₦airaland Forum

patches689:
NATO kicked Taliban out of Afghanistan

While NATO was deployed NATO controlled 99% of the country

Citation needed for that 99% figure, prove it !
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patches689:
NATO is withdrawing and now the Taliban are coming back

They should have defeated and disarmed Taliban. That is what success means. NATO failed.

See the bolded part of your comment, you have admitted that Taliban is gaining more control of Afghanistan, thanks.

NATO failed, no winner. You just admitted that
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patches689:
You shifted the goal-posts

We are talking conventional warfare

You then applied my statment to a completely different type of warfare.

You have moved the confines of the argument - this is known as shifting the goalposts

Fool, you did not think before you wrote that garbage, you trapped yourself with your own senseless words

Iran and Iraq fought a conventional war that ended with no winner, so because Iran could not defeat Iraq, then Iraq is stronger than Iran according to your M0RONIC LOGIC OF STUPIIDITY ?

Full time fool
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MulaahEG:
fu@khead then go back and bring up France vs Algeria and eat the sh&t you said

No Arab will will downgrade Algeria in favour of France, you are a South African using a false ID on a new moniker.

Likely this is still @Patches the fraudster

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MulaahEG:
I feel sorry for the Nigerians on this Blog. But sorry the South Africans is Bleep$ng you. Pls don't compare your military with theirs, you know and the rest of the world knows they are light years ahead of your military. They might even be beter then us here up North

You are a South African masquerading as an Arab.... Mulaah my foot, South African fraudster using arabic name

Keep fooling yourself
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jln115:
Boy!! You really are a sad case!

I am a happy guy who does not tell lies to the world like SAAF air force chief of staff just to market a Rooivalk, desperate marketing.

# LOL
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jln115:
I already have!

You NEVER showed us proof that only the new model Apache does back flips.

Post proof dude

Fvcking liar!

MikeCZAR:
Cool opinion!

Surface and sub-surface!

Regardless of the aircraft operated on the platforms they're surface vessels or boats!


A balanced navy has surface and sub-surface capabilities!

And oh you do realize today's warships are more dangerous to aircraft?

A balanced navy has an aircraft carrier. Simple as ABC
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MikeCZAR:
Majority or key economic hubs of the country are controlled by the government.
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As long as Taliban controls huge lands in Afghanistan, there is power sharing with the government.

Taliban territory is under Islamic law, not common law.

You go there to drink cold beer and see if Taliban will not cut out your tongue
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MikeCZAR:
Surface and sub-surface!

Any balanced navy has those two capabilities!

Aircraft carriers are part of the surface capability!

Aircraft carriers are not for surface combat, they are for air power, fleet air arm for air superiority.

Naval warfare is sub-surface, surface, and fleet air arm.

Some countries navy is in shallow waters and need no submarine like Bolivian navy.

Naval air power for air superiority, that is needed to prevent a powerful enemy air force from sinking your navy with long range aircraft launched anti-ship missiles like the Exocet and high powered anti-submarine aircraft like the ATR-72.

Britain would have lost Falkland war without aircraft carrier.

A balanced navy has at least one aircraft carrier.

There is no balanced navy in Africa.

MikeCZAR:
It doesn't control the whole Afghanistan!

Same way NATO and Afghanistan government do not control the whole of Afghanistan.

Taliban and government both share power and control. FACT !
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MikeCZAR:
Any balanced navy has submarines.

Any balanced navy has an aircraft carrier.

MikeCZAR:
.

The Taliban were defeated.

Taliban still controls a large portion of Afghanistan and rules there. America and Britain are now running away after military failure of NATO

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/world/asia/taliban-making-military-gains-in-afghanistan.html?_r=0

The best solution is for America and Britain to come and learn COIN warfare in Nigerian army academy, we will show them that a black power has can do what white powers have failed to do with all their superior technology and huge numbers of sophisticated weapons/equipment
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MikeCZAR:
Any balanced navy has submarines!

Many powerful navies have no Submarines. Instead they have anti-submarine capabilities.

Morocco has the most powerful warship in Africa but no submarine. The cost of the Morrocan destroyer can buy 3 submarines.

Belgium is a NATO member, her navy has no submarine.

A balanced navy will have an aircraft carrier.

