budaatum: Death is an inevitable consequence for all things that have life.
Eating from the tree of good and evil made Adam and Eve aware that things die.
So, are you saying Adam and Eve were going to die anyway even if they didn't eat from the tree of knowledge, because of course thay had life? Even when they were specifically told that they will die only if they eat from the tree? So, death was a useless threat? I think you should check your argument Budaatum. You're threading a path where you'll shoot yourself in the foot.
ChngedChnges: "any day you shall eat of this fruit you shall surely die" is already a knowledge given to them. so they were not zombies. what's your point Mr. Rationalist ?
How were they supposed to know that dying is a bad thing? Were they told what death is? How come you cannot fathom what my point was, Mr irrationalist?
There's no entity outside scope of time except such entity is non-existence.
Did Allah beforehand already know the outcome of Ibrahim test or not?
What about Muslims that become atheist?
Is this an argument, do you reason before you post some things?
Yes the Quran is a book filled with ancient myth and fairytales and yes I've read the Quran.
From Adam story to Nuh story to Musa story to Dhul-Qarnayn and many more.
Is there anything hidden about him?
The universe is not all perfect, the universe is as well chaotic.
Where are the people that contacted astral entities, can they provide evidences to their clam?
Will you believe me if I told you I contacted Santa Claus?
BTW how does this prove your God?
Good
His choice or let's say he thoughts suddenly trigger him to start creating? Yes?
Nope, this is your assumption, there's no factual evidence the universe had a beginning.
We assume time started from the big bang we don't know what happened before the big bang, so time can be infinite and time can be dimensional, as long as there's living entity existing in a dimension there is time and space.
God cannot be outside scope of time as long as he exist, reason, think, plan. A thought and a plan has a measurement.
Allah existing for infinite and suddenly started creating, he must have been moved by something and choose that particular TIME or MOMENT for creation. Your God is subjected to a time and a prime mover.
How did he measure the six days? With nothing?
How did he know that this is day one, the hours, minutes, seconds?
Lol, a plan must have measurement. A plan comes with thoughts.
A plan and a thought has a beginning, the measurements start from there to the end. You choose particular time to effect your plans, so you can't tell me there was no time when Allah was planning.
Lol, these people can't argue without bringing the Devil into the picture.
Martinez39: I think I had one two days ago. I was in a hall filled with white plastic chairs, standing air conditioner and two other people. There was a lion in the hall accompanied by a lioness. Don't ask me for full details . I was scared as hell.
Only a mad person will expect an angel to blow a trumpet and people will hear it physically and others will start flying into the clouds. Christians can't be madder
budaatum: I'm sure you'd stop when you want to Akin, until then, where the heck did you get "ignorance is the first sin" from, and that "Adam and Even (sic) deserved to die because of ignorance"? Do you know the meaning of fallacies and straw men? You have kind of got me wondering here!
Death, in case you are not aware, is not a deserved thing but an inevitable thing, as far as living things go. And ignorance is not exactly known to kill people per se, though a lack of knowledge may shorten one's life. As to the first sin, the very first human sin? You must think I have some special powers to go back in the time human beings have existed to know what sin they committed first! But if you mean biblical first sin, as in the first sine recorded in the Bible, then disobedience would be the answer, though some have said listening to a serpent would more than qualify. And listening to a serpent would be ignorance since they ought to have known, or be able to know serpents do not exactly speak.
Was death inevitable for Adam and Eve before they ate from the tree of good and evil or was death a consequence of eating from the tree of good and evil?
budaatum: It's not a 'deserved' thing, but a consequence of not doing that which will allow one to live. And a lack of knowledge does not have to kill me for it to be shown that ignorance kills. Below is death rates for a few countries to help you get your head around it.
If ignorance is the first sin, and Adam and Even deserved to die because of ignorance, so do you.
Stop creating fallacies and straw man arguments here. I don't have that time.
bloodofthelamb: I normally ignore it, when people come with name calling but I'm moved to respond to this. Thank you that this is what you think about me, your words are insignificant and won't get to me because I am filled with the thoughts of who I am now in Christ. To me that is all that matters.
And you are such a nice and lovely guy!
I don't do name calling when I see honest people, but your own dishonesty is appaling.
You can't just talk and not be responsible for it, and where I said only fools worship such a God you just described are fools, I wasn't mistaken and I wasn't singling you out as a fool, it's collective foolishness. So, don't take it personal.
budaatum: How can anything be on a fictional thing Or are you not an atheist? You say "fault", a funny choice. But please tell, who is it that suffers from ones ignorance?
You're doing it again! How does "deserve", apply to "the hands of any God" , that you said was "fictional"?
If God is fictional and we are to argue from that premise, then why are you responding? This post was to prove further that God whichever fits this story, is fictional. And I have highlighted the inconsistencies in the narrative that proves that he is.
So to prove further that he is indeed fictional, I have to argue from a hypothetical viewpoint, assuming he exists. You should get that.
budaatum: Is it not written that the wages of sin is death, and does ignorance not lead to death?
