₦airaland Forum

Peterrio:
I would seriously prefer we take this conversation to WhatsApp where we can use voice notes instead of losing valuable valid argument points�

The topic is too interesting

Yeah, if Nairaland has a voice note feature, this discussion might have ended at page 8.
Peterrio, did you read the thread from 1 - 16?

shadeyinka:
Time is the measure of interval between two or more physical events.

Can you expantiate please?

AkinwaleJJ:
Hmmm,
It is not easy to preach God's word and drive it home deep down the hearts of people, because God's thought is higher than our thoughts! Isai 55:8-9

True.

For a certainty Jesus really really got what it takes to equip his disciples with superb knowledge and unbeatable wisdom before he could say "come, be my follower and i will make you fishers of men" Matt 4:19

You are a witness sir, aren't you?
You sound much like Maximus69, the Antichrist spam bot slayed him for the testimony he held.

shadeyinka:
Several!
The book Revelation is a classic case. Hasn't God forthtold what will happen.
The Antichrist
The Beast
The False Prophet
The Mark of the Beast
etc.

If we will have to talk about this, we will have to quake into a lot of deep things. However, you still are wrong with your misconceptions.

These these has been FORTHTOLD, God must be responsible for causing it to come to pass.

You didn't pay attention to so many things.

The account of David, Saul and Keilah: was God Forthtelling or Foretelling what will happen if David stayed at Keliah?

What will happen depends on God.

God didn't forsee it but He prepared a LAMB slain from the foundation of the world.

Do a brief research on the word "World".

Oh, God didn't know that they would fall hence He placed in the Garden the Tree that could result in their DEATH!?

The account of the Garden of Eden was far more than eating a forbidden fruit and merrying with disobedience.

It also seems that the omniscient God wasn't around when the serpent was tempting Eve

The Devil principally tempted two persons
1. The First Adam (although it was indirect)
2. The Second Adam (Jesus Christ)
Both were necessary, the first disappointed, the second overcame! God knew and He permitted it (for a very big cause) in both cases.

It is not sentimental. My God created time and hence is the God of time just as He created space and thus the God of space!
It is not sentimental: the created cannot be greater than the Creator!

You should define " Time " from;
1. Man's Standpoint
2. God's Standpoint

It simply mean that God is omnipresent in time and space!

Subconsciously, you don't want to go further any longer, no problem.
Your belief or disbelief in the existence of an account of the future has little to zero salvation value, so I won't press further, I do hope that you receive a more complete revelation than the one I have on this matter.
It (this discussion and its essence) is a tool that was meant to aid in deep quaking of truths that have been a mystery for long.
It is well sir Shadeyinka, I rest my case.

Ken4Christ:
You have no redemption. It's like you are destined for destruction. So, your end is already known. Are you happy with this?

Depends on who said or proclaimed such.

MuttleyLaff:
My dear Sir, with the utmost respect, you are just obfuscating a very simple, penny plain explanation, but its all good, its alright, as I have a few easy, direct, simple, innocent, harmless, straightforward questions to ask you

Watch this Blabbermouth, for the sake of this discussion, imagine you had supernatural abilities, that makes it possible for you to project yourself, outwards from your body into a different place and time. You are still the same with the projection, lets call it "son" and call you the "father".

1/ Whose bidding, respectfully, do you think "son" will be doing?
2/ Is "son" not you, the "father"?
3/ Is "son" not distinct from you, the "father"?
4/ Is "son" and you the "father" not the same person known as Blabbermouth?
5/ Does "son" not see you the "father" Blabbermouth, do good things?
6/ Does "son" not have the same power as you, the "father" Blabbermouth?
7/ Did "son" not come from you, the "father" Blabbermouth?
8/ Is "son" not equal to the "father" Blabbermouth, yet not clinging to that status, so to fulfil all righteousness in that way, hmm?
9/ Would "son," being you the "father" Blabbermouth, have the ability and power to see into humans' heart, know their thoughts, tell what they're thinking, or what they desire, just like you the "father" Blabbermouth have that ability to do, hmm? In other words, similar from 1 Samuel 9:19 and 1 Samuel 10:19&26.
10/ Who really, in this scenario, is the "son"?

I look forward to you addressing the questions directly and/or head-on

Trust me sir Muttley, you won't want to do this. I watched the video some minutes ago, it doesn't answer my question.

Ken4Christ:
God does not only knows the future, he even knows you before you were born. He also gave man the ability to see the future though visions.

