₦airaland Forum

italo: *Ignored*

yes, simply because you have no more lies to put foward.

The first that says the Hades/Purgatorium
inhabitants are judged before going there (a future judgment) has been refuted because It has been clearly shown that they are judged in the second judgment.

The second lie that states that Jesus's 1000-year reign has started has also been refuted (with just a point found in rev 20:2-3)....and immdiately you were refuted, refusing to own up or bow in shame, you diverted to this one that has just been clarified.

No more lies to put foward! Now claiming to be 'ignoring'.....mtcheeew....smh for your ignorance.

I mentioned earlier that you'll eventually shy away claiming you're ignoring.....and thats whats happening.

No problem anyway. Its the normal thing you do.

italo: You have started you dishonesty again. Where did i say they believe God exists. Pls, if i outrightly ignore your posts in future, know that im just not ready to waste time on your dishonesty.

smh.

italo: Do you know the "some things?"

If you dont know the things that are hard to understand in Paul's letters, doesnt that make the whole complicated?

Add the other scriptures which are hard to understand and tell me the Bible is easy to understand.

so now, has the 'some things' Apostle Peter said the 'unlearned and unstable' misunderstand made the whole bible 'hard to understand' for everyone?

So, was Paul lying/joking when He said 'when ye read, ye may understand' (referring to his writings to the Church)?

italo: Ignorant and unstable. It says they should flee the errors of lawless men and grow in grace.

Who has ever agreed that he is ignorant?

nobody has.....including you and I.
Not forgetting all individual pastors and other priests, monks and popes in the catholic church.

italo: Adeboye, Kumuyi, Oyakhilome are all wise and they're teaching different things.

was the Holy Spirit confused/Joking or saying something impossible when He said 'study to shew thyself approved unto God......rightly dividing the word of truth.

Pls, note that that wasnt to the church. It was to an individual (Timothy)-a man like you and I.

italo: Mtchew!

Come back here!

Are you trying to escape?

italo: Atheists know there is such a thing as religion and faith Iin the true God[ but they know there are many claims to it though they dont believe in lt like you dont believe in apostolic succession.

Why should I clarify true apostolic succession to you if you dont want to clarify true religion to Atheists?

The bold isn't true.
They believe there exist no such person as God.

italo: I'd love to explain the Catholic faith to you, but first I have a request to make.

Can you please take my name off the title of the thread?

I'm not comfortable with it.

"Catholics please defend your doctrines here" wouldn't be bad, would it?

Thanks and God bless you.

Following this thread.

I have similar questions too (not any form of critic though)....just to be clear about some things you do.

Regarding the thread title;
Are you not proud of being a catholic?
However, if you want it removed, I urge the op to pls, do so.

italo: 2 Peter 3:15 - And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you:16 - As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

Peter and I never said Scripture cannot be understood, like you are trying to make sound.

We say there are certain things hard to understand.

It seems, even this, is hard for you to understand, much less scripture.

Not you and Peter.
You alone....because Peter believes that its some parts.

The bold in what I quoted in your statement reads
"You believe the Bible is easy to understand?"

Did that refer to some parts in your understanding?

Thank God you now agree that itz some parts.

So, who did Peter say will not understand?
....and how can it be understood?


Honest answers.

italo: No answer is given you because, in the first place, you have no regard for apostolic succession.

It would be like answer an Atheist's question on the Bible. You'd be wasting your time because they have no regard for the authenticity or veracity of the Bible. Go and try it. There are many Atheists on nairaland waiting for you to answer them questions on the Bible.

https://www.nairaland.com/1515303/some-arguments-against-bible-joshthefirst#19499428

When you do that, and get any results, I will answer you.

Atheists?
Much more different.

We both know that:
They don't even understand why they don't believe in God, they can't even explain what they believe in (especially the cause of the big bang).....how do you expect them to believe what's in the bible?

So, I don't waste time with them though I leave them with puzzling questions that shows them that they are without reason for not believing in God.


Our own discussion;
I know there such thing as apostolic succession but do you know how many claims are linked with it?
If that can be cleared, it would be much more better.

Just like the same way I know that there's a God approved religion and there are several claims as to which one is.

italo: Deceit!

I never narrowed this question to those few verses.

I asked about the passage and you know it.

That's no deceit.

It would be wrong for me to say that the whole passage talks about judgment and aftermath- which you may misunderstand my opinion.

