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Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by shadeyinka(m): 9:00pm On Sep 22, 2016 |
donnffd: I think that the placement of the earth in its orbit is special. If the error in placement is up to 10% there would exist no living thing even if we take the path of evolution. It would have been extreme heat and extreme cold. The presence of the moon of the right size is also special. Most likely life wouldn't have existed without the moon. Without the moon, ocean movements would be adversely affected hence there may be no life in the ocean. The size of our sun and its energy density is just right for life on earth. If you ask me, the earth is a privileged planet. It is however not a conclusive proof of creation. But you will agree with me that many things about our planet is just perfect for life. Right amount of Water, Oxygen, Pressure, Radiation etc. We may ague about adaptation but if life managed to exist with absence of one of these factors, life would be totally different from what we have now. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by otemanuduno: 9:12pm On Sep 22, 2016 |
Jacksonville: Lol... Since when has the followers of yahweh start speaking nice words? Guy if you are looking for a follower for Yahweh, you have to find someone else, because Otem is destined to tell the truth and not to worship lies like you. The Light of the Almighty God, the Father of all gods will help you out of your delusions in Otem's name I pray, AMEN. |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by urahara(m): 9:26pm On Sep 22, 2016 |
DoctorAlien: The onus of proof is on you |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by donnffd(m): 9:33pm On Sep 22, 2016 |
shadeyinka: You are right, the earth is perfect for life as we know, the only misconception here is overturned cause and effect. You are assuming that the earth was created because of life, when it should be the other way around, Life evolved to fit the earth. We both agree the earth is beautiful and its our home. |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by DoctorAlien(m): 9:33pm On Sep 22, 2016 |
urahara: If I prove it my way, they start to talk again. GOD is the Creator of and not a part of the universe, and so you cannot prove He exists by employing skeptical empiricism. Just like no amount of study you conduct on a building will prove that it's architect exists (assuming the identity of said architect is in question). Look all around you, you will see proof of GOD's existence. 1 Like 2 Shares |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by urahara(m): 9:36pm On Sep 22, 2016 |
DoctorAlien: All i see all around me is ....... A universe and a world which looks exactly the way you would expect it to be if there is no god |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by Nobody: 9:38pm On Sep 22, 2016 |
otemanuduno: You mean the father of demons? Fallen angels that defied God's command, including ''domino''[satan] and atom those crazy demons that think they can plagiarize the bible. Get away you! |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by DoctorAlien(m): 9:40pm On Sep 22, 2016 |
urahara: Are you sincere? The very complex nature of life and the rigid orderliness that exists in the universe would have been created by random chance? |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by Nobody: 9:41pm On Sep 22, 2016 |
raphieMontella: God gave an instruction they failed to adhere to. Their eyes were opened and they knew they had sinned. Period! 1 Like |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by urahara(m): 9:53pm On Sep 22, 2016 |
DoctorAlien: The very complex nature of thsi supposed god also demands a creator |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by shadeyinka(m): 10:03pm On Sep 22, 2016 |
donnffd: Actually, my point is what happens if you take away just one of these variables can evolution of life take place? If the earth did not have the right amount of gases eg Ozone the earth would be barren. The statistical odds of having all the necessary ingredient for evolution in a planet is outstanding. Do you know that it is possible to also have every physical attribute of the earth and life still would not be formed (evolution)? |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by DoctorAlien(m): 10:06pm On Sep 22, 2016 |
urahara: Yes. GOD is very complex. Too complex for our finite brains to comprehend. However, this logic of yours will lead one into assuming there is an infinite number of Creators. If GOD is so complex that somebody must be His Creator, then that Creator is far more complex and so demands a Creator, and so on... Where does that lead us? We also know that order cannot come out of chaos/disorder. Therefore there is a Creator. |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by otemanuduno: 10:13pm On Sep 22, 2016 |
Jacksonville: Plagia what? So you think I can take the Bible in my hands and plagiarise it without getting punished immediately, like thunder striking me down? That's so funny. This your god who sank a ship(TITANIC) and killed John Lennon for saying just a statement against him is so lame that he couldn't TOUCH OTEM who calls him a devil? Anyway, ur god has no power over the truth. He is Satan and I will always call him his name, any day, anytime. Receive liberation in your brain in Atum's name. Amen |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by donnffd(m): 10:27pm On Sep 22, 2016 |
