma elene nata!

Igboid:


Mugu. Achike death was politically motivated and has nothing to do with IPOB.

Once you hear Igbo, amu gi akwulu oto ka nwa Mkpi.
Agadi na agwo ofe, ifele eme.
Onye melu yi ifea anwugo!
Tufia! Obulu ogwu na oma elene nata!

Diayi enwerom efe ghu, I only conditioned you to the chair you belong.... countless epistles.

Tomorrow fa ga abia gbuo your king and umu Anuofia will Tell us it was politically motivated.

I don't blame you, I blame heavens because Iligo ifelemechi.

Nzuzu on freestyle.

Osagyefo98:


Diayi enwerom efe ghu, I only conditioned you to the chair you belong.... countless epistles.

Tomorrow fa ga abia gbuo your king and umu Anuofia will Tell us it was politically motivated.

I don't blame you, I blame heavens because Iligo ifelemechi.

Nzuzu on freestyle.

Aboki na Asu Igbo.

Atalom gi. Igbo Amaka.
Even Jesus na Asu Igbo.

Ekealterego, you've interacted with me on this platform long enough to know that I don't care about this argument of "hide conversations from enemies on this platform" or "they will spare you because of claiming a 'slight difference'". Please, you should know better than that.

I obviously believe that anyone who want to attack a person or people will simply attack a person or people. Whether or not the victim thinks themselves exempt is of no consequence, because the aggressor doesn't care what the victim thinks. So whether Ngwa is "Igbo" or Ngwa is "not Igbo", any aggression on the southeast will invariably affect Ngwa. That is obvious.

But that is irrelevant for me, because "slight difference" is not the basis by which I make my statements. You, and many others, should know this.

Now, let me respond to some strange comments by you.

Ekealterego:
Sometimes I don't know what is responsible for your archiac views. You all around the internet crying about "Ngwa identity" as if there is any nation in the world even with a homogenous country where there are no regional identity, culture and language.

Ngwa isn't even a homogenous group. Please, don't expend your breath on this amateur point. My views have nothing to do with homogeneity.

Ekealterego:
You are usually blind about where to draw the line or the on which platform to discuss them.. What is shameful is that most of you are so archaic in your thoughts that you lack to tact to discuss it in a public platform like Nairaland where hate, and vultures are ever looking for the most minute of things to exergerate and fight you..

Again, I don't care about this need by some Igbo people like yourself to "hide" or be overly concerned by "enemies on this platform".

Ekealterego:
At the end of the day, do you think if you are fighting a common enemy, that they will spare you because you hold on to a "slight difference"

I already explained this. Anyone that wants to be an aggressor will be an aggressor. "Slight difference" or "big difference" doesn't change anything.

Ekealterego:
If you are so vocal about your Identity, what will people who were more historically stronger with a more reverred history like Arochukwu in the same Abia state will do?

This is an amateur argument. I've already said that the Igbo-speaking communities should be free to maintain their own ethnic identies. What makes you think I will be concerned if Aro decides to do so?

Ekealterego:
The same Aros that "Aba" was named after?

This is one of the least insightful comments I have ever heard from you on this platform. That said, it seems you want to position yourself as someone who is familiar with Ngwa history and oral tradition. Left with me, I will say that this one statement shows you really don't know anything about Ngwa history and oral traditions, but I am a man who likes to give people the benefit of the doubt. So how about it? Do you want to dive into this topic and compare notes? I'm open if you are.

Ekealterego:
What is so unique to Ngwa that you left your Ngwa Facebook groups to discuss that you hold on to so tight even before enemies on this platform.

Amateur argument. Again, you know that my stance isn't about "uniqueness" and "slight difference". It is simple self-determination. I urge you to not forget that.

Ekealterego:
Just so you know also, your talk about "Igbo ethnic identity" holds the same for ALL large ethnic groups in the WORLD.