God knew me? As what? A prophet? A man that will end up in hell? A man that will get saved through christ? If God knew me before I was born, what did God know me as?

The account of creation was written by Moses who was not even there. And science cannot fault the order of creation.

Do you know why Moses could write the account of creation even if he was not there? Because the account existed ( it happened or has happened)!
Do you know why we can give an account of what is happening right now? Because such account is being created instantaneously as we live.
How about the future? Does an account of what WILL HAPPEN (take note of the capitalized.. I didn't say "What MAY HAPPEN", I asked "What WILL HAPPEN) exist?

He foretold the suffering of the children of Abraham when he hasn't even gotten a child. And it came to pass just the way he said it when they were in Egypt for about 400 years.

Genesis 15:13-14
13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

That wasn't God using foreknowledge, that was God making known to Abraham what he has declared! It was by God's orchestration that Israel became enslaved to Egypt.

Even the birth of Jesus was foretold thousands of years before he was born;

1. His virgin birth was foretold
2. His lineage was foretold.
3. The very town he was to be born was foretold.
4. His betrayal was foretold, even the exact amount he was to be betrayed with was foretold.
5. The exact year he would die was foretold.
6. The humiliation he was to suffer was foretold.
There are over one hundred specific prophecies fulfilled in Christ.

Salvation was not foreknown, salvation was declared by God through Christ! None of the prophecies about Christ were from mere foreknowledge, it was preceeded by God's orchestration.

The Bible is the only book that correctly predicted the emergence of successive government that has dominated the earth. And there is only one government remaining which is the one the anti Christ will rule for seven years.

Spot on! However, the bible wasn't predicting, it was stating what God has permitted to happen in time.

His seat of power will be Rome and ten European States will give him power. Details are contained in the book of Daniel and Revelation. World events are already tilting towards the fulfillment.

Spot on!

Concerning the eternal destiny of men, God does not decide where you will end up. Your decision does. He knows where you will end if you take the wrong decision and he knows where you will end if you make the right decision.

I see you use the subjective word "IF", you are not wrong sir.

So, you also have a choice to determine your destiny. And it revolves around what you do with the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

Spot on!

MuttleyLaff:
I have never once said you spoke of your own that God (The Highest force) said "I will harden Pharaoh[/I]". All I asked you was to explain in no uncertain terms, how God (The Highest force) hardened Pharaoh's heart, thats all simply, lmso.

If you really know how God harden Pharaoh's heart, if you really do understand well enough how God hardened Pharaoh's heart, then you will have no problem breaking it down in to simple, easy to digest information and it wouldn't at all be an yeye question

I will gladly tell you, the way and manner how God Harden Pharaoh's heart, only on the one condition of, after you've first told your version

"[i]so shall My word be, whatever shall proceed out of My mouth,
it shall by no means turn back, until all the things which I willed shall have been accomplished;
and I will make thy ways prosperous, and will effect My commands.
OR
So also will be the word that I speak
--it will not fail to do what I plan for it; it will do everything I send it to do"
- Isaiah 55:11
Blabbermouth, word up, fyi, just merely speaking itself and in itself, is an act of creation, as you are creating and forming distinct meaningful elements of speech, lmso, expressing your thoughts and feelings by/with articulate sounds. So the Godhead said, Let there be ... (i.e. Let there exist ...) and, there be (i.e. there exist) and so we have history and the opportunity for this discussion
No one is twisting God's plain words, so stop being needlessly paranoid

When the going gets tough y'all try to form bible students. How does Isaiah 55:11 explain how God's spoken words created a physical universe? What's with the "your speaking is an act of creation" bullocks? Hey Muttleylaff, I just said "let there be a big, bright, sun-like light in my room", while i type, I'm still waiting for it to come into existence.
You can try again sir, how did God's mere spoken words created a physical universe?

"And from then Yeshua began to inform His disciples that he was prepared to go to Jerusalem
and He would suffer many things from the Elders and from the Chief Priests and the Scribes
and He would be murdered, and the third day He would rise."
- Matthew 16:21
Your wish is my command:
1. What was Yeshua's will concerning the cup He was to take?
Answer>>>
Yeshua's will concerning the unsavoury cup was hedging against drinking it

2. What was God's will concerning the cup He was to take?
Answer>>>
God's will was that the cup be drank

3. Whose will was done, God's will or Yeshua's will?
Answer>>>
It is the former's will that was done.

Where is Yeshua's absolute free will here? No, answer me, was Yeshua's will (in this case) free or not?
Ps: By my foreknowledge (Lolzzzz), I expect you to give [b]will and freewill[b] a new definition rather than accept that everyone's will is not absolutely free.

