₦airaland Forum

shdemidemi:
Lol.. If you don't pass for a white garment seer, I wonder who would.

After your hiatus, I just put two and two together to draw up that conclusion

shdemidemi:
why I believe myles is wrong with that message

John the Baptist yearned continuously directly to the nation of Israel. His message was specifically of a kingdom that was to be started by the arrival of a king. The king was born quite alright. He began his ministry at the age of 30.

He appointed disciples who heralded a message to Israelites about who jesus really is- the son of God. If the nation agreed and accepted jesus as the son of God, the kingdom would have started and jesus would have ruled over the nation.

As we all know now through scriptures, they rejected their king. Jesus resigned to talking to the people in parable and at this point the ax was set under the tree. Jesus was ready to cut down the nation.

All his parables gave inklings about these things and at some point, even the representatives of the people of Israel understood what Jesus was insinuating.

After His passion, Peter asked a very important question about this kingdom that was abruptly cut short.

Acts 1
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

This kingdom was specifically for Israel and Peter wanted to know if it will be returned even after what they had done as a nation. Jesus understood this question and he replied saying 'it is not for you to know'.

At this point Jesus extended the reach as he commissioned the disciples to take the gospel (no more a kingdom gospel) of his death and ascension further than the nation of Israel but to the uttermost part of the earth.

Myles Munro is right about the Kingdom message

but hang on did you post what followed after "why I believe myles is wrong with that message"?
Or is the post a victim of hacking or highjacking?

Apart from the absurdness in the post, please note no offense meant, there are too many obvious or gaping holes in it
- the take in the post is how Judas made his boo-boo, thinking Jesus came to be a King

Also the post is trying to corral one into a tedious and wearisome exposition, a route, I don't now want to embark on

shdemidemi, kingdom is original, it started with the OUTPOST in Eden (i.e. with Adam). It is not a new thing, actually we are coming full circle back to how it originally was

WinsomeX:
At least, for one thing, those who might have thought BabaGnoni was I, they would know better.

BBG, your point is noted.

What is going on here?
Have I missed some action?
Who has been thinking BabaGnoni was WinsomeX?
Not too long ago someone too was thinking BabaGnoni and vooks was same
Then it became shdemidemi is vooks
- suspicious minds? paranoia?

^^^
David Oludairo, you again, na only you waka come? Issoright. Chai diaris God ooo. These "classified information" that you are sharing. Continue but just make sure you complete the list

WinsomeX:
@Bidam

I actually asked five questions for which you provided no answers. I am not saying whether they preach repentance or faith or any such gospel theme, I asked what is the central theme of their messages? And I will supply you the answer.

Oyedepo central theme is FAITH. Now if this faith was the Christian saving faith, I would have no problem with it. But his "faith" is one for getting things - mundane things. A faith that has no grasp of an eternal hope but only of things of this world.

Oyakhilome central theme is also faith, with a subscription to Success principles and excellence in life and ministry, and of course, signs and wonders. A cursory look at his ministry will not reveal it's true rot. Recent events in his life has actually brought to fore our long known suspicion that a ministry that disdains the orthodox commitment to holiness will have the worst sort of immorality going on beneath. And thanks to Sir John we now know that his ministry's claim to healing is also a fraud. The recent revelation that the one Joagbaje claimed he healed of HIV, was never healed has further buttressed the falsehood in the whole church.

Then Munroe. Myles preaches on Purpose, Leadership, all generally under the self help theme, and despite BabaGnoni defence of him on my thread, I am yet to be convinced that self help is the gospel of Christ.

You mentioned Adeboye, whom I tried to avoid for the fact that more people are sentimentally attached to him than anyone else. But he might even be the worst of them all as he preaches a holiness gospel alongside a prosperity gospel. There is no such thing in the bible.

You refer to their messages as having "life improvement" as a theme but my question to you is that is this the emphasis of the scriptures? Let me try and tell you the emphasis of scriptures:

1. The story of redemption: Jesus Christ died for the sins of all men and rose for our justification. This is the good news, the gospel.

2. That this gospel might be proclaimed to all men and that repentance and faith might be required from them.

3. That men who profess faith in Christ might live the gospel and proclaim it in a honorable way.

4. That the gospel of faith, love and hope might be preached to the church of the living God that God's people might have hope in a precarious world.

5. That God's good providence may be proclaimed to the church and that God's people may put hope in God to meet their needs. And if this need is not met, that they may trust in God always inspite of.

It is the fifth theme that has blossomed and become the heretic gospel of prosperity.

Jesus and his apostles never preached a faith for getting things at the expense of that of eternity; they never advertised miracles; they didn't preach leadership or motivational messages; they preached the gospel. Paul told Timothy to preach the word. What word are these ministers preaching?

Another proof of the fact that these men are not doing ministry in the manner the Master or his apostles did it is in the sort of obscene wealth they display. Oyedepo, Oyakhilome, Adeoye or even the late Munroe are not the first preachers the world has ever known. There have been prominent Christian preachers since the apostles: from Augustine to Thomas Aquinas to Martin Luther to John Wesley to C H Spurgeon to F B Meyer to our own Ayo Babalola of the CAC; non of them were known for wealth, talk less obscene wealth. Our preachers today preach a false gospel of prosperity, sponsored by the faithful but naive tithing of the people, and the ministers are the ones smiling to the bank, saying God is good. This is falsehood. This is wrong. And they should be told.

Scriptures say many will be deceived and will deceive many. We are in those times my friend and rather than offering lame excuses for these men, I advice you develop some discernment.

I never defended Myles Munroe but highlighted the fact that I have never and wasn't at any time interested in Myles Munroe's "Motivation, Leadership and Self Help" teachings or enterprises
My main and only interest in Myles Munroe, was his eye-opening teachings and explanations of the Good News of the Kingdom of Heaven or Kingdom of God
- I see no one teach and explain it easily and well the way he did

There is no where on that thread I prevented attacks or stopped attacks on Myles Munroe

I made remarks to the effect that Myles Munroe never classed or called his "Motivation, Leadership and Self Help" teachings or enterprises, the gospel.

and also remarked, for good reasons, that, as for Myles Munroe's capers, that will be for God or "America" to know
- maybe next year, two years time, five years or ten years time, we can talk about them

shdemidemi:
@babag

Do you realise there is a difference between a 'kingdom of God' and a 'kingdom of heaven'?

shdemidemi you're back from the grocery run with the family? LOL

What have you got up your sleeves now, darting on to 'kingdom of God' and a 'kingdom of heaven'
- hope nothing mischievous

This is heavy stuff you've just asked (i.e. tough muscle meat)

They are two different things, there is a difference but notice, at this level, I used them interchangeably

and of course, Jesus never said the kingdom of heaven is within you but rather He used 'kingdom of God'

Also I bet you're familiar with the domain (i.e. kingdom) and mandate given to Adam (i.e. have dominion over...