That's why I separated them and showed what each talks about.

italo: It should be, only, you earlier told me it talked about eternal damnation too.

If eternal damnation isnt the aftermath of judgement, then does judgement day last for eternity?

Please clarify.

Check the verses I posted (13-15)
or maybe I should post them fully.


13 Every man's work shall be made manifest:
for the day shall declare it, because it shall be
revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every
man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built
thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall
suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

These talks strictly about judgment (and reward) only.

The one that talks about destruction, which I mentioned earlier is

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him
shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

This is the destruction verse....and the reason for destruction is clear.

Very simple!

Hope that's been clarified.

italo: You have no regard for apostolic succession. It is no use wasting my time.

Keep believing your CEO, Kumuyi.

You see, no honest answer.

For now, they are dubious claims which you don't expect me to believe and since you can't clarify your position, it remains a dubious claim.

Anyway, it doesn't mean a thing to me (as long as they are not clarified).

italo: You believe the Bible is easy to understand?

Let us see what the one whom Jesus made our shepherd thinks:

2 Peter 3:15 - And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you:16 - As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

You see that you and St. Peter are not practising the same faith?

You see that your interpretation is different from that of St. Peter?

So what religion are you practising?

If the catholic church believes the Catholic Church believes the bible to be hard, Fine.
The Apostles Paul and Peter do not believe this. Their positions are clear.


Similarly, I (personally) don't believe that the bible is hard to understand because it is not a piece of riddle neither is it a pair of puzzle....though there are some parts that may be difficult but with proper study, it becomes easy.

We'll analyse this with reason....

Ephesians 3:3-4

Apostle Paul said:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto
me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand
my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Here, the Apostle Paul shows He believes that you'll understand His writings to the Church.

Let's examine Apostle Peter's words.
1 Peter 3:16

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of
these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Here, He believes some things (not all) are hard to be understood in the 'bible' (see the first bold), He further says that they that are 'unlearned and unstable' (which I believe no Christian is....perhaps atheists and some other mischievous people) wrest....not all the scriptures and epistles (Bible) as Italo suggested.

Wrest according to Merriam Webster dictionary means:

1. to pull, force, or move by violent
wringing or twisting movements
2. to gain with difficulty by or as if by force,
violence, or determined labor

So, in that context of the Apostles message (wrest simply mean 'understand with difficulty') so, we can conclude that only the 'unlearned and unstable' misunderstand or understand the scriptures and epistles with difficulty. as Apostle Peter did.

....and if there's any Christian that is 'unlearned', here's apostle Paul's message of advice.

2 Timothy 2:15

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Chikena!

If the apostles believe (and say) you can do it (understand the bible), then you truly can (don't be deceived you can't).

italo: That's why I'm not heckling people to believe as I do... I mainly react when my belief is attacked.

I know what I believe is true, but I understand that not everyone would feel that way.

So I propose the truth i know when I can, when they refuse, I let them be.

I dont set out to attack other people's faiths because I am not a Pentecostal.

Now, what part of that is biting your body?

Perfect, well said.

Nothing bites me at all.....

I also believe what I practice is true and God-approved (just as so many other people....even Hindus do).....and I, of course, do not/cannot force it on others, though, I try to make them see truth because I can't see my brother practise what I believe to be 'wrong'....and if they refuse, and rather condemn me by calling me 'a liar' or 'false teacher', I just mind my own business as 1 Thess 4:11 teaches me.

However, I don't also support it when someone tries to claim 'primacy'/'authority in Christianity with half-truths.

italo: Perhaps you need to mind your business and remove the speck in your own eye first...

...then you might see the beam in Chukwudi's eye.

Likewise you towards Ukuts gp.

italo: Dummy, when you quote an already quoted piece, it doesnt appear.

I expected you to copy and paste in a new quote.

italo: The bold is very correct.

It has to be.....because that's what you believe.....it is not necessarily true (the truth).

Like you said "what is true/correct to you doesn't mean a thing to the next person"

chukwudi44: HYPOCRITE!! WHY DIDNT YOU ADVISE YOUR PENTECOSTAL BRETHREN NOT TO JUDGE PEOPLE


Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:

Luke 6:37.

Do you want me to scold him again for what he had already been scolded for?

Of course, your brother quoted this verse for him and said nothing about your words (you, of course, the culprit; did not accuse your brother of being hypocritical on that issue)....and that's why I brought it to his attention (not yours) and He showed the right attitude towards it.

