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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? (21001 Views)
Another Proof That The New Testament Is Not The Word Of God / A Lot Of People Say The New Testament Is Fake / Yisraylite, How Come You Believe Dat D New Testament Is Fake (2) (3) (4)
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Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by Nobody: 11:42am On Oct 03, 2014 |
alexleo: I am so sorry to say that you have abandoned your earlier stand. Wasn't it you who said God has planned everything right from the beginning? How can man exercise free will in a predestined world? I will accept that Adam exercised free will if only you accept that God did not know that Adam was going to eat the fruit. Of course, if you make choices, there are consequences. But when the choices you make are already known before you were even born, then it is not free will. You are only acting out what was already expected of you. Free will involves multiple choices independent of coercion. 1 Like |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by PastorAIO: 12:12pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
Ubenedictus: this thread is getting interesting now. 1 Like |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by PastorAIO: 12:44pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
hifaif post=/post/26822140: Herein lies the heart of the issue. There is a need, a desperate need, to assume a position of absolute knowledge. Instead of honestly trying to attain the position or at least admitting that it is not possible, we resort instead to sleight of hands and dodgy arguments to support an untenable position. I've even heard arguments trying to discredit science by saying that scientists are always coming up with new theories and changing their position. Whereas religionists always maintain their position. I don't know how that, the fact that a position is amenable to changing when facts present themselves, makes something less true. If anything it should make it's position stronger than the position that does not consider new facts. It is simply a matter of intellectual honesty and integrity. God is not something that we can know or grasp. We can try, but if you think that you've pinned God down then you'll be setting yourself up for a shock. Repeated shocks. There are two parts to this Free Will issue. The Free part, and the Will part. what do we mean by Free? Are the choices God makes truly free, or are they bound to by his character. ie. are there things that God will typically do and things that he wouldn't do? Anybody that knows me would tell you that if you were to put chocolate down on one plate, and marzipan on another and tell me to choose one, if they truly know me they will know that I am more likely to choose the marzipan. Knowledge leads to prognosis. If you know me you'll be able to predict my behaviour. Does God have Character? Likes, dislikes, behavioural patterns, features? If so then his/her choices would be bound to his/her character. that is not totally free. There are things therefore that God just wouldn't/couldn't do. Then there is the question of who created God's features and characteristics. God himself? ie Self creating. Then what informed his decisions to create himself the way he did? You see how these questions are taking us beyond the levels that our intellect can reach. The honest answer to these questions is 'I don't know'. I don't know why it is so hard for my christian brethren to say these three little words. Then there is the Will part? If God's Will is absolute then can there by any other Wills in the universe? An absolute Will cannot be thwarted in anyway. Whatever happens must be in accord with this absolute will. If there are other wills, i.e. human will, then that will must necessarily be impotent since the will of God is absolute. Nothing can happen other than what God wills. However if Human will is not impotent, then God's will cannot be absolute. 9 Likes 3 Shares |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by PastorAIO: 12:50pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
Then there is the notion that God created all the possibilities and every possible universe exists in parallel to themselves. This raises ontological questions of when we can say something exists or not. Can possibilities be said to exist? In what sense? How do we compare their existence to the existence of Actualities. |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by Weah96: 1:39pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
hifaif post=/post/26829134: Tell am o. 1 Like |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by sheunfemix: 2:16pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
OooohhHh #stamping my feet# PastorAIO has made me come back to this tread again!! Pastor, u have said it all well. But one thing with is pple like the Op is dat they will still want to ask questions from the simple explanation u have made. I'll learn to say I DON'T KNOW henceforth. @ least that stop intending arguMents |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by pesty100(m): 2:37pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
PastorAIO:so skepticism seems to be the rational choice? |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by AgentOfAllah: 2:42pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
PastorAIO: Aptly put. |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by PastorAIO: 2:43pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
Ubenedictus: Please can I refer you to this post for further clarification: https://www.nairaland.com/335826/pastor-aio-come-teach-us/4#4938603 |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by PastorAIO: 2:44pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
pesty100: so skepticism seems to be the rational choice? Not necessarily the rational choice. But the more honest choice, certainly. 1 Like |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by pesty100(m): 2:46pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
