₦airaland Forum

patches689:
1. No, your article makes no mention of that.

So lets deal with the facts:


Level of Sophistication:
"The level of sophistication used in these systems would ordinarily be expected in NATO or American military use, rather than an African military, yet the C2 training and operational software in use from Saab a "Proudly South African" suite and is one of the brightest beacons for the SANDFs future C2 capability"

So we can see that it is as sophisticated as NATO systems.


Now, lets talk about integration

Brigade/Battalion/Company:

The system architecture the Army sought had to consist of a static C2 system to support brigade headquarters, mobile C2 systems to support battalion and company commanders, and location sensors, called “Impi” to track own forces.

Division Level:
Joint Operations Division that exercises C2 over all deployed forces. "Planning time will be reduced drastically and orders can now be sent instantaneously in near real-time", said Bothma.

National Level:
Saab Systems SA previously also developed and built the heart of SA Air Force's Air Picture Display System (APDS), which is that service's air mission C2 system. "With this new contract SAAB Systems SA adds the landward command and control domain to the existing air command and control domain in one business entity," noted Bothma. "The advantage to the SANDF is that the expertise gained in the air environment is also available for the landward Command and Control domain. Furthermore, Saab Systems SA has already integrated elements of both systems to move towards the achievement of a more integrated joint command and control system for the SANDF."

So there you have it, specific deatils of intergration from the Company level - to battalion - to brigade and then straight to J-OPS with completed intergration of the GBADS systems as well as SAAF APDS

This is no longer a contest for us

Bwahahaha

Read your long story very well, it is NOT talking about one single Chaka C2 mobile vehicle, it is talking about the possibility of having several fixed land based and mobile Chakas combined with army and aiir force command and control rooms ground based at army HQ and airports, it even added the SAAF Air Picture land head office/HQ and airport building based command and control center as part of the integration that is IMAGINARY and drawn on a 3D artist photo which you posted above.


Fact remains....One Nigerian Eagle C2 = Hundred Chaka C2 brigade level & below only capacity.

CONFIRMED BY SOUTH AFRICAN OFFICIAL SOURCES.

mzilakazi:
SANDF TROOPS RETAKE THE BASE IN CONGO.

https://www.enca.com/south-africa/sa-troops-battle-armed-group-drc-retake-base

Did you read your source before you posted it? It says further..

Just a few months ago, dozens of soldiers were recalled from the DRC on charges of misconduct and have since been dismissed from the force.

Earlier this year, a UN report, spanning 2010 to 2013, rated South African soldiers as among the worst sexual offenders on UN peacekeeping missions."

Bwhahahaa SANDF troops become evil räpists in Congo DRC ! Congrats, evil Southies spoiling the name of their fatherland abroad....räpist soldiers of South Africa, räping the wives and children of their fellow African brothers in Congo peace mission...Shame on you all !!!

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jln115:
So your saying an army General developed a C2 system more sophisticated than one that took dozens of SAABs best engineers years and millions of dollars to develop??

Did the story say that Nigerian army general manufactured the equipment? Does he have a factory to manufacture the TV screen, telephone, computers, network routers, power supply batteries, communication antenna, data CPU, and he built the Toyota vehicle by himself too etc ?

He designed the set up, be constructed the arrangement, he decided what was needed and got manufacturers to supply the parts, he probable assembled them into the vehicle. He likely is a highly trained super engineer and a black genius....NO ZULU OR COLORED SANDF OFFICER HAS THAT TYPE OF BRAIN, the whole of South Africa has to be spoon fed their breakfast by Europe, reason why your tactical data link failed, Europe refused to help you as they usually do, to build data link , they refused to transfer the technology, Southie engineers struggled for over 10 years, yet they only managed to produce INTERCOM instead of TDL tactical data link that can work from Submarine to Ship to jet fighter to helicopter to artillery to tanks....

I have always warned you Southies that your so called advanced local defence industry is 80% European made, and the day those white masters pull the lug out, South African defence industry will be reduced to Burundi level
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Centrifude:
Hey Dumb A** I didn't make anything up your own Source said
"Mobile C2 systems to support
battalion and company commanders, and
location sensors, called "Impi" to track own
forces. The Army wanted enough of these to
support three simultaneous peace support
operations elsewhere in Africa and one
training
exercise at home."

[size=13pt] The last time I check a Battalion was larger than a brigade. [/size]

You've killed your own argument with your own source. bwhahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! what a dumb a**!!!

