₦airaland Forum

mzilakazi:
We still can kill you from over 130 km away with a remote controlled weapon like this. The only screams we will hear will be "OGA!! RUNNO, THAT MAGIG PLANE IS COMING AGAINNO, HEY!! HEYYOOO!!"

All your guided bombs will be sh.ot down by Nigerian army air defences, your bombs are a threat to Lesotho and Swaziland only.

mzilakazi:
Bwahaha… Next month Denel will fully prove you wrong when they will be doing firing tests. What I like about Marlin is the fact that the project is fully funded by the government meaning that Denel does it for SANDF. The weapon will not need to be bought or whatever. They will develop it for SAAF.

Marlin missile project delay is due to DENEL being broke, it has announced a begging appeal for a foreign cash sponsorship partner.

mzilakazi:
THE SAAF SEEKER 400 WILL BE ARMED WITH MOKOPA OR IMPI-S MISSILES ( Small 25 kg missiles)

Nope liar, there is no source that says you will arm the drones with missiles. Same way Rooivalk NEVER got a guided missile till today.

SANDF has NO missile armed drones, only Nigeria has that is sub saharan Africa.

We are more modern than you.

jln115:
Jap being test fired in September!! guessing its a paper-mache missle!

Yes, you are test firing a dumb rocket with zero guidance, Sudan can do that too.

Thiza:
YOUNG EAGLE EXERCISE 2015

SANDF poor kit, no knee pads, no elbow pads, no gloves....poor Southie kits

DictatorZAR:
In March last year you lost one out of the 12 and in May this year you lost another one leaving you only with ten in appalling state.
http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-25316/

Like I said you have no clue whatsoever on what you talking about, it seems you only comment for the sake of it.

Illiterate, your source is dated "Written by defenceWeb, Thursday, 03 May 2012"

No F-7 jet has ever crashed again after the 3, now we have 12 and they fly thousands of hours in Boko war with NO SINGLE accident.

#Death By Own Source

DictatorZAR:
Tell me how many F-7's you had 12 and two crashed in the last two years leaving you with only 3 pilots.
.

Show me proof that F-7 crashed in the last two years. Also show proof that we have only 3 pilots.

No proof = Trolling

mzilakazi:
You don't stand a chance attacking SA at all. As for Nigeria, SA stand a perfect chance since even ordinary pirates can attack Nigerian base and loot it of its powerful weapons.

They looted rifles, AK-47, or you think T-72 tanks and artillery is used to patrol water creeks and swamps?

BTWN, the pirates are Nigerians living inside Nigeria, actually not pirates, they are oil thieves. Does SANDF troops already live inside Nigeria or need to travel 5,000 km away and be exposed on the open ocean to our satellites, patrol aircraft, and coastal artillery bombardment ?

Nigeria too can invade South Africa since Rhino poachers are border crossing in from Zimbabwe to loot your resources daily while your national security system remains confused and beaten blue black
.

mzilakazi:
That's a lie. We use only one universal camo for all our arms

Your navy wears brown camo at sea?

patches689:
The Lynx belong to your air force, your navy have NO SINGLE AIRCRAFT OR AIR ARM. Nigerian navy owns all her Lynx, AW 109, drones.

Again, an argument based on technicalities

- Lynx was purchased for use on the frigates. All Lynx are fully operational
- No nigerian maritime helicopters are operational.

You say Nigeria has no maritime aircraft? What of NAF ATR-42 MPA
- Is the ATr-42 an ASW helicopter


Your T-craft is a small toy boat comparable to civilian boats, they are average speed inshore patrol boats, they don't go to deep ocean, your Namaccura class is a tiny 9m long boat classified as harbour patrol....you have no ocean interceptor like Nigerian Shaldag gun boats, let's not go back to old arguments, every eye can see your pathetic imbalanced navy.
- T-Craft has a range of 900km and a speed of 32 knots. It is a high speed ocean interceptor.
- Namacurra has radar, and a 12.5mm gun. It is a high speed interceptor

Again, you try to use technicalities to win an argument

Dont talk to be about imbalanaced when your "navy" is incapable of doing what navies actually do - fight wars!


Alpha jet is as much a trainer/light attack as Hawk jets, we both lack radar on them.

hahahahahahahaha

No!

