₦airaland Forum

Tornadoz:
"There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies ­not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy." Israeli president Moshe Katsav. The Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001
Peaceful Jews indeed.

Another one of the oft deliberately twisted quotes used to demonise the jewish people.

Please read the REAL quote as carefully explained by CAMERA:

TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT

President Moshe Katsav

There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies – not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy.

Source given: Israeli president Moshe Katsav, Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001

Investigation: While nothing was found in the source given, there was an account in the following day’s edition of the Jerusalem Post. This remark is completely removed from its context to make it sound racist. In fact, Katsav was specifically talking about the brutal murders by Palestinian terrorists of two young schoolboys. The remains of Kobi Mandel and Yossi Ish-Ran, who had played hooky from school to explore a cave, were found on May 9, 2001. The Jerusalem Post clearly placed Katsav’s words in that context:

President Moshe Katsav said yesterday that Israel would never stoop to the brutality the Palestinians displayed in the stoning to death of two Tekoa teenagers this week.

"There is a huge gap between us and our enemies - not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience," Katsav told reporters at Beit Hanassi.

"We would never stoop to the kind of brutality inflicted on the victims in Tekoa and Ofra," he added. "They're our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who don't belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy."

Katsav said Israel must change its approach to the Palestinians, but stopped short of voicing exactly what that new approach should be -- although he appeared to imply that retaliation is at times necessary.

"Force is no solution to anything," he said, "but sometimes it's essential."

Referring to the brutal murders of two young boys from Tekoa, Katsav said he is sure there are Palestinians and other Moslems who oppose terrorism, but it was terrifying to realize how much cruelty and hatred the Palestinians harbor against Israelis. (Jerusalem Post, May 11, 2001)

[size=15pt]Summary: Misrepresentation of comments by removal of context.[/size]

Please note the DELIBERATE omission of critical portions of Khatsav's comments to read a completely different meaning.

use a p enis squeezer then.

RichyBlacK:
Yes, they've fought to defend themselves but that is old news. They need to start thinking about their future.

Newsweek Magazine listed Tel Aviv as one of the ten most technologically influential cities in the world in 1998. The Jews already have their future mapped out.
I think you shld be more worried about the futures of those professional refugees across their borders.

RichyBlacK:
The last intifada was started because Ariel Sharon was a visionless leader who was trapped in the battles of the past. His visit of the Temple Mount was poorly orchestrated and triggered that intifada.

Even the arabs don't believe this.

RichyBlacK:
The question is how does Israel get out of this 60-year siege?

You're asking the wrong question for obviously dishonest reasons. Israel is an established nation, those who have the problem are those who have just set the world record as the world's longest serving refugees. 60yrs!

RichyBlacK:
Do you have any ideas on this? Are you aware that the this problem has stunted the growth of Israel? Can you imagine what Israel would have been without this tench-mentality that its leaders have relied upon for too long?

richyBlack did you drink beer this night?   The Israeli economy had an 8% growth rate in 2006, higher than that of any western nation. It had a GDP percapita of $31,767  in 2007 and has an inflation rate of -0.1%

the INTEL chip was invented by the Israelis and they have their own silicon valley . . .

and u consider their growth stumped?   Now care to tell us how the economy of Gaza has fared in the hands of Hamas?

RichyBlacK:
Without good answers to these questions, I don't see things getting better even after the state of Palestine is created. Israel needs to change its policies from that of "we are the Jews, the chosen ones and the Gentiles are barbaric" to that of "we are all Semitic people and monotheists, we can all work together".

To start with, Israel has no such policy. Perhaps you want to direct your hypocritical policy change call to the right party . . . the arabs.

RichyBlacK:
What I'm saying is that Israel needs to shift policies. This siege mentality is hurting Israel very badly and it has to stop.

Read 4 Play's last post . . . it would be good if u people begin to see issues with your thinking caps on. Israel has had to fight for her very existence since 1948 . . . and you accuse them of having a siege  mentality?
They have to endure rockets fired into schools, hospitals and day care centers everyday, they have to endure the constant sniper fire and the very real threat of suicide bombers everyday . . . and u accuse them of having a siege mentality?

RichyBlacK:
The real problem in Israel is leadership. Most of the leaders have had no vision for seeing Israel out of the trench it's been fighting from for decades. A leader with a vision is what is needed. Unfortunately, the last visionary leader we saw from Israel was assassinated by a fellow Israeli. Too bad!

looks like what is really needed is that you people get some eyeglasses so you can see the truth sitting right under your noses.
Israel was attacked in 1967, was it for lack of leadership vision?
Was the intifada as a result of an Israeli lack of leadership?

Na wa o.

