₦airaland Forum

patches689:
Because that is what navies operate. That is what defines a navy -ready for maritime war.

What will you do if a submarine threat arrives tomorrow?

Withdraw ships to sea port and install anti-submarine nets. Reactivate ASW helicopters or simply wait for the enemy submarine to run out of fuel and return home empty handed, or submarine will drive on our land? We can allow the submarine to run low on electric power and snorkel, ATR-42 or drones will detect it and Alpha jets will rocket it into pieces.

What will you do if a piracy threat arrives South Africa tomorrow? You have a 3,200 km long u-shaped coast and no stealth IPV, MPV, OPV
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mzilakazi:
Hope you will only be watching our frigates above from the sky with little or nothing to do when they came blazing down to your shores to come and destroy everything Nigerian Navy.
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Any country that attempts to land troops on Nigerian shores will be buried at sea, Nigeria has the largest artillery force in Africa after Egypt
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iblawi:
atr 42 for your subs.

ATR-42 has no anti-submarine equipment

patches689:
Not knowing South Africans are the master's of COIN warfare

That is why you hired us to train your men

Eben Barlow is NOT in your army anymore, he is a private man.....and also your enemy we can use against your ANC government that hates him

South Africa is unable to use COIN 'mastery' to save it's self from local Rhino poachers at home

SA is a Doctor that cannot cure himself with his own medicine

jln115:
Uhm difference is we can project a force of 3000(inc Armour , Artillery , infantry) and sustain such a force until a larger force arrives, Nigeria can not, we also have by FAR the best C4I2R in Africa meaning we utilize our forces much much more effectively than any other African country. Go do some research on Link ZA, Chaka C2 system, IMPI Blue Force Tracking Device ect ect

Lastly we have the most modern defence force in Africa, which speaks for its self.

Algeria has the most modern defence force in Africa, undisputed champions.

3,000 force from South Africa cannot survive one day against Nigerian army. You will be surrounded, captured and used for idol shrine sacrifice.

DictatorZAR:
Ever heard of the Kondor E military sat SA has.

None of your sats are military grade. I also guess you never heard of data link ZA something Nigeria only dreams of. For your ATR I let's what it will do when it is on range of Umkhonto SAM


go do your research bro

SA has only one satellite, and it's NOT military satellite. SIPRI reports it as a mere observation satellite. It's the type used by Russian ministry of defence which is a civilian agency not an army.

One satellite alone is all you have, you go blind when it orbits away from Africa.

Three satellites Nigeria has and many more on order, we can view the whole world from different orbit positions.

ATR-42 has 407 km range radar spying from so far away, so how will your 15 km range Umkhonto missile sh.oot it down?

mzilakazi:
Yes that machine is only good for pirates and not even BH. We are still waiting for it to #BringBackOurGirls

Those 300 girls do NOT exist. Show me a photo of 300 girls in captivity....300 girls...

ssaengine:
For many weeks/months/years did Boko Haram drive around in MARKED tanks and armoured vehicles? What took Nigeria so long to atleast ensure that such heavy vehicles are destroyed? You were still waiting for new equipment to arrive from Russia? Any 2nd rate army must have the immediate capability to destroy heavy armour even within 24 hour notice....not wait for equipment to arrive from overseas.

The BH ploys on motorbikes came later on.

Yes Nigerian army reduced Boko Haram from T-55 tanks to mere motor-bike riders. We crushed their armoured vehicle fleet out of existence.

How many years has America and Britain spent fighting Taliban in Afghanistan with no victory? 13 years now, and USA-UK have 100 times better weapons and technology than Nigeria. Yet we AK-47 and Toyota Hilux Nigerian troops have done better than them with their F-16, F-18, A-10, M1A1, Predator, Bradley, TOW, Javelin, Apache, Tornado, Maverick, LITENING, Paveway, Sentinel, etc
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mzilakazi:
Is that man not a rebel? He looks like a real rebel.

He looks better than your Angolan trained South African army chief of staff who is actually a freedom fighter ex-rebel heading a conventional army in 2015, an AK-47 brained army General is leading your SANDF

mzilakazi:
The late grandfather Arandu is resting in his perfect peace. Please, just allow him to rest in peace.

You are Afraid of NNS Aradu's refit 2015. Better armed than Valour frigates.

DictatorZAR:
This is SA made and in use in 3 navies worldwide.
Please come back when you produce this

Algeria and Morocco don not produce Umkhonto missile, but their military is far more powerful than yours. Don't even count Nigeria, Ethiopia, etc

patches689:
Are you being serious?

