₦airaland Forum

temizeee:
chaiiii battery bank calculator guys dey here ooooo...oga pass oga 4 nairaland.....everyone always proof they know something,some claim they know everything.God go help us

Even if those some people claim they know everything, i know that they dont.

chris81964:
I was being polite. You are obviously challenged. Use Google or go to school to learn it like others before you.

Unless the word polite has a new meaning in English. I just wonder why a polite person instead of either contributing to a solution or keeping quiet would choose to send someone on a wild goose chase. At the end someone who wants to know is told by you to go back to school. Even if i will go back to school, i wont study electrical engineering. Infact, when i was about to go to the university, i had 2 admission offers and one was electrical engineering but i turned it down for my current profession. It doesnt stop me from desiring to know some certain aspects of it especially for my personal use.

Next time, when a general question is thrown, you dont have to answer or take it personal. If you dont know, its not by force to answer. I didnt call on you to answer until you gave yours. There is no crime in asking for clarification of your answer. If the question was beyond you, it was better to gracefully walk away.

Besides, i love my profession, if i would go back to school for my Ph.D, its going to be within my profession.

chris81964:
Since you know what you are looking for. Answer your own question then. When that fails Google it.

A simple 'i dont know' should suffice or better still no need to throw attitude by keeping it to yourself instead of throwing questions to the same person who asked in the first place.

After the wild goose chase for no apparent reason, you send me back to google! If i had the answer i was looking for from google i wont be asking you. I blame myself for playing nice even when it was clear you had no idea.

chris81964:
The charge time is resolved. Now which has more stored? You answered it. The 12 V equivalent to the 24 volt system will be 800 AH.

That has been answered already. 1st system has 4800wh when full and the 2nd has 9600wh when full.

If to say the second inverter was 12v, there is no way to connect 3 x 8v batteries. The same thing goes to the first inverter if it were 24v, 6 x 2v batteries will not work. Thats why i prefered an example of a battery bank that can be connected in both 12v and 24v systems. Besides both cases are series connections which is not the case i am trying to compare.

chris81964:
I will ask you a question too. I have 6 400 AH 2 V batteries on a 12 V system or 3 400 AH 8 V batteries on a 24 Volt system.

They both have 20 A chargers which would charge faster and why?

The buckets are the same size and the rate at which I can fill it is the same. Which one will I fill faster?

No need to over complicate a matter. Serial or parallel the size of the buckets are the same and the rate I can fill it is the same.

At first sight of the configurations, i assumed the first will charge faster.

However, i need to calculate it to know for sure. Let me get on with the calculations as best as i know it.

1. 6 x 400Ah x 2v all batteries must be connected in series to have a total of 12v 400Ah (current remains same on series connection).
Total power is 12x400=4800wh
Charging time is 400/20=20hrs

2. 3 x 400Ah x 8v all batteries must also be connected in series to have a total of 24v 400Ah (same reasons as above)
Total power is 24x400=9600wh
Charging time is 400/20=20hrs

At the end, if the calculations are right, they both should charge at the same rate. From your analogy, the first system is like a 48 litre jerry can and the second is like a 96litre. Using a 12mm diameter nozzle (12v) to fill the 48L and a 24mm dia (24v) to fill the 96L with water flowing at the same rate of 20L/min (20A charger). Both may fill up same time.

In this case, the bucket or jerrycan are not the same size because the actual size of a battery in a bank is the total power it can store. Another example with exactly same bucket but different connection will be closer to my question.

spinola:
Every system has its advantages and disadvantage.

A 24 volt Inverter for example will require two 12 volt batteries connected in series to generate the required 24 volts. In order get decent run time we are talking two 200ah batteries. These two batteries have a combined capacity 400ah, but if there are connected to a 24 volt Inverter the capacity will be 200ah. Total cost N135,000

A 12 Volt Inverter connected to a signal 12 volt 200ah battery , will give you the same run time and backup capacity as two 12v 200ah batteries connected to a 24v Inverter. Total cost N80,000

In reality my 12v Inverter with a 400ah capacity battery bank takes less than 12 hours to fully charge on most days, How? On any given day i only use half the capacity of the battery bank, and before it gets to half NEPA usually brings light and charges the bank back to full.. Now it does not always work that way because sometimes NEPA can take light for days, in such worst case situations it takes less than 16 hours to fully charge. It will never take the 20 hours suggested by the formula 400/20 because it is assuming that the battery bank is fully discharged, which my Inverter will never allow. When it it gets to a certain rate of discharge the alarm goes off.

