₦airaland Forum

italo: Please, on this thread, I want to deal with verified/verifiable facts, not wild 'market woman-like' talk.

Thank you.

Alright.
Agreed as you have said; verified/verifiable facts only.

italo: None that we know of...just like we know of no Scripture that supports that Christ told his apostles to write any books or compile any book and call it "bible."


And we all know that Sacred Tradition is true.

The first statement is not completely correct....the part in bold is wrong with emphasis on 'write any books'.

John is instructed by Jesus Christ to write the book of revelation- rev 1:11 (that makes your statement a lie).
No subtle lie(s) again please.


regarding the next in bold, I hope you don't mind giving at least one doctrine that originates from oral tradition that the bible is silent about.

italo: Purgatory was "invented" by God.

having fully understood that you cannot prove this purgatory concept on the other thread (claiming to ignore rather than answer simple questions), your claim can be likened to that of the muslims that declare that 'Muhammad is a true prophet from God sent to restore the faith of Abraham and other prophets'.
I hope that is correct.
....and
If you dont believe them, then why should I believe you?

woky: dnt mix bad words with your bad mood. You will have many opportunities to change a mood, but you wil never get the opportunity to replace the words you spoke..
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Woky cant or dnt wnt to answer those questions does nt mean that the pope too cant answer the questions.. Mind the way u typ, let ur hands dnt be faster dan ur brain.
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Udo!!

are you defending or protecting your 'infallible' Francis?

unongu: 5th Decade: The Coronation of Mary as Queen of Heaven and Earth (Rev 12:1) (Luke 8:21) (Gal 4:19) (Cor 4:17) (Gn 3:15a) (Sir 24:4) (Jdt 13:18, & 15:9).

The references in bold are irrelevant to me.

How do those bible passages correspond with 'coronation of Mary as queen of Heaven and Earth'?

You just come here and vomit all the dogmas you have been fed with by the catholic church from childhood right?

Eberex: If they are contrary to the scripture why is she still standing after 2000years? Why is the catholic church still united? Can you hear yourself at all?

I shouldn't be the one to start teaching you that united people prevail even when practicing the wrong thing.

Take for example: The builders of the tower of babel were united in doing what God was against and nobody could stop them except God Himself.

Hinduism as a religion has survived for centuries (with unity) even when we all know that it is not the true religion (most probably against God's will) because we know fully well that God wants all humans to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

So, get more points bro!

Eberex: You are a bush person, for how can you expect oral and tradition be included in the Bible? Is it possible to put down all what you did from childhood? All your traditions,both the ones you met on ground and those you created too? Abeg go sleep joor

Bro, I think you don't even understand what you quoted before you posted your reply.

Eberex: many people dont really understand what traditions means and how important it is. When Jesus was on earth he still had to follow the Jewish traditions, why?

You may as well help clarify the importance of tradition since 'many don't understand' as Ψσù have said.

italo: You have been heckling me all through this thread accusing me of bringing up past teachings, blind accusation and all sorts.

Now that I bring up a current teaching of theirs which is a lie, you suddenly dont want to discuss it.

Yet you told me to face the truth. Why dont you want to face the truth that JWs teach lies now?

And what have you been heckling me for?

Perhaps, I'll be involved in the your discussion on this issue after myself and Jman and other witnesses discuss it using the bible as a guide.

Afterall, I never interfered in your discussion (on current teachings) with Jman and other witnesses on the other thread, I just followed your discussion.

I'm only 'heckling' you on this thread (as you called it) because you were kinda one-sided in your opinion with them after all the explanation that was given (always referring to past teachings and leaving out the catholic church's part).

italo: JWs teach that Jesus is not God. This is a lie.

But before I supply evidence, I would like to know what adsonstone their talkative advocate thinks.

@adsonstone,

When JWs say Jesus is not God, but he is Archangel Michael, are they telling the truth or are they lying?

That is MY business with them.
However, when we'll discuss and look into the bible for confirmation, you'll surely be around.

Mind you, I'm not in anyway taking sides.

italo: If it doesn't bother you whether they taught lies or not, why dont you keep shut and allow people it bothers to talk about it?

Now, I begin to wonder what really bothers you about their teachings that you must talk about it.
Perhaps, because they've successfully exposed the lies and deceitful teachings of the catholic church.

Of course, if it doesn't 'really bother' me doesn't mean that it doesn't concern me.

