₦airaland Forum

Pennywise:
And you are being rude.

At the end of the day it comes down to a coy's choices, vision (that I consider warped in the face of available options) and its resources. There are precedents in history where extremely wealthy corporations have embarked on needlessly risky even crazy undertakings in developed climes. But taking on the atlantic Ocean in an impoverished third world neighborhood because you have a few borrowed dollars is not a well 'mitigated' risk as far as I am concerned.

A responsible govt owes a duty to its citizens to ensure that needless, flamboyant and potentially dangerous undertakings like this are discouraged through punitive taxes.

The future of Lagos business district may yet lie in the forests of Ikorodu and not even in the atlantic. Even the dutch will tell you that taking on the Ocean is not an easy undertaking. Whether in reclamations or rigs lives are lost frequently in construction and when the Ocean says its payback time.

Pennywise:
And you are being rude.

At the end of the day it comes down to a coy's choices, vision (that I consider warped in the face of available options) and its resources. There are precedents in history where extremely wealthy corporations have embarked on needlessly risky even crazy undertakings in developed climes. But taking on the atlantic Ocean in an impoverished third world neighborhood because you have a few borrowed dollars is not a well 'mitigated' risk as far as I am concerned.

A responsible govt owes a duty to its citizens to ensure that needless, flamboyant and potentially dangerous undertakings like this are discouraged through punitive taxes.

The future of Lagos business district may yet lie in the forests of Ikorodu and not even in the atlantic. Even the dutch will tell you that taking on the Ocean is not an easy undertaking. Whether in reclamations or rigs lives are lost frequently in construction and when the Ocean says its payback time.

Sky Blue:
What do you understand by the phrase "most common"? Does that me an it can't happen in regions without high concentrations of limestone?

ode remo:
becos half a dozen grasshoppers under a fern make field ring with their importunate chink whilst thousands of great cattle reposed beneath the shadow of the british oak, chew the cud and are silent, pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field.
EDMUND BURKE.1790

blacksta:
Ori oti fokasibe - omo ode

blacksta:
For goodness sake it is not a sink hole and it is the Area boy turned Civil engineer cutting corners

Pple may have contrary views to yours. It doesnt mke them dumb. I wasnt part of the BRT thread and so would nt know what went down. I do know that Some Fashola's ideas though are weired, unrealistic and sometimes plain crazy like the cctv project (I like to know how much the good pple of Lagos got bilked on that one).

Aloy_Emeka:
This is not only seen in Lagos but across Nigeria because our POLITICIANS/LEADERS take kickbacks thereby forcing contractors to invest only 5% of the amount billed for the project on it.

For those posting pictures of sinkholes in the West, did they even ask for the ages of those roads?. Must we measure all our failures with the west?. Can't we set the pace sometimes?. Looking at the one in Lagos, one can easily tell that they were  built with a substandard materials. The road is not thick enough to withstand common harmattan.

I don't like the idea of abusing Fashola tho but he should make sure he probes the project and hold the contractors accountable unless he has skeletons in his cupboard pertaining to the contract.

ode remo:
"
praise you? your ego is now Atlantic

i am objective, analytical and fair in my in my comments., but will not stoop low to name calling which is butter to bread for you.

ode remo:
i will let your insult pass, cos i know your age.
like i said b4, you dont have a reverse gear, thats your problem.

blacksta:
What causes sinkholes?

A sinkhole is a large depression in the Earth's surface, often shaped[b] like a well or a funnel[/b], that can be up to several miles in diameter. Sinkholes are most common [size=15pt]in limestone regions.[/size] Underground layers of limestone can be dissolved by groundwater or by seepage from above-ground streams.

http://www.enotes.com/science-fact-finder/earth/what-causes-sinkholes


I have seen a number of sink holes they all look round - The lagos one is not round and is not in a limestone area  it is simply substandard work

ode remo:
babapupa , so we are all illiterates now.
an injury is much sooner forgotten than an insult.{lord chesterfield 1746}
u start the mudsling oh.

tpiah:
^instead of panicking, an educated person will look at what went wrong and analyze the soil.

that's why oyibos always seem to get sense past nigerians.