Here you are again with your usual 'abusive' words.
If I may ask you; why are you unwilling to learn (and change)?

Ukuts gp:
The guy
learns it from the catholic church. And the
thing is in his blood

Pls, Don't make me believe these words about you especially the bold.

italo: Perhaps he learnt it from your fellow Protestants who make it their occupation to curse Catholics day and night.

Hypocrites!

....and why did He not follow this;

"Bless them that curse you, and pray for
them
which despitefully use you."
Luke 6:28

Perhaps, You (personally) need to teach him how to be obedient to lessons in the bible if He cannot learn it directly from the bible or from your Church.

italo: Why should we bother our heads when you have absolutely no regard for apostolic succession?

You believe in those who set up their private businesses and call it God's Church.

You say 'regard'?
Regard for dubious claims?
Perhaps, when its set straight.

and....the question before you is:

Who do we believe?
The Roman catholics or the orthodox?

If you have no serious answer, indicate please; and stop making the whole 'claim' more dubious.

italo: Congratulations!

Jehovah's Witnesses also think you're doomed for not believing that Jesus is Archangel Michael.

Pastor Chris thinks you are in error for regarding masturbation a sin.

Many Christians think you and Kumuyi are retarded for preventing people from watching TV.

Why should I believe you or take you serious when your fellow Protestants think you're crazy?

Excuse me,
May I know the reason you carefully removed all the doctrines concerning the catholic church?

In addition to all is quoted;

ukuts gp: 1. The daily mass-394 A.D.
2. The doctrine of purgatory(pope
Gregory)-593A.D.
3. Prayers to the virgin, Queen of
heaven-600A.D.
4. The first pope(Boniface 3)-610A.D.
5. Kissing of the pope's foot began in 709 A.D.
6. Temporal power of the pope declared in
750A.D.
7. Worship of images, relics and cross, this
began in 788 A.D.
8. Holy water blessed by a priest-850 A.D.
9. Veneration of st. Joseph-890A.D.
10. Canonisation of dead saints(pope John
the 15th)-995A.D.
11. The mass declared to be a sacrifice of
christ-1050A.D.
12. Celibacy of the priesthood and
nuns-1050A.D.
13. The rosary introduced by peter the
Hermit in 1090A.D.
14. Selling indulgencies began in 1190A.D.
15. Doctrines of transubstantiation adopted
in 1215A.D.
16. Confession of sins to human priest-1215
A.D.
17. Adoration the water(pope Honorius)-1220
A.D.
18. Interpretation of bible for laity-1229A.D.
19. Scapular declared a charm against
dangers-1287A.D.
20. Communion under one kind-1414A.D.
21. Seven sacraments declared in 1439A.D.
22. Superstitions of the Ave Maria(pope
sextus)-1508A.D.
23. Tradition established as infallible
authority.-1545A.D.
24. Apocryphal books added to the bible in
1546A.D.
25. Infallibility of the popes-1870A.D.
26. Mary declared the mother of God,
1931A.D.
27. Assumption(translation) of the virgin
Mary, 1950A.D.

Likewise, the catholics believe that if you don't practice/believe in these (and many more similar ones), you're in error, out of the true church and perhaps- lost.

italo: Please, just stop making me waste my time. If you cant answer my question, I will only attend to your points if/when I feel like.

Whatever you feel about it doesn't move me.

Is it accurate to say that you dont know if the passage is talking about judgement alone, or judgement and its aftermath?

Following.

That conclusion is inaccurate.

The passage (1 Cor 3:13-15) talks strictly about Judgment (and reward) only. No aftermath.
Is that ok??

chukwidi44: you and your entie lineage would be the ones
to end up in hell.Oloribruke ode!!
you and your entie lineage would be the
ones to end up in hell.Oloribruke ode!!

chukwudi44: You are extremely silly and not even qualified
to be called a fool as your intellect is far lower
than that of fools.who first started the cursing
on this thread!!! Bloody slowpoke

I can't believe all what I'm seeing here.

Italo, can you see your brother?

Don't make me believe you were taught all these at church because what the bible teaches is:

"Bless them that curse you, and pray for them
which despitefully use you."
Luke 6:28

So where did you learn all these?
Cos It's not Christ-like.

italo: "Christians" these days are even seeking EVERY WIND OF DOCTRINE.

