₦airaland Forum

DappaD:
Wrt the other comparisons you made, it was made clear from context that it was the angel of Jehovah who spoke to humans or carried other assignments.

In the passover massacre, it was God who spoke but an angel of God carried out the action.
Who took the credit? God!

Since Jesus isn't the true God Jehovah, but rather His subordinate(John 14:28)—then the long awaited fulfillment of the Genesis 3:15 prophecy must be carried out completely by Jesus Christ as he will not step aside for a lower angel to bind Satan into an abyss since it's clear that Jesus possesses that much authority to hold the keys of death and Hades(Rev 1:18) and is the only person recognized by the demons who will bind them in an abyss(Luke 8:30-31)

Dappa, you seriously need to re-read the message I sent the last time.
Did God step aside for a lower angel when he was to meet Moses?
Did God step aside for a lower angel when He was delivering Israel from Assyria?
Did Hitler step aside for a lower soldier when he was massacring the Jews?
Did Abacha step aside for any lower soldier?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Then you said - *it's clear that Jesus possessed that much authority*
Beloved, in whose authority did the destroyer slay the first born of Egypt?

Beloved, in whose authority did an Angel slay 185,000 humans for Israel to be delivered?

Haven't you read or has it not been written - Everything on earth and in heaven (which includes angels) has been subjected to him, subjected to his authority.

In whose authority then shall an angel bind the devil?

And also there's nothing from context that suggests that another angel was assigned that task.

Don't play the "context" game please.
There's nothing from context that suggests that Christ rolled up his sleeves and did the work himself.

There's nothing from context that suggests that the Angel was no other person than Angel Michael

There was nothing from context that showed that it was NOT an angel of the Lord that multiplied the seeds of Esau.

Take it to heart sir, Your name is a seal!

I know it may be much to grasp but maybe take it one at a time. But if you still do not agree, then there is no problem and I've done the best I can to help.

I'm engaging you with free-mindedness for I am free to UNLearn and RELearn, nevertheless, your mind in its pure state bears witness that what I said was true.

haddeylium:
If we're to have a discussion...You should answer my questions when I do the same with yours...

You haven't given a succinct answer to my question. If you had, I would have answered your questions immediately.

If we're to further, we must know what hebrew word mal·ʼakhʹ translated in English as Angel means.
(We can't ignore this part)

mal·ʼakhʹ(Angel) = Son of God/Messengers

Okay.

These spirit creatures are called 'Son of God' (Angel) as a virtue of being created by God ( ps 36:9)
Jesus is “the beginning of the creation by God.”—Revelation 3:14.
Through Jesus, others are created too (Colossians 1:​13-​17)

Okay.

Bible calls the angels “sons of the true God.” (Job 1:6)
Bible often called Jesus “the Son of God.” (John 1:49)

Okay.

If Jesus as a spirit creature is the Son of God, what does that makes him?

No preconceived notion please. You are yet to BOLDLY say what kind of being Christ Jesus is in heaven.

Jesus being the only "begotten son of God" held exalted position over others angels as Jehovah's Archangel (1 The )

This was preconceived. I will skip.

Not only that, He served as God's word (John 1:1, proverb 8:

Okay.

DappaD put it clearly. You might want a Witness in your area for further enlightenment

I will so much appreciate a BOLD and TRANSPARENT ANSWER

Haddeylium: Christ Jesus in heaven (after resurrection of course) is an angelic creature just like Angel Gabriel.
1. Is this what your stance/answer?
2. The scriptures you gave above is for before-human of Christ- the scope of this mini discussion does not stretch to that angle.
If you say Christ Jesus in heaven (AFTER Ressurection) is an angelic creature just like angel Gabriel, give a scripture that connotes such.

PS: In all fairness, the scriptures you gave above doesn't give an idea of post ressurection state of being of Christ Jesus.
All you were trying to prove there was that Jesus was (maybe) angel Michael before he became human.

DappaD:
Were was the highlighted suggested in my post though?

In your post, you said it is likely the angel in Rev 20:1 is Christ Jesus.

In my response to you, I exposed how another person/being can do something in the name of a being and such merit or credit is given to the bearer of the name, not the literal doer.
Thus, it is not sufficient to say an angel is Christ because He did something in the name of Christ.

