₦airaland Forum

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[size=16pt] happy independence day Nigeria...giant of Africa [/size] .

may your enemies lick the dust under your feet...amen !

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snydergp: Hi, can I also participate in your amateur simulation.

In your game boy simulation I would like to take you on about your Otomat Mk2 block II, relic

I will be happy to have you around for the NAF & NN VS SANDF NAVY war simulation. Honestly I miss you for so long, I enjoy kicking you around like a football on this forum.

yea you are right, 'old' or 'relic' weapons can kill....just like Seleka rebels old rusty AK-47 relic rifles killed and disgraced south African army

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Mike..ZA:
[/quote][quote author=Fighter Pilot]

on Otomat anti-ship missile, Roland anti-aircraft missile, Type 90 anti-aircraft artillery, Palmaria field artillery, APR-40 rocket artillery...i have proved my point beyond doubt with sources.

i only answered you all through the weekend because i want to refresh all nairalanders/readers' memory on those weapons before i post my NAF vs SANDF navy war simulation of air to sea and sea to sea combat between nigeria and south africa this week.

i will just ignore your l.u.n.a.t.i.c posts of today and achieve my objective on this forum.

a wise man who continues to argue with a fool beyond limits...will also be deemed to be a fool .

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Mike..ZA:
[/quote][quote author=Fighter Pilot]

the technical answers to your foolish day dreaming are very simple.

1. Roland SAM does not operate alone. nigerian army operates air defence regiments. a mixture of Roland, Type 90, Bofors, Multi-barrel Shilka etc

2. Roland optical mode cannot be jammed like a radar can be jammed, go back read the many Roland sources i posted.

3. nigeria has 300 Roland missiles enough to shoot down all 60 south african jets and helicopters 5 times over and over again.

4. Roland does not expose itself to jamming, it operates under nigerian army air defence regiment that has electronic warfare counter measures to prevent jamming, nigeria just modernized all its air defence electronics with Israel and Indian technology last year 2012 ending/completing now 2013.

5. Britain's all powerful Royal Air Force could NOT destroy Argentina's Roland SAM in falkland war, the sources i posted says the British army had to defeat the Argentine army in ground battle and the Roland was captured intact. google it and learn war history.

6. south african slow 900 km/h speed Hawk jets and 300km/h Rooivalk helicopters challenging Roland SAM will be exposed to the 4,000 km/h supersonic speed PL-9 air to air missiles of Nigerian F-7 jets and properly roasted by the nigerian jet fighters.

7. south africa's 26 Gripen jets have ONLY ONE single air to air missile each as at today . south african air to air power is limited to only 25 shots fired in the form of ONLT 25 Iris-T missiles.

8. south africa is NOT a super power and does NOT have the American or NATO air power to carry out a SEAD to neutralize nigerian composite air defence systems.

9. no country has monopoly of jamming, you jam the enemy radars, the enemy too retaliates with anti-jamming devices.

10. stop thinking that the enemy you will fight in war, has his own hands tied to his back and his brain locked up in a box. he will retaliate and counter every attack you make with a counter attack. nigerian generals, admirals, air marshals all have world class multi-national training.

11. Otomat missile has in-built anti-jamming devices and so it escaped all American Navy warships missile and electronic defences to defeat the warships. America is 100 times more powerful than South Africa.

12. Roland SAM war history confirmed it shoots down bombs and all British bombs directed into its area were shot down together with the jet fighter that dropped the bombs.

13. Nigerian Type 90 anti-aircraft guns is also an anti-missile defence system and its ammunition is in thousands, more than enough to shoot down all south african Umbani guided bombs every time. Type 90 ammunition speed is about 4,000 km/h but umbani bomb speed is about 35km/h to 80 km/h. all the slow snail speed Umbani bombs will be shot down by nigerian army and wasted away.

14. Type 90 AAA guns have both radar and optical mode targeting and it operates side by side with Roland SAM as a team in the same nigerian army air defence regiments. both Roland and Type 90 do easily operate well at night with night vision optical sight infra-red targeting of all enemy aircrafts.

15. Umkhonto missile cannot stop Otomat missile that penetrated all American Navy anti-missile defences with 100% victory recorded. Umkhonto missile has NEVER been tested against a sea skimming anti-ship missile, but Otomat has been successfully tested against all jamming and shooting defences of the mighty American Navy and Otomat anti-ship missile defeated all the formidable defences.

16. Umbani bomb is NOT a magical weapon that will behave like a missile, Umabni remains a bomb forever. it is easy to shoot down, and usually they are used to attack stationary targets like roads and buildings. the 35km/h speed is too slow for attacking even a Toyota Camry driving at 100km/h. you need to wake up from your fantasy dreams of miracle and magic.

17. Gripen jet CANNOT carry Umbani, only the Hawk jet can. Gripen carries only Paveway guided bomb and all south africa has is only 50 Paveway bombs purchased from America. Hawk jet is easy to shoot down by deadly air defence systems like that of nigeria.

18. both Roland and Type 90 do easily operate well at night with night vision infra-red optical targeting of all enemy aircraft.

19. you south africans fight war on internet as if it is policemen chasing armed robbers on the streets of soweto. fools !!!

20. nigerian military commanders are all world class and have tactics to neutralize any attack from south africa and use nigerian weapons in the best way to defeat all south african armed forces.