Can Hawk deploy PGM's? Yes
Can Alpha jet deploy PGMs? NO

Can Hawk engage in missile air-to-air combat? Yes
Can Alpha jet engage in missile air-to-air combat? NO!

Does Hawk have radar? YES
Does Alpha jet? NO!

SIPRI records 18 Mi-35 Hind E and 18 Mi-171 terminator delivered to NAF 2014 as 36 fresh helicopters, add the previously owned Mi-24 and Mi-171, NAF flies about 50 combat helicopters, SAAF flies 11.

ok, you have "50 combat helicopters"

However, you have ZERO attack Helicopters.

SAAF has 11

The Hind in Congo is an old Ukrainian version, not the latest 2014 Hind E that NAF flies, yet the old Hind did as well as the Rooivalk, so Hind E is superior. We have done this old tale before, no need to repeat.

Yes, and we provided pictoral evidence that it was the lates gen of hind.

Liar

Nigeria has hand held Ichoku mini drones, photos posted here many time with NAF demonstrating them. NA now has quadcopter Aeryon mini drone, first in Africa, photo will emerge later.

PROVIDE PROOF

Liar

SANDF has NO SINGLE ARMED DRONE in service,

Denel does

and

Denel = SANDF

wont waste time repeating Nigerian army list of amphibious armoured vehicles, we have dealt with that topic in detail here, Cobra, VBL, BTR, Sagaie, etc. Stop asking people to list for you what has been posted here repeatedly or freely available on internet, it shows you have been defeated. SANDF is a dry land only army and therefore NOT modern

- Please list what these 500 units of modern amphibious units are
- Please state how this renders our army obsolete
- Please list one instance where an army with amphibious armored vehicles have crossed a river to play a decisive role in a battle (post WW2)

Still pathetic/10

Nigerian navy has about 7 maritime helicopters that are fully active, see photo below. Our AW 109 are naval versions for maritime operations. We have 3 anti-submarine helicopters in storage that we do not need to use, the Lynx. All 10 helicopters belong to Nigerian navy, the South African navy has no pilots and no single aircraft, you totally depend on your air force for maritime air operations. Your over-hyped navy is NOT complete, NOT balanced.

Most countries in the world have no single role attack helicopter, they use Hinds which are multi-role attack+transport helicopters, makes more sense to have a multi-role platform before you add a single role later if you wish. The world has over 3,000 Mi-24 Hinds flying around, but only 11 Rooivalks, so which one is in more demand due to usefulness?

Ukraine used old hinds in Congo, they have no Hind E which is the latest version. NAF has Hind E, leave the old topic dude.

Alpha jet is manufacturer configured to carry air to air missiles and PGM, it's a matter of whether you bought the missiles or not. Google Alpha jet manufacturer specs and educate yourself.

I won't repeat photos of what has been over-repeated on this forum, it kills peoples interest when you over-repeat stuff, so go google NAF hand held Ichoku drones photos, and Cobra, BTR, etc are all amphibious Nigerian army armoured vehicles, I won't repeat that old story, I has been fully discussed and proved on this forum. Try avoid dragging this forum backwards, people are complaining about your brain that works in reverse gear R mode.

mzilakazi:
SURELY EVEN THE CITIZENS OF NIGERIA DOES NOT KNOW HOW MANY DIFFERENT UNIFORM THEIR MILITARY HAVE. THAT'S WHY ANY UNIFORM IN NIGERIA WILL BE LINKED TO MILITARY SINCE MILITARY HAS 211 DIFFERENT UNIFORMS. NOW BOKO HARAM IS EXPLOITING THAT OPPORTUNITY. WE HAVE SEEN THAT EVEN @HENRY AND HIS MATES ASK THEMSELVES AS TO HOW MANY UNIFORMS DOES INFACT MILITARY HAVE. THEY LOOK VERY CONFUSED.

Evolution. Nigerian army is designing and field testing a new universal desert camo. We will still have different jungle camo, because green is the only blend for greenery.

Our navy and air force will have their own different camo. Blue/Black/Grey is the only blend for blue sea. No sensible navy will wear land colored camo at sea.

SANDF brownie uniform is designed only for fighting at home, go wear it in a yellow sand desert and see how snipers will eat your troops for breakfast, lunch, and dinner
.

mzilakazi:
The US to switch to only one camp starting next year.