Another amateur argument made by Igbo people. There is this need to compare one's situation to someone elses, as though it matters. I've said it before on this platform, trying to draw a comparison of the Igbo context to another, unrelated community's context is a useless endeavor. Why? Because at the end of the day, the Igbo communities you are discussing are under no obligation to follow another ethnic community's model. The only thing that matters is the actions Igbo communities take with respect to their different desires of self-determination.

Ekealterego:
Chose appropriate platform to champion your Ngwacentric Igbo views, it is only wisdom. You don't find Yoruba people who are even way more diverse disgracing themselves here in that manner.

Again, comparing someone's context to someone elses. It's amateur. Perhaps you aren't in Yoruba circles, but they disgrace and argue among themselves a lot.

Ekealterego:
Igboid, you remember when I debated with you that ChinenyeN and the rest of those generation on Nairaland caused more harm than good right? That's why we respect MNK.

I remember this conversation. I still think all that bandwith was (at the end of the day) well-spent. Sometimes we only have the luxury of evaluating things after the fact/in hindsight. When I evaluate the development that occurred on NL, because of my willingness to consistently challenge the lack of self-reflection, lack of honesty and general Igbo propanda here on this platform, I am pleased.

Igboid:


Aboki na Asu Igbo.

Atalom gi. Igbo Amaka.
Even Jesus na Asu Igbo.

When caught in their ssssttttuuuuppppiddddity they will start looking for name tag.

All evidences and product of born inferiority complex.

All your family problems were caused by Aboki.

Ipob intellectuals on the loose.

Igboid:
ChinenyeN has always been shortsighted. The good thing is that she is only a woman and not a man, so her opinion starts and ends here.
I had many confrontation with him on his clannish sentiments in the past.
Pay her no attention. Her opinion starts and ends in NL.

Misogyny and misgendering. Igboid, you've been on this platform and interacted with me for a long time, but you want to troll with the gender pronouns you use for me. The Igbo identity and Igbo destiny is not safe in the hands of people like you. I've said this before in the past, it is people like you that will end up being the root cause for why any of this falls apart.

am Igbo
But that those not give my follow Igbo to insult my cities Aba and my clan Ngwa.we all are one stop the nonsense already

ChinenyeN:


The history of "Igbo identity" is complex, but I will try to sum it up. For some people who have conversed with me here on NL, this may sound like a repeat (but I think it is worth repeating).

Igbo identity is the end product of two thing. 1) The effort Europeans put into classifying and grouping communities for the purpose of effective colonial administration. 2) The shared Biafran experience. #2 is more significant than #1, but #1 actually drew the initial boundaries.

Thanks to the efforts of colonial administration, British anthropologists and ethnographers, we got a categorical definition of what "Igbo" was. For example, it is because of their effort that (Naija politics notwithstanding) we can easily recognize an "Igbo group". It's not hard, and this is thanks to the categorical definition that they provided. By the 1920s, nationalism was starting to develop in Nigeria. We saw our first set of "Igbo Union" during this period. So at this time, it was clear that some people starting to accept the categorical definition to describe themselves.

The Biafran experience is when it really solidified. The categorical definition was finally transformed into an ethnic definition by the end of the war. Igbo people (categorical definition) provided this ethnic definition by themselves, and have continued to perpetuate it (in an often fanatical manner).

So there isn't a single "starting point". It's really just the culminating effect of various events in the past.

This is trash.
A total Bullcrap

ChinenyeN:


The history of "Igbo identity" is complex, but I will try to sum it up. For some people who have conversed with me here on NL, this may sound like a repeat (but I think it is worth repeating).

Igbo identity is the end product of two thing. 1) The effort Europeans put into classifying and grouping communities for the purpose of effective colonial administration. 2) The shared Biafran experience. #2 is more significant than #1, but #1 actually drew the initial boundaries.