Ok, lets break it down

- Navy with no air arm

4 Lynx helicopters, operational and being used on the frigates constantly

Unlike Nigeria - who have no operational maritime helo's

So, That applies to you and not us

- Navy with no BVR

Valour Class can be fitted as needed. Uhmkonto-E has a range of 60km.

Your navy has no operational "BVR" capable vessels

So, that applies to you and not us

- Naval frigate with littel capacity

Are you being serious?

I dont even know how to respond to this.

I guess, I will start by pointing out that you have no operational frigates

So, that applies to you and not us

- Navy with no OPVs

Well, we have the Warrior Class - which is an OPV.

We also have 4 frigates, 3 subs and a plethora of other vessels that fulfill that function.

We never said we were the best, what we said was that we are better than you.

Your Super Lynx ASW helicopters belong to your air force and they are NOT constantly used by your navy frigates, in fact check 90% of the available Valour frigate photos and notice they are with NO helicopters, because the Lynx is based at the airport, not naval base !

Umkhonto ER missile with BVR 60 km range does not exist anywhere, your frigates max missile range remains 15 km ONLY.

You keep talking about buying new missiles and ships, Nigeria too can buy same weapons, or you think only you have buying ideas ?

Warrior class boats are proved to be IPV or at best MPV by your own defenceweb report, it cannot sail as OPV deep sea, it will sink in heavy waves, your sailors are already being described as diving a boat like a submarine under high sea waves and drinking salt water to vomit later.

We are not saying Nigeria is the best, but you are not better than us beacuse we have lots of equipment you don't have, same way you too have equipment we don't have. Can South Africa put any ATR-42 Surveyor equivalent to sea operations today ? Get it?
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jln115:
1. Why do we need an Air arm when we have 22 squadron fulfilling the same role?
2. We never intended to fit our Valours with BVR missiles, as it was seen as to offensive, but that said if the need arises will just fit the marlin missile. FYI the NN also has 0 BVR capability!
3. Guessing the Charles De Gaulle class, La Fayette class and F1000 Air-Defence class, also have little capability as they use the same combat suit as our Valours.
4. Our Warrior class fulfil our OPV role, P.S we are receiving 3 OPVs((90m+) and 3 IPVs(60m) in the coming 2-3 years.

1. Why does Nigeria need active ASW helicopters and submarines when the current threat is sea piracy alone?

2 and 4. Just as you say South Africa can buy new naval weapons, missiles, and ships, then Nigeria too can buy new frigates with missiles, submarines, and anti-submarine helicopters.....or you think only you have monopoly of buying new weapons?
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ssaengine:
Marlin unguided flight tests to start late this year or earlier next year. Project funded by Denel and the South African Air Force. To give the SAAF a BVR capability of 100km. The relative quick speed of this project is due to certain sub-components coming off other missile projects such as Umkhonto and A-Darter.

Again cements South Africa's stance of prefering to develop projects which they deemed strategic in-house (or with a single trusted partner), rather than having to rely on foreign sources.

....but your Gripen jet itself is a foreign imported product.....or you built the jet fighter ?

Marlin missile is still in dream stage until it enters service in 2020.

If you did not buy Gripen jet from Europe, how will you launch your missile?
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patches689:
As apposed to your ZERO frigates with ZERO sbmarine warfare capabilities?

And your ZERO frigates withe ZERO conventional warfare abilities?

As apposed to your ZERO submarines?

As apposed to your ZERO operational maritime helicopters?

Cheap rust coast guard of ancient vessels - some as old as independent Nigeria - pirates dont fear it, they sail towards it

Two brand new stealth OPVs make Nigerian navy the best patrol force in Africa, makes project biro look like a scam made in South Africa

Nigerian navy owns 3 torpedo armed anti-submarine maritime helicopters in storage. South African navy has ZERO, that's why your Lynx hardly ever appear on the Valour frigates, the helicopters belong to the air force and are all land based.

We are both in similar state of repair and refit with ships, your frigates are just coming out of refit, our Aradu is starting refit too. BTWN, our NNS Aradu is fully armed with anti-submarine torpedoes, BVR missiles, and longer range heavy guns.....Aradu firepower will sink all your four frigates in 10 minutes....wait till we complete refit, it's been announced we are doing it locally in Nigerian shipyards that have been upgraded to build modern stealth ships.

Last time I checked, the whole South African navy has ZERO anti-submarine warfare capability....it's only fools like 50 million Southie goons that will spend $1.2 billion on 4 frigates and forgot to buy torpedoes for their billion dollar warships....foools
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patches689:
South Africa has moved beyond blogs

Even America is growing stronger with more and more corporate blogs, no country in this modern internet world has moved beyond blogs you fool

ssaengine:
It means you didnt even check. It means you are just here for attention, and not an honest debate. Denel is required by law to release its financial results. Showing revenue, turnover, profits etc for all their business units. PDF's are free to download on its website.