There is no balanced navy in Africa
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patches689:
Algerian Navy of only 3 active Koni-class frigates and 6 corvettes will be utterly obliterated by the massive french navy





French will be launching cruise missiles from their fleet and Rafaels, not land stations you slowpoke

And those 44 Su-30's dont stand a chance against nearly 100 Rafeals and 124 Mirage 2000's




17 is the legal minimum age for voluntary military service; 19-30 years of age for compulsory service; conscript service obligation is 18 months (6 months basic training, 12 months civil projects) (2012)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ag.html

Yet again, your ignorance is stunning



That half-baked aircraft carrier is the only Nuclear Carrier outside of the US Navy and it carries a total of 40 Rafale M, Super Étendard, E-2C Hawkeye, SA365 Dauphin, EC725 Caracal, AS532 Cougar. The Charlles De Gaulle is by itself allmost a match for the Algerian Airforce

500 long range anti-ship missiles? Pulling numbers out of your bum again?

Well, luckily the french have 2 Horizon-class air-defence destroyers and 2 Cassard-class air-defence destroyers

The Algerian navy does not have any modern active warships that are combat ready




All of which will make great targets for "Hammer" PGM's deployed from the Rafael

Not to mention that France has 400 Leclerc MBT's which are more than a match for 300 upgraded T-72's

And Algeria only has 1 898 APC's and IFVs you liar

Those paltry 1 898 will be facing 5 567 french IFV's and AFV's



You have proved that you have no idea what you are talking about, calling the Charles de Gaulle "half backed", doubling the number of IFV's the Algerians have, thinking the Su-30 can maintain air suprioerity when it is outnumbered 2:1 by the Rafael, thinking 3 frigates can stand up to a carrier and 10 destroyers

You are a fvcking slowpoke.

Algeria will have the absolyute christ smashed out of them. They dont stand a chance.

Algeria has 500 anti-ship missiles with very long ranges, my numbers are from SIPRI.

It took only about 4 anti-ship missiles with short range to devastate Britsh navy in Falklands.

Algeria has about 5,000 anti-tank guided missiles to consume every vehicle in France's army.....that is if the French survive the Algerian 90 km range BM Smerch rocket artillery.

Algeria has about 3,000 APC and IFV, many with missiles, go look on SIPRI you retaard.

Stop writing rubbish comments from your dream land
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patches689:
You keep saying the ATAK is better
You keep saying the Rooivalk is obsolete

But you can never tell us HOW

Because you cant - there is no evidence to support your claims

Tell us the range of the FLIR on the Rooivalk, that is one vital point to compare
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patches689:
see:

Algeria has a conscript army

Thus, by definition, they are not professional

France is one of the few countries in the world was blue-water force projection - in-case you forgot, they have a full blown carrier as well as 7 amphibious warfare vessels ( 3 Mistrals to Algerias 1) so they can very easily fight that far from home.

Much is being made of Algeria's air defence network - what you fail to realize is that it will quickly be eroded by french warships slinging cruise missiles and the French airforce employing their Storm Shadow cruise missiles from over 300km away and later their AASM Hammer munitions. Algerias S300 stocks are not unlimited.

Algeria will be bombed into the stone age before the first french planes come within the 200km range of the Algerian S-300PMU-2's.

Algeria's 44 SU-30's wont stand a chance against against Frances ~100 Rafaels, the rest of the Algerian airforce wont stand a chance against the 124 remaining french Mirage 2000's.

Now lets talk logistics:

1. Algeria is in range of French Rafaels based in France (with aerial-refuel) as well as Mirage 2000's based in France (aerial refuel)
2. Algeria is in range of French air assets based in Mali, Niger and Chad.

Once air superiority is established, its just a question of mopping up.

First give me a source to prove that Algerian army is made up of conscripts, a country with bigger defence budget than South Africa.

Read:

Algerian navy and army both have massive CRAM capability, anti-missile defence capability, cruise missiles are slow speed and easy for CRAM to neutralize. Algeria has air refueling tankers, and Su-30 Flankers does not even need air refueling to attack France from Algeria. The Su-30 will attack French cruise missile sites using anti-radiation and air to surface missiles. France has weaker air defence missiles, weaker artillery systems.

Algerian army is not conscript, the regulars are 100,000 men and 150,000 reserves all heavily trained on weapons and very fit physically. The Algerian army fought an 11 year modern war against an enemy of 40,000 deadly insurgents just some years ago. France has only one half baked aircraft carrier and about 10 surface ships that will face 500 long range anti-ship missiles from Algerian navy and air force jets fighters and stealth warships plus submarines with heavy torpedoes. France's army will face about 5,000 Algerian anti-tank guided missiles, 300 T-90 tanks and about 3,000 APC/IFV many armed with missiles.