WinsomeX:
@ BabaGnoni

I understand Myles Munroe association with WoF and I think it is that association that led him to eventually teach a false gospel.

I agreed with the OP but refuse to agree that Munroe was a fellow soldier; I am convinced he was a false prophet who taught a false doctrine. Case in point:

Jesus only the Christian gospel.

The fact that Jesus proclaimed the Kingdom was more in keeping of his humanity not exalting himself; same way as he was God but did not proclaim himself as one. That the name Jesus offends a few should not make us edit it out. The fact that that name offends is proof that you are preaching the gospel because the gospel will offend men. The moment you remove the offence, you are no longer preaching the gospel.

Jesus is not only the Christian gospel. Jesus is part of the God gospel

God was being sensitive and mindful of their sensibilities.
Here are a people that revere God's name so much, that even up to today or the present time, they won't or are unable to pronounce God's name or write it down - they use substitutes for the name of God
This is why Jesus was so thoughtful as not to reveal He was God or outrightly proclaim Himself as one (i.e. not proclaim Himself as God) should in case they go berserk or out of control with anger with such statement

The fact that Jesus proclaimed the Kingdom has nothing to do with keeping of his humanity and not exalting himself but rather that no savvy business owner makes advertisements about the entrance to the business place first.
We don't see Shoprite Supermarket make adverts about the entrances or doors to their store but it rather is about the business, itself - Shoprite Supermarket

The same applies to the Father's business, the Kingdom of Heaven or Kingdom of God. The advertisements are all about the Kingdom of God
and not the entrance-Jesus or door-Jesus into the Kingdom of God business premises
- we come into the Kingdom of God business premise obviously it is going to be through the Door, which is Jesus, in essence the Kingdom of God business premise comes first in the order of things and not the other way round, as with Kingdom of God business premise door first

WinsomeX:
I said all that to point out that the above statement of Munroe is a true summary of his messages. His messages on motivation, leadership and self help is adapting the gospel to fit human acceptance. This is false teaching, sir. We are not permitted as Christian ministers to do so except of course you are WOF. I understand your soft spot for him having learnt a bit from him. I wouldn't have trouble with Munroe messages if he had made it clear that what he taught was not Christian. But for a man to lead a church, associate with Christians, call himself Christian and the inaugurate a message removing the Chtistian icon, Jesus, is wrong.

My biggest supporter of ministry is a Leadership Expert. I support him also and even try to attend his seminars but I have made it clear to him that what he teaches are not Christian principles. Just as a Maths teacher is not teaching Christian principles, he is teaching Maths. Munroe taught Motivation, Leadership and Self Help. He did not teach the gospel. And his effort to edit the name Jesus from the gospel to legitimize his own message renders the messages he preached a false doctrine.

I am sure there are things to learn from him but those things will certainly not be Christian.

Myles Munroe never classed or called his "Motivation, Leadership and Self Help" teachings or enterprises, the gospel.

We all until we threw away or dropped them, had to a certain degree elements of WoF indoctrination baggages we carried about, and Myles Munroe not doubt has his fair share before going to a Oral Roberts WoF university

I have no "soft spot" perse for Myles Munroe or hold any allegiance to him except that the truth be told and acknowledged about his teachings on the Kingdom of Heaven and the order of which the gospel should be presented to all nations

I have never and wasn't at any time interested in Myles Munroe's "Motivation, Leadership and Self Help" teachings or enterprises
My main and only interest was the eye-opening teachings and explanations of the Good News of the Kingdom of Heaven or Kingdom of God
- I see no one teach and explain it easily and well the way he did

Contrary to public perception, Myles Munroe was not ashamed of the name of Jesus nor offended by the name of Jesus.
Myles Munroe wasn't even removing Jesus or removing the name of Jesus from the Gospel.

He wasn't by any chance diminishing Jesus either rather Myles Munroe was sentising the "church" to the first love of Jesus, which was preaching the Kingdom of Heaven or Kingdom of God.
When this is preached, when asked how does one enter the Kingdom, then one points to the Door, Jesus, saying, one enters the Kingdom through that Door, which is Jesus.

We don't stop at the Door, but we enter through the Door into the Kingdom and start to enjoy the privileges of and the benefits available for being a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven or Kingdom of God

I am sure these are such of the things to learn from Myles Munroe and those things certainly are Christian

nora544, previously posted some quotes made by Myles Munroe, we all know these are mostly true and are kid gloves quotes when compared to the bizarre sounding quotes we all are familiar with among prominent or heavyweight WoFaithers

As for Myles Munroe's capers, that will be for God or "America" to know
- maybe next year, two years time, five years or ten years time, we can talk about them

shdemidemi:
How then do we explain what Jesus told his disciples when they were commissioned to go preach the gospel of the kingdom.
Matthew 10
5 Jesus sent out the twelve apostles with these instructions: "Don't go to the Gentiles or the Samaritans,

The fact remains shdemidemi, that Jesus undeniably preached the good news of the Kingdom of Gid or Heaven to the multitude.

Please shdemidemi don't do this, you know that Jesus after His resurrection sent the rest of the disciples to all nations
- each directive Jesus gave had its own timing for its own purpose (i.e. specific instructions to His disciples according to a particular time and circumstance)

shdemidemi:
Paul alluded to the fact that he was fallible, but not once did he have any doubt about what he presented to the church about Christ or His assembly. The bible never gave an inkling of such idea too, rather what the bible says is -

1 Corinthians 11 King James Version (KJV)

11 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Whenever Paul had any doubt or reservations, he ALWAYS says this is my opinion on the issue or this is my standing on this matter

#1 Myles Munroe:
"That's why angel's need our permission to function. It says they are here to do our bidding. They can't even act without our permission, you see. (But, here's the bigger statement smiley Even God Himself is illegal on earth. Why? Because, He is a spirit and the law He set up by His own mouth was that only spirits with bodies can function on earth legally.

#2 Myles Munroe
"Let me define prayer for you in this show. Prayer is man giving God permission or license to interfere in earth's affairs. In other words, prayer is earthly license for heavenly interference."

#3 Myles Munroe
"Heaven depends on earth for interference. If He [God] could just find two people like you [Benny Hinn] and I to agree. We agree for God to do this thing. Then God says, 'Thank you very much for permission!'

#4 Myles Munroe
"Our prayer is a strange experience. We normally ask God to do things, God is telling us to command Him permission to do it for us."