PastorAIO: Then there is the notion that God created all the possibilities and every possible universe exists in parallel to themselves. This raises ontological questions of when we can say something exists or not. Can possibilities be said to exist? In what sense? How do we compare their existence to the existence of Actualities.Actualities is subjective to possibilities, if actualities exists then possibilities exist |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by Weah96: 2:52pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
alexleo: With responsibility comes choice. No choice is being offered me to believe. This creator must have known before I was created that my brain wouldn't tolerate the fairy tales. Can a smartphone be responsible for receiving an incoming text? Would you punish a DVD player for playing a DVD? |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by Nobody: 3:30pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
sheunfemix: OooohhHh #stamping my feet# PastorAIO has made me come back to this tread again!! Pastor, u have said it all well. But one thing with is pple like the Op is dat they will still want to ask questions from the simple explanation u have made. I'll learn to say I DON'T KNOW henceforth. @ least that stop intending arguMents Goooodddd!! PastorAIO's posts are soooOO on point. C'mon sheunfemix, stopping painting like the villain naww. Who can argue against I don't know? My problem is with the ARROGANTLY CERTAIN religionists as well as the atheists. Why should anyone go about feeling like they're guardians of absolute truth with the issues that PastorAIO raised? I'm tripping for PastorAIO's posts. Seriously. He didn't claim to understand what is plainly illogical based on faith alone. He didn't slant to side with your biblical views just so you don't console yourself because you've seen his moniker reading pastor I remember one TED talk I saw by an Anglican clergy were he raised similar issues and concluded by saying that perhaps the most spiritual statement we can make is we don't know. If more religious people and so called Atheists can say that instead of feeling they are superior in a way because of their faith or false knowledge we probably wouldn't be having all this arguments. I can tell you that I don't know it all, too. How hard is it to admit that? |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by sheunfemix: 4:10pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
. Xcapist: He didn't slant to side with your biblical views just so you don't console yourself because you've seen his moniker reading pastorIf u were beside me, I wud give u a knock in d brain for that Xcapist: I remember one TED talk I saw by an Anglican clergy were he raised similar issues and concluded by saying that perhaps the most spiritual statement we can make is we don't know. If more religious people and so called Atheists can say that instead of feeling they are superior in a way because of their faith or false knowledge we probably wouldn't be having all this arguments. I can tell you that I don't know it all, too. How hard is it to admit that?In all my post here, I never claimed to know it all. And I specifically ignored the question PastorAIO addressed. Also I remember saying I do not like to question God. Like the meaning of my favourite quote 'faith questions how not why' Semper Fidelis!. Mind u, there are so many questions and arguments here that I deliberately ignore. Why? Cos I DON'T KNW |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by Nobody: 4:37pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
sheunfemix: . If u were beside me, I wud give u a knock in d brain for that Knock? Ah ah omo u harsh oo but I still like you sha. |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by Image123(m): 5:34pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
Weah96: Man believes with the heart, not the brain. A human being is not a smartphone, stop the insult. A human is responsible for what he does with what he receives, he was made in God's image. He was made with ability to overcome and dominate. There's always consequence for loss of productivity. |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by sheunfemix: 6:17pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
Xcapist:Like koor ekil nii. I'm omo Pastor oh. Abeg. #Eying u up @ down up @ down#. #Flips the hair and walk away# 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by alexleo(m): 6:50pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
PastorAIO: Beautiful submission. I agree with you to a large extent. 1 Like |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by alexleo(m): 7:00pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
hifaif: See how you mix up things. The issue i addressed was about the old and new testament(which was what this OP talked about). Thats where i said that both the old and new were part of God's plan from the beginning. Its not as if God started the new testament plan later on to correct the old. This has nothing to do with your choice. God did not plan your choice pls. Your choice remain within your powers. Kindly go back to where i wrote the thing you are misrepresenting now and read it again. |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by Nobody: 7:00pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
sheunfemix: Like koor ekil nii. I'm omo Pastor oh. Abeg. #Eying u up @ down up @ down#. #Flips the hair and walk away# Lwkmd!! Perfect! Just like Christ would have don't it |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by alexleo(m): 7:07pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
hifaif: Pls answer my question. |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by alexleo(m): 7:16pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