12 hours may be considered to long for some, as many have already elucidated , the long charging hours are easy to mitigate , by buying an external charger , in which case 12 hours could easily become 6 hours or less and you will still be spending less than you would on a 24v system.

Now i understand that you are a user. My guess is that is the Mercury 2.4kva 24v inverter with 20A 3 stage charger connected in series to 2 12v 200Ah batteries. I am also a user of the 1.2kva 12v inverter coincidentally with the same 20A charger but just 1 12v 200Ah.

You mentioned 16hrs to charge even when it wasnt fully discharged. My system takes about 8hrs. This is very interesting because by the formular i have come across for calculation of charging time 10hrs is the calculated charging time for your system just like mine. The 10hrs is because 2 batteries in series still maintains 200Ah.

Of course there are losses. Aside the losses, there is Depth of Discharge (DoD) or its alternate, State of Charge (SoC). If am not wrong, manufacturers of inverters program a cut off at a certain DoD to protect the batteries. So when your inverter goes off, it doesnt mean that the battery is 100% depleted. Our inverters might have cut off at 80% DoD (or what ever the brand might have set). 20% is now the battery's SoC in which charging takes off from. That only explains why you will not take the 20hrs as in the simple theorithical calculations.

A 12 Volt Inverter connected to a signal 12 volt 200ah battery , will give you the same run time and backup capacity as two 12v 200ah batteries connected to a 24v Inverter.

This cant be exactly as your system has 4800wh storage capacity and the mine 2400wh. Runtime with same load will be twice as much as mine.

chris81964:
I am not going to teach you something you don't want to know.

Oga, i asked a simple question over and over again just to satisfy my curiousity. My room mate in the university for 3yrs and currently flat mate who is an electrical engineer has not been able to answer this question for me. I came here wanting to know from those who have the experience, if you dont want to share you knowledge, just say so.

I have had two answers to my question. One is yours and out of the people who said otherwise i quoted one for you. I am lost but more inclined towards your answer using my common sense, but as i have been thought how to logically calculate it, i arrived at a different answer. How can i know which is absolutely correct if you dont expantiate so i can understand more. I just wonder how you came of the impression i dont want to know.

Let me rephrase the question incase you change your mind.

Would the charging rate of a 20A charger be the same under a 24v series or 12v parallel system connected to 2 x 12v 400Ah battery bank?

Those who said no gave their reasons using the numerous same calculations above.

You seem to say yes. Can we learn from your experience. I want to know.

Proud to be an Abusite. Naturally ahead of you!

yahyamay:
the simple logic is that tho both is 20A charger but the volts are different. 24V and 12v
that is to say in series 20A charges at 24v (double)
and in parallel 20A charges at 12v (single)

chris81964 do you agree cos that seems to be the logical case?

Thanks for your responses.

I have made a find.

The one in my car is a Denso part 12v 100Amps 7S pulley used by Accord 03-05, Acura TSX 04-05 and Honda VIII 02.

The proposed is a Mitsubishi 12v 90Amps 7S Pulley used by CR-V 02-04 and Acura RS-X 02-06.

I guess it should fit fine but for the 10Amp less.

chris81964:
24 V 20 ah charger 400 ah battery takes the same time as a 12 V 20 ah charger on 400 ah.

It is still 400 / 20

I asked this question some comments back.

Tell me if am right or wrong.

24v with 400Ah will be connected in series. The battery Ah of the bank will be 200Ah. That will be 24 x 200 = 4800wh. Also 200Ah/20A= 10hrs right?

12v with 400Ah will be connected in parallel. The battery Ah of the bank will be 400Ah. That will be 12 x 400= 4800wh. Also 400Ah/20= 20hrs right ot wrong?