Then you deserve to die too, or do you have knowledge of everything, including the things that can kill you?
budaatum: Poppycock, Akin? Or you just don't understand a single word that I've written?
bloodofthelamb: Akin1212, In other words God's pity and love is truly leading us to what can indeed make us free, His word.
You are such a lying machine. Keep it up. You said God is not driven by emotions and tears. Now that I called your bluff with verses from your bible, you want to extend the lie that God the same one that is not driven by emotions and tears has a pity that is leading us somewhere.
Is it the same word where he had to send himself as his son to come and die in order to forgive all of us? Who worships such a God sef? If not fools
TV01: And, I have not for once disputed the fact that humans can be classified as animals. If we agree a taxonomy based on your choice of limited and subjective use of physical criteria, why not? My point has always been that, based on additional or, different criteria, human beings can be considered more than, or different to brute beasts.
Lmao, are you turning around now?
You said humans are more than being animals, by what valid standards? Human no matter who they are are animals in scientific usage. And this is the most objective position.
Any other usage is subjective and that was exactly what I told you! Just admit your bias and let's move on.
You have no proof of any other criteria, it's a physical world. Wake up from your fantasy.
TV01: I am not arguing at all, merely stating my wholly permitted and reasoned position regards the categorisation of living creatures - whilst not denying you your own.
Now you're no more arguing after dragging the matter over some rounds? Lol. You're stating your position not on a reasoned position, but on a position acquired by faith, which assures you that you are special among other creatures, whilst you're just as useless as a goat on the street, nothing is special about man, it's just deceit. You don't need to agree.
TV01: And, I have good news. One human is able to create and manage the technology with the power of 4'000 apes. If I deem that ability a differentiator and criteria worthy of making a distinction betwixt human and ape, who are you to gainsay?
It's just an advantage of difference. It still doesn't make the human more than an animal. If one human and one gorilla are kept in a cage, one one one, no other item is allowed, the gorilla will triumph.
TV01: Sir, you are like an ape showing aggression towards it's own reflection .
TV01: My kids are being taught that they are fearfully and wonderfully made. With infinite meaning and, an eternal destiny. Presumably you ate yours raw .
The ascendant TV
Lol, infinite destiny my foot. Keep lying to those kids. They might as well grow up to know you for the liar that you are. Lying for Jesus .
TV01: Your assertion below directly contradicts your opening statement above. To claim that humans are "nothing but animals" is your wholly subjective position.
Even if we allow for a categorisation protocol based on an agreed group of criteria, that does not discount additional or different criteria yielding further or additional distinctions. Are humans animals, in a manner of speaking sure. Are humans more than just animals? absolutely.
The fact is, humans are imprinted with the image of God. Humans possess a higher consciousness, intellect and ability to reason in an abstract sense. Further, human beings are not driven purely by instinct in their motivations and aspirations and, are capable of morally based actions.
You are free in your taxonomy to include or exclude any or, all of the characteristics I have listed. But please, don't come over all holier-than-thou , labelling a brother subjective and introducing non-animalistic attributes such as reasoning .
á la carte TV
Humans are animals, this position is an objective position backed by embryology, comparative anatomy, histology, physiology, and biochemistry. It is not subjective.
However, show a peer reviewed academic paper that backs your subjective and egoistic claim that humans are not animals. Or are you just arguing from ignorance as usual?
So because humans have an advantage to reason logically more than other animals, therefore humans are not animals? Lol
Well, I have bad news, one gorilla have the strength of 4 adult human males, does that advantage also make a gorilla to be more than an animal?
The question is, did you lose your capability to reason? Your position is only backed by typing useless epistles and human ego which are not useful here or anywhere in the world. When you realize that even enzymes of pigs and gorillas will carry out the same functions in humans, I hope it's not too late for your kids who would have an illiterate for a father.
budaatum: Interesting question you pose here, Akin, I'll try to answer them one at a time. But first, it would seem that you are asking one to take this narrative literally which I'm afraid is way above my payscale! For starts, it's not history so taking it literally is, in my opinion, an error.
It's nice to know that you realized it's not history, which meansit didn't happen. It's just pure fiction and I already know that. I only asked hypothetically because of those who believe it happenfor real.
budaatum: The Bible is one of the earliest scientific theories put forward as knowledge of what is. It was written at a time when only so much was known, and treating it the way you appear to be treating it is like going through the works of Darwin and Newton and claiming they knew everything pertaining to the subject they wrote about, when the truth is, they really only knew so little, but quite a lot for their time. So, with that said, and with expectations of criticism
The bible was not and still not a scientific theory. And there's nothing worth responding to here besides that.
budaatum: Early humans have always attempted to explain death and bad things, but you might understand how difficult it might have been for them considering how little they actually know. In the days of Aphrodite, less than 2500 years ago for instance, a mare (horse) had to lift up both it's hindlegs and a woman would get pregnant, was a belief resulting in the reverence of horses. Even in the Orolu Kingdom it is today believed amongst some that a male cat has to literally jump over a female cat for for it to get pregnant, and despite showing them cats copulating on youtube.
Sone people are still gullible, doesn't mean they are correct.
budaatum: The text you refer to is teaching that disobedience results in death instead of your placing of the cart before the horses. Considering one were subject to those who knew better at the time you might understand how it might work. Someone after all would always lord it over those who know much less.