On #1, Myles Munroe is correct, also see the Mary example following below
On #2, Myles Munroe is correct
On #3, Myles Munroe, not sure of this one about Benny Hinn, so Myles Munroe is on his own on this one, however anything within the confines of the rules He laid down or algorithm He had written, is game, as far as God is concerned

On #4, Myles Munroe is correct, just like here on nairaland forum, we normally want the website owner do things for us, the website owner will do things or make this happen for you, when you click the right button, prompt etcetera

nora544:
Since when God need permission that he can do something for us!

nora544, an example is Mary
Mary said "Let it be, according to they word." That means, she gave her permission.
- She submitted to God's will

shdemidemi:
Could it then be that we have some things we have been told to do by Paul in the scripture are 'man' (natural man) concocted?

It is true "We have some things we have been told to do by Paul in the scripture are 'man' (natural man) concocted"

shdemidemi:
If you say yes to this, it will then mean that 2 Tim 3:16 (All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness) isn't completely correct.

2 Tim 3:16 is as solid as a rock, there is nothing untoward in it. It is completely correct

shdemidemi:
I believe anything that is not from God is from the devil. That explains why Jesus called Peter a devil even as a believer.

I couldn't agree more to this

shdemidemi:
Good to know.
You remain one of the people I really enjoy to read on the forum. Thanks

I could easily say the same about you, you just like Myles Munroe and others have or had helped.
You don't know this but you accidentally helped me in figuring out a particularly baffling mystery in the bible

shdemidemi:
If I may ask, whose word is greater - the father (God) or the son (God)?

shdemidemi sire, trick question? LOL
Let's make an educated guess based on John 12:49

I have not spoken on my own. Instead, the Father who sent me told me what I should say and how I should say it.
- John 12:49 GOD'S WORD® Translation

shdemidemi:
Paul's epistles were definitely letters
but can we say it was only for that particular church that it was addressed to
or should we see them as generic messages to the entire body of Christ?

Paul said this in one of such letters-

1 cor 1
1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, [size=20pt]with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:[/size]

Epistle is a letter, let's move on and not wear the words epistle or letter thin
Both; "for that particular church that it was addressed to or see them as generic messages to the entire body of Christ"

shdemidemi:
A kingdom gives a picture of a place with a king and his subjects.

Where exactly in all of Paul's teaching or letters did he teach Jesus as the king of the church.
Rather he taught that every member is a part of the body of Christ.

Jesus preached about a kingdom quite alright but did that ever involve non-jews?

True, "a kingdom gives a picture of a place with a king and his subjects", it sure does and that was the gospel Jesus Christ was preaching and teaching

I don't know as Jesus is not "the king of the church"
I am yet to find it anywhere in the bible that he is or in "Paul's teaching or letters" that Jesus is "the king of the church"

Paul sure taught that every member is a part of the body of Christ (i.e. a citizen or member of ther Kingdom of Goid or Heaven)

Yes, it did ever involve non-Jews
The multitude Jesus preached the Kingdom of Heaven to were not all Jews

shdemidemi:
I believe the letters covered issues well beyond wranglings and personal opinions.
The letter explained, expanded on all what Jesus was unable to say clearly. Jesus said
John 16
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


Paul taught us how to be saved, the actual meaning of baptism, the ministry of the Spirit, Grace, Charity, Faith, Hope , doctrine of election, doctrine of propitiation, how the church should run - Order and many more.

Should all of these things be mitigated?

We are on the same page, however just as Jesus taught the original 12 Apostles, so Jesus gave Paul an accelerated teaching or he received downloaded information similar to what Adam had in Eden.
Having said that the fact remains that Paul just like every other man (i.e. you and I) had opinions
- opinions, not necessarily based on facts, teachings or knowledge

shdemidemi, no one is suggesting that Paul is not trustworthy but he, Paul, isnt infallible or is he?
- not that I find any flaw(s) in Paul's teaching

shdemidemi:
This statement could be true, so I have no qualms whatsoever with it.

Is it possible that Paul would infer anything he didn't learn or that was not inspired by the risen Christ Himself.

After all, Paul said he was taught what he was teaching by no man but by Christ Himself.

This statement could be true that, it is "possible that Paul would infer anything he didn't learn or that was not inspired by the risen Christ Himself"

After all, Paul not only taught and explained things but also had opinions like you and I have
- these opinons were not necessarily based on fact, knowledge or teachings. Some will call it, as it were, gut reaction or reasoning

shdemidemi:
You are actually right, I was not familiar with his teachings or works before the news of his sudden death. However, I have seen videos of his lectures pasted here and on more on youtube.

You dear sir have just gone up a notch in my respect of you
- I am aware a few of us, aren't totally familiar with Myles Munroe's works, some were alienated by the WoF affiliation or put off by his seemingly braggadocio display of knowledge or information.

shdemidemi:
1) I did not see any comparisons to come to the conclusion that one was higher than the other

The comparison is that Paul's words like yours and mine can go out from the mouth, can return back empty, not accomplishing that which it was purposed, and thus not succeeding in the thing for which it was sent.
This concludes that Paul's words like yours and mine if not within the allowable limit is not on the same par of Jesus' words
- Jesus' word is Supreme, not Paul's, yours or mine

shdemidemi:
2) Did Paul speak his own words or were they also the words of risen Christ/ Spirit?

Paul did both
(i.e. said by his own admittance, he spoke his own words and also on other occasions, he emphatically spoke the words of risen Christ)
- he always makes the distinction when and/or where he is speaking his words or the words of the risen Jesus Christ

shdemidemi:
@babagnoni

Do you agree with Mike Munroe that the words of Jesus are greater than that of paul?

Do you agree that all paul wrote in the epistles were mere letters and should be read as such?

Do you also agree that the preaching of the Kingdom of heaven is for the present church?

I have more questions but I will prefer to keep them for now and I will also appreciate if we deal with each question thoroughly before going to the next.

Do you agree with Mike Munroe that the words of Jesus are greater than that of paul?
I don't know any Mike Munroe nor familiar with any work, writing or words of Mike Munroe.
- I could be wrong but if you were really familiar with Myles Munroe's works, you wouldn't make a slip of his first name.

