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PoliticsSouthern Nigeria: Greatest Contributor Of Slaves In History by babasolution(op): 3:33pm On Dec 21, 2022
Do you know that southern Nigeria are probably the most enslaved people in human history?

The Caribbean, SOUTH and NORTH America are today populated by Majority black people from today's southern Nigeria.

This region as been the most enslaved in all of human history,especially from the Portuguese era of 1450 to 1940 British era,that is full 400+ years of being hunted as slaves,10 good GENERATIONS ,even today are the highest victims of human trafficking.

Current situation and happenings in southern Nigeria can clearly reveal why it's people were about the most enslaved in human history.

Take a look at the political decisions,THEY are competing among themselves on which side will outsell themselves out to the northern fulani hegemony.

Their natural resources are stolen under their feet.

They are men are emasculated ,with their women having more ECONOMIC power that the men.Their economy is female driven.

They prefer to employ and empower their women and live their men to be Ragtag's.
Just Check out the number of females that drive good cars and work in offices in Lagos as against the men.

Their wives and daughters are wh*res( character of women who betrayed their men to enslavers,many white men took southern Nigerian women as sex slaves ,these women sold out secrets to the whites)

Southern Nigerian men are pure simps
All their history as been slavery slavery slavery.

All the tribes there- Igbo,Yoruba, edo,urhobo, ijaw,efik,Ibibio, etc had their ancestors brothers and sisters sold as slaves.Till today they are still slaves in their country,with the Fulani treating them like second class citizens, denying them of basic rights and killing them with impunity. They can't enjoy even what's on their land,Their destiny is in the hands on their new coloniser,the Fulani.
PoliticsRe: Southern Nigerian Men Have Lost Control by babasolution(op): 3:00pm On Dec 21, 2022
ShinnBet:
My friend GI and sit down

This is all a subtle name and shame appeal to get every southerner behind an Igbo candidate .

I am not voting either obi nor Tinubu but the best candidate Atiku.

Idiots like you will be quick to deploy tribalism when you want it and cry about sane tribalism when we expose your Igbo agenda under the DisObidient mob.

You fool no one.
Go n die,this is typically southern male character like woman
PoliticsRe: Southerners Are Never Tired Of Slavery: A Case For Peter Obi by babasolution(op): 2:50pm On Dec 21, 2022
SIONKPO1:
Nice write up but to be sincere South West sold out other Southerners to the North.
In case it results to Violence the South-South and South-EAST and more prepared to fight off expansionist agenda of the fulani's compared to the south west that don't have experience for Guerilla war.
It will be nice BAT,Obi and other Southern Stakeholders seat down and talk and agree.South can't continue this way
Fulani expansionism is no more frontal confrontation and violence, they rely more on economic strangulation and deprivation, they have used it on the Hausa successfully, they are trying to implement it on other tribes. Allowing the Fulani unfettered political control is suicidal by the south.

Southern men have been emasculated,they don't understand power anymore
PoliticsRe: Southern Nigerian Men Have Lost Control by babasolution(op): 2:44pm On Dec 21, 2022
ShinnBet:
The stale Fulani bogeyman that the Igbo uses to advance for an Igbo presidency .

FYI, the Igbo is not in anyway a southerner as their political history is replicate with series of aligning with the north at the detriment of the south especially in the area of resource control .

You should stop using "Southerner" and Christian umbrella since you havecshown severally that you are against the aspirations of the south and also that you are no longer considered Christian owing to your mass conversion to Judaism and Igbo voodoo religion.

Try another bait for your Igbo presidency campaign.
This is not about presidency shit,this is the reality with southern males,they appear emasculated
PoliticsRe: Southern Nigerian Men Have Lost Control by babasolution(op): 2:15pm On Dec 21, 2022
Zandena:
They decide what happens even in the other room!
If you want her and she says No and you eventually had your way she calls you a rapist and can charge you for what she now refers to as 'spousal rape or abuse '
Look at how southern women are now competing in cleavage exposure, who expose it more is termed as most beautiful and sexy. And the list is endless!
Southern men have been emasculated by their women folks!
True talk,southern men are now basically emasculated,funny thing many of them do not realise it yet.They are still in fools paradise, denying reality
PoliticsRe: Southerners Are Never Tired Of Slavery: A Case For Peter Obi by babasolution(op): 2:08pm On Dec 21, 2022
Uchek:
Did the Yoruba get the memo when they aligned with the North to defeat Jonathan. It is the Yoruba who sold their birthright for Emi lo kan's ambition that will cry if Atiku come to power. The Igbos are already down and fear no fall.
Mumu sit at home never tire una yet
PoliticsSouthern Nigerian Men Have Lost Control by babasolution(op): 2:07am On Dec 21, 2022
Southern Nigerian men have lost control of everything that should make them men.