So, as long as you're concerned, I'm concerned too.
Lies must not spread!!

italo: Are you admitting that they taught those in the past?

Did I deny that those things were not taught?

By the way, I'm not a witness. It doesn't really bother if those things were was taught or not.

Witnesses here have explained what they taught in the past and the reasons/motives behind them which.

try69: Kumuyi and russell wouldn't have been a team if not for a cause

To spite the truth/church

No, that's no teamwork.

Your brother is one-sided/hypocritic about the issue at hand; criticizing a group because of their 'past teachings' (even after their explanation) and leaving out his Group's 'past-errors'.


When theists (including Christians and Muslims) tell Atheists what should be known, are they in a team to spite atheists?

Think.

italo: You want me to face the truth? Okay accompany me in facing Jehovah's Witnesses "gospel truths."

First things first...did Jehovah's Witnesses teach those "truths" or not?

If they did, were those "truths" true or false?

All you're just doing is 'blind criticism'.

I said 'face the truth' and the question was: has any witness taught you these things you accuse them of at any tine they visited you?

You can't even answer that as simple as it is yet, you keep railing accusations of false teachings.

If they have taught these in the past, I'm sure you'll understand what they meant from what loveroftruth and Jman05 explained on this thread and the other Jw thread you opened unless you choose to ignore their words and continue your accusation.


By the way, answer what I asked you
(the bold).

italo: What do you mean by gospel truth?

That Jesus came in 1914?

That heaven got filled in 1935?

That Abraham, Isaac and Jacob came to earth in 1925?

All these Jehovah's witnesses prophecies (and many many more) are what you call "gospel truth?"

Italo, face the truth.

Has any witness visited you to teach you any of the above?
If they haven't, I think you don't need to bring up these things.


Its not different from when a non-catholic brings up some 'amazing facts' in the history of the catholic church and condemn you guys with that.

I receive Jws with love and I read their publications.

italo: Dont kill yourself. Truth doesn't need announcement.

100 likes

italo:

I thank GOD this is a public forum.
Everyone here can witness your ignorance of the truth and your diversions when you have no excuse.

You can choose to ignore truth....of course, because you cannot change it.

Peace, Bro.

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italo: Ppffff!!! Smh

What the heck is this?

Have you found out the truth (and too embarrassed to admit it) or are you ignoring again?

amanda2013: Italo pls kindly ignore this thread.

Reason?

italo: What has "ignorance" got to do with your lie?

Okay, show other people on this thread where I said Enigma is a liar on that thread, let them know the liar between you and I. Or is everybody but you ignorant?

You have clearly chosen to ignore what I said about that issue that's why I tagged that attitude 'ignorance'

Anyway, no problem.

I will show them only if you show other people on this thread where I claimed I know exactly how Jesus danced on the other thread.

italo: Why are you "fraudulently" refusing to clarify true religion to Atheists as I sent you to do? Is it because "religious delusion," as they call it, cannot be clarified?

You're the one using that fraudulent means of telling me to clarify religion to atheists.

Clarify what's before you and stop diverting fraudulently.

italo: Where is it that people suffer loss before being saved "as through fire?"

You can answer this question.
I'll help you with a question guide.

Answer this honestly and you'll have your correct answer.

Where is that place where everyman's work will be revealed by fire on the day of the Lord?

jamace: -Need I tell you that the Catholic Church existed over 300 years before the Bible?

-Need I tell you that Jesus gave apostle Peter the mandate to head His Church, which is the Catholic Church?

-Do I need to confirm to you that each inspired writer's book was a separate book and that the Catholic Church collated these books and bound them into one book and gave it the name BIBLE?

-This may hurt you but it is the absolute truth that, ALL the authors of the NEW TESTAMENT are Catholics. Read the history of each author for confirmation.

BIBLE- Compilation of Scriptures, Epistles and Other inspired Books. (Agree or not, that is the TRUTH!)

If you say the catholic church existed years before the bible that's a LIE (half-truth).

Why: Some of the books making up the bible existed thousands of years before the catholic church.

Regarding the bold, this is same lie catholics go about spreading (You guys can even say Jesus was a catholic!, no lie is hard for you guys)
You always claim all apostles were catholics, that's untrue, they are part of the christian church.

The same way, the orthodox christians claim Mark was an Orthodox christian, infact, He is regarded as the first patriach.