Thanks to the efforts of colonial administration, British anthropologists and ethnographers, we got a categorical definition of what "Igbo" was. For example, it is because of their effort that (Naija politics notwithstanding) we can easily recognize an "Igbo group". It's not hard, and this is thanks to the categorical definition that they provided. By the 1920s, nationalism was starting to develop in Nigeria. We saw our first set of "Igbo Union" during this period. So at this time, it was clear that some people starting to accept the categorical definition to describe themselves.

The Biafran experience is when it really solidified. The categorical definition was finally transformed into an ethnic definition by the end of the war. Igbo people (categorical definition) provided this ethnic definition by themselves, and have continued to perpetuate it (in an often fanatical manner).

So there isn't a single "starting point". It's really just the culminating effect of various events in the past.

Considering the year you registered in nairaland.
I must say that you gave me a pure chip (Am 20).
But I tell you........ your shallow reasoning and the jejune dust in your encephalon is outer planet Earth.
Sorry for this.......... you reason like a kid.
Writes epistle full of trivalish bunkum.
A foool at forty (if only you ain't more than forty) is indeed a fool forever....

Eastlandx:
This is trash.
A total Bullcrap

It's always easy to spot someone who hasn't engaged in any real analysis of Igbo culture, language, history or identity. I encourage you to engage yourself in some research. In particular, I am recommending the following works:

Anthropology and colonial administration in Southeastern Nigeria by A. E. Afigbo (in fact, the entirety of the Ropes of Sand sindication, if you can find copies of them from Nsukka).

The role of ethnic unions in the development of Southern Nigeria by Austin Ahanotu

Among the Ibos by Thomas Basden

Bible Translation and Language Elaboration: The Igbo Experience by Uchenna Oyali

The Ibo Language report from the Archive of the Colonial Office in the U.K.

Research Work in the Ibo Region from the Archive of the Colonial Offic in the U.K. (there are at least two of these.

In Search of an Igbo Identity by Dmitri van den Bersselaar

Report on Ibo Language by Mr. N. W. Thomas, 1913 from the National Archives of Nigeria

Report on Ibo Union 1938 - 1955 from the National Archives of Nigeria

In fact, there are many more that I can share, but this should keep you busy initially and help you expand your learning and understanding of Igbo culture, language, history and identity.

Sergio101:
Considering the year you registered in nairaland.
I must say that you gave me a pure chip (Am 20).
But I tell you........ your shallow reasoning and the jejune dust in your encephalon is outer planet Earth.
Sorry for this.......... you reason like a kid.
Writes epistle full of trivalish bunkum.
A foool at forty (if only you ain't more than forty) is indeed a fool forever....

It seems you also will need some recommendations. Feel free to start with the same list I recommended to someone else.

ChinenyeN:

It's always easy to spot someone who hasn't engaged in any real analysis of Igbo culture, language, history or identity. I encourage you to engage yourself in some research. In particular, I am recommending the following works:

Anthropology and colonial administration in Southeastern Nigeria by A. E. Afigbo (in fact, the entirety of the Ropes of Sand sindication, if you can find copies of them from Nsukka).

The role of ethnic unions in the development of Southern Nigeria by Austin Ahanotu

Among the Ibos by Thomas Basden

Bible Translation and Language Elaboration: The Igbo Experience by Uchenna Oyali

The Ibo Language report from the Archive of the Colonial Office in the U.K.

Research Work in the Ibo Region from the Archive of the Colonial Offic in the U.K. (there are at least two of these.

In Search of an Igbo Identity by Dmitri van den Bersselaar

Report on Ibo Language by Mr. N. W. Thomas, 1913 from the National Archives of Nigeria

Report on Ibo Union 1938 - 1955 from the National Archives of Nigeria

In fact, there are many more that I can share, but this should keep you busy initially and help you expand your learning and understanding of Igbo culture, language, history and identity.

ChinenyeN:
Ekealterego, you've interacted with me on this platform long enough to know that I don't care about this argument of "hide conversations from enemies on this platform" or "they will spare you because of claiming a 'slight difference'". Please, you should know better than that.

