₦airaland Forum

Patchesagain:
1. Tell that to the Paramount group who just sold one to Nigeria

2. Their ATGMs are not as advanced as ours, so yes, BIG DEAL

3. Denel makes them, Denel sells them therefore we sold them to Brazil. Deal with it

4. HMD's were sold to France.

5. Thats why he said "possibly"

6. Yes, we sold the Umbani to South Korea

Weird that it is "not South African" yet its all designed and sold in South Africa and listed under South African exports on SIPRI

No single citation.....into the garbage bin it goes.....you posted rubbish
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Msauza:
Denel wins a major contract in the middle East.


http://m.engineeringnews.co.za/article/denel-wins-major-vehicle-contract-from-middle-east-2015-11-09

SA defence industry is mostly MRAP business. Nothing special.

jln115:
Yes obviously I do, and you clearly don't.

You failed to interpret your own countrys business law

jln115:
Yes you can, because the documents on the spy cables are authentic

You will score a D or E in that academic project. Olodo

jln115:
the source is spy cables retaaard, that Al Jazeera somehow got a hold off.

Anonymous and nameless spy cables is NO reliable source, can you quote it as reference or bibliography is an academic project? Fool.

jln115:
For fvck sake!!! where does our law state that foreign companies must by law sell the majority of their shares, do you understand the question?

Dullard do you understand the law?

jln115:
We invented the HMD, and intagrated it on the Mirage, France used the HMD on their Mirages after successful testing on the SAAF fleet.

Citation needed that you sold HMD to France

jln115:
Were does it state that foreign countries must under law sell the majority of their stake? Please mate....show me!

Learn to read without having everything quoted for you....dullard whitey !

No BEE compliance means death to the company business :

" In order to achieve the highest BEE status rating (level one out of a possible eight levels), a
business entity must score more than 100 points. Entities scoring lower than 40 points will
be judged non-BEE compliant.

However, under the new system, both small and micro enterprises can
qualify for ‘enhanced recognition’, whereby if they are 100% black owned or at least 51%
black owned, they are automatically given Level One or Level Two BEE status respectively.

Non-compliance will not result in any criminal sanction but will mean that government
support will not be forthcoming. And a knock-on effect is created in business, since
compliance requires entering into business relationships (such as supply contracts) with
parties who are in turn compliant.

A review of the BEE Act has also been initiated and an amendment bill proposed which will
tighten the law to address challenges such as ‘fronting’, where companies manipulate or
misrepresent their BEE status to win contracts. "

http://www.uhy.com/wp-content/uploads/Doing-Business-in-South-Africa.pdf

This is why European defence companies open branches in South Africa and sell majority shares to you then you now turn around to claim the weapons they produce are proudly South African products.....its a big lie, you guys azz is now exposed, you have been deceiving us on this forum for the past 5 years !
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jln115:
Everything you want is on Al jazeeras website.

Everything on that website is speculation with no names of sources, nothing official....tales by moonlight.

jln115:
1. Iran can build their own ATGM why then did they buy them from us? Same goes with regards to Egypt

Iran has NO South African weapon. How did you sell ATGM to them under UN arms embargo. Liar !

jln115:
It's from official documents agubugu!!

Show us the official sources or documents.....like I just showed you a pdf file.

jln115:
Read my fvcking post again retaaard!! I ask you again were in our law does it state that foreign companies have to sell the majority of their shares.

Mumu, read the pdf file, no majority shares means no government patronage or contracts, their business will collapse for lack of patronage.

http://www.uhy.com/wp-content/uploads/Doing-Business-in-South-Africa.pdf

jln115:
Don't compare your defence industry to ours....

....sure I wont`t....yours is owned by Europeans....ours is independent

jln115:
Where in our fvcking law does it state that foreign companies must sell majority of their stake to South Africans? Please show me!!!

MULTINATIONALS

The codes of good practice allow foreign multinational companies doing business in South Africa some flexibility in how they structure their empowerment deals. In particular, the codes acknowledge that there may be multinationals whose global practices prevent them
from complying with the ownership element of Black Economic Empowerment (BEE) through the traditional sale of shares to black South Africans.