WITH SANDF SETTING THE TREND. SANDF IS TEACHING THE SUPERPOWERS THAT MANY CAMOS HAVE NO SUBSTANCE.

http://www.army.mil/article/131259

The proposed new American camp will still not work in winter snow lands, USA will still have second camp for white snow terrains. So, not one universal camp.

Your SANDF deep brown camo will fail in Sahara type of desert, any light yellow sand terrain will expose your entire army like goods displayed for sale on a trade fair open pavilion , the enemy will see your brownie uniform with their eyes 3 km away, they will be kïlling yöu like Baygon killing mosquitoes at random
.

Best kit on the continent....Nigeria

ssaengine:
Again I told you....do not waste my f*cken time. No one is forcing you to reply.

What do you mean "did I read my source at all?" Where did I say that Denel is testing a guided missile?
Where did I say it is a finished product? I am merely posting articles for those who want to read them.
If you feel you need to fight and argue over everything posted, then that it your f*cken problem, not mine.

In fact before that article was posted on Defenceweb, I had posted my own snippet a few days before.
I clearly say it is an unguided test. Now you come here rushing in, asking if I read my own source.
F*cken idi.ot. This is what a posted below.

"Marlin unguided flight tests to start late this year or earlier next year. Project funded by Denel and the South African Air Force. To give the SAAF a BVR capability of 100km. The relative quick speed of this project is due to certain sub-components coming off other missile projects such as Umkhonto and A-Darter.

Again cements South Africa's stance of prefering to develop projects which they deemed strategic in-house (or with a single trusted partner), rather than having to rely on foreign sources."

You wanted to scam us to believe that the Marlin is going to be ready soon and give your SAAF BVR missile.

See, dude, DENEL cannot even afford the cost of developing the missile, they are begging for foreign cash partners to co-sponsor the project.

Your current test is merely like Nigeria test firing rockets at Epe site into the sea, we do that here too.

SAAF will have no BVR missile until maybe 2020.

Patchesagain:
1. You have an imbalanced and incomplete navy, NO aircraft at all and NO stealth IPV, MPV, OPV, no super speed ocean Interceptors.


LOL - an argument based on technicalities

-"no aircraft"

What are the 4 super Lynx?

By comparison Nigeria has no operational maritime aircraft

-"no stealth opv etc"

Valour class is stealth, as is the heroine class submarine. Both can perform maritime patrol

By contrast Nigeria has no operational warships and no submarines

-"no super speed Interceptors"

You mean apart from the Lynx, T-CRAFT and Namacurra Class?

2. Hawks have no radar, they need a Gripen to fly beside them to 'borrow' radar

Do your alpha jets have radar? No!

Can your alpha jets borrow radar? NO!!

Can your alpha jets (majority if them) deploy PGMS? NO!

Can your alpha jets engage in air-to-air missile combat? NO!

You clearly didn't think that through.

3. Just 6 Gripen pilots today.

Not even going to bother responding to such blatant trolling.

4. Obsolescent Rooivalks, only 11 combat helicopters.....Nigeria has about 50 !

- You don't have fifty. You know it and I know it
- Obsolete compared to what? Your ancient Hinds?

Combat in Congo proves Rooivalk > Hind

5. Many modern things Nigeria has that you dream of in South Africa, missile armed drones and man portable quad-copter night drones, they don't exist in your country

- You don't have hand held drones
- South Africa also has missile armed drones (ours don't crash).

May I add, Nigerian army has over 500 units of modern amphibious armoured vehicles that can cross a river for combat operations.....South African army is a dry land only army....obsolete and outdated for that reason alone[/b]

- Please list what these 500 units of modern amphibious units are
- Please state how this renders our army obsolete
- Please list one instance where an army with amphibious armored vehicles have crossed a river to play a decisive role in a battle (post WW2)

Lol, August, this is probably one of your more pathetic posts.

Now shall I list the things we have that you do not?

The Lynx belong to your air force, your navy have NO SINGLE AIRCRAFT OR AIR ARM. Nigerian navy owns all her Lynx, AW 109, drones.

You say Nigeria has no maritime aircraft? What of NAF ATR-42 MPA ? Fool

Your T-craft is a small toy boat comparable to civilian boats, they are average speed inshore patrol boats, they don't go to deep ocean, your Namaccura class is a tiny 9m long boat classified as harbour patrol....you have no ocean interceptor like Nigerian Shaldag gun boats, let's not go back to old arguments, every eye can see your pathetic imbalanced navy.


