₦airaland Forum

This is one up on becomrich.

National debt is 3.8 billion dollars.

@OP. Without reading your your article, the title might be percieved as mischievous. Edit?

The first priority of the "destabilisation" should be a national conference (with a plan b if that fails).

I think there's too much emphasis on MEND, because the population of the Niger Delta is dwarfed by the majority groups, some sort of stand needs to be taken by the bigger stakeholders especially the Yoruba.
I have particularly mentioned the Yoruba because, Yoruba are the current oligarchy target in the weakening of the constituent parts of Nigeria in the favour of Arewa. It is obvious that they are currently being chucked out of all deserved positions of influence in the country and replaced with Northerners. Fashola makes a name by doing a good job? It only seems to ruffle the feathers of the oligarchy. MEND cannot put their foot down for that.

Having said the hard bits, I'll say it again that the whole of the South is better off uniting; we really can't have any MEND vs OPC type stupidity.

More than anything, it is time to reach out between Igbo and Yoruba and for both to reach out to the southern minorities (who have proven that they are capable of standing up for themselves - Ogboru coup and MEND).

A united south will win any argument, regardless of which way the country chooses to go.

Our security forces are in decay. Ojo cantonment is just across from Atlas Cove, but MEND spent up to 3 hours ensuring that everything was blown up. However, these security forces are good at beating civilians and letting off "accidental discharges".
It is a sad commentary on the state of Nigeria.

Some quotes from the article.

When contacted, the Director of Information, Nigerian Navy, Commodore David Nabaida, told THISDAY on phone that it was not the fault of the navy that the place is porous.
He argued that it was the responsibility of the owners of the area to provide additional security measures.
“Whose duty it is to secure the facility? Is it the navy? Who made the place porous? Is it the navy? The responsibility of the navy is to protect the nation’s territorial waters and not performing security duties. But I tell you security cannot be 100 per cent. America which is the strongest nation had its trade centre blown off,” he said.

“We heard that the militants arrived the place in 15 outboard engine boats. By experience, I have come to know that one of those boats can carry about 15 persons at a time, if that is so, then it goes to mean that about 225 persons arrived Atlas Cove on that fateful day. This is a very serious security lapse which must not be swept under the carpet,” a commercial boat operator who shuttles between Liverpool and the fishing communities said in Yoruba.

@debosky Sorry, I have not had any of these "climatic" experiences; my mind was even sharper back home.

Lets not whip a dead donkey, maybe on some other topic, I'm not interested this time.

[quote author=oyinda. link=topic=302851.msg4268793#msg4268793 date=1248903444]thanks i like your answer a lot. I prefer for naija to have regional govts like in the past than for us to divide as well.
i almost forgot the benin speak french. lmao i got carried away by the yoruba ethnicity there. but still i think benin will make a better neighbor for us than either the igbos or hausas. don't u think?[/quote]Yoruba's don't have Igbo or Hausa neighbours.
Your neighbours are Egbira and Edo so there shouldn't be issues if theres a split.

It is difficult to imagine being neighbours with a state that is governed by religious laws (regardless of the religion), so assuming the Egbira's join the Yoruba's, their nation would still have a hellish border; across which there will always be Boko Haram style riots and the security pains of fighting the import of such cults.

The problems the Yoruba have with most of the South (including Igbo's) is cultural and can be bridged with the right leadership.

[quote author=tpia. link=topic=302851.msg4269012#msg4269012 date=1248908357]@ bolded
dont be.
@ topic

the issue here is so many different tribes are trying to gain the upper hand and redraw what they see as faulty colonial boundaries.

However, most of the so-called "restructuring" isnt for the common good but rather just for some interest groups to "emerge" as overlords. ie gain territory.[/quote]
What is this "common good" in present day Nigeria and where does it exist? Where has territory been mentioned in any of the current struggles (violent and peaceful)?

debosky:
Tensor I feel you didn't finish reading my comments - India has had focused governance bent on improving the country's inventive spirit/innovation and are not simply rent seeking like the Nigerian government. In addition, threats to it's existence by China and Pakistan, as well as invasions over the centuries have engendered a strong sense of independence and a need to defend itself.