DappaD:
OK.
But I thought you rejected the doctrine of trinity? I don't think anything in my post suggests I'm talking about Jesus being God.

That's the mystery of "In the name of..."

We said Abacha, Gadaffi and likes murdered a lot of people during their tenure, did they literally go about killing those people? No!

The killings were done in their name, so we are right to say - Adolf Hitler killed a lot of people during his terror era.

It is not a God-benefit only!

Oh dear, we will dabble into error and a lot of misdoctrinations if we mistake the identity of distinct persons. There is a difference between the supreme commander of the royal forces and the king. A big difference between Buratai and Buhari, or say, the Greyworm and Khaleesi.

DappaD:
Looking at this from another angle—there is every indication that the angel at Revelation 20:1 is Jesus Christ because he(Jesus) was the promised Seed who would crush the head of the serpent(Genesis 3:15) thereby bringing “to nothing, the one(Satan) having the means to cause death”(Hebrews 2:14) in the “lake of fire” meaning the “second death”. (Revelation 20:10,14)

Remembering that Revelation 20:1 mentions that the angel has “the key of the abyss” to imprison Satan and his demons, we cast out mind back to Revelation 1:18 that mentions Jesus has “the keys of death and of the Grave” . This “abyss” being boundless and a place of restrainment includes the Grave but is not limited to it.

To further buttress the point that the “angel” in Revelation 20:1 having the “keys of the abyss” is Jesus, we also take our mind back to his time on earth. During Jesus' earthly ministry, the demons who possessed a man, “kept pleading with him(Jesus) not to order them(the demons) to go away into the abyss” (Luke 8:30-31) which shows that they knew Jesus had the authority to confine the demons(fallen angels) in an abyss—Revelation 20:1-3

Let's journey back to the old testament and see how angels function along with the divine.

Genesis 16:10
"I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude"

Who was speaking? An Angel of the Lord

Who was going to Multiply the seed? GOD!

Exodus 12:12
And the LORD spake unto Moses saying - For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt I will execute judgement: I am the LORD.

God said "He will.....". Will God / Did God literally leave his throne in heaven, come/came down to Egypt and smite the firstborn in the land himself? No!

For the scripture said:
23.For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blodd upon the lintel and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door and will not allow the destroyer to come into your house and smite you

Who said He would do the smiting? God!
Did God Leave his throne in heaven to start smiting people on earth, did he LITERALLY do the smiting? No!
An Angel (who Moses called " the destroyer" literally did it.

We can go on and on, with the account of Moses encountering an angel of the lord in a burning bush (yet the angel's voice never gave a second person kind of speech, He spoke as God!). Yea, we can speak of How God by his Mighty hands deliver Hezekiah, yet it was not God who literally went about smiting the 185,000. Who did? An angel of the LORD.

Dappa my beloved, what shall we then say? God is an angel? God forbid!
Is it not for this purpose amidst others that God created angels? That they be envoys, emmisarries, messengers, loyalists, carrying out the will of God in no other name but His!

For what is done in my name is done as though It were me, it is done in my (literal) stead.

What shall we then say? That the angels who have been subjected to the authority of Christ do not have his name in them?

For the scripture testifieth of this truth - And they overcame him by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto death.

What shall we say then, that the whole legion of angels (since they did the literal battle fighting and overcoming) are all a legion-ity of Christ? Nay.
Christ cannot be an angelic creature because ..... (Will fill in the blanks later)

I don't know if what I've said would make sense to you that much for now—which is why haddeylium advised you to meet any JWs in your area to have a sitdown discussion. If you have any other questions, please visit jw.org

I enjoyed your write up DappaD.

KNOWMORE56:
To claim Jesus ressurected as spirit being
means saints and sinners are going to be resurrected as spirit beings.

You see beloved, the safe haven of anyone who believes Christ never resurrected bodily is the word or term "spirit being".
Why?
There are different beings with spirit
1. God (Jesus said "God is SPIRIT)
2. Angels (Who makes his angels SPIRIT)
3. Man (Numerous biblical verses for this)

So, if anyone will say " Christ Jesus ressurected as a spirit being " , such person is technically et scripturally right.
Why?
For Christ Jesus truly ressurected as one of these spirit beings; A God, An Angel or A man.
We will talk about the kind of body (if any) he rose up with later, the most deciding truth needed is - What kind of being is Christ Jesus in heaven (after ressurection of course)?

