₦airaland Forum

Maximus69:
@ bolded is not there problem!

Of course they agreed that God has children and since Jesus is a Jew he is literally God's son by means of Abraham! Matthew 1:1 compared to Luke 3:23,38

They can trace their genealogy from Abraham to God so they're claiming God's children! John 8:41

The problem they had was submitting to God's plan! The Messiah (Christ) will come and as the one and only human ever having direct dealing with God (after Adam and Eve), he's the only person who knows what God requires of us. Matthew 17:5
If the Pharisees should agree to that, then they must abandon their former religious setting, their position and their political ambitions to become Jesus' disciples, which will require that they become humble so as to start going from house to house with Jesus preaching (pleading) for the people to reconcile with God (repent). Matthew 10:10-15

Of course they'll prefer Jesus saying all religions are OK with just little adjustment as you're saying now, but Jesus insisted that everyone living in Israel back then must abandon whatever they believe before to become his follower {Matthew 19:21} This seems impossible for anyone in their class so the only way to remain relevant in the society is to keep their religion while Jesus also keep his own. But since Jesus is winning the people's heart (with his teachings and claiming no one can have God's blessing apart from his followers) they can't bear it anymore so they planned to get rid of him! Matthew 26:4

Today, Jehovah's Witnesses are the one and only group following the program Jesus initiated back then, that's why everything about us totally differs from all the religions on earth and we are gradually penetrating all the earth to find subjects for Jesus! Matthew 28:19-20

If you ask me, i'll say that's why we keep saying "no one outside our group will be saved on the day of judgment", well that's exactly the same statement that made the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and all other Rabbis hate Jesus with passion! John 3:16-18

In all this long Grammer digression the truth of the matter is they never adhered to Christ teachings and God's word which is the same thing JW is know for.
what gives you credit before God is not going house to house preaching what you like, but what matter most to God is that you go house to house preaching the true word and doctrine of God .

Janosky:
** Wetin Musa no go see for gate ?

BlueAgent, what's the Thesaurus definition of "CREATE"?
* Why are you dishonest?
Re: The Trinity Doctrine Is a False doctrine
and it is Unbiblical.
by Janosky : 9:24pm On Nov 03
blueAgent :
That's while people dislike JW because
they can lie a lot.
according to your word you say JW
agree that God born Jesus as well as
Israel.
Deut 32:18
"You neglected the Rock who begot you, And
forgot the God who gave you birth.
1 John5:1.
Your case is beyond the scope of JWs or NL
to resolve.
blueAgent :
Clown.
It's obvious English is not even your
4th language you seem not to
understand what Synonyms.
I just exposed your fraud, that the word
create can still be translated or mean
to born, breed,bear,beget which means
JESUS CAN STILL BE A CREATED (BORN) BEING still be the literal son of God.
Which fraud ?
You wan deny Hebrew YALAD & QANAH ?
(Go back to threads 28/29.....)
In the words of blueAgent "Jesus can still be
a CREATED (born) BEING and still be the
literal son of God.
Omo, see confession ! '"CREATED BEING..."
Bros Blue, ekushe oooo !
I go buy 2 bottles of orijin for you.
Shey you dey like 'shacks'?

** IT IS OBVIOUS TO A NEUTRAL PERSON THAT MANY OF YOUR BELIEFS ARE SIMILAR TO JW BELIEFS ,( WITH EXCEPTION OF A FEW).
THE LABEL YOU TAG JWs ALSO REFER TO YOU.

When will you stop exposing your ignorance?


First am the OP of this thread which means am totally against trinity doctrine.

My argument has always been that Jesus was born by God while you guys insist that he was created by God.

But fortunately for me been created by God does not mean he was not born by God because the Synonyms of create is to bare,born procreate e.t.c

Instead of you to accept the truth you are trying hard to prove me wrong which you can never achieve.

jcross19:
yes because God never die we can't exist without God now I quoted revelation 20:10 says And the devil that deceived them was casted into the lake of fire and brimstone , where the beast and the false prophet are and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. "for ever and ever " mean what there ? if they are not immortal why will they use for ever and ever for them in the fire.

Repeating myself on this subject of forever is like me talking to a wall, suit yourself.

MuttleyLaff:
"He said, In solemn truth I tell you that unless you turn and become like little children,
you will in no case be admitted into the Kingdom of the Heavens."
- Matthew 18:3

Thank you very much blueAgent. May God bless you very much and real big good, as I take out the sting from that "don't be such a jerk, behaving like a jackass" venom. Amen.

Am already blessed.

MuttleyLaff:
Ọgbẹni, if you have any regards for yourself my friend, you'll respect yourself, mind your language, your tone and watch that acid tongue of yours.

Now that you have been served and given an advanced warning, if you then still insist in continuing to toe the undisciplined line and your unbridled tongue with me, then I would have no choice than to expose you for what you are and from what I've noticed in all this.

And what will happen?

Maximus69:
Exactly what stubborn religious leaders in Judaism were saying IN THEIR HEARTS!

They were saying "it's God's word vs this Carpenter's son, we'll rather die in our understanding of the scriptures than join those fooling themselves around with that SATANIST"

Despite all what Jesus performed in their midst, they kept arguing based on they own understanding of the scriptures, they defy the sign God gave their generation!

Jesus said generations after that time will not be given any sign except that of Jonah, Jonah was a prophet who committed blunders both in carrying out his assignment and reasoning but God still used him as his prophet. Jehovah's Witnesses will not perform any miracles for you to be convinced that we are the people Micah talked about! Micah 4:2-4

You will notice the blunders of those overseeing the activities of this organization, but there will be NO RELIGIOUS GROUP that will stand to achieve 1% of what they're doing in your neighborhood!

Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and other Rabbis strongly asserted that Jesus was a Satanist {Mark 3:22} they damn all the composite signs the prophets including John the baptist said about the coming Messiah { John 10:41} and they continued justifying themselves with false reasoning {John 7:45-49} even when a member of their group tried to show reasonableness they vehemently silenced him {John 7: 50-52} They stood before Pontius Pilate (a Roman governor) saying "we're responsible for his death, let his INNOCENT blood come upon us and our children"! Matthew 27:25

So we are not forcing you to agree with us on what we've read, studied, seen and heard about this organization {Zachariah 8:23, Isaiah 2:1-4} all what Jesus asked us to do is bear witness to you that what he instituted during the first century, is now yielding fruit bountifully {Matthew 24:14, 28:19-20, Act 1:8 compared to Matthew 5:14-15, 7:15-20}} You can see a global family of peace loving worshippers all actively preaching and teaching in your neighborhood today just as ONE BODY {John 17:20-23} therefore if you're now battling with false religion and you feel that Jesus' group is still not IDENTIFIABLE, then we'll leave you to continue arguing fruitlessly with your brothers who are worshipers of TRINITY!
Thank you Sir!

You keep making reference to Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and other Rabbis, but you fail to understand that JW have so many things in common with them.

Jesus was never happy with the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and other Rabbis because they replaced God's word with theirs, God's teachings with theirs and also they never accepted that Jesus was the literal Son of God.
So you can see that God is not happy with JW as well as with the Pharisees,Sadducees,

Maximus69:
Exactly what stubborn religious leaders in Judaism were saying IN THEIR HEARTS!

They were saying "it's God's word vs this Carpenter's son, we'll rather die in our understanding of the scriptures than join those fooling themselves around with that SATANIST"

Despite all what Jesus performed in their midst, they kept arguing based on they own understanding of the scriptures, they defy the sign God gave their generation!

Jesus said generations after that time will not be given any sign except that of Jonah, Jonah was a prophet who committed blunders both in carrying out his assignment and reasoning but God still used him as his prophet. Jehovah's Witnesses will not perform any miracles for you to be convinced that we are the people Micah talked about! Micah 4:2-4

You will notice the blunders of those overseeing the activities of this organization, but there will be NO RELIGIOUS GROUP that will stand to achieve 1% of what they're doing in your neighborhood!

Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and other Rabbis strongly asserted that Jesus was a Satanist {Mark 3:22} they damn all the composite signs the prophets including John the baptist said about the coming Messiah { John 10:41} and they continued justifying themselves with false reasoning {John 7:45-49} even when a member of their group tried to show reasonableness they vehemently silenced him {John 7: 50-52} They stood before Pontius Pilate (a Roman governor) saying "we're responsible for his death, let his INNOCENT blood come upon us and our children"! Matthew 27:25

So we are not forcing you to agree with us on what we've read, studied, seen and heard about this organization {Zachariah 8:23, Isaiah 2:1-4} all what Jesus asked us to do is bear witness to you that what he instituted during the first century, is now yielding fruit bountifully {Matthew 24:14, 28:19-20, Act 1:8 compared to Matthew 5:14-15, 7:15-20}} You can see a global family of peace loving worshippers all actively preaching and teaching in your neighborhood today just as ONE BODY {John 17:20-23} therefore if you're now battling with false religion and you feel that Jesus' group is still not IDENTIFIABLE, then we'll leave you to continue arguing fruitlessly with your brothers who are worshipers of TRINITY!
Thank you Sir!

What do you think will take you to Heaven?
Is it God's word or commandments that you honour or that you belong to people who love peace and feel good about themselves.

Ihedinobi3:
I'm sure my intent was not to make you sick, although your teaching was apt to do worse to believers.

Forgive my misunderstanding. It just seemed to me that you were saying that the Lake of Fire was Edom since you said, "Here is another interesting note: "The smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever", from Revelation 14:11 obviously comes from Isaiah 34:10. It is the description of the destruction and desolation of Edom. Most of the book of Revelation actually is connected with the Old Testament." If Revelation 14:11 comes from Isaiah 34:10, then it must be referring to Edom. That was how I understood what you said. If this was not what you meant, perhaps you could have made it clearer.

If you only meant that Revelation 14:11 should be taken the same way as Isaiah 34:10, the question is why. Are they the same? In my thinking, they're not. What is happening in Isaiah 34 is actually Armageddon. It's part of a complex of chapters describing how God will deliver Israel from the world's armies gathered against it by the Antichrist to destroy it. The deliverance will occur at the Second Advent when the Lord Jesus will destroy those armies and reclaim the Earth from Satan. You can compare Zechariah 14 and Revelation 19 for proof.

The use of "forever" in that passage then refers to the absolute perfection of the judgment so that it will not cease until the Lord renews the Earth for His Millennial Reign.

In my thinking, you do realize that Revelation 14 is not at all speaking about Isaiah 34. Both are different things. Revelation 14 speaks of a judgment that occurs forever and ever from a heavenly perspective, which is where the Lamb and His Angels are, not from an earthly perspective as in Isaiah 34, which is where the nations invading Israel are.

I have also explained in that second installment of my answer that you responded to and in the first one too that the Earth cannot be the Lake of Fire since the Lord Jesus rules it for a thousand years after casting the Antichrist and his prophet into the Lake of Fire. As I also said, we also don't have any biblical proof that the Earth becomes the Lake of Fire even afterwards since we are told that it is removed from existence with fire by the Lord Jesus before the Judgment of the Great White Throne. If it was, then it cannot be the Lake of Fire into which the unrighteous are cast together with Satan and his fellow rebel angels.

If I am wrong about this, you have not quite demonstrated it. Your use of those passages you quoted, just like your use of Isaiah 34, ignores what the Bible says as a whole. If Zephaniah 1:18 means that the Lord will turn the Earth into the Lake of Fire, then which other Lake of Fire were the Antichrist and his prophet cast into at Armageddon in Revelation 19? If Zephaniah 3:8 means that the Lord consumed the entire Earth with fire at His Second Advent, which is what He is speaking of here, then where does the Millennial Reign of Revelation 20 occur? If 2 Peter 3:7-12 says that the Earth will be turned into the Lake of Fire, then why are we told in Revelation 20 and 21 and elsewhere in the Bible that this universe will pass away and be replaced with a new one?

It seems to me that you are misapplying Scriptures, forcing them to contradict each other in your bid to teach a lie. I don't know if it is something that you are doing on purpose, or if you are only in error unwittingly. My answers have been to show you that the Bible does not agree with your position. I understand if you disagree. After all, it is the nature of this forum that everyone claims to be a teacher here even if they are not even believers in Jesus Christ. But, for what good it might do you and others who might read these discussions, I am making my responses here for correction.