That's not all it teaches though, that narrative being one of the most explored as far as the Bible is concerned.
Prior to what is narrated in the story, they couldn't know 'satan' (or error) since they were ignorant.
If they couldn't know about Satan, then it was no fault of theirs for eating what they ate. The joke is on the fictional God.
budaatum: It arose as a recognition of the ignorance of the human race. What is referred to as "original sin" is just that, ignorance.
Funny enough, the answer to this is yes, they did "commit the sin before having the knowledge of good and evil" since they hadn't eaten of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil which would allow them to know good and evil.
I guess to get the gist of my meanings here, you'd have to understand what early human being was prior to God breathing into mud. Some knowledge of evolution might help.
Ignorance is not a sin, no one deserves to die in the hands of any God for that.
They committed the sin of choosing between good and evil even before having the knowledge to choose between good and evil. I see how you warped everything up into a poppycock.
MuttleyLaff: Humans are human, animals are animals, what so difficult in that to acknowledge, afterall each has its distinctiveness that separate one from the other. Humans will never ever mate and successfully reproduce with any living animal, and so just shows that humans, regardless of closeness in embryology, comparative anatomy, physiology and biochemistry with some animals are not animals but are more than being animals.
Subjectivity does not in any way play into this reality at all
Lol, there's no level of ignorance I will not see here on Nairaland.
Is a lion not an animal? Is a goat not an animal? Is a human not an animal?
The same way a lion will never ever mate successfully with a goat or any other animal is how a human will not mate successfully with other animals, but that does not make a human being less of an animal.
Your humanistic ego might not let you accept this fact, but humans are animals and nothing can change that. There is nothing like more than being animals. There is no classification called human, humans fall under the kingdom Animalia.
bloodofthelamb: God is not moved by tears and emotions. He is moved by His word. In a law court you do not win a case by tears and emotions, you win by knowing what the law states.
We are more than an overcome by knowing what the word of God says about us in Christ. Keep your emotions in check!
You just said God is PITILESS.
God is not moved by tears and emotions, yet Jesus wept when he realized that Lazarus had been dead for 3 days.
God is not moved by emotions and tears, yet in Isaiah 63 vs 9 it was written clearly that God was moved by the affliction of people.
Isaiah 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
Even in James 5 vs 11, another pitiful nature of your God was revealed
James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.
And Psalms 116 vs 6 gave people the assurance that this God will help the helpless.
Psalms 116:6 The Lord protects the helpless; when I was in danger, he saved me.
I know it's very hard to be a Christian and not lie for God, the moment you stop lying for God is the moment you're woke.
You've lost what makes you human for this nonexistent God and that's why you will keep your emotions in check when a 16 year old helpless girl was abducted and raped and then killed. God didn't intervene, because he does not exist. An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent God would intervene. But here you are, once again lying for God. Keep it up.
TV01: Whichever classification captures creatures imprinted with the image of God. Or perhaps one that includes beings capable of abstract thought. Maybe a class whose constituents possess the ability to create and manage advanced multi-varied technological processes.
Then again, you may well prefer to categorise them along with animals who consume their own faeces.
TV
Humans are very much animals, mammals to be precise. From the systemic level to the cellular level. What is the image of God, can you show us how God look so that we may have something to compare with human's image? Humans are more likely in the image of animals than in the image of a non existent invisible God.
@bolded, are you saying ALL animals consume their feces? Haven't you heard or seen humans who consume feces or at worst drink urine and eat the dirt from the nose?
You still find it difficult to accept that humans are animals?
bloodofthelamb: Though this was not for me but nonetheless I have a right to respond because the nature and goodness of my Father is being lampooned. God cannot intervene without man's invitation and corporation by faith. The reason being that He has given the Earth to man. God said, "let them have dominion and rule over the Earth." I believe got sought for man to stand in the gap for the girl but found none. Good is good and He is indeed love!
This was also not for me, but I feel the need to lampoon your Father further. Your Father could send his son to come and die for the sins of the men even though he was not asked to do so. Your father could send series of messages to men in order to intervene in the affairs of men. But all those were written in your holy book. Yet you're here claiming he doesn't intervene.
But when it comes to real life issues, your Father will rather look on and enjoy the show. You people are full of lies and deceits.
Who do you think we are, kids?
The cognitive dissonance going on with you people is second to none. And it's cool because gradually you people will start seeing the craps you're all made of, including your nonexistent father.
In your fictional books he will not intervene, that's right, that's exactly why he doesn't intervene in real life events besides the fact that he doesn't exist. And that's why I didn't even respond to the mention of that guy who commented something similar. It's a waste of time.
TV01: I wonder, although I'm not really surprised, at how anyone would introduce animal behaviour to justify the same in humans. Dysfunction across species is still dysfunction, not justification. Do we even do that for behaviour that can be considered morally neutral?
TV
What are humans, in terms of biological classification. Plants or Animals? And if you want extended options, chose among any of these - Monera, protista, fungi, plantae and animalia.
That is exactly correct- that was my practice for thirty years.
I do not practice Fasting at this time because I incurred a condition that I require more than Fasting alone to cure- and I need time off work to implement it.
