₦airaland Forum

Opharhe:
Yes, I've heard of the matter concerning Chief Igbe, Iyase of Benin being originally from Urhobo. It's even said there has been at least another Iyase of Urhobo origin in pre-colonial times probably from the Kokori axis of Agbon in Urhoboland.

I'm paternally from Ughelli Kingdom and I know that aside the general historical commonality of Urhobos and Edos, there existed a strong relationship between the royal houses of Ughelli and Benin in precolonial times, there are other examples too.

Yes that is true. Probably several Iyase were Urhobo. It would not have been considered unusual in anyway. Urhobo, Esan, Isoko, Western Igbo and many others were often integral part of the Imperial Army. Ogogobiaga, an Igbo indigene was one of Benin's most formidable soldiers in the 16th century. Charged with checking Eastern flank of the empire. With lots of privileges and fame back then.
Considering that Iyase was head of the army (not commander of the army, that was/is Chief Ezomo of Benin), it would still probably have been a person of distinction from any Edoid affiliated land to be the Iyase (prime minister & second in command to the Oba).

At least two Iyase were Ado-Akure people(from Eastern Yorubaland). Of course Yoruba people today probably deny Benin punitive expedition against & capture of Akure in 1818. Over the murder of Benin imperial ambassadors. The Arakale (an Akure chieftain mostly responsible) was eventually caught, trialed and beheaded). He had escaped to Ado-Ekiti, where the Ewi quickly expelled him. The most famous Ado-Akure origin Iyase of Benin was Okoro-Otun. He lived long and served three obas of Benin.
Today Arakale Road is a major road in Akure. You can link from it to Ondo-Akure Road, Oba Adesida Road & Oyemekun Road. And Okoro-Otun Avenue connects Central Road to Ikpokpan to link you to Sapele Road & Boundary Road, GRA Benin-City. So history is all around us if we look carefully around us.

A Prince of Brass (bayelsa State), from the Amayanabo family was also an Iyase of Benin. His descendants are the Otokiti family of Benin today. A very large & successful lot.
The Iyase is not a hereditary position, but an administrative/political one. The idea is to select a person of great repute, successful in his previous calling, with diplomatic skills, experience, well-traveled, preferably without any ties with the powerful palace chief and dukes of the Kingdom. This it is hoped will make him independent and objective in representing the citizens of Benin as a whole.

The success of Benin Empire was a collective one. For Edoid people and Beyond. From people skilled in arts and craft coming to Benin for royal patronage, war mercenaries,to the Ijaw seafarers responsible for transporting troops & goods along the Atlantic and many more.

The recent situation in Nigeria where in order to gain political relevance, avoid marginalization and get a share of the national cake, it has become expedient to highlight our differences. Instead of what unites us. So much so that Urhobo & Okpe are now being increasing seen as different people.

Opharhe:
You have really dissected the issue quit well, in a good academic manner. Yes, myself, an Urhobo, I don't see people from Edo, Esan areas etc as strangers too because I understand our shared heritage and understand the linguistic similarities. Infact, I found Esan to be be very similar to Urhobo language too if not more similar to Urhobo than Benin sef .
I find these things very interesting and I just can't get enough of it.
For example, In my Church Choir where I belong in school, I find myself easily noting and correcting mistakes in pronunciation of words in Edo language even when I don't get the real meaning of such words.
I stay in Benin occasionally, and the similarity of the language with Urhobo fascinates me a lot.

Yes, I've heard of the matter concerning Chief Igbe, Iyase of Benin being originally from Urhobo. It's even said there has been at least another Iyase of Urhobo origin in pre-colonial times probably from the Kokori axis of Agbon in Urhoboland.

I'm paternally from Ughelli Kingdom and I know that aside the general historical commonality of Urhobos and Edos, there existed a strong relationship between the royal houses of Ughelli and Benin in precolonial times, there are other examples too.

But I think I have a small issue with your Itsekiri narrative. Yes, the Royal house of Itsekiri is descended from Benin infact, Oba Olua was the father of Prince Iginuwa whose sons later founded the Itsekiri kingdom.

But the truth is, and evidence from far-reaching studies shows it too, the Yoruba-speaking communities that later formed the larger stock of the Itsekiri people were already existing before Ginuwa's sojourn to those paths. What Ginuwa and descendants did was organize and unite various small, scattered fishing communities into a Kingdom under the crown of the Olu. I'm not ruling out the possibility of later migrants from Yoruba areas into the coastal areas of Itsekiri.