Why would I have any need to introduce trinity, hmm, lmso? God is trinity and more. God in infinity.

If God Almighty (The Father) was God 1 and Jesus(The same God that was said to come to earth as a man) was God 2 (as claimed or supposed by trinity), then they ought to have the same will! God and his HolySpirit have the same will (100%) don't they?
God 1 wants buns but can't take ice-cream, however God 2 wants ice-cream but can't take buns. Somehow both Gods are one, equal and the same? Like I said in some other thread "the doctrine of trinity needs to be rechecked and put aright".

shadeyinka:
If Gods forthtelling brought about SIN and EVIL, then such isn't my God. For my God is JUST, he wouldn't punish me in HELL for what he TOLD ME TO DO.

Perhaps you can point out to where I said or insinuated that God's forthtelling brought SIN and EVIL. I said God HAS NOT/DID NOT DECLARE EVERYTHING - thus, everything outside what God has declared or permitted to happen is a nonexistent account.
1. The fall of Lucifer (which was the root of all these SIN and EVIL) was a nonexistent account - God didn't declare it and it wasn't foreseen (as it doesn't exist). It only came into existence the exact moment Lucifer said in his heart - "I will.....". Lucifer declared it, not God!
2. God did not place A&E in the garden of Eden foreknowing that they would fall. A father does not place a huge sum of money in the room of his son that has a track record of unrepentant stealing, if he does, why beat him severely after the inevitable happened? Why curse him even when you knew his weakness. God placed Adam in Eden because he TRUSTED THEM! It was this same reason why God "regretted (nachaam) ... more like, He was DISAPPOINTED"!

If time is greater than your God, so be it!
My God created time and He is Omnipresent both in TIME and SPACE.

This is a sentimental statement, I will skip.

I will answer just one of your twisted miscomprehensions.

Blabbermouth:
2. This is a new set entirely, are you saying WHAT I WILL DO is not seen by God?

I did not say that.
I meant that God sees what YOU HAVE DONE from the past!
He does not Judge you by what you will do (Until you have done it)!

Bridge what you said now with the part of my message you quoted for response. How does it relate? How does it negate the valid point I raised?

shadeyinka:
@Blabbermouth
In simple English. It is YOUR choices and ACTIONS that is seen by God NOT what you WILL do? Your choices and actions are WITHIN your control.

1. CHOICES, ACTIOINS and WHAT I WILL DO are not independent of each other, are they?
2. This is a new set entirely, are you saying WHAT I WILL DO is not seen by God?

If David had stayed in Keliah (which was within David's power to do), Saul would have come down against him and the Keliahnites would have betrayed him.

God is not a man bro. He saw the changes in the eternal past didn't he?

God was asked Questions:
1. Will Saul come down?
God should have said: I don't know the future, Saul is MOST LIKELY coming down.
But that wasn't His answer: God said with affirmation "Saul will come down"!

hahahahahahaha... "Hey David from the eternal past I saw you ask me if Saul will come. You see, he won't come because I will lie to you that he will come so that you will take to your heels and leave keilah. That way, things will go just as I have seen"

2. Will the Keliahnites betray me?
God should have said: I don't know the future, Saul is MOST LIKELY coming down.
But that wasn't His answer: God said with affirmation "Saul will come down"!

hahahahahahahaha... "David, you will need to run from keilah for things to go just as i've seen from the eternal past. I will do the needful from my side, you will do the needful from yours."
Is that the kind of person the LORD God is?

If God didn't know the future, those responses would have been guesswork. If it was a forthtelling, then it would have been a lie.

Don't squeeze sour juices from the lemon.
By forthtelling - God's forthtelling was altered (or say, 'failed')
By foretelling - God lied to David to make things go as foreseen
Did I not tell you that none of it was involved in that scenario? In a bid to push foretelling of the future for God, you ended up painting him as a LIAR.

Check out the @red
It seems you are bent on forcing me to say the future already exists!
That has been the bone of your misconception

If it can be foreseen, then an account of it exists.

Amatarasha:
who is ATHEIST ? When am busy calling jehovah ? U are dull my friend
Am outta here

It's "I'm" not "Am".
At least learn something while you mock Jesus.

