₦airaland Forum

jln115:
"DENEL marketing show is what you saw."
Market to who exactly?
The Rand show is a civilian consumer exhibition(Largest in the world outside the US) not a Defence exhibition, the SANDF is a very very small part of the Rand show!

So tell me ,why would Denel market the mokopa at the Rand show?

Looking for more customers like Ageria.....simple marketing strategy os to place Mokopa beside Rooivalk.

Or you think DENEL marketing manager will stand there in the show carrying Mokopa on top of his head ? Like a statue ?
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saengine:
It's impossible for a tactical intelligence unit to imbed itself within an infantry, artillery or air defence unit? Its impossible? This unit cant be used just 5 meters away from a gunnery unit giving immediate firing co-ordinates?

Tactical intelligence is only allowed to work alone and not share information with anyone? Okay then

Your people here said the 14 toy radars will be carried by foot soldiers inside backpacks into the bush or mountain top for hiding out of enemy view....your artillery drives with them inside the bush and climbs mountains ?

They left the open field to hide on mountains for fear of Nigerian Shilka radar + multi-barrel cannon
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jln115:
The Biafra war, no matter how badly you want to compare it to the border war, will never ever ever be even a rain drop in the ocean compared to the border war, the faster you accept this, the better it will be for your emotional state!!!!

The Biafra war has the ONLY amphibious combined Navy, Army, Air force large scale assault in African history and one of the biggest in the world in jet age. The SADF Bush was just war inside dry bush and nothing more

That sea to land amphibious assault alone was a whole Division of Nigerian troops, bigger than the whole SADF army inside Angola

Yes, no comparison !
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jln115:
Pic supplied by @saengine, pic was taken today!

saengine:
Refer to pic. I stated missiles were on display. I added no extra information. Perhaps they just borrowed them for the weekend and will return them first thing tuesday morning.

P.S Mokopa anti tank left the laboratory a long time ago. Algeria ordered 100 Mokopa missiles a few years ago.

DENEL marketing show is what you saw.

Algeria paid cash for Mokopa, Algeria ordered for it. SAAF did NOT order any Mokopa !

We have seen photos of Rooivalk firing Mokopa missile before, yet still NOT ordered !
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Patchesagain:
Your Migs were destroyed on the ground by Biafran civilian Cessna's with rockets strapped to them

Total size of forces involved:

Nigerian Army: 120,000
Biafran Army: 30,000
http://www.litencyc.com/theliterarymagazine/biafra.php

You filthly liar.

[size=16pt]

American Research Project Case Study Of Africa's Biggest War :

Nigerian army Biafra war = 250,000 soldiers without counting Nigerian navy and air force.

Biafra too has army, navy, air force.

100,000 troops died in the war.

"HIGH: full-scale civil war, the Biafran war, 1967-1970, resulted in 100,000 military casualties. However, between 500,000 and 2 million Biafran civilians died from starvation during the war.

Outnumbered and outgunned, the rebel troops had the advantage of excellent leadership and morale. However, the FMG of Nigeria invaded Owerri, an oil rich area of the Niger delta, in 1968 and increased the Nigerian army to 250,000 men. The Biafran rebels liberated Owerri. However, but a new federal offensive in the south forced the rebels into submission."

http://www1.american.edu/ted/ice/biafra.htm[/size]

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Patchesagain:
SIPRI does not record domestic upgrades to the System which were performed under Project Rossma while we developed our own mobile radar the Kameelperd under Project Bioskoop - all completed in the mid 2000's onwards.
http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-6479/

Also, well done on confirming we have 12 of that model.

We are talking about ground search radars

You are talking about air search radars - which is weird since you have none in this category

So, all our mobile air-search radar was upgraded or built in the 2000's and our ground search radar is from 2010 onwards.

