Ekealterego:

See bros, you are a loner. You speak as if no Igbo person know Ngwa..

After all your years shouting hoarse, can't you see that what you are doing is a lost mission? Give up already.

Let me throw you a simple challenge.

Bkayy, Slayerforever so you can just see a simple experiment. I am willing to bet with ChinenyeN.

Enter Ngwa Rant HQ and go to Ngwa unity Front. Go and type.

"Ngwa are not Biafra", "Ngwa needs to be alone" or whatever.

She will be booted out immediately. Just try and sneak in, 99% of their prayers, discussions are either about Biafra, MNk or Abia politics.

ChinenyeN is a lone voice.

ChinenyeN:

Given the fact that you are aware of the Nigerian socio-political climate, I shouldn’t have to explain self-determination to you. But alas, I will try to be open since I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

What I mean by self-determination (within the Igbo context) is simple. There is a degree of borderline paranoia that some people (mostly nationalistic Igbo) have when it comes to the idea of “Igbo unity” and “Igbo identity”. I am not concerned about whether such borderline paranoia is warranted or unwarranted. Anyone who knows anything about Nigerian history is aware of the root of it, and for someone like me, I find this borderline paranoia to be generally warranted. However, that does not make it healthy.

Considering the length of time that this response has been allowed to perpetuate and considering the sort of discourse it has brewed, I find it toxic. It is one thing if the appropriate communities within the Lower Niger shared (or even at minimum, respected) this response as a part of the general consensus. But they don’t.

This borderline paranoia is in direct conflict with the very sentiment of self-determination that we know is characteristic of the Lower Niger. The events of the past 100 years have shown that such self-determination has not died. As a result, all we have is tension, angst and disgruntled people everywhere. Here is a (perhaps reductive) way to concisely express this dichotomy.

On one end, we have the individuals and communities who at one point living in relative peace and identifying how they pleased, because identity was a fluid concept. People were free to determine what that meant for them. We can call this Camp A.

On the other end, we have individuals who a yearning for an unprecedented amount of single-mindedness going to the extent of expecting and demanding adherence to a concrete set of identities. We can call this Camp B.

These two concepts are in direct odds with one another. The mere existence of one means you cannot have the other. This is not a situation where one can have one’s cake and eat it too. At this point, it should be easy to see why we have such controversy. These two philosophies cannot co-exist, and anyone who says that they can is simply being dishonest. We have experienced almost 60 years of enmity in the Lower Niger region due to this simply dichotomy of views. It should be evident that this is a problem.

Now, that is the synopsis of the basis of my views. Here is where my actual personal views come in. The only thing I care about in this world is agency. Human beings, communities, peoples, should have the agency to choose. This agency is the core of self-determination. A while back, I was discussing with someone here on NL about identity, how it morphs and changes due to context and time. I made one specific comment in that conversation.

The agency to create and morph identities is more important to me than the identity in question. I might live out my life and die as an Ngwa man, but my descendants in maybe 200 or 300 years may end up with a different identity and have no idea what Ngwa (or even Igbo) ever was. That is life. Agency at work.

Because agency is what I care about, I side with Camp A. Protecting self-determination means more to me than the current, toxic idea of “Igbo identity” and “Igbo unity” that certain people (Igbo nationalists) are parroting.

This was a long answer, but I hope it is clear to you what I mean by self-determination.

It is very important that you read and maybe reread this post of mine for comprehension. For far too long, Igbo people here on NL have been walking around making assumptions about my worldview. So if you, Ekealterego, and I are to ever have a meaningful discussion, you’ll need to not make those same, incorrect assumptions and actually take the time to understand what my worldview actually is.

ChinenyeN:

Given the fact that you are aware of the Nigerian socio-political climate, I shouldn’t have to explain self-determination to you. But alas, I will try to be open since I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

What I mean by self-determination (within the Igbo context) is simple. There is a degree of borderline paranoia that some people (mostly nationalistic Igbo) have when it comes to the idea of “Igbo unity” and “Igbo identity”. I am not concerned about whether such borderline paranoia is warranted or unwarranted. Anyone who knows anything about Nigerian history is aware of the root of it, and for someone like me, I find this borderline paranoia to be generally warranted. However, that does not make it healthy.

Considering the length of time that this response has been allowed to perpetuate and considering the sort of discourse it has brewed, I find it toxic. It is one thing if the communities within the appropriate Lower Niger communities shared (or even at minimum, respected) this response as a part of the general consensus. But they don’t.