In such cases, the codes allow for contributions in lieu of equity sales. These contributions, known as ‘equity equivalent’ contributions, count towards the ownership element ofnBBBEE and can allow companies to place extra effort on areas such as skills development, training, preferential procurement and social responsibility. The value of these contributions may be measured against 25% of the value of a multinational's South African operations, or against 4% of the total revenue from South African operations annually over the period of continued measurement.

Foreign multinationals can submit proposals for Equity Equivalent Programmes to the Department of Trade and Industry for approval by the Minister of Trade and Industry.

CONCLUSION

It is fundamental to doing business in South Africa that potential investors become familiar with and meet their obligations in terms of BEE laws and regulations.

http://www.uhy.com/wp-content/uploads/Doing-Business-in-South-Africa.pdf

You force European companies to sell shares to South Africans and add your name to their own. The company has a South African look outwardly but inwardly it is European 100%.

90% of South African defence industry is owned by Europeans. Nigerian defence industry is NOT a colony like yours. We own our stuff.
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jln115:
Yes Iran whent to Russia and Korea after they begged us for help and we said NO.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/02/spy-cables-south-africa-spies-iran-operations-guardian-ssa-tehran-undercover-carpet--150219184023503.html

It`s NOT official....it`s speculation from so called spies that have no name and no identity.

Your source is garbage.

jln115:
MRAPs to the USA,India to name just two
AAMs to Brazil
SAMs to Algeria,Finland,Brazil(possibility)
Artillery pieces to Omen,UAE,Iran, Qatar,Malaysia
Smart bombs to unnamed country, South Korea(possibility)
Anti Tank missiles to Egypt, Algeria,Malaysia
HMDs to France,Sweden
Patrol vessels to Nigeria

We rank 18th in the world when it comes to weapon exports...were does Nigeria rank?

Nigeria like Iran and Egypt, uses most of her defence products locally, why export when we do not have enough for huge local needs.

Nigerian navy has NO South African patrol boat.

You sold ATGMs, Iran makes them, even Sudan makes them. No big deal.

You did NOT sell AAM to Brazil, A-Darter is a joint project and carries Brazilian logo on it. Brazil gave you the technology. You glory thief.

You sold NOTHING to France

You sold ONLY MRAP to Sweden

You sold no SAM to Brazil

You sold NOTHING to South Korea.

I confirmed ALL South African arms exports on SIPRI....

You sell mostly MRAPs. Other weapon sales are few numbers or low value....you are nothing special.

90% of your South African defence industry is NOT yours, they are European companies opening branches in South Africa. You fvcking thief !
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jln115:
If Iran were a 100 years ahead of us, why did beg us to help them with their nuclear missile program?

Iran's nuclear technology is NOT from South Africa, they got it from Russia and North Korea.

Iran is 100 years years ahead of South Africa in defence industry, they built 3,000 km range missiles, jet fighters, submarines.....

http://www.rohama.org/en/news/8153/irans-home-made-aircraft-and-jet-fighters-in-irans-air-force

South Africa is far behind several 3rd world countries in defence industry, you only do well in MRAPs majorly, and you export a lot, other countries use their products locally to feed their large military needs, not like South Africa that has only 46 units of it`s own artillery and 12 units of it`s own helicopter gunship.

http://www.rohama.org/en/news/8153/irans-home-made-aircraft-and-jet-fighters-in-irans-air-force

Iran builds jet fighters !

jln115:
1. You don't know what a Data link is, and secondly neither Algeria or Egypt have a tactical data link.

2. Why if the umkhonto is so sh1t, are why are they using them on their flagship vessels?

3. Thales South Africa Pty Ltd is a South African company founded in South Africa, by South Africans and is run by South Africans, just how BAE land systems was/is a South African company. And when did SAAB refuse that we integrate the al tariq on the Gripen? It's our weapon and our fighters, we can do what ever the Bleep we like.

4. What's your point? Never did I say SAAB was a South African company? All I pointed out was that South African technicians maintain our fighter fleet....and I even mentioned that we imort all our spares from Europe... So why are you arguing something that I'm agreeing with you about?

5.Rheinmetall is co owned by Rheinmetall Germany and Denel dipshitt. And secondly I never said BAE was South African.