Examples of these doctrines:

Ukuts gp:
Every Wind of doctrine eg:

1. The daily mass-394 A.D.
2. The doctrine of purgatory(pope
Gregory)-593A.D.
3. Prayers to the virgin, Queen of
heaven-600A.D.
4. The first pope(Boniface 3)-610A.D.
5. Kissing of the pope's foot began in 709 A.D.
6. Temporal power of the pope declared in
750A.D.
7. Worship of images, relics and cross, this
began in 788 A.D.
8. Holy water blessed by a priest-850 A.D.
9. Veneration of st. Joseph-890A.D.
10. Canonisation of dead saints(pope John
the 15th)-995A.D.
11. The mass declared to be a sacrifice of
christ-1050A.D.
12. Celibacy of the priesthood and
nuns-1050A.D.
13. The rosary introduced by peter the
Hermit in 1090A.D.
14. Selling indulgencies began in 1190A.D.
15. Doctrines of transubstantiation adopted
in 1215A.D.
16. Confession of sins to human priest-1215
A.D.
17. Adoration the water(pope Honorius)-1220
A.D.
18. Interpretation of bible for laity-1229A.D.
19. Scapular declared a charm against
dangers-1287A.D.
20. Communion under one kind-1414A.D.
21. Seven sacraments declared in 1439A.D.
22. Superstitions of the Ave Maria(pope
sextus)-1508A.D.
23. Tradition established as infallible
authority.-1545A.D.
24. Apocryphal books added to the bible in
1546A.D.
25. Infallibility of the popes-1870A.D.
26. Mary declared the mother of God,
1931A.D.
27. Assumption(translation) of the virgin
Mary, 1950A.D.

These are the major ones that majority go after as you rightly said.

and others like:

- Flogging of Church members
- Not wearing shoes to Church
E.T.C

italo: They keep going to and fro like sheep without shepherd.

While the Shepherd seeks for them, may they not be devoured by wolves in the wild. Amen.

The shepard- The Holy Spirit/ Christ wants us to speak the truth In LOVE.

.....Not everyone coming up with his doctrine.
We must all seek (and know) the truth.

italo: 20 - And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me;21 - That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.22 - And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, as we also are one:23 - I in them, and thou in me; that they may be made perfect in one: and the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me.

That is a good prayer to start with.

Wow! Really awesome prayer.

There's also something similar and a hint on how it can be achieved here.

14. Till we all come to the unity of the Faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

how can it be achieved?

14. That we should be no longer children, TOSSED TO AND FRO AND CARRIED ABOUT WITH EVERY WIND OF DOCTRINE, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15. but speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the Head--CHRIST.

....the Ephesians 1:17-18 prayes aids this too.

italo: Do you say 1Cor 3 is talking only about judgement; judgement and its aftermath; or you dont know?

I have been asking this for almost a week now.

we have agreed that the passage (1 Cor 3:13-15) talks about Judgment....and reward.
Now, the bone of contention:

what is this reward and what is the 'saved as through fire'

you said reward= Heaven (aftermath).
I insisted that it isnt specified...so, I cant conclude.

'Saved as through fire'
You said purgatory,
I said judgment.

Of course we tested both and purgatory was found to be 'without sense' in that passage.

....and I have told you (not once, not twice) that I cant conclude cos it remains unspecified.
Perhaps, If I study more and gain more insight, there might be a conclusion.

.....by the way, have you cunningly bowed in shame by diverting to this topic?
What happened to all whats in the post you quoted?
You gave a reply not relating to what you quoted.

italo: Please what is the significance of this Orthodox matter?

we want to know who to believe.... The Roman Catholic or the Orthodox cos you're both Claiming 'successorship'

Ukuts gp: 1. The daily mass-394 A.D.
2. The doctrine of purgatory(pope Gregory)-593A.D.
3. Prayers to the virgin, Queen of heaven-600A.D.
4. The first pope(Boniface 3)-610A.D.
5. Kissing of the pope's foot began in 709 A.D.
6. Temporal power of the pope declared in 750A.D.
7. Worship of images, relics and cross, this began in 788 A.D.
8. Holy water blessed by a priest-850 A.D.
9. Veneration of st. Joseph-890A.D.
10. Canonisation of dead saints(pope John the 15th)-995A.D.
11. The mass declared to be a sacrifice of christ-1050A.D.
12. Celibacy of the priesthood and nuns-1050A.D.
13. The rosary introduced by peter the Hermit in 1090A.D.
14. Selling indulgencies began in 1190A.D.
15. Doctrines of transubstantiation adopted in 1215A.D.
16. Confession of sins to human priest-1215 A.D.
17. Adoration the water(pope Honorius)-1220 A.D.
18. Interpretation of bible for laity-1229A.D.
19. Scapular declared a charm against dangers-1287A.D.
20. Communion under one kind-1414A.D.
21. Seven sacraments declared in 1439A.D.
22. Superstitions of the Ave Maria(pope sextus)-1508A.D.
23. Tradition established as infallible authority.-1545A.D.
24. Apocryphal books added to the bible in 1546A.D.
25. Infallibility of the popes-1870A.D.
26. Mary declared the mother of God, 1931A.D.
27. Assumption(translation) of the virgin Mary, 1950A.D.