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Fighter Pilot: What you have wrote there above is a crap from someone who is totally clueless about the technology of missiles. What do you know about missile Lock-on mechanism and infrared homing. Those are the latest technology incorporated into missiles to optimise their tracking capabilities. It doesn't matter how low a skimming missile will go because the Umkhonto missile would have already been locked on to a target. Denel does not avoid anything about sea skimming nonsense. They have tested Umbani against a highly manuevrable Skua which is by far manupulative than otomat. A skua can cruise to many angle and even sea skim to the level that you want.

http://m.engineeringnews.co.za/article/sa-missile-concludes-trials-with-a-bang-2005-11-11

fool....skua limit is 10 feet above sea level, otomat is below it at 6 feet above sea level. fool

ask DENEL to test your Umkhonto against an Exocet sea skimming missile and show us the test result, since you say south africa is always firing missiles for fun like christmas fireworks

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Mike..ZA:
You will be sad to read this quote below. Which only proves that your Rolands will be a toast. "Wessels says their customer's major requirement
is in the PGM arena for bomb kits for the Mk 82
227kg (500lb) bombs. But Umbani can also be
made to fit the 113kg (250lb) Mk 81 and 454kg
(1000lb) Mk 83 bombs. "In two years' time this
could be a bread and butter product," says
Wessels. "Our bomb-kit design is an optimal
trade-off between performance and affordability
plus ease of use. We have matured the
technology sufficiently to offer Umbani in its basic
configuration to the market at stand-off range up
to 40km and with great accuracy."
Umbani has been advertised as an all-weather,
day and night system and is fitted with a GPS/INS
(Global Positioning System - Inertial Navigation
System) capability. According to Denel, the
system was designed with ease of use in mind
and has low maintenance and life-cycle costs."

only a mad.man like you believes a snail slow speed 35km/h to 80km/h Umbani bomb will defeat a supersonic speed 2,000 km/h Roland missile...you need psychiatric help....or its your father's second wife that is remote controlling your brain to think in reverse motion ?

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[size=14pt] hi @everybody, the delay in posting the NAF vs SANDF Navy air to sea war simulation is due to the distractions i got all through this weekend from some foolish south africans over old issues of Roland SAM, Otomat SSM, Artillery combat, Umbani guided bomb, etc.

i have decided to answer the SA mofos on the above topics, after that , i will have time to write and post the war simulation hopefully in the next 7 days. thanks fellow nairalanders [/size]

.[size=16pt]

British Royal Air force Runs Away From Roland SAM night combat capability: Falklands War [/size]


Black Buck Two


During the night of 3 May-4 May, Vulcan Jet Bomber XM607 (flown by Squadron Leader John Reeve and his crew of No 50 Squadron) flew a near identical mission to the first. Vulcan Jet Bomber XM598 acted as flying reserve aircraft.

This raid targeted the area at the western end of the runway. According to RAF and White's book this was intended to prevent Argentine engineers from extending the runway sufficiently to make it capable of accommodating high performance combat aircraft.

However, according to the historian Lawrence Freedman BB2 missed the runway because of the presence of Argentine Roland SAM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Black_Buck

if the world super power British Royal air force fighting at night missed its bombing raid target because of fear of going into range of Roland SAM missile, then i will be happy to invite the foolish and less competent South African air force to bring all its jets and helicopters to face nigerian army at night and attack the Roland, it will be dust to dust, ashes to ashes, R.I.P for all the south african air force pilots.

we nigerians promise to give the south african pilots a decent burial if their bodies are lucky to be found in one piece
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Mike..ZA:
The Rooivalk has Jammers plus flare dispensers to counter infrared homing missiles and operates exclusively at NOE which makes it difficult for radar to track. Nigeria has only 16 launchers meaning your army can't out flank any army. Your rolands will protected a single task force group which will consist of all your tanks,artillery,supply trucks,infantry,APCs and armoured fighting cars. This reveals the weakness I have been talking about,A MINEFIELD. And artillery to totally destroy your forces while still being confused.

for making me repeat a comment i have repeatedly posted over 20 times on this forum in the past 3 months, let me first call you a mental case beyond redemption

nigeria has electronic warfare anti-jamming systems and counter-counter measures, we just upgraded our air defence systems with India and Israel in 2012. the Israeli electronic warfare equipment are in use by nigerian army and air force, the Indian air defence electronics too have been acquired and only the AKASH 35km range SAM anti-aircraft missiles is being expected to be contracted at a later time.

no south african aircraft can jam nigerian radars because we have anti-jamming devices.

also, you cannot jam infra-red optical targeting of roland, it is not radar controlled.

nigeria has more than Roland air defences, we have many hundreds of Bofors AAA, Type 90 AAA, and SAM-7 and BlowPipe SAM missiles.

nigerian air defence is the best in all africa and will even be better when our AKASH missiles arrive from India.

land combat artillery ? nigeria also has APR-40 mobile rocket artillery with range 45km rockets and mobility of the launch vehicle is 75km/h speed on the road to close-in on any enemy artillery with longer range in 15 minutes.

now sharaaap and go to sleep its night time....dummy

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Fighter Pilot: How are you going to see that infrared goniometre at night to adjust it to the right angle in respect with the target, or are your own sunlight?
Stop confusing people because optical mode can only be used during the day, FACT

I will only take it that you are ignorant to as far as how missiles are operated. I repeat, All Roland SAM family use the same mode of operation to engage the target. Night and day has nothing to do with weather. The weather iare conditions of the atmosphere which involves wind, rain, storm, snow, etc, and has nothing to do with day and night.

Two modes of operations of Roland SAM family are;

-Radar, which remains the best mode of engagement, and
-Optical- which must be used during heavy jamming, but only during the day.

Types of Roland SAMs Missiles

-Roland 1 used only during clear weather
-Roland 2 used during unfavourable weather conditions because it is an all weather missile
-Roland 3 has an extended range

[size=14pt]

fool

Roland SAM infra-red optical targeting system means night optical targeting system. infra-red optical vision means night vision...

QUOTE :

"Infrared vision is the capability of biological or artificial systems to detect infrared radiation. The terms thermal vision and thermal imaging, are also commonly used in this context since infrared emissions from a body are directly related to their temperature: hotter objects emit more energy in the infrared spectrum than colder ones.

The human body, as well as many moving or static objects of military or civil interest, is normally warmer than the surrounding environment. Since hotter objects emit more infrared energy than colder ones, it is relatively easy to identify them with an infrared detector, day or night.