The Bible is unequivocal that what God has done is forever, as in the first passages I shared with you in my first post. That is, everything He created is built to last eternally. Not one thing can be removed from existence, nor can anything at all be added to Creation. This is clearly what Ecclesiastes 3:14 teaches. It is not at all biblical to claim that the souls (that is, the spirits that exist in corporeal bodies: both man and beast, as Ecclesiastes 3:18-21 teaches) will ever go out of existence. They will not. Their bodies will return to the dust (except for believers who live to see the Lord Jesus return, whose bodies will only be changed into eternal ones), but their spirits will receive a new "sheath" or "clothing," that is, an interim body (2 Corinthians 5:3 in Greek) to exist in either in Sheol or in Heaven (Ecclesiastes 3:18-21; Luke 16:22-23; Ephesians 4:8; and a host of other Scriptures) until the Resurrection at which time they will receive eternal bodies that are suited to their eternal status either as redeemed or as condemned (Daniel 12:2; John 5:28-29; Revelation 20:11-15).

When the Scriptures talk about the death of the sinning soul, it speaks of the Second Death, yes, but the Second Death does not contradict Ecclesiastes 3:14. Those who sin will be punished eternally by being excluded from God's Glorious Presence for all eternity and put in a place of suffering for all their mad rebellion. As the Lord Jesus says concerning them, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:40-42), that is, there shall be regret for their terrible choice, an impossibility if they are either unconscious or non-existent. The Second Death is called death because it is an exclusion from everything that is good from God. A state of existence where you have no access to any of God's gifts or to God Himself, that is already death, but if we add to such a place all that is God's curse and His Wrath, then we have an even worse state of existence than the human mind can begin to comprehend. It is better to not exist at all than to suffer such a punishment. That is why it is called a Death, not because there is any kind of cessation of existence.

To be clear, it is no kind of punishment at all for the wicked to simply go out of existence after spending their time here on Earth rebelling against the Lord and doing so much harm to His People. That they simply cease to exist is practically congratulations for being so smart. It is no justice at all. Consider that in Isaiah 66:24 (compare also Psalm 91:8 ), the Lord promises the righteous that they will be able to see His Justice upon those who have done so much wickedness to them. This is a comfort from the Lord. It has been said that Isaiah 66:24 proves that there is no eternal suffering for the wicked, but obviously that is not true. Why would the "dead bodies" of sinners last eternally, if the fires consumed them and wild animals can return after the smoke is gone, as it seems to me that you said? In fact, "corpses" or "dead bodies" is probably the best way to describe the state of existence of these rebels, since they lack anything that can rightly be called life. They have no light, no water, no food, no companionship, no joy, no peace, or anything good at all. Instead, they have the torment of the fire, the palpable darkness, the knowledge that they could never have defeated the Lord in their rebellion, the knowledge that they can never get out of that dreadful place, the consciousness that they are alone and without help or friends of any sort, the knowledge of all the good that they rejected in rejecting the Lord's Mercy, and so much more than all that. They are, for all intents and purposes, truly Dead, although they are very truly conscious and able to experience that Death consciously. The righteous will see this and rejoice in the Justice of their God.

This is what the Bible teaches. You may be unable to bear it, but it is the Truth nonetheless.

Please stop writting long meaningless articles be precise and straight to the point.

jcross19:
even the word destroyed from the bible don't really mean to end too.

And what does it mean other than to destroy?

jcross19:
you are the one that's confusing yourself ! I have given you a bible verse that terminated all your misquotes. go back and read rev. 20vs 10. tell me why the bible says " day and night " with the word "for ever and ever".you are confusing yourself and some people who have very poor understanding of the word. now let me quoted Ezekiel 28vs19 says: All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more! I know your confusion is the word " no more" now rev. 20vs10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone , where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented DAY and NIGHT for EVER and EVER ! lake of fire is a confinement for every condemned spirit now if the bible says they will be in that fire for ever, that means their end have come because they will not able to be out of fire again, that lake of fire is an eternal prison that can't be quench according to Bible meaning.

Clown.
It's obvious you have problem with comprehension.

Ezekiel 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

That Bible verse above says that God will turn Satan to Ashes upon the Earth in the sight of all.

If you had sense you would have known by now that the word forever does not always mean something without end.

jcross19:
Am still wondering after I read this verse rev.20vs10 says And the devil that deceived them was cast into lake of fire and brimstone , where the beast and the false prophets are, and shall be tormented DAY and NIGHT FOREVER and EVER meaning eternity can a mortal soul suffer for ever and ever if not immortal?

The truth is that the word forever used in that verse does not mean something without end, as we can see from Ezekiel 28 that the Devil will be destroyed.

jcross19:
you are quoting out of point view of bible sir! Satan started from the beginning and Jesus said he has been judged meaning condemned now there is different between evil spirit, Satan,demons and dark angels! pls. spirits don't die is either you take it or leave it ! every spirit is eternal either in bondage, in the lake of fire that burn forever ask yourself why would the fire forever if the prisoners can die?

Your argument is always without direction or meaning.

Can't you post a least one Bible verse to back this your comedy.

Maximus69:
You're deaf to the sign that God gave you to IDENTIFY true worshippers!

All what you're saying is still what those whose beliefs are coined out of TRINITY ideology teaches!

If all what you're trying to establish is FACT/TRUTH and not CREDULITY, there must be unity in the midst of those who fully grasp the sacred secrets. That's what Jesus said! John 17:20-23

So if you can't find such, then it's evident that what you've misunderstood the scriptures!

Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and many other Rabbis in Israel were all rival groups, when Jesus began to prepare people for Christianity all these religious groups protested saying Jesus was teaching heresy. But they failed to notice the sign that God gave them to help them realize that he is no more in support of Judaism!

The signs Jesus foretold will mark his followers in our time are all fulfilled with the emergence of Jehovah's Witnesses, if you're trying to refute this then you must present a better performing group that's fitting as Jesus' group in our day!

If you're not able to do that and you're arguing against the one you're seeing then what you're indirectly saying is that God's holy spirit can't ORGANIZE his people in an orderly manner!