This borderline paranoia is in direct conflict with the very sentiment of self-determination that we know is characteristic of the Lower Niger. The events of the past 100 years have shown that such self-determination has not died. As a result, all we have is tension, angst and disgruntled people everywhere. Here is a (perhaps reductive) way to concisely express this dichotomy.

On one end, we have the individuals and communities who at one point living in relative peace and identifying how they pleased, because identity was a fluid concept. People were free to determine what that meant for them. We can call this Camp A.

On the other end, we have individuals who a yearning for an unprecedented amount of single-mindedness going to the extent of expecting and demanding adherence to a concrete set of identities. We can call this Camp B.

These two concepts are in direct odds with one another. The mere existence of one means you cannot have the other. This is not a situation where one can have one’s cake and eat it too. At this point, it should be easy to see why we have such controversy. These two philosophies cannot co-exist, and anyone who says that they can is simply being dishonest. We have experienced almost 60 years of enmity in the Lower Niger region due to this simply dichotomy of views. It should be evident that this is a problem.

Now, that is the synopsis of the basis of my views. Here is where my actual personal views come in. The only thing I care about in this world is agency. Human beings, communities, peoples, should have the agency to choose. This agency is the core of self-determination. A while back, I was discussing with someone here on NL about identity, how it morphs and changes due to context and time. I made one specific comment in that conversation.

The agency to create and morph identities is more important to me than the identity in question. I might live out my life and die as an Ngwa man, but my descendants in maybe 200 or 300 years may end up with a different identity and have no idea what Ngwa (or even Igbo) ever was. That is life. Agency at work.

Because agency is what I care about, I side with Camp A. Protecting self-determination means more to me than the current idea of “Igbo identity” and “Igbo unity” that certain people (Igbo nationalists) are parroting.

This was a long answer, but I hope it is clear to you what I mean by self-determination.

SlayerForever:
I don't discuss about such stupid subjects and I don't bother about it either.

Ngwa and indeed no other Igbo group will ever go the Ikwerre way again going forward na aha Chukwu Okike. All those seeking a separate identity do so for self serving purposes. They are usually very dubious, doublefaced and chronic underachievers. It is never really about what another Igbo group did or didn't do.

Instead of separating, more lost or unknown Igbo groups will begin to identify with the larger Igbo nation. Isee.

Igbogaadigide.

ChinenyeN:


The history of "Igbo identity" is complex, but I will try to sum it up. For some people who have conversed with me here on NL, this may sound like a repeat (but I think it is worth repeating).

Igbo identity is the end product of two thing. 1) The effort Europeans put into classifying and grouping communities for the purpose of effective colonial administration. 2) The shared Biafran experience. #2 is more significant than #1, but #1 actually drew the initial boundaries.

Thanks to the efforts of colonial administration, British anthropologists and ethnographers, we got a categorical definition of what "Igbo" was. For example, it is because of their effort that (Naija politics notwithstanding) we can easily recognize an "Igbo group". It's not hard, and this is thanks to the categorical definition that they provided. By the 1920s, nationalism was starting to develop in Nigeria. We saw our first set of "Igbo Union" during this period. So at this time, it was clear that some people starting to accept the categorical definition to describe themselves.

The Biafran experience is when it really solidified. The categorical definition was finally transformed into an ethnic definition by the end of the war. Igbo people (categorical definition) provided this ethnic definition by themselves, and have continued to perpetuate it (in an often fanatical manner).

So there isn't a single "starting point". It's really just the culminating effect of various events in the past.

ImembaN:
...
Their are the real Igbos..
and their are those that Nigeria classified as Igbo...
The only real Igbos can be found in the present day Enugu state...
The reason I did not present my point in any other way is because i don't want to speak for THE OTHER NON IGBOS IN SOUTH EAST...
ie: Aro, Urata, Isoma etc...
Even the Anambra that parades themselves as real Igbos are actually ADO... (find the meaning of Ado)
That why you hear of names like ONITSHA ADO.... the real Onitsha is in Delta state...
Even the so called Nri is an IGALA PRINCE...
BUT I DON'T WANT TO EXPOSE THEM...

RedboneSmith:


I want to know the two people that liked this jumble of misinformation. Lol. Your other monikers?

In earlier comments on other threads, you displayed some knowledge of Ngwa culture and language, and I was ready to accept you for who you said you were: an Ngwa man. But since then you've said quite a lot that I just cannot believe a southeasterner can say. Not necessarily the bit about Ngwa not being Igbo, but other things.