Politically they are steadily loosing control with the Fulani consolidating their own power.

Economically southern men are also loosing out,now mostly to their women as they are loosing ground with their women gradually gaining more economic power and control ,taking over southern Nigerian economy.
Southern women fill the corporate world,entertainment(Nollywood is essentially female driven and controlled),sports etc.There's hardly any male dominated institution down south anymore.

Southern Nigeria men are really going down south.

They have lost control of their daughters and wives,now southern women are just so loose and are basically wh*res ,their fathers and husbands have no control over them,they can expose themselves publicly without any shame,they've totally let loose.Take for eg. the popular Korra girl, imagine despite are loose display all over the internet ,her dad is following her like a pig.This is can not happen among the Fulani,who are still real men.

It appears Christianity is a smokescreen for male emasculation.

Southern men have totally lost it,they are loosing their essence as men,if this continues I don't know how the future is gonna look like for them.

It's a sorry situation indeed.
PoliticsRe: Southerners Are Never Tired Of Slavery: A Case For Peter Obi by babasolution(op): 11:03pm On Dec 20, 2022
DMerciful:
Its the turn of the East and is the East will not have it then let the Fulani continue. There is nothing like South. We have North, East and West at independence!
Be doing mumu let Fulani continue there,after all its your people they are killing in Enugu. Mumu people
PoliticsRe: Southerners Are Never Tired Of Slavery: A Case For Peter Obi by babasolution(op): 6:44pm On Dec 20, 2022
PeterObi4LP:
We don't care until the South get sense. If Peter Obi can't have it, let the presidency remain in North for the next 100yrs we no send.

Las las everybody go die someday and leave this country behind.
I am not from the south,but I dislike the Fulani system and grip on Nigeria, yet you FOOLISH southerners like to mess around.keep messing up fools
PoliticsRe: Southerners Are Never Tired Of Slavery: A Case For Peter Obi by babasolution(op): 4:04pm On Dec 20, 2022
chucks185:
if it's by turn according to you, then it should be south-east's turn.
it is not justifiable for a south-westerner to contest.
Whether southwest or southeast or even south south is not the issue,if you keep playing this stupid games, you'll die eventually. Any southerner will do
PoliticsSoutherners Are Never Tired Of Slavery: A Case For Peter Obi by babasolution(op): 3:47pm On Dec 20, 2022
Buhari the Fulani, had 12,million northern mainly from the core Fulani controlled Hausa regions votes that he ran with consistently.

Despite his failures they stuck with him,when he now found the political trick to win by aligning with the southwest he eventually won and became the president.

In the past 7 years buhari has indeed paid the northern Fulani controlled region for their support.

Billions were given them for supposed " cattle ranching" ( no one talks about this).

NEDC the north east development commission was created and being funded by billions every year to take care of people who don't contribute to the national treasure in any way instead have cost Nigeria billions through the bokoharam insurgency,depriving other regions of needed funds.

He has placed Fulani people in all federal agencies and the control juicy sums and contracts.

He has found oil for them in gombe.

He has given the peasant herder Fulani free reign to take over any land of their choice by killing indigenous peoples with military cover.

Any one that says the north hasn't benefitted from their Fulani reign are jokers.

Now that it's time for the south to emerge having been patient all these while despite their deliberate impoverishment from the Center.

The PDP brought in another Fulani to give them more power to consolidate and benefit further.

The southerners there are giving all sorts of lame excuses thinking they are fooling us.Infact many of them supporting this Fulani to Fulani transition will not benefit.Once Atiku enters many of them will be replaced by a Fulani for appointments.

The southerners are making a cost political suicide by supporting a Fulani to Fulani transition.

This election should have been between two southerners.

Now even with Peter obi's emergence his people are generally not supporting him ,they are doing their best to kill his campaign expecting Atiku to reward them or waiting for after 8years which they aren't even sure they would be alive to witness.

