₦airaland Forum

SirJohn:
I wont bother wasting so much of my valuable time responding to your post; however, I have something to say about the statement I highlighted in bold letters. here's the deal: I'll advice you visit the healing school; I understand there will be a session which will commence in Lagos by February 2nd. Go there, stay for the whole session, observe what goes on. If it is anything short of what I described, I will publicly apologize to Chris Oyakhilome and his organization. How about that?
You said you achieved ''very distinct miracles'', would you be kind to tell us ábout the 'miracles', I'm dying to hear them. (No phoney stories and please provide proof of your tales)

You go wait tire.

morpheus24:
Everyone knows Adam spoke the Khoisan click language.

Is that not the language of the bush men? The Gods must be crazy remember the movie?

He uses a teleprompter(screen), those two things you see infront of the stage when ever he is making a big speech. There is no doubt that he writes most of his speeches but he reads them off the telepromter when delivering the speech.

Another one has gone. RIP is the word here.

OLAADEGBU:
Check the link below for possible answers:

http://www.gotquestions.org/sons-of-God.html

The guy the wrote what is supposed to be your answer is just using a myth to answer a myth what a load of hogwash.

Tasma:
This is actually a very simple question I want to ask…, hope to get some intelligent answers. Oft times when a person claims not to believe in God they resort to this argument. They say look around you, who do think made the stars, the clouds, human beings etc. Since these things exist then “our” God must be real. This claim is common with Christians, Muslims or “religious” persons. I don’t really understand this claim. How do you take the leap from I don’t know where this thing came from……. to hence my God must exist.

The problem is that the creation story in the bible and the koran is very ridiculous and incoherent, there are so many things wrong with it but let us just take a look at one or two from the bible (my koran is not here but i will show of of the ridiculous assertions about its own creation story when I get home.)

On the second day

Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth put forth grass, herbs yielding seed, [and] fruit-trees bearing fruit after their kind, wherein is the seed thereof, upon the earth: and it was so.

Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, herbs yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, wherein is the seed thereof, after their kind: and God saw that it was good.

And the story continues till the end of creation and how God rested.

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it; because that in it he rested from all his work which God had created and made.

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven. (What does this mean? generations of heaven and earth when they were created in the day God made them? what is this? )

OK now here is the problem.

Gen 2:5 And no plant of the field was yet in the earth, and no herb of the field had yet sprung up; for Jehovah God had not caused it to rain upon the earth: and there was not a man to till the ground.

In Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth put forth grass, herbs yielding seed, [and] fruit-trees bearing fruit after their kind, wherein is the seed thereof, upon the earth: and it was so.

Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth plants, herbs yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, wherein is the seed thereof, after their kind: and God saw that it was good.

When did plants grow on the earth? on the second day or after the entire creation? Genesis 1:11 said on the second day of creation, while genesis 2:5 said after the entire creation because the bibleGod had not yet caused it to rain and because there was no man to till the ground. Is that really how the world was created? 

Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

But before this verse it was "Let us create man in our image", and not "his own image". Which is it? His image, or "our" image, in reference to the quote before the above?

Some Christians could argue that Jesus existed already before he had been born hence It could be that the bibleGod was talking to him at that time. But even without me believing all that, it still sounds farfetched.

seun*:
lets be serious na at least for once here. . . .bindex

u make me laff

Do you know Ahudama? He is a south american God a tribe in Peru worship, The first man he created was panku and he spoke Gera his language just like the first man Sango created spoke yoruba. The first men the Chinese Gods created all spoke Chinese if you are to go by the Chinese history, same with the Hindu Gods the first people they created all spoke the Indain language, The first man Zeus created spoke greek(you can read the greek history). Can't you see that in the Koran Adam spoke Arabic which is the language of Allah, in the bible Adam spoke Hebrew which is the language of the biblical patriachs and the hebrew God of the old testement( read the OT). If Christainity had originated from China then the Chinese would have been God's "Chosen people" and Adam and Eve would have spoken Chinese. Infact the bible would have been written in Chinese. And as for the tower of babel that is one of the greatest lie ever told.

Nigerians and jumping guns. Why do we love claiming that which isnt ours?

Dark age.

Very welcome development.

Janssen:
The Incomprehensibility of God

The God who has revealed Himself in Scripture tells us that He is going to be “incomprehensible” to us. But does this mean that God is going to be irrational or illogical? No. It means that God is beyond man’s capacity to understand or explain exhaustively. In this sense, God is beyond human reason and logic because He is infinite and we are finite.

The doctrine of incomprehensibility is the opposite of rationalistic “reductionism,” which reduces God to human categories in order to make Him “manageable,” “coherent,” and “explainable.” Incomprehensibility allows God to be GOD. It reveals that God is infinitely better and greater than man. Thus we can build all the little theoretical molds we want, and we can try to force God into these molds, but in the end God will not “fit.” He will always be beyond our grasp. He is too high for us to scale and too deep for us to fathom. We cannot get God in a box. The finite span of the human mind will never encompass the infinite God of Scripture.