shadeyinka: When the earth was young, about 500 million years, it had an atmosphere mainly composed of hydrogen, the earths surface was bathed with ultraviolet rays from the sun. This environment would have been extremely hostile to life as we know it but what we found out, these ingredients were what was needed to spark the first living things. Life stated in the ocean and grew rapidly, microbes were the only inhabiitants at the time. They were bottom of the ocean getting their energy from hydrothermal vents, and they flourished until some moved upward closer to the surface and evolved photosynthesis, they were able to use sunlight to create their own food and give oxygen as their waste product. These organisms thrived for billions of years slowly pumping oxygen into the atmosphere, we owe how atmosphere to these amazing creatures. The fact that animals evolved to depend on oxygen wasnt a surprise because if you didnt, you would not survive, thus we are here. Many of the factors you mentioned can be explained naturally and doesnt need an extraordinary cause for it to happen. |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by shadeyinka(m): 3:46am On Sep 23, 2016 |
donnffd: I quite agree with you that the factors raised about the earth and the origin of life may be explained naturally and of course that is not my aim. I am just focusing on the statistical odds of having ALL these factors in a single planet. As close as the moon is, it is barren. Why? So many things missen in the equation especially the size which is not sufficient to trap an atmosphere through gravitation. Without the Orbital inclination of the earth, we would not have our climatic seasons. The earths magnetic field is a saviour against the dangerous cosmic radiations that would have destroyed all probability of life's existence. The size of the earth is just the right size...imagine if humans live on Jupiter! The presence of enough quantity of water in the sea, the water cycle supplying fresh water on land, Nitrogen cycle, Carbon cycle and Energy cycle all on just one planet? How come everything necessary for life on one planet? Of course we can argue that we have billions of planets and so statistically it is possible. I agree, but there exist no guarantee that life will exist in a similar planet to ours in any other galaxy. Because, apart from the physical elements, we also have time as a variable. This make the odds almost impossible! The earth has a molten inner core and it is in orbit of a stable star able to survive billions of years. To me, its about ALL the factors that simultaneously create an almost impossible statistical odds. Usually for me, I dont attempt to prove the divine origin of life on earth by recent events. I go to the origin, just before the B bang when the laws of physics break down. |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by donnffd(m): 5:59am On Sep 23, 2016 |
shadeyinka: You know i agree but let me throw in a thought experiment, please indulge me: Imagine microbes never evolved photosynthesis and never pumped oxygen, imagine we had just Nitrogen and hydrogen in our atmosphere, imagine the earth wasnt bombarded with asteroids carrying water but Ammonia, imagine the earth didnt have an ozone layer to protect it from UV rays from the sun and imagine Life started on the earth(given the age of the earth and how life was discovered, scientists suggest that life must have started quickly on earth). Now what do we have, No ozone, ultraviolet rays everywhere, a sea of ammonia and no oxygen, Life would remain in the sea, and evolve, they would use Ammonia has their solvent and probably hydrothermal vents as their source of energy, some might evolve to use the UV light but lets be generous and say no animals crawled to land, they all evolved in their sea of ammonia. Now imagine one species that evolved intelligence now claiming the earth was just right for their existence and the odds of it happening was astronomical. Of course we can argue that we have billions of planets and so statistically it is possible. I agree, but there exist no guarantee that life will exist in a similar planet to ours in any other galaxy. Because, apart from the physical elements, we also have time as a variable. This make the odds almost impossible! The galaxy is about 10billion years old, so there has been plenty of time for planets to flourish life across it The earth has a molten inner core and it is in orbit of a stable star able to survive billions of years. To me, its about ALL the factors that simultaneously create an almost impossible statistical odds. If the features where different, like my thought experiment above, then we would not be here rather a different set of organisms adapted to those conditions Usually for me, I dont attempt to prove the divine origin of life on earth by recent events. I go to the origin, just before the B bang when the laws of physics break down. Yea, i agree alot of premise that comes from before the big bang is promising and captivating, and can be a real contender for an explanation for a divine creator but not the origin of the earth, it is well understood and no divine work seems to be at play. |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by Nobody: 6:03am On Sep 23, 2016 |
otemanuduno: I've never seen any man foolish as you are seriously.. You make me laugh just because you're a clown. I can't take you serious, and so many people too seeing this can't take you for a sober person. It seems you stopped taking your medications boy. |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by hahn(m): 8:33am On Sep 23, 2016 |
Jacksonville: Lol. You are filled with disbelief for 4,199 other religions. I have disbelief in ALL You better keep to your lane if you lack belief in my GOD. Let others who are willing to embrace the gospel come forth, so he can reveal himself to them. The spread of delusion and blind faith is coming to an end. Unfortunately, Jesus and Jehovah will not make good characters in a movie like Loki and Thor I know who i am and that gives me great JOY because the LORD GOD almighty has made it so before he formed me in my mother's womb. |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by otemanuduno: 8:38am On Sep 23, 2016 |