Lastly don't compare your defence industry with ours.... That's like comparing the Nigerian cricket team with the Proteas

1. Egypt and Algeria do not talk about their communication systems, nobody know if they have tactical datalinks, you cannot prove they do not have, same way I cannot prove they have it.

2. Algeria believes in buying weapons from north, east, west, south, they buy from over 10 different countries, it's their national defence policy to diversify sources of arms procurement. Besides, they feel the umkhonto is already integrated on Meko 200 used by SAN, so it makes easy sense to buy same. However the Algerians have 40 km Russian SAM on their Tigre frigates, they have missiles superior to Umkhnoto. Flagship does not matter, it's a ceremonial jargon. Also, they might not find Russian missile easy to install on a German Meko frigate, it will need Russian and German military engineers working together and that may be hard to achieve since the two white nations are enemies, then Umkhonto becomes easy option.

3. Thales is a French company you thief ! The logo is from France, you cannot use it as a South African original or else you will be in violation of international patent rights and end up in world court for stealing. Thales South Africa is merely a branch of Thales France, ALL the Thales products made in South African defence industry are imported French technology that you claim for yourselves you glory thief !

90% of South African defence industry is owned by Europe, they own you !

See all the logos are the same exactly, Thales South Africa, Thales United Kingdom, Thales France

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/careers/south-africa

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/united-kingdom

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en

France owns Thales defence industry South Africa . PROVED !

4. Sweden owns SAAB 100%

5. Rheinmetall is German, they own South African Rheinmetall, you cannot use a PATENTED name without affiliation with the parent company, Germany owns Rheinmetall defence company South Africa, they can pull the plugs on you and South African defence industry drops dead. All the Rheinmetall defecne products made in South Africa are imported materials, parts, and technology from Germany, they own you.

Rheinmetall has branches ALL OVER THE WORLD....

http://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/en/rheinmetall_defence/company/locations_worldwide/index.php

Rheinmetall America

http://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/en/rheinmetall_defence/company/divisions_and_subsidiaries/american_rheinmetall_munitions/index.php

Rheinmetall Canada

http://www.rheinmetall.ca/en/rheinmetall_canada/index.php
[size=13pt]
90% of South African defence industry is owned and fed fat by Europe.....Nigeria owns her own defence industry.....we are not a colony like South Africa [/size]
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Patchesagain:
[size=13pt]Yet again, augubug is trying to compensate for Nigerian inferiority.... [/size]

[size=13pt]Nigerian defence industry is NOT inferior.[/size]

We make world class quality products that UN is buying and presidents and ambassadors of countries from your own region are inspecting for purchase prospects. Point is we make different things, there are many Nigerian products that South Africa does not produce, wheeled bomb disposal robots, tracked bomb disposal robots, tactical military armoured vehicles, jet fighter rocket pods, jet fighter folding fin rockets, armoured patrol vessels, man portable drones....we make different things, each country has it's own priority.

Show me how Nigeria is inferior.....UN calls you a liar !
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jln115:
Israel have a much more powerful Gunship fleet, so combine that with their Tank fleet.

Iranian SAMs will shoot down all Israeli Apache gunship helicopters in one day.

jln115:
bae land systems is now called denel land systems after they acquired the majority stake in bae land systems in 2014 anyway that's all from my said I'm not going to involve myself further in your guys debat!!

You merely paid cash to buy the shares because your ANC law forces foreign companies to sell majority shares to South Africans.

BAE technology remains imported from Britain, you import British technology, call the company any name you like, DENEL or whatever, it is still British technology being imported by you, British engineering brains doing the job while you claim the glory for South Africa, thief !

Patchesagain:
Israel claims that of the purported 3,500 rockets fired from Gaza during its latest military operation, 90 percent of those that would have hit population centres were neutralised by the Iron Dome system
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/08/israel-iron-dome-gaza-rockets-201481712494436388.html

Iron Dome

Failing

Toppest of LOL's

Also, you are ignoring SPYDER and Arrow and David's Sling which also make up their air defence system

You see, the Jews have an INTEGRATED air defense system composed of multiple layers of defenses.

Any missile headed towards Isreal has to defeat 4 layers of air-defence missiles (excluding fighters) before it hits the ground.