OAM4J:
Exactly, like i told ezeagu, he must be a genius to think the Governor should simply tell any investor that want to build a 'Paradise-City' in Lagos state to either support/invest in his 'pressing' state projects  or go to hell with his billions

Ezeogu.
Your head didn't decipher this one. The government asked for this project knowing well what other, more vital projects should have been taken up instead, they had the right to disagree with the project because it is their shoreline. This what I wanted to confirm

Onlytruth:
This is the most cogent reason why I was asking hard questions about the Eko Atlantic City. In my own research I found out that the city will have a sea wall (Levy) about 7 meters high. I wondered whether the planners considered this future sea level scenario.

Secondly, I had thought that the entire Lagos state needed a "comprehensive" sea wall that protects the whole state against future sea level increases. This is what I expected from a well thought out physical planning strategy (urban, regional, state and even national to cover places like Niger delta). I have not seen any such plans yet.

Nigeria being what it is, people are more interested in mega projects even if they aggravate the existing problems.

paddy_lo:
[b]Sigh u are talking BS. . .
First of all,if anything this project is a Goldmine for the developers

Secondly this has very little to do with New York or London as Majority of the funds come from Nigerian Banks

Also your analogy to dubai is wrong,because the GOVT of dubai through its investment arms were the ones pushing most of the over development going on there
Therefore when the dubai investment arm(Mubadala),and others,choked on its debts,it threatened to affect the whole of dubai if nothing was done. . .

Thats why the Govt had to step in. . .

Your analogy would be right if say the Nigerian Govt backed NNPC was issuing dollar bonds on the international markets to over invest on refineries/petrochemicals/oil exploration and so on
and then if oil prices collapsed(hypothetically) NNPC and Nigeria would be on the hook for those over investments,as the yields on those would rise sharply,making NNPC unable to service its dollar debts

Now u may not be aware but Nigerias Financial landscape has changed tremendously,
Local companies now issue local Naira denominated corporate bonds
Nigerian banks are also large enough to finance huge projects on their own from their balance sheets. . .

The Nigerian central bank,in consortium with 8 Nigerian banks also set up a brand new Investment bank(in 2007) with a dollar Balance sheet
The African Finance Corporation has a $1billion dollar paid up capital,and does Its Financing in dollars of projects in Nigeria and West Africa
click here to learn more about AFC. . . .http://www.africafc.org/
AFC can also utilize leverage so it can fund projects to the tune of $10billion

The point is that Nigeria has the funds inside Nigeria to Finance its own development these days

So dont come here spewing  grammer like SOCIALIZED LOSSES as if u just learnt that yesterday
[/b]

paddy_lo:
[b]Sigh u are talking BS. . .
First of all,if anything this project is a Goldmine for the developers

Secondly this has very little to do with New York or London as Majority of the funds come from Nigerian Banks

Also your analogy to dubai is wrong,because the GOVT of dubai through its investment arms were the ones pushing most of the over development going on there
Therefore when the dubai investment arm(Mubadala),and others,choked on its debts,it threatened to affect the whole of dubai if nothing was done. . .

Thats why the Govt had to step in. . .

Your analogy would be right if say the Nigerian Govt backed NNPC was issuing dollar bonds on the international markets to over invest on refineries/petrochemicals/oil exploration and so on
and then if oil prices collapsed(hypothetically) NNPC and Nigeria would be on the hook for those over investments,as the yields on those bonds would rise sharply,making NNPC unable to service its dollar debts

Now u may not be aware but Nigerias Financial landscape has changed tremendously,
Local companies now issue local Naira denominated corporate bonds
Nigerian banks are also large enough to finance huge projects on their own from their balance sheets. . .