The Urhobo have an interesting perspective on this matter because Oghara people played host to Ginuwa on his way from Benin as Itsekiri history also confirms.

Again, Ode-Itsekiri, the traditional headquarters and seat of the Olu(until not long ago) was already inhabited before Ginuwa's party arrived. It is said that Itsekiri is the name of the most prominent man they met there who welcomed them hence their adopting the name. Ginuwa himself is said to have died at Ijala and was buried there, never reaching Ode-Itsekiri. You can subject these to further research.

Thanks for the contribution.

It would be very speculative to rule out the presence of earlier migrants in or around any settlement dominated by one ethnic nationality today. So ruling out earlier Yoruboid people may not be wise. But which studies show these exactly?

The current Olu of Warri Ikenwoli claimed less than two years ago that Ooni of Ife was his fore-father. Despite clear historical evidence that Prince Ginuwa left Benin given the title "Ogiame/Lord of the Seas". His ancestor can only be so through Benin monarchy that produced Prince Ginuwa.

It won't be long before "written evidence" begin to appear that the first Olu was a previously unrecorded son of Oranmiyan. A son he left in Warri after leaving Benin on the way to become the first Alafin of Oyo. Such a claim, by someone with many degree titles to his name, would be music to the ears of many. However dubious the scholarship might be. It might seem improbable now, but do not be surprised if it should happen.

Our SW friends believe they are the educated people who should decide the narrative for us down South. Something Edo people in particular have always rubbished each time. Including Oba Akenzua II leading Edo & Delta people to walk out of Western Region parliament in Ibadan over the intransigence of the Alake of Abeokuta back then. So nor be today.

Ooni of Ife also recently claimed that an Ife prince founded Lagos monarchy. Despite the relatively late vassalage of Lagos to Benin (until 1853) and Late Oba Oyekan & current Oba Akiolu of Lagos clearly stating that Lagos throne began with Ashipa & Prince Ado, both from Benin.

If we were a bit more serious in Nigeria, genetic studies would put an end to many speculations. Migration patterns can be shown in DNA markers. Which wave is older, and the mixing pattern over many centuries in certain areas. Black Americans are tracing their origins to specific villages and communities in Africa, from Guinea to Ghana to Senegambia to Nigeria. Centuries on.

Over the years when Benin & Ife arguments come up here on NL, I have volunteered to fund DNA tests for a dozen people each from Benin & Ife Royal families. To be carried out by reputable labs in Europe/abroad. If others volunteer too, and we can test hundreds of descendants on both sides, we can expect to get some useful results.

But obviously most people just want to argue & have no interest in finding out the truth once and for all.

As for Ode-Itsekiri or location, that changes. Everywhere. Nothing unusual about it. People move. For various reasons like finding more space, avoiding floods, a safer topography for defense, etc.

Even the famed coming of Oranmiyan to Benin, he never even entered Benin proper. Benin ruling nobility prevented him from getting anywhere close to the ancient ogiso palace, that is also the current palace. It took the great-great grandson of Oranmiyan called Oba Ewedo to conquer resisting nobles and move into Benin ancient ogiso palace.

As for Delta, you need to understand the dirty ethnic politics in the old Western Region (which Edo & Delta were part of then) that took place in the 1940s to early 1960s.

The premier of Western Region "elevated" Olu of Itsekiri to OLU of Warri. This was a time the entire area was called WARRI Province. This caused massive protest from Urhobo/Okpe/Isoko and other people. Because it seemed to indicate that the Olu was now the ruler of all of the province called Warri. It would be like calling one Ovie or Obi the "King of Delta" today. A compromise was reached to change name of the area to DELTA Province.

Of course the impression was now that Awolowo wanted to elevate the Yoruboid tribe in the area above others. These and other acts of undermining minority tribes in Old Western Region led to the referendum of 1963 that created Mid-West Region.

So publications that began from that era, placing Yoruba people in Delta long before Prince Ginuwa left Benin began to look suspicious. As part of the plan to cement Itsekhiri's as ancient people in the area.

Now with issues of land and oil wells/resources, the stakes are even higher still.

