₦airaland Forum

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An electoral process doesn't always equate to democracy.
The african-adopted western system of governance lacks feedback channels, hence no check and balances.
Since we are different people, a by-the-letter adoption is less likely to work.
We should take what others have a starting template in formulating our own hybrid solution

The last line in the original article

Memo from a meeting of all religous group, held in Kwa- Zulu Natal last friday, to dicuss Christ Embassy atrocities in SA

is an html link (below) to the scanned memo
http://www.huhuonline.com/news342a.html
[img width=850 height=1100]http://www.huhuonline.com/images/Christ_Embassy_SA_document.jpg[/img]
[img width=850 height=1100]http://www.huhuonline.com/images/Christ_Embassy_SA_doc_2.jpg[/img]

Grizzly:
Of course they do. They just go far, far away and ensnare and unsuspecting guy.

an unsuspecting guy who is likely overwhelmed by their sexual prowess.

Mowire:
But Kobojunkie you dey try o!
See all the time and effort you put in to make stone hearted fellows like biina think straight [/b]on this issue. Don't you know how to just give up on such people and let them wallow in their own [b]ill thoughts.

Boy! you are trying! 3 pages of posts.

WTF  
In the future, please  try to engage your brain before you put your mouth in gear.

I would say you should leave your wife with her mom for now, but have her come and visit you periodically and also go and visit her in Ghana. Make sure you give her the needed financial support within your means.
You need to sort yourself out emotionally, spiritually and career wise, as it seems you rushed into the marriage unprepared. Try and build up some savings/investment for rainy days, as I know the entertainment industry is often seasonal for most.
I doubt your wife brings you bad luck, but her presence might be putting undue pressure on you, hereby making you struggle at work. You need to make her understand that she needs to be supportive of you in the best interest of the family.

I am a little concerned that we might not be getting the complete story.
- Is your mum still with your dad?
- where have you been living for the past 11yrs?
- why didn't you introduce the guy to your dad for the past 11yrs?
- Has your mum discussed the issue with him?
- what about your siblings?

All that aside, if your dad cannot come forward with his reasons (genuine or not) for not approving of the marriage, then ignore him. You should probably consult with your uncles (his older brothers or similar) and see if they can talk some sense into him, or get him to air his concerns on the issue.

Just to add another thought to the whole saga of the shoddy to-fro job by THISDAY:
If the jet was initially bought by 5 investors in the name of a chartered service company, what brought up the idea that the jet belong to the RCCG church or Pastor Adeboye?

I strongly suspect that we don't know the whole truth of the matter yet

Kobojunkie:
@Binna,[b] if you say I SAID FOR SURE that the money was private money, [/b]then you are allowed to believe as you chose. At this point, I really see where this is going and understand now that no matter what I write, you will always come back with the same and pick out lines as you want. As for the bible, I suggest you pick up the book yourself to read. As for the pastor, you, as well as anyone else is allowed at the end of the day, to believe of him what you will. I have already pointed out earlier that I am also guilty of trying hard to find his faults and nail him for it, and so far, I am still working on it but making sure that even that judgmental spirit is brought subject to God at the end of the day for me. I have learnt not to argue religion with other judgmental Nigerian Christians because 9 times out of 10, it yields nothing. So you go ahead and hold the church to whatever rule you want. Have a nice life with that ! I on the other hand choose to focus on other priorities for me.

@kobojunkie
Below is a quote from you:

"Well, regardless of whether names were withheld or not, be it church money that was spent or money put together by the 5 noted investors( possibly non-public officers), it is still private money".

Unless you have a different meaning (from the rest of the world) for the word 'regardless', I dont know how you still claim innocence on the matter.

Also from you:

"I would however like to refer you to passages in the bible where Jesus dined with some of the Pharisees and Sadducees, the very same people he spoke out against on numerous occasions."

All I have asked for (more than twice) is that you fulfill your own words and point me to the relevant passages in the bible.

You accuse me of nit picking your words, if so, please set the records straight, as you have failed to show how I have taken your words out of context.
It seems that your ego will not let you admit it when you make a mistake, or even clarify if you are misunderstood. Hence there is no point in continue this discussion with you.

Forget about the tests, and just castrate the idiot.

jamace:
Please read my introduction on this thread. I think it is clear enough.

