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Foreign AffairsRe: 57% Of White Voted Against Obama by bindex(m): 11:59pm On Jan 19, 2009
Another angry Ron Paul supporter displaying tantrums grin grin grin grin. Barack Obama will be sworn in as president today so all the hater should go and kill themselves grin grin grin
PoliticsRe: Sharia Police Block Women's Rally In Kano by bindex(m): 11:39pm On Jan 19, 2009
The very high rate of divorce in northern Nigeria is despicable and alarming, they women are not given anything in return. I support them , they need to stand up and fight for their rights
PoliticsRe: Sharia Police Block Women's Rally In Kano by bindex(m): 11:35pm On Jan 19, 2009
This is the beginning of the creation of a state within a state just like hizbollah in Lebanon.
Christianity EtcRe: Wole Soyinka Does Not Believe In God by bindex(m): 11:30pm On Jan 19, 2009
manmustwac:
Wole Soyinka is too intelligent to believe in an imaginary being
An imaginary being that is believed to have cursed the black race. I wonder what Nigerians really have to show for their over religious activities and excessive believe in the supernatural and various Gods.
Christianity EtcRe: Can God Do Any And Everything? by bindex(op): 10:53pm On Jan 19, 2009
olabowale:
And by the way, Huxley, Allah is not human being. Humans have limitation, and that is why you have that inability to lift everything.

By the way, see the Power of Allah; He made your heart so terrible that you do not believe in Him. Can you proof Him wrong by becoming Muslim, since Christianity failed to shore up your heart?

You remind me of Abu Lahab who was told for 10 years before he died in the Qur'aan that he will die not believing his nephew, the prophet (AS). he said the prophet was a liar, but never proved him wrong and he died as a disbeliever!

Bindex, this is also your case.
Allah is more impotent than Jehovah, he should first of all wake up from his everlasting slumber and deal with the Jews( his arch enemies) who are killing his slaves with impunity in Gaza first before you come here and tell us of how powerful he is. He is powerless.
Christianity EtcRe: Can God Do Any And Everything? by bindex(op): 8:48pm On Jan 19, 2009
kola oloye:
There is a reason for everything,
Read the scripture below to satisfy your curiosity.There is nothing that God cannot do.
No situation is difficult for Him to handle
Judges 2: 20-23
Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel and said,
"Because this nation has violated the covenant that I laid down for their forefathers and has not listened to me,

21[b] I will no longer drive out before them any of the nations Joshua left when he died[/b].

22 I will use them to test Israel and see whether they will keep the way of the LORD and walk in it as their forefathers did."

23 The LORD had allowed those nations to remain; he did not drive them out at once by giving them into the hands of Joshua.
Must you keep on lying to yourself all the time? Christans will see whte and say its red just because they want t keep living n their world of delusion. what has Judges 2: 20-23 got to do with Judges 1: 19? they are two entirely different stories.

Here is the passage from the begging of the chapter.

  Jdg 1:1 After the death of Joshua, the Israelites asked the LORD, "Who will be the first to go up and fight for us against the Canaanites?"
Jdg 1:2 The LORD answered, "Judah is to go; I have given the land into their hands."
Jdg 1:3 Then the men of Judah said to the Simeonites their brothers, "Come up with us into the territory allotted to us, to fight against the Canaanites. We in turn will go with you into yours." So the Simeonites went with them.
Jdg 1:4 When Judah attacked, the LORD gave the Canaanites and Perizzites into their hands and they struck down ten thousand men at Bezek.
Jdg 1:5 It was there that they found Adoni-Bezek and fought against him, putting to rout the Canaanites and Perizzites.
Jdg 1:6 Adoni-Bezek fled, but they chased him and caught him, and cut off his thumbs and big toes.
Jdg 1:7 Then Adoni-Bezek said, "Seventy kings with their thumbs and big toes cut off have picked up scraps under my table. Now God has paid me back for what I did to them." They brought him to Jerusalem, and he died there.
Jdg 1:8 The men of Judah attacked Jerusalem also and took it. They put the city to the sword and set it on fire.
Jdg 1:9 After that, the men of Judah went down to fight against the Canaanites living in the hill country, the Negev and the western foothills.
Jdg 1:10 They advanced against the Canaanites living in Hebron (formerly called Kiriath Arba) and defeated Sheshai, Ahiman and Talmai.
Jdg 1:11 From there they advanced against the people living in Debir (formerly called Kiriath Sepher).
Jdg 1:12 And Caleb said, "I will give my daughter Acsah in marriage to the man who attacks and captures Kiriath Sepher."
Jdg 1:13 Othniel son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother, took it; so Caleb gave his daughter Acsah to him in marriage.
Jdg 1:14 One day when she came to Othniel, she urged him [fn] to ask her father for a field. When she got off her donkey, Caleb asked her, "What can I do for you?"
Jdg 1:15 She replied, "Do me a special favor. Since you have given me land in the Negev, give me also springs of water." Then Caleb gave her the upper and lower springs.
Jdg 1:16 The descendants of Moses' father-in-law, the Kenite, went up from the City of Palms [fn] with the men of Judah to live among the people of the Desert of Judah in the Negev near Arad.
Jdg 1:17 Then the men of Judah went with the Simeonites their brothers and attacked the Canaanites living in Zephath, and they totally destroyed [fn] the city. Therefore it was called Hormah. [fn]
Jdg 1:18 The men of Judah also took [fn] Gaza, Ashkelon and Ekron--each city with its territory.
Jdg 1:19 The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots.

Deal with it and stop spinning verses that have absolutely nothing to do with each other just to prove a point that does not exist. The bibleGod was unable to defeat the people because they had chariots of iron. Keep in mind that in the begining before the men of Judah went to war this is what he said "Judah is to go; I have given the land into their hands." . After making such a declearation he was unable to defeat men because they were riding chariots of iron. what an all powerful being!
Christianity EtcRe: Is The Black Race Cursed In The Bible? by bindex(m): 8:15pm On Jan 19, 2009
Canaan seems to be reference to 'Canaanites', most likely propaganda for the time, the Israeli tribes were once at war with the Canaanites