Instead of them to rally round their brother,they are foolishly expecting a Fulani to favor them.

Look a Fulani to Fulani transition will be the greatest regret of southern Nigeria no matter how you see it.From any point of view southerners will regret allowing a Fulani to Fulani transition. It will cost them dearly.

It election is the turn of the south,any were in the south.It's not a Yoruba Igbo rivalry thing.

If the south cannot put their MAN as president come 2023.

They will be making a bitter costly mistake that will affect them and generations to come.
It's certain there no middle ground here.

The Igbo who think they can survive under a type of government will get a huge shocker eventually.

The Yoruba who think they can survive with Lagos will be shocked.

The nigerdelta who think they have oil will be surprised.

The Fulani aren't playing,they are not jokers.

The south hasn't gotten the memo yet.
PoliticsRe: Is Lokoja Really The Worst Capital In Nigeria? by babasolution(op): 2:22pm On Dec 20, 2022
peterbello:
I live there. Though have been in Minna for the past 3 weeks. The second picture now has a flyover at that location. Lokoja has no space to lay a road that wide like in the third picture.
Give your accurate accessment of lokoja as a city
PoliticsRe: Is Lokoja Really The Worst Capital In Nigeria? by babasolution(op): 10:54am On Dec 20, 2022
peterbello:
Rubbish, compared to other states. That third picture is not Lokoja.
Are you in lokoja presently ?
PoliticsRe: Is Lokoja Really The Worst Capital In Nigeria? by babasolution(op): 10:47am On Dec 20, 2022
aylipple:
The bolded isn't entirely true. Have you forgotten Eyitayo Lambo or Bayo Ojo (SAN)? These men durinh their times in the FEC were powerful ministers, occupied juicy ministries & had the then President's ears.

For National Assembly, men like Tunde Ogbeha, Dino Melaye & Smart Adeyemi by all means were not push overs in the Senate.

There are others too numerous to mention.
These guys are all okun who do not have strong influence in kogi yet,they are restricted to kogi West also they were ministry of health and justice which are not strong for infrastructure like works,power,Agriculture etc
PoliticsRe: Is Lokoja Really The Worst Capital In Nigeria? by babasolution(op): 10:01am On Dec 20, 2022
8stargeneral:
No doubt lokoja is the worst capital state in Nigeria...I passed there last week I was like ....is this a state capital or what...shame to their politicians representing them
You passed you didn't stay,you might have had very limited view of the outskirts
PoliticsRe: Is Lokoja Really The Worst Capital In Nigeria? by babasolution(op): 9:58am On Dec 20, 2022
Moh247:
I think it's time Kogi try an Okun man, maybe James Faleke
But okun area seems less developed than other regions in kogi
PoliticsNigerian Tribes Look On While Their Villages Become Burial Grounds by babasolution(op): 11:40pm On Dec 19, 2022
The extreme killings that go on in Nigerian villages is beyond human comprehension.

It defys human logic,that African men will do nothing as most of their villages and rural areas,even some cities have become burial grounds and killing fields of many nefarious groups chief of them the minority Fulani tribe.

The minority Fulani go all round Nigeria killing innocents while Nigerian men from major tribes sit on their hands.

Those in the cities are busy party's,programming, music ,movies and football while people are dying daily all around them.This can never happen among other races.

The Nigerian man is neither a protector or provider.

The Nigerian man is neither a leader or pioneer.

Major tribes are fooling themselves while the minority Fulani place their political wing in all strategic sectors of Nigeria., they gradually building their business wing buying banks ,telecom companies,airplanes and finding oil on their land.Their militant wing goes all around terrorizing people, killing and burn villages and taking over and renaming them.

They do all this while impoverishing other tribes including the stupid major tribes. They are causing chaos and forcing able people of other tribes to runaway from their god given lands through japa syndrome.

The major tribes are busy fooling themselves not knowing they are being gradually captured.

The Fulani now seek to consolidate their grip on the country on the backs of other tribes through a Fulani to Fulani transition.

Nigerias major tribes are honestly beyond belief.