But does this mean that God is “unknowable”? If by “unknowable” we mean the Greek philosophic dichotomy that “man must know either all or nothing,” this is not what Christian theology means by its doctrine of incomprehensibility. We can have a true but finite knowledge of God on a personal and intellectual level because God has revealed Himself. Thus while we cannot fully understand the God who has revealed Himself, yet we can and do know Him. (See Jeremiah 9:23, 24; Daniel 11:32; John 17:3; Galatians 4:8-9; 1 John 4:4-8; 5:18-21).

The doctrine of incomprehensibility means that we can only go so far and no further in our understanding of God because we are limited in three ways.

First, we are limited by the finite capacity of our minds. This is a “problem” that cannot be avoided any more than it can be overcome. So, we might as well as admit that we are not gods. Since we are finite creations of an infinite God, we will never understand it all.

Second, we are also limited by the sinfulness of our minds. Thus we have a moral problem as well as a capacity problem. By nature, we do not want the light of Truth. We prefer the darkness of error (Genesis 6:5; John 3:19-21). Sin and Satan have darkened and blinded our minds lest we see the Truth (Romans 1:28; 2 Corinthians 4:4). Only God’s wondrous grace can overcome our moral aversion to truth and righteousness.

Third, we are limited by revelation. Paul warned the Corinthians “not to go beyond what is written” because it would lead to arrogance (1 Corinthians 4:6). The constraints of revelation are given in order to restrain man’s depraved lust to make gods for himself. We are not free to speculate and come up with our own ideas of God. We are to study the Bible in order to learn God’s ideas about Himself, to think God’s thoughts after Him.

What are the consequences if we reject the doctrine of the incomprehensibility of God? While we might “cheer” at first because this gives a cheap and easy way to resolve the antinomies and paradoxes of Scriptures, it ultimately leads to a rationalistic denial of all Christian doctrine.

Stephen Davis is a good example of this process. He demands a “precise explanation” that is “coherent” to him, or he will not believe. In other words, if he cannot fully understand some aspect of the Christian God, he will throw it out because “man (in this case Davis) is the measure of all things.” This is the basic assumption of secular and religious humanism.

Davis first applies his humanistic assumption to the issues of divine sovereignty and human accountability. He understands that the historic Christian solution beginning from the Apostolic Fathers is that both divine sovereignty and human accountability are true. Christians for two thousand years have also believed that no one is able to reconcile these two ideas. It is a Biblical mystery that demands faith, not explanation. Since those who hold to both doctrines at the same time openly admit that they cannot give a “precise explanation” of how divine sovereignty and human accountability are both true, Davis has no choice but to reject the Christian position that both are true. He must now choose one and reject the other.

But does he now choose God and exalt His glory? No, as a humanist, Davis will always exalt man at the expense of God. When the choice comes down to either God’s being “free” to do as He pleases with what He made, or man’s being “free” to do as he pleases, a humanist will always make man “free” and God “bound.” Thus Davis argues;

Take the person who tries to reconcile divine predestination of all events with human freedom by saying, “Well, I’m talking about a kind of predestination which allows for human freedom.” Until it is explained precisely what this species of predestination is, we will be suspicious that the proposed reconciliation is spurious.

While this is a quick and easy way of philosophically dismissing the position of the early Church and the Reformation, we should warn the reader that having established the precedent that “whatever cannot be precisely explained is spurious,” Davis goes on to apply it to such doctrines as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Similarly, we would be suspicious of a person who tries to explain how an incorporate being can be spatially located somewhere by the use of what this person calls “an aspatial concept of inside of.” Again, until it is explained precisely what this species of “inside of” is, we will reject the proposed reconciliation.

Since no one can “precisely explain” how an “incorporate being,” either the Holy Spirit or a demonic spirit, can exist “inside of” someone, Davis rejects the idea. He also calls into question the omnipresence of God, for who can “precisely explain” howGod is everywhere present? Davis concludes,

If we want to be rational we have no choice but to reject what we judge to be incoherent

We had better consider the way that someone does theology because it sets a precedent that will be relentlessly applied to more and more Christian teaching until nothing is left. While a denial of predestination is exegetically foolhardy, it is not damnable. But it is damnable to deny the essential attributes of God, such as His omnipresence, or the doctrine of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Christians need to understand that they must first look at where a line of reasoning will take them before they unknowingly start down the “primrose path” to apostasy.

Let us now examine some of the Scriptures which clearly teach the doctrine of the incomprehensibility of God. We will begin with the book of Job as it contains the fullest treatment of the doctrine in the Bible.

The Book of Job

This book is the passage of full mention in the Bible concerning the problem of evil. And it is also the passage of full mention on the subject of the incomprehensibility of God. Thus any discussion of the problem of evil must involve an affirmation of the incomprehensibility of God.