The words of Jesus are greater than that of Paul (i.e. Isaiah 55:11, Matthew 24:35, Luke 21:33 etcetera)

so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth;
it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose,
and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.
- Isaiah 55:11 ESV

shdemidemi would you agree that Jesus never made opinions, but some of Paul's words, he admits were opinions

Do you agree that all paul wrote in the epistles were mere letters and should be read as such?
Epistles are letters so the affirmative answer is, all Paul wrote were epistles (i.e. letters), and they should be read as such.
Mind you, these letters were written and sent to intended or specific churches
The contents of the letters were:
1) About him preaching the Kingdom
2) About him settling wranglings
3) About him, giving advices, expressing a view on ongoing issues within the church or judgement formed about something
and where applicable he ALWAYS clearly states it is his opinion and not necessarily God's

So Paul's letter should be read with intent to make informed choices
- informed decisions are readily made when reading Paul's letters

Do you also agree that the preaching of the Kingdom of heaven is for the present church?
This seems like an ambiguous question but will attempt proffering an answer(s) nonetheless
The preaching and by default, the proclaiming, the teaching and by default, the explaining of the Kingdom of Heaven is for the "church", (i.e. the "church" even to the end of the age)

This is on the condition that you continue in faith without being moved from the solid foundation of the hope that the Good News contains.
You've heard this Good News of which I, Paul, became a servant. It has been spread throughout all creation under heaven.
- Colossians 1:23 GOD'S WORD® Translation

Then He said to them,
"Go the whole world over, and proclaim the Good News to all mankind.
- Mark 16:15 Weymouth New Testament

The gospel, which Jesus proclaimed and explained to the multitude was about the Happy News of Kingdom of Heaven
- The priority of everyone, is first to seek the Kingdom of Heaven

I have more questions but I will prefer to keep them for now and I will also appreciate if we deal with each question thoroughly before going to the next
My sentiments exactly

sholay2011:
God doesn't take people through plane crash...regardless of your epistle OP.

And if God wanted to take him....and maybe with his wife ....not along with seven other 'innocent' people!

The Owner does what the Owner needs to do... regardless of anyone or anything

"Taking out" is inevitable. It is unavoidable at this side of eternity

So is it the tragic death of Myles Munroe & Co you've just realised 'innocent' people's loss of life?
Is it recently you've only noticed 'innocent' people's loss of life
- e.g. loss of life of 'innocent' people like Jesus Christ, Abel, John the Baptist, stillborns etcetera

Myles Munroe was "taken out" by God for reason(s) best known to Him and not because of a "false gospel"
- also there are no two ways around it, whenever, the breath owner asks for His breath back, one is marked and time is up

No doubt Myles Munroe was pro-WoF but the fact is, he was a "his own man" kind of WoF affiliate
- with his theology and particularly the Gospel of the Kingdom (i.e. Good News of the Kingdom), he stood head and shoulders above most in the WoF clique.

I endorse Myles Munroe 95% on the entirety of the video
- He is right and he in no way diminished the good thing about Calvary, Resurrection, healing etc

Note that Myles Munroe lately, wasn't raw and off the chain as he used to be years ago
so, if a "false gospel" was perpetuated by Myles Munroe, he would have be "taken out" by God a long time ago.

This gospel Myles Munroe preached and taught, is the gospel Jesus Christ taught too, and same with Paul after Jesus Christ

²⁴But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself,
so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus,
to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
²⁵And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God,
shall see my face no more.
- Acts 20:24-25 KJ Bible

³⁰And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
³¹Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ,
with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
- Acts 28:30-31 KJ Bible

The video has just brought happy recollections and thinking back to all I learned from his videos and/or books which made sense of quite a few things
- a lot of nuggets, precious stones and gems in that video, almost nothing to fault in it all

I do not mourn Myles Munroe but I am delighted he had the understanding of the Gospel of the Kingdom, and that he shared and explained it, among other things.

Paul preached what Jesus preached. He preached the Good News Jesus preached (i.e. he preached what Jesus preached)

Myles Munroe did nothing differently, he was sentising the "church" to the "First Love" (i.e. the Good News Jesus preached)

Now when I went to Troas to preach the gospel of Christ and found that the Lord had opened a door for me
- 2 Corinthians 2:12 NIV

We (i.e. the "church'') have reversed the points and reversed the order too. We teach about Jesus first, and then the Kingdom, if at all it's preached/taught

Jesus didn't preach or teach about his death or resurrection in public, He preached and taught about the Kingdom

Jesus is the entry point into the Kingdom. Whoever goes to Shoprite, but stays at the door, not going into Shoprite? None
No one hears or sees adverts about Shoprite's door. The advert is ALWAYS about Shoprite itself and not the door
The Shoprite's door is crucial and important to enter Shoprite, nonetheless the attraction, curiosity and matter of greatest importance is to be inside Shoprite

Jesus the Door, publicly preached about the Kingdom and not Himself, the Door
- last stop is the Kingom of God or Kingdom of Heaven and not Jesus

The "false teacher" opinion, is formed about Myles Munroe, usually beforehand without knowledge or examination of the facts he taught.
- I think Myles Munroe is often prejudiced against because of the leadership training and the elements of WoF (e.g. tithing, hustle etc) in him, these beclouds the real issues of the Gospel of the Kingdom he tried to teach and explain

Re: Jesus Never Died, Said Myles Munroe The Occultist
https://www.nairaland.com/1579172/jesus-never-died-said-myles#20648951

Image123:
Before you joined NL under the fig tree, we've been 'hibernating'. You don't even define jare.

^^^
Congratulations.
- bet you want a medal for that or a chest to pin it on. LOL

Image123:
Who released Gnoni to quickly come and play on NL?

Image123:
What??
Despite the concerted efforts of both the federal and state governments for your basic education, you still couldn't escape razzzzzzzzz rhymes? Stop distracting me from getting nanny, you're getting it this time, lol.

^^^
https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif
Wasnt you asking "Who released Gnoni to quickly come and play on NL?" and hence the orange tree rhyme,
now you are getting the hump... tsk tsk tsk

All the same, hold on to your knickers,
I am already quaking in my boots, so no need to call up the calvary
- I've backed away.

Hibernation is trendy, remember. Try it too

Image123:
You do need that dirty slap, lemme go look for nanny.

^^^
nanny ko, Au Pair ni... LOL
- you wan form "Ajebutter", eh, you didnt sing such Kindergarten rhymes at the "Pako" je-ile-sinmi pre-school, hmm?

Anyway, stop being silly. It's time for you to grow up, buddy! Act your age, not your shoe size!!

Image123:
Who released Gnoni to quickly come and play on NL?

^^^
"Labe igi oronbo, lati nsere wa, inu wa dun, ara wa ya, labe igi oronbo. Oronbo!"
literally meaning "Under the orange tree, that's where we play, we are happy and joyful, under the orange tree. The orange tree!"
Back to hibernating - Hibernation is the in-thing now.

Image123:
Leviticus 20:21 And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's unclothedness; they shall be childless.
Mark 6:18 For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife.