RichyBlack . .  i notice you have been DELIBERATELY avoiding the real issues, prefering to respond to irrelevant points. Care to answer the very real questions staring u in the face?

Perhaps the boy was selling recharge cards.

RichyBlacK:
Many people have made that comparison (Hitler-Bush) and I won't claim to the first.

That others have made this misguided assertion is not proof that it is right.

RichyBlacK:
Why is what is written in their charter more important than what they can potentially do if Israel is willing to extend a hand of friendship to a legitimately elected party? We've been on this path before and we agreed that the possibility of human actions is far greater than what is written in a book. You recall? Don't go down this path of "what is written", you'll just be entering a cul de sac.

Bros, be honest . . . we can't just wish away a declaration of intent in favour of "what they can potentially do". These people show us what they can potentially do anytime they send suicide bombers into cafes and let loose gunmen in libraries of seminaries.
I ask again . . .  how do u want Israel to extend a hand of fellowship to thsoe who are more preoccupied with sending 50 rockets a day into Sderot and Ashkelon?

You ask us to ignore "what is written" and then turn around to use deliberately twisted quotes made in 1938 by dead men as proof that the Israel of today simply wants to blow the citizens of Gaza to smitherens . . . care to also ignore what is "quoted"?

RichyBlacK:
Israel has to shift its policy from that of a country under siege to one willing to make friends in the region. Without a honest attempt to make friends in the region, real friends, the siege mentality will persist in Israel and that will surely and always hamper its growth.

look Richie . . . lets be honest, there was no Israel in 1948 when the Arabs refused to accept the 2-state solution in favour of destroying the budding Jewish state. How else do you want them to make friends with those who went to Khartoum and returned with the 3 No's?

RichyBlacK:
also, listening to hard-line neocons, Republicans and fundamental Christians in the US will not help Israel in the long run. Israel has to learn to become more friendly and shun its racist, bigoted and Apartheid policies. This is the sure way of winning true friends, one Arab at a time. America on its part has to push for true democracy in Saudi Arabia and Egypt and stop hugging dictators and oppressors.

Pls mention these racist, bigoted and apartheid policies?
Have you read Hamas constitution? Ever read the PLO's charter?
Arabs have more rights in Israel than in Gaza and the WestBank . . . how is Israel that has a 20% Arab population who have equal rights under the law as any Jewish citizen racist?
The same Israel gave outright citizenship to about 300 refugees from Darfur without conditions . . . even Sudan cannot guarantee the safety of its own citizens while Egypt turns away these same refugees . . .
On what grounds do you accuse Israel of being partisan?

RichyBlacK:
Furthermore, the age of using nuclear bombs to settle scores was brief and it's already over - Israel was late . Those 200 or so nuclear war heads Israel possess will become useless and rust to nothingness in a decade.

What is the significance of this? Without those nuclear weapons as detterent Iran and Iraq would have bombed Israel out of existence. I dont hear u crying about the nuclear weapons in the possession of Pakistan and India . . . infact i remember you claiming that the Iranians had a right to develop nuclear weapons.

Why are those possessed by Israel a problem to you?

damola1:
Nigeria is on fire!!!

yeah, the fire of poverty.

RichyBlacK:
You should first compare George W. Bush to Hitler before comparing Hamas. Why should Hamas recognize the state of Israel when Israel does not recognize it?

1. Comparing Bush to Hitler? Are you well?

2. Ah now we start to play musical chairs with facts eh? Why and on what grounds do you expect Israel to recognize an organization whose very charter calls for their destruction?
Would you advocate that Nigeria recognize MEND as a legitimate political party?

RichyBlacK:
That's what I'm trying to tell you. There is no way that the population of the entire region of Palestine in 1854 was a mere "15,500 souls". That figure and the accompanying demographics outlined by Karl Marx was most likely for the city of Jerusalem and not the entire region. But JayFK (and now you) were discussing the region and not the city.

I clearly outlined the fact that i was refering specifically to Jerusalem in that piece. See my first response to you above.
We dont have reliable census figures for the entire region but at least we have that for Jerusalem.

The Ottoman census figures say there were no more than 141,000 mus'lims (including Turks and Arabs) as at 1882 in the entire mandate of Palestine.

RichyBlacK:
@topic,

I sympathize with the people of Israel who have to suffer the consequences of the actions of its government.

Is it an offence for a government to militarily protect the very people who voted them into power?

RichyBlacK:
I sympathize with the legitimate, democratically elected government of the people of Palestine - Hamas. The West in their infinity hypocrisy refused to recognize Hamas even though Hamas came into power by a democratic process - the people of Palestine voted in Hamas.

hahahaha what a ridiculous man this RichyBlack is turning out to be. Are you a joke?
Hitler was a "legitimate, democratically elected" president of the people of Germany in 1938-1945 . . . cared to sympathise with him and the German people during WWII?