Hamas or Hezbollar home made rockets are unguided and crap, they have no electronic countermeasures to challenge intercepting missiles.

Iran builds sophisticated missiles and likely the biggest missile producer in the 3rd world....100 years ahead of South Africa
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Patchesagain:
Consult SIPRI

We are amongst the Top 20 in the world. We are not ahead of ONLY lowly Uzbekistan... WE ARE AHEAD OF EVERY SINGLE OTHER COUNTRY ON EARTH

Clown

Nope, that list makes you 18th ranked exporters out of 20, you are almost bottom of the table

The ranking is NOT for weapons manufacturing, it is for export only, and many of the South African exports on SIPRI are sales of weapons you imported from Europe, Alouette helicopters from France resold to Zimbabwe, Cheetah jets are France's rebuilt Mirage jets resold to Ecuador, Mirage F1Z from France resold to Gabon, Impala jets are Italian jets resold to other countries in large numbers, all those are among the export sales used to rank South Africa 18th, yet those weapons are imported by you originally made in Europe....I found out this records on SIPRI database.....most of South African made exports are MRAPs, you are merely a big time MRAP exporter, all other weapons are low value transactions including cheap missiles.

Weapons manufacturing, Egypt is the biggest in Africa, I proved it with citations, Egypt built jet fighter engines, tens of thousands tactical missiles, dozens of ballistic missiles and a thousand modern tanks, and many thousands of APC/IFV.

Iran locally manufactures more missiles and drones than South Africa, Iran makes dozens of types of main battle tanks, IFV/APC, anti-tank missiles, anti-aircraft missiles, anti-ship missiles, long range ballistic missiles, missile armed drones, stealth drones, warships, light jet fighter aircraft....South Africa is far far behind Iran which is not listed on the top 20 table.

Stop deceiving yourselves ! IRAN HAS BUILT MANY SUBMARINES !

gottfried21:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MccWQcRqpM4
AMANI Africa II
It's three hours long
Enjoy

Thanks for this video sir.

Poor training from the African forces, real poor weak training, no stuff at all.....looks more like an army ceremonial parade !

South Africa should have organized something better, most armies like Uganda, Kenya, Algeria, Nigeria and Angola that are used to fighting real wars will gain nothing from this kind of shows, real war is 100 time tougher than the child's play done at AMANI Africa II.

jln115:
1. SAAB have branches in South Africa, South African technicians maintain our fleet as I said before, secondly the al tariq will be intagrated onto the Gripen as well

2. Same applies to Algeria.

3. Uhm they are invading us remeber? And by sea.

With what SAM system will Algeria shoot us down? They are invading us by sea according to you.

It doesn't matter if we haven't ordered them, its War time, thus we will be getting an endless supply of mokopa.

Thales South Africa is a totally different company to the one in France you ignorent fvck

4.. If you read my original post you would know that the time frame of this fictitious war is somewhere around 2020 thus most of our Badgers have been delivered by then. Secondly our Rates are of such great design a few minor upgrades will easily see them serve another 20-30 years.

95% of the Olifant is made in South Africa and yes we do manufacture the tracks in SA, how do you think we replaced them during the border war?

Secondly even if they land their hundreds of t90 how are they going to protect them against our Rooivalk and Hawk with 0 Air support?

Lastly you obviously have 0 idea of what a Data link does, thus no need for me to waste my time trying to explain theadvantages of such a system.

Datalink is no weapon and it won't win you a war, the enemy too has its own communication system. Then you never know if Algeria and Egypt have tactical data link, not every country makes noise about it's military communication capacity on internet.

Algerian navy has SAMs superior to Umkhonto, they have on Tigre frigates a different missile from Russia with 40 km range BVR ! All SAAF jets will be deleted from the sky.

SAAB opened a branch factory in South Africa, your ANC law forces them to give majority shares to incompetent Zulu dummy directors who just sit idle on the board collecting huge salaries. SAAB is exporting technology to it's branch, the stuff you have there is shipped to you from Sweden, you do NOT own SAAB corporation, it is a Swedish company that can pull the plugs and render your Gripen jets powerless anytime.

SAAB has REFUSED to allow Umbani bomb on Gripen you dummy.