SisterFire:
But shE mentioned all gods no one knew? Do you really went to school? I was afraid of her because U ClaiM she is a demon but I see truth in what she says

Always remember to double check who you quote before you click the SUBMIT button.

Amatarasha:
Ok I like d style of u telling me to leave ,
U reduced yourself to d lowest form ,to d level of SHE goat ,see what u type,I have never been so bored by little naive soul
CONGRATS I WILL LEAVE ,NOW I KNOW U CAN CAST DEMON AWAY WITH NAIVETY
MTCHEW GODDESS ÀMAT U HAVE SUFFERED

Woman, you talk too much and end up not saying anything meaningful. If you want to be an Atheist, at least have sense na.

shadeyinka:
...

Let me quote this first...

"Yes, God saw every change David will make including consulting Him. The responsibility of anything God saw was David's: whatever David DID was what God saw!"- Shadeyinka

Now, let's see

1. According to you, it was by foreknowledge God said to David "He(I.e Saul) WILL come"... Also, it was by foreknowledge God said of Keilah " They (Keilah) WILL surrender you ".
(I say this as a man)... Do you realize what just happened? IF it was by foreknowledge, God LIED to David!
MY RESPONSE:
If the future was cast in stone, God would have lied. But emphatically I have said it times without number on this thread: The future isn't cast in stone.

The future isn't cast in stones because it is subjected to CHANGES! However, you yourself claimed this...

"Yes, God saw every change David will make including consulting Him. The responsibility of anything God saw was David's: whatever David DID was what God saw!"- Shadeyinka

That is to say from the eternal past and in God's foreseeing abilities, even the CHANGES have been calculated and thus, God has a CONSTANT AND ABSOLUTE ACCOUNT OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN (This one is constant and not subjected to changes, why? Because God saw every single changes just as you've claimed).
After every change and move, God in the eternal past foresaw this "Saul planned to come to come to keilah and will turn back because he will hear the news that David had already left keilah. In summary, He (Saul) WILL NOT come... That was the constant account that was to happen (every single change has been calculated). God said something 100% opposite to what he saw, and it was a LIE.(I speak as a man)
Give up bro, either God can lie or that wasn't foreknowledge. Which one will you pick, the fire or the hot frying pan?

2. The belief in an existent future will automatically mean God himself has a future. You dabbled with English, threw unrelated scriptures and wrote in bolded " My dear, God does not have a future only man does ".
However, it was obvious that God's ordeal with Moses was an account that was YET TO HAPPEN at the time of Abraham. Thus, His ordeals with Moses was a Future account (I.e. what will happen in time) at the time of Abraham. Such ordeal (provided a future exist) is nothing else (no matter how you try to sugar coat it) but God's own future.[/i]
MY RESPONSE:
You are still locked into your EXISTENT FUTURE misconception. The future is not FIXED. I do NOT believe in a fixed future!

God is the same YESTERDAY, TODAY and FOREVER. How then can He have a Future.
Heb 13:8:
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."

Your error and misconception sir!

The Scriptures will never go out of its tune to help you. How does Christ being the same yesterday, today and forever... negate the fact that God's account/ordeal with Moses was a future (What WILL happen) event as at the time of Abraham? Uhn, how sir, how?
It is what it is bro, things don't just vanish because you wish them to. The same plate you dish out to God's creature to claim they all have a future that can be foreseen, that same plate works well logically, scripturally, reasonably to also imply that God himself has a future. The casting in stones or not casting in stones of the future also does nothing to negate that fact.
You can choose to skip this part when you leave a reply, the message has been passed and you will have to throw out reasoning, logic and Scriptures if you want to claim something contrary to that.

@Haylel
3. You haven't answered this- At what point did/does God foreknow the future of everything?

From the eternal past!

Rev 13:8:
"And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
Rom 8:29-30:
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

God foreknows the future from the eternal past? You don't have that far-sight to see the consequences of this statement, do you? If I should pull this string again, I know you still won't admit to certain facts and then use English to find a soft landing for yourself.
PS: If you have given me strong facts (from Scriptures, Reasoning or logic) to believe that a future actually exist, I would have admitted to being incomplete with my understanding or if ego will take over, I would have concurred codedly, give a " I will go dig deeper " kind of remark and drop no more comment.
I do not expect you to admit 100% for now, (to be honest, there is one tiny piece i am still looking for) but as time goes on, the truth will dawn on you.