Post it and show profit from MRAP Vs profit from missiles sales
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ssaengine:
Frigate and strike craft out yesterday...pic belonging to Doug

$300 million Mandela Frigate with ZERO anti-submarine warfare capabilities.

Strike craft patrol boat with ZERO stealth and OPV capability.

Expensive overhyped navy.

patches689:
Ask the 17 nations who operate them

You prove your claim with sources and data.

Prove 17 countries use DENEL periscope.

Prove how many periscopes you sold compared to MRAPs.

That will show us how much money you make from periscopes by selling just a couple of them....as if it's diamond

patches689:
"We are sh1t, but its ok because we are 100% black"

Just shut up

Nigeria is not shït, its just lacking European support that South Africa had for 300 years uninterrupted white men's rule that gqve them direct transfer of technology from Europe.

South African blacks have ZERO technological contribution to South Africa's current advancement, your black dull-heads cannot even run a spaza shop, you need Somali immigrants to help you with entrepreneurship
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ssaengine:
My second last paragraph tells you to read Denel's financial report. Just google it on the net and read. My appetite for games is very limited. Like i told Henry...if you want to play games then have fun.

If you believe that selling 2000 rifles, has a higher profit margin over selling 100 missiles (given the higher cost of R & D and overheads in missile manufacture) then let this be the last few seconds i waste on you.

There is no place where DENEL publishes what you say I should google, why don't you post the data yourself to back your wild claims?

Rifles and MRAP is what I said, one single MRAP costs more than twenty Ingwe missiles, yes MRAP sales is DENELs biggest profit maker.

ssaengine:
I'll give you just 1 chance to reply like a gentleman. If you start making things up out of desperation, and start pulling figures without sources i will stop. There are plenty other people for you to argue with here.

This is what you said....

"DENEL's biggest profit source is not anything high end equipment. Most of DENEL profits come from tens of thousands of rifles and bullets, then MRAP"


This link posted just yesterday on Defenceweb shows that Denel Land Systems, which makes rifles and MRAP's contributes 28% to total Denel revenue....

http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-40248/

[b]"Denel Land Systems' (DLS) billing as a consolidated, project-based, systems designer and integrator of combat turrets, artillery and infantry systems, small arms and armoured vehicles is upheld by a recent maintenance, repair and overhaul contract for 1,900 police assault rifles and the sale of 1,000 SS-77 machine guns

These, along with other DLS work including the new infantry fighting vehicle for the SA Army, saw the Lyttelton, Centurion headquartered business division contribute 28% of Denel's revenue in the 2014/15 financial year. DLS has, according to the latest Denel annual report, for the 2014/15 financial year, completed maintenance, repair and overhaul of 1,500 SA Police Service R5 assault rifles with 400 still awaiting refurbishment in the year under review.

Other work DLS' 630 employees were involved in during the year under review included bringing industrialisation and production on phase two of the new infantry fighting vehicle - the Badger - ahead of schedule and a renewal of interest in the new generation Casspir (NG2000) particularly from African countries"[/b]


Okay. From your own list we have covered rifles and MRAP's which are manufactured at Denel Land System, and we sit at 28% revenue. What is left? Bullets. Okay...those are manufactured at Pretoria Metal Pressings (PMP), which is part of Denel. You're saying PMP contributes a minimum of 22% of revenue selling bullets (22 + 28 = 50)?

Think long and hard about your answer. While thinking. Keep in mind there is still Denel Dynamics, Denel Aviation, Denel Aerostructures who must still add their share to a total of 100% revenue. Read the Denel financial report and see who the highest contributor was.

Now please tell us...when you said most revenue comes from rifles, bullets then MRAP's were you just making that up? I don't understand...who does it benefit by you just making up your own figures and fact? It's quite sad really.

That 28% contribution from rifles and MRAP could be the most profitable in terms of cost price and selling price, thats is what is called profit margin. The high end stuff maybe less profitable, especially when sold in very few numbers.

Most of DENEL profits come from rifles and MRAP....unless you can prove otherwise....but you cannot
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patches689:
Brazil, Morocco, Algeria, Malaysia, Iraq

Over 17 navies use the periscopes we build

Hear that? Its the sound of your argument crashing and burning!

How many periscopes did you sell? 1,000 ? Show proof

patches689:
1. "Top 100" means of ALL Defence comapnies or at least the TOP 100 of companies assesed- simple English tells you this

2. Denel is younger than DICON

3. Top 20 Arms exporter - fact.

Come now brah.

