₦airaland Forum

shdemidemi:
Joni Earickson Tada's testimony is such a unique one that compels one to reevaluate ones appreciation of God for His mercies regardless of how bad, visible and real what we call problems may seem.

I had searched vigorously for this video after I came across it a while back at a christian conference I attended in the early part of the year.
Thank you so much OP for bringing up this life changing Job-like testimony here.

My dear brother, how bodi is?
What is the Job-like part and what is the Job-like testimony part too? (i.e. in "life changing Job-like testimony her'')

Didnt know that Joni Eareckson Tada was old enough to have met with Kathryn Kuhlman before she died
- Kathryn Kuhlman was Benny Hinn's mentor

shdemidemi, no offense meant, no doubt Joni Eareckson Tada has a life changing and strong personal testimony, dashed hopes and experiences just as like Justin Peters but I am trying to understand the similarities and parallel to Job in the manner you've suggested or called attention to indirectly there
- Joni Eareckson Tada wasnt born quadriplegic, she was an avid and active outdoor sports person before becoming quadriplegic. She became quadriplegic after jumping into water but misjudged the depth of the shallow water before the jump.

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F17: OBTAINING PECUNIARY ADVANTAGE BY DECEPTION[/size]

The LORD makes some poor and others rich; he brings some down and lifts others up.
- 1 Samuel 2:7 NLT

Pecuniary is anything that has to do with money, relating to money or consisting of money, so then, obtaining pecuniary advantage(s) by deception, simply implies obtaining monetary advantage(s) or getting financial advantage(s) by deception

Obtaining pecuniary advantage(s) by deception, is one of the best kept secret of a WoF indoctrinated/influenced set-up
It is acquiring of money, wealth or riches, for personal gain, through lies, fantasy and psychobabble (i.e. using psychology and human wisdom to wrest money from their members - © trustman)

WoF jihadists wouldn't admit this fact without a struggle but obtaining financial advantage(s) by deception is the numero uno means most WoFist or WoFtrepreneurs use to feather their nests, grow their bank accounts and create wealth getting rich off God’s own people

Obtaining financial advantage(s) by deception is carried out by hook or by crook and be not bothered with morality or conscience when committing it

Don't take this the wrong way. The perpetrators are no better than crooks, only privileged to be armed with the holy book, using scripture(s) for a licence to kill, steal or destroy and living like kings on other people’s money.

Funny and weird thing is, 9 out of 10 WoFists or WoFtrepreneurs all started out virtually flat out broke, barely had two bald pennies to rub together, then boom, all of a sudden the good life

Have any ever wondered how some WoFists or WoFtrepreneurs set up ministries with no physical congregation or without on-the-ground members but still manage to afford jets, drive luxurious cars, put on designer wears, sport fat bulky rings, live in high gated electric barbed-wire fenced up palatial residences etc?

WoFists or WoFtrepreneurs will prance the stage and declare they are wealthy and have no need or do not need the unsuspecting listener/hearer's money
WoFists or WoFtrepreneurs boast that they are rich, are already made and achieved the trappings of wealth from tapping into the anointing, activating faith and receiving blessings thereafter.
They talk with excessive pride and self-satisfaction about how rich they are and how they never can be broke again.

WoFtrepreneurs say they are rich and would never be broke ever again, that they are living proofs, showing beyond doubt that one can have money or make money by following the prosperity formula (e.g. sowing "seed" into: another WoFtrepreneur's life, into ministries, into a MoG etc) to get rich.
For this reason, they parade themselves as rich, flaunt their prosperity or put on a show, to get the admiration and attention of the unsuspecting and IMPLYING that the the unsuspecting too can get rich

Strutting on the pulpit or altar before God and men boasting about being so rich and all compared to others, is virtually the same as devilish arrogance

WoFtrepreneurs fuel by their greed, ego, love of money and pursuit of wealth, leave out that it’s a sham prosperity and lie they are "selling".

At least everyone knew that Judas was dipping his fingers into the money-bag and stealing out of the treasury,
the sad reality is that not all know, that WoFtrepreneurs are are obtaining money by deception from God’s people.
Many children of God struggle with this exposé and many sons of God do not want believe or know this exposé, but this is dealing with the difficulty and rising to the challenge of being our brothers and sisters, warning them by taking off the balaclavas worn by WoFtrepreneurs.

Well this exposé will not only remove the balaclavas but will also lift the lid and reveal how WoFtrepreneurs get rich with money obtained from unsuspecting sheeple, members, listeners or onlookers, how WoFtrepreneurs get rich by cunning practices and craftiness to feed their greed and fund their luxurious lifestyles.

Most WoFtrepreneurs did not become rich or wealthy by following any prosperity formula, instead they became wealthy by building up a group of people (i.e. large membership) SEDUCED into passionately believing the prosperity formula and then sell prosperity formula promoting products, schemes etcetera to the unsuspecting members, listeners or onlookers.