Jacksonville: Before I was a demon, according to you. Now it's about medication. Lol. U're just confusing yourself, just like yahweh your god, the author of confusion. With all these, many people will start having a rethink about GOD ALMIGHTY whom they thought was yahweh. NIGERIANS WILL USE THEIR BRAINS AND DEVELOP UPSTAIRS. anyway, I saw the hosts of yahweh in my dream today. I chased them away in the name of Otem, but I don't know yet if it is a mere dream or a SPIRITUAL DREAM. but all the same, THEY FLED |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by Nobody: 8:54am On Sep 23, 2016 |
hahn: K |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by Nobody: 8:55am On Sep 23, 2016 |
otemanuduno: K |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by shadeyinka(m): 10:40pm On Sep 23, 2016 |
donnffd: But with such changes, life may not even have started in the first place. You also need to factor in time and phases of the reactions if evolution was true anyway. Its not just aboutbthe constituent's but the right sequence of changes in atmospheric parameters. donnffd: It is actually futile discussing creationism from Biological point of view since biology can only take reference from several billion years after the big bang |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by blueAgent(m): 4:09am On Sep 24, 2016 |
Cowards the worst ,they could do was to ban me. |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by blueAgent(m): 4:13am On Sep 24, 2016 |
lordnicklaus: Our arguement is not about Hurricane and Jupiter stop deviating. our argument is if their is proof of the World originating by chance or design. the same Scientist you hold in high esteem ,that told you about bigbang and evolution. have decleared that the probability of the earth originating by chance is mathematically impossible. so how do you explain your Earth origin, since Science is not supporting your cliam.j |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by blueAgent(m): 4:18am On Sep 24, 2016 |
otemanuduno: Another confused bubba. |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by blueAgent(m): 4:20am On Sep 24, 2016 |
donnffd: Which bigbang? you are too Naive to comprehend REALITY. |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by blueAgent(m): 4:25am On Sep 24, 2016 |
shadeyinka: The Anthropic Principle admit to the "fine- tuning" and conclude that the universe is "too contrived" to be a chance event. In a BBC science documentary, "The Anthropic Principle," some of the greatest scientific minds of our day describe the recent findings which compel this conclusion. Dr. Dennis Scania, the distinguished head of Cambridge University Observatories: If you change a little bit the laws of nature, or you change a little bit the constants of nature -- like the charge on the electron -- then the way the universe develops is so changed, it is very likely that intelligent life would not have been able to develop. Dr. David D. Deutsch, Institute of Mathematics, Oxford University: If we nudge one of these constants just a few percent in one direction, stars burn out within a million years of their formation, and there is no time for evolution. If we nudge it a few percent in the other direction, then no elements heavier than helium form. No carbon, no life. Not even any chemistry. No complexity at all. Dr. Paul Davies, noted author and professor of theoretical physics at Adelaide University: "The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a knife- edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge, and would be total chaos if any of the natural 'constants' were off even slightly. You see," Davies adds, "even if you dismiss man as a chance happening, the fact remains that the universe seems unreasonably suited to the existence of life . |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by blueAgent(m): 4:28am On Sep 24, 2016 |
donnffd: Too Naive to understand reality. The Big Bang." At first, the universe was only hydrogen and helium, which congealed into stars. Subsequently, all the other elements were manufactured inside the stars. The four most abundant elements in the universe are: hydrogen, helium, oxygen and carbon. When Sir Fred Hoyle was researching how carbon came to be, in the "blast-furnaces" of the stars, his calculations indicated that it is very difficult to explain how the stars generated the necessary quantity of carbon upon which life on earth depends. Hoyle found that there were numerous "fortunate" one- time occurrences which seemed to indicate that purposeful "adjustments" had been made in the laws of physics and chemistry in order to produce the necessary carbon. Hoyle sums up his findings as follows: A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintendent has monkeyed with the physics, as well as chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. I do not believe that any physicist who examined the evidence could fail to draw the inference that the laws of nuclear physics have been deliberately designed with regard to the consequences they produce within stars. Adds Dr. David D. Deutch: If anyone claims not to be surprised by the special features that the universe has, he is hiding his head in the sand. These special features ARE surprising and unlikely. Universal Acceptance Of Fine Tuning Besides the BBC video, the scientific establishment's most prestigious journals |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by blueAgent(m): 4:33am On Sep 24, 2016 |