Many assertions touted as research work have to be carefully examined.

MaritzaNL:
Communication is the key to a successful relationship, though calling 3X a day is kinda much, like stalking.

My dear, spot on. If he calls too much, the girl will still complain of being monitored.

Communication is NOT about calling 100 times a day. It is about genuine openness & honesty. A woman cannot conceal her 20 previous abortions from her bf despite talking 20 times daily and call it communication.

The guy is even a youth corper o.

They girl has already started comparing OP with her brother-in-law. A very bad start.

Another guy that looks more promising currently has got her.

Maybe her visiting sister has finally convinced her to ditch the "useless corper who cannot even afford to call".

Some women can be very petty & myopic.

Moreover she's not economically dependent on OP. Lots of women can change their mind anytime if they do not rely on money from a guy. It seems she was never really in love with OP. She has been managing him. Call matter is just a convenient excuse.

If the lady's serious about leaving, OP should let her move on.

scholes0:
Maybe Ga people of Accra told him they come from Ketu in Benin republic (That is the origin of Ewe and Ga people via Ile Ife) and he thought they were meaning or meant Benin city in Naija

Ga people have no relationship with the Benin in nigeria.

Lol. Ga people came from your compound, they were your family members, bah?

My Ga inlaws have been making mistake about their origin since nearly thirty years, continue sir. BEDC & Ibadan press will be very proud of you.
Saddam Hussein, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Emperor of Japan, King of Lesotho, Queen Elizabeth and many more must also come from Ife. Or were cast down from Hell too.

This shows the extent to which the state has lost credibility.

Instead of communicating, the govt wallows in propaganda.

Does it mean Prof Adewole could not create teams of young health care professionals, health sciences students and youth corpers in affected and adjacent states to carry out these vaccinations?

Why the army? Are dane guns, koboko and AK47 needed to do the vaccination?

I forgot that even Aso Rock clinic has no syringes, hand gloves or even paracetamol. So how can MoH manage a vaccination programme?

Beehshorp:
Landlords are evil set of people.. They act Asif they are their tenants God

Not all landlords. What of troublesome tenants who go to court instead of just paying or pack out? Forget that. Some tenants are from hell. Build yours and rent out anyhow and you will get a taste of it.

Nothing justifies killing anyone. But this is manslaughter. An argument suddenly escalated. No pre-meditation. The victim was finally killed or neglected to die by the Nigerian govt. When something bad befalls a citizen, the state should come to his aid. But the govt failed him with a draconian law.

RIP.

When rape is not taken seriously in a society you get some people thinking like this boy.

Whether the lady comes and produces a drum full of "wetness" is immaterial.

The only deciding factor is did she consent to the sexual act?

Imagine a married lady who sees her hubby every 4 weeks due to his job taking him away from home. Now armed robbers invade her house and forcefully penetrate her. She might come multiple times but fact is that she was violated. No excuses.

Homeboiy:
Not a new thing nah


I could remember when I was 6_months old

My dad use to bath me every night

At 6 months and you remember?

Yet no discoveries to beat Einstein & Isaac Newton to your name till now?

Ifakiland:
Broke ass biitch....u still have the nerves to threaten to break up, please break up fast and move on Abeg.....help his life and move on....mr eazi doesn't have two head....may God never bring a broke gf like u into my life o....#spits#

Lol.

Maybe the only reason she began dating him is because he's comfortable. Now money is not rolling as she hoped. Love never played any role.
It seems for OP the equation is simple: Money = Love. Without getting money she wants to break up.

Most "love" scenarios in 9ja have nothing to do with love. Mostly a woman wants to just be married, carry her economic load on a man's head, eager to just leave family home, etc.

A whole lot of ladies from poor/modest homes that have never done a day's work want to begin life in a duplex/mansion with a garage full of choice cars, housemaid, sh*t load of money, etc.

From my observation and discussions, some married women secretly accept money and gifts from ex-boyfriends & male friends WITHOUT their hubby knowing. They say it is totally harmless.

The hubby works hard and provides, but some women cannot manage & just want more. From anywhere.

In the OP scenario, some of our typical 9ja women come up with funny stuff like: shebi he sleeps with her he should assist her na, the lady you bang like no tomorrow, you cannot even help her, very stingy man who wants to f*ck for free, yada yada yada. They make it sound like we're talking about a brothel transaction.