Alpha jet is as much a trainer/light attack as Hawk jets, we both lack radar on them.

SIPRI records 18 Mi-35 Hind E and 18 Mi-171 terminator delivered to NAF 2014 as 36 fresh helicopters, add the previously owned Mi-24 and Mi-171, NAF flies about 50 combat helicopters, SAAF flies 11.

The Hind in Congo is an old Ukrainian version, not the latest 2014 Hind E that NAF flies, yet the old Hind did as well as the Rooivalk, so Hind E is superior. We have done this old tale before, no need to repeat.

Nigeria has hand held Ichoku mini drones, photos posted here many time with NAF demonstrating them. NA now has quadcopter Aeryon mini drone, first in Africa, photo will emerge later.

SANDF has NO SINGLE ARMED DRONE in service, so how will they crash when you don't even have them? NAF has them. American drones crash more than Chinese.

I wont waste time repeating Nigerian army list of amphibious armoured vehicles, we have dealt with that topic in detail here, Cobra, VBL, BTR, Sagaie, etc.

Stop asking people to list for you what has been posted here repeatedly or freely available on internet, it shows you have been defeated

SANDF is a dry land only army and therefore NOT modern
.

patches689:
You failed comprehension at school

When deployed to the valour class, as they are constantly, they are kept in the hangar

Aparrently, it has never occurrd to our resident military researcher that the hangers on ships are used to store aircraft

Nope, you show proof that they are constantly hidden inside Valour frigate hanger at sea. Available official report says your Lynx are based on land at 22 Squadron air base as they are owned by the air force.

You need to prove they are now navy property and CONSTANTLY on ship.

mumu !

patches689:
No

A-Darter is a next gen missile

Thus, by definition, not the same level

Makes no difference when we both die at close WVR combat range no escape zone. PL-9C has hit probability of about 90%.

.
You are just testing a dumb rocket with zero guidance, and BTWN, your Marlin missle...I mean rocket looks ugly, even the one Nigeria is building in a workshop looks better !

You like insulting other people's prototypes, and I have told you that the day we see photo of your own prototypes, they will be more ugly....and also, that DENEL workshop looks like my secondary school laboratory in Lagos !
.

NAF Jaguar jet during training in UK

ssaengine:
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40322:denel-dynamics-to-test-marlin-bvr-missile-technology-in-september&catid=7:Industry&Itemid=116

Just for a slightly longer version....

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/images/stories/INDUSTRY/Denel_Dynamics_Marlin_400x300_Guy_Martin.jpg

"Denel Dynamics will conduct missile flight tests of its new Marlin missile system in September and November this year ahead of a first guided test flight in November 2016, where it will be demonstrated against a moving target.
...

The 80-100 kilometre range Marlin radar-guided air-to-air missile is being developed by Denel Dynamics under an Armscor/Department of Defence technology demonstrator contract. Denel Dynamics will be using a dual pulse rocket motor on the Marlin (this uses two fuel chambers and one exhaust nozzle) for extended range.
...

Marlin can also be configured into an all-weather surface-to-air missile. Common subsystems will be used for the different variants of the weapon, with some components derived from the A-Darter and Denel’s Umkhonto surface-to-air missile.
...

Although Marlin is fully funded by the Department of Defence via Armscor, Denel Dynamics is looking for an international partner to collaborate with during the future development programme. The company said it is currently talking to a few interested parties."

[size=13pt]Bwahahaahaha Nonsense !

Did you read your own source at all?

It says you are testing unguided rocket, basic straight line shot rocket firing, not a missile. Marlin rocket booster only

Your source story says the guided Marlin missile itself will NOT be tested until November 2016.

Then we can expect it to enter service in 2020 because the story says South Africa is still looking for foreign countries to become joint development partners.

You have no BVR missile and you will NOT have one soon....still many years away !

SAAF is stuck with 19 km range A-Darter missile, NAF F-7 jet has 22 km range, we are about the same level
.[/size]

jl115:
Its been a busy day today at Simons town, thought id post these pics on this thread considering we don't use our Lynx helicopters with our Valours according to @Agaugust

I said the Lynx belong to your air force and are based on land at 22 squadron airbase, they only land on the ships occassionaly and NOT constantly as @Patches falsely claimed, reason why 95% of valour frigate photos show no helicopter on board.