Drugs are completely unnecessary against MALARIA, if one FASTS.
The FOOD that feeds the BODY also feeds Parasitic Illnesses.
When one Fasts, the body accesses its reserves to feed its cells, but Parasites do not have access to THAT resource, and so can starve to death from that alone.
MALARIA is not the only illness that is cures/immunized against through Fasting.
Neither can you catch Cold for weeks after Fasting for merely three days and three nights.
[color=silver].[/color] PSALM 107:17-22.
17. Fools because of their Transgression, and because of their Iniquities, are afflicted. 18. Their soul abhorreth all manner of meat; and they draw near unto The Gates of Death. 19. Then they cry unto The LORD in their Trouble, and He Saveth them out of their Distresses. 20. He sent His Word, and Healed them, and delivered them from their Destructions. 21. Oh that men would praise The LORD for His Goodness, and for His Wonderful Works to the Children of Men! 22. And let them sacrifice The Sacrifices of Thanksgiving, and declare His Works with rejoicing.
BY THE END OF THE NINETEENTH CENTURY, THE GENERAL CONSENSUS AMONGST OYINBO MEDICAL DOCTORS WAS THAT THEY KNEW VASTLY MORE THAN THE IGNORANT AUTHORS OF THE BIBLE.
"Look at the nonsense in The Bible," they scoffed. "It says here, that that "Jesus" fellow went FORTY DAYS AND NIGHTS WITHOUT EATING! In a Wilderness! Those ignorant laymen don't know that that is SCIENTIFICALLY-IMPOSSIBLE! He would have died of thirst in about TEN DAYS! His Gastro-Intestinal Tract would have FUSED TOGETHER! He would have gone MAD with HUNGER, and he would have been TOO WEAK TO EVEN MOVE! He would have DIED in that Wilderness- SCIENCE HAS PROVED IT!"
Finally, a Christian Doctor TANNER was grieved at all this pompous talk, and announced that he would volunteer himself as a test-subject.
"I will Fast," he said, "and you will monitor me."
He predicted that he would not suffer during the Fast, that he would be as fit as he ever was, OR FITTER.
The key, he said, was in the detail of the Scripture:
[color=silver].[/color] MATTHEW 4:1-2.
THEN was Jesus led up of The Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of The Devil. 2. And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was AFTERWARD an hungred.
1. THAT THE LORD WAS HUNGRY MEANT THAT HE WAS A MAN, DOING NOTHING SUPERNATURAL TO ENABLE HIMSELF TO FAST.
2. That the Scripture specifically said that he was hungry AFTER forty days and nights meant that he was NOT hungry during the Fast.
3. That he was only HUNGRY, and not THIRSTY after forty days and nights of Fasting meant that he had been drinking water the whole time.
There would have been springs and streams in the Wilderness with which he could have satisfied his thirst.
If one does not drink at least 1.25 litres of water while Fasting, death by Kidney Failure would ensure as from the 7th day.
I personally know of two Pastors who so died on the 7th days of their Fasts.
Doctor Tanner fulfilled all of his predictions.
During one experiment, he lifted a heavy chair overhead, to demonstrate that he was still strong- or stronger than before he began the fast.
He went on to Fast forty days twice more. His last forty-day Fast was when he was in his eighties.
His grey hair began growing out black!
[See: THE FASTING PRAYER, by Franklin Hall.]
WHEN YOU IGNORANT KIDS DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING, YOU JUST WRITE POMPOUSLY, BLUFFING THAT YOU KNOW THINGS THAT YOU DO NOT.
Instead of thanking someone for giving you good advice, you respond with abuse.
It is not only me you insult, but my God, and all who follow him.
How long would it take you to GOOGLE Fasting on the Internet, and verify what I have so generously told you?
[color=silver].[/color] MATTHEW 7:1-6.
"JUDGE not, that ye be not judged. 2. "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3. "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy Brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4. "Or how wilt thou say to thy Brother,
'LET ME PULL OUT THE MOTE OUT OF THINE EYE;'
and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5. "Thou Hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. 6. "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."
BUT YOU WOULDN'T DO THAT, BECAUSE YOU ARE TOO WICKED TO IMAGINE THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
The greatest Christian Proponent of Fasting in recent decades was FRANKLIN CAREY HALL.
He was arguably singlehandedly responsible for the great Pentecostal Revival that broke out after WORLD WAR II, because he was the leading Fasting and Prayer Preacher. The great Miracle Workers of the latter 20th Century had thousands of people praying fervently for the success of their Ministries. But nobody cared about THEM- all the Glory went to the "great" Ministers.
The mighty TOMMY LEE OSBORN Ministry began because T.L. OSBORN, who was a failed Missionary to INDIA, and returned to America sick, happened to read Brother Hall's most famous book, and went on a 21-day Fast, and *saw* "JESUS."
He was struck with the realization: "JESUS IS ALIVE! WHEN I PRAY, HE CAN HEAR ME!"
He then went to a WILLIAM MARRION BRANHAM Service- considered the greatest Healing Prophet of the 20th Century.