If mediocrity it being amonst the 100 Biggest Defence firms in the world. If mediocrity is being one of the top 20 exporters in the world.

What then is DICON? What is PROFORCE? What is Nigeria?

Nigeria has a 100% black man built DICON and PROFORCE, but South African DENEL is a white man built defence company existing since 1960s under different name, getting direct technology transfer from their white men brothers in Europe and paying Israel to send Jewish engineers with full technology transfer to work for DENEL .

Ours is 100% Nigerian origin, yours is inherited 1005 from your ex-white masters....your Soweto brains built nothing

China is missing on the top 100 list....makes the list fake or simply flawed and incorrect.....the list that ranks DENEL above China is garbage !
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NAF Bomb disposal robot made in Nigeria...VIDEO


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bnt96hRTes

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[size=13pt]Proudly made in Nigeria...FULL VIDEO [/size]

http://africanspotlight.com/2015/07/28/photos-video-students-of-nigerian-air-force-invent-bomb-detector-robot/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bnt96hRTes

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2015/08/30-percent-of-terror-funds-sourced-from-outside-nigeria-investigation/?utm_source=&utm_medium=twitter

For my archives, I will save this in my folder. We have all read it anyway, just that the South Africans were so shocked they pretended it was never posted.

Thiza:
@Lionel4power stop posting rubbish....is that a missile or christmas firecrakker....HERE IS THE REAL MISSILES DESIGNED, MANUFACTURED AND PRODUCED BY SOUTH AFRICA

It's a Nigerian made missile in development stage, a prototype.

A workshop prototype will never look fine like a commercial factory product made for sale by a company.

Should I show you photo of what South Africa's original prototypes of Rooivalk and Ratel IFV look like? You won't be proud of them
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ssaengine:
Unfortunately for you, the article is about Denel Pty (Ltd) making the top 100 list. Not the South African defence industry at large. Denel does not make the majority of its revenue from MRAP's, hence their purchase of BAE Land Systems this year to increase that capability.

You tried to be clever, and left with a bloody nose...."everyone makes and sells those these days anyway"....lol, such desperation. You've tried to shift the focus away from Denel, to our industry at large. Denel makes the majority of its money from selling high end defence products abroad, and about 40-45% selling to the SANDF and the South African Police Service.

Again, enjoy the ride in your imaginary MRAP. There was no need to try and sound clever on a Wednesday morning, no one forced you to comment. So enjoy your embarrassment.

DENEL's biggest profit source is not anything high end equipment. Most of DENEL profits come from tens of thousands of rifles and bullets, then MRAP.

Stop fooling yourself. How many countries on earth use high end South African weapons when your price is as expensive as those from Europe? Nations will rather buy from Aamerica, Europe, Russia since the price is same as DENEL products.

Again I say, stop fooling yourself.

mzilakazi:
PEOPLE TELL ME WHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU EVER FIND A MISSILE SO ANTIQUE OTHER THAN IN NIGERIA.

BWAHAHAHAJAJA…

OMG!!! LOOK AT THAT WORKSHOP. IT LOOKS MORE LIKE BACKYARD WORKSHOP. TRULY NAIJA IS STILL BACKWARD

Fool

That's a workshop for construction and fabrication ! It's not a company's industrial complex factory production line that is commercially built to look fine.

You don't know what an experimentation workshop looks like? Does DICON production plant in Kaduna Nigeria look like that workshop? Mumu
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• Nigerian army locally made spy balloon deployed in battlefields against Boko Haram- source, defenceweb

• Nigerian army now fields Canadian made Aeryon mini-drone in battle, man portable, day/night operable quadcopter drone. Source - Insiders/Arms transfer monitors.

Both surveillance devices make Nigerian army set another record of first in Africa.

Nigerian army now has the best battlefield surveillance capabilities in Africa....Ground radars, TV Cameras, Quad copter night drones, Spy Balloons !
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mzilakazi:
DENEL IS RANKED TOP 100 OF ALL DEFENCE COMPANIES IN THE WORLD IN TERMS OF REVENUES MADE FOR 2014 FINANCIAL YEAR.

http://mobi.iol.co.za/#!/article/denel-in-top-100-defence-manufacturers-1.1898293

The above list is faulty and incorrect.

Where is Norinco company of China? They develop, manufacture, and sell thousands of defense equipment all over the world on a yearly basis. Nigeria alone bought over $100 million worth of Norinco equipment in 2014.

Chinese defense companies are far ahead of South Africa, China is in the top 5 arms exporters rankings worldwide, yet some mumu is making a list that excludes China from top 100 arms producers.....LOL.....so easy to fool a South African by telling him he has three heads, one visible and two invisible
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