Brazil is a mish mash of European settlers, former slaves and indigenous people. In addition, it has also had more focused leadership than we have had.

Those are by no means the only reasons behind our failings, but are significant. Leadership and vision play very important roles in a country's development.

Please, please, please! Invention has absolutely nothing to do with climate and it isn't worth your time beating a dead donkey.
Like some of us have said here, we are talking from experience.
While in Nigeria, I was inventing things but without any outlet and to a lot of derision from friends and neighbours. People were always going on about how "White people havent done it and yet you think you can?". In the meantime, you are left absolutely without support by govt; each time you enquire, there's the distinct feeling that someone is sniggering as soon as your back is turned. There is nothing worse than feeling locked in and unvalued. I have left Nigeria, but now I have levels of support I would never have in a thousand years in Nigeria.

Leave out esoteric arguments about climate. The system we practice kills intellectual expression; Wole Soyinka had to go abroad or he would never have won a Nobel prize. It is our system killing brainy output, not the weather.

Nigeria is the most ethnically diverse country on Earth. Even China with 1.5 billion people, is almost all Han Chinese.
It is sad, but African borders aren't natural; they were built for divide and rule. Several studies have concluded that ethnic diversity leads to lower development and income e.g. http://www.econ.upf.edu/~montalvo/wp/jde_marta_jose.pdf

Forget about Benin Republic. Western Nigeria has a lot to offer, what would Benin bring to the table. Nigerians are wide eyed, Benin people love their voodoo, they speak French. . . It would just be another bad arrangement.

It woul be better for the Yoruba to make up with the South East and South South.
Whether Arewa pulls out or not, the answer to the 9ja issue is to sit down and draw up both citizen and regional contracts, if we fail to do this, we are better of splitting. Regions are already ready (or are preparing) for full scale war. Anyone thinking there cannot be civil war, either does not understand the way the shoe bites on the ground or is grossly underestimating the levels of dissent. There is hunger amidst plenty, corruption and nepotism. For every step forward, there are two backwards as details get lost in the next ethnic melee. 12 states have already adopted sharia in a secular federation, the army motto is "victory for Allah" while "Taliban" can spring out of Northern society; 90% of govt revenue is derived from oil; our best professionals are in foreign climes because our country lacks basic instituitions and employment outlets.

The answer is a national conference, not running of to Benin Republic. We are going around in circles as a nation because we simply won't sit down to negotiate our continued shared existence, equitable structure of the state, responsibility of the state to the citizen, responsibiliy of the citizen to the state and citizens rights.

The whole of the North is going up in flames, but Yar Adua sees fit to travel out of the country. Is it that there is really someone else in charge, so it doesn't matter if our Great Leader is present when flames are engulfing Nigeria? I'm really beginning to wonder!

Listen to what he said;

"I have just finished meeting with our Defence Chiefs who have been in constant contact with the governors of Borno, Bauchi, Kano and other states," he said. "There has been very serious action. In fact, we have the situation under control now and I believe by the end of today everything will have taken shape."
http://www.234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/News/National/5439499-146/Yar'Adua_travels_as_northern_crisis_spreads.csp

Is this right?

OPC should fight for their own country and it must include Atlas Cove.

babapupa:
We all know say naija gov' just dey play around with dem rag tags cos na the same idiots dey finance and arm dem, one single jet fit wipe out their camps and blow their canoes into pieces,

It's one tin to dey run around with rifle inside canoe terrorizing people and blowing up maiguad at fuel depot, it's another tin to get blown up from the sky with one single missile,

What the hell is "maiguad"! Damn illiterate!
Other peoples oil means so much to you, is MEND affecting your business?

There is a big difference between Boko Haram and people of the Niger Delta.

Are you saying all Niger Delta people are criminals? We all support MEND.

A quick glance says math in the report as wrong as the first sentence.

"I first wish to first the U.S. Fulbright Scholar Commission, whose grant enabled me to live in
Lagos for six months, pursue this research and write this report."

Damn!