He heard a Voice consistent with The Voice of God speaking to him, personally:
"AS I WAS WITH ALEXANDER DOWIE, I WILL BE WITH YOU! AS I WAS WITH SMITH WIGGLESWORTH, I WILL BE WITH YOU! AS I WAS WITH WILLIAM BRANHAM, I WILL BE WITH YOU!"
He went out and travelled around the World, preaching The Gospel with instant Healings.
He was one of the first to FILM Miracle Healings for others to see.
These productions are still available today from his Ministry- though some of them have been uploaded to the Internet.
He wrote a glowing testimonial to Franklin Hall and made mention of him in his book.
All the Full Gospel Healers were organized under the auspices of the GORDON LINDSAY Ministry.
This organization was called "THE VOICE OF HEALING."
Members included WILLIAM BRANHAM, ORAL ROBERTS, T.L. OSBORN, FRANKLIN HALL, and several others.
At some point, it was decided to OSTRACIZE Franklin Hall- on grounds of "HERESY."
He was a UNITARIAN- he believed that there was only ONE GOD- and that that one God was JESUS CHRIST.
WILLIAM BRANHAM believed the same thing, but was not ostracized.
Others were TRINITARIANS- they believed in the Traditional THREE PERSONS- ONE GOD model of the ANATHANSIAN CREED, or whatever they call it- God: The Father, God: The Son, God: The Holy Ghost which is also wrong- and NOT what GOD Commanded us to believe in.
I THOUGHT IT STRANGE THAT ALL THE MINISTRIES THAT OSTRACIZED FRANKLIN HALL ALSO DEEMPHASIZED FASTING.
Without his Teaching on Fasting, The Full-Gospel Pentecostal Church gradually fell into corruption and materialism.
[color=silver].[/color] MATTHEW 17:14-21.
14. And when they were come to the Multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,
15. "Lord, have Mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the Fire, and oft into the Water. 16. “And I brought him to thy Disciples, and they could not cure him."
17. Then Jesus answered and said,
"O Faithless and perverse Generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I suffer you? Bring him hither to me.”
18. And Jesus rebuked the Devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very Hour.
19. Then came the Disciples to Jesus apart, and said,
"Why could not we cast him out?"
20. And Jesus Said unto them,
"Because of your Unbelief: for verily I Say unto you,
'IF YE HAVE FAITH AS A GRAIN OF MUSTARD SEED, YE SHALL SAY UNTO THIS MOUNTAIN,
"REMOVE HENCE TO YONDER PLACE;"
AND IT SHALL REMOVE; AND NOTHING SHALL BE IMPOSSIBLE UNTO YOU.'
21. "Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by Prayer and Fasting."
I LEARNED BY CHANCE THAT THE PRACTICE AMONGST AMERICANS WAS TO DEMAND PAYMENT FOR THE USE OF ONE ANOTHER’S IDEAS.
Someone like T.L.OSBORN could be said to owe the entirety of his success to FRANKLIN HALL.
If you research his ORIGINAL Testimony, you will find that that is exactly the case.
It is not a stretch of the imagination to say that T. L. Osborn would not even have been ALIVE, if it were not for FRANKLIN HALL teaching him Fasting. However, he surely never did anything for Franklin Hall besides talk.
Since they would not want us to know how shallow-minded they were, I am sure that the Full Gospel Movement disfellowshipped Franklin Hall because he demanded Financial compensation and recognition from their Ministries for his contribution.
This was later used on KENNETH ERWIN HAGIN, who plagiarized E.W. KENYON'S writings without crediting him, nor financially-compensating his family. They finally sued him for it.
Kenneth E. Hagin wrote a book on Fasting that was total bull(*Bleep!*) he confessed that HE HAD ONLY FASTED AS LONG AS THREE DAYS AND NIGHTS IN HIS LIFE- because he "ALWAYS GOT WHAT HE WANTED BY THE THIRD DAY."
I was disgusted to read that. It tells us that his WANTS were very MEDIOCRE and SELF-CENTRED.
However, getting to know about his life- he did tend to ramble some- I know that that is a LIE, because something happened when he was trying to build his RHEMA BIBLE TRAINING CENTER- he ran out of money, and was going to forfeit the land, or something like that, if he did not finish the project by a certain time, and for some reason, money was not flowing in.
He had hitherto taught that BORROWING MONEY WAS A SIN: therefore, he borrowed money SECRETLY.
It came to light, of course. A 501(c)3 Tax-Deductible Church is completely accountable, therefore it was inevitable that malicious spies would find out about this loan, and expose him.
Therefore, Kenneth E. Hagin was obliged to publicly confess the truth of what he had done.
This would have been the time of my first suspicion that SOMETHING WAS NOT RIGHT WITH THE FAITH DOCTRINE: if the Great Kenneth Hagin, a man who said that he had seen God on His Throne, and been to Heaven with Jesus, could not "DO THE IMPOSSIBLE" with HIS Faith, what hope did the rest of us have?
But it was years later that he wrote his arrogant booklet on Fasting, that contributed to my leaving Organized Christianity.
[See: A COMMONSENSE GUIDE TO FASTING, by Kenneth E. Hagin.]