Well, as Italo said, what is true to you may be untrue to others......and people are proud of what they practise.....even 'babalawos'

If Catholics believe all these to be true and God-approved, and they're proud of all these then fine, I cant label anyone as 'hell-bound' but I will not cease to pray the prayer Apostle Paul prayed in Ephesians 1:17-18 for all christians.

italo: You have to first tell me who it is that the Orthodox Christians believe to be Peter's direct successor, how they believe he is Peter's successor and how it conflicts with the Catholic position as you're implying.

I'm all ears.

who it is they believe: their Patriachs (bishops)

how they believe:
they believe the church was built on Peter's confession of faith.
Their same bishops that confess the same as Peter is his successor and not different from him (Peter).

How it conflicts with your position:
you believe the church is built on a man- Peter

You believe He's first pope and see him as leader of the other apostles. They believe He's not superior to any of the other apostles....and that they're all equal....so as their bishops are today.
You believe Francis is the head- The church is on him and hes not equal to your other bishops...he's superior.

I'm open to corrections on catholic positions and pls, be kind to clarify the position if I've made any error

italo: Yes.

This is what i'm most interested in.

italo: The above makes no sense and doesn't refute my position.

of course, that wasnt to refute your position.....it was just to set things straight.

Your position has so many implications.....We'll discuss them in bits (cos my fone cannot allow me to say all at once)

The first that refutes you is that in the 1000 year reign, Satan will have no access to deceive anyone (Rev 20:1-3).

If you insist the reign has started, remember the devil is still deceiving billions....even deceiving some to believe that there is no God.....and some to believe that he is not deceiving them.

italo: You ascerted that Lazarus and the rich man hadn't been judged. Scripture doesn't say this. You're appealing to your personal tradition and that makes you a failed hypocrite.

not my personal tradition. Jesus verified the rich man was in Hades.
Revelation says those in Hades 'will be judged' not 'had been judged'.

You ascerted that they have been judged.
Scripture does not say this, I guess its your own personal tradition.

italo: And here's your earlier statement:

You're saying life=resurrection=judgement?!

Meaning 'they had to be judged (live - resurrect) to be judged and to be judged (live) after judgement.' --paraphrasing you above statements.

You're saying:

1. Those who live and reign with Christ for 1000 years are judged for 1000 years.
2. Only righteous people are judged.

wrong paraphrase as usual....and the bold makes no sense.

They are judged forever. the passage (v6) says they're 'blessed and Holy and the second death has no power over them'..
Does that not teach you something or are you unwilling to learn?

italo: ROFLMAO! Arent you hilarious?!

I should call a doctor to carry out 'a proper check-up' on you.
Perhaps, He'll know why you're ROFLYAO.

italo: Oh! First you accuse me of shying away; then when post, you say I'm rushing. You're one hell of a hypocrite, arent you?

no, you always want to hear the whole truth, reject it and claim you're ignoring.

italo: So where does the Bible say only those who didnt die avoid hades/sheol. Your personal tradition again?

did the bible not tell you that or describe hades/sheol as the realm of the dead?

Doesnt that mean that those who dont die avoid it?

It also gave examples of men that did not die and it does not say they go to sheol....similarly, others who wont die, it says what will happen to them....KingK even clarified that.

italo: And I maintain that. Can you show me another statement of mine that says some will not be sent to purification from the 1st judgement?

thank God you maintain that.
You said in one of your posts that 'there are some who dont live after the first judgment that will live after the second....and you went further to say that they are in hades, sea etc'

I just reminded you of your former statement so you wont mince words.

Now that we have agreed that hades is purgatorium in latin which means purgatory in english.