. . .Because, both the "fake" and "real" documents originated from the same desk?

Twy:
Beaf, I think R& D is still important for improving on existing technology which constitutes the bulk of modern day invention ca post 1950 when electricity, the telephones and how to process oil and other solid minerals had been discovered. Also, research and development may stimulate young minds which I think consitute the bulk of ancient and modern inventions. Example are the google guys who worked with Stanford and also the Yahoo gues also from Stanford.

On a general note, the issue of invention can also be seen from a youthful standpoint where minds are still open to new experiments, ideas or thoughts, and not rigid thoughts. Many great ideas and inventions are generated by people in their twenties and early thirties. The mindset of the youths in the country and how the older scientists can motivate their minds is also important. I think the situation whereby we have money hungry parents andgraduates (i.e everyone chasing after oil and gas or banking jobs) may be a problem in the long term. Most NIgerian innnovations and discoveries from the sector have been made and done by foreign technology a sore point in NNPC history and also in the banking sector it is all about marketing and generating funds.

You are right about R&. It is useful for formalising discoveries and channelling them to different consumers e.g. video's and magazines to interest kids, popular science books, textbooks, science papers etc. R& is also useful for sparking ideas in the minds of lateral thinkers.
Inventions tend to be made by younger people for a number of reasons (the ones that immediately come to mind are; they don't yet have many responsibilities and they aren't yet set in their ways). Regardless of what the reasons are, we should be able to spot and nuture genius from early childhood.

Another mistake we make is to think that those who have PhD’s or Doctorates are the supreme authorities in their chosen areas. Usually, these people are the very peak of intellect as far as the status quo goes. Where they innovate, it is usually within established "tradition" in their fields.

Revolutionary new ideas are introduced by outsiders with fresh eyes. Bill Gates was a drop-out law student; today, there are enough innovations to both his name and his company's name (Microsoft).

The point I'm making here, is that we put so much premium on title back home. So much that we snuff out the voices of those who might lack education but, nevertheless are geniuses. As an example, the greatest inventor of all time, Thomas Alva Edison pulled out of formal education after just 3 months when his teacher referred to him as "addled" (mentally confused). Yet Thomas Edison is responsible for practically everything we now take for granted - from microphones to recorded music to matches to electric lighting. . . The list is almost unending. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Edison

We need to be able to fish out geniuses no matter where they are and support them. We really cannot wait for moribund governments to begin this process.

Debosky's arguments are pointless, annoying and illogical.
What has Aberdeen got to do with Nigeria? This sort of pseudo-intellectual display causes my brain to ache.

Epiphany:
I do not agree where you say a brilliant mind does not need R&. I may agree that Development is for polishing existing inventions but Research is a primary ingridient in any invention or innovation. Research, being a search for knowledge or a systematic means of establishing something, is the foundation for any innovation anywhere in the world. It does not have to be anything formal but can be in a very informal setting.

When I say R&, I'm talking about instituitions like NIFOR, FIIRO etc or a commercial firms R& unit (e.g. Microsoft). Research in theis sense, is about improving either existing technology, theory or an existing invention. Inventions on the other hand are created by geniuses 100% of the time.
R& can provide an enabling enviroment for the inventor, but is not nessecary for the inventor. Thomas Alva Edison, the greatest inventor of all time didn't need R&, yet registered over 1000 patents.

This is a list of inventors http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventors. You will find that they tend to be independent; in that sense, I agree with you that the inventor does need some form of research, even if informal.

There is nothing to encourage inventing in Africa. Our societies kill the spirit of inventors and make it impossible for their dreams to materialise so they head of to the West or turn to crime.
From personal experience, friends, neighbours, acquaintances, other fellow country men and women are the first to beat you down when you invent something; "when oyimbo never make am, na you go fit make am"?
The Nigerian patent system is almost non-existent, no one wants to subject their invention to scrutiny by corrupt individuals, especially as patents are awarded to the first to come forward. Nigeria has blindly copied the patent system without applying our local circumstances to it. So Nigerian inventors with the werewithal run off to the US or Europe to obtain patent protection. A single US patent costs in the region of half a million Naira, what poor person can come up with this? If your patent is infringed, it can cost up to (and above) a hundreds million dollars to defend it in court; how many Nigerians can cough that up.