No boyfriend owes you any money.

After, spending lots of money on a gf and she moves to the next man with more money, if you come here to rant, it is the same women who will call the man mugu, jjc, useless guy, trying to buy love with money etc.

fabulous85:
Am I the only one that feel listing the names of all her ex is disrespectful to her Fiance.

Disrespectful?

It is a sackable offence o. Now the whole world knows you have played wife to half the town. Why should I be the mumu to come pay dowry? How can I be sure she used condom with all these guys Or did not do abortion for each of them too?

curvilicious:
She is such a beau

Belle sir.

Beau for male.

Belle for female.

Both French used in English.

Kikikikikiki!

Funny.
Eye don clear.

Yanga nor make am again.

supereagle:
The back is black and the chest grey like colour. It is nocturnal and not arboreal.

Mamba is not black. Only its mouth is black. Grey to dark brown. No real evidence of sighting in Nigeria. Even the case in Senegal is doubted.

Hmm complex case.
But why Ireland? The drive system is different to 9ja. Or she buys from continental Europe?

Anyway you may never get the full money. Maybe piecemeal if lucky.

But the money must have been transferred from your dad's account to the lady's or her hubby's in 9ja.

If so recorded conversion admitting taking the money and bank transfer record would be enough evidence.

It could end up as a fraud case.

Still available?

Are people surprised? Bubu regime is extremely corrupt. No contest.

supereagle:
Mamba is common in Yoruba land, it called Igbadu, the very long one like this is called Igbadu aberewo. I have killed them several times with wire trap.

Which colour are they? Nocturnal or diurnal? Identified by zoologists as such?
The green arboreal mamba is different from black mamba. So which mamba are you referring to?

Tednersy:
Mbok. So I am not even qualified to apply for this job. Na wa o. Let me just become a runs girl. I am tired.

Awwww. It is well dear.

You can do even better than this job advertised her. Just believe.

Stormyweather:
if it attacked the guy with spit then it's not a mamba. I may be wrong but there's just one snake that spits and that's the spiting cobra. The rest are just speculations and if it's a mamba. It's not a black mamba if not....none of you will be writing this story. Trust me.
A black mamba is called black because of its black mouth not it's color. The mouth when opened is pitch black.
At first glance I thought it was a cobra but the head says otherwise. Maybe cos it has been broken.

Yep.

Black mamba is not even common in 9ja. Its not even common in West Africa. But deadly in East to Southern Africa. It is even grey to dark brown in colour. Because mamba and cobra are of same family, they can be mistaken for each other sometimes. A full grown mamba can form a hood, albeit narrower, like a cobra. Which it displays when threatened. More aggressive and deadlier than a cobra though.

Adaumunocha:
Its better to keep your dark secrets to yourself.

Yep!

Anything heard by more than two ears is no more a secret. Worse even if the surplus ears belong to a woman.

fratermathy:
Maybe the spelling is confusing you. The pronunciation is aarmeehbooor. So though it is spelt as Amevbo, it is pronounced as Amebo.

Let's not argue on who owns the word. It's not necessary. The Op's position is on how it became popular, not that the Urhobos have a patent to the word.

And of course, etymology may be relative, even when words have the same meaning, pronunciation and orthography. I can argue that "Omo" is an Urhobo word and still be as correct or as wrong as one who argues it is a Yoruba word.

Benin word Amwebo or other Edoid language variations in Urhobo, Esan or Isoko are similar. For it to transcend these languages, it must have been present for a very long time, pre-emigration period. Of course we cannot be now sure exactly how the proto-word sounded long ago. But it would be very close to what we have now.

9ja is a funny and divided place now that everyone wants to claim supremacy. Yoruba & Edoid languages have shared a "Lebensraum" for millenia and are all Kwa/Niger-Congo languages. Therefore linguistically & philologically, no wonder that they share many things in common.

step1:
Can we know where you got this information ? Because my very good friend is from Accra and a royal household. Why are you Benin people like this ?

Which royal household? Which kingdom? How old is "your very good royal friend?". What did he tell you about his origin? Better still what position in the royal house has he?
My inlaws are Ga people. Would they lie to me 25 to 30 years ago?