Hence, the term night vision is also used in the place of "infrared vision", since one of the original purposes in developing this kind of systems was to locate enemy targets at night "

SOURCE :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_vision

proved from the above, infra-red vision means night vision...means Roland SAM works perfectly at night, fool

[/size]

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Fighter Pilot: No wonder SA is only buying a limited number of missiles and soon we will be replacing starstreaks with our own missiles. We fire our own missiles every now and then in practice. Now tell me where is Nigeria which has never fired even a single missiles on their shelves.

only few countries ever test fire their most expensive and most important missiles in peace time. they use electronic/computerized simulators to give constant practice to their missile operators/personnel on a periodic basis....maybe south africa does not have a missile fire simulator computer

i can bet you south africa has not been wasting is Exocet missiles in a stupid peace time regular test firing or else since 8 years ago you bought the small 17 units, you have maybe only 9 left to fight a real war

your SANDF navy is already having critical shortage of Exocet anti-ship missiles with only 4 missiles for each valour frigate, but nigeria has excess supply of Otomat anti-ship missile with 40 missiles for one NNS Aradu

show me proof that south africa has been wasting its Exocet missile in your dreamland of test firing, show me source proof

countries do many missiles tests usually with locally made missiles that can be easily replaced

nigeria too has been test firing its own locally made missiles at Epe project base posted many times on this forum this month, just like south africa has been many times test firing the missiles it makes locally at home.

okay show me proof that south african Gripen jets have been test firing the 25 Iris-T missiles since 7 years ago you bought only 25 units of the missile for 26 Gripen jets....show me source to prove that you have been wasting those air to air missiles when each south african Gripen jet has only 1 single missile each

you are a big time mumu @ mugu

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Fighter Pilot: Surely, you have never seen missile before. Roland1, 2 , 3 all have the same mode of operation of engaging the target. What differs only is that one can be used in only clear whether and another during rainy and windy conditions, while the third has an extended range. All Roland system can be penetrated easily without any fuss no wonder the manufacturer also fitted it with an alternative mode of operation which unfortunately can only be operated during the day. Many countries have replaced Rolands many years ago because of its air defence instability while others retained it but supplemented it with new SAMs systems.

I am not going to blame you, all Nigerians from Generals down to their privates have never fired any missiles before, no wonder you do not even know what is the difference between all weather missiles and an ordinary missile. Now, I wonder who is a fool now.

you are still the fool

the Roland detailed specifications calls Roland 1 the daylight only version.

it does NOT list nigerian Roland 2 as a daylight only version....simple common sense tells you version 2 is both night and day version.

people dont have to write every single sentence for you to understand simple things, try use your head sometimes, when they tell you A,B,C, you should know that the next alphabets are D,E,F...unless as a fool, you cannot think outside a closed box

fool of soweto, nigerian Roland 2 optical targeting works at night because it is NOT an ordinary human eye sight system, it is Electro-Optical with Infra Red night time targeting equipment computer controlled....fool

QUOTE :

"The ROLAND 2 weapon system is intended for anti-aircraft defence..... ROLAND ensures the overall defense of a zone of 100 sq km it, comprises a radar with a range of 16 km, a sighting-optical tube with an infra-red locator that measures the difference between the missile in flight and the line of sight of the fire control radar, and a computer antenna for remote control.

After the firing, the optics remain pointed at the target, the computer generates the commands for guidance by using two different groups of measurements while adding to the result preceding the commands necessary to the correction by the real variations of the missile compared to the axis of aiming measured by the infra-red goniometer (optical mode) ."

nigerian Roland SAM will shoot down the whole south african air force in only 5 minutes in day time or night time, FACT !!!

Roland missile has 80% chance of hitting target confirmed in the specifications from source quoted below.

QUOTE :

"
Surface to Air (SAM) Roland II
Range
maximum: 6 000 m
minimal: 700 to 2 000 m according to the Ceiling
Altitude, (m) 5,500
Basic load on vehicle 10 missiles
(2 per launcher)
Detection range, km 16.5
Reaction time, sec 4-10
Firing time, sec
1st shooting: 8 to 10 seconds
later shooting: 2 to 6 seconds
Speed Mach 1.6
Reload time approximately 10 second
Probability of hit 80%

"

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/roland.htm

now we all know you are the senior fool, and your two south african friends who liked that your foolish post are your deputy fool and assistant fool

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Fighter Pilot: That jet was surely shot from an optical mode of engagement, because if it was from a radar mode it would have warned the pilot long before he could land in a trap.

Nobody disputed the fact that Roland SAMs can shoot down fighters, even F22- Raptors can be shot by Roland. My argument though is its system is easy to beat.

Drill number 1: jam its vulnerable radar system.
Drill number 2: Launch your airstrikes only at night when its only active mode is dysfunctional.

Is that not easy?

The drill above has proven to work and is what defeated Saddam's dense Roland Air defence system.

Fool

that only works for Roland 1, but nigeria has Roland 2 all weather all day all night optical or radar version.

"Roland 1 - This is the fair-weather daylight-only, version used by the French and Spanish armies on the AMX-30R chassis.

Roland 2 - This is the all-weather version employed on the AMX-30R and Marder chassis and also as a shelter mount in either a static location or mounted on a 6x6 or 8x8 all-terrain truck. Euromissile, MaK, IBH and Blohm and Voss of Germany in 1983 proposed the Leopard 1 tank chassis as a carrier for the Roland system to appeal to those countries who already used the Leopard I tank.

Nigeria acquired 16 Roland 2 systems on the AMX-30R chassis"

nigerian army Roland version 2 SAM will shoot down the whole south african air force in 5 minutes, and mandela will no air force any more !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_(missile)

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Fighter Pilot: You will waste your limited number of your missiles for something that is way cheaper to manufacture than a missile. Your poor Roland radar system will be jammed and air strike operations will be conducted only at night where your optical guidance system is irrelevant. Don't tell me about Air defence Artillery Guns which are only effective to a very low flying aircrafts and helicopters. Such we can destroy without any hesitation.

i have to say you are a mad.man and i.nsane i.diot trying to drag me 6 months backwards into old posts of how Roland SAM shot down modern Tornado advanced British supersonic jet with all its jammimg defences, and how anti-aircraft guns shot down american F-15/F-16 supersonic jets in Iraq.... fool

i will just ignore you now.
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Fighter Pilot: Nigeria military has never fired any missile in their history even in practice. Who do you think they are going to defeat with such a bad record. South African hardwares always see action in Lohatla battle school with live missiles fired. How sure are you if your Rolands and Otomats are still in good condition. Missiles, especially otomats requires to be maintained atleast once a year. The question is does Nigeria know how to operate missile technology?

please stop dragging me backwards to old posts i have argued and concluded with @andrewza and others many months ago. i am getting tired of this forum for this foolish trend of repeating the same post and answering the same question 77 times in 7 weeks.