Therefore, advances to the Faith made in different Churches to not get shared, because they hate one another- there is no way to sugarcoat that fact- and do not want a situation where the can be liable to remit millions of dollars to the Minister whose work they plagiarized without their written permission.
Therefore, there are things that you will hear from one Preacher, that another Preacher will not verify, because they don't have the copyright on it, and do not want to give credit to a competitor- even if they were DEAD.
FRANKLIN HALL TESTIFIED IN A TRACT- AFTER FORTY YEARS' EXPERIENCE AS A PREACHER OF FASTING- THAT FASTING CURED 98% OF DISEASES, AND 98% OF FUNCTIONAL AILMENTS.
I tend to think that someone like that would have to know what he was talking about.
BESIDES THE SPIRITUAL USE OF FASTING:
[color=silver].[/color] MATTHEW 6:16-18.
16. "Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I Say unto you,
'THEY HAVE THEIR REWARD.'
17. "But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; 18. "That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in Secret: and thy Father, which seeth in Secret, shall reward thee Openly."
THE IMMEDIATE REWARD OF FASTING IS THE CURE OF AILMENTS BY:
Whether you practised it for 100 years doesn't change anything. In fact it speaks a lot of volumes about your cognitive dissonance. Since you knew that everything about diseases was written in the bible, why would you be a medical health worker for 30 years? Do medical health workers use the word of your useless God to treat patients?
The question is, do you use drugs to treat yourself of diseases and illnesses or you just fast? Your kind of person is so foolish that you cannot be redeemed from the foolishness. Do you think wisdom is by age?
I don't want to lecture you but let me give you a quickie, malaria parasite needs glucose for its metabolism and it will always get it unless if external factors or drugs are used to kill the parasite. When we fast, we may reduce the rate of intake of glucose, but we cannot stop the rate of glucose production inside the body which will continue to feed the parasite. When we fast, we may reduce the symptoms of malaria, but fasting cannot cure malaria because all other biomolecule monomers in the body can be converted to glucose through specific metabolic pathways, But you wouldn't know that, would you?
The body needs energy to continue functioning, the energy is gotten from glucose, in the absence of this energy, the cells will die, hence fasting is not advised because you cannot fast until all the parasites are dead, you will also die. Many people have died from malaria illness, in fact, this illness was once an epidemic. If your God now designed fasting as a way to cure malaria, why didn't he announce it? If your God even designed fasting that has also killed many people to cure illnesses, go and tell him that he is a failure. There are more effective ways to cure malaria, besides the fact that fasting is useless.
Rashduct4luv: I don't know what concerns atheist with a new convert to Islam. You have tried all your best to infect Muslims here with your ideology all to no avail.
No one forced him to convert. Wetin concern these two people above me with the matter here?
Why not wait till you die and see the truthfulness of the oblivion you claim!
Olohun ma se wa la dorun mooto!
Allah can only be met when we die, as if dying is traveling. You need to acquaint yourself with so many things.
THE BIBLE IS WRITTEN FOR THE SERVANTS OF GOD- NOT FOR THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL, SUCH AS YOURSELF.
I am a Medical Health Worker - Laboratory Assistant, as I have said before, and am well-acquainted with the SCIENTIFIC THEORY OF DISEASE.
The "GERM THEORY:" that Parasitic Organisms invade the body, destroy essential structures, and shed debilitating toxins, causing "ILLNESS," "SICKNESS," and "DISEASE."
That is what the OYINBOS think cause those conditions.
The Oyinbos are WRONG.
If Malaria Parasites caused Malaria, EVERYONE infected with the Germ would come down with Malaria.
Other factors are actually responsible.
[color=silver].[/color] MARK 7:1-23.
THEN came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem. 2. And when they saw some of his Disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault. 3. For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding The Tradition of the Elders. 4. And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables. 5. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him,
"Why walk not thy Disciples according to the Tradition of the Elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?"
6. He answered and Said unto them,
"Well hath Esaias prophesied of you Hypocrites, as it is written,
'THIS PEOPLE HONOURETH ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME. 7. 'HOWBEIT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.'
8. "For laying aside The Commandment of God, ye hold The Tradition of Men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do."
9. And he said unto them,
"Full well ye reject The Commandment of God, that ye may keep your own Tradition. 10. "For Moses said,
'HONOUR THY FATHER AND THY MOTHER;'
and,
'WHOSO CURSETH FATHER OR MOTHER, LET HIM DIE THE DEATH:'
11. "But ye say,
'IF A MAN SHALL SAY TO HIS FATHER OR MOTHER, "IT IS CORBAN, THAT IS TO SAY, A GIFT, BY WHATSOEVER THOU MIGHTEST BE PROFITED BY ME;" HE SHALL BE FREE.'
12. "And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13. "Making The Word of God of none effect through your Tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye."
14. And when he had called all the people unto him, he Said unto them,
"Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand: 15. "There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. 16. "If any man have ears to hear, let him hear."
17. And when he was entered into the house from the people, his Disciples asked him concerning the Parable. 18. And he Saith unto them,
"Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; 19. "Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?"