In order for this exposé to sink in and for the need to understand this pattern, will repeat that most WoFtrepreneurs did not become rich early on, from investing in real estates, by dabbling into business ventures etc, they became rich by selling and hyping prosperity formula-promoting books, tapes/VHS/CD/DVDs, fee paying motivation seminars, fee paying self-help conferences, fee paying singles classes etcetera to unsuspecting, captured and cajoled prosperity formula believers.

This same pattern is practiced some churches and by Christian leaders using the prosperity formula and playing well the prosperity gospel game. Some churches are now into another mutation or variant of the prosperity formula which is birthday gift extortion
- the pawns in the game and the captive market are the unsuspecting church members or congregation.

Here are some of the exposé and/or secrets WoFtrepreneurs definitely do not want others to know, knowing these secrets will make one understand the general pattern behind the WoFtrepreneurs tricks

It is a perfected craft that WoFtrepreneurs use to transfer money out of unsuspecting sheeple's pockets into their pockets.

Why WoFtrepreneurs or prosperity preachers always suggest or hint that one "plant seed in the soil of the WoFtrepreneurs or prosperity preachers' garden" is that WoFtrepreneurs or prosperity preachers want ones money-seed to make them, the WoFtrepreneurs or prosperity preachers, rich or prosperous.

WoFtrepreneurs achieve this, by telling countless stories of seed faith miracles. This all done to get the unsuspected fired up and sow their best "seed" after which the "seed" (i.e. money) is collected by the WoFtrepreneurs, and off to the bank vaults they go.

The poor desperate giver then goes home expecting a supernatural harvest of that seed that never comes. The fact is though, that the WoFtrepreneur(s) is booking personal private jet(s), a Caribbean Islands cruise, Harley-Davidson bikes, golf course excursion/trip, building projects in home town etcetera and the unsuspecting members, listeners etc are still in need.

If the above stories of seed faith miracles doesnt work, then WoFtrepreneurs will hire fellow WoFtrepreneurs and/or pay experts to teach in their gathering, this to pick at the guilt of the unsuspecting members, listeners or onlookers and manipulate them into giving out their seed-money

The reason why the "poor desperate giver then goes home expecting a supernatural harvest of that seed that never comes" is because the prosperity formula does not work as the WoFtrepreneurs teach, for they, the WoFtrepreneurs teach it from an incorrect viewpoint, for wrong, selfish and ulterior motives.

Giving the wrong and deceptive impression that giving seed-money is what gives financial rewards or paying tithes etcetera is what blocks or prevents spiritual punishments(s) is outright misleading and bad when actually giving advice that money taken and invested in genuine works of God (e.g. James 1:27 etcetera) is part of what makes one rich and prosperous, is on point and good.

God is not against wealth and prosperity. No, don't get this twisted, it's not wrong to be rich or to have money, but it is wrong for money to have one or to have signatures like, "Location: Where the money is".

There are no short cuts to riches or wealth, no quick turnaround, no magic etcetera and definitely no such thing banded out to be prosperity formula, as according Deuteronomy 8:17-18, stating paraphrased below:

Otherwise, you may say in your heart. You may say to yourself, "My power and the strength of my hands have produced this wealth for me.
Remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth or power to get wealth.

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy:
- John 10:10a KJ Bible

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F17: OBTAINING PECUNIARY ADVANTAGE BY DECEPTION[/size]
I REST MY CASE ON F17, FOR NOW.

mbaemeka:
So many words, nothing said.

Meanwhile, I am here laughing at the Palongo dancers.

^^^
Yinmu, yeye de smell
What you going to do at the Atilogwu dancers?
Cackle?

trustman:
- the post original here removed -

---

As recently as this October 2014 news reports carried the warning of the Chairman of the Lagos chapter of Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria (PFN), warning that the body will not hesitate to separate itself from any church leader within the body who involves in extra-biblical practices for the purposes of making pecuniary gains.

This goes on to show that the issue of obtaining pecuniary advantage(s) by deception is very much around with us.

In the said report the PFN Chairman warned pastors against using psychology and human wisdom to wrest money from their members, he said the time had come for the body to act fast against any pastor that indulges in such practice.

---

- the post original here removed -

It's no secret naija politicians read Nairaland Politic forum incognito
so the jokingly implying that the PFN Chairman too "must have been reading the WoF thread" LOL
- it's about time those in the "inside" come clean, admit the rot and repent of it

Bidam:
The truth is you can't make rules for me by warning me even if i am to eat meat offered to idols.
That is my point. Can you point to any post of mine where i warned a christian to tithe.
Antithers are always the folks opening threads all over this forum to attack peoples liberty to tithe.

LOL
- typical of a tithe lobbyist, thinking about rules, mistaking need to know information for "rules"

Gombs:
My man, good morning. Well I quite agree with most of your write ups, especially folks being threatened from the pulpit and sometimes forced to tithe. Notwithstanding, I also believe your warning and stop sign illustration are almost same thing.

A brother who's known and loved tithing maybe from experiences cannot be warned to stop, neither will want to stop. With further warning and stop signs, you only make yourself an entity trying to hack down his liberty to tithe.

Bidam:
Good observation. The same way they accuse tithers of legalism is the same they legalistically argue against the tithe. I hope he sees it that way.