Contrary to what some are stating here, the brilliant mind does not need R& and to invent (that is for accidental inventions). R& is more useful for polishing existing inventions; the giant leap comes from the individual mind.
If this individual mind is nourished and taken care of, wonders will follow. Those wonders can then be funnelled out to the R& institutions like FIIRO etc.

Some people here, out of ignorance are thinking that Nigerian (or African) politics can be divorced from our lack of inventions. Within the current frameworks, the simple answer is that it can't and we will continue to be poor countries with 3rd rate science and technology.
Me and a couple of others are coming up with ways that should empower African inventors at the grassroots, as well as bring development and scientific thought to the grassroots. Unforetunately, we do not have a website yet, but that is being worked on.
Working at grassroot level is the only way to escape the backward effects of regional politics.

Quote from BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8172270.stm

"There are prominent Islamic preachers who have seen and understood that the present Western-style education is mixed with issues that run contrary to our beliefs in Islam," he said.
"Like rain. We believe it is a creation of god rather than an evaporation caused by the sun that condenses and becomes rain.
Like saying the world is a sphere. If it runs contrary to the teachings of Allah, we reject it. We also reject the theory of Darwinism."
Mr Yusuf himself is something of an enigma.
He is believed to be in his mid-thirties, and analysts say he is extremely wealthy and highly educated.
"He is graduate educated and very proficient in English," says Nigerian academic Hussain Zakaria.
"He lives lavishly - people say he drives a Mercedes Benz. And he is very well-educated in a Western context."

Damn!

Tboy007:
I'd like 2 clear some misconceptns:ISLAM, as preached by the best of mankind advocates seeking of education in all its ramification. There is definately no distinction betw Western educatn & mundane education. In fact, a tradition of the faith advocates seeking knowledge as far as China(then in Arabia, China was the known farthest land). This is why the forebears of the faith were at the fore-front of knowledge & Civilzation in their epoch of time.    Also, the Northern muslims shouldn't be construed as "perfect rep" of the Muslim community; as in all parts of the country, we've the uneducated,the area boys (kalari),the trouble makers etc. I undertook my youth service in the North and I can tell you I was grossly dissapointed with how they went about their faith (especially the youths). However, there are some indidviduals/groups amongst them whom you can regard as properly representing the muslim idealogies.
   Having said these, I'm actually dissapointed at most of the comments I came across this thread, most of which are openly spiteful of Islam and went in no small measure to denigrate the Islamic faith (the likes of Davidlan:his comments in the religion section leaves you without doubt that he is suffering from Islamophobia,& you only wonder what extreme hatred can lead to). Apparently as intellectuals, if one doesn't understand a concept/doctrine or one is intimidated by its success, the best thing to do is to attempt an independent assessment of the ills it is being accused of, rather than indulging in religious bigotry cum hatred. I'll be surprised if anyone with origins from the South, especially the S/W doesn't have both muslims & xtians as relatives. We should understand that we are not the same (as some are wont to believe) and then go further to understand our differences inorder to live 2gether in harmony rather than embarking on a crusade of defamatory actions/words that could have been as a result of LIMITED personal experiences. In my extended family, my immediate family happens to be on of the very few which practises the Islamic faith. Despite that, we are able to get along with our xtian cousins,uncles aunts, etc.Infact, my parents have sponsored quite a few of them in their educational pursuits till the tertiary level (I can boldly aver that my parents sponsored at least 15 of such xtian cousins:about 3 are chartered accountants).
   In attempting an epitome, I'll realy plead to us as youths to avoid all these divisive tendencies, focus on issues that can bring us 2gether and in turn lead to further developments of our great nation, and ultimately rise up as ADVOCATES of positive changes where everyone irrespective of his religious proclivities is able to live in peace & harmony with his neighbours. Don't mind the pessimists, Nigeria is bound to come out of all this crises a better and stronger nation.
  To the nation's continued existence & the sustenance of my faith, I resolutely stand for.