It is God's word vs JW doctrine nothing more or less.

I rather die lonely believing God's word than live and identify with millions fellowing false teachings and lies

MuttleyLaff:
"Guard your heart above all else,
for it determines the course of your life
(i.e. for everything you do flows from the heart)"
- Proverbs 4:23

"The good man brings good things out of the good treasure of his heart,
and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil treasure of his heart.
For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks"
- Luke 6:45

blueAgent, I am 110% sure you'll agree and accept that, it is the Soul that is saved even Ezekiel 18:20 emphatically states that: "The soul that sinneth, it shall die.", it doesnt say its the Body or the Spirit. Now, the heart is used by the Soul but the heart definitely is not the Spirit

Let me slip this bit in, first, as a preamble. Proverbs 4:23 and Luke 6:45 above, informs us that, it's out of the abundance of the heart first, then processed in the brain or mind, before the mouth speaks. All evil intents comes forth out of the heart, as in, the heart housed in the human Body. Mark 7:21-22, paints a picture of the heart with the following: "For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness" and Jeremiah 17:9 doesnt paint the heart in good light either, as it says: "The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?"

Incidentally, the verse, Psalms 51:10, informatively tells us, that the heart is linked with the mind, which is part of the Soul. The same Soul or psyche uses the heart as an outlet, to pass out or pass in things, from the Body and/or Spirit via the heart in the Soul. I'll soon below explain how it does this and/or how this works

What is man?
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
- Genesis 2:7

"For the Spirit of God has made me,
and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."
- Job 33:4

Man is a spirit being, residing or housed in a Body and possessing a Soul (i.e. a psyche). In fact, Man is made up of Body, Soul and Spirit. As a matter of fact, the Soul or psyche, has the Body and Spirit on each opposite sides of it. In a nutshell, Man essentially, is a spirit being with a Soul, housed, encapsulated, and/or wrapped up, in a human being body suit.

Genesis 2:7 and Job 33:4 above, informs us, its "ruach" the Spirit from God and "neshamah" that keeps the human body animated.

Now blueAgent, please dont try to mix up "ruach" and "neshamah" with ordinary and/or commonplace spirits, as in meaning, dont try to mix up the Spirit of God and the breath or wind of God, with extraterrestrial beings, which is what evil and good spirits are.

Fyi, "ruach", in Hebrew, with its corresponding Greek word "pneuma" essentially and in an almost oversimplified way means force. It is breath, wind, spirit of God, all rolled in as one thing. It in a sense, is the invisible force or power of God, hence why being perceived as a Spirit, so yes, "ruach" is the Spirit of God. In fact you wont wrong in saying that "ruach" or "Ha Ruach Ha Kodesh" is the Holy Spirit, as in, the Spirit of God.

You can see both "ruach" and "neshamah" being interplayed in the creation of man from Genesis 2:7 reproduced above, and as a witness plus as a supporting verse, Job 33:4 you see reproduced above, confirms, by testifying, that, its "ruach" that made man and it is "neshamah" that gives man life

"Neshamah", incidentally, is actually derived from another Hebrew word called "nasham" that means to pant and/or blow away with air, now, when the spirit, as in, meaning, "neshamah", the breath, returns back to God, the Body slumps and the Soul goes into comatose. This looks and feels, similar to a TV animated cartoon changed and turned into a cartoon strip character, on a comic book or magazine paper. TV animated cartoon characters moves, but cartoon strip character, on a comic book or magazine paper dont move like animated cartoon characters watched on TV screens. For the life of the body is in the blood and the life of the soul is in the spirit. When the spirit leaves the body, it returns back to God, leaving the body inanimate, meaning leaves it motionless and lifeless, as in, without life or no more with life. Ecclesiastes 12:7

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."
- Ecclesiastes 12:7

Now, moving further on, the Spirit and Soul have different faculties, where the faculties of the spirit, comprises of Fellowship, Conscience, Discernment or Intuition, while the faculties of the Soul are made up of the Mind (i.e. consciousness and sub consciousness) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions. The Body is not left out, it has 5 faculties of senses, and these are, sight, as in to see via the eyes, hearing, as in hear via the ears, touch, as in, feel via applicable part of the body, smell, as in, perceive via the nose and last but not the least, taste, as in, sense with the mouth.

The Body is worldly conscious and relates to the environment and its surroundings, the Soul is self conscious and relates to self & other people and the Spirit is God conscious and relates to God. After the death of the Body, the Soul without God, without any affinity with God, cant achieve or have eternal life

Now, remember blueAgent, that your question was: "What do I think is the Soul?" Well, my intro response is, the Soul, biblically speaking, is the most important existence of Man and that is why the battle is and always has been about and over the Soul. All attacks, are ultimately targeted at and for the Soul. Now, getting started proper, the Soul is the first medium key component of Man created by God and Man is tickled and accessed through this same Soul, by way of the Body and Spirit. The Soul, as a matter of fact and in effect, is the mediator between the Body and Spirit. The Soul uses the heart, as the point from where issues are sent out and/or distributed from.

Let me elaborate and explain a bit how everything works, the different faculties in the Soul waits, to pick up signals coming from the relevant and/or applicable faculties in the Body and the Spirit. This crucial bit of information here, is very important to grasp, and it is that, the Soul receives from the Body and deposits into the Spirit. Whatever the Body reads or sees via the eyes, hears via the ears, feels via applicable part of the body, smells via the nose and talks or tastes via the mouth is picked up by the Soul and deposited into the Spirit. The Spirit then, upon receiving these things from the Soul, has to deal with or process what the Soul has deposited into the Spirit's laps.

Fya blueAgent, please note, anywhere in the post you see "Spirit", unless it is stated otherwise, take it, to mean, as in, spirit-man, and not the Holy Spirit or Spirit of God. Thank you

Now, this here, is why regulation is very important. It is why we ought to control and oversee what the Soul is picking up from or what it is picking up with the senses. If you have to by all means, eat the chicken or fish, then its necessary to know when and how to spit out the bones, or if it's straw to eat, then know when and how to spit out the sticks, alternatively, if it's liquor to drink, and you cant hold it down so you don't throw it up, then know how or when to stay away from the liquor. Caveat emptor clause #1 done.