You failed comprehension in school.

patches689:
1. Unlike Nigera, we have a navy. You do not.

2. Hawks are weaponized - they can deploy JDAMS (you only have 2 airplanes that can do that) and engage in air to air combat

3. 14 Trained pilots in 2013. Its now 2015.

4. 11 of the most advanced attack helicopters in Southern Africa.

5. Apart from 2 OPV's, the ATR-42 and 2 upgarded alpha jets (with a handfull of drones) there is absolutely nothing modern in your military. Certainly no where near as advanced as us.

South Africa stands head and shoulders above nigeria

1. You have an imbalanced and incomplete navy, NO aircraft at all and NO stealth IPV, MPV, OPV, no super speed ocean Interceptors.

2. Hawks have no radar, they need a Gripen to fly beside them to 'borrow' radar.

3. Just 6 Gripen pilots today.

4. Obsolescent Rooivalks, only 11 combat helicopters.....Nigeria has about 50 !

5. Many modern things Nigeria has that you dream of in South Africa, missile armed drones and man portable quad-copter night drones, they don't exist in your country.

May I add, Nigerian army has over 500 units of modern amphibious armoured vehicles that can cross a river for combat operations.....South African army is a dry land only army....obsolete and outdated for that reason alone
.

jl115:
HAHAHA OK

Built or assembled it doesn't matter, Denel Aviation supplies all the spare to maintain our Hawk fleet!

Show us proof that DENEL now supplies ALL....ALL spare parts for Hawk jets that you imported part by part, piece by piece, the entire CKD from Britain
.

jl115:
-Algeria isn't flying any Mi 28, they don't have any yet ,we have the Rooivalk mk1F,-They are also not flying any Super Lynx because they don't have any, we do!! - the Yak-130 isn't any more modern than our Hawk 120, neither is the Su30MK more modern than our Gripen - in my original post I said the T90 is more modern than our Olifant so I don't know what the problem is- Mokopa is more modern than the Kornet and the Ingwe isn't far behind- We have the Oerlikon 35mm GDF-007 AHEAD, starstreak, and in the near future the Umkhonto SAM,BTW the S-300 isn't that modern- They don't have any Valours or Tigr corvettes- Our Heroine class subs are more modern than their Kilo class- they are going to use the same Exocet missile on their Valours than the ones we are using.

We also have a much much better C4I2R capability than Algeria, Link za,C2,IMPI tracker ring a bell? we have more modern artillery, more modern infantry, and more modern APCs and IFVs.

We also have more modern helicopter fleet and more modern medium lift fleet

We have the widest radar coverage of any country in Africa

and as I said before we have a more modern defence force not more powerful

Algeria has ordered 42 units of Mi-28 Havoc, go see it on SIPRI, they have paid and awaiting delivery. Compare that to your 11 old Rooivalks.

Also, Algeria has ordered 6 units ofSuper Lynx ASW helicopters. Compare to your own 4 units.

Algerian Yak-130 is a modern 2010 jet that just entered service in Russia, your SAAF Hawks are 1995 twenty year old technology from Britain.

Su-30 MKA of Algeria is a special variant of year 2012 mix loaded with French made avionics, Southie nation is flying the basic 1995 old type Gripen jet with no upgrade.

Then Algeria has S-300 anti-aircraft missiles with about 200 km range, South Africa has NO SINGLE long range anti-aircraft missile, you carry hand/shoulder held MANPADS that fly max 1km altitude to kill pigeons !

Algerian navy Kilo submarines are two types, the basic kilo and the new improved Kilo on order, it beats your 1990s generation Heroine subs.

You want to compare Algeria's new armed landing ship with your obsolete SAS Drakensberg?

Their navy has ordered, paid and construction is far advanced for their superior MEKO and TIGER frigates that beat your obsolete combat suite Valour frigates that carry 1970s repainted guns, while your Exocet missiles are the old types with 78km range, the Algerians have the modern 180 km range Exocets.

Comparing South Africa's military to that of Algeria on a basis of who is more modern, is like comparing a Nokia 3310 and I-Phone 5.