I know you arent familiar with the Highway Code that much, repeat what you said in a driving licence test that "warning and stop sign illustration are almost same thing" is a guaranteed failure to obtain the driving licence

Dont where or how Gombs came about " warned to stop"
Who is warning to stop?
- there is a BIG difference between "warning to stop" and "warning of the unneccesity of tithing (i.e. warned to avoid falling into the trap of tithe legalism)"

Legalism is dangerous, hope Bidam sees it that way and that Christians be warned to avoid falling into the trap of tithe legalism

No one has stopped anyone from tithing except than offer warning(s) of the unneccesity of tithing
No one has put guns to anyone's head to stop them from tithing.
As yall support and advocate the right to tithe, same, yall let be the right of/for others to warn of the unneccesity of tithing

mbaemeka:
This is even more Gibberisher than the previous post.

Let me pace myself a bit with you since you are not as quick-witted as I had overestimated you to be.

If I was to tell you instances of Tetraplegics and Palsy sufferers who got healed instantly by the anointing of God, you would have disbelieved them even if I provided videos for you. Secondly, your incredulity is not limited to the Pastor I would have referred you to: it encompasses even many others abroad and ahome (on earth and in heaven for e.g Kenneth Hagin). So it made absolutely no sense for me to honor your questions with the sort of reply you were craving for. Lastly, you made a fallacy of Generalizing Hastily by making it seem like 'ALL' Healing school ministers avoided patients with the conditions above when you have NEVER attended any of the healing schools to corroborate such a statement. The same way you asserted that Christopher Columbus helped prove Galileos discoveries right even when Columbus had died before Galileo was born. I am sure you realise you are a tad too whimsical in your responses and they have always come back to bite you where the sun doesn't shine.

Now, let it be that none of the WOF or WOF related ministers I know have healed anyone suffering from the 2 conditions you mentioned. Let it be that the testimonies they have were all stage-managed. You who believes in Yahweh that heals, can you provide any evidences to back that claim or is it just hot-air (again) ? I.e are you just throwing the I-believe-Yahweh-can-heal-those-things line, even when you don't really believe?

PS: I ignored all your nonsense about verbatim quotes and the likes. You were dishonest enough to refuse to admit your Eve-serpent-sex, Kenneth Hagin-Apostle, Tower of Babel was mythical goof (s) so I don't expect you to take the humble route and keep mum now. And you have the temerity to call someone incorrigible and wallowing in ignorance? Hahahahahahaha!

You wouldn't recognise "Gibberish", if you read it. At this rate, you're wearing the poor "Gibberish" word thin
You wouldn't know what "Gibberish" is if it walked up to you and bite you on the bum
What you going to do, what's going to happen when you wear it thin-vanishing in to the air
- you must have just learnt the word, that's why you take to it like a shine, it's new on you LOL

Young man, if you must know, your words are empty and all that's coming out of your mouth is hot air
You're nothing worse than a disingenious windbag
Why does WoF deserve a windbag like this representing it?

As a matter of gfact, you really need to shut up for a bit because with all that diarrhea of the mouth, you still aren't coherent as you think you are or be intelligent as you like to make out.
You will not shut up, which typically is a cover for your own shortcomings, inferiority complex and inadequacy(ies)
- Running dystentry, as he's talking shite

Aren't you sick of regurgitation, repeating the same thing on and on, behaving like a whinning or nagging old hag?

You sure would like to know about "Eve-serpent-sex" Don't you? LOL
You sure would like to know about the "Kenneth Hagin-Apostle" angle. Don't you? LOL
- "...Omniscience is not required for that. Simple deductive reasoning would do" © nlMediator
You sure would like to know about the "Tower of Babel" slant. Don't you? LOL

Well what of thinking about Pearls and Pigs?
- over your head and another candidate for your favourite word; "Gibberish" LOL

If you may know, young man, I have the temerity to call you, mbaemeka, incorrigible and wallowing in ignorance. Hahahahahahaha!
Yes, I do because you repeatedly dont take to advice to back up your allegations with proof (i.e. verbatim or the actual quotes)

You know why you are unable back your posts with quotes?
It is because if/when you do, you will fall flat on your face and fail in an embarrassingly epic way

Simple questions asked, especially Q2, and he is going on la-la land (i.e Lastly, you made a fallacy of Generalizing Hastily by making it seem like 'ALL' Healing school ministers avoided patients with the conditions above when you have NEVER attended any of the healing schools to corroborate such a statement)
The questions asked were the below:
Q1) Why are "healing" schools FULL of genuinely and undisputedly crippled wheelchair-ridden people who NEVER GET HEALED?
Q2) Why is cerebral palsy sufferer(s) turned away from approaching "healing" pastor(s) on stage at "healing" school(s)?

I stand by and have ALWAYS stood by whatever I post which is why I ALWAYS BOLDLY ask for verbatim or quotations to back up any raised trumped up charges and allegations
- I will go eyeball-to-eyeball, face-to-face, head-on, mano a mano, one-on-one, toe-to-toe with ten of you put together on anything I post

I am not frightened to speak on issues I understand nor apologetic of any of my posts. I always quote-reference posts I comment or remark on

No matter how much you elbow, spit, poke, scratch, bite, stab, head butt and prod, for the likes of youse, silence is often the best thing to say.