http://history-world.org/canaanite_culture_and_religion.htm
But they're not the only parts of propaganda, a lot of the pagan hate is propaganda against those they've fought. (Canaanites were pretty much pagans) the tower of Babel is one, which appears to be a mockery of the concept of Ziggurats (which amusingly the same concept is used by churches - the idea of building tall to be closer to 'God' or the 'Gods') Babel is a reference to Babylon and the character Nimrod, is well, a reference to Nimrod, both Mesopotamian cities, The Israelis fought them too. Same with the Assyrians, which are noted as the bad guys in the story of Jonah. The Devil is even a mockery of their pagan foes - pagan gods were normally half man, half animal, the devil is composed of part man, part goat (much like a Faun).
Foreign AffairsRe: Israel: No Hamas Rockets Were Fired During The Ceasefire by bindex(m): 1:24am On Jan 19, 2009
Auwal87 knock it off, pls go and take a nap.
Foreign AffairsRe: Israel Declares Cease-fire ! by bindex(m): 1:15am On Jan 19, 2009
davidylan:
what a sick fool. Weren't you one of those snivelling for a ceasefire last week?
grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin
PoliticsRe: Nigerians Are Born Cowards! by bindex(m): 1:10am On Jan 19, 2009
nigerians cowards?
when i saw this,the first thing i did was try to confirm my suspicions which is that the phil of a guy must be a diasporian,and true enough he was,i stopped reading after that,
nigerians are not cowards,they have to contend with and struggle daily with phcn,water,bad roads,bad leaders,fear of armed robbery e.t.c while th likes of phil are abroad in their comfort zone writing useless articles,if you cannot go to nigeria and stand shoulder to shoulder with these sme nigerians to effect change,then you have not earned any right to call them cowards,after all you are several thousands km away from the reality on ground
Nigeria is currently where it is because most of the people living in the country reason like the poster above. What a shame.If I remember correctly over 2 million people gathered in Kano state when sharia was launched back in 2001 people came out and killed each other just so that sharia would be implemented, millions of people gather every year for various Christians crusades all over the country blocking major highways and disrupting business buy causing delays and wasting a lot of man hours etc but people can not organize themselves to go and protest or fight for their rights. Its sickening. Nigerians depend too much on the supernatural, which have failed us for the past 49 years we keep on praying and wishing that the Gods will help us solve or endless problems, lets challenge ourselves and take the bull by its horn. Prayers and believe in the supernatural has flailed us so its time we try something else. something like accountability and fearlessly fighting for what we believe is truly ours.
Christianity EtcRe: The Beauty Of Mathematics by bindex(m): 12:25am On Jan 19, 2009
Image123:
Bindex just keeps popping up.Troubled soul. I pray that you find true rest. Christ Jesus can give you rest. He knocks at the door of your heart.
grin grin grin grin grin When cornered all you have are words like troubled soul, wicked soul, evil soul, disturbed soul, hopeless soul, soulless soul, dangerous soul.  grin grin grin grin troubled I am not I can assure you. How does pointing out a fraudulent work amount to being troubled? Some one called me a wicked soul that is out to destroy the good work of God just yesterday because I said that there was no way pastor Adeboye could have travelled for more than 300km on an empty tank so this is nothing new. There are millions of Christians in Nigeria that are praying and fasting day and night for Jesus to give them rest but things keep getting worse for them tell Jesus to go and give them rest,he can't even give rest to his children talk less of me that believes he is no different from Harry Porter. I don't need his rest I already have mine.
Christianity EtcRe: Cleaning Or Church by bindex(m): 12:10am On Jan 19, 2009
Redsun nice input  grin grin grin grin grin mazaje once wrote that you are one of his best posters here on nairaland, I went through most of your post and I am now an admirer of your post.
Christianity EtcRe: Are We The New Chosen People by bindex(m): 12:01am On Jan 19, 2009
Image123:
@bindex
that your copy and paste I must say is a 'mishmash of lies'. I'm sure as a rational person,you properly verified the story in which you put your little faith.
Mishmash of what lies? Can you give me the names of the doctors that confirmed the guys death? Its a fact that the guy was not embalmed why did  Bonnke, who calls himself a man of God, go so far as to lie to the world by claiming that Daniel Ekechukwu was injected with embalming fluid?  Why did Rev Bonnke not bring back to life several Nigerians who were trampled to death during his crusades in Benin and Abeokuta? Can he ever claim to have raised the dead in his native Germany?
Christianity EtcRe: Are We The New Chosen People by bindex(m): 10:56pm On Jan 18, 2009
KnowAll:
Like the isrealites of the old testament are we the mordern day Chosen People

On my recent few trips to Nigeria, I noticed the proliferation of Churhes in every nook and corner, I know some people we come out and start saying that churches are industry in its own right in Nigeria today. I think it is a worthwhile development, I think it is necessary we do not lose sight of the central essence of the Gospel which is to win souls for the lord. The fact a pastor mis-appropiate church funds is something that the pastor will have to  answer in the day of judgement. I think we Nigerians should be proud that we have direct line with the lord.
Reason for my summations are the followings :
[i]
1. Remember General Sani Abacha he was a brutal dictator, I have been informed by reliable source he died because very strong christains prayed and fasted for 40 days praying for change in the country. The result Abacha went to bed never to wake up again. Christians in Nigeria continue to put your faith in God. With faith we as christains can move mountains. See what is happening in Zimbabwe, the people should go on there knees and pray for salvation.
Is this a joke or what? during Abacha's regime Nigerians had electricity but today Nigerians are with out electricity, in fact power generation has never been at this low level ever. Christians in Nigeria have continued to put their trust in God and what have they gotten in return? How have the trust Nigerians have in their Gods helped the country? How has it helped in reducing the very high cases of armed robbery, disease, poor level of education, very high rate of road accidents, niger delta crisis, poverty, unemployment, premature death, lack of value for human life and the current state and cesspool that has become Nigeria? Do you think prayers alone can change Zimbabwe? There is a country called Sweden where 80 percent of the people living in that country do not believe in any God or Gods, they never pray and yet they have one of the best countries on earth.

2. The man that rose from the dead, the death of that pastor in Onitsha, was well documented, 3 doctors confirmed he was dead, his body was taken all over the place for 3 days and on the 3rd day he rose back to life in Raihman bonker's crusade. I am not argueing for or against whether it happened, the fact is,  it is still the best example of mordern day resurection till date.
This is a BIG lie no doctor ever confirmed that he ever died. Are you serious by your comments of not arguing if it really happened or not? Modern day ressurection? grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin

A Tale of Lies, Deceit, and Fraud.

On March 6th I was in the southern Nigeria City of Onitsha to investigate the 21st century resurrection story. I arrived in Onitsha by 9:00 a.m., Nigerian time. I went straight to the Church of God Mission International, a gigantic cathedral located along Nkisi Road.

When I arrived at the church, none of the pastors was around. I was asked to wait. About two hours later I met one of the ministers who introduced himself as Pastor Barth. He refused to discuss the matter of the supposed resurrection with me. Instead, he advised me to wait until the pastor in charge arrived.

Two hours later I was ushered into an office where Pastor Barth and the minister in charge of relations, Pastor Paul, were seated. I informed them of my mission. Pastor Paul said that the story is true, and that the whole episode was recorded on videotape. I wanted to purchase the tape, but they said that the people in charge were not around!

I then asked to see and meet with the modern-day Lazarus, Pastor Daniel Ekechukwu. Pastor Paul gave me directions to his home at Osuma Lane, along Awka Road in Onitsha. Before leaving, however, Pastor Paul brought me what he said was the photo of Daniel when he was in the mortuary. I asked him to give me a copy of the photo, but he refused, saying that it was the only copy they had!

I mounted a motorbike and left for Osuma Lane. Upon arriving there I inquired as to where I could find the house of the man that was resurrected from the dead. In very little time I was directed to the place. Pastor Daniel Ekechukwu was not at home, however. The family members said that he had gone to Lagos so that the charismatic evangelist Reinhard Bonnke could take him abroad.