Is God Omnipresent?
How is it possible?

Omnipresent? He can be in all place or say be everywhere? Yes.
Is this perception of omnipresence what you are talking about?
cc: kkins25

shadeyinka:
Your question had been answered by the scriptures
Summary:
Those who Didn't hear of the Gospel of salvation are judged by their conscience.

Rom 2:11-16:
"For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law to themselves: Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; ) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

In a simple language:
1. God will judge those who are without the law of God by their conscience
2. Will they be in Heaven or Hell?
No body knows. The bible is silent on the nature of God's judgement based on their conscience.
Any explanation different from this is human speculation
BUT
a. God is JUST: he would judge everyone proportionatly according to what they have done in the flesh.
b. Just as Paradise is NOT a blanket reward of the Redeemed, Hell is not a blanket judgement of the Lost souls
3. The standard of God is sure: anyone whose name is not found in the book of life is thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15:
"And whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

God cannot be caged or bound by any rule.
Rom 9:15-16:
"For he said to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy."

Thanks Sir.
PS: Your attention is needed on the other thread, we need to hit a handful of nails on the coffin box.

I still need Shadeyinka's explanation for;
1/why God LIED to David... (Remember, God does not tell lies!)
2/ who ordained God's future
3/ at what point in time does God foreknow the future of everything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The idea of future comes sweet in the box-to-box frame. However, if we are to stretch farther and go deeper, it crumbles easily like a pack of cards.

MuttleyLaff:
"“The rich man shouted,
‘Father Abraham, have some pity!
Send Lazarus over here to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue.
I am in anguish in these flames.’"
- Luke 16:24

God, without a point and or without any particular moment in time foreknow the future of everything

This is unscriptural, unreasonable and illogical. There was no point, no time, no dispensation, no eternal past, nothing at all when God knows the future? You can do better please.

I have taken the liberty to answer your question, now here's where you reciprocate and answer my question, which is:
How did/does the rich man, in Luke 16:24 seen above, without any physical sensory organ and/or without any direct connecting interaction with a physical body know that he needs to be refreshed and cooled down with water?

1. That was a parable
2. The answer is subjected to the details the narrator of the parable gave;
I.e.In this case, the rich man most likely had a form (it could be a physical body or something else) , that form is able (just like a typical physical body) to feel.
How did he recognize Lazarus?
How did he recognize Abraham?

Lifepodcastng:
...

Unquote your post please, I will like to ask you some questions.

Haylel:
"Yes, God saw every change David will make including consulting Him. The responsibility of anything God saw was David's: whatever David DID was what God saw!"- Shadeyinka

1. According to you, it was by foreknowledge God said to David "He(I.e Saul) WILL come"... Also, it was by foreknowledge God said of Keilah " They (Keilah) WILL surrender you ".
(I say this as a man)... Do you realize what just happened? IF it was by foreknowledge, God LIED to David!
What God saw from the eternal past was not " Saul coming to Keilah" but "Saul halting his plan to come when he heard the news that David has escaped". However, when David asked God if Saul WILL come, God said something not in the account of His foreknowledge.
You were forewarned not to push God's reply to David as from His foreknowing ability. Now, your belief in foreknowledge has made God a Liar

2. The belief in an existent future will automatically mean God himself has a future. You dabbled with English, threw unrelated scriptures and wrote in bolded " My dear, God does not have a future only man does ".
However, it was obvious that God's ordeal with Moses was an account that was YET TO HAPPEN at the time of Abraham. Thus, His ordeals with Moses was a Future account (I.e. what will happen in time) at the time of Abraham. Such ordeal (provided a future exist) is nothing else (no matter how you try to sugar coat it) but God's own future.
Now, if the Most High himself has a future;
I. Did he foreknow (without ordaining it) his future or did he by His own will ordain his future?
(Another brotherly advice: You will be quick to chose option 2 since it kind of secure God's control... However, you will have no choice than to end up admitting that God writing his own script will indirectly and simultaneously cause the script of the other creature to be his doing)

3. You haven't answered this- At what point did/does God foreknow the future of everything?

Shadeyinka sir, what say ye?

Offpoint1:
The Christians believe no one will make heaven without Jesus... Their believe I can say is based on John 14:6
" Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me"
.......
I want to ask this question and I need highly spiritual or well knowledge Christians to answer.