BabaGnoni:
https://s29.postimg.org/j11nc9bgn/stop_and_warning_sign.jpg

I know you didnt drive down to the IPPC CONFERENCE but still believe you are familiar with and/or understand the above Highway Code signs
- one is a prohibition/order sign the other is a warning sign

As far as I know, no one as in, not WinsomeX, Candour, Shdemidemi, trustman and the rest of the crew have given the first sign but rather it has been a case of waving or flagging the second sign (i.e. the Warning sign)

So now Gombs, should one encourage a Christian to WARN about tithing
If Yes, why discourage a Christian to WARN on tithing then?. Why STOPPING a Christian to give WARNING(s) on tithing?

Gombs:
You can warn a Christian to stop tithing iF AND ONLY IF you have a scripture condeming tithing in its entirety. Until then, you have no right or set of rights, jurisdiction either comically, morally, theologically or arbitrarily to try and manipulate, conjure, coerce and/or lie to anyone to STOP or WARN them about paying their tithes.

BabaGnoni:
^^^
I give up. Facepalm. SMH

Gombs:
Wise choice buddy! You cannot blockbthe sun with one finger. Go and sin no more, your sins are forgiven you.

You obviously are not very familiar with the Highway Code signs
Warning sign is not a Stop sign and vice versa.
- Stop sign is an Order. Warning sign is what it says on the tin or label, a Warning (i.e. as in, be informed, be alert, be careful, be aware etcetera)

I had never CONDEMNED tithing but when opportune I've always intimated any that will listen of the higher law and warned of the unnecessity of tithing
- any act of choosing between to or not to is entirely up to the concerned after obtaining the information

Gombs, what I DETEST & CONDEMN is/are the teaching(s) that put fear into tithe-defaulter(s), tithe-abstainers, tithe-agnostics etcetera
What I dislike intensely and shrink from are people using "right or set of rights, jurisdiction either comically, morally, theologically or arbitrarily to try and manipulate, conjure, coerce and/or lie to anyone to paying their tithes"

No offense but you sounded like a baby in a pram crying when a toy was taken off him when you posted "You can warn a Christian to stop tithing iF AND ONLY IF you have a scripture condeming tithing in its entirety. Until then, you have no right or set of rights, jurisdiction either comically, morally, theologically or arbitrarily to try and manipulate, conjure, coerce and/or lie to anyone to STOP or WARN them about paying their tithes"

As for you saying "Wise choice buddy! You cannot block the sun with one finger. Go and sin no more, your sins are forgiven you."

Gombs, it wasn't a wise choice situation because I actually gave up on you and stopped hoping you'll see the light from the sun blocked with one finger
- I have repented of giving up on you, as everybody deserves another chance

Let's say like, the God of another chance(s) I too believe, we all deserve a second, third, fourth up to nth chance to get things right
Gombs, I believe in your ability to change and rise above tithe-ignorances and present or past tithe teaching mistakes

Gombs:
You can warn a Christian to stop tithing iF AND ONLY IF you have a scripture condeming tithing in its entirety. Until then, you have no right or set of rights, jurisdiction either comically, morally, theologically or arbitrarily to try and manipulate, conjure, coerce and/or lie to anyone to STOP or WARN them about paying their tithes.

^^^
I give up. Facepalm. SMH

Gombs:
No, they can't!

My turn! Should one encourage a Christian to stop tithing? If yes, why?

vooks:
No they should not. Why would you discourage tithing?
You should, if anything, try to understand their motivation.

If I told you am selling all my properties and giving it to your church, would you as my pastor not be interested to know why am doing it? What if I told you am selling all because the Lord is coming back in the next 6 months? Would you take it?

Gombs:
Ah! Finally a breakthrough. Cc: WinsomeX, Candour, Shedemidemi, babagnoni, mand the rest of the crew. Come and take notes o

https://s29.postimg.org/j11nc9bgn/stop_and_warning_sign.jpg

I know you didnt drive down to the IPPC CONFERENCE but still believe you are familiar with and/or understand the above Highway Code signs
- one is a prohibition/order sign the other is a warning sign

As far as I know, no one as in, not WinsomeX, Candour, Shdemidemi, trustman and the rest of the crew have given the first sign but rather it has been a case of waving or flagging the second sign (i.e. the Warning sign)

So now Gombs, should one encourage a Christian to WARN about tithing
If Yes, why discourage a Christian to WARN on tithing then?. Why STOPPING a Christian to give WARNING(s) on tithing?

mbaemeka:
^^^ Imma need a gibberish interpreting software to read this.

All in a bid to sound esoteric or is it because I reminded you of your medical-science-replacing-greater-works-than-these-shall-ye-do prophecy?

Please read between the lines concerning Vooks post and hide your egghead in shame. Or better still create a new moniker to escape this one. I would go easy on you this time around because I am in a good mood. For the record though, you spoke OP (I would add 'as usual' here)

Now concerning your questions I said everyone is fake to you because your grouse is not with Chris Oyakhilome, Kumuyi, Hagin, Oyedepo etc. Your issue is with unbelief and I can prove it.