In Job the problem of evil is “solved” by the doctrine of the incomprehensibility of God. In other words, Job’s solution was to accept both that God is sovereign and that man is responsible. He did not try to explain this. He simply left such mysteries in the hands of God.

It is interesting to note that when we examined the books that claim to “solve” the problem of evil by reducing the power and knowledge of God, not one of them even mentioned the book of Job. Why is Job ignored? Perhaps they don’t like the answer God gave Job out of the whirlwind, because this answer is the incomprehensibility of God.

Now, we must point out that the problem of evil was not an academic issue for Job. The pain and suffering caused by the death of his children, the theft of his goods, the loss of his health, the ruination of his marriage, and the criticism of his friends, were all real evils to him.

But when Job said that he was willing to receive “evil as well as good from God,” he meant what he said (Job 2:10). He was even willing to worship the God who “took” away his children, wealth, and health, saying:

The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away.

Blessed be the name of the Lord (Job 1:21).

When his wife told him to curse God for all the evils He had sent their way, Job refused (Job 2:9). In the face of unbelievable pain and suffering, Job exclaimed,

Though He slay me,

I will hope in Him (Job 13:15).

This passage is very important, for in his mind, Job viewed God as his “Slayer.” He did not say that “chance” or “bad luck” or even “the Devil” was the cause of all the evils which came upon him. He always assumed that God was in control of this world. Although the agent who caused the evil may have been the Devil, the Chaldeans, etc., Job bowed before God as the One who sent the evils his way. Yet, he did not “blame” or “curse” God as if He were the agent or cause of these evils.

Job held to two seemingly contradictory doctrines. On the one hand, God was not the author of evil in the sense of being its agent, and He was thus not accountable for it. Therefore God should not be cursed. On the other hand, God is sovereign and He sent all these evils on Job. Thus he states over and over again that it is God who “took” away his children, wealth, health, and happiness (Job 12:9). No other exegetical conclusion is possible. As we shall see, Job could live with two seemingly contradictory doctrines because he had a very deep belief in the incomprehensibility of God.

But how could he endure all these things and believe in God’s sovereignty and not curse God? Why didn’t he give up his belief in God and become an atheist? Why didn’t he trade in his infinite God for a finite god like the gods of the heathen? They were “guilty but forgiven” because they were limited in power and could not know the future. Did Job ever limit his God in these ways? How did he handle it?

Job handled all the evils in life the same way true believers have always handled them. Faith! Mighty faith! Faith that looked to God alone! This was his secret.

Job ultimately accepted the fact that his “reason” was incapable of comprehending the Being and works of God. So, he simply trusted in God that He knew what He was doing. Job did not presume to instruct the Almighty or to be His counselor.

But Job and his friends had to learn the hard way to trust in God and not to lean on their own understanding. At the beginning they still tried to reason it out all by themselves. But after all their discussions, they never solved anything. The book of Job concludes with the solution that Divine revelation is the only way for man to find an answer. This is the enduring message of the Book of Job and God’s eternal answer to the problem of evil.

Several passages in Job deserve close study.

But as for me, I would seek God;

And I would place my cause before God;

Who does great and unsearchable things,

Wonders without number (Job 5:9).

How does Job resolve the fact that God is good and, at the same time, that “He inflicts pain” (Job 5:18)? The answer given in Job 5:9 is that when we try to search out the whys and wherefores of God’s actions, we will always find that His ways are “unsearchable,” i.e., incomprehensible. His “wonders are without number” and cannot be counted and measured by man.

Who does great things, unfathomable,

And wondrous works without number.

Were He to pass by me, I would not see Him;

Were He to move past me, I would not perceive Him.

Were He to snatch away, who could restrain Him?

Who could say to Him, “What art Thou doing?” (Job 9:10-12)

Starting with the doctrine of Creation (verse. 8. Job proceeds to the incomprehensible nature of God and His works. What God does is so “great” that no one can “fathom” its depths. This makes His works “wondrous” or “awe-inspiring.”

Job now proceeds to the fact that we cannot “see” God. Thus we cannot “perceive” His motives or goals. Neither can we “restrain” Him from doing whatever He wants. Thus we have no right to challenge God by demanding, “What art Thou doing?”

Can you discover the depths of God?

Can you discover the limits of the Almighty?

It is high as the heavens, what can you do?

Its measure is longer than the earth,

And broader than the sea.

If He passes by or shuts up,

Or calls an assembly, who can restrain Him?

For He knows false men,

And He sees iniquity without investigating (Job 11:7-11).

The impact of these rhetorical questions cannot be avoided. No one can “discover the depths of God” for the depths are bottomless. No one can “discover the limits of the Almighty” for He is limitless. The text states that even if we could search out all of creation in terms of its height, depth, length, and breadth, we still could not “discover,” i.e., comprehend, the infinite nature of the Almighty.

This is also applied to the sovereign will of the Almighty. If He wants to “pass by or shut up” something (verse. 10), no one can restrain Him. He will do as He pleases.