We don't need to argue with you, all we need to do is watch you self-destruct like you always do.

Hey dude, the fact that you said a battalion is bigger than a brigade makes the whole of your comment go to the distbin.

A battalion is 400 to 1,000 men depending on the army or country.

A brigade is 4,000 to 5,000 men depending on the army or country.

You can google it, I need post no source.

So how do you debate with us Nigerians if we have to lecture you on definition of a battalion ?
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[size=13pt]

Wow ! The South Africans have stopped talking about Nigerian Eagle C2 telephone and TV....

After we showed the their South African air force command post using similar telephone and TV.

The Southies are now eating their own smelly shiit....reaping what they sowed !

.[/size]

patches689:
As I have allready shown battle-space is a realative term. A battle-space can be the size of a platoon engagement.

List where it says it can command 100 000 men and 500 aircraft

Provide technical information to prove this point.

And again, you are clearly failing to understand how a network operates - multiple Chakas operate together under J-OPs.

SAAB Systems SA MD Willie Bothma said in August 2008 the deal represented a major leap forward in the utilisation of information technology to improve the operational effectiveness of the SA Army, the SA National Defence Force and its Joint Operations Division that exercises C2 over all deployed forces. "Planning time will be reduced drastically and orders can now be sent instantaneously in near real-time", said Bothma.

Battle space, Eagle commands any size battle space....no limits !

Patches, why did SANDF choose to be inferior to Nigerian army in C2 capabilities, can you guess why ?
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patches689:
I dont care about your "argument"

What I care about is this, you said:

"it commands 30 000 men, 100 aircraft"

Show me where it says this. Where does it list specifications and capabilities that tells you this?

It commands that size of NA and NAF in NE war zone today.

Eagle cannot be said to command a particular number limitations, IT COMMANDS A WHOLE BATTLE SPACE....put 100,000 men and 500 aircraft into any battle space, Eagle C2 of Nigeria will command and control them.

Chaka C2 commands ONLY 5,000 troops maximum ! SANDF is inferior, Chaka is a toy compared to Eagle.

Patches, why did SANDF choose to be inferior to Nigerian army in C2 capabilities, can you guess why ?
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patches689:
No.

Those 30 people will be sitting 100's of Km away in J-OPs. Running the Chaka system, like they trained for with BattleTek.

As I have allready shown you in the links above.

Is the content of the links to difficult? Are you struggling to comprehend them?

Story story....tales by moonlight....imaginary war....30 people playing video games ....they have HIV, they cannot fight real war
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patches689:
That is not what it says. Battlespace is a very broad term.

Chaka also manages a whole battle-space, the battle-space of a Brigade.


battlespace
n
(Military)
a. the area of air, sea, and land that is directly involved in war

While furthermore, Chaka is just one aspect of LinkZA... we have airforce APDS combining with multiple Chaka systems through LinkZA to provide a broad picture of up to 2 divisions in the feild plus aircraft and vessels, and that is just with the systems we have purchased. See, it is a network.

or did you think that Chaka was just one stand alone asset? We are not like you, we have more than node-to-node capabilities.

Now, you said 30 000 men and 100 aircraft. Please provide details to substantiate this.

Stop asking for old citations to be reposted for you, these facts are already posted on this forum many times before.

NA had initial 25,000 men before President Jonathan added extra 5,000 SF and COIN brigade.

"Nigeria has up to 25,000 soldiers deployed in its anti-insurgency operations. That’s such a large chunk of its combat-ready troops, the government is considering withdrawing soldiers from peacekeeping missions elsewhere."

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-african-union-readies-an-army-to-beat-boko-haram-694150ba6ebb#.pbz8ixpv6

Count NAF F-7s, Alphas, Drones, Mi-24s, Mi-35s, Mi-171s, ATR-42s, Beechcrafts, Agustas, Pumas, Gazelles, Fennecs, Hercules, Dorniers, Diamonds, G-222s....we have seen all these aircraft flying total of about 6,000 combat sorties in the battle space.

Stop fvcking around, Nigerian Eagle C2 commands a whole battle space and is ALREADY BATTLE TESTED unlike your Chaka C2 that is only used in demos not real war zones yet !

The mess you created on the other thread has turned against y.ou now and is showing the weakness of your overrated Chaka C2
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patches689:
Your link does not say 30 000 men and 100 aircraft.

Does NOT have to say it, that is the size of Nigerian army troops and air force platforms deployed in Boko Haram war zone where the Eagle commands and controls with ease, real-time !