During Jesus time on earth, I believe He didn't Journey through the entire earth to preach, nor do the apostles and at that time I believe there were humans who don't even know His existence as at that time due to geographical location.

Where are those people now or where will they be... Heaven or Hell?

Missionaries first landed in Nigeria in the 15th century and this was thousands of years after Jesus existence. Thousands of our ancestors lived and died before the arrival of missionary without the knowledge of Jesus existence.

Where are they now or where will they be... Heaven or Hell?

If your answer is Hell...
If they are in hell because they don't know Jesus, will that still make God JUST in his judgment?

If your answer is heaven...
Explain John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me"
Or explain what Christians mean by "Nobody will make heaven without Jesus"

Righteousness89 I once asked you this questions and for reasons known to you... You ignored.
Your contribution is needed here.


I only focus my questions on those who lived since the birth of Jesus, because if I should take us back to B.C it'll be a long thread.

Cc: Lalasticlala
OAM4J

So far, no one has given you a satisfactory answer and some guys are even derailing the thread without knowing it.
I have buddies here that may have an answer to your question.
MuttleyLaff, Janosky and Shadeyinka.

CrescentMoon:
You're answering yourself and you said that will be my answer.

It was intended as an illustration. I don't want derail the thread.

CrescentMoon:
So those that died before God called Abraham will be reincarnated so that they can hear the gospel?

This is a discussion for another day. In this case, I used it to explain why God doesn't just use brute force and cover it up with "hahahahahahaha, my name is God".

CrescentMoon:
Judges and suspects are both humans without supernatural ability to know who is at fault. But God created Satan and should be able to convict him right away.

The problem is not with God or his supernatural powers, it's actually with the person or the specie being judged.
Imagine God throwing every being that lived before Christ into the eternal, I meant the ones that were not Israelite and never heard about God or heard about Jesus. Imagine I were part of them, what do you think I will say? If I ask you if God was right throwing people into hell because they never heard about him (which obviously, isn't their fault), what will you say? I believe you will say "Yes". However if I ask you how he was right, you will say something as humanly dumb as "because God is a good God".
Read this....

Isaiah 55

"My ways are not your ways, so are my thoughts not your thoughts. As the heaven is far above the earth, so is my ways and my thoughts far above yours" -God himself!

So trying to darken counsel with words is very much unwise.

I created a robot and made it to know what "beautiful and ugly" is. Then I said, hey look, this is beautiful!... The robot however said, no its not. I should ask the robot, who enlightened you and gave you the revelation of "Beautiful and Ugliness"..

Over and over and over and over and over again, God many times had taken his time to make Men (and even some angels!) see of a truth that what he did was Just, that what he did was Right, that what he did was spurned from love. And yes! Men after being reenlightened had no choice but to concur and worship.

This God is actually not tasked with the responsibility of proving himself, but many times you see, he does so that all be fulfilled.

Modified:

Listen to this parable

A man (let's call him a prophet) had the privilege to see God shower his wrath on a city. The city had done so so so great evil in the sight of God and after many many warnings, God decided to treat their Bleep up. He wiped out every man and woman in the city. Howbeit, he didn't stop there, his wrath also descended on the infants in the city, he wiped them all for good.

The prophet understood why God wiped the city, he agreed with God cleaning up the adult male as well as the adult female. However he was puzzled, why did God have to descend his wrath on the innocent infant kids and take their life? He kept pondering and pondering and decided to ask God himself. He made his petition to know why, as to him, killing innocent infants was unjust. "Thou art a just God, why did you then wipe the innocent kids along with their evil parents?"-He cried.

At night, the prophet laid on his bed to sleep but it was as if the winds have been stopped. After trying to cope for some time, he concluded that he will just go and sleep outside. He took his mat outside, laid it and slept on it peacefully. During that sweet sleep, he felt a sharp sting on the nape of his neck. With the speed of lightening, he crushed the ant and continued sleeping. Before he could drift back into his sweet dream, two more ants gave him a very sharp sting. He killed them likewise. This time the sleep was no longer enticing and he was more concerned about the ants. Before he could say Jack, he felt 3 more stings. Now very alert, he stood from his mat and tried to see the bastards disturbing his sleep. He realized that there was a small colony of soldier ants just under his mat. Immediately, he used his feet and a broom to kill those tiny creatures. Then he laid his mat on a new position (of course, he did confirm that there are no more ants) and ventured to continue his sleep. Then God asked him - "Just 6 ants bite you, how many did you kill? He said, I killed them all. God said - 94 ants did you no harm yet you killed them along with the guilty 6, justify yourself. Then the prophet said - all the ants are of the same specie. If I do not kill the remaining 94, it is natural that they bite me and never let me sleep. So knowing that they are of the same intent, I killed them all" .... Immediately, the prophet then realized why God asked him the question. It was the exact question he asked God, and the Lord hath made he himself to answer his question. Then he concluded - truly, thou art a just God!