You have ground search purchased in 1980, Shilka purchased in 1980 and Roland purchased in 1980

[size=13pt]So, in terms of mobile air-search radar we are 66 years ahead of you (since you have none), in terms of mobile ground-search radar we are exactly 35 years ahead of you. Final figures compared by SIPRI[/size]

[size=16pt]

According to SIPRI final authority, South Africa has 1980s old generation radars

Supplier/ Year Year(s) No.
recipient (R) No. Weapon Weapon of order/ of delivered/
or licenser (L) ordered designation description licence deliveries produced Comments



United Kingdom

R: South Africa 12 AR-3D Air search radar 1981 (12) $64 m 'Operation Rodent' deal; officially delivered for air-traffic control
(1) S-711 Air search radar 1985 (1)


http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/trade_register.php

. [/size]

Patchesagain:
Your 50 air search radars are short range and they are nodes - they only see what is in their area - they cannot transmit information to the force commander they cannot co-ordinate defences.

Your 14 Thales air search radars are short ranged, toys on human backpack, no armour, no weapons to attack the enemy they detect. They are NOT part of SNADF datalink, they are tiny infantry radars, all 14 CANNOT kill a pigeon in the air after detecting it.

46 Nigerian Shilka and Rolands will radar detect the enemy on ground and air and kill the enemy IMMEDIATELY !

SANDF is 66 years behind Nigeria, we have ISTAR + WEAPONS integrated
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saengine:
Rooivalk nose mounted sighting system and 20mm cannon. Mokopa anti-tank also on display.

Mokopa missile from DENEL laboratory....NOT in service....not ordered by SAAF or SANDF
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Patchesagain:
No data link

No mobile air search radar

= 66 years

I gave you 25 years for ground search because I am mature enough to conduct a rational argument. I wish I could say the same for you

You were mature enough to notice imminent defeat of your argument, and adjust your 66 years down to 25 years to avoid humiliation

We have 46 mobile air search radars with 20 km range and all are armed to destroy air or ground target detected by the radars.

SANDF has NOTHING like that, your radars have no weapons for attack.

Full Data-link is NOT a weapon, and is NOT compulsory, even SANDF does NOT have 100% data-link, you are just starting with SAAF jets, etc, your army does NOT have data-link on all equipment, no money.

Data-link exists on many Nigerian weapons individually, it's no magic wand to have datalink everywhere every platform, there are other communication equipment, ATR-42 has ELINT and superior data-link to Direct NA battles. Videos have shown that in Boko war.

66 years ? SANDF has 1980s radars according to SIPRI.....you are ahead of Lesotho NOT Nigeria, we both parade 1980s radar
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Patchesagain:
Biafra war involved less than 200 000 men,

Biafra and Nigeria did not operate modern equipment. The wars in Angola and Congo were both twice the size.

Nigerian army alone was officially 250,000 troops in Biafra war, not counting air force and navy.

100,000 troops died on both sides.

We had about 30 MiG-17 jets and Delfin jets in Biafra war and artillery was modern. NNS Obuma was a modern frigate then
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Patchesagain:
If you could read you would see that is says it track and engage them - no mention of how.

It says nothing about detecting ground targets with radar.

I ask again, show us where it says the Shilka can detect ground targets with its Radar

I just did that one hour ago, and you replied to show your defeat, so let's ridicule Patches again !


"ZSU 23-4 Shilka, is capable of acquiring, tracking and engaging low-flying aircraft, as well as mobile ground targets while either in place or on the move. Employed in pairs 200 meters apart, 400 meters behind battalion leading elements, it is commonly used to surpress ATGM launch sites."

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/zsu-23-4.htm

Shilka acquires, tracks, engage, and kill ground targets even on the move....PROVED

Go jump into river Zambezi and end your Easter there
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Patchesagain:
[size=13pt]
We bought our ground search systems recently between 2005-2015. Yours are ancient 1980's tech! We have posted the stats!

Thus, since you have none, our advantage is now 1000 years!! [/size]

SIPRI says you bought ALL of your mobile radars in ancient times 1980s

You are a fraud, show us how you are 66 years or 25 years ahead

SIPRI says Nigeria and South Africa are both loaded with 1980s generation 30 year old radars !