The Fulani are giving a real live political lesson on total state capture of the Blackmales land. The few leading the many.They clearly show why the Blackmale is the weakest,poorest and dullest male on earth
PoliticsNigerias Travails Is Not The Fault Of The Masses,but Deliberately Wicked Leaders by babasolution(op): 6:07pm On Dec 19, 2022
So many times I hear people blame the masses accusing them of voting for tribal and religion sentiments or collecting money to vote bad leaders, I think this is not entirely the case in Nigeria.

Nigerians are intend to vote in good leaders,Nigerian masses vote in " supposedly " good leaders but these leaders fail them.

Take a critical assessment of Nigeria currently, starting from buharis emergence as president.

Majority that voted for Buhari actually really thought he will be a good leader, they thought he was Mr integrity and incorruptible. They thought he would stop corruption and help the masses given his past antecedent as a no nonsense military ruler and his consistency in running to be President as an opposition.

Even the north I think actually mass voted him not to for religious or tribal reasons but they thought he'd help them.

Jonathans record with corruption was terrible.

Fortunately buhari turned his back on everyone including the northerners they were deceived.

Obasanjo was voted in ,in good faith too but he was not steller in his performance.

Yaradua,Jonathan were all touted to be good but they failed.

Down to governors, many vote governors with reasonable credentials but many go ahead to fail.

Eg soludo so far,obaseki,okowa,etc these men all seemed like very credible persons to do great things but they fail the people.

Nigerias elite are just wicked people,they really do not mean well for the people.

The elites deliberately chose bad candidates to put the Nigerian masses in a fix especially presidential elections, these strategy was introduced by Obasanjo in the military and civilian era.

Nigerians usually are left with poor choices,but when they see a credible candidate they really around such person eg Peter obi.

I fear and hope Peter obi doesn't fail Nigerians if he wins.

The Nigerian elite do not mean well for Nigeria for whatever reasons best known to them,they deliberately don't want Nigeria to prosper and develop.

There's nothing stopping Nigeria from developing other than its elite,especially political and military and even intellectual elite.Only the professional and business elite are probably quite different.

It's totally deliberate
PoliticsRe: Is Lokoja Really The Worst Capital In Nigeria? by babasolution(op): 2:23pm On Dec 19, 2022
cpu2006:
We all know you are from Kabba, not from Lokoja. But, bro Lokoja is the worst state capital in Nigeria.!!!!!!!
Give reasons why it's the worst
PoliticsRe: Is Lokoja Really The Worst Capital In Nigeria? by babasolution(op): 1:10pm On Dec 19, 2022
hakeemhakeem:
On federal representative every States have equal representatives and ministerial each States most also represents. Bad governs cut across Nigeria because those governors are doing below par with the resources they have at hand.they lack prowess to use the human capital and natural resources within their reach
Some states have ministers with stronger portfolios.

When as there been a federal minister from kogi with a strong portfolio that is a big ministry.In this buharis government kogi state as only been represented by the FCT minister of state, that is a deputy minister of a ministry that is limited in scope
PoliticsRe: Is Lokoja Really The Worst Capital In Nigeria? by babasolution(op): 1:07pm On Dec 19, 2022
Jokerman:
Lokoja is actually the worse in Nigeria
Give reasons
PoliticsIs Lokoja Really The Worst Capital In Nigeria? by babasolution(op): 10:22am On Dec 19, 2022
Have seen several threads and comments were lokoja is described as the worst capital in Nigeria and the most underdeveloped.

But is this really true given the situation of kogi.

Kogi state is composed of minority tribes who do not have strong representatives at the federal. How many strong kogi ministers have there been since 1999.

The federal investments in kogi such as the ajoakuta steel are moribund.The state investments like the dangote cement factory are doing relatively well but it's not enough.

Kogi population is relatively low with different tribes who stay more in their localities than in the capital, that's why I think lokoja is small.

Most kogi people either reside in Abuja or in their hometowns not in lokoja.

Have been in kogi before like over ten years back,I think the state is cool and quite organised. It just needs work on the roads which are particularly bad and clean up.

Lokoja is not bad as people paint it,most people that travel through lokoja only see the outskirts and assume that's how the whole town is.

Lokoja is a small town but not as bad as painted given the situation of the state itself

PoliticsWill The Igbos Now Quit Blaming Yorubas/tinubu? by babasolution(op): 11:18am On Dec 17, 2022
Through out Buharis tenure since 2015,Yorubas have been derided by igbos mainly online and often times offline that they betrayed the south to enthrone the Fulani.
Tinubu as taken the most hit by the igbos down to the primaries for 2023 elections were even the igbos in the cabinet of Buhari made statements alluding to betrayal by the Yorubas saying it's their turn and the ticket should be handed to them.