some missiles last 45 years in service. missiles have storage rules that make them last long.

in year 2002 Morocco's navy purchased 1970 version MM38 Exocet missiles second hand condition from France.

http://portal.sipri.org/publications/pages/transfer/trade-register


there is no source in the world that says military forces MUST test fire their missiles in peace time before they use them in war time, it is a matter of choice.

south africa has only 17 Exocet missiles for 4 Valour warships instead of the minimum 32 required for the 4 warships.

how many few Exocets are remaining now since you say south african navy have been test firing the missiles already 50% short of the numbers needed ? fool

no rule says all military forces must test fire their missiles in peace time. it is a matter of choice.

bring your soweto ships near lagos and let us see how they will be kissed by NNS Aradu Otomat missiles. your sailors that witness the event will narrate the story in heaven...or hell

nigerian junior/senior military officers and their admirals, generals, marshals, are contantly training and retraining in America, Germany, France, India, China, Britain, Israel, Italy, etc

nigerian navy has no submarine and is training for submarine combat on Pakistani navy submarines, already learning to use the weapons it does not even have yet. how much more the weapons it already has for many years ? fool

only a fool like you will think that type of navy is not training to use the missiles it has on simulator or with other navies.

find another story to tell, you just wasted my whole day today and i have not even started writing the new NAF vs SAN frigates air to sea combat simulation...you this foolish time waster !

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Fighter Pilot: Umbani is more cost effective than missiles and South Africa has more of them in stock.

SAM-7 missile is very cheap too and even civilian rebels have it.

BlowPipe missile is very cheap as well

Type 90 AAA cannon fires cheap but deadly chinese cannon shells

all these 3 nigerian air defences are cheaper by far than south african Umbani bombs....

...bring your guided bombs and let us waste them for you sir. thanks

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Fighter Pilot: Man, the science that they teach you in Nigeria is rotten. Was that what you were always bragging about? You clearly misled people by assuming that bombs will hang up on the same velocity until I challenged you. Perhaps, you never knew any basics about free falling objects. Who brought up 9.8m/s gravitational acceleration of falling objects? Was it me or you.

You have never mentioned anything that the speed will increase with time. It seems to me that you are master of all trade, you've achieved Grade A in science, you are a chartered accountant, an MBA graduate and hopefully next time you will even tell us that you have a PhD. Tell us what is it that you don't know mister? People who have achieved like you will never waste their time on military discourse nor rather reason like you do. Such people are very articulate and dominate the corporate world with intelligence.

if you dont have a brain to think and do mathematics, i will help you with my own for some minutes

even now your DENEL manufacturer did not give a specific speed of Umbani guided bomb because of the issues of calculating its speed complexities due to drag, air resistance, and upward-downward occasional maneuvers trying to locate a target.

i repeat, Umbani speed is 35 km/h initial velocity at zero start up from rest and it may end its final velocity at that same speed of 35km/h if the guidance system does the upward-downward random swing to eliminate the gain on velocity of the first 5 seconds after which velocity no longer increases. the video at the end of reading this post. i proved my point.

the only speed anyone can quote for Umbani bomb without error is the 35km/h based on minimum speed gravity can help to achieve.

the maximum 80km/h speed assumes no guidance maneuver of the usual upward-downward movement that makes it to lose the speed it gains from gravity pull when coming down, then now going back upward again. the falling and rising will reduce its final speed near target possibly back to near the initial 35 km/h.

i am very correct. i am still the only person that boldly used science to calculate the speed variations of a guided bomb from initial speed to final speed at 35 km/h start to about 80 km/h finish if not swinging up and down again and again, or else it ends its runs at about the same initial 35 km/h. FACT !!!

show me a source that quotes the speed of Umbani....show me that DENEL source or any other source....

it is impossible to find it .

I have f.i.n.i.s.h.e.d you again today

name : @Fighter Pilot
qualification : Bachelors degree in Military Agricultural science.
occupation : Air Force Officer Potato Farmer
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andrewza: I would respond to augstien but he has not menstion one piece of new infomastion. Just reapting his same *crap*

tell your fellow soweto fools to stop dragging me backwards to G6 artillery 70km range vs Palmaria, Roland SAM vs Gripen, Otomat vs Umkhonto.

i dont repeat old posts unless you fools ask for it by posting misleading information to confuse innocent readers

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Fighter Pilot: Moreover, it will only be a craziest commander who can use expensive missile to stop cheap free falling bombs. My friend, you should never consider military as a career in your entire life because you will compromise your armies with such an approach. Military is not your field, you just good wherever you are employed.

Paveway or Umbani guided bomb is expensive too, like Roland missile.

in war, objective if more important than money. Argentina used a Roland missile to shoot down two British Harrier jet bombs in Falklands war, just to achieve objective of keeping the airport runway available for Argentine air force jets to operate.

your military head-thinking faculty is equal to that of a potato farmer

anyway , i never said nigeria must use Roland to shoot down south african guided bombs.

nigerian SAM-7 , BlowPipe SAM, and Type 90 ultra-modern anti-aircraft guns will do the job of wasting south african guided bombs before they reach target.

nigerian air defence is just too solid for any african airforce to penetrate, even Egypt will lose almost all its air force if it dares to enter nigerian air defence systems....and ultar-modern Akash SAM with 35km range is also coming to join the already powerful nigerian army air defences

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Fighter Pilot: Nobody is disputing by saying that Roland missiles cannot hit the fouth generation fighters.

one truth per 1,000 posts

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Fighter Pilot: Otomat does not have any combat history, it has never been used anywhere by any navy in the whole world. Umkhonto is highly optimised and proven to stop any sea skimming missiles and now that does not exclude otomat. You will run out of your Otomat and soon be left out of nothing to stop the valour class.

Gripen jet has no combat history

Valour frigate has no combat history

Rooivalk helicopter has no combat history

Umkhonto missile has no combat history

the few tests for Umkhonto missile was against drones/UAV, not a sea skimming 6 feet above water anti-ship missile like Otomat.