DappaD:
Looking at this from another angle—there is every indication that the angel at Revelation 20:1 is Jesus Christ because he(Jesus) was the promised Seed who would crush the head of the serpent(Genesis 3:15) thereby bringing “to nothing, the one(Satan) having the means to cause death”(Hebrews 2:14) in the “lake of fire” meaning the “second death”. (Revelation 20:10,14)

Remembering that Revelation 20:1 mentions that the angel has “the key of the abyss” to imprison Satan and his demons, we cast out mind back to Revelation 1:18 that mentions Jesus has “the keys of death and of the Grave” . This “abyss” being boundless and a place of restrainment includes the Grave but is not limited to it.

To further buttress the point that the “angel” in Revelation 20:1 having the “keys of the abyss” is Jesus, we also take our mind back to his time on earth. During Jesus' earthly ministry, the demons who possessed a man, “kept pleading with him(Jesus) not to order them(the demons) to go away into the abyss” (Luke 8:30-31) which shows that they knew Jesus had the authority to confine the demons(fallen angels) in an abyss—Revelation 20:1-3

I don't know if what I've said would make sense to you that much for now—which is why haddeylium advised you to meet any JWs in your area to have a sitdown discussion. If you have any other questions, please visit jw.org

I love this new robe you put on. Your comments are essence-focused and no longer the argument-minded format most of us (+ JW, the few Jews and Muslims) use to communicate.
I will modify DappaD, look into your proposition above and give my reply. Brb in a jiffy.

AkinwaleJJ:
Great!

No JW will say anything short of what the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses teaches {John 14:26}, hence we all have the same line of thought {1Corinthians 1:10} as we're of one body {John 17 21-23} because we're of one Lord, one faith, one baptism!! Ephesians 4:5
So if you're not interested in what the spirit of oneness is teaching the obedient ones, then let's continue with the hide and seek!

[img]https://s8/images/MuttleyDriveLaff.gif[/img]
I'm out to get my own copy of the NWT, tell haddeylium and janosky (in case you meet them by the way)- I will be back!
PS: Haddey my beloved just called the ressurected Jesus an angelic creature, let's see if there is such scriptural proof in the NWT.

MaxInDHouse:
Sorry Sir, Mama said i shouldn't engage you anymore, so i'm just playing the hide and seek stuff that those who respect the commentator but despises the source of the commentator's wisdom loves!

Smiles... None of the "respect" has anything to do (directly or indirectly) with the sect you've pledged your allegiance to.

You don't need my response because it's not mine, whatever you here Maximus say is from the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses![/b]

I never asked for yours, I'm only interested in haddeylium's and janosky's.

So just say you want to learn from the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, and Maximus will divulge what the GB infused in his head!

No, your organization cannot teach me anything. Yea, no organization can!
I have a master already, only His voice I hear.

haddeylium:
Which part of Jesus resuming his position as an archangel don't you understand?(1 Thes 4:16)
I know your trouble is the ‘Angel'
Take it by step..
Simply..
The Hebrew word malkah translated as Angel in English means Son of God
Any spirit creatures that are Son of God in heaven are Angels(Job 1:6)

Are we playing with words now?
When I say angel, I'm not talking about a messenger or some emissary. We both know I am talking about pure angelic creatures, the likes of - Gabriel, Michael and co.

In summary, is this your answer?
Haddeylium: Christ Jesus in heaven (after resurrection of course) is an angelic being/ creature, just like Gabriel.

If that's your answer, give a scripture that proves your answer to be biblical and not something puffed up from the mind.

MaxInDHouse:
They just feel like arguing fruitlessly and they are expecting JWs to come playing hide and seek with them!

Like I said sir, gone are the days of "trying to prove a point". The strength to argue is no more, all there is now is the thirst for essence.

There is just one Almighty God in heaven, humans like Moses and Jesus who walked on earth served as God but after their earthly assignment they returned to their position as lesser beings under the Almighty God.

Yeshua and Moshe were never at any point of their existence equal to Almighty God.

So Jesus a former mighty spirit in heaven came to earth and lived as a mighty God like Moses in the midst of men but died, resurrected and returned to heaven only to sit at the right hand of someone who ordered him to do so.

I'm following...

Yet someone feel like asking intelligent question said
"Jesus returns to heaven as what?"
Sorry he returned as all of the above!

