pilgrim.1:

Perhaps we could lok at it in the shades of the typical Islamic "screaming" only when events have occured. That is the default position taken by Muslims -- scream out after the deed is done and make the world feel better about your schemes, especially when they've not been following events carefully.

i can imagine osama bin laden's discussion with the chief imam of his mosque going like this:

osama - chief imam, we are going to bring down the world trade center on 9/11 and kill as many as we can, both christains and muslims (who shall be sacrificial lambs) in the name of Allah, most gracious, most merciful, so that America and the rest of the world would know that Allah is the only existing god!

chief imam - my son osama, go ahead and preach the words of the prophet mohammed as deadly as you can! kill yourself if need be for you will be rewarded with virgins too many to count!!

really pilgrim.1, do you think osama actually informed the muslim world what he had in store on 9/11? so how then do you expect screaming to be done before the act??

pilgrim.1:


Indeed there are. Islam is usually called the "religion of peace" - maybe what has been happening among themselves defines the word 'peace' in a whole new way that we just haven't woken up to realize as yet.

perhaps you should lt the dead bury their dead!!

pilgrim.1:


Yes indeed again. Especially when the politically correct will mislead you into believing that there's no threat of any kind at all coming from the quarters that have no regard for your life.

the politically correct would not mislead you, on the contrary you do not need to be informed of any danger because all such danger would have been averted and done peacefully and quietly too!! there are still people that lend their voice in the face of oppression and all what not without being overbearing.

pilgrim.1:


Before davidylan or I were born, fundamentalism has been in existence. Beyond our time and yours (even if we shut out traps), fundamentalism will continue. Speaking out against the hideous hypocricy of the so-called political correctness is what creates awareness and foils the attempts by the true jihadists to gain easy access to your very life.

you can be rest assured that rubbishing people's beliefs which you call speaking out will only stir up more heat, and not the awareness you so crave!! you know why? because not everybody thinks the way you do, not everybody would agree with you on all points, not everybody would have experienced the things you have!! what sets you apart is how you are able to manage these differences. that is what character is made of, that is what leadership is made of, and that is how change is effected.

pilgrim.1:


I'm not afraid to be controversial and branded as such, if only I speak out against the very ideologies that feed the threats we have to live with as part of our daily experiences. And yes, we have come to know "them" by their deeds - ask the powerful icons who are killing themselves now in the "religion of peace".

my point in all of this dearie is that sometimes controversy would only get you the wrong audience. people want to hear those that can sway them from their very roots without them having a feeling of having lost their identity or the feeling of insecurity of having the rug swept from under their feet. people want to listen to you and say "oh, i see!! now i understand why you say this or that", people want to find conviction and the meaning of their existence!! controversy may not give them the answer they are looking for, it may only lead to more confusion and unanswered questions!!

so my dear, i don't have a problem with your trying to create awareness, but i'm saying do it in accordance with matt. 5:16. your light must shine before men, they must look at you and wonder, they must give glory to God just by looking at you (and in this case, reading your post) that way your awareness has begun and even become effective before you know it!!!

cheers.

davidylan:

After hemming and hawing you still havent come up with any substantial proof of these "fundamentalist" christians beyond trying to hid behind a cowardly "why bother". Have these your christians that only you know about declared a day of rage over Dan Brown's Davinci code? Have they declared Lagos state governed by the 10 commandments? How many muslim "kaffirs" have they killed? any suicide bomber among them? Killings in the name of Jesus?

lol , its like telling you i can't take a gsm phone to some parts of nigeria because there is no network, so why bother, and you telling me that my saying 'why bother' is cawardly!!

when has using one's common sense become cawardly? so again i repeat, why bother?

davidylan:


Perhaps you could be more honest and admit they've never spoken out at all and their quietness is perhaps a tacit sign of silent approval.