I obviously believe that anyone who want to attack a person or people will simply attack a person or people. Whether or not the victim thinks themselves exempt is of no consequence, because the aggressor doesn't care what the victim thinks. So whether Ngwa is "Igbo" or Ngwa is "not Igbo", any aggression on the southeast will invariably affect Ngwa. That is obvious.

But that is irrelevant for me, because "slight difference" is not the basis by which I make my statements. You, and many others, should know this.

Now, let me respond to some strange comments by you.


Ngwa isn't even a homogenous group. Please, don't expend your breath on this amateur point. My views have nothing to do with homogeneity.


Again, I don't care about this need by some Igbo people like yourself to "hide" or be overly concerned by "enemies on this platform".


I already explained this. Anyone that wants to be an aggressor will be an aggressor. "Slight difference" or "big difference" doesn't change anything.


This is an amateur argument. I've already said that the Igbo-speaking communities should be free to maintain their own ethnic identies. What makes you think I will be concerned if Aro decides to do so?



This is one of the least insightful comments I have ever heard from you on this platform. That said, it seems you want to position yourself as someone who is familiar with Ngwa history and oral tradition. Left with me, I will say that this one statement shows you really don't know anything about Ngwa history and oral traditions, but I am a man who likes to give people the benefit of the doubt. So how about it? Do you want to dive into this topic and compare notes? I'm open if you are.


Amateur argument. Again, you know that my stance isn't about "uniqueness" and "slight difference". It is simple self-determination. I urge you to not forget that.


Another amateur argument made by Igbo people. There is this need to compare one's situation to someone elses, as though it matters. I've said it before on this platform, trying to draw a comparison of the Igbo context to another, unrelated community's context is a useless endeavor. Why? Because at the end of the day, the Igbo communities you are discussing are under no obligation to follow another ethnic community's model. The only thing that matters is the actions Igbo communities take with respect to their different desires of self-determination.


Again, comparing someone's context to someone elses. It's amateur. Perhaps you aren't in Yoruba circles, but they disgrace and argue among themselves a lot.


I remember this conversation. I still think all that bandwith was (at the end of the day) well-spent. Sometimes we only have the luxury of evaluating things after the fact/in hindsight. When I evaluate the development that occurred on NL, because of my willingness to consistently challenge the lack of self-reflection, lack of honesty and general Igbo propanda here on this platform, I am pleased.

I had hoped for a more insightful reply but 90% of your replies gave no answers but were dismissive of hard facts.

When I discuss, I draw parallels and give examples. You know why, arguments, logics, statistics and progress all draws from Relativism. When discussing about "ethnicity", you draw parallel and take your example and prove your points based on "ethnicity". It is commonsense 101.

No one is holding you from speaking up for your people and culture. In fact it is good and great but you guys just lack the wisdom, maturity or the self-awareness to navigate such discussions on a platform like this. If anyone needs to mine negative information about Yoruba groups and their intra-ethnic dynamics, you will probably need to disguise, sneak into their tightly locked platforms before you can hold on to anything. On the other hand, all we need to do to mine same information about you guys is just to type any of your names and that generation of Igbo nairalanders. It was such a disgrace what we witnessed then.

On the ABA naming issues, yes, maybe you will need to dig deeper into Igbo history. "ABA" is not the only "ABA" based place-names in Igbo land. There are 1000s of them in Alaigbo. The most popular ones being, ABAtete, ABAgana, ABAkiliki. These were all Aro or Aro-allied originated or influenced settlements.

These are not the only common names they have. The Abam groups too share this same history with Aros because they worked together too especially in the establishment of new settlements.

The "NDI" based names were also common features of Abam, Aros and to some extent ohofia settlements. These were used to distinguish the place they settled in from the UMUs and AMAs. usually, Igbos would refer people outside their ingroups as "Ndi". These Ndis are usually smaller hamlets or villages. Like Ndi-Okekere or Ndi-Okoro.