In any case, they received me very well. They invited me into their living room and narrated the whole story again. They showed me several photos of Daniel when he was in the mortuary, on his supposed day of resurrection, and so forth. After much pleading and persuasion, they gave me the photo with Daniel in the mortuary.

Before I left the house, I called the younger brother of Daniel, Mr. Kingsley Ekechukwu, whom was reportedly involved in the auto crash that had injured Daniel. I asked him to tell me exactly what happened. Kingsley told me that after the auto crash, Daniel had been taken to Charles Borromeo Hospital—a popular clinic in Onitsha. While there, Daniel had complained of “spiritual attacks,” and requested that he be transferred to a private clinic in Owerri, which is about 80 kilometers from Onitsha.

On their way to Owerri that Friday, Kingsley said, Daniel stopped breathing. Upon their arrival at the clinic, the doctor advised them to take Daniel’s body to the hospital. His body was deposited in a local mortuary on that same day. Kingsley informed me that on Saturday night, Daniel’s wife, Nneka, had a dream and was instructed to take Daniel’s body to the Rev. Bonnke, who was then visiting Onitsha for prayers. Kingsley said that he had had a similar dream.

The following Sunday they had gone to collect Daniel’s body. At the mortuary, Kingsley said the mortician was complaining that Daniel had been disturbing him and had not allowed him to sleep for two days. The mortician had related that on the night that Daniel’s body had been deposited in the morgue, he heard people singing. When he went to investigate, however, the singing stopped.

Kingsley further stated that on Saturday night something pushed him and caused him to hit his head on the wall as he attempted to embalm Daniel’s body. For this reason, he did not embalm Daniel’s corpse. According to Kingsley, they transported Daniel’s body to Bonnke’s meeting in Onitsha that Sunday. There, Daniel was revived during a prayer session. To confirm what he had said earlier, I asked Kingsley if Daniel’s body had been injected with embalming fluid. He answered, “no!”
Personally, I do not believe that Daniel Ekechukwu ever died. First, Kingsley confirmed that Daniel’s body had not been injected with embalming fluid. According to medical experts I interviewed, however, a corpse should have a strong odor and the abdomen should be swollen after three days if it is not embalmed. Judging from the photo of Daniel when he was said to have been at the mortuary, and according to the testimony of his brother, this was not the case,

Second, it is unlikely that any doctor certified Daniel’s death at Owerri. Third, it is hard to believe the actions that supposedly transpired after Daniel’s request to be transferred. It all sounds like a mishmash of lies and fantasies.



Background Information and Comments

It must be noted that in Nigeria today, much supposedly transpires through faith healing and miracles. Nigerians have a voracious appetite for religious and supernatural nonsense. Pastors will especially go to any length—ritual killings, murder, and sacrifice—to prove their calling, power, and mandate. Many Nigerian pastors claim that they can cure HIV/AIDS and other incurable diseases. People take part in arranged confessions. HIV patients, after prayer sessions, alter their medical reports to reflect that they are negative. Those who claim to be possessed by demons wiggle and throw themselves on the ground during religious revivals. Holy mountains and adoration grounds are springing up daily. Nigerians troop to these places to hear messages from God through the mouths of people of questionable mental health. There is much dishonesty, fraud, and deception in the land.

The case of Daniel Ekechukwu, however, is an unprecedented one. None of the Nigerian religious maniacs has gone to the extent of claiming to have risen—or to have been raised—from the dead. That is just a pathetic symptom of the extent to which Nigerians have fallen in terms of religious madness, gullibility, and simplemindedness. After all, common sense tells us that no one comes back from the dead, the folktales of Jesus and Lazarus notwithstanding.

Some Nigerians are wondering why an evangelist of the caliber of Reinhard Bonnke would decide to associate himself with this dubious and fraudulent story. Why would Bonnke, who calls himself a man of God, go so far as to lie to the world by claiming that Daniel Ekechukwu was injected with embalming fluid? Moreover, if the Rev. Bonnke thinks he has the power to resurrect people from the dead, why did he not revive the hundreds of Christians that were massacred in Kano in 1991 following his visit to that city? Why did he not bring back to life several Nigerians who were trampled to death during his crusades in Benin and Abeokuta?

One thing is certain. All efforts must be made to promote skepticism, rationalism, and free thought in Nigeria. Nigerians—like other Africans—need more science, reason, and free inquiry. We welcome assistance from Western members of the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP), and other interested organizations.
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/aah/igwe_11_3.htm

3. Pastor Ashiomolowo's church in England has the largest congregation in Europe.
Most of the people that attend his church are Nigerians, going to church has become a culture amongst Nigerians. Back when I was in Sweden Nigerians always went to church.


4. The Nigerian branch of the Anglican church has broken ranks with its parent church in England. The reason been churches in england and american beleifs in having gay bishops. This view is un-acceptable to Nigerian bishops we follow the word of the bible not political correctness.
The Anglican Church was created by an English king for his people because the catholic church will not allow him divorce his wife. Can't you see the word Anglo inside what has that got to do with Nigeria? Nigerians do not accept gays and lesbians but they accept killing each other in the name of religion.

5. I read an article in which the world bank said Nigerians economy defiles economic theory. The economy of Nigeria should have collasped long time ago with spate of corruption taken place there, but for His grace we are weathering the storm we thank God for that.
Is this a joke or what? and how is Nigeria's economy doing? The Nigeria economy has been in comatose for the past 20 years. By the way this drivel of yours are the assertions of an uneducated person I must say.
Christianity EtcRe: Is Christianity A Monotheism? by bindex(m): 8:26pm On Jan 18, 2009
reservoir:
Is Christianity a Monotheism ? I asked this question cause i am really confused.  Can 1+1+ 1 actually equal  1. House members , shed more light on this.
Shut up there, Is the Arabic invention and plagiarism of what the call Allah any better?
Christianity EtcRe: From Where Did Cain's Bride And Her Family Originate? by bindex(m): 7:53pm On Jan 18, 2009
reservoir:
Are we now saying we know science more than God ? The truth is that the confusion arise due to interference of humans with the word of God. Adam and Eve are truly the first two humans created by God.
The bibleGod, but not the Hindu Gods or other Gods.
Christianity EtcRe: Nigerian Raised From The Dead by bindex(m): 2:03pm On Jan 18, 2009
idupaul:
SHUT UP
grin grin grin grin grin grin
Christianity EtcRe: From Where Did Cain's Bride And Her Family Originate? by bindex(m): 1:59pm On Jan 18, 2009
olabowale:
I wonder if the greasley bear doesnt hyberbate? Even though I am not arguing for the Christians, since I am a muslim. I know that Alla the Almighty is capable of doing all things. The animals could have been shrunk or not. They could have been the babies or not. Since they are believers and only believers were housed by this Vessel, it was not impossible that Allah inspired them to go in there, willingly and each animal in its space.

No one says that they have to eat to survive, throughout the journey. No one says that they have to be wide awake throughout the journey.