I thougt before that it beats my common sense and every imagination that same charger will not be able to charge same batteries just because of the connection. Please help me clarify cause i have been doubting these logical calculations.

This is the reply i got before.

spinola:
Your Welcome!

Connecting the batteries in parallel will double amp hours and will also as a direct consequence double the charging time, but here's the rub it will also double the run time. If for example your two batteries connected in series gives you 24 hours run time, then the same two batteries connected in parallel will give you 48 hours. in theory. Practically we would also need to take into account efficiency losses.

spinola:
This is interesting, for me bigger does not always mean better. Recommendations will always differ based on individual Use Cases.
I have a setup which consist of a 12v Inverter with two 200ah deep cycle batteries connected in parallel, making a total of 400ah. The run time in my 3 bedroom flat is approximately 48 hours. The setup cost 135,000.
Could you please advise on how much what you are postulating cost, and also how many hours a day it will run for, before the alarm goes off?

Thats my point. In every individual use case has its positives and negatives. As a system planner you have the responsibility to balance the negatives and positives.

In the case you cited above, assuming it has a 20A charger. The system should fully charge in 400/20= 20hrs.

At the point of purchase, if you had opted for the 24v inverter with same charger, charging time would not have been that long but 10hrs.

decatalyst:
Constructive criticism should be allowed nah!

Reading his post carefully tells me two things tho'

1. He is attacking personality.

2. He just wants to be heard, whether correctly or not.

Was he living in Texas before this administration or his eyes were just liberated to see how the North is?

Thats an opinion of someone who just read from him.

It may please you to know that this same man was against the government of Ramalan Yero and supported the emergence of APC in the state will his numerous comments. Only for him to turn his back soon after the new government took of. This is according to a good friend of mine who is his devout follower.

I always knew he was biting too much.

The car is a 2003 Honda Accord LX.

I went to a radio electriction to find a solution to its usual problem. The LX 1 loader CD is notorious for tripping of and on by itself. I got tired so i asked the guy to try his best. It was unsucessful as the radio kept doing it after all the soldering and trouble shooting, he gave up but when i started the car to leave, i heard a whine noise from the around the belt area. Driving away heading to the mechanics to investigate the new whine, i had to stop to investigate myself as the sound is too obvious.

I opened the bonnet while on idle, it was obvious there was a burning smell and some smoke i couldnt pick where it came from.

The mechanic removed the serpentine belt and rotated all accessories for noise, only the belt tensioner pulley was noisy, he changed its bearing but the whine was still there. Thats how we turned to the source of smell and concluded it might be the alternator. So i plugged my bluetooth OBD scanner and upon checking the battery voltage, i was sure the alternator is out. It used to be 14.3v averagely but it was reading 12.7v and lower when load is turned on. Its just a matter of time, my battery voltage will drop and the battery light will illuminate and the car will shut down.

Am off town for the weekend and the alternator is not available here, i was given an alternative but rejected it because it is not exactly a replica. I took a no AHGA55 on it and upon search i found it fits Honda CR-V 2002-2005, Acura and others.

A portion of my rectifier is burnt and the electrician has changed a few alternators but the customers didnt leave a bad one behind for him to source the burnt part.

They said the CR-V alternator is plug and play but i cant find its Amperage or know mine. I only want to guess the 55 means amperage in a way since i saw others online such as AHGA65 etc. Am lost in between 3 choices, get my exact alternator way billed to my location, use the CR-V alternator ( a little cheaper) or make a search for the rectifier?

Meanwhile, before i parked the car at home, the battery voltage was 12.4 and with load 11.9

The first is on the car

banmee:
I don't know how else to explain this. You all see it that way but we don't.

I also promised myself to not say anymore.

banmee:
We are still saying the same thing. Civilians often think of them as separate but we don't. There is the special forces group and ranger regiment which is a sub group of the army. [b]Just like the marine is a sub group of the navy. [/b]This is the reason why only the Marines serve on navy carriers. On paper they stand alone but in reality they are joined at the hip. You are saying tomato and I'm saying tomata. Different pronunciation, same meaning.