No, no, no! Where has the wisdom of God that ought to be evident in his followers gone?
You were specific and straightforward with Pre-human of Jesus. You were specific and straightforward with Jesus' life on earth.
If it be the same wisdom that speaketh for the pre-human and human era, let it also speak for the person of Christ after his earthly ministry.
Max, I so much respect you, but what's this?
You are a witness, speak as a witness! Why dribble around like Maradona? If you won't answer the question you can as well ignore, why this?
Look at what you said
"Sorry, he returned to heaven as all of the above."
Is this scriptural?
Is this Logical?
Is this reasonable?
Is this sensible?
This is your "wackest reply" ever.

haddeylium:
Put simply, he's Michael the archangel in his prehuman existence. After he died he was resurrected to resume his position and now ruling as king.

I don't care about his prehuman existence, I want post-human existence.
We all know His office is that of the king but that's not what my question is about.

we've had this discussion.
How/when did Jesus' life began?
What did Jesus do before he came to the earth?
why did Jesus' have to die and the significance of his death?
what's Jesus doing now after his resurrection?
Your best bet is a Jw in your area.

Brooooooo, what's these na?!!!!
I did not ask for prehuman existence nor did I ask for his office in heaven.
Christ Jesus in heaven (after his time on earth of course), what kind of being is he?
A. A God
B. An Angel
C. A man
Just give a succinct A,B, or C answer with a scripture that backs your answer.

Here is a truth teaser cum finder:
Christ Jesus in heaven, what kind of being is he?
A. A God
B. An Angel
C. A man
Give a succinct A,B or C answer with a scripture that supports it without any doubt whatsoever.
Haddeylium, you wanna try?
I sight DappaD in the house, what's up bro?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The question is not for JW only, any interested interlocutor can give us his answer.

MuttleyLaff:
I never said you owe me anything, but you dont seem to understand you own it to yourself to come out to state clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt how exactly, precisely, practically and particularly did God harden Pharaoh's heart as you're over and over again, always and constantly wailing, bleating, shouting upandan the forum. All the above is just you playing to the gallery, doing pretend eye service and buying for time, lmso. Mic drop.

As usual, you chicken out when the going gets tough.
If only, if only God had not plainly said the words "I will harden Pharaoh's heart"... Ohh, if only Paul had penned down Romans 9 to show that the " I will harden Pharaoh's heart" was just some fancy speech or figure, we won't have someone here desperately twisting scriptures to suit his absolute freewill idea.

Ciao Muttley, you've lost your sauce on this hardening and freewill discussion.

MuttleyLaff:
Blabbermouth, until, you are able, capable, equipped to state clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt how exactly, precisely, practically and particularly did God harden Pharaoh's heart as you're over and over again, constantly wailing, bleating, shouting upandan the forum, then all the above is just you playing to the gallery and pretend eye service.

Just explain in such a way that a 2 year old can understand how God hardened Pharaoh's heart? This shouldn't be a big deal or complex thing for you to describe now

I'm sorry MuttleyLaff, I don't owe you that one. The onus was not on me in the first place, so when you asked "how did God harden Pharaoh's heart?", I gave you my condition(s):
Tell me
A. How Did God spoken words create a physical universe

AND/OR

B. The diverse ways God can harden a human's heart

Until then, either you settle with the plain words " I will harden Pharaoh's heart " or know within you (sure, you might not want to admit because of ego and preconceived notions) that your view was unscriptural and false.

Have a Nice Day.

Janosky:
Whether you accept it or not, the entire 1Corinthians chapter 15 is at the heart of this matter.
A. Jesus is Not God.
[b]1 Cor15:24-27. "Jesus hands over the kingdom to his God and Father" in the spirit realm. Shikena !
Make Una RECEIVE SENSE.
.

[b]B. Angel. Yes.
1 Cor15:45, "the first Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life giving spirit."

[b]Questions for Shadeyinka and Blattermouth:
does the first Adam and the last Adam Jesus have the same Father/God in the spirit realm?

Shadeyinka and Blattermouth, Is the last Adam a Spirit Son in heaven?

Blabbermouth and Shadeyinka, What is the other words for angels in heaven?
Angel in Hebrew= Sons of God/ Messenger.
The last Adam is the first born of every creature, Himself is a creature.
.