Do you think that scripture above applies to a Christian saved by the blood of Christ today?
Or we can go get our brother's wife as we're saved by God?

^^^
*yinmu*

What would you want to be ogling your brother's wife for, hmm?
- just a stray thought like that, is how it all starts, LOL

Obviously a christian who knows his onions and Galatians 5:14 wouldn't even considered it, talkless of the thought, even if this is an Image123 harmless proposition remark or banter

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this;
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
- Galatians 5:14 King James 2000 Bible

Back to hibernating - that's the in thing now, Hibernation.

nannymcphee:
while your post might show the above on the surface but a deep study of your posts with respect to WOF will show its true nature, it's filled with criticisms!!!!

The tone of ur posts, has this authority of what this folks are doing is wrong & you have the authority to criticize them or tell them where they have gotten it wrong

Infact one would almost say, that's your calling

I guess you mollycoddle cockroaches
Ah so you have a gift of discerning calling or is that from gazing in a crystal ball?
- Your "criticisms" anyway have been noted

nannymcphee:
when I preach to people then, I don't tell them go to a bible believing church, NO!!! I tell them go to Christ embassy, because that's where I'm & I believe in what they preach.

yes, presently I don't point them there but hope u get my point.

It is no secret that, it's all about our relationship with Abba Father through Jesus and the Kingdom. It never was or had anything to do with "church" or other mini or man-made empires here on earth.

nannymcphee:
You have spent months telling folks how the WOF has missed it, never have I seen you proffering a solution, never I have seen you making recommendation of where they should worship or how they should worship

This & this has gotten it wrong, but you haven't told them who is getting it right

Someone visits that thread & sees "the errors" of his church, the question then becomes where do I go from here ?
Answers which you haven't provided, it appears you derive joy from punching holes into the WOF circle

Not just merely months but months of LABOUR, labour of love
- we thank God for His Faithfulness and recompenses

YOU DONT GET IT.
WoF TRANSCENDS "where they should worship or how they should worship".
- Some churches don't even know they are practising WoF, some churches and/or members don't even know they are WoF influenced to a small degree or large degree.
- WoF is not a one size fits all, it comes in all shapes and sizes, it can be customised, it is adapted, it also can be subtle to the point of not be easily detectable

It isn't about "where they should worship or how they should worship" BUT watch out for the warnings, signs or signals. If anything ontoward then make an informed adjustment or whatever is necessary

Not one to hoot my horn, but the "Answers which you haven't provided" sic is an oxymoron with what's in the below link,
- for anything else or more to "learn" , I guess "America will know"

WEALTH/PROSPERITY (intro)
https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/2#24485507

WEALTH/PROSPERITY
https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/4#24511648

THE DEIFICATION OF MAN (INTRODUCTION)
https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/4#24542985

THE DEIFICATION OF MAN
https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/4#24553236

JDS - Jesus Died Spiritually (INTRODUCTION)
https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/5#24701718

JDS - Jesus Died Spiritually
https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/6#24798410

JDS - Jesus Died Spiritually (contd)
https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/6#24806078

The joy of the LORD is my strength!
These too are my joy. Seeing others set free, seeing shackles split open, seeing yokes broken, seeing burdens lifted or eased off etc.
No! Not joy from punching holes into the WoF circle.

Are you familiar with some, if not all the doctrinal positions of WoF?. Well, the objective and information that the WoF thread was providing was to open readers' eyes to those doctrinal positions and cause them to be sensitized about it.

Bring yourself up to speed with details (i.e. the intro) of the necessity of WoF thread (i.e. from below link)
https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents#24325823

nannymcphee:
You need to go read the Midas touch, if not the whole book, but the chapter he talked about maintaining a balance in teaching Gods words, showing the two extremes on doctrines/teachings of Gods word & how certain extremities are helpful

I am biting my tongue, if I want to brag, you know I would use lines such as: "the shedload of hard-copy books I have in my library" and that's not mentioning the soft-copies, but sorry I don't do horn hooting or blow trumpets

nannymcphee:
You my friend hasn't been preaching the gospel of jesus on NL...

As you understand it, nannymcphee, what is the Gospel of Jesus Christ? After that also expatiate on how Jesus died spiritually as prominent WoFaithers teaches it.

nannymcphee:
... but have gone on a criticizing spree!!

Criticizing spree? Criticizing spree indeed. You don't know half of it and don't even need to know. SMH

- EXCERPT -

This is reiterating the message of an earlier post that contrary to an impression perceived, the thread is not about "opening up to the fraud and lies in what is called 'Christianity' in churches today" per se
but rather, it is about putting Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents, specifically, under a microscope
It is about examining each of their doctrine(s) along with putting it's proponents under close scrutiny
It is not, necessarily about the fraud and lies perpetrated in the body of Christ at large
but as explicitly shown or stated by the title of the thread, it is about those of WoF movement.

Restating again, contrary to continued and inherent perception the thread is not set up nor used to harass or undermine those with differing doctrines, teachings or views.

The thread as earlier mentioned is about examining the doctrines of WoF and not interested in the personalities per se.

We are aware that some of us are sentimentally attached to various personalities, MoGs etc WoF inclusive
hence the defense and attempts to prevent or protect them from what is perceived as personal attacks

This is unfair and unacceptable that the frequent regurgitation of these absurd claims of naming to shame
destroying people, putting names on enemies' list, personal vendetta etc
are distracting and deflecting the purpose of the thread from been carried out.

We are advised to hold up under the light of the scriptures all teachings
We are commanded to test all things, examine the teachers, rightly divide the Word of truth and test the Spirits because not all come from the Lord.
Isn't that what so far on the thread has being done?

Some have given this thread a wide berth, some like Image123 etc had rained on the thread's parade
Why people even bother commenting on threads when they haven't got meaningful contributions beats me.
It's so annoying...

We know that WoF movement seemingly has somewhat, if not more some good teachings.

We know that people have been opportune to have libraries or comprehensive list of almost all the WoF messages ever preached
whether via audio, books, CD/DVDs, TV Channels, seminars, newsletters, magazines etc

We know too, that such fortunate people strenuously vouch that most of these message they've listened to are sound.
in other words, they find the teachings 100% faultless,
that none of the teachings whatsoever are iffy, unsettling, doubtful, un-biblical, dodgy, controversial, awkward etc

We are aware that in defense, the responses are in the form of, some of teachings are not properly understood by others
but are taken to the extremes or out of context and that these extremes "were and are" sadly attributed to the WoF movement.

The thread is not against WoF teachings or discouraging Christians from hearing or listening to them
WoF movement are free to say, to teach etc

The thread is not advising throwing out the baby and soap with the dirty bath water rather, it is pointing out where the bones are and advising should in case you're eating the fish, know when to spit out the bones and/or how to spit out the bones.