The devil has no power over anyone, except if such person, is in the dark, dabbling in the dark or is ignorant, so I'll advise the curious to distance themselves from dabbling into the dark, to save themselves from misery, but if hellbent on dining with the devil, then make sure you've got a long spoon to dine and eat with. Caveat emptor clause #2 done.

Resuming and back on track, now, if the Soul picks up an interaction, info, instruction, message, communication, issue etcetera from the Body, it cant interpret, then the deposit the Soul received from the Body and put into the Spirit will be unfruitful then (i.e. remember the red emboldened above hmm?) The thing here, is that, the Spirit, by the God design, knows what it expects from the Soul for positive fruition to be possible but the Soul has received from the Body something it doesnt via the Mind or Intellect understand or know about. Wahala don begin to gas be dat ooo. Now, just as in the physical, when the stomach growls, making noises for food, when nourishing is long overdue, so it is spiritually, the Spirit, intercedes for us through wordless and noiseless groans for substances necessary for growth, health and good condition

The Soul, as a conduit, a vent hole determines what the Spirit receives, but if the Soul is transferring the wrong expectations (e.g. like not praying right, not asking right, not the will of God etctera) then the Spirit, does the wordless groans. It does this because the spirit-man knows what should be prayed for, so it becomes restless with wordless groans, when the expectation(s) is not forthcoming or not in sight. The Spirit, as in, the spirit-man, is like saying: Hey Mr Soul, where are the goods I am expecting, please dont feed me with trash, junk and any of all these ungodly razzmatazz stuffs. So since the Spirit, is capable of asking and telling the Soul what it needs, the Soul just has to return back to the Body to honour the request and be asking the Body for correct or "kosher" stuff and not the crap its received

Now, if it is one of those classic cases of the Spirit, is willing BUT the Body is weak, then the Body many times will REFUSE the Soul the request of the Spirit, and here we have a typical case of struggle or power tussle going on in the Soul involving the Body and the Spirit
The Spirit , knows what it needs the Soul giving it from the Body (i.e. the Spirit tells the Soul what to do, expecting the Soul to relay this information request to the Body) but the Body, many times, is not ready or prepared to act in accordance with the wish or command of the Spirit, by giving or offering it to the Soul for the Spirit.

There is a rule, that the Spirit, cannot give to the Body righteous things it didnt receives from the Soul. Hmm, I perceive someone's going to trip at this point, so OK, here is the clarification to ward off any confusion:
The Soul passes on all righteous things it receives from the Body, if the seed is able to bear fruit and is meaningful when the Spirit receives it, the Spirit, will then fertilise the ''seed'' and return it back to the Body, via the Soul, bumper harvest fruitfully. Call it positive and welcome payback, if you like.

So, in effect, the Soul feeds the Spirit, and the Soul receives from the Spirit, to feed the Body. This is the reason, why if your mind (i.e. Soul) doesnt understand something OR anything, it would be unable to interpret, to then, successfully feed the Spirit or the Body.

blueAgent, do you ever recoil back, when watching something gruesome happening in real life or maybe just on a TV screen slash internet, as in, like in a horror film or something? If you do, well that's your spirit, as in your spirit-man, not wanting to be needlessly grieved. Sometimes, you have to protect the gateway to your spirit-man because you might not necessarily want to relive or remember that moment, so you block any avenue, contact or link to that thing happening or going on at that moment of time. What is happening here, is you preventing your spirit-man from being fed with junk. You are protecting your heart and shielding it from receiving and/or taking in from junk. You are blocking the faculties from transferring junk to the Soul via the heart.

"Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health,
even as thy soul prospereth"
- 3 John 1:2

As seen in 3 John 1:2 above, the Soul (i.e. the Mind (i.e. conscious and sub conscious) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions) tops it all. Of course, the ability of the Soul to prosper or be held back to any degree, is dependent on the Spirit, getting the right detail, at which to relay back to the Body via the Soul at a latter date, future or time, as and when needed.

This is another God design, quest for quality GIGO and QIQO system set-up. GIGO is an ancroymn for "Garbage in, Garbage out" and QIQO is an ancroymn for "Quality in, Quality out" If the Soul sends in shiit to the Spirit, the Soul gets shiit back from the Spirit. It just implies that bad input by the Soul will result in bad output in return, sent back from the Spirit to the Soul. Ultimately too, the Body, at the receiving end of it all, gets the flawed and nonsense input data from the Soul, this comes by nonsense output garbage obtained from the Spirit that originally and in first place was sent in from the Soul coming from one or more of the Body's faculties (e.g. eyes, ears, touch, mouth, smell)

"For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay."
- Psalm 16:10

blueAgent, you're too heavy to want to fall for my hand now, please dont. Biko, jor abeg. The soul of Jesus, not being left in Sheol, aka hell/hades, is King David's Psalm 16:10 prophecy being fulfilled. Everything written about Jesus, in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms were each and every one fulfilled, and so we have it that the soul of Jesus was not abandoned in Sheol nor His body decayed. Praise God. Alleluia.

Now, blueAgent, when our Lord Jesus Christ resurrected, He resurrected with a glorified body. Need I go on, need I say more, if not, then I rest my case then.

After the death of the Body, the Soul without God, without any affinity with God, cant achieve or have eternal life

I guess blueAgent that you'll agree that the devil and demons are souless, meaning they have no soul. Now, the reason why the devil and the demons are inredeemable is because of the fact that they have no souls. The devil and the demons, are not able to be saved, be improved, or be corrected because of the mere fact that they lack a soul. The devil and the demons, to start with, unlike human beings, havent got diddly squat souls to make better, to make more desirable, satisfactory and/or effective.

It's obvious you don't know what a Soul is.
If you have read my thread on this topic you would have saved yourself the stress and time you spent on writting this crap meaningless stuff you wrote here.