Shadeyinka and Blattermouth, 1 Cor15:22.
" For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in Christ all will be made alive."
Emphasis on " MADE ALIVE"
1Cor 15:22, who are made alive?
The dying humanity.

1 Peter 3:18 , What was made alive?
The dead Jesus in the fleshly realm was made alive in the spirit realm
1 Cor15:40, the glory of spirit bodies superior to the glory of human bodies.
Why would Jesus Christ go to heaven with human body?
John 17:24 the glory was in the spirit realm.
Una no get SENSE

Man.
1 Cor15:3,22,45,For a while he was a man, liable to death. But now Jesus is a life giving spirit son of God.
[/b]

Your reply is not well written sir, please re-ask the questions you asked there.
Janosky my friend, I need a succinct answer- Just choose A, B or C and give a perfect scripture that proves your answer true.
Christ Jesus in Heaven, What Kind of Being is he?
A. A God
B. An Angel
C. A man

CC: MuttleyLaff
Read slowly, it sure needs some seconds to sink in

A BRIEF EXEGESIS ON THE BOOK OF ROMANS CHAPTER 9:9-23
9. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac
11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
12. It was said unto her, the elder shall serve the younger.

Commentary: As at the time Rebecca conceived her first born (i.e Esau), even before they were born it was said unto the woman “the elder shall serve the younger”. This is not as a consequence of the evil done or a reward of the good deeds done neither was it by foreknowledge but that the purpose of God according to election might stand. So, Esau did not do anything to qualify him to serve his younger i.e Jacob. Also, Jacob did not do anything worthy for his elder brother to serve him, it was all of God who calleth.

13. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated
14. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

Commentary: The fact that Esau was actually predestined by God to serve his younger comes of as bias to any average person. Why should not God let things pan out on their own? Is it not unrighteous for God to meddle into the life and destiny of Esau? God forbid

15. For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.

Commentary: The Lord God himself made note vividly of how a lot of things actually does not depend on the pen, but on the writer who holds the pen. That you are saved is not because you have a particular quality that makes you special, your salvation did not come because you were born to a particular household, your salvation never came because you were rich, your salvation came because God drew you to Christ.
John 6:44 –No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day
What precedes all is not your will, what precedes all is not your works (or your potential), what precedes all is the mercy of God. After the mercy has been shown by the Lord God, then your will and your works (potentials and all) come into play.

17. For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth

Commentary: (The writer was giving a scriptural example of the point he raised in verse 15 and 16)
The Lord God moved to manifest himself as God of every man, and achieve his eternal long purpose and desire – He didn’t directly call unto the attention of everyone on earth, he started with a single man (Abraham). Then from a single man, He moved to a family. Then from a family, His relationship expanded to a nation (all for the purpose of intimacy, worship, redemption/salvation).
Israel were God’s own people right from the day he has vested his jealousy upon Abraham, however He permitted Egypt to take Israel captive that his purpose be achieved (for there was a lot of chiseling and work to be done in order for man’s redemption with God to take place). God is spirit, man was flesh – how can man who is spiritually dead understand the true purpose and content of salvation from the spiritual realm (this is where true salvation is), is it not wise for man (that understands the language of the flesh) to grasp salvation from a flesh realm before advancing to the spiritual salvation. Thus, there was need to first establish salvation from the physical (to prep. Mankind) then move on to the real salvation which is spiritual.


1 Corinthians 15:45-46
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual

Thus, the captivity of Israel and their enslavement to Egypt was a physical representation of how we are subjected and made slave to the power of death. The exodus of the Israelites was thus a physical representation of how we are saved by the outstretched, Mighty, fearful, saving, I-am-that-I-am arm of God. Thus there was need for a vessel that will serve as the model of man’s subjection to the power of death, and this was the boot and role Pharaoh filled. As the Lord himself saith – For this purpose (as explained above) have I (God) raised thee(Pharaoh) up, that I (God) might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Footnotes: Did God achieve His purpose? Hell Heaven Yes!
Exodus 14:13 – And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will show you today: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen today, ye shall see them again no more forever (Death (Egypt) is/was swallowed up in victory, halleluyah!)
-------
Exodus 14:31 – And Israel saw that great work which the LORD did upon the Egyptians: and the people feared the LORD and believed the LORD, and his servant Moses. (Now, the whole of Israel knew that they had a God that be for them, they Believed him and also got a revelation (a taste actually) of Who he is (Revelation of “who God is” is one of the most important pillar of salvation)