Battle space, entire battle space, size of a country....One Eagle C2 commands that much.

Chaka C2 is totally beaten and outclassed by the EAGLE !

patches689:
Please highlight where it says that it can command "a whole battle theater of 30 000 troops and 100s of aircraft"

I posted the source and details above on this page, you saw it and read it....but it hurts your ego so badly as it outclasses your Chaka C2

Battle space, Eagle commands a whole battle space for a theatre commander....NOT one small brigade for a brigade commander like Chaka C2.

One Nigerian Eagle C2 = Hundred South African Chaka C2....PROVED !!!!
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jln115:
The first pic is of the Battletech testing room, that forms part of the Chaka C2!!

Rest of your post is just your regular retarded Bull_shit

LOL....ya shot ya self in da foot ! How is a BattleTek simulator TESTING ROOM same as real combat command and control ? Battle Tek is war game players practicing on laptops, I have war game simulator in my office you fool !

C2 is real war command and control of men fighting a real enemy on a real battlefield....you are a big fraud !
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patches689:
[size=13pt]"The Hornet Command Post is a vehicle mounted with various Information Communication and Technology equipment."[/size]

Its fun what we can do with vauge and general language

[size=13pt]Is the Hornet a confirmed C2 system ? Tell us how many troops size it can command, we have Chaka C2 data, give us Hornet C2 data or at least a report on it's capabilities.....LOL....I see one old school radio comms and a manual typewriter there....no visual display. LOL
.[/size]

....

[size=15pt]

Eagle C2 of Nigerian army :

All equipment NOT shown in photo, many hardware hidden inside vehicle. CONFIRMED !

"The Eagle Mobile Central Command Post is a vehicle mounted with various Information Communication and Technology equipment."

http://www.nationalhelm.com/2016/01/photos-checkout-treasured-mobile.html

[/size]

patches689:
The initial order was for equipment sufficient for three simultaneous peacekeeping operations and one training exercise.
http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-9810/

Can you please quote where it says that the Eagle has those capabilities?

[size=13pt]

"The Eagle Mobile Central Command Post is a vehicle mounted with various Information Communication and Technology equipment. This on board equipment gives the Theatre Commander the opportunity to have first hand information of the battle space. From the vehicle the commander has access to both ground troops and air assets within the battle space .


The Eagle Mobile Central Command Post was borne is a mobile Central Command Post that is designed to link up with the troops in the field, as well as the command hierarchy.

With this, the President, Commander-in-Chief, Minister of Defence, Chief of Defence Staff and the Service Chiefs can have real time contact with the troops in the field. Added to this, the Eagle Mobile Central Command Post affords close monitoring of the activities of the troops and passage of real time information from strategic level to operational and tactical levels.


Furthermore, the platform affords the Chief of Air Staff on the move to have a look at the performance of surveillance or reconnaissance aircrafts ."


http://www.nationalhelm.com/2016/01/photos-checkout-treasured-mobile.html

.[/size]

Eagle C2 commands a whole battle theatre of an army and air force, NOT a tiny brigade of men like the toy Chaka C2
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patches689:
1. Each INDEPENDENT Chaka system is designed to command 5000 men. We have 3, so that is 15 000 men on the feild commanded by C3. These systems can then be linked together for a broader picture via link ZA AND then you can integrate the air-forces APDS

Only ONE SINGLE Chaka is reported delivered, show proof you have more than one C2 Chaka.

patches689:
No where does it say what you claim, no where at all.

We have 4:
The initial order was for equipment sufficient for three simultaneous peacekeeping operations and one training exercise.

http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-9810/

ONLY ONE Chaka C2 is reported delivered according to your own source !

"The South African Army will early next year take delivery of the first operational variants of the SAAB Systems Grintek “Chaka” brigade-and-below command-and-control system. " http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-9810/

Show us proof that 4 Chakas are delivered to SANDF.

Remember, One NA Eagle C2 = Hundred SANDF Chaka C2....Fact that you have already proved from SANDF sources !
.

patches689:
Not even worth responding to

Are you intentionally killing this thread?

And yes we can, each system commands 5k men... we have 3 right now... they can be linked via LinkZA

Your LinkZA is half dead, it is a mere INTERCOM, you have no complete data link....if you connect Chaka to it, then your C2 is half dead !

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jln115:
15 000! Over kill if you consider we have never deployed more than 3000 soldiers even during full on war!!......and we have 4 Chaka systems....So its actually 20000

Show us proof you have 4 Chakas.

Do you know how many Eagles we have too?