DENEL is avoiding testing Umkhonto against a sea skimming 6 feet on water level missile...because south african umkhonto missile will fail that test

Otomat missile has many combat tests in both america and europe against a big ship and against all american navy anti-missile defences and Otomat of nigeria passed all these tests with 100% victory

i just posted all these 2 weeks ago, why should i reapeat it ? go ask @andrewza and @saengine if they will be honest at least for once ant tell the truth openly.

you are delaying my NAF vs SAN air to deep ocean war simulation post for today by dragging me back to posts i had spent my time writing in the past.

you soweto guys are a bunch of fools

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Fighter Pilot: I may have failed my physics at school, but yours is misleading. Newton laws of free falling bodies has taught me that all objects irrespective of their size fall with the same uniform acceleration of 9.8m/s2 impacted on to them by the force of attraction( with air resistance and guided objects ignored). That does not mean that free falling bodies will fall throughout with the same acceleration. This is how it works as explained here under;

-This means for every second the acceleration will double, meaning
After 1 second, V1= 9.8m/s
After 2 second, V2 = 9.8+9.8= 19.6m/s
After 3 second, V3=19,6+9.8=29,4m/s
After 4 second, V4=29.4 +9.8=39,2m/s

That is how it goes my friend, not that garbage you have just taught people. Go back and read you high school science text books well from your best 50% minimum pass mark schools. The 33% power brain teaching a master!!! How rhetoric is it.

Lastly, umbani is not a free falling bomb but a guided munitions which takes out the targets at long ranges with quite a speed which is faster than that of a human being.

hahaha

you messed up really bad bro !

...why should i not challenge an indian in science ? i made grade A in all my sciences in high school

come to the nigerian classroom again, you want to know why you should n ot challenge a nigerian in sciences ? this is why .....

i never said Umbani speed will remain permanent at 35 km/h but that is its initial velocity at zero start up from rest and it may end its final velocity at that same speed of 35km/h if the guidance system does the upward-downward random swing to eliminate the gain on velocity of the first 5 seconds after which velocity no longer increases.

this is the reason why no DENEL source gives any speed for th Umbani bomb.

i know a basic physics formula for acceleration, v = u + at

v = final velocity
u = initial velocity
t = time in seconds
a = acceleration

for free fall objects falling coming down in a straight line, it is a different calculation from a gliding object like umbani bomb (call it any name, munition or bomb, it remains a guided bomb and not a guided missile for ever and ever...amen !)

the free fall bomb has no calculation of air resistance in that your childish arithmetical formula of your 33% indian south african brain.

you are very wrong !!!

the correct formula for umbani bomb speed is different because its is NOT free fall and faces air resistance and its own engine/propulsion drag/resistance due to its guidance control that alters its directions trying to locate a specific target, it also rises up slowly and drops down slowly at intervals trying to maneuver to its target on the ground.

the standard final velocity calculation you used by adding up 9.8 m/s many times per every second is very very wrong

" Falling cannon balls are not actually free falling - they are subject to air resistance and would fall at different terminal velocities."

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/mofall.html

the increasing velocity will stop increasing after only 5 seconds



"In all cases, the body is assumed to start from rest, and air resistance is neglected. Generally, in Earth's atmosphere, all results below will therefore be quite inaccurate after only 5 seconds of fall (at which time an object's velocity will be a little less than the vacuum value of 49 m/s (9.8 m/s² × 5 s) due to air resistance).

Air resistance induces a drag force on any body that falls through any atmosphere other than a perfect vacuum, and this drag force increases with velocity until it equals the gravitational force, leaving the object to fall at a constant terminal velocity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equations_for_a_falling_body

please never try again to challenge superior nigerian brains on sciences, reason they call us the giant of africa is not only in population numbers but also in brain quality

you are so careless you did not notice that DENEL did not give details of specific speed of umbani guided bomb because of the issues of complexities due to drag, air resistance, and upward-downward occasional maneuvers trying to locate a target.

i repeat, Umbani speed is 35 km/h initial velocity at zero start up from rest and it may end its final velocity at that same speed of 35km/h if the guidance system does the upward-downward random swing to eliminate the gain on velocity of the first 5 seconds after which velocity no longer increases. watch the video at the end of reading this post. i proved my point.

the best speed you will ever get from a falling air gliding umbani guided bomb will be about 80km/h and it will be shot down and wasted by the very many and deadly nigerian air defences flying missiles at about 2,000 km/h and AAA multiple barrel air defence guns/cannon firing over 1,000 shells per minutes and muzzle shell velocity of 4,000 km/h.


let me hear you again saying that civilians are cannot equal military men on battlefield....say it again while i educate you with the video below.....

paveway guided bomb is the same technology basics as umbani and south african Gripen jets use the paveway guided bomb as at today...notice the slow speed that will make the bomb easy cheap breakfast for nigerian Type 90 air defence and anti-missile artillery guns...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRRXK7QnxaU

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I just wasted a whole morning today replying some south africans with blocked brains, i was supposed to post new NAF vs SAN air to sea combat simulation of Umkhonto Vs Alpha jets, these guys just diverted me 5 months backwards to old time posts....its NOT easy to be on the same table eating with fools....they get you tired and fatugued

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now @all south africans, let this be the last time i will have to repeat the posts below, i hate to insult people , so dont give me a good reason to start insutling again if ypou bring up old settled arguments.


MORE FROM JUNE 2013......



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSSosDM8yG4

Gripen Jet, Rooivalk Helicopter Vs Roland SAM, Type 90 AA GUN


@all south africans, as many as you are ....i reply you all in one combines posts

you all posted very poor and internet based battle field tactics, no wonder seleka rebels defeated south african army

all you 3 south africans (including 2 soldiers) against me 1 nigerian and you still cannot win, which poor military academy did you go to ?

Roland is not on open display like new shoes in trade fair exhibition for enemy aircraft to come and hit.