donnffd: Your Science SUCKS. recognizing the objective truth of the fine-tuning. The August '97 issue of "Science" (the most prestigious peer- reviewed scientific journal in the United States) featured an article entitled "Science and God: A Warming Trend?" Here is an excerpt: The fact that the universe exhibits many features that foster organic life -- such as precisely those physical constants that result in planets and long-lived stars -- also has led some scientists to speculate that some divine influence may be present. In his best-selling book, "A Brief History of Time", Stephen Hawking (perhaps the world's most famous cosmologist) refers to the phenomenon as "remarkable." The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers (i.e. the constants of physics) seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life". "For example," Hawking writes, "if the electric charge of the electron had been only slightly different, stars would have been unable to burn hydrogen and helium, or else they would not have exploded. It seems clear that there are relatively few ranges of values for the numbers (for the constants) that would allow for development of any form of intelligent life. Most sets of values would give rise to universes that, although they might be very beautiful, would contain no one able to wonder at that beauty. Hawking then goes on to say that he can appreciate taking this as possible evidence of "a divine purpose in Creation and the choice of the laws of science (by God)" (ibid. p. 125). Dr. Gerald Schroeder, author of "Genesis and the Big Bang" and "The Science of Life" was formerly with the M.I.T. physics department. He adds the following examples: Professor Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in high energy physics (a field of science that deals with the very early universe), writing in the journal "Scientific American", reflects on: how surprising it is that the laws of nature and the initial conditions of the universe should allow for the existence of beings who could observe it. Life as we know it would be impossible if any one of several physical quantities had slightly different values. Although Weinberg is a self-described agnostic, he cannot but be astounded by the extent of the fine-tuning. He goes on to describe how a beryllium isotope having the minuscule half life of 0.0000000000000001 seconds must find and absorb a helium nucleus in that split of time before decaying. This occurs only because of a totally unexpected, exquisitely precise, energy match between the two nuclei. If this did not occur there would be none of the heavier elements. No carbon, no nitrogen, no life. Our universe would be composed of hydrogen and helium. But this is not the end of Professor Weinberg's wonder at our well-tuned universe. He continues: One constant does seem to require an incredible fine-tuning -- The existence of life of any kind seems to require a cancellation between different contributions to the vacuum energy, accurate to about 120 decimal places. This means that if the energies of the Big Bang were,in arbitrary units, not: 100000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000 000000000000000000, but instead: 100000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000 000000000000000001, there would be no life of any sort in the entire universe because as Weinberg states: the universe either would go through a complete cycle of expansion and contraction before life could arise, or would expand so rapidly that no galaxies or stars could form. Michael Turner, the widely quoted astrophysicist at the University of Chicago and Fermilab, describes the fine-tuning of the universe with a simile: The precision is as if one could throw a dart across the entire universe and hit a bulls eye one millimeter in diameter on the other side. Roger Penrose, the Rouse Ball Professor of Mathematics at the University of Oxford, discovers that the likelihood of the universe having usable energy (low entropy) at the creation is even more astounding, namely, an accuracy of one part out of ten to the power of ten to the power of 123. |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by blueAgent(m): 4:36am On Sep 24, 2016 |
ValentineMary: As usual you Atheists keep re-phraseing same statement to decieve people. Our main argument is how can we prove that the Earth originated by Chance.since Scientists express so much doubt about it. simple Michael Turner, the widely quoted astrophysicist at the University of Chicago and Fermilab, describes the fine-tuning of the universe with a simile: The precision is as if one could throw a dart across the entire universe and hit a bulls eye one millimeter in diameter on the other side. Roger Penrose, the Rouse Ball Professor of Mathematics at the University of Oxford, discovers that the likelihood of the universe having usable energy (low entropy) at the creation is even more astounding, namely, an accuracy of one part out of ten to the power of ten to the power of 123. This is an extraordinary figure. One could not possibly even write the number down in full, in our ordinary denary (power of ten) notation: it would be one followed by ten to the power of 123 successive zeros! (That is a million billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion zeros.) Penrose continues, Even if we were to write a zero on each separate proton and on each separate neutron in the entire universe -- and we could throw in all the other particles as well for good measure -- we should fall far short of writing down the figure needed. The precision needed to set the universe on its course is to be in no way inferior to all that extraordinary precision that we have already become accustomed to in the superb dynamical equations (Newton's, Maxwell's, Einstein's) which govern the behavior of things from moment to moment. Cosmologists debate whether the space- |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by blueAgent(m): 4:45am On Sep 24, 2016 |
ValentineMary: You are Naive to understand and Discern God's plan and purpose. |
Re: A Divine Force Or Creator - Mere Thinking Or Emblem Of Evidence by blueAgent(m): 4:45am On Sep 24, 2016 |
otemanuduno: Another confused Bubba. get well soon. |
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