20 And he Said,
"That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. 21. "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed Evil Thoughts, Adulteries, Fornications, Murders, 22. "Thefts, Covetousness, Wickedness, Deceit, Lasciviousness, An Evil Eye, Blasphemy, Pride, Foolishness: 23. "All these Evil Things come from within, and defile the man."
TO BE SICK, ILL, OR DISEASED IS REFERRED TO IN SCRIPTURE AS BEING "DEFILED," OR "UNCLEAN."
The Oyinbos don't teach this, because the Oyinbos don't know- not even "FULL" GOSPEL Preachers have figured that out, yet.
SPIRITUAL POWER is built up by MEDITATION- which meant nothing to you, when I taught it, because you are too weak of Spirit and Soul.
[color=silver].[/color] LUKE 8:4-18.
4. And when much people were gathered together, and were come to him out of every city, he spake by a Parable:
5. "A Sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the Fowls of the Air devoured it.
6. "And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
7. "And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.
8. "And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold."
And when he had said these things, he cried,
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."
9. And his Disciples asked him, saying,
"What might this Parable be?"
10. And he Said,
"Unto you it is given to know The Mysteries of The Kingdom of God: but to others in Parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. 11. "Now the Parable is this:
'THE SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD. 12. 'THOSE BY THE WAY SIDE ARE THEY THAT HEAR; THEN COMETH THE DEVIL, and TAKETH AWAY THE WORD OUT OF THEIR HEARTS, LEST THEY SHOULD BELIEVE AND BE SAVED.
12. 'THEY ON THE ROCK ARE THEY, WHICH, WHEN THEY HEAR; RECEIVE THE WORD WITH JOY; AND THESE HAVE NO ROOT, WHICH FOR a WHILE BELIEVE, AND IN TIME OF TEMPTATION FALL AWAY.
14. 'And THAT WHICH FELL AMONG THORNS ARE THEY, WHICH, WHEN THEY HAVE HEARD, GO FORTH, AND ARE CHOKED WITH CARES and RICHES AND PLEASURES OF THIS LIFE, AND BRING NO FRUIT TO PERFECTION.
15. 'BUT THAT ON THE GOOD GROUND ARE THEY, WHICH IN AN HONEST and GOOD HEART, HAVING HEARD THE WORD, KEEP (it), and BRING FORTH FRUIT WITH PATIENCE.'
16. "No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light. 17. "For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad. 18. "Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have."
THERE ARE FOUR SPIRITUAL ENERGY CATEGORIES: WHICH OUR PARENTS WERE IN WHEN THEY CONCEIVED US DETERMINES OUR DEFAULT CATEGORY FOR LIFE. To change it takes effort.
[color=silver].[/color] REVELATION 22:11-12.
11. "He that is UNJUST, let him be Unjust still: and he which is FILTHY, let him be Filthy still: and he that is RIGHTEOUS, let him be Righteous still: and he that is HOLY, let him be Holy still. 12. “And, behold, I come quickly; and my Reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”
IF A PERSON WERE HOLY, IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE THEM SICK, ILL, DISEASED, OR DEAD BY INFECTING THEM WITH A GERM OR INJECTING POISON INTO THEM.
UNHOLINESS is therefore the cause of all Sickness and Disease.
[color=silver].[/color] THE FOUR LEVELS OF PERCEPTION.
4. DIFFERENTIATION: the intelligent ability to perceive the differences between similar things.
3. ASSOCIATION: the intelligent ability to perceive the similarities between different things.
2. IDENTIFICATION: the stupid and insane inability to perceive the differences between different things.
1. DISSOCIATION: the stupid and insane inability to perceive the similarities between similar things.
0. DEATH: the inability to perceive anything at all.
[color=silver].[/color] THE EIGHT DYNAMICS.
1.Self; 2.Family; 3.Groups; 4.All Mankind; 5.All Living Things; 6. The MEST (Matter, Energy, Space, Time- i.e. Physical) Universe; 7.Spirits; 8.God.
[See: THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THOUGHT, by L. Ron Hubbard.]
OUR SPIRITUAL ENERGY CATEGORY DETERMINES WHAT WE CAN PERCEIVE AND DO.
A weak Soul such as yours would not perceive that the same Spiritual Principles apply on every DYNAMICS Level of Existence.
A strong mind would be able to associate The Law of God pertaining to CITIES to The Laws of God pertaining to Individuals.
Therefore, if you have a City that is under siege, with its supplies cut off, a situation will arise where the PEOPLE will have exhausted every EDIBILITY within the City, will consider EACH OTHER as SOURCES OF FOOD.
If people are reduced to EATING THEIR DEARLY-BELOVED CHILDREN to stay alive- HOW WOULD THEY TREAT FOREIGN GUESTS AND CRIMINALS who entered uninvited, and are contributing nothing to their Survival?
Wouldn't they CANNIBALIZE THEM FIRST?
If this Law is applied to the Human Body- which is a COMPARABLE MAGNITUDE to a CITY- how do we impose a SIEGE-CONDITION on the City that is our Body? By FASTING.
A person of average weight has enough FAT RESERVE to live comfortably for FORTY DAYS.
After that, the Body starts to CANNIBALIZE its TISSUES to stay alive, until it breaks down, and DIES- painfully.