The Nigerian central bank,in consortium with 8 Nigerian banks also set up a brand new Investment bank(in 2007) with a dollar Balance sheet
The African Finance Corporation has a $1billion dollar paid up capital,and does Its Financing in dollars of projects in Nigeria and West Africa
click here to learn more about AFC. . . .http://www.africafc.org/
AFC can also utilize leverage so it can fund projects to the tune of $10billion

The point is that Nigeria has the funds inside Nigeria to Finance its own development these days

So dont come here spewing  grammer like SOCIALIZED LOSSES as if u just learnt that yesterday
[/b]

SSaemoenl:
I love this Gesture, but my concern is HOW MANY AVERAGE NIGERIANS ARE GOING TO LIVE IN THIS CITY? _{They are just building a city for our thieving politicians}

GAR3TH:
we already knew that this was only an infrastructure project. and we knew that investors would have to develop the land. But why do you make it seem that this project over glorified? is there something i need to know? this is not an "estate" its a city. . .a central business district. You make it sound like they are going to build 2 storey houses, while infact you are wrong. This city would be home to high-rises and skyscrapers. you do realize that their are zoning laws right

joeyfire:
@babapupa

I am torn between descending to your level of trading insults like an illiterate meal seller and responding to your questions in a mature and objective manner. Well I think I'm more inclined to the latter. For the record my guy, this is a forum for information sharing so DIVERGENT views will always come. Eat it or throw it away.

I cant find a shred of sense in your post but I will help you out with facts. The Lagos State Ministry of Waterfront and Infrastructural Development expended the sum of N7BN fixing the shoreline and  since the project was announced as completed, there have been instances of the water breaching the barriers. I can understand a couple of decades but a few months is unnaceptable to me because I'm a diligent taxpayer. You said ''the best shoreline protection folks'' are doing the shoreline I'll love to hear who they are if you REALLY know who they are and not just bawling out.

Also you mentioned roads, bridges, health centres etc being constructed I'd like to ask you can you name three major roads, hospitals that have been built. Let me ask you,have you been to a General hospital lately? I tell you the one on Broad Street is run down (it was relaunched about two years ago). The Lekki - epe Expressway project has been on for five years and has only managed to move from Law school to lekki phase 1 (2% of the project)after the Billions spent. For your info it is also a private project since it was concessioned to LCC but the masses will pay for it in tolls for 30 years. Just to clarify something - the builders, lawyers, engineers and so on are part of the same gang and besides the temporary crumbs falling to the plates of the footworkers, the big bucks will go to the bosses. Road building and construction is NOT a sustainable source of employment. Why cant the government you're foaming at the mouth to defend, start companies or industries that will employ people for ever.

paddy_lo:
^^
@babapupa
[b]
Not to talk of realtors,Lawyers,Furniture makers(to service new apartments/high-rises),cement manufacturers,Tourism from new hotels built in the area,bars,clubs

Just the damn multiplier effect from having a huge construction project on going in the city. . .

Hell even Obama was screaming and looking for shovel ready projects to spend his stimulus dollars on

Well in Eko Atlantic we have one huge Shovel ready project ongoing,that will stimulate the state economy for decades[/b]

joeyfire:
@debosky

I'd love to ask - what makes you think that the money from the taxes on the project will be used to develop other areas of lagos. The billions raised every month in taxes hasnt translated to commensurate improvement in the rate, quality or maintenance of amenities. Rather there's been a lull. A visit to ajah which is my constituency will change your mind. You are right the project like every prioritised project by this administration is targeted at what , you said it - ''HIGH END INVESTORS''. I still believe that this government can afford to partnert with some investor to build DECENT medium income housing units in undeveloped tranches of land in places like EPE,Ikorodu, Okoko,etc

And for the record try googling Mega City and fashola in the same box and tell me that this government isnt sold on the idea and ''positioning'' the state

joeyfire:
@babapupa

Ok. I'm interested in knowing how the people behind this project are going to do things differently. Do you have any facts to share? as far as i know there've been insane amounts of money spent by the state government to protect our shoreline. I heard (a rumour though) that the same company that did the shoreline are involved with this eko atlantic thing. naturally i'm not encouraged. would you be?

joeyfire:
After seeing the incompetence that constituted the ''final solution'' to the overflowing atlantic on ahmadu bello way, i'm scared for residents of the floating city

Kobojunkie:
You know what, the above seems a good opinion on this project so far, except for the portions in bold.  That is still to be seen.