Let us assume that all the so-called faith healers that you feel I am affiliated to are fake. Let us also assume that you believe God still heals people. Now can you show me evidences that tetraplegics and Palsy sufferers have received this healing from God- I mean the God of the bible, and if/WHEN you can't, can we also conclude that you do not believe in healings but only aver so to substantiate your criticism and hatred for the faith healers?

PS: Someone tossed a stick into a pack of dogs. The one that got hit barked the loudest. But I'm sleep though...

"Imma need a gibberish interpreting software" indeed
- You retreat into a world of fantasy and self-delusion a lot when the truth stares you in face, don't worry, this time, blame it on been sleepyhead

Don't be silly, What is esoteric about sharing a for-you-information (i.e. FYI) or you prefer the need-to-know-information be hidden or hoarded?
- it isn't the first time and by God's grace, it certainly wouldn't be my last sharing it.

I don't know you from Adam, nor know you from a previous life, so I still don't understand your hardened and stubborn fixation with changing monickers

You're incorrigible, wont learn from correction. How many times have you got to be advised to back up your allegation and/or trumped-up charges.
Show the original quotes for the following:
#1) "medical-science-replacing-greater-works-than-these-shall-ye-do prophecy"
#2) "everyone is fake to you because your grouse is not with Chris Oyakhilome, Kumuyi, Hagin, Oyedepo etc."

Look, that's my gauntlet, throw down on the floor
Prove "issue is with unbelief and I can prove it"

Young man you will do yourself a world of good, if you can just provide unedited versions of quotations to backed up ALL your allegations

I wonder how people like you get the liver to do this, make incriminating statements about other posters without providing evidence(s) or backing it up with the original quotes

Who are all the so-called faith healers that you are affiliated to, fake or not fake?

Yahweh is our Healer, so mbaemeka do me the honours, as I would very much love to see the original quotation relating to or the entire post pertaining to "Let us also assume that you believe God still heals people"

Criticism and hatred for the faith healers ke?
mbaemeka, there is a thin line between faith healers and "faith healers"

PS: a lamb and a pig fall into the same dirty, oozing muddy ditch,
The pig rolls about, wallowing in and enjoying the mud, but the lamb cries and gets out
The pig loves to get dirty and loves mud
so the pig is happy to stay perpetually in the mud ditch

Image123:
i don't have a boat. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe, Gnoni.

What of naming it and claiming it? You are a learner...
Don't let WoF police hear or catch you ooo LOL

Image123:
In other words, you want me to teach you what to say a la candour stylee?

Whatever floats your boat

Image123:
Wetin i talk, wetin you talk?
Did vooks just do the "Name it claim it" world famous(according to that u people's thread success dreams)?

"I can't make sense of what you typed. Mind using plainer english? Be presentable. Be original" - © Gombs

Gombs:
See who's talking! The snake charmer himself

LordReed is not a minor and oh please outgrow these puerile remarks
- the cheshire cat grin doesn't even suit you

Gombs:
I can't make sense of what you typed. Mind using plainer english? Be presentable. Be original

I wonder how a light-hearted jokingly "Keep quiet there..." got turned into an opportunity for another ad hominem or slagging a third party. SMH

Image123:
Yes oh brother, name it claim it. When they do it, its nothing.
When others do it, its WoF and heretic. They know not, neither do they understand.

Would you put a defective and loaded gun into the hands of a minor?
This is what WoF indoctrination(s) does and it leads many impressionable, unsuspecting, gullible, easily influenced, vulnerable old & young, into debts, bankruptcy, worse off financial mess, less prosperous, unfulfilled expectations etcetera
Only a wicked lying through their teeth person will not acknowledge this

Gombs:
Bring on your best shot...
remember to bring along your lap dog... you know now, the one who sold his honour for a morsel of eba.
By the way, aint gifs cool?

Gombs, you better learn some decorum and buy some toothpaste whilst at it.
I hate to say this Gombs, young bucks wont understand, that's all I'll say

Nah, no way. The amazing anointing reeking holy jacket is ice, it is cooler.
- What came on Benny Hinn there? What is going on in there?

mbaemeka:
My challenge in answering these questions is that everyone is fake to you.
But for the sake of posterity this claim even though rhetorical, is as flimsy as the one about Medical science being the fulfilment of "Greater than these shall ye do".
Shebi you remember who made that claim?

vooks:
Escapist is throwing numbers in a doctrinal debate.
False religions can and they do flourish. So appealing to growth adds NOTHING to the debate, it is sideshow.

Whether believers can/should/do perform miracles and exceed Jesus ( something NOBODY has ever seen) or not is equally irrelevant.