MuttleyLaff:
"Guard your heart above all else,
for it determines the course of your life
(i.e. for everything you do flows from the heart)"
- Proverbs 4:23

"The good man brings good things out of the good treasure of his heart,
and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil treasure of his heart.
For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks"
- Luke 6:45

blueAgent, I am 110% sure you'll agree and accept that, it is the Soul that is saved even Ezekiel 18:20 emphatically states that: "The soul that sinneth, it shall die.", it doesnt say its the Body or the Spirit. Now, the heart is used by the Soul but the heart definitely is not the Spirit

Let me slip this bit in, first, as a preamble. Proverbs 4:23 and Luke 6:45 above, informs us that, it's out of the abundance of the heart first, then processed in the brain or mind, before the mouth speaks. All evil intents comes forth out of the heart, as in, the heart housed in the human Body. Mark 7:21-22, paints a picture of the heart with the following: "For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness" and Jeremiah 17:9 doesnt paint the heart in good light either, as it says: "The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?"

Incidentally, the verse, Psalms 51:10, informatively tells us, that the heart is linked with the mind, which is part of the Soul. The same Soul or psyche uses the heart as an outlet, to pass out or pass in things, from the Body and/or Spirit via the heart in the Soul. I'll soon below explain how it does this and/or how this works

What is man?
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
- Genesis 2:7

"For the Spirit of God has made me,
and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."
- Job 33:4

Man is a spirit being, residing or housed in a Body and possessing a Soul (i.e. a psyche). In fact, Man is made up of Body, Soul and Spirit. As a matter of fact, the Soul or psyche, has the Body and Spirit on each opposite sides of it. In a nutshell, Man essentially, is a spirit being with a Soul, housed, encapsulated, and/or wrapped up, in a human being body suit.

Genesis 2:7 and Job 33:4 above, informs us, its "ruach" the Spirit from God and "neshamah" that keeps the human body animated.

Now blueAgent, please dont try to mix up "ruach" and "neshamah" with ordinary and/or commonplace spirits, as in meaning, dont try to mix up the Spirit of God and the breath or wind of God, with extraterrestrial beings, which is what evil and good spirits are.

Fyi, "ruach", in Hebrew, with its corresponding Greek word "pneuma" essentially and in an almost oversimplified way means force. It is breath, wind, spirit of God, all rolled in as one thing. It in a sense, is the invisible force or power of God, hence why being perceived as a Spirit, so yes, "ruach" is the Spirit of God. In fact you wont wrong in saying that "ruach" or "Ha Ruach Ha Kodesh" is the Holy Spirit, as in, the Spirit of God.

You can see both "ruach" and "neshamah" being interplayed in the creation of man from Genesis 2:7 reproduced above, and as a witness plus as a supporting verse, Job 33:4 you see reproduced above, confirms, by testifying, that, its "ruach" that made man and it is "neshamah" that gives man life

"Neshamah", incidentally, is actually derived from another Hebrew word called "nasham" that means to pant and/or blow away with air, now, when the spirit, as in, meaning, "neshamah", the breath, returns back to God, the Body slumps and the Soul goes into comatose. This looks and feels, similar to a TV animated cartoon changed and turned into a cartoon strip character, on a comic book or magazine paper. TV animated cartoon characters moves, but cartoon strip character, on a comic book or magazine paper dont move like animated cartoon characters watched on TV screens. For the life of the body is in the blood and the life of the soul is in the spirit. When the spirit leaves the body, it returns back to God, leaving the body inanimate, meaning leaves it motionless and lifeless, as in, without life or no more with life. Ecclesiastes 12:7

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."
- Ecclesiastes 12:7

Now, moving further on, the Spirit and Soul have different faculties, where the faculties of the spirit, comprises of Fellowship, Conscience, Discernment or Intuition, while the faculties of the Soul are made up of the Mind (i.e. consciousness and sub consciousness) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions. The Body is not left out, it has 5 faculties of senses, and these are, sight, as in to see via the eyes, hearing, as in hear via the ears, touch, as in, feel via applicable part of the body, smell, as in, perceive via the nose and last but not the least, taste, as in, sense with the mouth.

The Body is worldly conscious and relates to the environment and its surroundings, the Soul is self conscious and relates to self & other people and the Spirit is God conscious and relates to God. After the death of the Body, the Soul without God, without any affinity with God, cant achieve or have eternal life

Now, remember blueAgent, that your question was: "What do I think is the Soul?" Well, my intro response is, the Soul, biblically speaking, is the most important existence of Man and that is why the battle is and always has been about and over the Soul. All attacks, are ultimately targeted at and for the Soul. Now, getting started proper, the Soul is the first medium key component of Man created by God and Man is tickled and accessed through this same Soul, by way of the Body and Spirit. The Soul, as a matter of fact and in effect, is the mediator between the Body and Spirit. The Soul uses the heart, as the point from where issues are sent out and/or distributed from.

Let me elaborate and explain a bit how everything works, the different faculties in the Soul waits, to pick up signals coming from the relevant and/or applicable faculties in the Body and the Spirit. This crucial bit of information here, is very important to grasp, and it is that, the Soul receives from the Body and deposits into the Spirit. Whatever the Body reads or sees via the eyes, hears via the ears, feels via applicable part of the body, smells via the nose and talks or tastes via the mouth is picked up by the Soul and deposited into the Spirit. The Spirit then, upon receiving these things from the Soul, has to deal with or process what the Soul has deposited into the Spirit's laps.

Fya blueAgent, please note, anywhere in the post you see "Spirit", unless it is stated otherwise, take it, to mean, as in, spirit-man, and not the Holy Spirit or Spirit of God. Thank you

Now, this here, is why regulation is very important. It is why we ought to control and oversee what the Soul is picking up from or what it is picking up with the senses. If you have to by all means, eat the chicken or fish, then its necessary to know when and how to spit out the bones, or if it's straw to eat, then know when and how to spit out the sticks, alternatively, if it's liquor to drink, and you cant hold it down so you don't throw it up, then know how or when to stay away from the liquor. Caveat emptor clause #1 done.

The devil has no power over anyone, except if such person, is in the dark, dabbling in the dark or is ignorant, so I'll advise the curious to distance themselves from dabbling into the dark, to save themselves from misery, but if hellbent on dining with the devil, then make sure you've got a long spoon to dine and eat with. Caveat emptor clause #2 done.