But before that time, any PARASITES in the Body- even the useful ones needed to protect exposed tissues- ALL DIE of STARVATION or CANNIBALIZATION. Therefore 98% of Disease Organisms DIE when their Host Body is subjected to FASTING.
That is the PRINCIPLE set forth in DEUTERONOMY 28:49-57.
That is the CURE for MALARIA.
In my experience, THREE DAYS AND NIGHTS OF FASTING are sufficient to CURE Malaria and bestow immunity for at least 30 days.
TEN DAYS AND NIGHTS of Fasting confers immunity in endemic areas that lasts for MONTHS.
FORTY DAYS of Fasting may make one immune for up to a year.
This is part of the RICHES OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD that He laid up for THE RIGHTEOUS- but not for arrogant, cynical, and proud, SINNERS- who lack Humility and Manners- who are not afraid to address their father and mother's age-mates- besides SERVANT OF THE MOST HIGH GOD- as "FOOL."
Like I said, you're just a foolish human being.
So as a medical health worker, when you have malaria, you just fast for 3 days and 3 nights and you don't take malaria drugs? And fasting confers immunity for you for every 30 days?
Instead of being a lab assistant, why don't you consider a career in pastoring so that you can stop using modern drugs and be telling your brethren to cure malaria with fasting. I cannot even bother to set you straight by typing epistles, you're not worthy of such time and knowledge. Your foolhardiness no be here. Stop being a fool dude, at this your age?
TV01: I thought you were excused to attend to your malady? Or, have you managed to unearth those mysterious biological factors
A man penetrating a "hole in a wall" or, a woman intimately abusing herself with an inanimate object is instinct? And my thinking is been questioned by such a one . Truly this runs deep
Mating by dumb animals is done with an outcome in mind. As instinct driven as they are, same sex animals will never, in lieu of an opposite sex counterpart, seek to mate with one another. And, there is no evidence that demonstrates same sex animals seek to form pair bonds for sexual gratification or mating by instinct. Dumb I said, not cray-cray.
Man who in a pure state is capable of communing with the divine, who has the imprint of God. Man who has higher consciousness and the ability to conceptualise is by reason of depravity reduced to the level of brute beast .
Mans nature now runs the gamut from the holy to the profane, from the divine to the perverted and, to justify that which is dysfunctional and abhorrent, you would place the base animalist desires of the fallen man to the fore. Denying their estate as men, they prefer to be as the beasts
Rightly Jude the Apostle spoke - 6 Remember the angels who did not stay within the limits of their proper authority, but abandoned their own dwelling place: they are bound with eternal chains in the darkness below, where God is keeping them for that great Day on which they will be condemned. 7 Remember Sodom and Gomorrah, and the nearby towns, whose people acted as those angels did and indulged in sexual immorality and perversion: they suffer the punishment of eternal fire as a plain warning to all.
I have answered you above. Your warped reasoning says anything humans do is instinct. And anything instinctive is therefore deemed morally good or acceptable?
There are no inherent pathologies with the rightly ordered union of male and female.
Hermes019: Christian Apologist can twist arguments u begin to wonder were their humanity went to
Even the way they do with so much confidence is what surprises me. They prefer to turn out as dumb when it comes to God. I once had an argument with a lady who claimed that if it's God's will that a 2 year old girl be raped, it will happen.
Maybe believing in God is synonymous to losing humanity, I don't even get it.
Ihedinobi3: @Hermes019, I'm not sure why you tagged me seeing as I am one of those "dumber persons" who explain everything with God's gift of free will.
To answer your post though, this world is evil, so evil things happen in it. As to why God does not intervene, as I always say, it is because of free will. God could stop all evil going on right now without breaking a sweat. But if He does, no one would have a choice but to obey Him. That choice is important because only with it can those who will be God's Eternal Family be separated from those who will not be.
If God prevented those who committed that dastardly act from doing what they did, then not only would their ability to exercise their own free will be taken away but new opportunities for others (like you who are currently affirming your rejection of His Authority as a result) to do the same would not be created effectively denying those others a chance to make a choice about God.
God will in the end heal every damage that all those who trust Him pick up in this life because of the evil of this world. He will also right every wrong and provide perfect justice in every single instance in the end. So, His permission of evil for now is not a problem at all. He can fix the damage that it does. He can also end it at will. Evil is something He permits because of free will.
On a serious note, you people are really confused!
So God gave the oppressors and murderers of the girl free will, huh? So God will uphold the freewill of oppressors over saving the oppressed? So God will suppress his own power and ability to help the oppressed because he wants the free will of the oppressors to be used?
Why do you people pray to God then to save you from your enemies? You want God to suppress the free will of your enemies now so that you can be relieved? You want God to make use of his own power in your case and stop the free will of your enemies from being used?
But when this God shows you people that he doesn't exist, you start looking for excuses and lies to cover up for the non existent God. So much confusion. SMH
Crime › Re: I Was Gang-raped By 8 Students, Blackmailed, Unilag Student Tells Court by Akin1212(m): 1:46am On Feb 27, 2019
Or are you not an atheist? You say "fault", a funny choice. But please tell, who is it that suffers from ones ignorance?
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