God’s omniscience is then defined in terms of an immediate and perfect knowledge of all things including the sins of man (verse. 11). God’s knowledge does not “grow” because He does not have to investigate a matter to learn about it. No, God knows all things “without investigation,” i.e., without waiting until the event and its investigation occurs. The incomprehensibility of God is the context for both God’s sovereignty and God’s omniscience.

Then the Lord answered Job out of

the whirlwind and said,

“Who is this that darkens counsel

By words without knowledge?

Now gird up your loins like a man,

And I will ask you, and you instruct Me!

Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth!

Tell Me, if you have understanding,

Who set its measurements, since you know?” (Job 38:1-5)

Job and his friends had sat around discussing the problem of evil in terms of what had come upon Job. On the basis of human reason, they engaged in endless philosophical speculation and, in the end, failed to resolve anything. Although a great deal of heat was generated during their discussions, little light came of it.

At last, God gives a revelation to the problem of evil. The first thing that He does is to dismiss all the conclusions of human “reason” as “words without knowledge” that only “darken counsel.” Paul echoes this thought when he states that the world with all its philosophical wisdom is sheer “foolishness” (1 Corinthians 1:18-21).

Then God challenges their ability and capacity to understand the questions and the answers to those questions. In fact, they had asked questions that were “too deep” for them. Not only did they not understand their questions, but even the answers were also beyond their capacity to understand. They were “in over their heads” and did not know it! This is why so many people drown in unbelief. And even when we toss out to them the lifeline of Scripture, they would rather drown in unbelief than accept God’s revelation by faith. For four chapters, God challenges them,

So, you think that you are so smart that nothing is “beyond” you? You don’t even hesitate to tell Me how to run the universe I made! Well, I have a few questions for you. We’ll see if you are as smart as you claim. Since you think that you can comprehend Me, let’s see how well you comprehend the world around you. After all, this should be easy for you since you claim to understand Me!

God then proceeds to put Job and his friends in the “hot seat” and give them “the third degree.” Under divine interrogation, they soon realized that their “reason” and “intuition” were not sufficient. The sovereignty of God was the solution to the problem of evil.

Then Job answered the Lord, and said,

“I know that Thou canst do all things,

And that no purpose of Thine can be thwarted.

Therefore I have declared that which

I did not understand.

Things too wonderful for me,

which I did not know.

Hear, now, and I will speak;

I will ask You, and You instruct me.

Therefore I retract,

And I repent in dust and ashes” (Job 42:1-4, 6).

Under the rebuke of God for trying by “reason” to solve the problem of evil, Job “repents” and “retracts” all the things he and his friends had said. He now bows before revelation and submits to the Divine glory. He admits that God can do whatever He wants and no one can frustrate or condemn His sovereign will. He admits that such questions are “too wonderful,” i.e., mysterious, for him. He will leave such things to God.

Other Passages

The rest of Scripture follows Job in resolving the problem of evil by submitting to the incomprehensibility of God. Let us examine a few of these passages.

Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;

It is too high, I cannot attain to it (Psalm 139:6).

In this Psalm, David first introduces the subject of God’s omniscience in verses 1-5, which leads him to the incomprehensibility of God in verse 6. Then he goes on to describe the omnipresence of God in verses 7-12. David did not become depressed over the fact that God’s omniscience and omnipresence are concepts that were “too high” for him to comprehend. The opposite was true. The incomprehensibility of God enhanced his worship. He could worship such a God because He is so wonderful.

Great is the Lord, and highly to be praised;

And His greatness is unsearchable (Psalm 145:3).

In the context, David has in mind not only the “greatness” of God’s being, but also of His works. The word “unsearchable” is often translated “unfathomable.” A nautical term, it meant that the plumb line of human reason will never discover a bottom to God in His nature or deeds. The true God has no “bottom” or limit for man to discover. Such a God is alone worthy of our worship.

Why do you say, O Jacob, and assert, O Israel,

“My way is hidden from the Lord

And the justice due me escapes the notice of my God”?

Do you not know? Have You not heard?

The everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the

ends of the earth,

Does not become weary or tired.

His understanding is inscrutable (Isaiah 40:27-28).

The apostate among Israel cherished two vain hopes. First, they hoped that God was limited in His knowledge and thus did not know about their sin. If He did not know about it, they would not get punished for it.

Second, they hoped that if God were not ignorant, at least He would be distracted by far more important things than meting out the justice due to them. If He were going to punish anyone, He would have to begin with people who are really wicked, not them. Or, perhaps, He was just uninterested in them and wouldn’t care.

The prophet Isaiah dashes to the ground all such finite views of God that would see Him as “growing” or “learning.” God is not ignorant, distracted, or uninterested, because the eternal God is the Creator of all things including man. His “understanding” or “knowledge” is not limited in any way by what He has made. It is thus “inscrutable,” i.e., unlimited.

Oh the depths of the riches both of the wisdom

and knowledge of God!