A "democratically elected government" whose sole purpose is the anihilation of an entire race has no basis crying for recognition from the very people they have sworn NEVER to sit at a table with.

RichyBlacK:
@4Him,
Karl Marx's quote was restricted to Jerusalem and not the entire region of Palestine in 1854! Or are you trying to assert that the population distribution of Jerusalem mirrored that of the entire region of Palestine in 1854? Using city statistics as an indication of regional statistics doesn't make much sense.

Mr do you need glasses? I will reproduce the very statement that you quoted, note the words in highlights:

Here is an excerpt from Karl Marx's article that appeared in the New York Tribune in 1854 - the sedentary population of Jerusalem numbers about 15,500 souls, of whom 4,000 are Mussulmans and 8,000 Jews. The Mussulmans, forming about a fourth part of the whole, and consisting of Turks, Arabs and Moors, are, of course . . .

- Note here that the 4000 mus'lims here does not equte to 4000 arabs which means as at 1854 there were less than 4000 arabs in the entire city of Jerusalem.

Now mr . . . where did you see me use the city statistics to refer to the entire region?

RichyBlacK:
@JayFK, was right when he pointed out that the Jews were a minority in Palestine. As a matter of fact, the Jews were a minority in every region/nation/country they resided in before the 1948 creation of the state of Israel.

You seem to have a problem with rational reasoning . . . Jordan comprises 85% of the original British Palestinian Mandate and has a population that is 95% Arab.
You may have a point when you say that Arabs were probably in the majority (there were only about 141,000 muslims - arabs and turks in the entire Palestine as at 1882) . . . prior to 1922 when Jordan was finally carved out.
To claim that Arabs WERE STILL in the majority in what finally became Israel is to be CRIMINALLY DECEPTIVE.

4 Play:
Na drive-by toasting or ride-by toasting.

half bread is better than none o.

stillwater:
There are some guys that you know you would never go out with, said No a thousand times to, but they would still be disgracing you in the name of "toasting".

Madame, you shld be pleased that men find you attractive enough to "toast" you. Some women would give an arm and a leg just to get a guy to say hello to them once a month. 
Look, women have this air about them that makes you wonder at times.

Even when a guy you dig comes around you'd still say a big NO and then go home praying he comes back again haba.

No wonder guys lose interest after the chase . . . you get there after enduring so much humiliation only to find out the girl wasnt even worth 5 minutes of your time.

nwando:
ROFL
I didn't read you before posting mine.
looks like you sabi women well well.
david!!!
Hmm!!

How innocent boy like you come get am for plenty experience?
_{I know it's that morenike girl corrupting your innocent mind}
where is she?

lol Morenike needs experience herself.  
Life is a game, you learn how to deal your cards as you mature.

I once had a girl say flat out NO once; it was like a blow. I'd never had a girl say no before and i had woken up that day supremely confident she would say yes in a heartbeat.
After an hr of "trying harder" she eventually gave in. Turns out she said no because she was afraid i'd leave for someone else since i was in my finals and she didnt want to lose out.
She was right!  

Lesson of the story - unless you're absolutely sure the girl is not worth the chase then No should not be a barrier to you. Like a friend would say, the only reason you give up on a woman is if she's got a ring on her finger.

nwando:
Please No is No is NO
are you people now mind readers?

Sometimes No means try harder or "you're on standby till the present jerk leaves" or "i'm not sure". It makes no sense to leave at the first sign of No.

stillwater:
Never plain? When did No become "never plain"?

How many women really say No and mean it?

It is a mark of the endtime. The LovePeddler of revelation 17, drunk with the blood of the saints, has begun her whoredoms.

Depends, you just never know.

- Sometimes you see a woman and you want her as a companion . . . _{of course with sex as a side menu}
- There are some that right from day 1 you just label "for sex only".
- and there are some that you just grow to like and get attached to even though it was only meant to be a fling initially.

As a woman you just hope you fall into either category 1 or 3.

JayFK:
I agree with you there though, this isn't about Land at all it is solely religious, it is basically about who lays claim to Jerusalem. Great One's don't care at all about the Palestinians they just see Palestinians as their proxy to Jerusalem because of their faith.

At least your eyes are begining to open to the REAL truth.

JayFK:
You have to understand that this Israel situation is a very unique situation
No piece of Land has been fought over that much. The British, French(Christians), Jews and of course M'uslims have all fought over it.

The question we should be trying to understand is what is it about a tiny patch of desert that some would sacrifice their own children for? Is there oil there? No.
Is there water? No.