Conclusion, one Chaka C2 commands ONLY 5,000 troops. One Eagle commands A WHOLE army + air force combined !

Thanks for admitting that One Nigerian army Eagle C2 = Hundred SANDF Chaka C2

.

jln115:
I didn't mix any photos dude, they are numbered 15-18

Also i suggest you read the article, especially were it says that all the systems can be Linked thanks to LinkZA.

Also see your still living in denial.....A single army General cannot create a C2 system thats even 10% as effective as one which took dozens of Scientists millions of dollars and years of development to produce!

Thief, your first photo is a simulation training room of many students with many computers, that's NOT C2 command post or is it trainee students that command SANDF officers in battle zone ?

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38905:successful-simulation-exercise-at-ctc&catid=50:Land&Itemid=105

Fraud ! SANDF C2 is just one tiny laptop computer in one MRAP called Chaka C2 for 5,000 troops command only !

Eagle C2 of Nigeria beats SANDF Chaka C2 by 100 times more power/capacity ! Eagle commands a whole army and air force for Nigeria.

We own you, your army CANNOT command and control in remote area once the troops exceed 5,000 men !
.

jln115:
Chaka C2 system: In detail!!

Unfortunately i couldn't download the pdf

African Armed Forces Journal

October 2012

[size=13pt]

Stop mixing different photos dude ! The many computers lined up in that first photo is NOT a vehicle mobile Chaka C2, that photo is a simulator room playing for war games . All we see in a real Chaka C2 MRAP is one single tiny computer !

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/images/stories/LAND/LAND_new/Saab_Chaka.JPG

LOL....we have seen your Chaka C2 data and specs, it is confirmed to be a low capacity C2 platform for commanding ONLY a maximum of 5,000 troops.....it's for brigade level and below on a small piece of land space, maybe just a city.

Nigerian Eagle C2 commands a whole army and a whole air force in a whole battle theater as big as a country, Eagle is 100 times superiror and more powerful than your toy Chaka C2 !!!
.

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patches689:
bullsh1t - no one gives a fvck about your opinion, we all read the same article... it is vauge and general.

Meanwhile... this is what our Command post actually looks like

Fool, that is NOT a vehicle mobile command post, of can you fit all those men into one single Toyota vehicle?

LOL....your command post too has telephone boxes and uses laptop screens as TV screen....LOL....now you guys never knew that the Nigerian Eagle telephone and Tv screen you were laughing at is exactly what SANDF and SAAF also uses for command post equipment...fools !

Now we can say that your South African army commqnd post is just a few laptops that are doing internet browser communication equal to a civiliqn cybercafe, so you have no C2, what you have ;is a cybercafe of some soldiers sending yahoo emails to SANDF troops on the battlefield !

SANDF has NO military grade command post !!!
.
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Msauza:
Agaugust let me educate you a bit. Command post does not necessarily mean that it has to be C2 system. Some poor countries would just organise their command post using just two-way radios.

Now let's come to that one of SAAF command post. It is a composition of ATC and C2 system even your own source will tell you that. I am currently trained as an ATC in the force and I know that system well. That's why I am emphasizing that you don't have a C2 System. I have even shown that pic of yours to my colleagues and they agree with me that it is a video conferencing system.

Liar, you are a Lawyer not an air force man or airport staff. You told us you are a Lawyer.

Meanwhile, SAAF C2 is operating telephone conferencing and Skype TV as their own C2....see your own C2 also holding a microphone like Buhari did....so SAAF too is doing what Nigeria is doing....means you have no C2 according to your own half brain logic
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mzilakazi:
Bwahahahaha… agaugust tell us who installed your C2 system? Nigeria as a whole does not have the technology to develop C2 system. There is no a single company in Nigeria that can develop C2 syatem, that means you will have to import it.What is the name of that international company? C2 does not show videos dummy. That which you are having is video conferencing.

In conclusion: You don't have a C2 system only a video conferencing.

Who cares who installed it, we have it, simple. Who installed Nigerian navy situation control room equipment? We don't know but we have it.

SANDF Chaka C2 is limited capacity to only one brigade of 5,000 troops, nothing more ! Low power C2 for brigade level and below.

NA has Eagle C2 for a whole army and air force in a whole battle theatre. High power C2 for complete national armed forces and above.