Vooks: why is Oyaks telling members who don't give Firstfruits that they will catch HIV?
mbaemeka: last year we were 166,392,111 members, this year we are 167,258,966.77 gloooooory
Vooks: say what?
mbaemeka: last week, fibroids disappeared off a woman at Canada Healing School

mbaemeka, you're an unscrupulous appalling ego driven self-conceited WoFtard
- no offense, and am sorry this is hurting me more saying this than hurting you

mbaemeka, are you a learner, if not why are you coming across as one
1) You are so naive about healing and miracles
- The first question was about Tetraplegia (i.e. also known as quadriplegia) and you are bringing out fibroids
- You know, dont you, that inspite of the body been a self healing machine, there is a limit to...
2) You are so ignorant of Greek Aorist Tenses used in the New Testament.
- Google is your friend, if you're seriously curious or want to know more about Greek Aorist Tenses
3) You are so fond of using deceptive casualness, you put out "remarks" allegedly made by other poster(s) without backing them up with the actual quote or at very least do a verbatim
- Why do you shamelessly like quoting posters out of context, why do you enjoy twisting comments made by fellow poster(s)?

The questions asked were the below:
Q1) Why are "healing" schools FULL of genuinely and undisputedly crippled wheelchair-ridden people who NEVER GET HEALED?
Q2) Why is cerebral palsy sufferer(s) turned away from approaching "healing" pastor(s) on stage at "healing" school(s)?

How and where you got the "everyone is fake to you" idea, no doubt is a nomination for another/one of life's great mysteries

If you have no explanations for the scenario in Q1 and the incident in Q2, why not keep schtum or quiet about them.
Do you have to graffiti threads with uppity slurs
Your response make a mockery of two serious cases (i.e. the scenario in Q1 and the incident in Q2) which required/demanded careful consideration and not seasonal vituperative outburst(s)

trustman:
For starters, BabaGnoni's questions:

"Why are "healing" schools FULL of genuinely and undisputedly crippled wheelchair-ridden people who NEVER GET HEALED?
Why is cerebral palsy sufferer(s) turned away from approaching "healing" pastor(s) on stage at "healing" school(s)?"

Gombs:
Ask him whether he's writing from experience or just being cynical.

https://gifyu.com/images/BennyJacket.gif
Gombs! Keep quiet there, else be ready to be on the receiving end of this anointing reeking holy jacket LOL

Gombs:
Mark of the true gospel preachers.

https://s21.postimg.org/g1htt3esj/wheelchair.gif https://s21.postimg.org/g1htt3esj/wheelchair.gif https://s21.postimg.org/g1htt3esj/wheelchair.gif

nlMediator:
Excellente!

Excellente! Nah. Emotionalism!! Yeah

mbaemeka:
Mr A said God called him into ministry. Mr B said it wasn't true, that he was called by God almighty into ministry and not Mr A. Mr A then said if God truly called you he would back you up with the necessary credentials that he usually backs those he sent and since you do not have any of the signs we can conclude that you were not sent- you simply went. Mr B began quoting "false signs and false prophets shall appear..."

Question, what is Mr B's talk if not a cheap excuse?

Let me tell you why the numbers are important sometimes; it is because if the message being preached by CEC or WOF as a whole attracted only a few people the critics would not care. They would say "he is preaching a false gospel that's why nobody is listening to him". But now that the message is being heard by the world over it becomes frustrating to the traducers. I can give you a real time example. In my own branch of CEC in Nigeria we had just about 29 members on a Sunday service. This was like 10-12 years ago. There were a couple of good churches around us at the time and the least of them had close to 400 members on a typical Sunday.

Every now and then some of the leaders of those churches will visit the Pastor of my church and advice her to stop wearing trousers. Some told her it was an instruction from the lord while others were honest enough to say they were simply passing a piece of advice. The pieces of advice seemed to range from one of this four things: a) you let women wear makeup and this pisses people off who want to come to church b) you focus too much on feel good messages and you neglect the aspects of sin and the end time c) they are always advertising miracles and hero-worshiping the Pastor d) they are always talking about money money and giving giving etc.

My Pastor always thanked them politely for their counsel but she continued to minister complete doses of the whole counsel of the word as Paul (by the Holy spirit) admonished us to.

Few Years passed (and as I type this), we are the largest word church in my vicinity. It was now I began to understand that God doesn't need many members to do any work that he wants. What he asked us to do in the NT, is to obtain grace for the task ahead and that is what we have been doing. There was a time the Pastor announced that we had imminent plans of increasing capacity to accommodate new members and renovate the building. Just a rough estimate of what was required and people began speaking in tongues. One who is Carnally minded would begin to say "if everybody gives so so amount we might get half of the total required" but that is man's way of thinking and not God's. One brother stepped up and dropped a cheque and it was the total amount. Those of us who have spiritual sensors and know that the things of God aren't about 'contributions' didn't let him get blessed alone- We still gave as though it depended on us- each one as he had purposed in his heart. If I begin to mention all the financial testimonies we reaped I would be accused of boasting.

Anyways, our beloved brothers in christ that stayed around us began to change their talk. We started hearing that we were 'sinners playing church'. Some others called us a fellowship of sinners whose success was as a result of the same things they claimed was millitating us in timepast. The big cars that parked around the church became loot from tithes and firstfruits. The large crowd to them was elicited by miracle adverts and feel good messages and the renovations were from contributions from the gullible sheeple.