Whats so interesting that these disbelieving atheists and agnostics have not thought about is that what form did each animal appeared on earth, when it first appeared. When they ask that questions and get the answers from themsleves, they will know that Allah the Creator can do anything. If He says something happens, I believe it. I do not have to ask how, when, where, etc. If He says something does not happen, I simply and immediately accept it. I don't have to say it did happen because others are beating that drum.
Shut up there Olabowale apart from plagiarizing other peoples work what else do the writers of the Koran know?
Foreign AffairsRe: Hamas Charter (complete) by bindex(m): 11:17pm On Jan 17, 2009
auwal87:
These Prophets are of Jewish tribe not Judaism, they are sent in different times and for different purposes.
Will I ask you why you hate the Arabs even though they are descendants of Abraham?
Most of the Jews (except some few) are blindly following Zionism. So, we hate "Jews following Zionism" not "Jews following Judaism"

What? Sudanese in Israel? Please stop playing around here. These are your tales. I wonder where you are getting them from.
Ok, you that you mind, what have you done to speak against those causing the starvation in Darfur? By the way, the conflict will be resolved in coming weeks.

We care about Children more than anyone else.

No, more like Islam was the religion of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad.

It means?

Jesus is a Prophet of Allah, we believe in Him, and his Book, and we believe He will appear again at the end of the world to fight his ENEMY, which the Zionists will give rise to. If he were to appear at this time, even some Christians will turn against him, therefore also becoming Anti-Christ. I am ever ready to join his Fight against you (Zionists).

Regarding the Illuminatis, you know very well what I mean, except you do not want others to understand your secrets. You always push things to "conspiracy theories" when there are dozens of evidences to prove against you.

I better advise you stop worshiping Satan (your one eyed god).
Are you completely stupid? Do you know what you are saying? Its funny because I used to beleive in all these non sense before grin grin
Christianity EtcRe: The Beauty Of Mathematics by bindex(m): 10:41pm On Jan 17, 2009
OLAADEGBU:
If you knew that you will be cutting and pasting you should have said so instead of boasting that you could do better than Dr. Panin, and even you failed miserably in your effort to copy and paste. Next time digest and comprehend what you are about to cut and paste or rather be original in your posting instead of blowing hot air that only exposed you to be a novice.
Are you talking about yourself? You copied and pasted someones work without showing the source till I did, and when I did I referenced my source. All you did was copy and paste while the gullibles here was busy praising you thinking it was your own reason and writings you were displaying. Next time digest and comprehend what you are plagiarizing.

All this effort to discredit honest scientific research of real scientists would not validate your own position, that there is no God. Real scientists that were and are Christians have produced workable formula that qualified their researches and made it to become scientific laws but the same cannot be said about your evolutionary theories that has remained as a conjecture and cannot be made into a scientific law because they are unreasonable, irrational, unscientific and unworkable. Can you tell me any workable formula of the theory of evolution? It does not work, instead of validating and acknowledging these Christian biblical creationists in their efforts you guys are not even shameful to use the formulas to do science being inconsistent with your beliefs.
There is no effort to discredit any body the guy used some dishonest methods to come to his convoluted conclusions which others looked into and found that he was not honest with his work, he delibarately distorted numbers, interpretations and facts to fit into his work.

For your information, is it only mathematics that has rattled your philosophical belief of the existence of God? Check the weblink below and discover how archaeology amongst other disciplines confirms the accuracy of the Bible.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/does-archaeology-support-the-bible
Visit the web site below and see how archaeology amongst other disciplines have refuted the accuracy of the bible.

Archaeologists such as Israel Finkelstein, Ze'ev Herzog and William G. Dever, regard the Exodus as non-historical, at best containing a small germ of truth. According to Prof. Ze'ev Herzog, Director of the Institute of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University "This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel, The many Egyptian documents that we have make no mention of the Israelites' presence in Egypt and are also silent about the events of the exodus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses

The archaelogical evidence suggests the Israelites originated from the local Canaanite population.

There's certainly NO evidence whatsoever for an actual "Moses" or "Abraham" outside of the Torah, although I suppose it's possible that the legends grew up around some real person.

The onus is on you to disprove the mathematical assertions made by the Christian creationist scientists. And while you are busy browsing the internet for what to copy and paste make sure you understand it adequately, since you have failed miserably to rise up to the challenge thrown at you to come up with the geneaology with the criteria given.

Also read up on how the Alexandrian manuscripts came to be before you shoot yourself in the foot again. tongue

PS: This weblink will help you to get the facts in a proper perspective regarding the Alexandrian manuscripts and the Textus Receptus.
You don't really know what you are saying. Next time before you copy and paste someones elses work pls remember to write down or reference the source.
Christianity EtcRe: Nigerian Raised From The Dead by bindex(m): 10:17pm On Jan 17, 2009
OLAADEGBU:
The reason why the Word of God tags you as unbelievers is because you do not believe His Word.   It is your choice where you will end up, but don't blame God that He did not warn you before hand.  This is what the Bible says about hell, you can either believe it or disbelieve, doubt or deny it, the choice is yours.
Which of his word? The bibleGods inability to kill off the enemies of his people because they were riding on chariots of iron of the fact that he tried to kill his best friend Moses?

There are those who accept that Hell is a place of punishment, but believe that the punishment is to be annihilated—to cease conscious existence.  They can’t conceive that the punishment of the wicked will be conscious and eternal.  If they are correct, then a man like Adolph Hitler, who was responsible for the deaths of millions, is being “punished” merely with eternal sleep.  His fate is simply to return to the non-existent state he was in before he was born, where he doesn’t even know that he is being punished.

However, Scripture paints a different story.  The rich man who found himself in Hell (Luke 16:19-31) was conscious.  He was able to feel pain, to thirst, and to experience remorse.  He wasn’t asleep in the grave; he was in a place of “torment.” If Hell is a place of knowing nothing or a reference to the grave into which we go at death, Jesus’ statements about Hell make no sense.  He said that if your hand, foot, or eye causes you to sin, it would be better to remove it than to go into Hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched (Mark 9:43-48).

The Bible refers to the fate of the unsaved with such fearful words as the following:

[list]
[li]Shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2) [/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Everlasting punishment” (Matthew 25:46) [/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 24:51) [/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Fire unquenchable” (Luke 3:17) [/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish” (Romans 2:8,9) [/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord” (2 Thessalonians 1:9)[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Eternal fire, the blackness of darkness for ever” (Jude 1:7,13) [/li]
[/list]
Revelation 14:10,11 tells us the final, eternal destiny of the sinner:He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone, the smoke of their torment ascended up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day or night."

http://www.av1611.org/hell.html
Yes we all want to go to hell, is that all?
Christianity EtcRe: Man Refuses To Drive "probably No God" Bus by bindex(m): 10:11pm On Jan 17, 2009
The WISE believe that he is not. Bindex 11:6
Christianity EtcRe: From Where Did Cain's Bride And Her Family Originate? by bindex(m): 10:08pm On Jan 17, 2009
Image123:
@bindex
do you have a list of the names of all the scientists in your room,or you have ability to revoke their license.take am easy o.
About miracles,I've told you that you're incapable of understanding them except of course you become spiritual.If you're never seen a miracle and you're so particular about seeing one,simply go to a crusade with sickpeople,chances are that you'll see one.Or travel down to Asia,meet all this people who swallow swords and hang in the air.Anybody can work miracle this days.I bed to this later
All of the "miracles" in the crusades are staged, Until a pastor heals a blind person, a deaf person or an amputee in a varifiable way for all to see I here by declear all the "miracles" people are experiencing in Nigeria as a sham. why arent pastors curing people of Aids and healing the blind in Europe and America? That a lot says everything about the so called "miracles" people are experiecing in Nigeria. Remember that pastor TB Joshua despite all his miracles was unable to heal Daniel Amokachi when he went and meet him for prayers over his injured knee, why is it that unknown faces are able to recieve miracles but known faces(Amokachi) are unable?