Fool ! Stop this nonsense.

jl115:
1. Exactly my point idi0t!! you keep bringing up the fact that our Valours have 0 torpedos, when we also have 0 Submarine threats.

2."13 Exocet missiles for 32 exocet launchers?" WTF are you talking about dude?- Neither do you - We manufactured everything but the engine and drive train on our tanks, everything else we manufactured and still maintain by us alone - We built almost all of the Hawk jets in SA, so again you don't know what your talking about - Denel Aviation build spares for ALL our Oryx and Rooivalk helicopters - Denel Aviation also builds spares and maintains all our C-130s- Southern African Shipyards just did a major refit on one of our Valours, they also maintain all of our other Valours - We also refitted SAS Manthatisi and maintain the rest of our Subs by our selves- We don't have to import any missiles, we build our own.

See how foolish YOUR arguments are mate!

Nigeria has surplus Otomat, 40 missiles for 8 launchers . SAN is the one facing chronic missile shortage.

South Africa built no Hawk jet you thief, you imported fully built CKD parts from Britain and assembled the parts at home, Egypt does same for Alpha jets.

You maintain no submarine at home, you only changed battery on one submarine and took seven years in dry dock to change one battery, war would have enslaved every Southie before you finish battery changing in a war situation.

Dummy nation.

jl115:
Our Helicopters are more modern, our Radar coverage and Air defence is more modern, Our medium lift aircraft are more modern:
Pic 1 : Oryx cockpit
Pic 2 : SAAF C-130BZ Cockpit
Pic 3 : SAAF PC-7 trainer
Pic 4 : SAAF Hawk 120 LIFT Cockpit

P.S then we still have our A109s, our Gripens , Cessna 208Bs, PC-12, Beech Craft king air which have all modern/have been modernised!

Algeria is flying the latest versions of Super Lynx ASW, latest Yak-130 trainer jet, latest Su-30 MKA, Mi-28 Havoc, driving latest T-90 tanks in hundreds of numbers, latest Kornet ATGM, latest mobile Pantsir air defense missile plus cannon that have anti-missile capabilities, modern S-300 long range anti-aircraft missile systems, sailing or about to sail latest Meko frigate with latest Oto melara main gun, latest Kilo Sybmarines, latest Exocet missiles with extended range, latest Tiger corvettes, latest armed landing ship mini helicopter carrier....

South Africa is far far far behind Algeria, please drop the foolish comparison.

mzilakazi:
Since when are sergeant majors administrators? Surely you can see that with those ranks during the bush war era they were still either non-leader group or junior leaders and that will make them to take front ranks and be actively involved in the war. I have lost count of how many people I met in the force who took part in the bush war, both former MK members and former SADF members, the former enemies brushing shoulders together as now comrades in arms.

I need proof that those men in those photos fought COIN war operations in Angola. Any dummy can wear SANDF uniform, even white-men recruited 20 years ago after Bush war ended, will still appear in uniform despite never having fired a rifle in combat all their lives.

Prove to us that Eben Barlow's battlefield war veteran colleagues are still in SANDF today.

mzilakazi:
Dude I don't disagree with that, but there are as well thousands of personnel who fought in the bush war who are still within the ranks of SANDF including ANC former MK generals. Many of them took part the bush war while they were still youngsters with some as young as 17 years of age. The bushwar was brought to end in 1991.

Show me proof of old SADF Bush war COIN experts currently in SANDF service today.....simple question, answer with proof
.

mzilakazi:
Agaugust thinks if you fought in the bushwar you have to look somehow very different. There is nothing so special about bushwar for I know quite a lot of people, black, coloureds and whites who participated actively in that war and who are still serving actively in the force.

There are thousands of South African army men in service that never fought during bush war despite being in the force at that time, administrative staff are among such troops who sit at home, or you can prove that you deployed SADF accountants to COIN special combat operations 1,000 km away from home to fight Cuba?

Liar

mzilakazi:
Your question is so stupid.

Your claim is so silly....so prove it !

iblawi:
where did u get the information that boko haram size is 4000. Do u even know how many have been killed.

The guy is a big time fraud fabricator

mzilakazi:
You are wrong. Those man fought in the bush war and thousands of them were integrated into SANDF together with former homelands forces.

Show me proof that those men fought in Angolan bush war, prove it like Eben Barlow is proved to have fought the bush war.

Prove it !!!!!!!
.