Damn that! Quite evidently you are haram, I have no Muslim relatives, not even inlaws. Stop exposing your ignorance of the South.
Islam is a religion like any other, but there is a serious problem in the North. They think Southern lives are cheap; for the slightest thing, they go out and slaughter. These bastard boko haram where dragging people out of their cars and shooting them!
Where do Boko Haram find their converts? North.
Where are Boko Haram allowed to multiply? North.
Where do Boko Haram have "educated" defenders (e.g. on this forum)? North.
Where is a group has a direct connection with alqaeda allowed to exist? North

There has never been anything as remotely dangerous as these incarnations of belzeebub, they even have a newspaper publisher (Daily Trust) as member http://worlddefensereview.com/pham020107.shtml. Doesn't that put a terrifying and sinister twist on what this group really is?

Southerners educate yourselves on what is going on up North!

Boko Haram need to be totally wiped out and the South needs to split from any society that can breed this sort of demons.

This group has a direct connection with alqaeda!

http://worlddefensereview.com/pham020107.shtml

nex:
Boko Haram more accurately translates to: Secular Education's an Abomination.

They want the type of education they had before the British came in. Saudis don't attend secular schools, but they're more educated than Nigerians.

Give the people what they want.

. . .And Saudi women can't vote? . . .Warped mindset.
Education is different from indoctrination.

Becomrich:
grafikdon=mikeansy=Beaf =Bialegend=ikeyman00= you live in a web of lies and you assume the whole should be like you.

when you know the truth, the truth would set you free.

Map drawing fool. Stop being stupid. Stop seeking notice.

elnaf:
@BeafYou ar too sentimental to be frank majority of MUSLIMS condemn Ds act Its unIslamic so stop generalizing & attacking Islams & Muslims sentimentally an sure u wont b happy if ur Religion is CONDEMNED
Going straight 2 d point "BOKO HARAMUN" means wester Education is prohibited western educatino in d sence dat its d genesis of all problems happining in NIGERIA members of Ds group claim there is no way you can b some 1 (PRESIDENT ,MINISTERS,SOLDIER ,POLITICIAN,GOVERNORS, POLICE, etc) in NIGERIA witout western Education an Ds ppl ar responsible for d LAWLESSNESS,CORRUPTION,INSECURITY,UNEMPLOYMENT, UNDERDEVELOPMENT
So Ds theire mission dats y they said they ve 2 start wit the law enforcement agency MIND YOU NO NIGERIAN IS EXCEPTIONAL BEING YOU A CHRISTIAN MUSLIM OR PAGAN ONCE YOU DONT DANCE TO THEIR TUNE you finished their 1st attack @ Bauchi was a MOSQUE their fellow muslim Brothers
SO Beaf Dnt b so sentimental try 2 a little bit fair well 2 b frank viewing ds situation in another perspective 2 me If their aim is 2 fight d government (WHO VE BEING ruling SINCE INDEPENDENCE)against all ds suffering we ar undergoing in Nigeria I support Absolutely I think I can sacrifice myself 4 a REVOLUTION So its dosent make any difference BOKO HARAMUN= REVOLUTON =FIGHTING CORRUPTION,INSECURITY,UNDERDEVELOPMENT, etc
So Never you associate Ds with SHARIA & Northern Muslims 2 B frank Ds just D beginning d only solution 2 ds problem is good governance,justice,equity,IN OUR COUNTRY NIGERIA

Correction. I have not condemned Islam anywhere (please quote where I have). What I have condemned is the adoption of Sharia in a secular state. Boko Haram also want to extend sharia across Nigeria.
It is almost as if southern Nigeria is viewed by Northerners as occupied by people of no consequence.
I am also at a loss as to why religious violence is common up North, there has to be a reason; Northern Nigeria is not the only place with a huge Muslim population. What is going on with the North?
Another point I made is my unhapiness with these wretches stupid arguments against Western education because, we in the south have to give up school places so that the North can benefit. Instead, these demons go about killing to maintain illiteracy.
Finally, are you seriously ready to lay down your life in a fight against "CORRUPTION,INSECURITY,UNDERDEVELOPMENT, etc" as defined by these bleeped up souls?