People learn how to swallow swords because they trained thair bodys for a long time to be able to accomodate the sword, try and watch the national geographic channel, all these "miraculous" feats have been explained there. People even use their body parts to break wall of blocks, ice, bricks by learing how to concentrate their muscles and apply them forcefully in a particular fashion. No body has ever hanged in the air without some form of support ever, if there is then tell me his/her name. Infact all I need is a picture of such a person. You are really funny grin grin grin
Christianity EtcRe: Nigerian Raised From The Dead by bindex(m): 7:48pm On Jan 17, 2009
A Tale of Lies, Deceit, and Fraud.

On March 6th I was in the southern Nigeria City of Onitsha to investigate the 21st century resurrection story. I arrived in Onitsha by 9:00 a.m., Nigerian time. I went straight to the Church of God Mission International, a gigantic cathedral located along Nkisi Road.

When I arrived at the church, none of the pastors was around. I was asked to wait. About two hours later I met one of the ministers who introduced himself as Pastor Barth. He refused to discuss the matter of the supposed resurrection with me. Instead, he advised me to wait until the pastor in charge arrived.

Two hours later I was ushered into an office where Pastor Barth and the minister in charge of relations, Pastor Paul, were seated. I informed them of my mission. Pastor Paul said that the story is true, and that the whole episode was recorded on videotape. I wanted to purchase the tape, but they said that the people in charge were not around!

I then asked to see and meet with the modern-day Lazarus, Pastor Daniel Ekechukwu. Pastor Paul gave me directions to his home at Osuma Lane, along Awka Road in Onitsha. Before leaving, however, Pastor Paul brought me what he said was the photo of Daniel when he was in the mortuary. I asked him to give me a copy of the photo, but he refused, saying that it was the only copy they had!

I mounted a motorbike and left for Osuma Lane. Upon arriving there I inquired as to where I could find the house of the man that was resurrected from the dead. In very little time I was directed to the place. Pastor Daniel Ekechukwu was not at home, however. The family members said that he had gone to Lagos so that the charismatic evangelist Reinhard Bonnke could take him abroad.

In any case, they received me very well. They invited me into their living room and narrated the whole story again. They showed me several photos of Daniel when he was in the mortuary, on his supposed day of resurrection, and so forth. After much pleading and persuasion, they gave me the photo with Daniel in the mortuary.

Before I left the house, I called the younger brother of Daniel, Mr. Kingsley Ekechukwu, whom was reportedly involved in the auto crash that had injured Daniel. I asked him to tell me exactly what happened. Kingsley told me that after the auto crash, Daniel had been taken to Charles Borromeo Hospital—a popular clinic in Onitsha. While there, Daniel had complained of “spiritual attacks,” and requested that he be transferred to a private clinic in Owerri, which is about 80 kilometers from Onitsha.

On their way to Owerri that Friday, Kingsley said, Daniel stopped breathing. Upon their arrival at the clinic, the doctor advised them to take Daniel’s body to the hospital. His body was deposited in a local mortuary on that same day. Kingsley informed me that on Saturday night, Daniel’s wife, Nneka, had a dream and was instructed to take Daniel’s body to the Rev. Bonnke, who was then visiting Onitsha for prayers. Kingsley said that he had had a similar dream.

The following Sunday they had gone to collect Daniel’s body. At the mortuary, Kingsley said the mortician was complaining that Daniel had been disturbing him and had not allowed him to sleep for two days. The mortician had related that on the night that Daniel’s body had been deposited in the morgue, he heard people singing. When he went to investigate, however, the singing stopped.

Kingsley further stated that on Saturday night something pushed him and caused him to hit his head on the wall as he attempted to embalm Daniel’s body. For this reason, he did not embalm Daniel’s corpse. According to Kingsley, they transported Daniel’s body to Bonnke’s meeting in Onitsha that Sunday. There, Daniel was revived during a prayer session. To confirm what he had said earlier, I asked Kingsley if Daniel’s body had been injected with embalming fluid. He answered, “no!”
Personally, I do not believe that Daniel Ekechukwu ever died. First, Kingsley confirmed that Daniel’s body had not been injected with embalming fluid. According to medical experts I interviewed, however, a corpse should have a strong odor and the abdomen should be swollen after three days if it is not embalmed. Judging from the photo of Daniel when he was said to have been at the mortuary, and according to the testimony of his brother, this was not the case..

Second, it is unlikely that any doctor certified Daniel’s death at Owerri. Third, it is hard to believe the actions that supposedly transpired after Daniel’s request to be transferred. It all sounds like a mishmash of lies and fantasies.



Background Information and Comments

It must be noted that in Nigeria today, much supposedly transpires through faith healing and miracles. Nigerians have a voracious appetite for religious and supernatural nonsense. Pastors will especially go to any length—ritual killings, murder, and sacrifice—to prove their calling, power, and mandate. Many Nigerian pastors claim that they can cure HIV/AIDS and other incurable diseases. People take part in arranged confessions. HIV patients, after prayer sessions, alter their medical reports to reflect that they are negative. Those who claim to be possessed by demons wiggle and throw themselves on the ground during religious revivals. Holy mountains and adoration grounds are springing up daily. Nigerians troop to these places to hear messages from God through the mouths of people of questionable mental health. There is much dishonesty, fraud, and deception in the land.

The case of Daniel Ekechukwu, however, is an unprecedented one. None of the Nigerian religious maniacs has gone to the extent of claiming to have risen—or to have been raised—from the dead. That is just a pathetic symptom of the extent to which Nigerians have fallen in terms of religious madness, gullibility, and simplemindedness. After all, common sense tells us that no one comes back from the dead, the folktales of Jesus and Lazarus notwithstanding.

Some Nigerians are wondering why an evangelist of the caliber of Reinhard Bonnke would decide to associate himself with this dubious and fraudulent story. Why would Bonnke, who calls himself a man of God, go so far as to lie to the world by claiming that Daniel Ekechukwu was injected with embalming fluid? Moreover, if the Rev. Bonnke thinks he has the power to resurrect people from the dead, why did he not revive the hundreds of Christians that were massacred in Kano in 1991 following his visit to that city? Why did he not bring back to life several Nigerians who were trampled to death during his crusades in Benin and Abeokuta?