perhaps you could be more honest and admit that the sultans comment against killing by islamic sects is an example of the 99% screaming at the top of their voices!!!
there are peace loving muslims my dear, whether you admit it or not!!!

davidylan:


These two sentences don't mix at all. A politically correct individual is not one who mixes God and politics but one an irredeemable appologist who prefers to bury his/her head in the sands of denial just to please the othe party.

perhaps a politically correct individual is one who knows how to keep the world peace!!!

its because of utterances like yours and those of the fundamentalist you so despise that christain/muslim rivalry would never come to an end!! and your peace is threatened alright!!

and for the politically correct that know how to speak up in the language that everybody understands, we know that to effect a change, we must first reflect change, to be an effective leader, we must first lead by example!!!

by their works indeed we shall know them, maybe you should ask yourself if people (at least on nairaland) know you for your work of God or for your anti muslim crusade.

davidylan:

Here is the problem with many of the analogies from PC "christians". where are these mysterious "fundamentalist" christians and where are there exploits? Care to mention 2 or 3 especially in Nigeria? And please don't mention Rev King, at least we know he is facing the death penalty and 100% of the christian community do not regard him as one of them.

i wish i knew the meaning of PC Christain you know!!!
have you ever heard of a place in Nigeria called ivori? dont think so!! so thats why i would not give you any examples you can relate with, cos a lot of things happen in parts of nigeria and africa as a whole and you dont have that kind of publicity. so even if i told you countless examples that i am aware of, it may not make sense to you!! so why bother!!

davidylan:



This is vague at best. Clearly NO christian in history has ever gone around killing others on the basis of the verse you mentioned so why use the analogy in the first place? to attempt to blame the problem on merely "interpretations of the koran" is to play the ostrich with the truth, are there no misinterpretations of the bible, hindu holy book or sikh holy books? Why is misinterpretation only in the koran?

really? perhaps you are only interested in the misinterpretations in the koran!!!

davidylan:


This is where you totally miss my point. No one is castigating the remaining 99% of "peaceloving" muslims but here is the crux of the matter:
1. The remaining 1% have proven to be a formidable force for violence, murder, intimidation and bigotry. 9-11 and 7-7 should be crucial reminders.
2. Where is the voice of these 99% when the 1% are busy terrorising the rest of us in the name of god?

perhaps their voice is cracked from screaming at the top of their voices, trying to get the deadly 1% to stop polluting them!

davidylan:


Neither is uninformed political correctness going to do you any good. Thank you.

i'm not trying to be politically correct here!! i for one do not mix God and politics!

davidylan:

by the cleansing with the blood of the lamb, the sinless one.

is that really enough to make one sinless? cos in that case a lot of people will fail to take responsibilities for their actions afterall, they have been cleansed by the blood of the lamb!!

_{i'm not starting an argument by the way, just hoping people dont indulge in all sorts of evil and thinking that their sins have been wiped away since 2000yrs ago!}

25th August

prettydiva:

my boyfirend does not love me

is there any particular reason you feel this way?

davidylan:

where are the otuwe's and aproko's? They only appear when its time to defend the indefensible.

perhaps the otuwe's and the aproko's have just come across this thread _{(we go to work too you know (lol)}

well, they are killing themselves and not christains right? am sure the koran did not tell muslims to kill themselves!! so like i always say, fundamentalist in any sect are the ones with the problem.

needeeg:

Use to see Christians in Mosque want to be Muslims, while not seeing Muslems in Church want to be Christians, please why such do happen!

which and which churches have you checked?

davidylan:

It wont matter if the other 99% of muslims are truly "peace-loving".

thats so unfair to your assumed 99%!! how come you never assumed any % of fundamentalist christains? is it because you dont hear of their exploits? back here in Nigeria fundamentalist christains commit as much attrocities as fundamentalist muslims!!!

davidylan:


The problem with islam is the ideology that breeds a man who believes he needs to kill as many people as possible in the name of god and as a just reward for al jaanat.