PS. I am neither Christian, Muslim nor Pagan.

Abuzola:
Am not in anyway in support of the Tatsine sect they are herectic, i just finish listening to their leader on Bbc hausa service with his evidences and reason for waging war on police. But the way you guy are taking it as if it is whole north that is behind this is what is aching me, heavens know that majority of you and your pastors are fornicators, early marriage is the only solutiö to this, no wonder we have many bastards in the south. Incase you do not know Kali kato or Tatsine group do not watch Tv, board car or any kind of technology innovation, they walk around with their staffs in a tradition of past prophets, they do not have wrist watch, they curse anybody who sell cigar and hemp, bla bla bla and many more, we have clashed with them here in my domain 6 years ago, it was a bloody encounter but with the support of soldiers we succeeded, there are speculation that they use charm during fight

Hmmm!
Then why do you keep posting to "No Subject"? You even seemed to defend their fight against "Western education" (as if theres a credible alternative).
Nobody is saying the whole North is behind them. We are saying, the North for some reason, seems to provide fertile ground for violent and extreme religion. What is this reason? No other part of the country regular indulges in religious killing spree's; especially not because of a fight against "Western education".

Why make fun of the health of somebody old enough to be your father or grandfather?

Rebarobyn:
I tire o, honestly all these chaos at times forces me to want to say everybody should go back to where they are from and lets just split the country and go our separate ways for the sake of peace but then innocent people who have stayed in these places all their lives will suffer. If they don't want western education, no problem, let them stay ignorant but why on earth would someone think of forcing their own beliefs on another, this is religious bullying and it is unacceptable,

I strenuously beg to disagree!
The Boko Haram baboons have no choice, but to go to school. Why? There is an unfortunate thing called "Federal Character" which in the Nigerian education system translates to "Quota System".
Other parts of Nigeria are paying very dearly to educate the good folk up North. Now I am from Delta State (which by the way, produces the most oil). We are a state of minorities who place a high premium on getting an education, yet everywhere we go, you hear "the Delta state quota is full" or "you didn't make the cut-off mark for Delta state" and other bullshit. . . And then, you here that the very Boko Haram baboons that cost you a place in school are raping, looting and killing for the right not to be educated. Damn!

Abuzola:
You guys keep talking shit, without the south nigeria will survive, when i went for pilgrimage in saudi arabia i was shown treasures that the then nigerian administration provided to saudi arabia and the date was pre petroleum discovery, Agriculture is a profitable loom that feed nations. If not for the dependant on oil We would have been the greatest, malaysia will tell you a whole lot

Is that why these wretches hate education?
Damaturu, one of the places bombed by these animals, is so deprived that you wonder how anyone from there is willing to plunder, rape and kill for the right to be illiterate. Is there something in the water up North?
This is a pic from Damaturu, capital of Yobe state.

blacksta:
Is this problem been addressed by Yar adua - any statments from the Government.

Statements are expected in a fortnight (maybe a year), in the meantime govt is busy with the number of lg's in lagos. Nothing must threaten their oil money.

Abuzola:
Ladies and gentlemen, BOKO means western education and not just education. The Holy Prophet Muhammad urge every muslim in a hadith to seek for knowledge even if it is as far to china let him go.

This muslim sect said it was pushed to the wall to carry out this audacious atrocity, by depressing them and banning their preaching and mosques, this Tsasine sect like is widely known in the north is calling for ban of western education, in many institution you will find out that 45% of its students have fornicated which even the bible is against Ephesian 5:5, expose to lewdness and indecency which also the Bible is against Ephesian 5:4. And many more.

In this modern World, what is the alternative to Western education? Does Sharia teach nuclear physics, high technology etc or does it just amputate the hand of thieves, flog women and stone victims to death?
Also, please don't quote Christianity; some of us are not Christians (I for one), so your argument holds no water. Also, the worst Christian groups (such as T.B. Joshua's) don't go about burning, looting, raping and killing  in a fight against education.