You are damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Now the standard of being a true gospeler is in being scandal-free. Jesus' words that there would be no woe to false prophets have been conveniently swept under the rug. Now that people are being added to the church it has become "narrow is the way". When your gospel attracts no one at the start, you are false. When it attracts people later you are false.
When they see no one healed they say 'no one gets healed it is fake'.
When they see people get healed they say 'too many people get healed it is fake'.
If they ask you about yourself and you say don't focus on me, focus on Jesus that I am presenting to you they will say he is too secretive he has something to hide. If you tell them about yourself they will say you are taking the glory for yourself and giving none to God.

Jesus said they complained about his own friends, dressing and feeding habits and in turn complained about a polar opposite- John the Baptist's as well. They want you to dance when they dance and cry when they cry. They know everything that is wrong with the church but will not offer what is right. They will not lift a pin but will give men heavy loads to carry. Everyone is right or wrong based on their own little standard. There is nothing new my dear. Absolutely nothing new.

Why are "healing" schools FULL of genuinely and undisputedly crippled wheelchair-ridden people who NEVER GET HEALED?
Why is cerebral palsy sufferer(s) turned away from approaching "healing" pastor(s) on stage at "healing" school(s)?

shdemidemi:
Please make your point so we can get on with the main issue.
You have asked and I believe I answered the best way I can.
I can also pose a million and one by-questions to you and thus make this real tedious,
but I prefer to hear your propositions on this kingdom issue rather than deal with semantics.

Thank you for your feigned enthusiasm but after your ill-tempered remark I have no point to make anymore.
Thanks, but no thanks.

shdemidemi:
I have nothing to lose but gain on nairaland hence I see no reason for glossing over an issue.

You have used Lord lugard who was delegated to administrate the interest of his kingdom in far away Africa. We can well make do with that.

^^^
Of course, there is nothing to lose but a lot or all to gain.

As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.
- We learn from each other

Glossing is open to more than one interpretation, which of the glossing, is yours
- is it gloss to shine and make glow or is it gloss by quickly polishing or briefly buffing to conceal or hide something

I am not trying to come across as condescending but understanding the nitty gritty and rudimentary concepts behind Land, Kingdom, Empire Domain and Lord, King, Emperor, Dominion is very crucial to grasping the roles God, Heaven, Earth, Eden and Adam are or were playing in all this Kingdom business.

shdemidemi, I am aware this could sway (i.e. turn tedious and wearisome) which is why I warned that the way the post was corralling, I really dont want to go down the route.
- apart from it potentially becoming taxing, you see, in the past, "for my trouble and sins", I have been quoted out of context and got treachery and ad hominem to show for it.

This clinical questioning and the "leaving no stone unturned" style is for the peace of mind and benefit of both of us
- seem to recall you saying: you'll appreciate we deal with each question thoroughly before going to the next.

"You have used Lord lugard who was delegated to administrate the interest of his kingdom in far away Africa" - © shdemidemi

His kindgom?
shdemidemi, whose kingdom please? (i.e. who is the "his'' in your copyrighted quote) and what was the name of the kingdom Lord Lugard was delegated to administrate the interest of?
Also please tell, what was Lord Lugard's title or office called when he was doing the administrating?

PS: by the way, am guessing you're on the road or fellowshipping

shdemidemi:
It is similar to an embassy, a facet of a place established somewhere else.
I hope that will do on 'outpost'.

Thank you.

Seems you didn't want to give an example(s) of your understanding of an outpost

We need to milk this dry shdemidemi, need to squeeze and twist out all ounce of water in this, so that we dont leave ourselves in doubt(s)

OK with your understanding and in your own words, what is an embassy, and explain with example(s) if able to please.
Also, who sets up embassies, how, why and where about are embassies set up?

shdemidemi:
outpost
ˈaʊtpəʊst/
noun
1.
a small military camp or position at some distance from the main army, used especially as a guard against surprise attack.
"troops in some outposts have surrendered"
2.
a remote part of a country or empire.

LOL, trust you to take an easy route.
- slapping down an online dictionary LOL

Outpost, in your own words and understanding, with example(s) if able to, please. Thank you.

shdemidemi:
It isn't so bro, if I agree with you it will then mean Eden was a temporal habitat for Adam. This is obviously not so. Eden was the perfect domicile God created for man. There was no plan to move him away from all that Eden presented- God's presence, no curse hence no needs, no ill health and there was longevity. Everything we lack and strive in the world today is the satisfaction we lost as a result of the fall. Unfortunately, nothing can bring Eden to the world today because nothing ever satisfies our innate needs. Man was pushed out of the Eden to the world, our only way back to Eden is through a righteousness that comes by believing the 'good news' of Jesus Christ (death, burial and resurrection).

We must distinguish between the 'world' and the 'earth'. We must understand the world is a system on earth, therefore, the world(system) would eventually come to an end but the earth remains forever.

That takes us to the next point we must distinguish the 'Kingdom of God' and the 'Kingdom of Heaven'. The Kingdom of God is the universal and eternal rule of God. The Kingdom of Heaven is the earthly sphere of the Kingdom of God, the coming Messianic reign of Jesus Christ, the Son of David. Matthew's Gospel gives a clearer picture of the kingdom to come, it is the book of the King and His coming Kingdom, it looks to His heavenly rule over the earth in the soon-coming millennium.