Transfers of major conventional weapons: sorted by supplier. Deals with deliveries or orders made for year range 1980 to 2014
Note: The ÔNo. delivered/producedÕ and the ÔYear(s) of deliveriesÕ columns refer to all deliveries since the beginning of the contract. Deals in which the recipient was involved in the production of the weapon system are listed separately. The ÔCommentsÕ column includes publicly reported information on the value of the deal. Information on the sources and methods used in the collection of the data, and explanations of the conventions, abbreviations and acronyms, can be found at URL <http://www.sipri.org/contents/armstrad/at_data.html>. The SIPRI Arms Transfers Database is continuously updated as new information becomes available.
Source: SIPRI Arms Transfers Database
Information generated: 04 April 2015


Supplier/ Year Year(s) No.
recipient (R) No. Weapon Weapon of order/ of delivered/
or licenser (L) ordered designation description licence deliveries produced Comments



United Kingdom
R: South Africa 12 AR-3D Air search radar 1981 (12) $64 m 'Operation Rodent' deal; officially delivered for air-traffic control
(1) S-711 Air search radar 1985 (1)


http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/trade_register.php

[size=18pt]

All SANDF ground based mobile radars are models from 1981 to 1985.

CASE CLOSED BY SIPRI DATABASE

.[/size]

Patchesagain:
Thales Defence Systems, theThales system integrator in South Africa, is delivering an integrated tacticalintelligence system for the South African National Defence Force (SANDF)referred to as PROJECT CYTOON. Thesystem, designed to equip an intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition and Reconnaissance (ISTAR) tactical unit, has been designed to address variousrequirements such as tactical intelligence, homeland security and boardersurveillance.
https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/content/thales-reveals-project-cytoon-another-milestone-its-association-south-african-national

We have over 10 air-search radar vehicles - you have none.

[size=16pt]

We have 46 air search radar vehicles, 30 Shilka, 16 Roland, they search air....fool !

You have ONLY 5

Your web link source does NOT say you have 10 radar vehicles. Liar ! Fraud !

@Andrewza already admitted 5 units some months ago.

Show us proof you bought another new 5 units few months ago

.[/size]

Patchesagain:
[size=16pt]As usual Augubugug is up to fraud and is misquoting!!

As I said:

Nigeria is 66 years behind South Africa in ground based ISTAR and 25 years behind South Africa in ground search radar!![/size]

[size=16pt]

Nope, you just started adding 25 years today, yesterday you said 66 years all through ! Liar ! Fraud !

We forced you to do a re-think

patches689:
We are talking about how Nigeria is 66 years behind South Africa in terms of ground surveillance.

.[/size]

Patchesagain:
Empty response

When they say its integrated - its integrated.

You obviously no longer have an argument

You have ZERO proof of 100% data-link integration on ALL SANDF equipment. It costs money....SANDF is broke.

Wishes and paper work is NOT reality
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Patchesagain:
Citation needed

Who says its a german product?

Okay, my guess is German, but it's your country's equipment, show us the Ratel engine's source of manufacture
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Patchesagain:
Since we have actually fought a modern conventional war, we can tell you that they are.

Really ? SADF and Cuba were shooting at each other from 100 km distance apart, T-55, Olifant, Ratels, artillery guns, all were 100 km away from each other ? Fool

Biafra war was Africa's biggest conventional war, Biafra was a country recognized by France and South Africa. It has a fully established nation with a central bank, currency, university, court of law, army, navy , air force, many officers trained in British military academy and were university graduates.

Nigeria fought Africa's biggest conventional war of half a million troops on both sides
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Patchesagain:
No we have seen video footage of them moving them around on the back of trucks like you would a harvest of cassava

You saw video of Nigerian missiles moved around ? Where ?

You saw ordinary explosive shells, and that was in war zone, removed from storage in Nigerian army Ordnance Corps armoury, we have a whole Ordnance corp trained to international standards to store weapons ordnance and ammo
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Patchesagain:
[size=16pt]

Where does it say the Shilka can detect ground targets? [/size]

[size=16pt]

You keep asking me Stupiid questions like a fisherman....are you related to Mr.Day ?

" ZSU 23-4 Shilka, is capable of acquiring, tracking and engaging low-flying aircraft, as well as mobile ground targets while either in place or on the move. Employed in pairs 200 meters apart, 400 meters behind battalion leading elements, it is commonly used to surpress ATGM launch sites."

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/zsu-23-4.htm

Nigeria has 30 Shilkas, they do ground radar targeting AND attack to destroy with 4 barrel 23 mm cannon.