What the hell is wrong with we Africans? Somebody will steal all your money, Bleep all our wives, kill as many as he can in the name of politics, and when he dies everybody will be singing his praises instead of cursing him. Why this mentality?

Your initial post is just a sweeping statement with no context or evidence to substantiate it.

see a vulcanizer!

@gabrywyl
Don't get me wrong, I am sure there are exceptions to my crude generalization, but they are few, and very  very far in between. The things that men can do just to get laid, most wouldn't do it the name of love.
This does not bar the development of genuine love later in the relationship, but just that I am skeptical of people (male + female) who fall in love quickly, as they are often shown to fall out of it even faster.

Kobojunkie:
Are you sure you are actually spending time reading my own posts? Where do you get me affirming that the money is private? You asked me a question and I answered you making sure to give you adequate examples to explain where I stand on this. Now you claim I state that the money is definitely private, are you kidding me?

please see below (from page #2 of this thread)

Kobojunkie: @OmoIbo,
Well, regardless of whether names were withheld or not, be it church money that was spent or money put together by the 5 noted investors( possibly non-public officers), it is still private money. I mean you do know that a non-profit business is not PUBLIC business.

Well, here is the deal. If you are a civil servant spending money that does not belong to you, of course I will speak out against such. Spending public money is akin to spending my money, and I have serious issues with that. I will ask you to name one or two of those and state the position held by the ones you choose to mention.

If you can call it hypocrisy and have proof of this, feel free!! But I do urge that you be sure you have proof to support such claim, and I wait to see the proof.

Kobojunkie: Sigh! Open your bible! It is not a secret that Jesus dined with the “enemy”!

I know of where Jesus dined with the tax collectors & co (that were considered sinners by the Pharisees), but I still cannot recollect where he dined with the Pharisees. All I have asked is for you (or anybody else) to provide a biblical reference for your statement.

Kobojunkie: Here is my major issue with where you may be trying to take this. Legally, if the shareholders, as in church members have yet to raise an issue about how the church is run, and if the regulatory authorities have not stated that the church is conducting illegal business, then by the law of the land, the church is legal.

Now, if you want to take the bible route on this, you at least have to fulfill one thing and that is having facts to offer instead of us sitting here, on the outside throwing around our delusions and fears are facts. We don’t have facts to show that the church is not doing things legally. We do not have facts to show that the church is knowingly receiving stolen money. We only know that this pastor somehow has relations with people like Obasanjo but we have no proof to show that he is getting a share of the money or what the relationship is really built on.

This is one problem I have with many Nigerians who claim to be Christians. We like to, like so many others out there, sit outside the church and throw stones at those inside as not doing things right according to US, while we forget that the bible does outline a way to correct problems that we feel exist. If you have a problem with the man, then write to him, go up to him and declare your concern. At least you have authority to do so as a Christian by God and if he does not listen, you do as the Bible says to do. Yes, the bible does say how to deal with these sort of things. 

Yes, I happen to be religious and happen to believe that if we must do things, we should at least do it the right way, rather than sit on the outside throwing stones, feeling we are somehow justified in our actions. I happen to attend said church, and plan to put together a petition this year to present to the church and am willing to fight to see that something is done about the problem I notice.

This church is not obasanjo or abacha that stole from you in broad day light. Why come on chat to throw shit with no evidence at it and continue to claim you are justified even as you confirm you have no evidence? I know I am now coming up as an apologist; just that I thought it was common sense not to throw stones if one does not have a solid reason to do so.

I have not for once supported or criticized  the church over the purchase of the jet, but rather requested that the church provide the needed information to put the matter to rest. I also have issues with people who blindly defend or criticize the church over the issue, and thus my issue with your quoted statement above.

Failure of the church to officially clear the air on the matter, while the issue continues to cause discord (and possibly conflict) would be very unbecoming of an institution of the christian faith.

that human stupidity knows no bounds

The 'rising to the occasion' simply refers to the visible effect of blood rushing to a man's loins ( I could be more explicit, but it might result in the thread being moved to the sexuality section)

A man supposed act of quickly falling in love, is most often than not, a consequence of a sexual attraction, and thus he will easily fall out of love when the deed is done.

Kobojunkie:
Well, here is the deal, when you talk of associations then yes, you have a choice but does the church really have a choice as you make it seem. I have heard people talk about how the man associates with people like OBJ, I for one do not know the intimate details on the relationships and so cannot speak out on those. 