Jesus said- John 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Many erroneously think jesus said he will go prepare a mansion for us in His father's house. The book does not say so, Jesus is actually going to prepare a place within the mansion. This place wouldn't be our permanent home because we will all make our way back to earth with christ to rule the earth with Him.

What israel had was an invisible king. The prophecy they had was the coming of this invisible king in human form to come rule over His people. Israel was expecting Jesus but when He came, for the hardness of their heart they rejected him. Some jews are yet waiting for Jesus even today, they find it hard to believe he had come and he had left.

1 Thessalonians 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

shdemidemi, you're not posting something new that I don't already know

I was about responding but didn't want assume I understand your post above as I don't (i.e. some part of it is ambiguous)

So how do you mean "It isn't so bro'' and what are you implying with "if I agree with you it will then mean Eden was a temporal habitat for Adam." What does that mean?

What is an outpost shdemidemi? What is your understanding of an "OUTPOST"?
You also evaded the Lugard questions. LOL
- responding to these questions is crucial in understanding this Kingdom business, if not, potentially this discourse will turn into a Kingdom palaver, which is why I was wary of coming into participating or discussing it

If God permits, after your reply, we will:
- identify what Eden correctly was
- distingush correctly 'Kingdom of God' and the 'Kingdom of Heaven'
- address further, the monarchy (i.e. governing by king albeit invisible king)
- address further, John 14:2,
- address further, the mansion building (i.e. an old Jewish pre-wedding practice carried out by the bridegroom) and the honeymoon
- address further, etcetera and AOB

nlMediator:
Ok. Advice well taken.

I meant start (not still) looking. I've corrected it.
It was in reference to your 'piece of work' comment in which you seemed to suggest the expression is used for beautiful things, like fine range rovers. Well, not in the context I used it. The vernacular side.

^^^
Of course one knew the context it was used but was making light of it, by turning the context it was used on its head, and taking out, as it were, the venom (i.e. by saying "Land Wind X7" is a piece of work)

"Land Wind X7" actually is not a Range Rover as in not even a Range Rover model
"Land Wind X7" is not manufactured by Land Rover but it is a Chinese version of Range Rover Evoque (i.e. Range Rover Evoque imitation manufactured by the Chinese)
- the resemblance is striking, a 'piece of work'

nlMediator:
^^^^^

What's next, you hear that Denzel is a baaad actor and you still looking for all the bad actors you can find and then try to convince us Denzel does not belong to their class? Man, you need to be more familiar with the vernacular.

I agree with you on one thing though: some of these banters are not very necessary and lead to more fights. I should go back to my default mode of ignoring some people and some things around here. And stepping in when it is absolutely necessary.

^^^
Who's been looking and who's trying the convincing

The olive branch (i.e. stepping in when it is absolutely necessary) is a welcome, mature, healthy and good idea

nlMediator:
Isn't your comrade in arms a piece of work?
He neither knows exactly what Myles taught or what you said about it, but he's ready to pounce!

Lord, that guy's arrogance flowing from ignorance is nauseating. Sad.

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Wow, "Land Wind X7" is a beauty. Yeah! It's a piece of work

Is there a pleasure thing going on in all this (i.e. the goading, so as to stimulate a response or trigger a reaction)

Remember the 2nd commandment:
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain;

nlMediator:
I doubt that anybody ever said or even insinuated such.
The guy needs to put his imagination to better use.

Talking of putting imaginations to better use,
if I was none the wiser, I could be thinking nlMediator is Image123 because of all these post graffiting going on

shdemidemi:
Where Adam and Eve was, popularly known as the garden of Eden was on earth, wasn't it?
It was the kingdom of heaven.

Yes it was on earth, and no, it wasn't the kingdom of heaven.

I said and called it an OUTPOST

You remember Lord Frederick Lugard, don't you?
You know who he was and what he represented in Nigeria?
You know his title or office?
If yes, well then, Adam was a Lord Frederick Lugard like and Eden was his Nigeria equivalent

I guess you can suss out the rest with those clues

shdemidemi:
Jesus will also be coming back to earth to rule according to the prophetic books.
The bible makes it clear that He would not be coming all alone but He would be coming with saints (christians) that have been raptured to set up a kingdom with the jews that will survive the Great Tribulation On earth. Agree?

God has always been in the kingdom business. This from Eden, at some time with the Israelites and like you said "Jesus will also be coming back to earth to rule according to the prophetic books"

"Do everything they say to you," the LORD replied,
"for it is me they are rejecting, not you.
They don't want me to be their king any longer."
- 1 Samuel 8:7 NLT

It is not just today the bum has been at the back. God has been rejected as King so many times

It's a shame we haven't been able to share or state the distinction between the "Kingdom of God" and the "Kingdom of Heaven", as it would have given more clarity and understanding of the Kingdom

I agree shdemidemi, but can you please point me to where rapture is in the bible?