I still hope you have not missed my point. You can say Tomata but can not write it that way.

You could do better if you didnt repeat the bolded part as i see as i have not made a point. Marines are by nature amphibious and aerial, it wont be strange to find them serving in a Naval ship or flying planes and helicopters. Would they become a subgroup of the airforce when they go aerial?

Marines are commanded by a 4 star general who is a member of Joint chiefs of staff, i wonder how they would be a sub group to the Navy, they work together very often the most other armed forces but its for training, logistics and transport. Dont forget marines use ranks of the Army not the Navy!

banmee:
Bro's i can read na. what he said was "The Marines are a sub group of the US Navy", which is very correct. Or didn't you read what he wrote before commenting?

How correct are you?

The Navy Seals are a sub group of the US Navy not the Marines. The Marines is a group not a sub group of the US Armed forces.

The US Armed Forces has 5 groups as you call it.

1. US Airforce
2. US Army
3. US Marine Corp
4. US Navy (Sub group US Navy Seals)
5. US Coast Guard

US Marines is not a sub group under the Army or Navy, its a group on its own under the Armed forces.

The only thing that joins the Marine corps and the Navy is that they are both under the Secretary of the Navy just like the Army is under the secretary of the army and the Airforce are under the secretary of the airforce while coast guard are under secretary of homeland security.

Sunshinelady:
once u cheat u v cheated, talkin abt it doesnt make it less 'wrong'. Wat i ll prefer u do is stay faithful. But since u love d cheat & lie game, hope she cheats on u too & lies abt it (dats if its not alredy happenin, cos karma is usually a b.itch ) . But all d same dear..watever rocks ur boat, ur life ur rules

The problem with some of you is that even when people talk of the past, you judge their future from the past. You have no idea whether i am faithful now or not and no amount of your preaching can stop me if i want to do. If my wife wants to do, let her do. I guess when our marriage breaks up, you will do thanks giving in church since your prayers would have been answered by God.

I cant remember if i told you i love to cheat.

If you pray that my wife cheats you should also pray that your husband will not be worst than me.

While you remain there bittered that i cheated on my wife before i married her, i will be kissing my wife and making love to her and telling her how much i love her. When we say our prayers this night, i am going to ask God to provide good husbands like me to people like you. If God answers my prayers and you still think his past is his future, maybe we will ask the devil for a liar who will tell you his clean past and beautiful future so that you can make the mistake of your life.

chris81964:
The SMA comes with a 140 amp charger on 48 V. My Rich electric 6 kw has 140 Amps.
You are allowed to believe what makes you happy. I can't wait to see your 96V 80 amp inverter.

I am sure that Outback, SMA, Victron, Magnum and other very good manufacturers of inverters believe that 48 V is the way to go. You and the newest entrants into the market believe something different. I am sure one of the two is right.

I will bet on the guys that have done it for more than 40 years.

You are still not getting my point.

I am making assumptions not that i am buying any of those, its just for learning. Like the example i gave above, if i were to plan a system and had planned to buy the battery bank i mentioned above. It is better to look for another Outback, SMA, Victron, Magnum and other very good manufacturers of inverters that is a 96v and with lower charge if at all they have.

These calculations and the spec are just to help make a good choice in buying an inverter and its battery bank.

It doesnt have to be 96v, its like saying its better to buy a 48v inverter than buy a 24v like i gave a previous example or better to buy a 24v than a 12. In that case, both inverters are the same price and definately same quality.

banmee:
Bro's the guy was right na. All you wrote was add to whatever he already wrote.

There is so much difference between the US Armed forces and the US Army, you probably didnt understand.

US Army is a branch of the Armed forces which marine corp is another branch. The Army and Marines are branches of the armed forces not like he said that marines is sub branch of the army.

US armed forces has 5 branches the Nigerian Armed forces have 3 branches. Note the difference.

prico32:
Hi NLders, I & my Besty has been close friends for years now. She has been single all the years busy working, always told her she needed a man in her life but she didn't border letting any guy in, she always said she has me she doesnt need another man. Told her i'm her best friend but she needs someone that will treat her like a lover.