Just in case you doubt this, remember that popular Igbo settlements were based around either smithing, medicine, markets (exotic goods, crafts, etc) and the Aros/Abams were highly influential in this regards.

I am glad we have gladiators like Bkayy, slayerforever and the rest who have in a year or two cleaned up the mess and disgrace you guys created here over the years

And again, Nairaland is a dying platform. On Facebook and other social media like Facebook, large Igbo centric groups with some numbering up to 1 million members have risen to foster an understanding between Igbo subgroups. While seeing the huge connections and appreciating our individual beauty and we end up, celebrating it together as a common win for the Igbo race.

While these large Igbo groups are so successful and fun, the subgroups also have their groups to discuss umunna talks, culture, history and unique challenges each sub-groups are facing.

That's the beauty of today's social media and you know what, divisive people who pick up minute things to exergerate like yours are treated with hostility.

The reason I give MNK credit for this was that, it didn't exist before now, these knowledge were the exclusive possession of a few but now it is commercialised to young, passionate and vibrant Igbo youths. MNK started the commercialisation of this knowledge and lighted up the fire in the hearts of the average Igbo youths in the streets and social media and our parents at home.

ChinenyeN:

It's always easy to spot someone who hasn't engaged in any real analysis of Igbo culture, language, history or identity. I encourage you to engage yourself in some research. In particular, I am recommending the following works:

Anthropology and colonial administration in Southeastern Nigeria by A. E. Afigbo (in fact, the entirety of the Ropes of Sand sindication, if you can find copies of them from Nsukka).

The role of ethnic unions in the development of Southern Nigeria by Austin Ahanotu

Among the Ibos by Thomas Basden

Bible Translation and Language Elaboration: The Igbo Experience by Uchenna Oyali

The Ibo Language report from the Archive of the Colonial Office in the U.K.

Research Work in the Ibo Region from the Archive of the Colonial Offic in the U.K. (there are at least two of these.

In Search of an Igbo Identity by Dmitri van den Bersselaar

Report on Ibo Language by Mr. N. W. Thomas, 1913 from the National Archives of Nigeria

Report on Ibo Union 1938 - 1955 from the National Archives of Nigeria

In fact, there are many more that I can share, but this should keep you busy initially and help you expand your learning and understanding of Igbo culture, language, history and identity.

The problem is that you assume that these are exclusive knowledge of yours.

Now, I see where your problem lies, you don't actually read history or much aware of cultural evolution no understand the evolution of ethnic cohesion. And even if you know, you do not know how to apply that knowledge.

For all history, no ethnicity started as one homogenous, mono-cultural creation. However, things events in history like a common enemy, famine, rise of a dominant religion or powerful empire can arise to bind these people together. However an underlying factor behind the success of such ethnic powers and it's sustainability is usually "language".

"Italy" were just kingdoms with no sense of national cohesion until the rise of powers in Europe made them see the need to unite based on the similarities that bind them together. Same with the German ethnic group. The English people understand their differences very well.. from the Northener in Newcastle to the Scouser to the Southerner in London.
However, England as a cohesive ethnic group conquered the world.

Ekealterego:
The problem is that you assume that these are exclusive knowledge of yours.

Now, I see where your problem lies, you don't actually read history or much aware of cultural evolution no understand the evolution of ethnic cohesion. And even if you know, you do not know how to apply that knowledge.

For all history, no ethnicity started as one homogenous, mono-cultural creation. However, things events in history like a common enemy, famine, rise of a dominant religion or powerful empire can arise to bind these people together. However an underlying factor behind the success of such ethnic powers and it's sustainability is usually "language".

"Italy" were just kingdoms with no sense of national cohesion until the rise of powers in Europe made them see the need to unite based on the similarities that bind them together. Same with the German ethnic group. The English people understand their differences very well.. from the Northener in Newcastle to the Scouser to the Southerner in London.
However, England as a cohesive ethnic group conquered the world.