By God’s hardening of Pharaoh, all these were achieved;
1. Salvation was set in motion
2. God’s name was made manifest and glorified in all Israel, Egypt and the entire neighborhood (it was an important factor Israel banked upon in many occasions)
3. Isreal (God’s own people) Believed and feared the LORD

IF, If Pharaoh had not filled these boots (if he was not hardened or had willfully given up immediately), all these would have resulted:
1. Salvation won’t be set in motion
2. The Israelites may fall into another captivity pretty much soon
3. Israel won’t know the LORD, Believe Him and Fear him and many more which time will not permit, if we were to make mention.

Thus, it was 100% necessary and important that Pharaoh was hardened.

18. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth

Commentary: The writer of the book of Enoch said “I observed the constellations of the heavens, the luminaries, how everything happened and was in order and nothing irregular in appearing”. To whom he will have mercy on, God has his reason and purpose and to whom he will harden, God has his reason and purpose.

19. Thou wilt say then unto me, why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Commentary: The writer was like – I know you will want to ask me – Why does God find fault then, is it not his work that certain things happened the way they did? Them born anybody well to alter God’s orchestration?

20. Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21. Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?

Commentary: The writer himself was answering the question he was so sure the readers will ask him – It is not wise to take such up as a case against God, who has the say as to the kind of form the lump of clay will take? The potter or the clay? What does the clay know, how far does he see, can it mould itself by itself? No! The Potter is the one with the expertise here and He (alone) surely knows for what reason he will make a vessel unto honor and another vessel unto dishonor. If the basket (assume it is a work of art) prides itself for being the vessel used in taking home the harvest of the rain, will/can it measure up to an earthen pot when a vessel is needed for storing the rain water? If every vessel were made a basket, which one will the potter use to take in water when it rains?

22. What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction;
23. And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Commentary: As it was said in the book of revelations – all things were created for thy pleasure .

Janosky:
.
Philippians 2:6 Romans 8:3,Jesus was existing in God's spirit form before coming to earth
John 20:17, according to Blabber & Shadeyinka, Jesus Christ went to heaven in Human body to meet a Spirit,his God and Father.
Una think say una get SENSE?
2 Corinthians 5:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:44-45, shebi na Jehovah's witnesses write am for una BIBLE ?

Why quote Corinthians? You are yet to dribble around the scriptures Shade gave you.
Here is a truth teaser:
Christ Jesus in Heaven, what kind of Being is he?
A. God
B. Angel
C. Man

Tip: Any of the answer is deadly, go with the truth, not your instinct!

achorladey:
why are you responding since your own Jesus Jehovah did not steal his body .

ROFLMAO! The knockout you've given Maximus is too much for two persons sef, he also deserves rest e joor.

1914.

[img]https://s8/images/MuttleyDriveLaff.gif[/img]
In Arnold Schwarzenegger's voice - I will be back!

AkinwaleJJ:
"Do not give what is holy to dogs nor throw your pearls before swine" Matt 7:6a

Hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
The Lord knows them that are His; Let every man that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity (+ false and Antichrist doctrines)

Hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha

MuttleyLaff:
"Jesus said to them,
“If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God;
nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me."
- John 8:42

I also proceedeth forth and came from my Father. For I was in the loins of my father when he was copulating with my soon-to-be mother, then at the climax of pleasure, I proceedeth from my Father and ran a very crucial race with my brothers. "Stay here!"- I said, then I added " I will be back". Thus I conjoined with a valid egg (which will be my body) and became a living soul soon enough.
Am I my Father's incarnate? No!
Am I in my Father's image? Yes!
Genesis 5:3
"And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called him Seth."
Are we the same person? No!
Can I have a will different from my Father's? Yes!
Why? We are not the same person!
Decode that beloved, "exerchomai" does not prove trinity.

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth,
which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"
- John 15:26

There is an angel called - THE ANGEL OF THE LORD'S PRESENCE. What do you know of Him?

You can't run, you can't hide from "exerchomai," the Greek original word translated as "proceeded forth" lmso. Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, from the Father, acquired power to walk on water and hence defied the law of gravity, lmso. The Father, Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, all form or comprise the Godhead.