Resuming and back on track, now, if the Soul picks up an interaction, info, instruction, message, communication, issue etcetera from the Body, it cant interpret, then the deposit the Soul received from the Body and put into the Spirit will be unfruitful then (i.e. remember the red emboldened above hmm?) The thing here, is that, the Spirit, by the God design, knows what it expects from the Soul for positive fruition to be possible but the Soul has received from the Body something it doesnt via the Mind or Intellect understand or know about. Wahala don begin to gas be dat ooo. Now, just as in the physical, when the stomach growls, making noises for food, when nourishing is long overdue, so it is spiritually, the Spirit, intercedes for us through wordless and noiseless groans for substances necessary for growth, health and good condition

The Soul, as a conduit, a vent hole determines what the Spirit receives, but if the Soul is transferring the wrong expectations (e.g. like not praying right, not asking right, not the will of God etctera) then the Spirit, does the wordless groans. It does this because the spirit-man knows what should be prayed for, so it becomes restless with wordless groans, when the expectation(s) is not forthcoming or not in sight. The Spirit, as in, the spirit-man, is like saying: Hey Mr Soul, where are the goods I am expecting, please dont feed me with trash, junk and any of all these ungodly razzmatazz stuffs. So since the Spirit, is capable of asking and telling the Soul what it needs, the Soul just has to return back to the Body to honour the request and be asking the Body for correct or "kosher" stuff and not the crap its received

Now, if it is one of those classic cases of the Spirit, is willing BUT the Body is weak, then the Body many times will REFUSE the Soul the request of the Spirit, and here we have a typical case of struggle or power tussle going on in the Soul involving the Body and the Spirit
The Spirit , knows what it needs the Soul giving it from the Body (i.e. the Spirit tells the Soul what to do, expecting the Soul to relay this information request to the Body) but the Body, many times, is not ready or prepared to act in accordance with the wish or command of the Spirit, by giving or offering it to the Soul for the Spirit.

There is a rule, that the Spirit, cannot give to the Body righteous things it didnt receives from the Soul. Hmm, I perceive someone's going to trip at this point, so OK, here is the clarification to ward off any confusion:
The Soul passes on all righteous things it receives from the Body, if the seed is able to bear fruit and is meaningful when the Spirit receives it, the Spirit, will then fertilise the ''seed'' and return it back to the Body, via the Soul, bumper harvest fruitfully. Call it positive and welcome payback, if you like.

So, in effect, the Soul feeds the Spirit, and the Soul receives from the Spirit, to feed the Body. This is the reason, why if your mind (i.e. Soul) doesnt understand something OR anything, it would be unable to interpret, to then, successfully feed the Spirit or the Body.

blueAgent, do you ever recoil back, when watching something gruesome happening in real life or maybe just on a TV screen slash internet, as in, like in a horror film or something? If you do, well that's your spirit, as in your spirit-man, not wanting to be needlessly grieved. Sometimes, you have to protect the gateway to your spirit-man because you might not necessarily want to relive or remember that moment, so you block any avenue, contact or link to that thing happening or going on at that moment of time. What is happening here, is you preventing your spirit-man from being fed with junk. You are protecting your heart and shielding it from receiving and/or taking in from junk. You are blocking the faculties from transferring junk to the Soul via the heart.

"Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health,
even as thy soul prospereth"
- 3 John 1:2

As seen in 3 John 1:2 above, the Soul (i.e. the Mind (i.e. conscious and sub conscious) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions) tops it all. Of course, the ability of the Soul to prosper or be held back to any degree, is dependent on the Spirit, getting the right detail, at which to relay back to the Body via the Soul at a latter date, future or time, as and when needed.

This is another God design, quest for quality GIGO and QIQO system set-up. GIGO is an ancroymn for "Garbage in, Garbage out" and QIQO is an ancroymn for "Quality in, Quality out" If the Soul sends in shiit to the Spirit, the Soul gets shiit back from the Spirit. It just implies that bad input by the Soul will result in bad output in return, sent back from the Spirit to the Soul. Ultimately too, the Body, at the receiving end of it all, gets the flawed and nonsense input data from the Soul, this comes by nonsense output garbage obtained from the Spirit that originally and in first place was sent in from the Soul coming from one or more of the Body's faculties (e.g. eyes, ears, touch, mouth, smell)

"For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay."
- Psalm 16:10

blueAgent, you're too heavy to want to fall for my hand now, please dont. Biko, jor abeg. The soul of Jesus, not being left in Sheol, aka hell/hades, is King David's Psalm 16:10 prophecy being fulfilled. Everything written about Jesus, in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms were each and every one fulfilled, and so we have it that the soul of Jesus was not abandoned in Sheol nor His body decayed. Praise God. Alleluia.

Now, blueAgent, when our Lord Jesus Christ resurrected, He resurrected with a glorified body. Need I go on, need I say more, if not, then I rest my case then.

After the death of the Body, the Soul without God, without any affinity with God, cant achieve or have eternal life

I guess blueAgent that you'll agree that the devil and demons are souless, meaning they have no soul. Now, the reason why the devil and the demons are inredeemable is because of the fact that they have no souls. The devil and the demons, are not able to be saved, be improved, or be corrected because of the mere fact that they lack a soul. The devil and the demons, to start with, unlike human beings, havent got diddly squat souls to make better, to make more desirable, satisfactory and/or effective.

See Bible skills.

Your explanation is laughable it sounds like a child learning to read and think.

jcross19:
even the psalm you quoted said He takes away their spirit mean their spirits are still existing but with God while their flesh returned to the dust! You are just confused sir

Are you that Naive?
How does that explain or mean that the spirit taken by God are still existing?

Ihedinobi3:
...Continued from above...


So, the Lake of Fire is really Edom, not the planet Earth as you first surmised? Do I understand you correctly?

If you argue that it is not Edom, but the planet Earth, not only do we not have any biblical proof that this is so, but we also know that the Earth and the heavens are burned up before the Judgment of the Great White Throne, so how could that be where the unrighteous are burnt until they are consumed?

As I said above, it is hard to see how you are right in the face of Revelation 19:20 and 20:10. It seems quite obvious to me that the burning lasts much longer, and occurs after life. In fact, going by Matthew 25, the punishment is eternal, without any termination at all. It seems clear to me that it takes interpretive gymnastics and some rejection of clear statements in the Bible to hold the position that you do.