perhaps the problem is not with islam, but with interpretations of the koran!! if a man goes about killing and maiming people saying the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence and the violent take it by force, does that mean there is a problem with christainity or that mans interpretation?

my point davidylan, which i think i have put clearly enough is that you cannot castigate the whole doctrine because some 1 deadly % have decided to take things out of context and control! by the way, that is what happens when a spiritual work is given a literal interpretation.

and really the question about how she feels when christainity is given all sorts of interpretation is not a new one, as a matter of fact, i saw them on this forum.

is it the 99% 'peace loving brothers' that have caused you excruciating pain and long hours at the airport or that 1% assumed? hasty generalisation isn't always nice davidylan.

@ islampride,

on the contrary, jesus has no beginning and no end.

hearty congratulations

Mandora:

You knw, I huried 2 read this thread thinking may be it was your girlfriend or wife that spilled hot coffee. I was just going 2 soak up d drama of u having 2 say u were done with her I mean how cld she b so dumb 2 spill hot coffee on your laptop? But it is so shockingly anti-climatic 4 me 2 hear that it was your sister. She pretty well can't break up with her

me too!! i guess my aproko is too much(lol)

well, i was at the show and the experience was both good and terrible.

saturday---i bought tickets for saturdays performance so i'd have time to prepare for work on mon. on getting there at 3:45pm (show was for 4pm), we(my bf & i) were told the show had been postponed till 9pm. we just drove round and whiled away time and returned to the venue at about 7:30pm, only to see people leaving!on enquiry, we were told again that the show was now billed for 11:00am the next day. we tried desperately to sell our tickets as it was already obvious the show wasn't going to be all that.

sunday---didnt want the tickets to go to waste, so straight from church to thisday event center. got there at 1pm and people were still working on the stage and equipment and all sort of electrical stuff. the ac wasnt even on!! we were all sweating, fanning ourselves, grabbing the days paper(just incase there was any info in it) and exactly 1:23pm thankfully, the ac's were put on. and then we began to watch the stage and those moving equipment!!!!!

at about 2:05pm, shakira finally comes on stage!!at that point, i was glad i attended the show cos she sang all her popular songs and moved her unlieing hips. and she leaves stage about 3pm and then yet another wait.

john legend took the stage at about 5pm!!!you wont believe it, by then those for the 2nd show had started arriving, so it was just one big party! after another hour of wait after j.l, rihanna came on stage and sang the most awaited umbrella. at that point, the time was about 7pm.

the next artist was d'banj, but i left at about 7:45pm (_{had to get a life at that point, a whole weekend for thisday!)} and d'banj had still not showed face!!!!

yeah, i heard later that kelly fainted, probably due to jetlag!at 1st pple thought it was part of the act until her dancers rushed towards her!! my bf left the show at 1:00am after p.diddy performed, and at that point, neyo had not performed, ub40 had not performed, other nigerian artist had not seen the stage!!!

for thisday, the show was a flop!hurriedly organised and not enough publicity, but for me and those that could wait, we spent half the price to see all those artist!!!

so rev. kumuyi is the only man of God in Africa? well, since you are an african and you are not rev. kumuyi but okababa, then you are obviously not a man of God right?

what do you mean by how are we supposed to do it? do you mean physical preparations like taking our baths first and brushing our teeth?

pilgrim.1:

@Aproko,

Matthew 16:18 -- "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

does that make peter a rock?

pilgrim.1:

@Aproko,

Please do so - pick up the Qur'an; and the day you find that what I offered you do not exist on its pages, let me know. In addition, the Hadith will help you to a deeper understanding in your search.

i did try my dear, the ones i came across were in arabic, ok, perhaps i haven't tried hard enough!

pilgrim.1:

Not too long ago, I just finished a rejoinder to doyenn's in another thread where he openly declared that Muslims will "fight to the finish"! Perhaps, that was his own rants and have nothing to do with Islam (the religion of peace)? If you're waiting for the over 6 billion people on earth to be wiped out before you get the message, then my point is made that you really don't know as yet what you're stating.

my point is simple. if every muslim is as terrible as we read on nairaland, then perhaps the suicide bombings and all just got started!! there are muslims that actually are peace loving people, or do i not know what i'm stating too?

pilgrim.1:


Oh, amuse me Aproko. There were times when Jesus displayed His anger - so he called for their slaughter, abi? I guess His anger wasn't strong enough to prevent Him from going to the Cross - and did you say you're a "crossbearer" or aspire to be one? Lol.

i was asking a question on how christains would react if the religion was branded as a violent one, and i gave instances of when people have assumed the bible preaches violence, perhaps i shouldn't have put a coma in that sentence. now what does that have to do with my being a 'crossbearer or seeking to be one?'

pilgrim.1:

@Aproko,

Please do so - pick up the Qur'an; and the day you find that what I offered you do not exist on its pages, let me know. In addition, the Hadith will help you to a deeper understanding in your search.

Not too long ago, I just finished a rejoinder to doyenn's in another thread where he openly declared that Muslims will "fight to the finish"! Perhaps, that was his own rants and have nothing to do with Islam (the religion of peace)? If you're waiting for the over 6 billion people on earth to be wiped out before you get the message, then my point is made that you really don't know as yet what you're stating.

Yeah - and I guess the 'fundamentalist Christians' have been going on suicide bombings, hijacking planes and screaming the same 'Allahu akbar' just to preserve their religion, NO?

Rest assured, people have alleged tens of thousands of stuff against Christianity - including the one highlighted in your posts. But at least we can be reasonable to dialogue in order to understand that Christianity does not teach violence. If it did, then Christians have not been paying attention to such "Christian" teachings in the Bible to go slaughter people after the holy months, laying ambush in every strategy!

perhaps the fundamentalist enjoy interpreting spiritual works for their own selfish purposes!my point is fundamentalist are everywhere, not just in islam.

pilgrim.1:


Aproko, please take time and read the Qur'an and the Hadith. Islam is not what you make of it; and your call here is simply good enough to fuel the flames of Islamic intolerance. How? For the simple reason that Islam does not and will not sit on a negotiating table to allow the idea of a "constructively criticising" any part of Muhammad's religion!

nairaland is a negotiating table, grieviances can be aired without insulting what one has chosen to believe or been made to believe. _{(that doesn't apply to you oh, before you chop my head off! lol)}

Aproko:

, turning the other thing may not even be in your minds radar.

sorry, meant turning the other cheek

pilgrim.1:

@Aproko,

Lol, dearie-dear. . we don't do what suits our moods when it comes to applying the Bible to our daily lives. We seek to understand it for a proper response in the transactions of our daily living.

but sweetheart, when someone hits you and you hit back, your excuse is provocation right? lol, am sure at that point, turning the other thing may ot even be in your minds radar.

truth is, living our lives as Christ taught us is indeed a struggle, even the most noble struggle with their imperfections you must agree. so when one takes the eye of an assailant instead of turning the other cheek, i think we should show sympathy for that person cos we do not know his daily struggles.

@ camden,

people have been married to older women and people would still marry older women. when i say be prepared, it simply means have it at the back of your mind that a time will come when she would remind you that she is older than you. you will just have to deal with it in a very mature manner when that time comes.

its not like i dont believe in happily ever after, but i believe in being realistic.

pilgrim.1:

What we are saying is simply this: the Muslim extremists are not misrepresenting the teachings of Muhammad in Islam - their actions are what Islam by the books depict.

really? i find it hard to swallow that mohammed really came to this earth to teach people how to kill and destroy. perhaps i should pick up a copy of the koran!!

but really, if Mohammed has taught the muslims to fight at every opportunity, then its a miracle that the worlds population is above 6b, considering how many people are muslims!!

we have to be sincere, there are fundamentalist muslims as well as christains!!the bible says an eye for an eye, but do you really go about removing an eye of all your offenders? i dont think so. now how would you feel if anybody says christainity teaches violence, after all there is quite a lot of violence in the bible, and there were times when jesus christ displayed his anger!!!

my point really is that the koran must have something good in it, even if its just love your neigbour and give alms to the poor, perhaps we should focus on the good and constructively critisize the bad instead of branding the whole religion as violent!!