How unsearchable are His judgments

and unfathomable His ways!

For who has known the mind of the Lord,

Or who became His counselor?

Or who has first given to Him

that it might be paid back to him again?

For from Him and through Him and to Him

are all things.

To Him be the glory forever. Amen (Romans 11:33-36).

This is one of the most beautiful statements on the incomprehensibility of God in the New Testament. It is brought in by the Apostle Paul as the doxological climax to his discussion of election, predestination, God’s sovereignty, and human responsibility in Romans 8-11. The Apostle Paul calls us to worship a God who is beyond our capacity to comprehend in either His being or works. This God is “unsearchable” and “unfathomable.” No one will ever “know” all the “ins and outs” of the mind of the Lord. If someone could, he would “become His counselor,” for he who can understand God would be greater than God.

The immediate occasion of this doxology to the incomprehensible God is his discussion of the inclusion of the Gentiles into the covenant of grace and the exclusion of Israel. Paul states that God’s election is based on His grace and not on some condition of man such as race or parentage (Romans 11:6-7).

But what about all the “whys,” “hows,” and “wherefores” that naturally arise? Paul does not claim to know all the answers. He knows only what has been revealed. Thus he can now freely worship God because he leaves such mysteries in the hands of his Creator:

The love of Christ which surpasses knowledge (Ephesians 3:19).

Paul prays that the saints might “comprehend” and “know” the love of Christ (vv. 18-19). But while they can have a finite but true knowledge of such things, they cannot exhaustively comprehend the Lord Jesus Christ or His love. Christ is God as well as man. He is infinite in His being and love. We will never be able to understand the “whys,” “hows,” and “wherefores” of His love for sinners.

Let us point out that if we begin with the rationalistic assumption that everything must either be “precisely explained” or we must reject it, then we must reject the love of Christ because it “surpasses comprehension.” God’s election and love are so joined in Scripture that they either stand or fall together.

The peace of God which surpasses all comprehension (Philippians 4:7).

Who can “precisely explain” how the peace of God can “indwell” us and gives us comfort? Who can make “coherent” the ways of the Spirit of God? Is not the work of God in the soul like the wind which comes and goes without our permission or knowledge (John 3:8?

If we are limited to what can be “precisely explained” and “made coherent,” then we will have to reject the peace of God as well as the love of Christ! But if we accept the incomprehensibility of God, we can have both His peace and His love. By this faith we can live without fear, being confident in His sovereign love and power.

Conclusion

From just these few passages of Scripture it is abundantly clear that the Christian doctrine of the incomprehensibility of God is a revealed truth. It follows naturally after the doctrine of creation and forms the context of all the other attributes of God.

It is also clear that the authors of Scripture were not embarrassed by the incomprehensibility of God but proud of it. They did not apologize for it but boasted of it. They did not agonize over it but rejoiced in it. They were not driven away from God by it but were drawn nigh unto God because of it. They did not curse God but fell at His feet in wonder, awe, and praise.

The only thing you succeeded in doing here is using human, language, logic and explanation to tell people that they can not understand God, all these writing, logic and explanations are yours or that of the writer. Anyway since men created God they will then have to keep explaining and telling people about him. He never seems to be able to do anything himself, he even needs people to talk on his behalf.

The spoke the language of the bibleGod which is hebrew, Just the way the first man that Buddah created spoke Nepalise.

kola oloye:
what happened to the video clip Well, that is just by the way.
I've said it before maybe i should say it again: [b]NO HUMAN MIND CAN COMPREHEND GOD.[/b]He is too big to be conceptualised. Any video clip or whatever is just another persons thought/ignorance
Or was GOD the producer/ director of the VC. Thank God that the VC is no longer available.
Rubbish

No human mind can comprehend God yet God heavily depends on humans to explain things and do everything for him? he depends on the human mind, the human conception and understanding to relate with humans, he uses human languages,  writings and some times live in human made suculpture(wooden ark). He depends on humans to tell each other how they are suppose to relate to him and abide by his laws. And yet you come here and tell us that God can not be comprehended with the human mind, is it that God than can not be comprehended with the human mind or some of the stupid laws and actions that humans attribute to their various Gods that need to be explained away with such a lame excuse? God can not be comprehended by the human mind yet all the Gods rely heavily on humans to do everything for them. What a load of hogwash.

~Lady~:
i hope u've studied the culture and history of the isrealites, that is the only way you'll be able to understand the bible. i hope u understand the symbolisms they use when narrating a story, without that u wouldn't understand the Bible.
The Bible isn't just something that can be picked up and read as a novel, you can do so, but u won't get anything out of it. You'll be very lost.