Meanwhile, SAAF C2 is operating telephone conferencing and Skype TV as their own C2....see your own C2 also holding a microphone like Buhari did....so SAAF too is doing what Nigeria is doing....means you have no C2 according to your own half brain logic

.

mzilakazi:
South Africa has C2 and is called CHAKA C2 proudly designed and manufactured in SA by SAAB GRINTEK, The electronic devision of SAAB parent company. Thank you.

Don't confuse data link with C2 system.

Nope, this is NOT data link or ATC system, this is the official command and control post of SAAF, your Southie Air Force !!!!!

LOL...that means according to all South African's arguments against Nigerian army Eagle C2, the entire South African air force C2 system is ordinary TELEPHONE conferencing, see your telephone and TV screen SAAF command post

It is your SAAF combat command and control post C2...

"Through the installation of new Air Picture systems at the sector, it makes the command and control more effective and also creates more space for the staff of BACS. It has the ability to operate twenty-four hours should the situation necessitate any action to be taken.

Furthermore, the sector would be able to provide a real-time accuracy air situation picture by tracking and identifying all aircraft in the area of operation with the help of ground-based radar and radio systems in order to compile a flight plan statistic directory used by identification officers and controllers. For this purpose Command and Control personnel have developed a unique system in order to restrict flying over certain zones.

The mission controllers control all services to military aircraft engaged in the operation, and guide pilots to Combat Air Patrol positions. They also repel any possible renegade airplanes and exercise close control of interrogation missions."

http://www.af.mil.za/news/2009/034_2009.htm

https://www.af.mil.za/news/2009/033/DSC_6047.jpg
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denisfidha:
Fallen Heroes

One of the priest said "You died for Liberty, You died for freedom, you can rest now, you are at peace"
Meanwhile Special Forces were yesterday in control of El-edde as serch and rescue continues

I salute the fallen Kenyans. AU needs to fix Somalia quicker, it's dragging too long a war.

Msauza:
Nigeria's so called C2 digital system is a joke. What a joke of the century. Please, gentlemen can anyone tell me if Nigerian official truly know what is a command post. This is not a command post.

Fool, that is NOT the command post vehicle, that is a TV monitor brought outside for the president to use with a large crown watching him, the inside of the vehicle is NOT shown at all .....Fool.

FighterPilot:
I am ashamed that you would call an ordinary video conferencing a C2 system.

mzilakazi:
It looks more like my LG LED (3D) TV. Look at that telephone on the side. Is this what agaugust calls advanced. It looks more like live television recording.

LOL....that means the entire South African air force C2 system is ordinary video conferencing, see your SAAF telephone and TV screen in your South African air force command and control post

http://www.af.mil.za/news/2009/034_2009.htm

https://www.saairforce.co.za/seed/public/files/article_images/788/4a325fe94d9ad_large.jpg

SAAF has NO C2 systems according to your definition !!!!!!!
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jln115:
All these arguments start where you make a provocative and false statement, Nobody said anything about your Eagle system when it was first posted by @Henry240.

It was only when you brought South Africa and the Chaka C2 system in to the debate, that we retaliated.

AND BTW my last post wasn't directed to you, it was directed to my fellow South Africans.

Your fellow South African @frumentius started it in December, he posted Chaka C2 here and said this is an SANDF equipment that Nigerian army does not have....you started it. I am NOT retaliating, I am CORRECTING him and others like him. Do not judge other African militaries when you do not have access to all their equipment inventory.

Centrifude:
FROM YOUR OWN SOURCE

Mobile C2 systems to support
battalion and company commanders, and
location sensors, called "Impi" to track own
forces. The Army wanted enough of these to
support three simultaneous peace support
operations elsewhere in Africa and one training
exercise at home.

Stop deceiving people!

You are the one deceiving people on every thread just to make your country look greater at the expense of other countries.

My source is South African Defenceweb and is official !!!!!

[size=13pt]

⦿ Chaka C2 is ONLY for brigade sized forces and below....means maximum 5,000 troops coordination limited capability.

"Exercise Ndlovu, now underway, is expected to provide the South African Army and Joint Operations (J Ops) Division a first opportunity to test the recently-delivered Chaka brigade-and-below C2 system . "

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=20892



⦿ Chaka C2 system is ONLY for small brigade sized military operations, NOT an entire battle space the size of Scotland


⦿ Nigerian Eagle C2 is superior, it commands and controls, manages whole battle space for a WHOLE ARMY OF 30,000 TROOPS and A WHOLE AIR FORCE OF 100 AIRCRAFT, Chake C2 of SANDF is limited ONLY to 5,000 troops.....Brigade size and below to battalion of 600 troops
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