@ce026,

you could try going to their HR dept, and try stating your case nicely. please dont loose hope, just make sure you are not too choosy about the jobs you apply for. you'd be fine.

so are you saying you are still in love with your ex?

jesus never founded any church, so no point really laying emphasis on churches instead of Christ and His teachings.

davidylan:

lol this desperately absurd attempt at excusing the violence that defines islam by claiming there are extremists in christianity too is laughable. Where are the extremist christians? Where are the christian aircraft hijackers, suicide bombers? When last did a pastor declare a day of rage over Dan Brown's book in comparison to the mullah's presently orgasming over Salman Rushdie 18yrs after?
When did a christian seminary turn out "students" who hijack policemen, capture a children's library and women who carry kalashnikovs?

there are extremist christains my dear. Rev. King readily comes to mind. hijacking planes or suicide bombings are not the only examples of 'extremity', sexually abusing the members of your congregation, burning their fingers or any part of their body, or all the parts fo their body for that matter sounds like the extreme to me.

i can also bet that the hostage takers in the Niger Delta would tell you they are christains, so what are we saying?

@ otuwe,

lol i'm here now, so look no further.

@ topic,

i think a lot of us examine the bible and take what best suits us, the things we dont understand and are too afraid to ask, we take to be the mysteries of God, after all His ways are mysterious right?

if we must believe and act on every bible story and exhortation then the theory of an eye for an eye must hold true right? but then again, we are told to turn the other cheek!!! so what do we do? we do exactly the one that best suits our mood!!

truth is whether we accept it or not, some biblical stories are 'literarily and logically untrue' and seem to contradict the very essence of the God we serve.

so does that make me any less a christain because i wonder if creation was really done in the 7 days of the week like we think, or that perhaps the holy spirit may have sperms for 'him' to be capable of getting Mary pregnant, or that i still can't come to terms with the fact that 5 loaves of bread and 2 fishes could feed a multitude, or that judas should be a hero for betraying jesus and being an important tool in our salvation process or that perhaps that serpent didn't say a word to eve, or that perhaps there was even never a literal eve or adam!!! i dont think it makes me any less a christain, it simply means i do not have blind faith!

kaecy5:

interesting , can explain how does that happens if it does happens??

simple my dear. if you can answer these questions, you'd get the gist.

1. why are some people born poor and others rich?
2. why do bad things happen to good people?
3. why are some people in Liberia where they have to face the civil wars?
4. why are some oil workers being kidnapped?
5. why do some people have terminal diseases?
6. why is there so much injustice in the world?
7. why is judas who betrayed jesus for your salvation not a hero?

is it that God is unfair and unjust to let these things happen?

he just wanted us to know he worked with an investment bank really

@ camden,

really, you should be prepared for the fact that after a while when you get married, she would remember she is actually older and stop being submissive. it always happens, so be prepared for that possibility.

and again, she may never loose weight, she may only gain some more. so if you love her, you have to accept the fact that she may never be halle berry or beyonce. just try to encourage her to exercise, eat less junks and more balanced diet (in little quantity), so she stays healthy and hopefully loose the weight gradually.

good luck and keep us posted

2dye4:


meaning i need a freak, slut, hoe etc, (thats what he really needs because he can share his ideas with his buddies.)

it could also mean 'i am a broke ass gigolo, and i need help from a female cos i'm too lazy to get a job'