Most times when I use I & my fiance pix as my dp she starts giving me attitude & all that...

Recently she finally started dating someone & kept it away from me, I even asked her when I noticed, she denied at first & later admitted she was dating someone, I was angry with her for keeping such good news away from me & even lied when I asked.

I scolded her for it but later told her how happy I am. Since then she stopped talking to me or replying my chats. what should I do?

I hope she is not gay eying you all the while hoping you'd become a couple.

momentoftruth:
do you mean to say that you dated a married lady …

I mean to say married women dont keep secrets among friend circles.

Sunshinelady:
. Why are u guys like this? Y not remain faithful to her, dis isnt fair. How wuld u feel if she's sleepin wit oda dudes too?

When you read things like what i wrote, ask for more details. Among all my friends i am one of the most faithful not because i chose to be faithful to my wife but because i cant tolerate most women and i find prostitutes disgusting.

Anyways telling my woman i have been faithful all our life is a lie, of course women prefer to be lied to. I dont have space to give you reasons but know that there are reasons. There are cases i regret not taking the opportunity to bed the girls.

Infact, the real basis why women get lied to all the time is for the kind of statements your wrote above. If you act holier than thou, you will be lied to. I guess you would unconciously prefer i didnt say what i said which would have been another lie. You girls encaurage lying.

misspicy:
1) I am different from other guys

commonest lie every guy tell, they always claim to be different until they show you that habit some other guys will show

2) I won't tell anybody

never believe a guy that use this phrase he sure will tell somebody,most guys can't harbour a secret or discussion you tell them in confidence and the moment you have a misunderstanding with them,they will start voicing like my school Secretary typewriter

Women are more guilty of 2) especially married ones.

The only serious lie i told my wife that even she does not believe anymore but had thought was true was that she was 1st and only woman i slept with.

She is quite the 1st but certainly not the only.

She stopped believing it when she found a used condom in my room wrapped in tissue. That was before our wedding. Recently she found a tiny little piece of condom wrap while she swept my room while visiting (we live apart cause of work). My friend has key to that house i told her and spends most of his time in my house than his.

Sorry, the question is for the ladies but my lady isnt here to tell hers and still doesnt know for a fact.

OPCNAIRALAND:
Thats what your fellow villagers have taught you. Its a myth!

The Marines are a sub group of the US Navy. In all the wars the US Navy have fought and won, they did so using amphibious attacks to upset enemy formation and gain advantage. When they fight in terrain that lack navigable waters, they are ineffective and weak.

So the Marines is just a unit specialised in water-land battles, demolitions and seizure.

Wrong.

US Armed forces is comprised of US Army, Marines corps, Navy, Air force and Coast Guard. All have specific duties. The Marine corps are describe as amphibious, aerial and expeditionary force.

The Navy Seals are the sub group and a special task force of the Navy you mean. They are also amphibious. The name is derived from SEa Air Land (SEAL).

Wikipedia is there.

Give her the space she asked but dont withdraw totally. Women can be confused.

Pamper her and stop talking about the misunderstanding. Tell her how you feel about her at slightest chance.

AngryNigerian:
East, West, North or South, Fulani can never be far away from that smell of mmeeeeeee!

Can he now come back home & strategize how his brothers can be more organized like this in Nigeria No, he won't of course...we can always make do with some (Fulani-farmers) fightings & killings!!!

Your moniker 'AngryNigerian' says all.

chris81964:
You are not quite correct. I have a 24 V 6 kw inverter with a 140 Amp charger. What determines how quickly you charge is the battery bank and the size of the charger.
You can do parallel connections as long as you don't exceed (recommended that you don't exceed) 4 banks. You can avoid multiple banks by purchasing higher AH batteries. You can find 2V 4700 AH batteries in the market if you so desire

140A is quite a big charge.

Thats why i gave example of two inverters with same 30A charger, same 4kva, but different dc volt of 24 and 48. In this case, unless you plan on using high Ah batteries for the 24v it makes more sense to buy the 48v using the average 12v 100/200Ah commonly available.

Also i believe, an inverter with high charging current such as 140A like you have will definately be more expensive to an 80A charger.