Nigerian Shilka = Radar + Firepower 4 barrel Cannon

Show me anything like that in the whole of SANDF arsenal, Nigerian army has 30 units !
.[/size]

Patchesagain:
[size=13pt]You have 2 Rasit systems bought in the 1980s- ancient technology

You cannot post any stats for your TV camera's strapped to your civilian vehicals - for all we know they are as powerfull as the camera on my iphone.

Where does it say the Shilka can detect ground targets?

We have dozens of vastly superior ground search radars as well as the Ratel observation systems - whos abilities are well documented

Nigeria is 66 years behind South Africa in ground based ISTAR and 25 years behind South Africa in ground search radar!! [/size]

[size=16pt]

You have ordinary ground radars NOT any ISTAR....the I for intelligence is beyond your vehicles capability, it's not an ATR-42 ELINT Surveyor aircraft that you put inside those vehicles....you only have STA....surveillance and target acquisition.....you think we are fools here ?

Show us data of SAN submarine radar statistics, I have asked since last year, no Southie could answer me !

You have NO dozens of radar vehicles, you have maybe 5 maximum.

Show us date SANDF bought all it's ground based radar vehicles, we bought RASIT around 1985, then we compare date and see if the difference in technology is 66 years

Nigerian Telescopic Mast Battlefield Surveillance TV Cameras were purchased brand new this year 2015, so show me how SANDF bought their own in the unknown future date year 2081 to put you 66 years ahead of Nigeria
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[/size]

Patchesagain:
[size=13pt]

Nigeria is 25 years behind South Africa in ground search radar!! [/size]

[size=16pt]Okay, so it's not more 66 years as you shouted yesterday ?

Bwahahahaha

@Patches defeated, sh.ot down from 66 feet to 25 feet...coming to sea/ground level
.[/size]

MikeCZAR:
The data link is part of the SANDF communications standards.

...standards on paper....no money to integrate 100% on every equipment. SANDF is broke
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MikeCZAR:
The Ratel engines were built in South Africa.

Citation needed.

Ratel engine is German product
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MikeCZAR:
That Rasit radar is useless now.

Indian army is number 4 super power in the world, they use Rasit like Nigeria. 30 countries use Rasit radar. Mumu domingo
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MikeCZAR:
The Thutlwa 2D radar has range of 120km+.

You can't even defend a single state with your 40km radar.

You do not need a 120 km radar when the enemy is just 20 km away in battlespace.

You think wars are fought by armies standing 100 km distance far away from each other....Fool
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MikeCZAR:
The Umlindi 3D radar has range of 500km+.
.

Prove it, and show us how many you have
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MikeCZAR:
They can't go on long trips.

You must beg for food and supplies a long the wa.

Valour frigates are useless crap warships with inaccurate guns and incompetent gunners that cannot shot on target.

You must beg Nigerian navy to teach you how to use naval guns, we have sea war experience with NNS Obuma frigate
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MikeCZAR:
A army that can't store and transport 155mm shells, you wanna tell us that army can maintain missiles for 30 years?

You see Nigerian missiles outside storage scattered all over your street ? Mumu
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lezz:
you south africans are diminishing the relevance of sources here. Do you really require source to sweeten your dish of denial? You ask for source on facts that has become a byword for the SANDF?

here are your sources, you really know so little about your own country's millitary engagements. Your only motive in this thread is your obvious love for Nigerians.

[size=13pt]
http://monthlyreview.org/2013/04/01/the-military-defeat-of-the-south-africans-in-angola/[/size]

You want to spoil their Easter party this weekend in Soweto
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andrewza:
14 radars that can be flown where needed in a helicopter or driven there In a APC. .

Nigeria can use helicopters to fly our telescopic battlefield TV Cameras around locations, or the Toyota just drives anywhere.
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andrewza:
14 radars that can be flown where needed in a helicopter or driven there In a APC. Once in locastion it can be concealed and operate with out fear. That's why they manportable.

You will conceal them without fear in Sahara desert or bare mountain tops ?

Hide radar ? When you turn it on, a Shilka radar will detect the emission interference of enemy radar from your 14 toys and Nigeria will open fire on your radar men with Shilka 4 barrel 23 mm cannon and k.ill everything called South African inside the bush
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