I would however like to refer you to passages in the bible where Jesus dined with some of the Pharisees and Sadducees, the very same people he spoke out against on numerous occasions.
So you do not see how there is a serious line between PRIVATE and PUBLIC money? Please read my post because I am tired of having to reiterate this same fact. When money is taken from Public sector it is PUBLIC money. When money is taken from PRIVATE pockets it is private money. NOT ALL money found in the hands of government workers is to be considered PUBLIC MONEY; however, if PUBLIC MONEY is found in the hands of a government worker, that worker ought to be prosecuted. It is actually possible for PUBLIC servants to have PRIVATE businesses. Do you see the difference between what I have here, posted earlier, and your interpretation above?
Transparency to WHOM? YOU, the Public Or to the CHURCH members?  A church is NOT a PUBLIC entity and so I would not understand why it ought to open its books to the PUBLIC when, by law, it is not required to.

There is no evidence yet available as to the source of the money contributed by the 5 people, and therefore your statement that it was from private funds is baseless.

My point about association was not to bar the church from interacting with anyone. What I do have issues with is if the church knowingly accepts funds from individuals of questionable character. (BTW could you please cite where Jesus dined with the Pharisees, as i cant seem to remember such?)

If you feel that the church is like a corporate entity, then there is really no point in continuing this exchange, as it presents a fundamental  difference in our expectations of the church, and thus we cannot reach a consensus on the issue.

Kobojunkie:
Before I answer you, I do have a serious question for you and (and any other interested party). You have NAMED and KNOWN people like IBB, and so many others walking around, flaunting their ill-gotten wealth in your face daily, you have people who hold offices, have you gone after them yet? Roflmao!!!

Of course if it be discovered that any of the 5 were former civil servants and were involved in one way or another in money laundering schemes of any kind, I would be one of the first to ask for their heads should the individuals be found guilty. But is this really about the men and how they got their wealth, or is this about the pastor of a church that was accused of misspending the church people’s money?

With respect to the likes of IBB and others who have been accused (and most likely guilty) of ill gotten wealth, while I condemn such acts, I am in no position to prosecute them under the law (as that is the responsibility of the state - go figure). However, I do have a choice in who I associate with, and I do not associate with such people or any other person that encourages the proliferation of ill gotten wealth. So also I don't approve of a church associating with such until there is clear evidence of repentance.

My question to you was based on your posted that states that the funds that were used were private funds without any proof of who the individuals were. Your response above shows that if they turned out to be civil servants, you would no longer consider it their private business.

I am indifferent about the purchase of the jet (as I have insufficient evidence on the matter). Each person has his own reason for being interested, but transparency on the part of the church and other parties involved would go a long way in putting the issue to rest, and that for me is what it is really about.

topup:
[color=#008855]Letter to the one I love,
Foldable mirror,
Fingerpainting at age 5,
Tongue scraper,
Clown costume,
Duct tape,
Mustache bleaching kit,
False eyebrows,
[size=16pt]HDTV,[/size]
Weedwacker,
Tarrot cards,
[size=16pt]A corded phone - still connected[/size]
A picture of my lost monkey,
A book of 101 puzzles,
A signed letter to join the convent,
All 40 episodes of Prison break,
[size=16pt]and 10 dumbbells 10kg+.
[/size]

But some days it's;
Bikini wax kit,
Hair bleaching kit,
Exfoliator,
Razor,
Epilator,
Shaving cream,
Shaving mousse,
Shaving gel,
Battery powered bikini trimmer,
Tweezer,
Laser hair treatment kit,
Depilatory cream,
Wax strips,
NADS,
Chopsticks!!
[/color]

U sure say u go fit comot for house?

gabrywyl:
Rising to the ocassion of wetin?

don't tell me u seriously don't know?

Fresh undiluted palm wine can easily intoxicate. It has a fine texture with a sweet, almost sugary, taste which hides the high concentration of alcohol in it.

depends on how well he pays

@kobojunkie (and any other interested party)
If the five investors who (supposedly) bought the Jets are found to be (past or present) civil servants who are suspected (and likely guilty) of embezzling public funds, should we still be unconcerned?

Thanks, as that puts your earlier post in a clearer perspective. One clarification needed though is that do you feel the entire mosaic law was then abolished or just the law on tithing?

Irrespective, I disagree with your interpretation of Hebrews  7:5-20 as such an interpretation would be in conflict with Matt 5:17-48, where Jesus stated that he did not come to abolish the law (but to fulfill them), and goes on to expound on the notion behind several of the mosaic laws.