Thales South Africa is same as Thales of France, they own you ! See the company logo it's the same. Thales exports tech stuff to it's Southie branch and runs the factory, no Zulu brain can ever build a radar. Thales is a French company and they can dump you if they wish to cripple your defence industry.

You guys actually do NOT own 90% of your so called local defence industry, BAE is also British company with branch in South Africa, Rheinmetall is a German company with branch in South Africa just like Toyota and Ford motors.

You South Africans own less than 10% of the technology you claim to have, it's all imported from Europe and they can paralyze South Africa is they wish.....foreigners own your defence industry unlike Nigeria where Nigerian army engineering corps owns Igirigi APC, Badeh Aerospace owns Gulma drone, Proforce owns Leapard LAV, Nigerian air force AFIT college owns Amebo drone, Ichoku drone, bomb disposal robot wheeled and tracked versions, and Farawa light aircraft, DICON owns our infantry weapons and equipment products, we own ourselves in Nigerian defence industry, we do NOT depend on Europe to open branches and build weapons in Naija.

Nigerian defense industry is independent, South African defence industry is 90% colonized by Europe today 2015....SA is not free yet o ! Mandela only got Zulus/Bantus the political offices....the rest of South Africa is still owned by Europe.

jln115:
We have one of the largest and most advanced defence industries in the world, and export our products to world powers.

South Africa sells what weapons to world powers? When? How?

You sold about 2,000 MRAPs to USA, then USA builds it's own better MRAP superior to yours and manufactured 25,000 units. So what is the big deal selling MRAPs, is that a ballistic missile? Namibia builds MRAP and Nigeria too is developing an MRAP with Proforce.

Selling Umkhonto to Finland? Finland is NOT a world power, and they bought a few of your missile for the sake of returning favour in your business deal since you are buying hundreds of Badger IFV engine and chassis from them.

Southies did not sell any offensive weapon to any world power anywhere you nitwit !

Your defense industry is NOT one of the largest in the world, you build jet fighters and warships? Your SA export ranking is almost bottom table on the top 20 in the world, you are only ahead of lowly Uzbekistan or so.

lionel4power:
a terrorist group that fights a conventional war with tanks...common give credits to who its due..

Boko Haram and ISIS have ex-military men from national armies, now turned mercenaries, leading in their command cadre.

jln115:
They haven't received any meko frigates or Tiger corvettes and only recieved one C28A corvette, thus far.

But hey lets say for argument sake they've received all their surfuces combatants and subs and we received our combatants under project Biro.
And for some reason Algeria decides to invade us by sea as you mentioned above.

Now firstly the South African coast has some of the roughest waters in the world, thus not very conducive to an amphibious invasion.

Secondly the currents in our Waters make it prime hunting ground for diesel Subs, just ask the Nato fleet that was sunk by a single SAN sub in 2007 during an exercise. Even with ASW helicopters it would be near impossible to sink one of our Subs in our Waters.

Thirdly we have Link ZA( tactical data link) something Algeria can only dream of!! Thus all our Navy,Air force and Army assets would instantly know exactly were the Algerian fleet is if even only one of our Radar/Aircraft/Satellite/Ships or even a soldier on a dinki boat spots their fleet, we would also have the advantage of knowing exactly were every single of our assets are at all time, right down to a single soldier. We would know precisely when and were to attack their fleet, we would always be one step ahead of the enemy at all times.

Forthly The Algerian fleet would be without any air support, thus easy targets for our Hawks armed with glide bombs.

Lastly I can't exaggerated enough of how much of an advantage it is to poses something like a tatical data link, its a massive massive force multiplier.

After Algeria beats yöu blue-black, your data link will be transmitting urgent messages of surrender to all SANDF units.

All Algerian navy orders are fully paid for and lost delivery is 2015-2016, most of the shipbuilding is almost complete.

SAN submarine did not sink any NATO ship, in which war? A game is not real war, if it's war and your sub fires torpedo, NATO ships will fire anti-torpedo decoys and your sub will be attacked with ship and helicopter launched torpedoes, then you will know that a game is not a real war.

Guided bombs are useless against Algerian navy warship anti-missile decoys and CIWS defended.

Gripen and Hawk jets will be shot down by Algerian navy BVR SAM systems. SAAF will be wasted in 10 minutes.