This thing about Enugu being the real Igbos, Anambra being 'Ado' (whatever that means), etc etc. sounds exactly like the things some non-Igbos I have argued with say on this platform when they try to get under the skin of Igbos. I have my suspicions about who you really are, but I will continue to watch you.

RedboneSmith:


I want to know the two people that liked this jumble of misinformation. Lol. Your other monikers?

In earlier comments on other threads, you displayed some knowledge of Ngwa culture and language, and I was ready to accept you for who you said you were: an Ngwa man. But since then you've said quite a lot that I just cannot believe a southeasterner can say. Not necessarily the bit about Ngwa not being Igbo, but other things.

This thing about Enugu being the real Igbos, Anambra being 'Ado' (whatever that means), etc etc. sounds exactly like the things some non-Igbos I have argued with say on this platform when they try to get under the skin of Igbos. I have my suspicions about who you really are, but I will continue to watch you.

ChinenyeN:


The history of "Igbo identity" is complex, but I will try to sum it up. For some people who have conversed with me here on NL, this may sound like a repeat (but I think it is worth repeating).

Igbo identity is the end product of two thing. 1) The effort Europeans put into classifying and grouping communities for the purpose of effective colonial administration. 2) The shared Biafran experience. #2 is more significant than #1, but #1 actually drew the initial boundaries.

Thanks to the efforts of colonial administration, British anthropologists and ethnographers, we got a categorical definition of what "Igbo" was. For example, it is because of their effort that (Naija politics notwithstanding) we can easily recognize an "Igbo group". It's not hard, and this is thanks to the categorical definition that they provided. By the 1920s, nationalism was starting to develop in Nigeria. We saw our first set of "Igbo Union" during this period. So at this time, it was clear that some people starting to accept the categorical definition to describe themselves.

The Biafran experience is when it really solidified. The categorical definition was finally transformed into an ethnic definition by the end of the war. Igbo people (categorical definition) provided this ethnic definition by themselves, and have continued to perpetuate it (in an often fanatical manner).

So there isn't a single "starting point". It's really just the culminating effect of various events in the past.

ChinenyeN:

It's always easy to spot someone who hasn't engaged in any real analysis of Igbo culture, language, history or identity. I encourage you to engage yourself in some research. In particular, I am recommending the following works:

Anthropology and colonial administration in Southeastern Nigeria by A. E. Afigbo (in fact, the entirety of the Ropes of Sand sindication, if you can find copies of them from Nsukka).

The role of ethnic unions in the development of Southern Nigeria by Austin Ahanotu

Among the Ibos by Thomas Basden

Bible Translation and Language Elaboration: The Igbo Experience by Uchenna Oyali

The Ibo Language report from the Archive of the Colonial Office in the U.K.

Research Work in the Ibo Region from the Archive of the Colonial Offic in the U.K. (there are at least two of these.

In Search of an Igbo Identity by Dmitri van den Bersselaar

Report on Ibo Language by Mr. N. W. Thomas, 1913 from the National Archives of Nigeria

Report on Ibo Union 1938 - 1955 from the National Archives of Nigeria

In fact, there are many more that I can share, but this should keep you busy initially and help you expand your learning and understanding of Igbo culture, language, history and identity.

RedboneSmith:


I want to know the two people that liked this jumble of misinformation. Lol. Your other monikers?

In earlier comments on other threads, you displayed some knowledge of Ngwa culture and language, and I was ready to accept you for who you said you were: an Ngwa man. But since then you've said quite a lot that I just cannot believe a southeasterner can say. Not necessarily the bit about Ngwa not being Igbo, but other things.

This thing about Enugu being the real Igbos, Anambra being 'Ado' (whatever that means), etc etc. sounds exactly like the things some non-Igbos I have argued with say on this platform when they try to get under the skin of Igbos. I have my suspicions about who you really are, but I will continue to watch you.

ImembaN:
...
I don't know why you choose to be diplomatic to fellows who don't deserve it...
Even ABARIBE was shoned by one King in Nvosi (I'm gonna hide his name) for trying to shield umu OHNUHNU because this is what the can never do for an Ngwa man....
In real life i have lost friends because of my view on my identity...and I have made new once mostly from IKA and IKWERRE...
I was surprised that the also know that not all in South East is Igbo...