Ekealterego, you can’t be serious. I will just let my post history on NL, especially in the culture section, speak for me on this. I’ve had this same sort of conversation with many others in the past.

ChinenyeN:


Ekealterego, you can’t be serious. I will just let my post history on NL, especially in the culture section, speak for me on this. I’ve had this same sort of conversation with many others in the past.

How are you ChinenyeN. Long time

Ekealterego:
I had hoped for a more insightful reply but 90% of your replies gave no answers but were dismissive of hard facts.

Perhaps you are not getting it. Of course my response is dismissive, because I what I’m saying to you is that you are wrongly assuming what the basis for my views are. Because if this wrong assumption, we cannot actually have a conversation, because we will ultimately not even be on the same page from the start. You are bringing up a number of ancillary things that do not represent my position.

If you really want a substantive response from me, you would first examine the core of my view, being self-determination. This is the only thing I’ve been saying. Everything else about enemies, differences, uniqueness, etc is not my actual point.

aljharem:
How are you ChinenyeN. Long time

Enyi, as we say in Ngwa, o nogbala odo ahu. It has been a long time indeed. How body?

ChinenyeN:


Perhaps you are not getting it. Of course my response is dismissive, because I what I’m saying to you is that you are wrongly assuming what the basis for my views are. Because if this wrong assumption, we cannot actually have a conversation, because we will ultimately not even be on the same page from the start. You are bringing up a number of ancillary things that do not represent my position.

If you really want a substantive response from me, you would first examine the core of my view, being self-determination. This is the only thing I’ve been saying. Everything else about enemies, differences, uniqueness, etc is not my actual point.

.
What do you mean by "self-determination? Maybe you can elaborate?

Ekealterego:

The problem is that you assume that these are exclusive knowledge of yours.

Now, I see where your problem lies, you don't actually read history or much aware of cultural evolution no understand the evolution of ethnic cohesion. And even if you know, you do not know how to apply that knowledge.

For all history, no ethnicity started as one homogenous, mono-cultural creation. However, things events in history like a common enemy, famine, rise of a dominant religion or powerful empire can arise to bind these people together. However an underlying factor behind the success of such ethnic powers and it's sustainability is usually "language".

"Italy" were just kingdoms with no sense of national cohesion until the rise of powers in Europe made them see the need to unite based on the similarities that bind them together. Same with the German ethnic group. The English people understand their differences very well.. from the Northener in Newcastle to the Scouser to the Southerner in London.
However, England as a cohesive ethnic group conquered the world.

Nice one. Absolutely on point

ChinenyeN:


Perhaps you are not getting it. Of course my response is dismissive, because I what I’m saying to you is that you are wrongly assuming what the basis for my views are. Because if this wrong assumption, we cannot actually have a conversation, because we will ultimately not even be on the same page from the start. You are bringing up a number of ancillary things that do not represent my position.

If you really want a substantive response from me, you would first examine the core of my view, being self-determination. This is the only thing I’ve been saying. Everything else about enemies, differences, uniqueness, etc is not my actual point.

Well, the problem is, Ndi Ngwa are way too Igbocentric to go towards the direction you are seeking. Too stubborn to even go towards the direction you seek. Another problem you might encounter is that Ngwaland is now too cosmopolitan and weaves well into the ethnic progress.
Ngwa is too obsessed with IPOB and MNK to even entertain your dreams. Generally they don't share that sentiments.
Ngwa are also one of the most Igbotic group out there, most behave like Abaribe. I guess this is what you are rebelling against.

Ekealterego:

Well, the problem is, Ndi Ngwa are way too Igbocentric to go towards the direction you are seeking. Too stubborn to even go towards the direction you seek. Another problem you might encounter is that Ngwaland is now too cosmopolitan and weaves well into the ethnic progress.
Ngwa is too obsessed with IPOB and MNK to even entertain your dreams. Generally they don't share that sentiments.
Ngwa are also one of the most Igbotic group out there, most behave like Abaribe. I guess this is what you are rebelling against.