After all, like Voltaire, this thread might say:

“I do not agree with what you have to say,
but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.”

This is not a witch hunt or character assassination.

It is not critising the personalities per se
but rather the principalities behind the personalities' doctrine
and the reason and motives behind the doctrine.

There is already so much misleading and inaccurate doctrines out there
If anyone is going to put teachings out there at least make sure it is accurate and know what such person is talking about

It is nice to see that there are many well informed Christians out there,
unfortunately some of us still do need help to perform the Bereans and check facts and truths

This is the purpose and why the thread has this responsibility to the audience who are trying to learn the bible healthier without any sorrow added

- BabaGnoni

https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/5#24622666

- /EXCERPT -

Thank you both for the moral support nannymcphee and nlMediator
- I am sure nlMediator never knew about the plugging "We know that WoF movement seemingly has somewhat, if not more some good teachings" free advert on WoF in the WoF thread
- the WoF thread is an objective and not a personal or attack thread, as some purport it to be.

nannymcphee:
Just as Gombs said, most of you haven't done. Proper study on the minister's you critize, you havent listened to his messages over time for you to know the thrusts of his message or what he stands for, you simply base your talk on excerpts from his teaching or what people are saying & that is so so wrong

I am hurting myself now nannymcphee, as I am still biting my tongue. My consolation which is "Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord" is suffice

nannymcphee:
If any WOFers had written the above, you will send them to the gallows & embark on another epistle on how they twist scripture to their advantage

It was appropriate to write it, as there is no point in "writing the book, pastoring the church, preaching the gospel the way it ought to be preached... then come tell us to learn from you" because what is on the ground is tantamount to "writing the book, pastoring the church, preaching the gospel the way it ought to be preached... then come tell us to learn from you"
- mind you, it wasn't twisted or written to obtain pecuniary advantage deception, it wasn't written for personal gain, it wasn't written to persuade people to give or do something by sustained coaxing or flattery

nannymcphee:
...but I'm not surprised, my stand still remains we know in parts & we'll should recognize & respect that

I'll believe everyone here has the Holy Spirit (I know u might disagree-no qualms) & even at that we have had major/minor disagreement on Gods word, a book authored by the same spirit that leaves in us

The question becomes why? Why the disagreement if truly the same spirit?

so long as we all are at different level of walk & relationship with him, we all will continue to see things differently. The earlier you embrace this, the better

Why? Why the disagreement if truly the same spirit? Well, nannymcphee, 1 John 4:1 tells us why and advises that the spirit be tested

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God:
because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
- 1 John 4:1 KJ Bible

nannymcphee:
most times you want your word to be final & not questioned (the very thing you accuse Wof for)

Extremely amusing and hysterically funny. Too funny for words. Pardon me, if one suffer trolls gladly and then yank the rug under troll's feet after troll(s) has repeatedly crossed the line with remarks or questions that has no substance or relevance to the status quo, as troll(s) was only set out from the beginning, with the intention of causing maximum disruption and distraction

nannymcphee:
I will leave you with this

A young couple moves into a new neighborhood. The next morning while they are eating breakfast, the young woman sees her neighbor hanging the wash
outside.

"That laundry is not very clean; she doesn't know how to wash correctly. Perhaps she needs better laundry soap." Her husband looks on, remaining silent. Every time her neighbor hangs her wash to dry, the young woman makes the same
comments.

A month later, the woman is surprised to see a nice clean wash on the line and says to her husband: "Look, she's finally learned how to wash correctly. I wonder who taught her this? The husband replies, "I got up early this morning and cleaned our windows." And so it is with life... What we see when watching others depends on the clarity of the window through which we look

culled from Facebook

Touching, but seeing fruits is a different kettle of fish to watching through stained windows

I remember I wasn't impressed, not a happy bunny, the day I realised that father christmas leaving presents behind, tooth fairy leaving money under the pillow etcetera, were not real, but that it was all pretend, a big fat lie.

Bottom line is, you don't WoF criticized. You don't want pointing out faults in or with WoF.
You want, all pretend, jump, kick legs together in the air and just live happily after.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
- quote from Edmund Burke

Ranchhoddas:
Obadiah aka sukkot,the 22nd is around the corner. No hint of a war.

MaziOmenuko:
Nov 17th: 6:28am...

Everything looks normal so far; maybe because I'm a bit 'non-skeptic'.
If I don't meet traffic on my way to work, then armageddon is actually starting.

I will keep the update coming...

Welcome, its approximately 4 days, 18hrs left for the world war that will end the world to start... Or for a fake hithen and heresy preacher to deactivate his moniker and register a new one.

https://s28.postimg.org/e9hw2l22l/John.jpg

Unsettling:
The video also shows the mass murder of Syrian military personnel by beheading led by Jihadi John at a desert location. Unlike the murder of Western hostages, the killing of the Syrians is shown in full

Sickening:
The latest ISIS video showed a group of Syrian soldiers being marched along a desert road in Dabiq and brutally murdered by a large number of unmasked militants
In the sickening video, the group of Syrian soldiers are marched to their execution site by Islamic State militants

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2837090/British-medical-student-Jihadi-beheading-video-20-year-old-appears-Jihadi-John-sickening-film.html

nlMediator:
^^^

I respect Myles. It was mainly out of respect for him and the agony of his loss especially under such tragic circumstances that I stopped posting here since I heard of his death last Sunday night.
I was deeply offended when that lady from Europe posted an old poster of Myles to attack him.
But I thank God for the restraint that made me ignore her post.

Regarding seeing good in WOF, where is the proof?
How many topics in almost 30 topics in your WOF thread is devoted to the "Few Good Things of WOF"?
I assume None. How many threads have you and your cohorts opened to discuss these good things?
Zero. In fact, if any such thread is opened, like this one, you all do your best to squash it.

Yes, I know you've been blessed by WOF.
That's why it makes little see for the turn you've taken to join hands with those who think that WOF is false gospel and therefore anathema.

Regarding your statement that I see everything as right in WOF, you obviously spoke out of ignorance as you know very little about me. My response here has been primarily about attacks on WOF that I think are wrong or unfair. That does not mean I endorse everything I hear and have said so here in the past. [In fact, I'm happy that WOF is not perfect because perfection should be reserved for God]. But I certainly won't join in the bandwagn of those who would use any occasion to discredit the fact that God uses His vessels today to heal, deliver, empower and enrich.

The hullabaloo that has arisen over a healing video here recently exposes the disgrace and bankruptcy of this critical standpoint.