One thing is certain. All efforts must be made to promote skepticism, rationalism, and free thought in Nigeria. Nigerians—like other Africans—need more science, reason, and free inquiry. We welcome assistance from Western members of the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP), and other interested organizations.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/aah/igwe_11_3.htm
Christianity EtcRe: The Beauty Of Mathematics by bindex(m): 7:31pm On Jan 17, 2009
OLAADEGBU:
The challenge thrown at you was that since you boasted that you could do better than Dr. Panin, that you should write out the genealogy (family tree) of someone with the criteria given:

[list]
[li]
The number of words you use must be an exact multiple of seven.
The number of letters must also be divisible by seven exactly.
The number of vowels is to be divisible by seven.
The number of words that begin with a vowel must be divisible by seven
The number of words that occur more than once must be divisible by seven.
The number of words that occur in more than one form must be divisible by seven
The number of nouns must be divisible by seven.
The number of names shall be divisible by seven and only seven other kinds of nouns will be permitted.
The number of male names shall be divisible by seven
The number of generations shall be divisible by seven.[/li]
[/list]

Instead of you to comply with the criteria you first of all accused me of plagiarizing the work of Dr. Panin then you proceeded to cut and paste from the internet (double copying and pasting) shocked that used a cock and bull story to press their point home.  The genealogy of Jesus Christ was not made up by Dr. Panin because he was not born by the time the gospel of Mark was written in its original Greek form.  And the Alexandrian manuscripts that were promoted by Westcott and Hort was not used.  The efforts of Brooke Foss Westcott and Fenton John Anthony Hort who where agnostics were to discredit the Textus Receptus which was the traditional source document, the Alexandrian codices and their impact on many of the recent translations, have become suspect and controversial.  I can understand your preference and sympathy for the corrupted Alexandrian text since it tallies with your atheistic leanings, hence it is convenient for you to call Dr. Panin's work a fraud.

If you are to cut and paste at least do it once, and the quantity of your post does not mean that it has quality and certainly does not show a good example of your scholarly intelligence that you have boasted of earlier. tongue
You make me laugh, All you did was copy and paste things that you were not really sure of. Agreed I copied and pasted but I provided the source for you to see didnt I?

Textual analysis or Cheating?

Everyone familiar with the history of the Greek New Testament knows that there are very many editions.  The primary reason for this is that they follow the decisions of editors who have different degrees of access to early manuscripts and different opinions on how discrepancies between them should be resolved.  The result of this subjectivity is that, apart from intentional reprintings, all the editions differ from one another.  Sometimes the differences are small, and sometimes they are large, but almost any difference is harmful to Panin's results.  That is because many of Panin's patterns rely on the exact words, or even the exact letters, that appear in the text.
Panin used the edition of Westcott and Hort as the "basis" for his work, but very often made use of the many alternative readings that those authors suggested.  He was prepared to pick and choose almost arbitrarily from the variations, meaning that in fact he was really working with a huge number of texts, few of them corresponding to any real manuscript.   After this deliberate tweaking of the text to make his patterns work, he then calculated "probabilities" without taking that tweaking into account.  Panin even published his own Greek text, carefully tweaked to provide the patterns that he most liked.
Panin believed that he was reconstructing the original text, but his logic was circular.  By deliberately designing the patterns himself by tweaking the text, he eliminated his own argument that the patterns proved an original design.  The very most he could logically conclude was that his attempt to produce patterns had been successful.
Incidentally, the edition of Westcott and Hort is today regarded as poor scholarship.

http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/panin_mark.html

If you insist that the bible from the new testament to the old explain the reality that Jesus was who he was based on the explanation in the bible then go ahead and do so. Stop using the mathematical logic of fraudsters to prove the existence or realities of the biblical assertions.  By the way I would ask some questions about the mathematical assertions regarding John 1:1 and Genesis 1:1:

1. Are the calculations correct (I am to lazy right now, but you could do the calculation based on the transformation of the alphanumericals)?

2. Where does the formula number of letters x the product of the letters divided by the number of words x the product of words come from?

3. What is connection between the verses and the numbers allegedly contained in them?

4. What is the connection between John 1:1 and Genesis 1:1?

5. Why are the numbers calculated actually not pi and e but in fact huge numbers with differing exponents (Pi factor 1017, e factor 1065)?

6. What about 1, 0 , and i?

The way in which 'meaningful' numbers are generated from the text is highly suspect. The formula used has no obvious meaning in regard to both the verses and the numbers calculated. It looks as if each verse of the bible was numerically calculated by a computer program and then different mathematical operations were unleashed on the stream of data to see whether something can be generated from it. I bet if you look for any five digit number in the text, using any mathematical formula you can think of and ignore everything that comes after these five digits when you finally found something that starts with those you can find it in some verse or other. After all the bible contains over 30,000 verses, over 730,000 words and over 4,400,000 characters. No wonder 5 digits of Pi x 1017 is somewhere in there,
Christianity EtcRe: Man Refuses To Drive "probably No God" Bus by bindex(m): 7:07pm On Jan 17, 2009
OLAADEGBU:
or rather "A fool says in his heart, THERE IS NO GOD" (Psalm 14:1)
A lunatic says in his heart that there must be a God.(Bindex 14:1)
Christianity EtcRe: The Beauty Of Mathematics by bindex(m): 3:05pm On Jan 17, 2009
OLAADEGBU:
I


Alright then, if you feel that you are the latest Albert Einstein I challenge you to write up a genealogy of someone using the following mathematical rules and let us see how many heptadic constraintsthat you can come up with. cool

[list]
[li]The number of words you use must be an exact multiple of seven.[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]The number of letters must also be divisible by seven exactly.[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]The number of vowels is to be divisible by seven.[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]The number of words that begin with a vowel must be divisible by seven[/li]
[/list].
[list]
[li]The number of words that occur more than once must be divisible by seven.[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]The number of words that occur in more than one form must be divisible by seven[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]The number of nouns must be divisible by seven.[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]The number of names shall be divisible by seven and only seven other kinds of nouns will be permitted.[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]The number of male names shall be divisible by seven.[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]The number of generations shall be divisible by seven.[/li]
[/list]

So you feel that you are more intelligent than Dr. Panin right?  Go ahead and solve the challenge thrown to you above and make sure you show us some if not more heptadic constraints that you boasted of, and don't come back to show your face if you fail in this assignment. wink
I said the guys work has been shown to be a fraud so why are you still copying and pasting? did you didnt even bother to read the greek or what ever writings, you just assumed they were true because they proved that the bible was real. Just take you time and go through this links.