Lets assume you have 48V 140A inverter and i have a 96v 80A inverter and we both have 16 x 6v x 500Ah batteries.

Yours will be connected 8S8P and will give you 48,000wh and take 7.1hrs to charge.

Mine will be connected 16S and will give me 48,000wh and take 6.3hrs to charge.

In conclusion, i will save more money and i would get better from my system than you. The point is, in buying an inverter the voltage, the charging Amp and battery bank Ah is directly proportional and very inportant. It is better to buy an inverter that i wont have to connect my bank in parallel.

israelpalatoe:
most people only talk of current when it comes to charging.
Power is the most important factor.

Power = Current times Voltage.

for a 12v charger with 20amps, it may take 20 hours to charge 400ah because its power is 240watt.

for a 24v charger with 20amps. it may take 10 hours to charge 400ah because its power is 480 watt.

in summary,
current is the volume of water pipe,
voltage is the speed of the water
and bucket is the battery.

for a 24v system, the pumping rate of water(charges) is
two times the pumping rate of 12v system.

that's why it takes lesser time to charge

I get the point.

Example: there is this certain inverter of Prag brand in 2 variants both 4kva with 30 charger and cost the same 165k. The only difference is one is 24v the other is 48v. Lets say i have 4 12v batteries of 200Ah.

1. 24v will give 2S2P arrangement to get 24v 400Ah. This will take 13.3hrs to full charge and store 9600wh

2. 48v will give 4S arrangement to get 48v 200Ah. This will take 6.7hrs to full charge and store 9600wh

Am I right to say there is no point or benefit of buying the 24v inverter when it simply slow down charging. It also means as much as possible we should avoid connecting batteries in parallel as it will take too long to charge. It also means if am to advise a user who already has a 48v inverter and plans to upgrade the battery bank to 8 12v batteries to better plan for a 96v inverter too.

This is interesting.

israelpalatoe:
voltage is also a factor to be considered.
12v 200ah is not equal to 24v 200ah.

when a 12v INVERTER charges at 20amps, continuous power stored is 240watt.
for 24v inverter charging with 20amps, continuous power stored is 480watt.

if both charges for 10 hours, A would have stores 2400 watthour, B would have stored 4800 watthour.

during usage, with the same load, system B would run for a longer time provided that the load that is powered are eqaul in terms of power

My question was, is it practical that a 20A charger will be able to store 2400wh in one case of 12v system and be able to store 4800wh in a 24v system at the same charge time?

Theoritically, it is so but common sense tells me that more load slows down anything.

Let me give an analogy, a car that travels at 100km/hr should be able to run at 150km/hr with the same effort if atmospheric drag is removed (vacuum introduced).

Thats the theory but its not practicable in real life since that scale of vacuum is not feasible.

So look at it more like this same 20A charger and same 2 x 200Ah in 12v and 24v system.
12v must be parallel and would charge in 20hrs
24v must be series and would charge in 10hrs

Assuming no losses is it practicable? Dont be offended, i seek proper and deeper knowledge.

spinola:
Your Welcome!

Connecting the batteries in parallel will double amp hours and will also as a direct consequence double the charging time, but here's the rub it will also double the run time. If for example your two batteries connected in series gives you 24 hours run time, then the same two batteries connected in parallel will give you 48 hours. in theory. Practically we would also need to take into account efficiency losses.

Thats some revelation.

I was thinking there is some way that the same battery bank would work in same way connected in series or parallel.

Let me ask further.

Assume 1: 1.2kva 12v 20A with 1 x 200Ah battery

This set up should give 200x12=2400wh
This set up charges full in 200÷20=10hrs

Assume 2: 2.4kva 24v 20 with 2 x 200Ah batteries

This set up should give 200x24=4800wh
This set up charges full in 200÷20=10hrs

Dont you think its strange that the same charger of 20A will charge 1 x 200Ah battery in 10hrs and charge 2 x 200Ah of the same batteries in the same 10hrs. Dont you think the battery connect alone should do better than 2 of them connected in series using same charger? Something tells me there is something missing.