Restraint or self control is a good thing

I've just had a loud and hearty laugh over the bold highlight above
- believe what you may
Though I almost took the bait, the fact is I am not one to sound my horn
- Besides, if I am not letting my left hand know what my right hand is doing, what chance do you think you'll have of knowing

Oh, c'mon now, do we have to go through this all over again or in here now
What you perceive as attacks, actually are warning signs about doctrines like Jesus Died Spiritually, No power in the Cross, Name it...Claim it etc
What you perceive as discredit, actually is lifting the lid and exposing those and what is bringing the "church" into disrepute

Not everyone is capable of safely watching, listening or reading WoF and not get detrimentally influenced by the unsavoury or shady side of WoF
hence the need for the FYIs - For Your Information, the need for the "Caveat Emptor" or "let the buyer beware" etcetera
- "WoF" Trading Standards things?

Some need help picking out the bones for them, else or if not, they might swallow the whole shebang and get choked by the bones in it.

I have nothing to say about the "hullabaloo that has arisen over a healing video here recently exposes the disgrace and bankruptcy of this critical standpoint" except that the "Out!" "Out!!" shriekings in the video put me off and have made me become disinterested with it and the starring actors.

nlMediator:
Myles fraternizing with WOF? Do you guys even know who he was and what WOF is? Myles got born again and shortly thereafter came to the US to attend Oral Roberts University and spent time in Tulsa, the headquarters (pretty much) of WOF!
In other words, Myles has been WOF probably from Day One.
It's like accusing David Oyedepo (who didn't even start with WOF) of fraternizing with WOF. Does that make sense?

I'm glad you admit to being blessed by a WOF minister.
That's what we've been telling you guys all along.
As you keep on rubbishing WOF, you pose a stumbling block to others who would benefit as you did.
That's simply unfair. And that's one of the reasons some of us will not let your crusade to succeed.

Like you, Myles blessed my life mightily. I got a powerful truth from his book, 'Maximizing Your Potential' about how fear is simply faith in the negative, in the power of the devil to bring to pass what he wants to accomplish. Same way faith helps brings God's objectives to pass.
Once I laid hold of that truth, I was delivered from a demonic stronghold of fear that would have derailed or even destroyed my destiny.

May God grant comfort to His family. I'm almost in tears as I type but I'm comforted by the fact that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. So, as Paul advised, I'll not sorrow as those without hope.

Tell me something I don't. I know all there is to know about Myles Munroe (e.g. his childhood, born again at 13 years old, his stint at ORU etc)
You wont be the first person that is shocked that I gravitate towards Myles Munroe
I have been pulled up enough times because of Myles Munroe and my responses have always been "I know, I know, but I can handle it..."
I understand Myles Munroe, I understand "Baba", even you too, to a certain degree, I do understand
- the whole lot too, our resident major players here; joagbaje, Bidam, mbaemeka, Gombs, I understand each.

It is the deceit that is rubbished. I pose a sidestep and stepping stone not a stumbling block, and this, for others to jump on to whilst navigating the shady and murky waters part of WoF
It is unfair to hush sounding the alarm on the vices, trickeries, distastefulness and disgracefulness perpetrated in WoF circles
- Note I always say eat the chicken but spit out the bones

Remember, no one has said do not but had all from the beginning just highlighted and pointed out what to watch out for if at all anyone is travelling down/on the WoF route

In order for "evil" to prevail, all that need happen is for "good" people to say nothing or do nothing

I have no qualms admitting being blessed by anyone, but its only just a page away that nannymcphee had agreed that there are issues with and/or within WoF doctrinated, WoF influenced, unconsciously WoF influenced, hardcore WoF, subtle WoF related, WoF wannabe churches, individuals, or setups.
- As for you and mostly others, everything is hunky-dory in WoF land. WoF is scam free. WoF don't do fake miracles, WoF don't do staged healings. WoF don't obtain money under false pretenses etc

At least we have that in common
- blessed and had some blinders lifted by Myles Munroe
Myles Munroe among others (i.e. not even WoF affliated) happened to be somewhat of an enlightener to me, as I earlier said he made sense of certain issues for me
Myles Munroe is still warm in the grave, so respect my wish not to talk about him or his affairs
Thank you sir.

Gombs:
Stop showing, identifying and pointing out, start teaching, leading and demonstrating for us to copy!
Write your own book or gather your own brethren with the true gospel you have..until then, you lot are jokers

^^^
As long as I have breath, will continue to be "showing, identifying and pointing out, start teaching, leading and demonstrating..."
Already done and to God be the glory. The jokers are somebody else

Gombs:
Simple and concise...that's all I'm asking. Talk is cheap, he should quit typing and show us how it should be done in action.
Funny anyone he does not like is WoF related.

God bless you!

I like and love you, despite you been WoF influenced or in your word, WoF related.
God bless you!
Welcome and enjoy your short stay in obodo Las Gidi!!

nannymcphee:
Dont tell me you didnt understand the question i asked

Dont take that word "systematically" in isolation

Paul wasnt counseling them there!!!!

Dr myles Munroe counseled presidents of nations, you think he didnt preach christ to them, how do you offer guidance to your superiors in your workplace? so for every challenge that comes up, you keep telling them about jesus or reminding them that if they had given their hearts to christ they would have known what to do

Paul knew what his most important consideration and priorities were

Counselling presidents of nations indeed
- Please don't go naive on me

Also at this juncture, I am drawing the line as I am not going to further entertain exchanges with you on Myles Munroe

nannymcphee:
we agree that some ministers have done and are doing the above points listed,
but we are talking about Dr Myles Munroe for now. you are grouping everyone under this WOF umbrella

I have to go with Gombs on this

Its not enough to criticize, you show the way!!! show how it ought to be done

dont just sit on the sidewalks and criticize!!

write the book, pastor the church, preach the gospel the way it ought to be preached... then come tell us to learn from you

Agreeing that "some ministers have done and are doing the above points listed" is half the battle is won.
- Glad to read the agreement

I have no grouse with Dr Myles Munro, especially now that he has moved on
- situation brought his mention on this thread.

No one is "grouping everyone under this WoF umbrella"
- it is the pig that gets its head stucked in the fence that squeals

Not so fast Watson. Showing, identifying and pointing out, is not criticizing but is giving advance warning and cautionary signs

We wouldnt be having this exchange if "sitting on the sidewalks..."

Just like Father Abraham told Lazarus, if they wouldnt pay attention now or take notice of the warnings now "writing the book, pastoring the church, preaching the gospel the way it ought to be preached... then come tell us to learn from you" would have no benefit

nannymcphee:
you are not getting my point, lets assusme Ban ki moon(UN SEC GEN) or Iranian President, meets you for counsel on matters concerning their state, how will you counsel them? is that the time to preach the gospel to them? to tell them that when & if they give accept the lordship of jesus, their problem will be over? is that it?