What is happening here is exactly the problem with Abia state. The tribalism I have been advocating against.
I wonder why they haven't seen that this tribalism is the main problem why their state is in shambles.

Honestly, left for me I will advocate that they repartition the state except that I don't see much difference except if Ngwá might be partitioned with Ikwerre but that will bring about the case of two captain in one ship.

I don't know what brought about this Shameless tribalism they allowed to eat deep within them.

Mr ChinenyeN, I have two question for you.

1. Do you see this tribalism within you guys in Abia ending anytime soon?
2. Don't you think that this tribalism is the rock blocking the development in Abia state?

BKayy:


What is happening here is exactly the problem with Abia state. The tribalism I have been advocating against.
I wonder why they haven't seen that this tribalism is the main problem why their state is in shambles.

Honestly, left for me I will advocate that they repartition the state except that I don't see much difference except if Ngwá might be partitioned with Ikwerre but that will bring about the case of two captain in one ship.

I don't know what brought about this Shameless tribalism they allowed to eat deep within them.

Mr ChinenyeN, I have two question for you.

1. Do you see this tribalism within you guys in Abia ending anytime soon?
2. Don't you think that this tribalism is the rock blocking the development in Abia state?

Are you seriously taking what this one is saying here seriously? She is just an outlier in Alangwa. There is nothing like tribalism in Abia state.. I can tell you for free.. There might be politics played by politicians but tribalism is nothing.

Except maybe Ngwa, Ndoki and the Aros, there is no one big clannish homogenous sub group in Abia state...
There is no strong cohesive sense to a particular sub-group large enough to offset anything. Even the people they call, "Ndi Ogbo" (the "Old Bende people) that seem to have a cabal of politicians headed by OUK do not have the power to even use tribalism as a tool to power.

The subgroups with a sense of clan unity like Ngwa and Ndoki do not have any strong political might despite their size.

You have to understand, Abia state politics is more like a party cabal rather than a community or tribe based power.
The Bende people for instance do not have a strong cohesive attachment to "Bende" as a cluster but rather to communities or alliance of communities like the Igbere/Alayi/Item. and sometimes you can't even tell where it starts and end. For instance, the Igbere/Alayi/Item cluster speak similar language and behave in similar fashion to the Abariba in Ohafia LGA and feel way more kinship with them than to the Itumbuso people in the same Local government.

Politics there is about the stomach and usually no tribe have such a great influence. If that was the case, Ngwa would have been governor since the inception of the state. Even despite the alliance with Ndoki in their "Ukwa la Ngwa", they still did not have much power to change much.

You have to understand again, Abia state is a very Igbocentric state. Aba is a confluence of many Igbos and the Igbo consciousness burns there more than anywhere else... If another MNK rises tomorrow, trust me it will be from those axis. Probably from Arochukwu, cos those guys are burning and just seeking an opportunity to turn the trajectory of Igbo history.

Don't be deceived by ChinenyeN, if any Ngwa man discover what she is saying here, they might forgive her but they might eat you for thinking the rubbish she parrots here is true.

...and don't be deceived by the inneptitude of the governors, if you come to Igbo villages/towns from Igbere, Alayi to Abariba, you will marvel at the cluster of massive housing projects there.

This is truly unbelievable, Ekealterego. Three Ngwa people have independently expressed (to varying degrees of intensity) the idea of Ngwa people being suspicious of Igbo, but it is I (who hasn’t even said anything controversial) that you want to point at and dismiss. It’s pretty clear to me that you are falling into the same trap of making assumptions about who I am and what I believe. This same trap has been doing Igbo people on this platform for over a decade.