Roland speed 2,000km/hr, Mokopa speed 1,900km/hr, Paveway Bomb 35km/hr,Rooivalk helicopter speed 278km/hr...and you forgot i said earlier that artilleries never stand alone to fight....Type 90 air defense gun has double cannon with anti-aircraft ammunition speed of muzzle velocity shell speed 4,200km/hr that is why it is built to shoot down incoming enemy missiles firing 1,100 shells per minute as a close-in-defensive weapon.

no Gripen or Rooivalk can jam electro-optical target guidance of both Roland and Type 90, technically optical firing guidance CANNOT be jamed electronically, thats why manufactures installed it as option if radar needs to shut down.
did you write and pass military exams or impersonator wrote it for you ?

radar will be switched of if aircraft threat is picked up by radar before a missile gets close. Roland radar detects incoming attack from 18km away.

you assume the only radar on ground is directly on the air defence vehicle, wrong, other radars independent are on the same army battalion formation for other purposes and some for deliberate decoy, older Bofors anti-aircraft guns in an air defence battalion formation will confuse any aircraft or helicopter far away 10km trying to act like a spirit or oracle and determine which radar is directly on Roland or Type 90.

no pilot will ever know what radar he is picking up from 10km away or 30,000 ft high in the middle of many targets on ground, and aircraft radar or targeting pods does not travel bending around corners, like a snake. radars are airwaves and waves travel in straight line, simple physics law.

dont add to a weapon more than its real technology can do in reality, modern weapon does not mean supernatural spiritual weapon.

south africa has no strategic air power like NATO , america, russia, china to carry out SEAD against nigeria's level of air defence and technological advancement, we are not Togo republic. 8 Grippen jets cannot do that level of SEAD.

Roland is for hitting low flying aircraft, but that low flying height is far up to 26,000 feet in the sky !

Roland shoots 8 missiles in less than 3 minutes, and reloads another 8 missiles in seconds.
Type 90 has too much ammunition resrves, its also reloaded rapidly in 7 seconds and many shells per catridge.

Grippen and Rooivalk can only carry few bombs and missiles at a time, and south africa has only 50 Paveway bombs and it will all be shot down plus any other weapons that comes also.

Paveway, Umbani, Mokopa are not among low calibre size high speed rate RCS minutions that wikipedia talks about. google the meaning of RCS, those type are usually very small and so tiny to hit.

all the south african bombs and missiles will be shot down by Roland in some seconds.

Type 90 also gives support to Roland, artillery never works alone, they work is a spider web of support.


the Argentina's Roland operator in Falkland war did a normal air defense tactical job by firing 8 missiles against 3 targets of British Royal air force, that is the battlefield standard, air defence fires extra missiles against incoming targets to ensure it shoots down everything of the enemy.

the Roland successfully h.it and d.estroyed all the enemy targets all at the same time, excellent Roland performance and record of its respected war history.

if you are infantry soldier in reaal war zone, and one enemy soldier faces you from a distance and he fires 2 bullets at you, will you fire only 1 bullet back at him because he is only 1 single man ? did you pass military academy exams or someone helped you to write your papers by fraudulent impersonation ?

Spain is NATO power still using Roland SAM today year 2013 just like Nigeria. Spain has money for weapons, not broke when it comes to military weapons buying. Spain paid about $10 Billion recently for 73 latest Eurofighter Typhoon far superior to Gripen. Spain still uses Roland SAM because it is still effective

Roland shot down both fast and slow aircraft, Harrier jet flies max speed 1,000km/hr, Tornado jet flies max speed 2,400km/hr and Roland has shot down all of them in combat, and those were British Royal air force jets pilots shat down, not even south african Gripen jets pilots that dont have enough flying hours to train annually and Rooivalk pilot that flew his helicopter blind like a bat into street electricity wires in broad daylight....south african pilots are far below the quality of British pilots Roland shot down.


Rolands wins, Gripen, Rooivalk, Paveway, Umbani, Mokopa all lose. i have posted many long details on this topic, i leave the rest to neutral public to judge us.

end of discussion


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you failed physics in school or in air force academy. 9.8m/s is 35km/hr speed, and paveway guided bomb is that slow. umbani is also slow, just glides more than paveway, you told a big lie about its high speed...show me source that says umbani bomb has high speed, show us source now or you will be called a F00L forever

....Roland missile high speed is 2,000km/hr, south african bombs will all be shot down from far away. nigerian Roland air defence wins the battle.

i promised i will rubbish those south african air force over-rated Gripen jets and Umbani/Paveway guided bombs today...and i am doing that now. any south african wants to make a F00L of himself anout Roland vs Gripen ? try it, nigerians are ready to reduce the Gripen to a useless toy today


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you are NOT a real fighter pilot. you are admin staff at air force office drinking coffee, no combat skills

stop quoting 4th generation, and a system in place to hit a Roland, what system ? all the systems in Gripen is known on internet data specs, so what system ? i defeated it, radar, then what syatem ? paveway and umbani guided bombs technical data and systems are available on internet, i defeated it, so what systems are you talking about here ? did you personally build a new Gripen or Umbani ?

i said american air force most modern jets gets shot down till today and you are boasting of south africa ?

Roland combat history says it is a perfect bomb k.iller, it k.ills all bombs from the air, so all your long range high altitude bombs are useless before Roland SAM and the umbani bomb is not a missile so it is very slow, and Roland is faster many times more to shoot down the bombs many kilometers before you reach Roland

South Africa has NO long range stand -off air to surface missile to hit a nigerian Roland SAM. go back to air force training school and learn the frustrating tactics of enemy air defence, stop doing copy and paste from wikipedia data of range and speed you cannot interprete in practical battle field engagement



you are looking for Roland from 100km away and 50,000 ft above, you fail again as usual the picture below is like a Roland you can never see from long distance.

tell me another story.

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JUNE 2013

https://www.rocketarium.com/products/RK-ROLND-L.jpg


@saengine in light fonts
@agaugust in bold fonts



So we already know your Roland is within a given radius of our artillery targets. Once you try track us with your Roland it is over for you. Your radar will give you away, that is a fact.



[b]have you checked Gripen range and confrim what i proves ? maximum time in the air is 15 minutes for Gripen, thats first big problem.

Roland operator is not a F00L, at 18km his radar sees Gripen. he waits quietly for Gripen to launch your only possible weapon...umbani bomb. you dont know Roland has high speed of switching from radar to electro-optical in few seconds push of a button, and its not ordinary human eye visual it is high-tech electro-optical missile guidance system.

great america swallowed its pride and bought Roland SAM from Germany/France.