They never faced the PDP for choosing Atiku another Fulani instead of an Igbo despite the Igbo giving their votes traditionally to the PDP.

No one expected Peter obi an Igbo to contest or even become a strong contender,now that he is a front runner in the race,we are seeing a surprising rejection of Peter Obi by most Igbo elites and substantial number of Igbo citizens.

What is happening, how come the Igbo are now rejecting their own person after many years of crying marginalisation and accusing others especially the Yoruba of maligning them.

They prefer Atiku who as been insulting them and their traditional institutions. Atiku can confidently say in Akwa deep in Igbo land that igbos can only get presidency through him,while they sat there hailing and clapping.

We did not expect this from the igbo,can the Igbo now admit that their tirade against the Yoruba and TINUBU as been from a place of hatred and deep seated envy and animosity.
Can they now admit they are poor in playing politics,can they now admit they are their own problems and can they finally apologies to the Yorubas and put a final stop to Yoruba insult.

Am not Yoruba,but these are the facts.
The igbos are a disappointment.
PoliticsIf Southern Nigeria Want Real Progress, They Should Allow Female Governors by babasolution(op): 6:40pm On Dec 16, 2022
I think female governors will be the game changer to southern Nigeria peace , progress and prosperity.

I think female governors will raise the bar on governance in southern Nigeria that will liberate the south.

The females will confidently overthrow Fulani rule and control. That southern Nigerian male governors have been subserviently suffocating under.

They will accomplish a lot and fundamentally develop any state they govern.

Theres a drive southern females have that their men lack.

Southern men lack capacity, they are poorly educated,yet full of ego and arrogance.

There are in a whole not really that capable as men when compared to other races.

Whites ,Arabs,Chinese and Indians easily dominate them on their own turf.
This trait is not found in men of other races.

No other race accepts subservience like black males and particularly in Nigeria like southern men.


Southern men are so comfortable in subservience to the Fulani and other races

Also southern men don't mind destroying and sacrificing their own people for pecuniary gains, it's this attitude that led to the historical slavery of Black major coastal tribes.where they were always willing and ready to sell their people or neighbours to slavery for cheap gains.

Black slaves where of unlimited supply because black men never thought it wise to stop it until white men did.


This attitude still retains in southern Nigerian men.They are still retaining this status as source of slaves by pauperisation of their people(japa syndrome) and subservience to Fulani control.



Southern Nigerian women are way stronger,smarter and better leaders than their men.

Unlocking female leadership in the south will leapfrog southern Nigeria to a developed economy.

It will come at the cost of end to black male dominance though,as black men will be finally shown to be in effective slobs.

Is this a risk southern men can take if they really desire to be like first world countries that they all dream for?

It's now obvious that black men can't deliver this, let the black female takeover and deliver
PoliticsRe: It’ll Take North 40 Years To Catch Up With South - World Bank by babasolution: 9:28am On Dec 16, 2022
The south should focus on themselves and further improve their lots.This northern poverty talk is just a plot to keep allocating more resources to the north.
PoliticsCould Soludo And His Likes Be Freemasons? by babasolution(op): 5:58pm On Dec 15, 2022
The Igbo elite lack of support for Peter obi especially the Anambra state governor soludos open rejection of his fellow state man bid to become the president is strange.

Soludos seems to be doing the inside man job of crippling the ambition and aspirations of his people.

According to conspiracy theory, this seems to be the modus operandi of system hands,a kind of freemasonic occultic practice whereby people sacrifice and destroy their own for the good of their system.

Soludo looks like a man that got to wherever he is based on his loyalty to a particular order and must be loyal to that order and do whatever they want irrespective of how he truly feels.It's like he has no choice in the matter.like he must take the fall to prove his loyalty.

Soludo seems he is bond to the Fulani elites.
Many other southern leaders seem to be in the same situation.

Could there be more than meets the eye or am I over thinking this?
PoliticsThe Time As Come For The BLACK Man To Invoke The Conqueror Spirit by babasolution(op): 3:29pm On Dec 12, 2022
The black man as been a weak victim for millennia.