Now, do you have an evidence from that passage that supports that some will be sent to purification (in purgatory) after the first jugdment....or is the evidence in your church's oral tradition?

italo: You're the one shying away...while accusing me of shying away. I thought by now you should have brought your proofs.

we'll know who shys away in the end.

Harbosede02: "u gurls"are u ok??we do make up,fyn,so wat u are
insinuating nw is dat wen we r going out we sud jst go out luking
shabby??we do make up 2 luk presentable,itz jst dat sum gurls has abused
d use of make up by using it anyaw

You've answered yourself in the bold.

Beautiful girls dont look 'shabby' without make up they always look presentable.

Saint Chukz: SMH....Your arguments are always 'literal' but it lacks proof of a well thought process.

to start with learners.

The quote above is usually from someone who did not read the agument at all or read with bias (most likely catholics)

Others can judge to validate your opinion.

Well 'Saint',
your non-literal/spiritual arguments/contributions that has all the proof af an 'excellently thought process' are welcome.

I hope you dont mind delivering them.

italo: Maybe yours. Kumuyi.

are you cleverly/cunningly trying to avoid that question?

I never claimed that Kumuyi is Peter's direct successor but you claim Francis is so does the Orthodox christians claim their bishops is....so, who do we believe? I ask again.

Behold, at last a reply!
Perhaps, a new lie or twist to muse over.

Lets examine anyway.

italo: You have given me conflicting positions. You ascerted "judgement alone." Then you said the passage talks about eternal damnation (which is the AFTERMATH of judgement. Later, you said "Judgement and its reward." And you said you dont know what "reward" is...meaning it could be heaven - AFTERMATH.

I'm not the one giving conflicting positions.
Thats exactly how the passage puts it.

It mentions- Judgment and its reward--which remains unspecified in that passage.

The same passage further states that 'anyone that destroys God's temple will be destroyed'

You dont expect me to imply conclusion (regarding the reward) and assume it to be right.

I cant just imply Heaven as the reward.
Why: the passage states that those that have unburnt works will get that reward.....with which work will others get reward? Is it the burnt same burnt works?

italo: Jesus already reigns in eternity (1 Cor. 15:24-27, Rev. 4 & 5) and that in this world His reign, established as a seed, is found already in the Church. This is the 1000 years, which is the Hebrew way of indicating an indefinite long time - in this case, the time between the first and second comings, the era of the Church, in other words the last days in the broadest sense.The Book of Revelation situates this era between the persecutions of the Roman antichrists of the first century and the final unleashing of evil at the end.

before we start....
Does the bold mean that the 1000year (which you say is Christ indefinite) reign has started?

If you mean actually has, then you are utterly wrong!
And if you think youre not, tell me.
Now, the whole twist.
Lets set things straight again.

First, we know the book of Revelation talks about the future (second coming of Christ and its aftermath) in the broad sense and not 'last days' before the second coming as you twisted (matt 24 and other parts of the bible talks abt 'last days' before the 2nd coming) though, Revelation talks a little about what we have through Christ as a result of our redemption.

italo: You are ascerting not on what the Bible says, but on personal oral tradition. You're a hypocrite because you proclaim Bible alone and try to force I who dont believe in in Bible alone to give you proofs from the Bible. Meanwhile, you cannot prove or disprove my point from the Bible. You have to dubiously resort to personal tradition.

There you fail!

did you not read that passage?
Thats exactly what is said not 'my tradition'.

italo: Stop trolling. Even those who came to life did so after the 1st Judgement.

no, the judgment itself is the first resurrection.

italo: Good. Not everyone goes to hades/sheol. So where does the Bible say only those who didnt die avoid hades/sheol. Your personal tradition again?

we'll still get there, you dont need to rush.

italo: You cleared nothing in the former post. You offered a blunder, saying it's a fact that only the resurrected (that live) could be judged...when rather resurrection came after the 1st judgement.

hope you now understand?

italo: What kind of proof do you want? Proof from personal tradition like you offered for your position above?

My position is that: there are souls who did not live after the first judgement who will live after second judgement. Whether they are in hades or sea before the final judgement, I dont know. The passage supports/doesn't oppose this. It's enough proof.

have you changed your mind?
Have you forgotten that you said that there are some that will 'be sentenced to' go through some form of purification after the first judgment?

italo: Why are you telling me instead of going right ahead and proving me wrong?

hopefully, we'll get there.
I really hope you will not shy away before then and claim you're ignoring just as you did on the other thread.