Roland was so good and therefore expensive to build and buy, so many countries could not afford it, only nigeria in all africa

Roland does not need to switch off his rader, it Umbani and Paveway bombs are zero threat, Roland will shoot down all of them, bombs are slow, Paveway speed is 35km/hr but Roland missile speed is 2,000km/hr and we are not F00LS here my boy, dont you know basic maths and physics ? compare the speed, and Roland missile flies at 2,000km/hr perfectly shoots down Umbani/Paveway flying 35km/hr. did you pass science in school ? can 35km/hr out-run 2,000km/hr

the beginning of your failure is that you dont know that guided bombs are not really meant for moving targets that can defend themselves, they are for buildings, fixed assets, runways, roads, etc. Roland speed on ground is more about double the speed of the umbani, Roland will move away and GPS location changes to confuse the Gripen. [/b]




Your initial tracking radar tracks targets further than your missile range, so long before you switch to optical sight you need your radar switched on. That is your death sentence. Our pilots will be able to identify different targets from the safey of their cockpits. I told you South African pilots do not identify targets just by looking out the window like they do in Nigeria. So we will know exactly what to fire at.Read up on the tracking and target recongition capabilities of the Thales Digital Recon Package .



is the Gripen radar or recconaisance pod a televison screen that tells you difference between a Roland vehicle, AXM-30 Tank that has the same body/chasis/hull, T-72 Tank, Toyota 4Runner SUV, Bulldozer/Carterpillar, Industrial heavy machinery on roads, Steyr APC...do you think the things show like an CNN NEWS clearly or MTV movie on televison or like watching world cup and see Brazilian footballers different from German footballers ? sorry you are wrong its more like detection of presence of many metals on the ground too far away to be defined as Roland or Hummer 4x4 Army Jeep.

you got it all wrong.



What makes you think we need to fire at you from 100km away and at 50 000 feet? 100km is just the maximum range of Umbani. We can hit you from 6.5km if we want. I have posted about how Umbani performed a test having it change course during its flight path and still hit the target from many kilometers away http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/sauae-joint-guided-weapon-successfully-completes-difficult-test-mission-2013-04-08.



[b]you above weblink is blank, no data. i already researched your Umbani and i know its weakness and it will fail on a target that can defend itself, even Type 90 guns will shoot down the bomb.

if Gripen enters that 6.5km range you just changed to above, both the Gripen and its guided bomb will all be shot down by Roland. Argentina did it to the great British Royal airforce in falsland war, both the British jet and its two launched bombs were all shot down by only one Roland and it was not as good as nigerian Roland, it was a fixed un-movable Roland SAM. British air force never attacked that Roland again, they sent their army to capture it on land. is south africa air force better than than British air force ?

Spain is a NATO power still using its Roland SAM today and their own Roland is older version than Nigerian Roland

Germany used Roland until year 2005, for 7 years after Gripen came to service year 1998.

dont you every learn and become wiser ? i keep teaching you but you keep failing in my class ! [/b]




You claim that Roland will shoot down incoming bombs and munitions. But your friend Wikipedia that you love so much states: "Roland's latest upgraded versions have limited ability to counter incoming low RCS munitions (large-caliber heavyweight rockets)". If the LATEST version of Roland have a poor ability to shoot down incoming munitions, then your Nigerian Roland 2 is even much less effective. So you can keep dreaming to yourself that your Roland will be able to protect itself. Umbani can be rocket assisted, so it is not slow as you claim.




quote the exact words and weblink source that says a faster Roland cannot shoot down modern munitions launched against it, or else you become a comedian. their is no such lie in wikipedia, i studied Roland like a textbook, i drank Roland like water.

Roland shot down 2 British Royal air force high speed and high tech Tornado jets that fly at max speed 2,400km faster than Gripen jet.

Umbani rocket assistance is to increase range to 120km or more, not speed. a bomb will never fly at speed of a missile. quote source of Umbani claim of high speed or else i will call you a F00L in public today



And about our Gripen range. The range is extended much much further simply by adding external drop tanks, which still give space for our Recon Pod as well as missiles. Do you think the our Gripens which flew to Zambia did it in 15 minutes from Limpopo to Lusaka? You are a fool.



dont miss classes when i lecture my south african students. the more fuel you carry on Gripen, the less weapons, simple science, its maximum load is fixed. failure to carry self protection air to air missiles will expose Gripen to ordinary F-7 jets and it has same speed and longer range and higher altitude than Gripen. the F-7 is not the crap you south africans and some ignorant nigerians call it. i just showed you its few areas of superiority to Gripen



So like I say you have been defeated in your own challenge. You know that for a fact. Your only real response is that your Roland SAM will hide away from us. Once you try shoot us down you are finished, provided we stay above 5km off the ground which is not high at all (maybe that is high in the Nigerian air force). You have lost at your own game. Stop giving me excuses about your Naval Simulation reply. Type it again without the pictures




you changed again to 5km distance, it exposes Gripen to Roland SAM 8km missile range 18km radar range.

Gripen attack failed, i just shot down all your wasted Umbani/Paveway bombs in my tactical and technical scientific post above. the general public is reading your post and comparing it to mine, they are not F00LS.

Roland wins



stop deceiving people with lies about data...this is the weblink source for full story of Roland SAM including its combat records and history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_missile

South African Gripen jet can NOT hit Nigerian Roland SAM air defenses. case proved beyond doubt. case closed

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Fighter Pilot: According to my current assessment of Nigerias military, I have finally deduced that Nigeria will never defeat South Africa in war.

thank God you said 'YOU' have deduced, we know your level as a degree holder in military agricultural science

Fighter Pilot: They might have more troops but that will not help them with the kind of obsolete weapons that they have. Nigerias Army is undoubtedly not well equipped to can handle a country as technologically advanced as South Africa. Nigeria will lose the battle before they could even think that they are losing the war. Here under are some of the aspects I have summarised just only in few sentences.

1. South Africa has one of the most advanced Airforce in Sub-Saharan Africa which you cannot Match to that of Nigerias counterpart. FACT!!!

2. In simple sentences, the Nigerian Navy cannot stop the South African Navy. That will only be through the miracle of their Gods that such can happen.

NNS ARADU will use its Otomat anti-ship missiles to sink ALL south african navy warships at range 80km to 180km from a safe position of shallow waters where a submarine cannot dive deep enough to avoid running aground or being targeted NNS Aradu brand new American anti-submarine Atlas EA80 20NM passive anti-submarine sonar and dozens of torpedoes fired 6 at a time simultaneously.

you also need to await the arrival of Nigerian Navy's 4 brand new ultra-modern stealth warships from China/India next year..... FACT !!!