The culture of the Isrealite like any medieval society is full of violence death and destruction of people that are not from their tribe, region or clan. The books of Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Judges, 1 and 2nd Samuel are the most violent books I have ever read next to the Koran. All I can say is WOW. The ancient Jews live only to fight for land, food, women and children, they are a very violent people with the support of their very tribal and racist God, They are so violent that they even fight themselves when they have nobody to fight with(Benjamites vs the other tribes) in the book of Judges, after killing themselves they went and started crying to their God for letting them kill each other , what a bunch of confused and crazy people. What more do I need to understand that the ancient Jews are one of the most violent and destructive people that lived?(read the first 16 book of the OT) Most christains (60percent) do not read the bible, about 60 percent of the books of Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Judges, 1 and 2nd Samuel are nothing but stories of war and violence that were all promoted by the very racist hebrew God and his people and most of the time unprovoked.

When interpreted correctly the Bible is not filled with contradictions.
Oh another thing, keep in mind that God is a God of justice not a God of roses, so there are things you will read that you wouldn't like, he may not fit your idea of God, but that's just it, he isn't supposed to fit your idea of God, you're supposed to understand him as he is. You can accept it or not. No one can do wrong against him and expect to get away with it.

2Sa 6:6 When they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled.

2Sa 6:7 The Lord's anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down and he died there beside the ark of God.

2Sa 6:8 Then David was angry because the Lord's wrath had broken out against Uzzah, and to this day that place is called Perez Uzzah. [fn]

What Kind of God of Justice is this? remember he also killed 70 people in another book for just looking into the ark of covenant, yet he is merciful  , he kills people including children because they worship other Gods without even telling them how to worship him. by the way what is a deity that is supposed to be everywhere doing inside a man made ark? I wonder what kind of God that claims he is good but still accepts human sacrifice. I wonder why a God of justice couldn't appear to the tribes living in Canaan (the land the bibleGod wanted the Israelites to inhabit) and instruct them in the ways he wanted them to live, i.e., give them his commandments, instead, the bibleGod told the Israelites to slaughter them because they were "evil". So if they were so evil, why not teach them the "right" way to live, instead he advocated for the destruction of their villages and stealing of their lands or their enslavement. What a God of justice

Why is homosexuality against God's law, when he created people who are intersexed (if you don't know what that is, look it up on wikipedia). Basically there are many varying degrees of male and female, and it doesn't just mean someone who has the reproductive organs of both genders. One could have ovaries and testes, or one could be chromosomally a male but physically a female. Anyway, so he made people who are intersexed. So what law would apply to them? And what about all the homosexual animals? Why would God make animals to be homosexual if he didn't like it? The bottom line is that in our modern day of civil rights we can look back on the bible and see that our morality has really outgrown it's attitudes. Back when the book was canonized, their morality had not grown passed that of the bible. I'm sure there were many people who did think the stories of a loving god who tortured or killed people for disobedience that are sometimes as trivial as picking sticks on a sabbath or looking into an ark of covenant were somewhat contradictory. But seeing as the only people who needed keeping under the thumb were a supersitious bunch of poor, illierate peasants, it didn't really matter. They weren't likely renowned for their critical thinking skills.

If you can properly interpret Genesis 1-3, you will be able to understand everything else. It will be hard but it's understandable. Believe me it is no different from today. They did what we do today, only they did it differently. And if I were to bring it to today you will agree with it too.

The writers of genesis did not know anything with regards to how the earth operates else they would'nt have written the Noah's ark story, the very incoherent creation story, the Jacob's genetic engineering model, the rainbow as a covenant between the bibleGod and humanity, the garden of eden brohaha, tower of babel as the origin of different languages, rampant incest(Adam, Abraham,Lot, Noah etc), ridiculous story of cain and abel, garden of eden, infact the writers have no knowledge of the world, they thought the region which they lived was the entire world.

As for the Koran, I have no comments that is not my problem.

But I will still ask you to leave us alone in our foolishness o wise one.

One more thing, don't read the Bible to look for what you want to see. You may mislead yourself

The koran is a plagiarized version of the torah, with a diety that is no different than the one in the torah. I am reading the bible to understand it for myself (I am presently in the book of 2nd samuel) but all I see is a very violent people that love slavery, land grabbing and rape(a people that have very little regard for women), a very tribal/racist and manovalent diety that seems to be far less moral than the people he is alleged to be leading. What a book and what a diety. . People don't read the bible at all else their will be very little christains in the world today(the OT is a very dangerous book), people just cherry pick and read the good parts, when I was a christains I never knew that the bible contained this amount of violence, death and destruction. Ahhhh

olabowale:
@Bindex: « #20 on: Today at 10:13:29 PM »
I know something was missing in your train. It just dawned on me; you are one of those muslim by name only, when you were claiming to be muslim. Some of you quickly get seduced to Christianity, even when they claimed to be wearing nikah. And you went all the way; denial of the highest order.

You don't know that the angel of death is Malaika Maut. And malaika Jibril (AS) is very different.

Tell Allah to send malaika Maut to come and cut of my throat for denying him and becoming his enemy, since thats all he knows how to do to his enemies.