I know that hurts because its the truth....nothing hurts more that the truth.

italo: Nothing was clarified. "Show me where I called him liar" was my constant call.

One month later, you can't show it.

Nothing was clarified--simply because of your ignorance.

italo: I told you to convince Atheists of the authenticity of the Bible and Christianity. I even gave you a thread. Have you? When you do, I'll clarify apostolic succession to one who has no regard for it.

even before you fraudulently brought in the 'atheist issue' you refused to clarify....now, you think you have found a reason to bluntly refuse right?
Well, I guess the reason behind all these avoidance is simply 'human tradition cannot be clarified neither can it be changed to God's will' or is that wrong?

italo: Yes. I verified that they dont speak of purgatory inside your lying and hypocritical head.

are you a comedian or learning to be one?....because it must be one of the above considering your above statement.

Anyway, re-analyse that passage using both sides (judgment only/ judgment and aftermath).....I dont mind joining you though.

italo: And you forget your "Enigma" lie?

Or you deliberately pretended not to see it.

Anyway, I just wanted to prove I have evidence of your lies and hypocrisy.

While you just call me liar without evidence.

Just for fun.

What else do you want me to clarify?

the bold is correct.
I delibrately pretended not to see it.
Why: I suppose it has been settled/clarified on that thread.

Clarify claims on apostolic succession....

By the way, have you verified that the passages you presented on puragtory do not speak of such?

babestell: One thing we all agree on is that Our Father in Heaven is a loving and generoud God. He does not desire to see any of his children persih. We all know that nothing unclean will enter the kingdom of God, nothing with even the slightest speck of sin, and also we know all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. If we were to stick to this principles then nbody will see heaven or God because we all sin (in our thoughts, words, actions, by ommission or commision) everyday we sin. And most times we do not know we sin and therefore we do not ask for forgiveness and these sins are just there counting against us, because the devil our adversary is very good at counting.

The doctrine of Purgatory hinges on the fact that surely for those in state of venial sin, there must be a way for them to see God at the same time losing all that is sin about them. If you choose to believe this then fine for you. If you choose not to believe the fine for you. Only judgement day will we all come to the same reasoning.

Just know that this doctrine has been around since at least the 12th century that is 800years. So for 800 years the catholic Church has been preaching the wrong thing (according to some people) and the God we serve let the Church survive this long!
The God I know/serve would not let such a fallacy that is capable of leading his people to condemnation hang around for so long.

The good news is tat the month of November is the month when we in the Catholic Church pray for the dead. I have booked plenty masses and am saying daily rosaries that they may be delivered from torment and united with our heavenly Father

Here's a reasoning catholic.

Regarding the bold.
The first; God does not want His children to perish--now, the question is He interested in the perishing of others that are not Christians (if His children are christians), will He be happy to see them perish?
Obviously no.

The next, thank God you acknowledge that the purgatory concept did not start with the church.....and you also said it has survived for 800years! That's quite a long time

similarly, Islam has survived for over 1400yrs with over 1bn followers,

Hinduism has survived for centuries.

Judaism has started even before Christ came and it is still in existence till date!

and I guess you dont expect God Himself to correct humans on errors they make.

....does it mean that God doesnt care about these people too?

italo: Here's your full reply below.



Why esle would you omit The bold isn't true. from what you claimed your reply if it were not to deceive.

You call me a liar. That is cheap.

I call you a liar and I provide evidence of your lies and hypocrisy.

Another example: in a certain thread, you lied that I called Enigma a liar. It's been about a month and you are unable to provide evidence from that thread.

An evidence of your hypocrisy: you are averse to the Catholic Church claiming authority yet you claim authority for yourself by saying you and your Deeper Life church are infallible.

You will call me liar cheaply again...

...and I will call you liar and hypocrite WITH EVIDENCE.

regarding the bold;

I'm not claiming ANY authority....by the way, I said the church is infallible with "the Holy Spirit's guidance".

I wonder why you always remove the part in quote when you accuse me if not to deceive and lay false allegations.

and of course, why wont I be averse to the authority the catholic church claims....when those claims are made with lies and all sort of fraudulent activities.
You believe what you practice are God-approved yet He warns against them in the bible.
You fraudulently practice things not practiced by the Apostles yet you claim they were practiced by them and you want to claim authority with these things.
Authority my foot!
Why wont I be averse to it.
Anyway, I'm not 'really concerned' about whats unique to you but I wont stop praying for you. What I'm really concerned with is what general to all christians....you guys are claiming authority with clear lies and fraud.


maybe I should show you your statement again.
I think you have forgotten.

italo: Atheists know there is such a thing as religion and faith Iin the true God but they know there are many claims to it, though they dont believe in lt like you dont believe in apostolic succession.

thats your complete statement.