Till this day he is treated like shit.

Even if our country and continent is not being ruled well that doesn't mean we should take shit.

Even if we japa that doesn't mean we should endure shit.

Look Africa is developing, no matter what you think,Congo Kinshasa is a great city,Luanda is wonderful, Abidjan is wow,Malabo,Bioko,Libreville is fascinating, Dakar is superb.

African man must begin to stop taking shit,

The black lives matter protest is so shit,it's a slave like protest.Do you need to protest before your life matters?

Black man wake up,stop taking shit from your governments and stop taking shit from other races.

It's time the black man embraces minimalism,shrewdness, growth out of poverty and eternal not internal violence and aggression. That is violence against other races when the need arises.

If they kill you one,kill them two.

This is my opinion,it must be respected.
PoliticsRe: LASG To Rebuild Igbosere High Court Burnt During Civil Unrest Of 2020 by babasolution: 3:19pm On Dec 12, 2022
kingthreat:
Say that in Isale eko
If I say that with just 50edo men ,we will recapture isale eko.Yoruba are lovers not fighters
PoliticsRe: LASG To Rebuild Igbosere High Court Burnt During Civil Unrest Of 2020 by babasolution: 3:07pm On Dec 12, 2022
kingthreat:
It shall never be well for every agent of destruction that wants to turn Yorubaland into the present South East.
Yorubas shall never kill fellow yorubamen in the name of sit at home or Yoruba Nation.
As for those who we accomodate that set our land on fire, may destruction visit you time and time again
God bless the Yoruba race.
LAGOS is not Yoruba land,rather it's Edo land
PoliticsIs There Something Wrong With The Black Male Brain?(nigeria Specific) by babasolution(op): 12:41am On Dec 12, 2022
Black men( males) are virtually the least accomplished men in the world through out history.

They were the most enslaved, and subjugated of all males in all the races of the world.

Surprisingly, the black male chooses to ignore this aspect of his history and carry's on like it's all good all the while treated like shit werever he goes.

I mean the black male should be angry at his past and desire more than any other race success,but this not the case.

Why is the black male brain so extremely docile,lacks fight,easily subjugated and controlled by other race of men.

Why are black males so weak.

To the extent that black movie action images are mostly portrayed by black women cos the black male doesn't evoke a fighting characteristic, no one rates the black male not even the black female.
PoliticsRe: Why Nigerians Should Stop Letting Themselves Used To Catch Cruise by babasolution(op): 6:07pm On Dec 11, 2022
rentAcock:
That's a lie unless you are referring to movies before the 21st century. In recent movies, Black characters are intentionally being kept alive until the very end of the movie to avoid any racist outcry.

Moroccans are Africans by geography whether they like it or not. But being African doesn't mean you have to be Black. You can be of Caucasian heritage and still be African. They can identify with Arabs just as a you agree to identify with igbo, hausa, yoruba or any other tribe. People are getting their feeling a hurt for no reason. If Sub-Saharan Africa was predominantly Arabs and the middle east was predominantly White, this would be a non-issue.
You need to watch modern movies carefully, it's quite subtle these days,you have to be attentive to notice it,most times it's not done to the main characters but mostly to supporting cast or even the "waka pass" characters,so you might not notice if you aren't attentive
PoliticsRe: Why Nigerians Should Stop Letting Themselves Used To Catch Cruise by babasolution(op): 2:48pm On Dec 11, 2022
holocron:
First of all, correct yourself to get your message right. It's not tribes, but Nations. We have Hausa nation, Yoruba nation etc not tribes. Do you call the Portuguese tribe? Yoruba nation at over 30million people far outnumber Portugal at just over 10million. Hausa nation population far outnumber the entire population of Ukraine. Yet you allow the colonial mentality to overshadow you into call African nations as tribes just because they are embedded into artificially created countries.

Morroco is a country of the Berber ethnic group or nationality who are indegenous to North Africa. This group have been participating actively in the history of the Mediterranean from the time of Ancient Rome to modern times. The only link they have with Arabs is the Moslem religion. They have many intermarriages with Arabs and also with subsaharan Africans.
It's not for you to say who mooroccans are,they say themselves they are Arabs,watch the commentary by their fans and players,also saying tribes or nations is just semantics, I can even say people's,the important thing is the point that Africans allow themselves to be messed with all the time

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