Do you get the essence now?
God is not a bully Judge. You know, that kind of "I am right because my name is God. If you oppose me, I will punish you also"... No, no, no. Whenever God is to Judge, even the suspect will not have a single point against God's judgement. That is exactly why He is a just Judge.

MuttleyLaff:
Blabbermouth, dont fret, everyone will have their fair hearing in court and of course, in front of an Incorruptible Judge. The devils knows this, also believe and tremble.

Yeah. I was trying to tell Sermwell that God wouldn't just throw Satan straight up into an everlasting hell without a fair hearing in court. Is that not why there is a judgement day? But he seems to think God should just do that straight up because , well, because the humans are suffering and somehow the devil is the cause for all their problems.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sermwell, I know you may want to ask why God didn't just set the Judgement day the same day (or the next day) Satan caused trouble. Unfortunately, the Judgement day cannot /could not have taken place until Christ must have come and done every thing he has been sent to do.
This is the reason why after the death of Christ, the apostles and the early Christians thought Jesus will return in their time and this current world will end with Satan being delivered up into everlasting torment. Before Christ died, No one, I repeat, No one expected the world to end and Satan be delivered up for judgement!
WHY SHOULD GOD SACRIFICE HIS OWN SON WHEN HE CAN SIMPLY DESTROY SATAN?
I don't really want to go very deep but let me also pen this down- Christ's death was not only for humans. The angels also needed it;
1. Through the overcoming of Christ, God was Justified before the angels. (Romans 3:4)... If Christ had not overcome, the angels, humans and the likes will not see God's judgement as just. However, given that Jesus (a man) has overcome, no tongue will be able to gainsay on that day when he is found wanting.
2. Through the death of Christ, the angels (and humans) found MERCY before God. (Rev 5:.. If he wasn't sacrificed, everything would have returned to square one as no one will be saved!
What shall we now say, God wasted his time creating man and angels in the first place?
What shall we now say, God should kill Satan (without Christ, y'all will go down with him) and end everything?
God forbid!

obamartins:
Replied all mails and we a ravving to go.

I sent you one sir, please reply.

.

I'm back.
Only God knows how many of us them give ban yesterday. Should this happen again, and then again, what happened in 1914 will repeat itself.

JenniferAkpamu:
So proving that God exists will prove what exactly? Any one who partakes in this test will be discrediting God.

Sweetie, forget it.

sonmvayina:
What are you on about?.. Who shut it up?.. This is the first time I am hearing it.. They were constantly at war with the Romans.. So.. The temple was still standing, it was only distroyed around 70 ce..

I never mentioned temple, I said "prophethood"... Go ask your Jewish friends why prophecy suddenly stopped at Malachi's Death, if the Messiah had not come already, Israel will have a prophet through which God speaks to them till today!

The real copy-cat messiah will build the 3rd temple and resume the daily sacrifice to God..

Don't get it twisted;
1. He won't actually be the one building the temple.
2. That same person you speak of will be the one desecrate that rebuilded temple (I speak of the " abomination of desolation)

Abeg study well.

Go ask your Jewish friends why they lost the order of prophethood since C.E.

shadeyinka:
What is the meaning of affirmation?
Can NO be an affirmation to something!?

YES or NO cannot answer these;
1. At what point infact, does God foreknow a being's future?
4. If you answer affirmative to the question above, Did or Did not God see the changes David will make in the future concerning staying in/leaving Keilah?

My issue with you is that you are locked in your misconceptions even concerning things you have heard me say. Check your quote below
How many times do I have to tell you that God sees that which you DID and the choices you MADE with your available options in your PRESENT time!
In simple English: it is what you DID (in your present tense) that God saw
(from the eternal past) and NOT what you WILL DO in future! Whatever you DID was what God saw![/quote]Maybe you didn't realize that from the eternal past, 1. What I have done 2. What I am doing now 3. What I will do.... Are all YET TO BE DONE during the eternal past.