Was that what Joseph did to Pharaoh? to tell him about Jehovah and how great he was?

what about Daniel?

there are minister who counsel leaders of industry, presidents of nations and associations on a constant basis, providing counsel/solutions to their problem while systematically preaching the gospel to them!!

Yes, according to 2 Corinthians 6:2, it is the time to preach the gospel to them, just like Paul did below...

²⁴Suddenly, Festus shouted, “Paul, you are insane. Too much study has made you crazy!”

²⁵But Paul replied, “I am not insane, Most Excellent Festus. What I am saying is the sober truth.
²⁶And King Agrippa knows about these things. I speak boldly, for I am sure these events are all familiar to him, for they were not done in a corner!
²⁷King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know you do—”

²⁸Agrippa interrupted him. “Do you think you can persuade me to become a Christian so quickly?”

²⁹Paul replied,
“Whether quickly or not, I pray to God that both you and everyone here in this audience might become the same as I am, except for these chains.”

- Acts 26:25-29 NLT

nannymcphee:
Pls go thru this website
https://mylesmunroeinternational.com/about-us/mylesmunroeinternational/
it will give you clarity, this is not his church's website

^^^
Not judging or picking on Myles Munroe, especially since, I've picked up one or two from him that gave me clarity in areas I sought understanding etc in. By and large Myles Munroe's teachings were kosher, and if there were any that weren't I usually chew them, spit their bones out and don't swallow.

The thing about Myles Munroe is the hustling aspect, the narcissism and the fraternizing with WoF because of lucre
It was getting or becoming alarming lately, with the depth of an increasingly hustling ‎by him across the African churches and third world nations, especially the African ones etc

Thank God it wasn't a painful death for him or any of the other guys, as the eye witness report say it was sudden, and that they didn't have to suffer‎ etc

May all RIP
- death, it just puts things into perspective

---

- EXCERPT -

Then they said,
"Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens,
so that we may make a name for ourselves;
otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth."
- Genesis 11:4 NIV

Then they said,
"Come, let's build a great city for ourselves with a tower that reaches into the sky.
This will make us famous and keep us from being scattered all over the world."
- Genesis 11:4 NLT

Who personalises the Gospel and/or names God's work, business or ministry after themselves.?
Well, this is a common practice among WoF adherents/proponents
To them, it is like as if their names have some sort of "anointing", "power" etc hence the reason for the naming of God's work etcetera after themselves, though individual WoF names wont be mentioned, the spirit behind it will be.

The Tower of Babel/Nimrod spirit is the principality behind these personalities making name(s) for themselves, lapping up adulation, lapping up idolization, lapping up fame, and/or building empires (e.g. multi-million dollar church ministry/church building/television ministry etc)

The influence of the Tower of Babel/Nimrod spirit is so strong, that those personalising the Gospel become bold enough to name the labour of love and work of the Kingdom after themselves (e.g. Pastor XYZ Media Ministries, Pastor Joe Bloggs Ministries etc)
The labour of love, work of the Gospel, Bibles, institutions (e.g. universities etc) are named after them whilst alive and not even posthumously

They personalise the gospel enough, that it is unavoidably evident that the "ministries" are one-man shows and/or operations, which after the namesakes dies, will decrease and gradually fade out before coming to an end because they are personality and not God driven ministries

They personalise the gospel to perfection, they even have personnels or “armour-bearers” to carry their personals (e.g. umbrellas, mobile phones, Bibles, hymn books, man-purse etc)
They don’t travel any more different than the next person, but are bent on acquiring personal jet to move about.

They've personalised the gospel enough to cling on, dearly to positions, forming MOG, and claiming release or exception from stepping down or submitting to counseling during/after divorce or separation (i.e. they are above that)
Personalised the gospel enough that extramarital affairs, divorce and/or separation is OK, as the demands of the ministry takes heavy tolls on marriages.
Personalised the gospel enough for personal enrichment through living off tithes and offerings, seed money, first fruits offering etc and through misinterpreting and misquoting bible verses and twisting the bible for other ulterior and financial motives

They have become so self absorbed hence the dependence on and/or trust in their own names as opposed to trusting in Jesus' name
They personalised the gospel by adding letters after their titles or have initials following their names, so as to be above and have authority over common person

Personalised the gospel enough that they have become the focus of a substantial/significant cult following of die-hards
They have a following of people, draw attention to themselves instead of constantly pointing others to Jesus

They advertise retreats, revivals, conferences on buses, tabloids, TV channels, magazines etc personalised with their pictures prominently displayed on the adverts, flyers, billboards etc
Their visits to other gatherings are personal to them, as they expect to have either a seat on the altar or a front row cushioned seat.

They promote their books, always called a “your life will never be the same best seller” even though it's not
Also one of the main reasons for personalising the Gospel, is to separate and legally guarantee that the incomes/revenues generated from authorship (i.e. proceeds of books sales etc) are exclusively for them and not for the "church"

Resorting to self-image (i.e. elevating self instead of elevating God) and when names are put on things, points to the person
but in this business of the Father, the rule of thumb is to always point to Jesus Christ whom we are supposed to be serving and not us
Afterall when the dust settles, one name remains above every name (i.e. Jesus')
and only what is done for and/or named after Jesus will last

- /EXCERPT -
PERSONALIZING THE GOSPEL
https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/23#26653664

BabaGnoni:
The shelf life occurs for the things mentioned above at the other side of the part of life or eternity
- there, they will be no need for money, no need for healing, no need wealth, no need for prophecy, no need for miracles etc. No need at that side.

"the time for such to be immaterial" sic, is undeniable or unquestionable

What really, exactly or specifically is what you "may not agree with is what people interpret as the time for such to be immaterial." sic

mbaemeka:
Some say they are already immaterial now. You are different. You say it is on the other side of eternity and I agree with that.

mbaemeka:
Huh?

I said the et al would be immaterial on the other side of eternity because I understood that to be your position and I agreed with it.
If that is not your position let me know so I can retract my agreement with you.

This is what happens when ducking questions (i.e. my question like "What really, exactly or specifically is what you "may not agree with is what people interpret as the time for such to be immaterial."" sic)

No answers to when I asked what are not unimportant now, what is it that some say are already not important now.

I haven't asked what you and I agree on yet, just wanted to know what the are is, which you say SOME claim to be already not important now.

My position with a few list given, is unambiguous on what becomes immaterial on the other side of eternity
- it is crystal clear enough that it doesn't require affirmation, validation or endorsement nor need duress of agreement retration