Another example of coincidence ?Miracles in Edgar Allen Poe
The following example is an expansion of one first presented on USENET by Charles Culver of Computers for Christ.
For this example, we will use numerical values for English letters assigned using the same pattern as used for Arabic,
Greek and Hebrew.
A=1 B=2 C=3 D=4 E=5 F=6 G=7 H=8 I=9
J=10 K=20 L=30 M=40 N=60 O=60 P=70 Q=80 R=90
S=100 T=200 U=300 V=400 W=500 X=600 Y=700 Z=800
We will analyse the famous first line of Poe's classic poem "The Raven":
Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary
There are 7x7 letters.
The first and last words sum to 202x7, of which the first letters contribute 80x7.
The consonants in words starting with a consonant sum to 537x7.
The consonants in words ending with a consonant sum to 485x7, of which 192x7 comes from the odd length
words and 293x7 from the even length words.
The consonants in words 2,4,6,8,10 sum to 177x7.
There are 7 words ending with consonants.
There are 3x7 consonants in words of even length.
Considering words 1,3,5,7,9,11:
There are 3x7 letters.
The even (2,4,6, ) letters in each word total 138x7.
The last letters of each word total 205x7.
The first and last letters of each word total 51x7x7.
Considering the verb "pondered":
The first letter has value 10x7.
The vowels have total value 10x7.
In his original article, Charles wrote:
There are a number of other objections to Panin's methodology
as well, which time does not permit me to go into.
It appears that Charles is just as good at writing numerical text as Poe was.
The sentence has 3x7 words and a total value of 143x7x7.
The first word has value 44x7.
Words ending in vowels have value 230x7.
Words ending in consonants have value 708x7.
The three pronouns total 40x7.
The words which start with a vowel and end with a consonant total 3x7x7x7.
Considering just words 2,4,6,8,, ,20:
There are 6x7 letters.
The 3x7 letters in odd position in the sentence total 53x7x7.
The 3x7 letters in odd position in a word total 54x7x7.
The first letters total 163x7.
The consonants total 408x7. Miracles in Edgar Allen Poe
The following example is an expansion of one first presented on USENET by Charles Culver of Computers for Christ.
For this example, we will use numerical values for English letters assigned using the same pattern as used for Arabic,
Greek and Hebrew.
A=1 B=2 C=3 D=4 E=5 F=6 G=7 H=8 I=9
J=10 K=20 L=30 M=40 N=60 O=60 P=70 Q=80 R=90
S=100 T=200 U=300 V=400 W=500 X=600 Y=700 Z=800
We will analyse the famous first line of Poe's classic poem "The Raven":
Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary
There are 7x7 letters.
The first and last words sum to 202x7, of which the first letters contribute 80x7.
The consonants in words starting with a consonant sum to 537x7.
The consonants in words ending with a consonant sum to 485x7, of which 192x7 comes from the odd length
words and 293x7 from the even length words.
The consonants in words 2,4,6,8,10 sum to 177x7.
There are 7 words ending with consonants.
There are 3x7 consonants in words of even length.
Considering words 1,3,5,7,9,11:
There are 3x7 letters.
The even (2,4,6, ) letters in each word total 138x7.
The last letters of each word total 205x7.
The first and last letters of each word total 51x7x7.
Considering the verb "pondered":
The first letter has value 10x7.
The vowels have total value 10x7.
In his original article, Charles wrote:
There are a number of other objections to Panin's methodology
as well, which time does not permit me to go into.
It appears that Charles is just as good at writing numerical text as Poe was.
The sentence has 3x7 words and a total value of 143x7x7.
The first word has value 44x7.
Words ending in vowels have value 230x7.
Words ending in consonants have value 708x7.
The three pronouns total 40x7.
The words which start with a vowel and end with a consonant total 3x7x7x7.
Considering just words 2,4,6,8,, ,20:
There are 6x7 letters.
The 3x7 letters in odd position in the sentence total 53x7x7.
The 3x7 letters in odd position in a word total 54x7x7.
The first letters total 163x7.
The consonants total 408x7.

Visit these websites here and you will see that the guys work has been refuted and shown to be a fraud. I provided them for you to read in my previous post but you didn't here they are once again.


http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/panin.html
http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/panin_mark.html
http://www.asa3.org/archive/evolution/199807/0225.html
Christianity EtcCan God Do Any And Everything? by bindex(op): 2:38pm On Jan 17, 2009
Christains believe that the  bibleGod can do anything and everything, but is that true? Let's take a look at the bible and see.
Judges 1:19
The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots.
The passage says that God was with the men of Judah in a battle, yet they couldn’t drive out the enemies because the other side was riding upon chariots of iron. Why do Christians believe that their God is all powerful and can do all things for them when the bible clearly shows that he can not even defeat ordinary men because they rode on chariots of iron.   If God is with someone, shouldn’t this person be able to do the miracles that every other God-accompanied individual performs as it is  written all through the bible? Is it that the redactors didn't proof read this part before they included  this very embarrassing part in the bible? What is it about the men with Iron chariots that got made the bibleGod unable to defeat them? I thought he was able to kill over 1 million Ethiopians in one battle, he was able to make the sun "stand still" for more than 24 hours so that his "chosen people" people can go ahead and kill off all their "enemies". Why was he unable to wipe out people who were on iron chariots?
Christianity EtcRe: The Beauty Of Mathematics by bindex(m): 2:21pm On Jan 17, 2009
OLAADEGBU:
This is how Mathematics have solved one of the big controversies among some Bible scholars.  The last twelve verses of the Gospel of Mark are suspected to be disputed or claimed to be added by some later scribes.  This view comes from an excessive reliance on the Alexandrian manuscripts that were promoted by the agnostic Westcott and Hort which is simply not true.  There are several ways to disprove this claim but I want to use the Mathematical solution inherent in the Scriptures itself, which is the design aspect.

The structure of the passage (vs 9-11) is the first segement which is an appearance to Mary in the Garden and the disciples' unbelief; The next section (vs 11-18) describes appearances by Jesus Christ; The final verses (vs 19-20) are the conclusion.

[list]
[li]In Greek, these last twelve verses contain 175 words that is, (7 x 25).
There are 553 letters = 7 x 79.
The vowels of the letters = 294, The consonants of the letters = 259; each exact multiples of seven.
The vocabulary used consists of 98 different words = 7 x7 x 2.
84 of those vocabulary words are found earlier in Mark = 7 x 12
14 are found only here = 7 x 2.
42 are used in the Lord's address = 7 x 6, 56 are not = 7 x 8.
Each one of these conditions is an exact multiple of seven.[/li]
[/list]

Are these accidental or deliberate?  What are the chances of these being the product of random chance?  The odds that this was a result of random chance is one chance in over 40 million.

Dr. Panin has identified 75 such heptadic constraints!  For even half of those, it would take over 1 million supercomputers over 4 million years to enumerate the alternatives. (734 = 5.4 x 1028 tries:assuming 400 million tries/second results in 4.3 x 1012 computer years)
Ivan Pavin and the Gospel of Mark
Perhaps the most impressive work of Ivan Panin concerned the passage Mark 16:9-20 in the Greek New Testament.  Modern scholars are almost unanimous in judging this passage an interpolation, but Panin, in his pamphet "The Last Twelve Verses of Mark" provides a dazzling array of numerical patterns.  In his view, these patterns appeared by design, not by accident, and of course the designer must have been God.  Therefore, the passage is authentic.
As we shall see, this example provides an important lesson about Panin's work.


Accident or Design?