~Lady~:
i meant leave us alone. they have no evidence, they cannot support their claim with logic. they quote with no explanation. they misinterpret the Bible. but this isn't ur fight, poke ur nose in ur business only, this isn't it. bye

What logic are you talking about? The one that says kill your family members if they try to lead you away from worshiping the bibleGod or the one that says you should maim your body parts if it causes you to sin? They misinterpret the bible? So only the RCC really knows how to interpret the bible? I am presently reading the bible and koran from the beggining to understand the two books. I am now in the book of Judges in the bible and all I can say is WOW what a book and what a God. As for the Koran all I can say is Na wah.

olabowale:
@Bindex: « #17 on: Today at 07:27:49 PM »
And the same Allah you have denied. I don't know whether to laugh at you or cry for you.

I dont know weather to shed tears of blood for you for believeing in such a dangerous , evil and manovalent deity. I have denied Allah tell him to send Malaika Jibrilu to come and stike me if he can.

Allah through an Imam cured your headache, when you were 14 years old. Yet in your earlier posts, you had indicated that you came out of Islam at 11. Then became Atheist few years sooner until Europe made you a full-blown. You see how Merciful Allah is to you? And see what you give for this Mercy; your denial of Him?

Now about your amputee comment. Let me use Isa bin Mariam as a clear example here and then I will go to Muhammad (AS) to teach you to go back to study the Tafsir and then do some reading of Hadith. Isa bin Mariam (AS) raised a dead person. I am sure the dead person if at the time of dying was given the choice of death or being maimed, he would have chosen being maimed, becoming an amputee. Proof; we see in many wars where the amputee is happy and shows gratitude to God for being alive when he sees corpses of the deads. But thats kind of understanding is beyond your Atheist mind.

Let me make it easier for you. Still using Isa bin Mariam (AS); he cured a man of blindness. This is a man who God had design to be infirmed with not seeing, even though he had a space for eye. Then Isa bin Mariam (AS) cured him of his blindness. That at least settled your problem.

Now let talk about Muhammad (AS). Ali bin AbiTalib was supposed to receive a sword of Islam from the Messenger (AS). But Ali (RA) was aflicted with eye problem that he was blind. When Muhammad (AS) learnt about this, Ali was brought to him, whereby Ali was cured with a very simple Rukya from the lips of the Prophet. The prophet said Bismillahi rRhamanir rRahiim, and he touched his tongue with his finger and use the same finger to put in place the eye of Ali, who instantly was cured. You can hear the story on Youtube.


Now about the amputee; these is one of the signs of Allah amongst humans. The one who lost one hand or arm is grateful because he has one, and better than the one who lost both. Yet the fully and normal limbed person is grateful for being normal. But let just assume that God cures all amputees of their deficiencies. What then? What will satisfy humans? Maybe no death? How then is the day of judgement going to come? How then does a person knows that this world is just a temporary abode? How then a person going to appreciate the favor of God on him? How then will a person like you know that someday you will have to be called to account? You see yourself being considered normal, without a lost of limb, you have not appreciated the God that secured you this normal. You see that you are growing older, yet you have not reflected. How then do you hope to escape punishment when it is time to be punished for evil deeds.

I dont know what to say to all this drivel. I will not be called to account for nothing in front of Allah he only exist in your imaginations. He should keep all his virgins to himself in don't need any I have had enough P***y here on earth.

ogb5:
The bible did not say that action lead to his death, 2 yrs later after being sick. He was an old man when he became sick.

read,

1 Kings 15:23 The rest of all the acts of Asa, and all his might, and all that he did, and the cities which he built, are they not written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Judah? Nevertheless in the time of his old age he was diseased in his feet


Also it was concluded that Asa did what was right before God.

read

1 Kings 15:11 And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father.

The bottom line is that the bible stated that he choose physicians over the lord which was wrong.

~Lady~:
leave

Leave what? Thats what they believe, am I wrong? go through their post, they have more than enough evidence from the bible to show you that the RCC is an extension of satan out to decieve the true christains while you also have more than enough evidence from the same bible to show them that they are wrong and only the RCC is right. Whats wrong with you guys?

~Lady~:
Congratulations, you have stated ur opinion, now pls leave us in our delusion, it is our choice, thank you

OK I will but please try and convince davidylan, Bobbyaf and Ola that the pope is not an agent of satan. Bunch of deluded freaks.

~Lady~:
I absolutely refuse to let stupidity and the devil win. I don't have much tolerance for illogical people which is what I am encountering on this board lately, but I can't stop fighting for the truth.

The Protestants believe that the Pope and the leadership of the RCC are the devils, and here you are talking about the devil that is the protestant church, when will you deluded freaks get it that this whole mumbo jumbo is all nonsense? you guys can not agree on the basic doctrine of your faith, does that not tell you guys something? when you think about all the extraordinary, un-provable, superstitious, never seen by human eye things that you have to have to force yourself to rationalize and believe in to be a Christian, it becomes comically irrational. You have to believe that a divine entity dictated words verbatim to simple ancient men that has a story about a cosmic born Jewish zombie that can make you live forever if you telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in all of humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a forbidden magical tree.