I guess you will also deny that Gnasingbe Eyadema of Togo sought his origins to Edo people, precisely Esan. Who were very famed warriors in Benin army then.
Some of you have alao denied that Dahomey was renamed Republic of Benin in appreciation of their affinity with us. That it was only name because of Bight of Benin.

Why then did Kerekou seek Oba of Benin's permission to use that name?

I know Yoruba people have a dedicated strategy against anything Benin. The Benin Empire Denial Centre (BEDC) that sprouted from Ibadan press. We saw that and left Western region in a democratic referendum in 1963.

Mr Friend of Royalty, even Lagos here that its relationship with Benin is well known and even acknowledged by LSG, majority of Yoruba still claim that Benin never played any part in Lagos. Not even the Island. Ado/Esikpa(Asipa) known to be Benin have been denied by many Yoruba people.

Ooni of Ife even claimed Lagos was founded by Ife prince.

Despite Oba Kosoko paying tribute to Benin until 1853.

So how would you expect some people in Ghana far removed from Nigeria, perhaps never even listened to his elders to know any better?

In Benin we are not seeking anyone's acceptance or confirmation. History is there. People can deny, twist or do what they like. Like our SW people who think modern population size is equal to historical supremacy & monopoly over the narrative.

I have been doing what I am doing what I doing now for years here on NL. With Yoruba flooding in with misplaced sense of ITK to show how "educated" they are. And quote books written by their own people. None make any impression on me. Check all submissions here on NL dating years back.

By the way I grew up in a household where writing, history, linguistics, culture, journalism was part of life. I began sneaking to read lecture notes left on the table as a kid. I was reading notes before university students get them in their lectures.

[quote author=step1 post=61309713].

Opharhe:
you're right to a large extent. There are many words that are still common to nearly all languages in the Edoid linguistic family. I believe many of our ancestors had a common ancestry or origin but we shouldn't make the mistake of thinking all Urhobo tribes trace their migratory history from Benin because the migratory patterns were not one-way or definite just as Urhobo like most other ethnic groups are actually a people of diverse origins.

That said, with available evidences, we can safely conclude that we have a common stock to a large extent at least.
Thanks for the enlightening contribution. I like the way you gave linguistic similarities in names.
Welldone.

Thank you.

Sure, no ethnic entity is entirely homogeneous. People have to migrate from somewhere and try to form a new identity wherever they find themselves.
Now think of it. A land that is already populated by one group of people will only ever allow a smaller group that can be assimilated to join them. Unless they are conquered. Or the larger group is not seen as a threat. Rare historically. The waves of migrants who formed Urhobo culture were those of Benin area people. With minor other immigrants from elsewhere.
Take the case of Itsekiri.

When Prince Ginuwa left Benin during the reign of his father Oba Olua of Benin (1475-1480), he left with a replica of the royal court of Benin. With junior sons of Benin Chiefs as his courtiers. They are still the core of Warri royal family & aristocracy till now. Waves of Ijebu & Eastern Yoruba later moved to the area and supplanted much of Benin language there. There were lots of wars within Yoruba land and with their neighbours too. So migration waves are easy to understand. By now Benin had become more organised beginning in 1440 with Oba Ewuare I. With able bodied men needed for wars of expansion.

So unlike Urhobo who could migrate more easily in the pre-imperial times, just leaving had become more difficult. With body tattoos (Iwu), facial tribal marks now used to identify Benin/Edo people. This could explain why waves of migrants from Benin could not join Ginuwa. So trickling waves of Yoruba origin people became the main population.

In discussions with Ga people of Osu/Accra area of Ghana about their Benin origin, surprisingly most were aware of it. Even Ga people in the West/diaspora over 20 years back. But about 25% said they only migrated through Benin on their way from Sudan, Egypt or wherever.

In the same way, Benin itself has a lot of migrants who are now bona fide Benin people. From everywhere: Yorubaland, Ijaw, Igalla, Igbo, etc. It is only homogeneous in shared/dominant culture, not necessarily in ethnic origin or genetics. pretty much same with most tribes and nations.

The current Iyase of Benin, who is the traditional prime minster and second in power the the Oba is an Urhobo origin man. Since considering history, an Urhobo man is not to be even considered a stranger in Benin.

I find it really interesting to hear in Urhobo language, words that very old (like over 85 years old, all now late) Benin people used around 30 years ago. Words that are not heard frequently in Benin language now. Urhobo & other Edoid languages could become major linguistic repositories of the ancient common language.