Fighter Pilot: 3. Who by the way said Artillery does not win the war? That person should really be ashamed of himself for ever spitting out such misinformation out of his disgraceful mouth. Artillery is capable of doing the following;
- Demolishing the enermies' military installations, Air defence system, Hangers and fleet of fighters, all at long range distances etc
- it can effectively replace the Airforce by scattering the enemies' well organised battle formations in disarray making it easy for one's forces to launch offensive once the enemies' forces are scattered.
- the Artillery's fire is rather effective than mortars for which the enemy can clearly stay out of its range. It has more consistent ariel attacks which lands second after second.

i am the one who said it here, my name is Augustine in case you never heard. Artillery will NOT win you a war.....nigeria's over 1,000 artillery has not yet defeated boko haram in 4 years.

Fighter Pilot: 4. Lastly, there is no Army in the world which can win the conventional war with a weak airforce. Once the enemies' air defence system and the airforce which can be used to counter-attack and intercept one's airforce are all destroyed, the enemies' armies, irrespective of how large they are, will be severely compromised through heavy airstrikes.

please dont make me repeat old posts of 5 months ago. south african airforce jets will ALL be shot down by nigerian army Roland anti-aircraft missiles and Type 90 ultra modern anti-aircraft guns. we did that combat simulation 5 months ago on this same forum and you were involved.

Roland Vs Gripen was a balanced, even, 50-50 no clear winner battle. both have to avoid each other to survive. South african Gripen jets have NO air to surface missiles....FACT !!!!

you also need to await the arrival of Nigerian Army new ultra-modern Akash anti-aircraft missiles sytems from India.


i am tired of how you south african make me repeat old posts...i am just tired.

maybe i should just post my naval combat, and land invasion simulation ...then maybe kiss this forum goodbye...tired of these dullard south african mofos

[img]http://3.bp..com/_44d3OT-xI3U/SvcUNZho4lI/AAAAAAAABL0/tn0Rd7d11i0/s400/Akash+Chart-2.JPG[/img]

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Mike..ZA:
That would be the case if Nigeria engages SA.

In a conventional warfare counter battery fire will destroy your artillery pieces. Forth 4. All your howitzers remain out ranged by the G7 105mm howitzer.

no army has monopoly of killing the enemy without being killed too. SANDF and seleka both killed each other before south african ran away finally

130 nigerian palmaria and bofors haubit artillery all have about the same 30km range of south african G7 artillery.

stop day dreaming

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BOFORS HAUBIT nigerian army artillery

Mike..ZA:
If you're going to make a military simulation about Nigeria's invasion of South Africa. Include how are your soldiers(more than 5 brigades) going to be transported to our boarders. Including the staging area.

my head is NOT dull like your own

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chris365: but guy, the RPG too much na. That's what flash bang or stun grenades are for.

RPG too much ? well it seems so, but we cannot judge a whole Kenyan army General from our laptops at home, he has better intelligence reports about his battle field.

anyway, Israel has proved to the whole world that the only language a terrorist understands is terror....so give him a dose of his own medicine.

rumours say nigerian army may be sent to help Kenyan army on anti-terrorism operations. big brother nigeria, powerhouse of AFRICA !

south africa is NOT even saying anything about helping kenya....cowards of soweto

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chris365: dude, lemme make it clear to you. Even if your artillery guns are placed 80km away from us, our military satelites will still pick your locations, special forces will do a recce and pin your artillery locations for return and precise hit, we position our artillery and motars, and the rest is history (while you'll just be wastin shells from 70km away since even your binoculars will not see such a distance)

he is obsessed and possessed by a few 46 units of south african 70km range G6 artillery that could NOT win the war against inexperienced army of Cuba in Angola bush war.

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Mike..ZA:
Your guns will have to close in to return fire. Your artillery pieces will evaporate under the fire of the G5,G6,Bateleur and AMLAGC(G7) stationed more than 30km away.

...because your tiny brain is thinking that 150,000 nigerian army with 5,000 armoured vehicles/off road terrain vehicles will all foolishly line up in a straight line in front of south african G6 artillery like a line of ants walking back into their ground hole

that nigerian army will be in formations of about 200 different battalions moving against south africa in many different directions out-flanking your tiny manpower shortage crippled army from north , south, east and west until we en-circle, surround, envelope and finally swallow you up like a swarm of heavily armed honey bees.

go ask Egypt how Israel surrounded and cut off a whole 3rd army of Egypt

go ask America and the whole United Nations armies why they all ran away from China's army trying to encircle them in Korean war

go ask South Africa why your army rushed to peace negotiation table when Cuba almost encircled your useless army at Cuito, why did your G6 artillery 70km unnecessary range not save your useless SADF army from the hands of 40,000 inexperienced youth/conscript Cuban soldiers....nigeria has 150,000 soldiers and 10 times better war experience than tiny Cuba.

nigerian 50 palmaria mobile artillery needs only about 40 minutes drive in and close the range gap completely.

what even makes you think armies of the world are always 70km magical range distant away from each other in a real war ?

were Seleka rebels 70km away from south african army when they dfeated your army in CAR 6 months ago ? fool

no army can see the enemy they want to shell from 70km distance away, but nigerian space spy satellites, spy balloons, and ATR-42 Surveyor surface search aircraft will see ALL south african artillery forces over 100 km away and out-maneuver you completely by sending our infantry and motorized battalions to attack you from the flanks by surprise.

south african army is blind as a bat when they fight....no satellite, no balloon, no ATR-42 Surveyor

dont try use drones because nigerian army Roland SAM, Shilka radar AAA, ans Type 90 AAA in our anti-aircraft battalions will shoot down and waste ALL south african drones in a few minutes.

anyway can you please stop wasting our time on this thread by repeating the same old s.tupid comments and making others have to repeat old replies ? or is your fathers' second wife 'doing you remote brain control'

please shut up mr policeman, go fight armed robbers robbing and r.aping soweto women...fire still burns in soweto even after apartheid

stop wasting our time with silly posts if you are not having m.ental p.roblems upstairs

please do us a favour, stop making us repeat posts. thanks

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