This divine entity is all present and all powerful but can’t be “present” around things like sin nor is it “powerful” enough to withstand sin. It is responsible for creating billions of imperfect humans, blames them for being imperfect despite hardening their minds sometimes by himself, sends his son to be killed by the imperfect humans to make up for their imperfections so that just a few out of the billions will be spared the fire and brimstone that he created for these imperfect humans that he loves so much even though it is written that he onced killed all of them except a drunkard and his disfunctional family that he decided to spare, because they were not perfect enough to admit to their imperfection or believe in the story that the bibleGod sent himself to be killed by himself to save humans from himself.

You have to believe in only one God that is not really one at all, but a three separate part god that no one can possibly understand but just overlooks and accepts. Then have to believe in another evil God like being “Satan” along with demons, angels, saints, elders, heaven, hell, purgatory, unicorns, dragons, supernatural healing(that only take place behind closed doors), prophesizing and a host of unrealistic biblical miracles that pop like magic from a magic wand. Man-made objects like churches, statues, crosses, Bibles, snakes, bread and grape juice become exalted and sacred as if they were pieces of the imaginary God on earth.

In the eyes of many Christians I am the devil, and many hate me as Muslims hate infidels. Many will think I am possessed by some imaginary Satan god of evil. This whole saga is WOW.

~Lady~:
I don't agree with Joyce Meyer, well because women are not supposed to be in the pulpit, I do like that she goes to India to help convert them to Christianity.

I thought the message was for the women of a particular region alone?(women of corinthians or is it damascus) bunch of confused goons.

ogb5:
Which part of the bible. I can get the bible online, just tell me the part of the bible

Asa, when he had a foot disease, went to physicians instead of seeking the Lord. God disapproves of those who seek medical help rather than "seeking the Lord".

2 Chronicles16:12 And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians.

. That action lead to his eventual death.

ogb5:
Which man was punished

Read your bible if you dont have a copy then let me know and I will show you the verse.

~Lady~:
Tell her that God wants her to take the drugs.
Look drugs are not simple, and God provides knowledge to scientists to help in discovering elements in our earth that can assist us in living. I am sick and tired of people, stating such things as "God will cure me without medicine"
He is well capable of doing that, but they are undermining God already by saying that God cannot use people and matter to cure. He did it plenty of times in the New Testament.

Tell her she is meant to take the drugs and that they don't undermine God, but only proves his mighty love.

She is only doing that which is in the bible, the bible says prayers alone is enough, keep in mind that the bibleGod once punished a man for taking medicine when he was sick instead of praying unto him for healing.

Sick country, sick people and a sick leader.

RSA:
Tell that god,that he is senseless,stupid,don't deserve the name god.If your god tell you to go and kill innocent souls then I don't want him or hear about him.
I thought God is about peace,love,forgiving and caring.I though the bible and torah says god is love and if indeed is love why the israel are massacring the innocent because god is in their side?
Davidylan fukc your god.Peace to the world

Read the old testament then only will you understand how pissful the hebrew God is. He is no better than Allah anyway. But I hate Allah more.

**osisi:
Is it because you don't believe in miracles or what?
You've never heard of a healing you can verify?
I am a testimony that healing is real.
As a Child of 1o or 11 years old,I went to crusade near my home and when the man of God said
"If you are sick,lay your hand on your chest and I'll pray"
I had a bad harmattan cough that disappeared instantly.
That was my introducton to healing and Christs saving grace
As I grew older,I understood why the Bible said one must have the mind of a child when it comes to things of God.
Children trust and believe what adults tell them without wavering.
That's the only way God works.
By your simple act of belief.

As a 14 year old muslim I was once taken to an Imam that prayed for me and my headache disappeared immediately. That goes to show the powerful and healing abilities of Allah.




It only takes a mind as gullible as that of a child to understand all the nonsense and lies in the bible and the koran. I am yet to see any God heal an amputee. Why do Christains still go to hospital and take man made drugs when the bible says prayers alone will heal them(remember even if you take poision nothing shall harm you). Remember pastor pat robertson of the 700 club? despite all his claims of "miracle" he still went to the hospital and was operated upon when he was infected with postrate cancer, stupid liars and hypocrites.

What is sin? We ARE at a higher position of morality than the God of the Bible. If those actions in the old testament are indeed more moral, then we should be fine with racism, genocide, slavery, etc. Oh wait, Jesus (God) said that we should love our neighbor as ourselves and the commandment to not kill is clearly written. The bibleGod is not only immoral, he is a hypocrite.

Ok Recognise, is that all? What is the difference with the verses you copied and pasted from the Koran and the ones I copied and pasted from the bible? All the two stupid and foolish Gods(Allah and Jehovah) advocated the killing of the people that failed to worship them.

Aloy.Emeka:
that's an understatement. Our roads are secret graves.

Very true.