Weah96: All humans are created with the ability to believe or disbelieve. Its now left for you to make use of anyone(choice). Whichever one you make use of you face the consequences or gains of it. Man is much higher than smartphone so the comparison is off the track. Yet a smartphone will act the way it was made. You should act the way you are created. You are created to choose to believe or not to believe. |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by Nobody: 7:43pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
alexleo: You are very uncivilized. I asked a question. Instead of giving an answer, you asked your own question and ask that I answer yours first. If you want an answer, you answer mine first. If you have lost your manners, I have not lost mine. 1 Like |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by asalimpo(m): 7:53pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
PastorAIO:The Bible says the secret things are God's . There questions man will never know down here - if at all. But for your assertion that God's ways are a mystery-that's a lie. God is a being. Like a human, you can get into higher levels of acquiantance with a person. Until such a person begins to let you into secrets of his life. The goal of God is man to have fellowship with the GodHead-God the father,God the Son, and Gpd the Holy Spirit . In things of christianity the bible is the final arbiter. They are scriptures supporting what i said. God can b known. God has ways and methods. God has ways of thinking. He wants man to emulate him. |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by alexleo(m): 8:18pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
hifaif: Haaa bros na wa for you and your reaction. Na so you dey behave? Simple discussion we are having here is what you want to turn to war of words. When you are insinuating that Judas was acting God's script you should provide a biblical back up to it and we take it from there. We are talking bible, not what you and i think pls. |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by asalimpo(m): 8:23pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
The old testament was a place holder. It wasnt perfect, neither cud it be. It was a pointer to a new and better covenant. God's people in the old testament were servants "my servant David". In the new testament they are "children , Sons " of God. There's a difference. The child of a king can go into d presence of his father,unrestricted. Servants cant. Servants dont call their master "Daddy", but children can. Romans 8:15. The problem with man and the human race,is spiritual. A problem of sin and a depraved spirit. The old testament, addressed the sin issue by covering it with the blood of animals (bulls,ram,goat) .it could never remove it,from the human spirit. This covering enabled God's people to approach God-thru a priest- . Under the new covenant (testament) - the blood of no less than God (Jesus Christ) , solved the sin problem. Also in the new covenant, God gives man a new spirit , when he accepts Jesus christ. With these two actions,the sin and depravity problem is solved. (Hebrews 10 ) the new testament came into effect after the testator (Jesus Christ) died. Like all wills the will is effective after the death of the testator. But jesus rose,went to heaven, presented his blood on the mercy seat (as a priest for man) without blood sin cannot be removed. (Hebrews 9:22) . In essence ,if Jesus didnt die (principally to shed his blood for man) dont ask me how it was gathered - i dont know. And ascend into heaven, there would b no forgiveness opf sin for man. All would go to hell,and justly so,at death. |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by Nobody: 8:42pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
asalimpo: The old testament was a place holder. It wasnt perfect, neither cud it be. Great! Now we're finally getting somewhere. Here's someone that actually understand the op. |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by sheunfemix: 8:48pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
Xcapist please can u explain what post shearing is all about on NL? Cos I see people sharing my post and I dnt understand it 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by Nobody: 9:02pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
alexleo:. You haven't still answered my question. Whose script was Judas following when he betrayed Jesus. God's or his own? I have not insinuated anything. I only asked a question which you were only able to answer with a question. 1 Like |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by sheunfemix: 9:08pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
Xcapist: I always believed that God is perfect - almighty and all knowing, and He neither lies nor errs. He is perfect and his word is true and final.That's ur real question. Not whether the OT is really perfect and u put a condition of 'IF GOD IS PERFECT....' |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by Nobody: 9:20pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
sheunfemix: Xcapist please can u explain what post shearing is all about on NL? Cos I see people sharing my post and I dnt understand itI think it's a means of shearing sic what you find interesting with people that follow you...they can see it from their "Shared with me". But S.eun will be in a better position to answer sha. |
Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by Nobody: 9:42pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
sheunfemix: That's ur real question. Not whether the OT is really perfect and u put a condition of 'IF GOD IS PERFECT....' Hehehe, I believe we're getting somewhere at least since your still here on the thread and you don't feel the need to knock my brain Exactly. If he's perfect then you should expect nothing less than that as his "Word", right? If the word is imperfect and deformed then it says the same about the author too. And if Yahweh, the author is imperfect then he's no god because God is suppose to be perfect...am I making sense to you? |
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