ChinenyeN:
This is truly unbelievable, Ekealterego. Three Ngwa people have independently expressed (to varying degrees of intensity) the idea of Ngwa people being suspicious of Igbo, but it is I (who hasn’t even said anything controversial) that you want to point at and dismiss. It’s pretty clear to me that you are falling into the same trap of making assumptions about who I am and what I believe. This same trap has been doing Igbo people on this platform for over a decade.

See bros, you are a loner. You speak as if no Igbo person know Ngwa..

After all your years shouting hoarse, can't you see that what you are doing is a lost mission? Give up already.

Let me throw you a simple challenge.

Bkayy, Slayerforever so you can just see a simple experiment. I am willing to bet with ChinenyeN.

Enter Ngwa Rant HQ and go to Ngwa unity Front. Go and type.

"Ngwa are not Biafra", "Ngwa needs to be alone" or whatever.

She will be booted out immediately. Just try and sneak in, 99% of their prayers, discussions are either about Biafra, MNk or Abia politics.

ChinenyeN is a lone voice.

.

Ekealterego:
What do you mean by "self-determination? Maybe you can elaborate?

Given the fact that you are aware of the Nigerian socio-political climate, I shouldn’t have to explain self-determination to you. But alas, I will try to be open since I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

What I mean by self-determination (within the Igbo context) is simple. There is a degree of borderline paranoia that some people (mostly nationalistic Igbo) have when it comes to the idea of “Igbo unity” and “Igbo identity”. I am not concerned about whether such borderline paranoia is warranted or unwarranted. Anyone who knows anything about Nigerian history is aware of the root of it, and for someone like me, I find this borderline paranoia to be generally warranted. However, that does not make it healthy.

Considering the length of time that this response has been allowed to perpetuate and considering the sort of discourse it has brewed, I find it toxic. It is one thing if the appropriate communities within the Lower Niger shared (or even at minimum, respected) this response as a part of the general consensus. But they don’t.

This borderline paranoia is in direct conflict with the very sentiment of self-determination that we know is characteristic of the Lower Niger. The events of the past 100 years have shown that such self-determination has not died. As a result, all we have is tension, angst and disgruntled people everywhere. Here is a (perhaps reductive) way to concisely express this dichotomy.

On one end, we have the individuals and communities who at one point living in relative peace and identifying how they pleased, because identity was a fluid concept. People were free to determine what that meant for them. We can call this Camp A.

On the other end, we have individuals who a yearning for an unprecedented amount of single-mindedness going to the extent of expecting and demanding adherence to a concrete set of identities. We can call this Camp B.

These two concepts are in direct odds with one another. The mere existence of one means you cannot have the other. This is not a situation where one can have one’s cake and eat it too. At this point, it should be easy to see why we have such controversy. These two philosophies cannot co-exist, and anyone who says that they can is simply being dishonest. We have experienced almost 60 years of enmity in the Lower Niger region due to this simply dichotomy of views. It should be evident that this is a problem.

Now, that is the synopsis of the basis of my views. Here is where my actual personal views come in. The only thing I care about in this world is agency. Human beings, communities, peoples, should have the agency to choose. This agency is the core of self-determination. A while back, I was discussing with someone here on NL about identity, how it morphs and changes due to context and time. I made one specific comment in that conversation.

The agency to create and morph identities is more important to me than the identity in question. I might live out my life and die as an Ngwa man, but my descendants in maybe 200 or 300 years may end up with a different identity and have no idea what Ngwa (or even Igbo) ever was. That is life. Agency at work.

Because agency is what I care about, I side with Camp A. Protecting self-determination means more to me than the current, toxic idea of “Igbo identity” and “Igbo unity” that certain people (Igbo nationalists) are parroting.

This was a long answer, but I hope it is clear to you what I mean by self-determination.

It is very important that you read and maybe reread this post of mine for comprehension. For far too long, Igbo people here on NL have been walking around making assumptions about my worldview. So if you, Ekealterego, and I are to ever have a meaningful discussion, you’ll need to not make those same, incorrect assumptions and actually take the time to understand what my worldview actually is.