Favour623:
Ngwa people are 100% in support of Biafra.those of u saying that Ngwa is not Ipob should stop already it will not help.n some are trying to say that Aba-Ngwa people originated from the Aro clan pls try and visit google.Aba Ngwa people are originated from Owerri zone.n for your information all the rumour about Ngwa are all lie,Ngwa people are naturally strong n hard working people.

Osagyefo98:



All these trash has it changed the piggery system of living in Aba?

Someone will be living like ezibida and his land filthy like a latrine will still come online and be forming James bond?

Are you okay?


What is so special in all these filth, dirtiness littered everywhere that you are here boasting

What is exactly are you proud of?

Is it the stinking nature of Aba/Abia state or the decayed nature of the already dead Land.

Who will even want to associate with such filthy system of living.

Kataway you...

Ndi ala

ImembaN:
..
I don't think you can approach me in real life or can you walk through my gate..
Intellectual wise you are not my equivalent neither are you my class..

Why is it difficult for you guys to participate in a discussion without throwing tantrums..

ImembaN:
..
I don't think you can approach me in real life or can you walk through my gate..
Intellectual wise you are not my equivalent neither are you my class..

Why is it difficult for you guys to participate in a discussion without throwing tantrums..

SlayerForever:



I have ended that discussion with her years ago. I don't even read her comments as regards that subject.


But this new monicker running amuck may be her. And it's a sign she may be getting desperate.

Osagyefo98:



Ngwa is not Igbo and Ngwa is not biafra. Get the point let's stop beating around the bush.

Ndigbo are not known for eating human flesh as can be seen in that area.

The clear distinction of Igbo character is what is full display here. Be guided.

Ngwa is neither Igbo nor biafra.

Favour623:
u can say everything u want to say.all i no is that Ngwa people does not eat human flesh,Ngwa people eat human flesh and they are still the most populous clan in south east nigeria,only people that does not know Ngwa will believe that

Favour623:
u can say everything u want to say.all i no is that Ngwa people does not eat human flesh,Ngwa people eat human flesh and they are still the most populous clan in south east nigeria,only people that does not know Ngwa will believe that

SlayerForever:



I have ended that discussion with her years ago. I don't even read her comments as regards that subject.


But this new monicker running amuck may be her. And it's a sign she may be getting desperate.

Nigercity:

Why are you even replying those two idiots
Both of them are not even from South East!

ImembaN:
...
I'm not ChinenyeN...
As you can see DOZIE NGWA IS ONLINE...
bro you don't know me..

Osagyefo98:


Are you okay?

Is South east a state?

We have 36 states and there is nothing like south east in it.

Nigercity:


Off my mention
This should be the first/last time am replying you
See what Igbo obsession has ruined your life too! At this your age, you still don't have anything meaningful, you have achieved

Go get yourself a life
And never you in your miserable life
Slide my mention on this forum again!

Now run along am
Done replying you....

Nigercity:
Why are you even replying those two idiots Both of them are not even from South East!
They are just here deceiving themselves, one person comments, they other reply They have same agenda But am more interested in the one,that says his from ngwa.. I would like to meet him in ABA This Xmas, Make I teach am small lesson

Favour623:
u can say everything u want to say.all i no is that Ngwa people does not eat human flesh,Ngwa people eat human flesh and they are still the most populous clan in south east nigeria,only people that does not know Ngwa will believe that

Nigercity:


They are just so obsessed
About anything Igbo
The envy us, alot
That's why they are trying so hard to create an imaginary division, forgetting that ABA is the only city where central Igbo is spoken by majority....
The more, they hate we Igbos
They more we progress..
2morrow the same idiots will open another account and start saying, mbaise is not Igbo, abiriba is not Igbo e.t.c
They paint one group bad
Just to cause division

I wonder why people are this jobless...
But I will like to use one as a scape goat..
They one that is calming Aba imembaN...

I want him to show up in alangwa,
Alangwa...
So he can repeat the nonesense he is saying here

Nigercity:


They are just so obsessed
About anything Igbo
The envy us, alot
That's why they are trying so hard to create an imaginary division, forgetting that ABA is the only city where central Igbo is spoken by majority....
The more, they hate we Igbos
They more we progress..
2morrow the same idiots will open another account and start saying, mbaise is not Igbo, abiriba is not Igbo e.t.c
They paint one group bad
Just to cause division

I wonder why people are this jobless...
But I will like to use one as a scape goat..
They one that is calming Aba imembaN...

I want him to show up in alangwa,
Alangwa...
So he can repeat the nonesense he is saying here