Hmmmm

MaxInDHouse:
Sorry Mr Blabbermouth, Mama said it's enough with you!

Hahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
In what bible verse can I find this?

MaxInDHouse:
Well that's what being a Christian entails my guy, it's not about being a perfect person who can cultivate all the qualities of God's Holy Spirit for now, but once you're humble enough to subject yourself under Christ's anointed brothers, you'll be helped to maintain the qualities you already had and cultivate the needed ones. Know that we must be Holy (pure as in unblemish) because Jehovah our God is Holy, but that's not possible for now, that's why he (God) is giving us 1,000 years to learn from Jesus Christ!

If this were the Big plan, humans will Fall over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
1. I thought the LOVE, JOY and PEACE you speak of was a trait that can be found in most of you individually, what's these I am hearing again?
What profit hath thee, that you love your own? Even the witches of a coven love their sisters likewise.

2. To a common JW, what is "Grace"?

You'll have heard of reproof and disfellowshiping offenses amongst Jehovah's Witnesses, well it's not about perfection but repentant attitude, of course you're not perfect so you'll make mistakes but are you willing to accept discipline and make amendments?

If I keep soiling your organization's image over and over (maybe because I am addicted), you will break fellowship with me! Not because I am unrepentant (an addicted Christian is always willing to stop but the flesh is weak), but for the fact that I keep shaming your org.

shadeyinka:
You either remembered the last message you preached in your Kingdom hall or found online what you consider as a suitable message.

But keep your preachings as I didn't ask for one. The ones I did ask, you misrably ignored. Go practice your message elsewhere.

Signed out!

Nevertheless the foundation of the LORD standeth sure having this seal - The LORD knows them that are His...
Even before the OP created this thread, we are all as sure as death that the JW members will never UNLearn and RELearn since they have one Lord - the Watchtower Organization and what they are fed is what they dish.
You've given them straight-forward Scriptures, Jesus' own words, and what did they say - "Ohh Shade, you don't have the holy spirit working in you, (indirectly) Jesus was a clown, he was only using his words to confuse the wolf " ROFLMAO.
Gone are the days of "trying to prove a point", in this season, I go for Essence and essence Only!... Until they can prove that Christ never said those words you quoted, then there is no essence in discussing with a sect whose Lord is not Christ Jesus.

Erojepromise:
you are such a liar l have had some Jehovah witnesses preach to me and they have never once said or try to teach that(your points), don't go spreading false things about a certain denomination because you don't like their doctrines

Hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha

Barristter07, does angel Gabriel have a spiritual body? YES or NO!

Barristter07:
"When buried, it is a physical body; when raised, it will be a spiritual body. There is, of course, a physical body, so there has to be a spiritual body" - 1Cor 15:44

Do you agree with the Bible Jesus have a spiritual body ?

When something is Spiritual, It is not physical , agree ?

Does Angel Gabriel have a spiritual body?
YES or NO

iLegendd:
Finally, I kinda look like Black Jesus and I'm here to save you guys from financial depression and relationship issues while putting a smile on your face. I have the solution you need. Though, it's not free.

iLegendd's salvation is free, but you need to buy his Bible.

MaxInDHouse:
It will ever be to the source of the knowledge you're admiring in Maximus Sir! John 9:24-25
So don't ever think Maximus was like this if not for the sake of Jehovah's Witnesses Organization!

Hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha, it is 100% well sir Maximus.

Do not forget that your group's doctrine (on this matter) is against Christ's plain words.

AkinwaleJJ:
The blabbermouth man love how JWs clarify matters but doesn't want to hear us say the wisdom to sought things out is from Jehovah to Jesus to the GB and finally to the entire organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, no personal interpretation!

I love how you clarify matters? Well, it's because I'm not caged by any group to believe half truths and quarter myth and a sizable dose of poison. I am ever ready to UNLearn and RELearn as long as it is the TRUTH.
Why? The TRUTH (Jesus) is my Lord, not the G.O of Redeem, not the G.O of Living faith and definitely not the watchtower.

So he loves hearing people ascribe praise to themselves not to any group, in order not to be compelled to submit to the rules of any group, if i were you, i'll stop entertaining him!

Rules? That sounds like saying - Hey bro, throw the grace Christ gave you and learn how to achieve things by ordinary works.
Thanks JJ, I will skip.