Very disgustingly cruel.

ok

So if he cannot ensure that the clinic in his own residence works, how can he ensure that the economy, our federal hospitals, schools, MDAs, infrastructure and other complex bodies in the country work?

After all he cannot be all over the country at every point.

Did Jonathan have magic teleporting machine to be everywhere when he was president? Why was he blamed for Boko created by Northern elite?

Opharhe:
Avwebọ (or Amebọ as it's pronounced in some parts) is an Urhobo word meaning favorite wife in a polygamous home, the least favorite being referred to as 'Avweorọvwe'.

In Urhobo culture, where polygamy was common before Christianity, the favorite wife (Avwebo) of a homestead, is loved and desired by her husband for various reasons such as beauty, submissiveness, good culinary skills or other desires qualities.

The Avwebo was looked up to not just by the husband but by the extended family and even the community, with high expectations. It was her duty to ensure that everything is in place for the husband and she was expected to be friendly with her husband's family, friends and community and try not to fall out of favour with them.

Due to the high social expectations invested in her, such a woman would normally always go out of her way to try to please everybody with the husband at the helm. Some of the things an 'Avwebo' would normally do more than the others apart from spending more nights with the man of the house include washing Oga's clothes, cooking most times, being in charge of the hospitality for oga's guests, sharing thoughts with the Husband etc. Hence she has the ears of the man of the house and will be the first to report

whatever must have transpired in the compound or community while hubby was away including the misdeeds of her mate's children.

'Avwebo' was also fond of breaking the news first and telling people around the negative things she must have heard about them from others in her efforts to be in their good books.

Why "Amebo" for gossip in Nigeria parlance?

The Urhobo people metaphorically do refer to people especially females with a holier-than-thou- attitude or those who will always talk about everything that happens, sometimes to the point of exaggeration as 'avwebo'. As a result of this, other Nigerians started using the word too when referring to a notorious gossips and the name spread gradually starting from Lagos.

Peter Ikogho also gave an interesting account about this matter in an earlier post.

"... Coming to Amebo being refered to as a Gossip is a fallout of the role played by Veteran Actress Mrs Ibidun Allison in the now long rested Soap Opera/Drama series -The Village Headmaster(NTA Series) of the middle 1960s up to early 1980s - where in her effort to please everyone in the Community became a gossip/local News carrier."

'Amebo' is more common as against the 'Avwebo' mostly due to the inability of most Nigerians, non Urhobo or Edo speakers to pronounce some consonants like 'vw/vb', replacing it with 'm', though some Urhobo groups pronounce 'Amebo' in their dialect.

Dude you try. But Amwenbo is a very ancient Benin word for Iyale. Mother of house or senior wife. But it can also just be favourite/beloved wife. It changed in Urhobo a bit as they moved from Benin area around 600 years ago. Pretty much like osa became osia for chimpanzee. Ekpekpeye became Ikpukpuyeke for duck. Ukhuere became uwhere (sugar cane), Ogie became ovie. Omokhuo became omote, etc. Words like Efe(wealth), igho (money) Oghene (God) remain pretty much same.

Edoid languages like Benin, Urhobo, Esan, Afemai, Degema, Isoko all retain many ancient parent words.

Our warnings fell on deaf ears during election 2015. We told them there is no Tunde Idiagbon to do all the work for Buhari.

But we were called Tanoids.

6 more years to go.

Make Una enjoy the change o.

Nice.

Abeg tell us where we go come chop rice o.

twentyk:
Sadly the white men came and subjugated us,use our destiny and we live by their set standards and terms... We are forever in their mercy..till date they still nd will forever be our master,they gave us the Gods to worship, education, everything.....

The worst part is we can't do anything about it...every means to emancipate ourselves have been checked by these guys....every means of production have been colonized, monopolized in their favor...

Sad...

Nna ehh.

Most are very uninformed despite good education. Those that are good are just naturally good. But most just obey the law that are strongly enforced. So they conceal their true bad feelings towards Africans most times. But they still manifest in subtle ways in their attitude.

spartoo:
How is she ur sister? Are you related by anything?

If she was held on fraud charges, no more sister o. Success has a multitude of brothers, sisters, cousins, friends, etc.