I have proved my point technically, and even the a world class military general won't dispute it
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.....

Reports say these are Nigerian pilot students with T-129 Ataka in Turkey
[img]http://kokpit.aero//image/data/P1120961.JPG[/img]

patches689:
And I made a simple sentance as well

Nope, you wrote several sentences that created argument.

patches689:
France would smash the christ out of Algeria.

The french have a massive technological advantage, and they are professionals.

So yes, you guessed, and you guessed wrong

Now go delete those comments because I am going to delete mine. Also stop the habit of just attacking some selected people's here, don't import your vendetta from the other thread to this photo place. No more derailment.

Ghana

africaken:
first of all those arabs dont consider themselves africans and would never bleed for us (all north africa countries )thats why your seeing morocco and egypt busy in yemen helping their fellow saudi arabs .

When did black armies go to Egypt to help them fight Israel? Egyptian army deployed 1,300 fully equipped troops in Congo DRC with UN force helping black Africans. Sub-Saharan Africa should solve it's own foolish, man-made self inflicted problems by itself.

Henry120:
YOU GUYS SHOULD STOP DERAILING THIS THREAD WITH YOUR POINTLESS AND IRRELEVANT ARGUMENT!!!!!

Copy that sir, I will delete all my comments in that regard. Patches started it. I only made a simple sentence of a comment on the photo of Algeria's new ship and he expanded it into derailment. I will wipe off those comments, and I hope others do the same. I salute !

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patches689:
It was designed specifically for the SAAF

Good point, that is why ONLY South African air force bought the Rooivalk. The concept is NOT good enough for any other air force.

I love your confession + suicide
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pavri:
Actually, I didn't make anything to impress somebody here. I just introduced the advanced hardware capabilities of Atak along with performance statics. If you pay attention to my statements, You would see that I didn't compare Atak with Rooivalk since It is the Apache and Mi-28 you should compare your Rooivalk to see where you are against those biggest competitors.

Heavy attack helicopters are mainly designed in cold wars to counter huge tank fleet of enemies on large flat areas, That's why They carry more AT missiles than Tiger, SuperCobra and Atak but They are not manouvrable and agile When compared with Light class. Light copters are mainly designed to be a multi-role copters which is able to perform all Anti-tank, surveillance and COIN missions. That is about requirement of countries. Being a light attack helicopter is not a disadvantage over heavy class because Each helicopters come with + and - in its characters but Atak's power to weight ratio is unrivalled. That's why She is moving like a "Ferrari" on air.

Pay attention to maneuvrings on delivery ceremony. Turkish army pilots, operating aH-1W Super Cobra, impressed Atak's performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giqEk5M4WE8

As a remind, Rooivalk was participated into Turkish attack helicopter tender but eliminated cause of being heavy, difficult to maneuvring on hot/high conditions of S. East Turkey and costly maintenance issues and problems to be caused by engine provider. Turkey as a operator of Bell Super Cobra, enjoys impressive capabilities of new copter called T129 Atak.

Besides, I see You are underestimating the capabilities guided 70mm missile called Cirit but It is one of the most effective and cheaper missile solution for operators against all type of light armoured threats and infantry. Today, many countries are developing an equivalent missile system but Turkey's Cirit is the first one which entered serial production before all of them. In trials, Cirit missile hit a moving target (65km/h), While the platform ıt was fired from, was moving over 220km/h.

BTW, Atak is able to carry 19 Cirit missiles, not 4.

For information:
https://i47.tinypic.com/zydphu.jpg

Cirit video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tvoirwJm9w

[size=16pt]

T-129 carries more modern weapons and avionics than the Rooivalk.

The Rooivalk is a 1980s concept helicopter with old 1990s equipment.

T-129 does back flips in the air, that combat maneuver will break the Rooivalk into pieces
.[/size]

MikeCZAR:
lol....who bought the Gotland class submarine.

How many countries buy submarine in this world? Almost every country buys helicopters, even Sierra Leone bought combat helicopter.

Rooivalk sales in 25 years = 12 units
T-129 sales in 5 years = 60 units.....and more to be sold soon to Nigeria and Pakistan.

Rooivalk is obsolete and a failure
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patches689:
Except radar - the rooivalk has everysingle one of these capabilities

And thats the current Rooivalk - upgrade to Mk2 status will see it jump ahead again

Nothing impressive about the t-129

Radar has made the T-29 far superior to the Rooivalk.

Rooivalk also has no guided rocket pod.