South African coastline was easy enough a terrain for British and Dutch ancient ships to land men and invade hundreds of years ago.

Algeria will wreck SA

jln115:
1. SAAB South Africa and BAE South Africa maintain our fighter fleet. Some spares although have to be imported I admit. Our fighters are also armed with locally developed weapon systems, and a lot of the combat suite comprises of South African systems, including the HMD and HMI.

2. Our Navy Equipment have always been imported from other countries, even in the SADF days. Also remember that a lot of the cobat suite of our Valours are of South African design, our Valours are also armed with a South African made SAM system. Our Subs use a South African made periscope, and a lot of the cobat suite comprises of South African made products.

3. ALL spares for our Oryx are made in South Africa!!! thus all spares for our Rooivalk are also manufactured in South Africa. And the avionics were produced by Thales South Africa. The Rooivalk is also armed with the locally developed mokopa.

4. 90% of our army consist of locally made weapon systems from Tanks,IFVs,MRAPs to small armed and communication systems.

We have one of the largest and most advanced defence industries in the world, and export our products to world powers.

Lies lies lies !!!

1. There is no company named SAAB South Africa! Sweden is maintains your Gripens for you and the only weapon you make for Gripen is A-Darter, the Gripen guided bombs are all imported from America. Sweden can ground your entire Gripen fleet if they get angry with you anytime.

2. Your Valour frigates and submarines are totally powerless and useless without imported Exocet missiles and AST torpedoes from Europe.

3. Your Oryx helicopter is useless against Algeria, even Boko Haram will shoot down an Oryx with ZSU-23 anti-aircraft.

Rooivalk has no Mokopa missile, you have NOT ordered them so you don't have them. Btwn, Rooivalk helicopters will be eaten up by Algerian SAM.

Thales is a French owned company with branch in South Africa, you don't own France or do you?

4. Your SANDF has only 5 units of Badger IFV experimental units ALL IMPORTED FROM FINLAND, no Badger production factory exists in South Africa.

Ratel IFV is obsolete and Algerian 8 km range ATGM will eat up all your IFVs in few days. Algeria has thousands of ATGM missiles.

You don't manufcafure tanks you fraud, Olifant tank is just an upgrade of Centurion tanks imported from Britain. RSA has no steel track manufacturing plant for tanks. Btwn, Algeria has hundreds of T-90 tanks, they will wipe out all your tanks.

MRAP is useless against even ordinary RPG or even a simple Browning machine gun, Boko Haram can defeat your MRAP.

Making communication equipments means what? Is it a weapon? Even Togo has communication equipment and Namibia manufactures her own army communication hardware.

Thanks for posting a list of useless weapons you produce.

South Africa is a major weapons importer.

PROVED.

jln115:
Dude you said we have more technologically advanced weapon systems not me!!!

Quote me, quote where I said that.

You bloödy liar!

Patchesagain:
Yes, if you consider CAPACITY FOR GROWTH

You fvcking retard.

You cannot make hypothetical statements and then refer to factual situations to prove the hypothetical.

And what does this have to do with Egypt v Isreal?

Proves that defence industry wil not make Israel defeat Egypt, the most important Israeli weapons are imported from America....F-16 jet, F-15 jet, Apache helicopter, Patriot SAM, Artillery guns and lots more.

War will be won based on firepower, both countries have enough in stock to wage a long war and end up in stalemate.

snydergp1st:
First answer me why has this become a SA vs Egypt/Algeria debate.

Our naval training is up to Nato standards and we exercise with them. Our training platforms and exercises are better then any sub saharan nation and that's a fact.

I'm a member of the SAAF, though we currently have funding gabs to maintain our current and future platforms our training is more then adequate to maintain a level of readiness.

SAN during training crashed your ships and you sank your own Frigate SAS Kruger during training......world record of self destruction

SAN sailed a brand new submarine into sea bottom and wrecked it in the mud

SANDF anti-aircraft guns during training was turned on your own soldiers and your incompetent gunners kïlled themselves

SANDF local training is garbage.

More truth just came out few months ago and your government is now sending SAAF men to train in Cuba, imagine tiny island of Cuba teaching huge fat South Africa how to fly military aircraft
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