The passage quoted from Hebrews (the discussion starts from chapter 6), addresses the issue of salvation through Christ (Melchizedek Priesthood) vs through sacrifice (Levitical priest hood). The passage explains the superiority of the Melchizedek to the Levitical priesthood, partly by showing that even the Levites, through Abraham, paid tithes to the former. The perfection sought is salvation and thus under the Levitical priesthood it was attained by sacrifices. This was the 'law' found weak (as it failed to draw people unto God) and thus the need for Jesus to die for our sins hereby setting a new law. He later likened Christ to Melchizedek to show the superiority of salvation through Christ.

I do agree with you on giving out of one's heart and not under compulsion. However that would be in reference to how much one should give, and not if you should give or not.

@KunleOshob
The issues of does God desire that we pay tithes, of how pastors preach about tithes, and, what to do with the paid tithes are for separate considerations IMO. The issue of how the topic is addressed in most churches cannot be tackled until we reach a conclusion on the position of the bible on the issue. It is after this that we can then make a qualitative analysis of church practices on the issue. I would like you to clarify how you feel on the first point instead of trying to process them all at once. Does God desire that we pay tithes? (this refers to partying away with your material wealth, and has nothing to do with who you give it to, or to what purpose it is applied)

KunleOshob:
If the tither is paying his tithes based on the mosaic law which was quoted in malachi 3, the tither is cutting his or her self away from the grace of Christ(Galatians 5:4). But the more evil issue is that the word of God is being twisted(jeremiah 8:8-10) and manipulated by those who should know better(pastors) to justify it or for the sake of greedy gain and this is extremely BAD  

I am not sure that I understand what you mean by the mosaic law in malachi 3 (I believe verses 6-10). If I have misinterpreted your statement, please let me know. I will assume that you refer to the laws of Moses as specifically in Leviticus (and not the entire Pentateuch)

Malachi 3:6-8
"I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed. Ever since the time of your forefathers you have turned away from my decrees and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you," says the LORD Almighty.
"But you ask, 'How are we to return?'
"Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
"But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
"In tithes and offerings. You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.

Contrary to the opinions of most Christians, tithing (as well as offerings) did not originate in the mosaic laws. The mosaic laws only formalized tithes and offerings, and also gave a physical purpose to them e.g.  by allocating them as an inheritance to the Levites. Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek, and Jacob also swore same at Bethel (Gen 28:20). These were obviously not done under mosaic laws,  but rather under the guidance of God. In Malachi, when God accused us of robbing him, it was not with regards to the mosaic laws per se, but rather with respect to the ever constant requirement that we give our tithes and offerings unto him. Of note also is Jesus's comment to the Pharisees in Matt 23:23, that they should practice  justice, mercy and faithfulness, and still pay their tithes. It is my opinion that the payment of tithes to God is a requirement of all who believe in him.

With regards to Galatians 5:4, caution needs to be exercised, because Paul was making a case against holding people to righteousness based on the mosaic law (like the pharisees did) which was common among the jews vs gentiles particularly as regards circumcision. This is obvious given that being held to righteousness based on the mosaic laws neglects the death and resurrection of Christ. A possible scenario would be requiring that the gentiles adopts the same day as the jews do for the Sabbath, whereas the notion of the Sabbath is not about which day of the week it is but rather reserving a day to reflect and fellowship with God.

On the issue of people manipulating the word of God, that is an issue I would like us to defer till later, so as not to give a better structure to our exchange.

It is shameful that THISDAY can't present verifiable facts on the matter, so as to put everything to rest. This article is no different from the earlier one in that there is too much unsubstantiated information. Examples
- Name of the bank involved
- Name of charter service company
- Why the aircraft is the collateral as it is a depreciating asset (though possible if you have enough connections in the bank= malpractice)

Like someone said earlier, a simple statement by the Church would put the whole issue to rest. I don't approve of their sitting on the fence while the issue continues to generate so much discord.

Ironically, supporters of the private jet who earlier argued that the Pastor's heavy flight schedule warranted a private jet, are now readily believing that there will be enough idle time for the jet to be used for a charter service, that would be profitable enough to pay the outstanding $7 million, plus annual fixed cost of almost $1 million, and any other accrued variable costs. At least one of the arguments does not hold water.