T-129 has superior cannon firepower over the Rooivalk.

The FLIR, cameras, and videos in the T-129 are all more modern than those in the ancient Rooivalk.

Dude, lets put national pride aside, the Turks are selling a better combat helicopter to Nigerian air force, better than the Rooivalk.

You see NAF pilots posing with the T-129 ? Wait till NAF announces the purchase of a squadron, then you can commit s.uicide

Nigerian pilot students with T-129 Ataka in Turkey
[img]http://kokpit.aero//image/data/P1120961.JPG[/img]
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pavri:
T-129 Atak has a protection against 12,7mm AP munitions in cockpit and motor section. Composite rotors are able to withstand against 12,7mm munitions as well.

Atak is inside of light attack helicopter group like Eurocopter tiger and USA AH-1W so Comparing Atak with those copters are more convenient. It is max. take off weights make copters light/heavy class. If costumer requires more agile, manouvrable and active copter on highly mountainous/ difficult terrain conditions to be used against various type of enemy assets, Then It is correct choice to go for light attack helicopters. Europe and Turkey prefers light attack helicopters, While USA hosts both Light and heavy class.

In additions, In terms of power to weight ratio, Atak is one of the most powerfull attack helicopter when It is compared with equivalents Tiger/AH-1W. That's why Turkish pilots call T129 as "Ferrari of sky". Even If Atak is classified as a light attack helicopter, She is able to cope with heavy attack helicopters in terms of some performance specifications such as range, endurance, rate of climb, speed. If you check out some T129 videos, You will see How agile and quick responsible It is.

At present, Turkey commenced trials of T-129 B1 variant which is a multi-role variant (Anti-tank/COIN/Surveillance mission on one platform that 360 degree covered by Electronic warfare sensors and computers to survive against coming missile).

https://i1248.photobucket.com/albums/hh498/ups434/T-129Atak-1-1.jpg

Atak uses two different Anti-tank missile called Mizrak-UIIR(IIR guided fire forget) and Mizrak-UL (Lazer guided) (which is developed by Roketsan) against heavy armoured units . Mizrak tandem warhead is able to penetrate 1100mm+ RHA armours. IIR variant is more expensive than lazer guided variant, since IIR has fire/forget and top attack modes. Atak is able to carry 8 Mizrak missiles but in accordance with mission requirements, It can be increased to 12. It is a satisfied number of anti-tank missile payload When compared with AH-1W and Eurocopter Tiger.

https://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah289/beybes/DSCN9071_zpsec9e7e4d.jpg

For less armoured units, Turkish missile maker developed a cheaper/smaller precision strike missile called Cirit. The equivalents are under development phase so Cirit is the first 2,75 inch semi active lazer guided missile system of the World and Turkey offers this missile to costumers. United Arab emirated ordered 10,000 Cirit missiles from Turkey.

https://pakarmedforces.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Pakistani-Cobra.jpg

Out of those missiles, Atak is able to carry 76 unguided rockets. No need to mention Air to air missile payload.

Avionic systems are highly advanced and dijital. T-129 Atak B1 variant is offered with obstacle detection system, lazer based wire detection system and moving map options. MMW radar will be an option since It rises the cost but offers a serious strategic capability to costumers for land target detection/engagement options. Central computer is checking everything instead of you and when copter is under a danger, EW sensors receive the type of data and inform pilots regarding it and automatically generate a counter attack thanks to jammer, chaff, flare munitions.

STM moving map/Realistic 3D navigation mode
[img]http://focusflite.stm.com.tr/upload/Node/1817/xpics/s5.p1.jpg[/img]

Helmet mounted display system is developed by Aselsan. It reflects all neccessary flight parameters to pilots, While control 20mm gathling gun and advanced electro-optic Flir called AselFlir-300T with head movements. AselFlir-300T is able to identify and detect a target with a range from 25km.

[img]http://kokpit.aero//image/cache/data/Resimler/Resimler/aselsan/avci/atakkask2-600x400.jpg[/img]

BTW, Munition stores hosts 600 20mm munitions, not 500.

Atak production documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DFI3fNVqYI

Atak in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9M2SXVaKGY

Nigerian pilot students with T-129 Atak in Turkey
[img]http://kokpit.aero//image/data/P1120961.JPG[/img]

[size=16pt]Thank you very much.

T-129 Ataka beats the old Rooivalk hands down.

Proved.

T-129 wins.....Nigeria is gonna step ahead of Africa !
.[/size]