I replied with
"the bold is not true, they believe there is no such person as God" which perfectly answers your statement.

Of course, how can they believe there is a religion or faith in the true God when they believe there is no God??

By the way, I'm not here for your usual merry-go-round and subsequent diversions.

Clarify what's before you and stop being cunning.

GeneralShepherd: Ukuts gp, I don't know why italo,Ubenedictus are bothering with you. I know that the worst form of christian delusion is the pentecostal form.

Imagine opening a thread to declare that all catholics are going to hell! Question for you is hell real? If so how do you know? How do you even know that Yahweh is real?

I cringe when folks like you gloat is your sadistic mind about people going to hell! So all the catholic faithfuls that died long ago are all burning in hell?

Thank God for Atheism,my soul is free of such wickedness.

“The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?

which God are you thanking?
Yaweh? --that atheists believe doesnt exist??

italo: It doesnt matter how hard you try, i will only answer you if and when i feel like..until you tell me what 1 Cor 3 is talking about, and show me where i said Atheists believe in God

have you resumed twisting your old lies and false claims or do you have new ones?

You should be ignoring as you claimed.

Anyway, take it or leave it, I have made myself clear on that passage.

Even if we reason on your position which says 'judgment and aftermath' (which is no nessarily wrong), I'll still show you you're wrong for saying theres a purgatory part in that passage. (should we try?)

....and I did not accuse you of saying that atheists believe there's God.
(I think thats another form of dishonesty on your part.....trying to mix up the whole discussion, make the story long and unreasonable and finally, avoid answering the question of the subject on hand)

my reply that reads 'they dont believe there is any such person as God' was correctly in reply to your statement which read 'they know there is something as faith in the true God but there are many claims to it"(rephrased).

The bold prompted my reply--which was in line with your statement.

Perhaps, I should interfere in this issue of 'sins', it's kinda becoming something else.

*thinking*

*In a big man's voice*

Hello Children...

JMAN05: Italo don smell am. if he sees you again, e go dodge. instead of him to sincerely say it is an unbiblical tradition, he is here looking for a scripture to twist it into. dey made the bible and forgot to insert purgatory.

oh! so catholic teach the bolded? so so so you mean that infallible catholic teach that bolded? so you mean they teach the bolded? ah!!! people like italo are the MOST insincere people on earth. I know you also believe that lie italo, not so?

please when did they say this rulership of christ began?

Yes, that what's taught in his church....just as Italo said.
He probably meant Christ's 1000-year started when the church started.
Infact, lemme repost the conversation and when he was refuted.

Italo: Jesus already reigns in eternity (1 Cor.
15:24-27, Rev. 4 & 5) and that in this world
His reign, established as a seed, is found
already in the Church. This is the 1000
years, which is the Hebrew way of indicating
an indefinite long time - in this case, the time
between the first and second comings, the
era of the Church, in other words the last
days in the broadest sense.The Book of
Revelation situates this era between the
persecutions of the Roman antichrists of the
first century and the final unleashing of evil
at the end.

From all the story he wrote, I intentionally brought out the bold and asked....

Adsonstone: before we start....
Does the bold mean that the 1000year (which
you say is Christ indefinite) reign has started?

....and here was his answer

Italo: Yes

You can check page 28 of this thread to see it.

Adsonstone: Your position has so many
implications.....We'll discuss them in bits (cos
my fone cannot allow me to say all at once)
The first that refutes you is that in the 1000
year reign, Satan will have no access to
deceive anyone (Rev 20:1-3).
If you insist the reign has started, remember
the devil is still deceiving billions....even
deceiving some to believe that there is no
God.....and some to believe that he is not
deceiving them.

....and here, he was refuted.
I had not even mentioned the other points that proved the catholic teaching false.
....Immediately he was refuted, being in shame, he cunningly quoted all my statement and diverted what's on hand.

This was what he said

Italo: Do you say 1Cor 3 is talking only about
judgement; judgement and its aftermath; or
you dont know?
I have been asking this for almost a week now.

....and when this was also clarified, he claimed he's ignoring.

Smh for liars and false teachers.