As we have adequately demonstrated elsewhere, any piece of text contains a large number of numerical "patterns" by chance.  All that is needed is the skill to present them in a way that makes them appear extraordinary.  However, some of the patterns presented by Panin were indeed the result of deliberate design: Panin designed them!


Textual analysis or Cheating?

Everyone familiar with the history of the Greek New Testament knows that there are very many editions.  The primary reason for this is that they follow the decisions of editors who have different degrees of access to early manuscripts and different opinions on how discrepancies between them should be resolved.  The result of this subjectivity is that, apart from intentional reprintings, all the editions differ from one another.  Sometimes the differences are small, and sometimes they are large, but almost any difference is harmful to Panin's results.  That is because many of Panin's patterns rely on the exact words, or even the exact letters, that appear in the text.
Panin used the edition of Westcott and Hort as the "basis" for his work, but very often made use of the many alternative readings that those authors suggested.  He was prepared to pick and choose almost arbitrarily from the variations, meaning that in fact he was really working with a huge number of texts, few of them corresponding to any real manuscript.  After this deliberate tweaking of the text to make his patterns work, he then calculated "probabilities" without taking that tweaking into account.  Panin even published his own Greek text, carefully tweaked to provide the patterns that he most liked.

Panin believed that he was reconstructing the original text, but his logic was circular.  By deliberately designing the patterns himself by tweaking the text, he eliminated his own argument that the patterns proved an original design.  The very most he could logically conclude was that his attempt to produce patterns had been successful.

Incidentally, the edition of Westcott and Hort is today regarded as poor scholarship.


Ken Smith's investigation

Ken Smith of Brisbane did an investigation which proves our point forcefully.  Panin's report on the last twelve verse of Mark begins with the observation that there are 175 = 25x7 words in the Greek text.  If that much is wrong, it is obvious that many other things will be wrong also.  So Ken collected a large number of editions and counted the words in that passage.  Here are his findings.
 

Edition
Words
Elzevir's edition of Textus Receptus (1624)
166
Wilson (1864)
165
Alford (1874)
166
Westcott and Hort (1881)
172
Weymouth (1886)
167
Nestle (1898)
168
Souter (1902) for Accepted Version
166
ditto, for Revised Version
168
Nestle (1904)
168
Souter (1910)
168
Huck (1936)
167
Souter (1947)
169
British and Foreign Bible Society (1958)
168
Tasker (1961)
165
Nestle/Aland (1975)
170
Huck/Greeven (1981)
168
More bibliographic details for these editions are available on request.

We see that none of these editions has even the right number of words for Panin's claims.  What chance do they have for Panin's claims concerning letter counts or numerical values?  We conclude that Panin himself designed the patterns he found.



So OLAADEGBU the guy whose work you plagiariazied has been shown to be a fraud who concocted some rubbish designs to prove that the bible is not a work of fiction.
http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/panin_mark.html
Christianity EtcRe: The Beauty Of Mathematics by bindex(m): 2:04pm On Jan 17, 2009
OLAADEGBU:
This is how Mathematics have solved one of the big controversies among some Bible scholars.  The last twelve verses of the Gospel of Mark are suspected to be disputed or claimed to be added by some later scribes.  This view comes from an excessive reliance on the Alexandrian manuscripts that were promoted by the agnostic Westcott and Hort which is simply not true.  There are several ways to disprove this claim but I want to use the Mathematical solution inherent in the Scriptures itself, which is the design aspect.

The structure of the passage (vs 9-11) is the first segement which is an appearance to Mary in the Garden and the disciples' unbelief; The next section (vs 11-18) describes appearances by Jesus Christ; The final verses (vs 19-20) are the conclusion.

[list]
[li]In Greek, these last twelve verses contain 175 words that is, (7 x 25).
There are 553 letters = 7 x 79.
The vowels of the letters = 294, The consonants of the letters = 259; each exact multiples of seven.
The vocabulary used consists of 98 different words = 7 x7 x 2.
84 of those vocabulary words are found earlier in Mark = 7 x 12
14 are found only here = 7 x 2.
42 are used in the Lord's address = 7 x 6, 56 are not = 7 x 8.
Each one of these conditions is an exact multiple of seven.[/li]
[/list]

Are these accidental or deliberate?  What are the chances of these being the product of random chance?  The odds that this was a result of random chance is one chance in over 40 million.

Dr. Panin has identified 75 such heptadic constraints!  For even half of those, it would take over 1 million supercomputers over 4 million years to enumerate the alternatives. (734 = 5.4 x 1028 tries:assuming 400 million tries/second results in 4.3 x 1012 computer years)
75 heptadic constraints, eh?

Let me guess, this is based on an English version of the bible?  What about all the other languages the bible had been translated into on its way to the English version?  Let me guess, the "perfection" goes away when we do that?

Who  cares how many coincidental occurrences this person can create?  There are an infinite number of non-heptadic constraints that could be found.  Does that disprove its perfection?  If the bible was perfect, why aren't there 76 heptadic constraints, or better yet 77?  After all, 77 is divisible by the "perfect" number 7.

What about a different gospel?  I'll be willing to bet I could find more heptadic constraints in this weeks TV guide or some other book than in his "inspired" book.  This is absolutely unconvincing to anyone who is not already convinced.  It's laughable that this type of thing is considered evidence for divine inspiration.

And that last bit is so ridiculous.  Throwing big numbers at the reader that are arbitrarily arrived upon that represent no cogent concept or basis of comparison for evaluating the truth of the previous hogwash.

Ivan Panin is dull. These "patterns" were often created by him and chosen from different versions of the same text. Not to mention these patterns can be found in other text.

http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/panin.html
http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/panin_mark.html
http://www.asa3.org/archive/evolution/199807/0225.htm

All of this writings are just his opinion, rhetoric, and conjecture.
Christianity EtcRe: Bid To Ban GOD From Obama's Inauguration oath swear-in by bindex(m): 1:46pm On Jan 17, 2009
**osisi:
The money says In God we trust.
We all say God bless America
National songs like America the beautiful says God bless America
The founding fathers said God bless America
Those Atheists can shut up their stinking mouths grin
The American founding fathers were mostly deist, they don't believe in God they way you do. America has never been a Godly nation, they leaders only invoke God to keep the masses in line.
jamace:
What of in Naija? Religious but rotten human beings everywhere.Tufiakwa. Hissssss angry sad
Nigerians are the most religious set of people I have ever meet, yet they are worst set of people I have personally ever come across. What a shame.
Christianity EtcRe: From Where Did Cain's Bride And Her Family Originate? by bindex(m): 2:11am On Jan 17, 2009
Image123:
@chrisbenogor
so you do not believe that Noah's ark existed,too bad.I wouldn't like to derail the thread but can you tell me why you do not believe?
@bindex
have dismissed some scientists conclusions as fairy tale because those conclusions lack evidence.they're mere probabilities and 'educated' guesses.Why should scientists say that a particular chinese dynasty existed at a date far before the chinese believed.yes,they excavated and discovered but they don't know for sure who lived there then.why then conclude assertively.mr,sleep I have to. I'll respond later
Sleep tight man

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