What really is there? Why would mus'lims in Nigeria, Iran, Egypt, Somalia be so virulent about destroying the Jews? Do you still think  its all about land?

JayFK:
so I'm trying to establish a line of reasoning here.
Jews were a minority in the British Mandate of Palestine about 1/3 of the population.

This is an oft quoted lie.
When you talk about the British Mandate of Palestine you erroneously also include Jordan. Now when you take jordan (which makes up 85% of the original mandate and is 95% arab) out of the equation then Jews were by far the majority population in what is now Israel.

JayFK:
Only thing here is, a lot of Jews do not call the Land of Israel home, since their great grandparents have since been living on European lands.

that is again not true. Ever heard the phrase . . . "this time next yr in Jerusalem"?

JayFK:
Now historically thats maybe 2 or 3 Millennia ago and according to the bible, the Jews conquered the Lands and settled there. Now more recently, more than half a millennium ago, Arabs conquered the Lands and have settled there. So who really lays claim to the Land? The conquered or the conqueror?

That again is NOT TRUE. Arabs conquered Jerusalem in 638 AD but were kicked out in 1099 AD by the crusaders.
Dont confuse issues . . . the Turks are mus'lim but NOT arabs.

Here is an excerpt from Karl Marx's article that appeared in the New York Tribune in 1854 - the sedentary population of Jerusalem numbers about 15,500 souls, of whom 4,000 are Mussulmans and 8,000 Jews. The Mussulmans, forming about a fourth part of the whole, and consisting of Turks, Arabs and Moors, are, of course . . .

- Note here that the 4000 mus'lims here does not equte to 4000 arabs which means as at 1854 there were less than 4000 arabs in the entire city of Jerusalem.

JayFK:
I think a similar situation would be South Africa where Europeans have made their home for maybe the last 4/5 generations? Can Africans just all of sudden establish an all black country, relocate them to another part of the country and become Independent from them? Do they really have that right?

See above, no one relocated the arabs . . . they were never there in the first place.

tpaine:
My experience of the critics of evolution on this forum is that they are seldom prepared to review or study the material they are referred to. This is a disgrace. It is incalculable how religious dogma addles the mind.

My experience of the critics of christianity on this forum is that they are NEVER prepared to review or study the bible verses they are referred to. This is a disgrace. It is incalculable how atheistic dogma beclouds the mind.

babs787:
@David


You are still here crying over surah 19 v 71 when Olabowale has dealt extensively on it. Does that shows that you have nothing new to serve us?

indeed. Is that why the rest of u are so afraid of it?

Ahmadtjk:
ISREAL, Those flith are going to wiped off the surface of this earth, pigs!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is the reason why there will never be peace in the middle east. Its not about land at all . . . but about one man's religious quest to destroy the jews.

Is Ahmadtjk a palestinian refugee? Why does he call the Jews filth that must be wiped off the face of the earth?
As for calling them pigs, its not surprising that this exact same is used to describe the jews in his k'oran.
Their offence? For disobeying the sabath that is not even an i'slamic principle.

stillwater:
And you guys will listen?

We always listen. If you think we dont its because you people are never plain.

JayFK:
It was known as the British Mandate of Palestine. It was supposed to be a joint Jewish/Palestinian state. The Arab league rejected the deal but Israel declared Her independence anyway.

80-85% of the British Mandate of Palestine is now Jordan. Why are we not fighting over that land too since Jordan never even existed as a nation under any map?
Wait a minute . . . you forgot to tell us that not only did the Arab league reject the deal but that Israel actually accepted it.

JayFK:
There's indigenous Gypsies in more than 5 Eastern European Countries, What's your point, that the UN can just carve out a state for them without approval from the neighboring Nations and They can just declare independence without their approval and the west would accept it? C'mon dude. Listen I'm not against Israel's right to exist, but a deal should have been reached with the Palestinian Arabs/Palestinians who were the majority ethnic group living there before Independence was declared.

Syria, Jordan, Lebanon were all born about the same time, whose approval did they need?
Did Nigeria require approval from Benin and Togo before they could declare independence?
Jordan was formed in 1922 on the same piece of land the arabs claim to be agitating for . . . whose approval did they get?

And again i reiterate . . . we need to stop perpetuatiing the falsehood that arabs were the majority ethnic group living in Israel. 95% of the arabs in palestine formed what is now known as Jordan.

Rlst84sale:
Romeo

Go and get you a bible and read from Genesis 12 to the last chapter of Joshua. You will find your answer there.

If the canaanites, amorites, hittites and jebusites were asking for their land back you'd have a point.

MC Usman . . . go and read Sura 19:71 then come back here to talk about hell.

Nwando i dont think so. Chasing a girl sometimes is not just because of sex.