Your argument is making me sick, their is no direction or understanding to it.

I never said the lake of fire is Edom.
The purpose of mentioning Edom was to demonstrate the fact that the word forever although used in the bible in describing the destruction of Edom, it's says the smoke of Edom will ascend forever. but we know that Edom is not currently burning neither is there smoke ascending forever

This proves that the word forever does not necessarily mean something without end.


Hellfire is this Earth turned into Fire ball.

Zephaniah 1:18
Neither their silver nor their gold Will be able to deliver
them On the day of the LORD'S wrath; And all the
earth will be devoured In the fire of His jealousy, For
He will make a complete end, Indeed a terrifying one,
Of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Zephaniah 3:8
"Therefore wait for Me," declares the LORD, "For the
day when I rise up as a witness Indeed, My decision is
to gather nations, To assemble kingdoms, To pour out
on them My indignation, All My burning anger; For all
the earth will be devoured By the fire of My zeal.

2 Peter 3:11
Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way,
what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct
and godliness,

2 Peter 3:12
looking for and hastening the coming of the day of
God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed
by burning, and the elements will melt with intense
heat!
Vers


2 Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by
the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of
judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:10

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in
the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise,
and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth
also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Na Wah for him

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jcross19:
Revelation 14:11, talks about eternity punishment, if the spirit is not immortal why are they burning in the fire till eternity!

Is Sodom and Gomorrah still burning?

jerry447:
God bless u sir

Thank you Bro, and God bless you too.

MuttleyLaff:
I was about going to order a chilled bottle of orijin plus a truckload of kolanuts for you, but then you dropped a clanger next with the under below emboldened and/or underlined text.

Here is where you began to introduce your confusion and unawareness of facts.

I noticed it too, and your observation here, forced me to make the comment I've just done here.

... and your response and delivery as regards what "forever" means in the related verse(s) was spot on

I was enjoying and liking your each of your posts until when scrolling upwards, I bumped into you confusing yourself that already decayed and/or decomposed human being bodies will make heaven or the lake of fire,. You actually typed that its a lie that the Soul or spirit of man is what goes to Heaven or Hell. I balked at that point in time, and said to myself, blueAgent at this point, YOYO, as in meaning, blueAgent you're on your own, lol.

All the interested parties are after, is the soul of man. God is in the business of paid the price for human souls and the devil equally, is so much interested in human souls too, lol. It really somewhat looks like, it is a race to the end, for the souls of man, lol

Matthew 10:28 states "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." The "body in hell" in that verse applies to the bodies that havent gone through the state or process of rotting or decomposition and become dust, through the action of bacteria, fungi, ants etcetera, lol.

What do you think is the Soul?

and if what goes to Heaven or Hell is the soul then why do we have a resurrection?

jcross19:
spirit don't die , man in the bible mean flesh , flesh have due time on earth! now listen we are spirits but clothed with flesh. spirit don't die that's why God prepared everlasting fire. now that quotation is talking about spirit compared to mankind! tell me where devil will die!

Where in this Bible verses is there a hint that man is a spirit?

Genesis 3:19,
"In the sweat of face shalt thou eat bread,
till thou return unto the ground; for out of it
wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto
dust shalt thou return."

Psalms 103:13-14, KJV
"Like as a father pitieth his children, so the
LORD pitieth them that fear him. For he
knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we
are dust."

Psalm 104:29, KJV
"Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou
takest away their breath, they die, and return
to their dust."

Job 21:22-26, KJV
"Shall any teach God knowledge? seeing he
judgeth those that are high. One dieth in his
full strength, being wholly at ease and quiet.
His breasts are full of milk, and his bones are
moistened with marrow. And another dieth in
the bitterness of his soul, and never eateth
with pleasure. They shall lie down alike in the
dust, and the worms shall cover them."


Job 34:14-15, KJV
"If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto
himself his spirit and his breath; All flesh shall
perish together, and man shall turn again unto
dust."

kumulus:
Again I say, re-examine your submissions. Forever only means one, for ever! You gave examples like Samuel, Solomon's temple et all.....your narrative are quite misleading for the unsuspecting...... I'll only admonish you to preach the message of Christ. Blessings!
-Lloyd

I know that my message is in perfect order.

If you cannot explain to us why the word forever in certain examples in the Bible are not still taking place then we cannot take you serious.

Maximus69:
@bolded

Is the problem here Sir!

I have the feeling that you don't have discernment, you also feel the same towards me.
That's because we're both applying what we read in the Bible differently.
So what will justify the one who got it right?

Well Jesus said "when you SEE a tree bearing good fruit, know that it's a good tree because a good tree will never bear rotten fruit neither will a bad tree bear good fruit, every tree that's not bearing good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire" (to make firewood). Matthew 7:15-18

I've been applying what i read in the Bible to see if Jesus' words are true, because i'm sure that if it's true in this time when the world power (America) have declared freedom of speech expression and worship, nothing supposed to hinder Jesus' true followers from operation.
We all read in the Bible how the Jews fought dirty to silence them in the first century under the control of the Roman colony.
Now that the world power of today declared freedom for worship, true Christians should be RECOGNISABLE in places where America's order is active.
So of all the religions claiming Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses are the group that's leading in all the activities peculiar to that of the first century Christians, and all the qualities Jesus talked about is becoming obvious in their midst!

I'm not saying they must be the group of Jesus, but what i will never accept is your assertion that despite the declaration of freedom of speech expression and worship, Jesus' true followers can't be IDENTIFIED!

NO i will never accept that!

You just need to present another better performing group because God's holy spirit will WORK in the midst of true Christians and all honest hearted observers will SEE the light amongst them ~Jesus. Matthew 5:14-16

I laugh at you, someone that cannot properly discern who Jesus is, is accusing another of lacking discernment.

The Bible is clear on this matter
The word of God is not open to individual interpretation especially on matters like the divinity or sonship of Jesus Christ on which the hope and eternity of humanity and the universe depends on.

jcross19:
spirit don't die , man in the bible mean flesh , flesh have due time on earth! now listen we are spirits but clothed with flesh. spirit don't die that's why God prepared everlasting fire. now that quotation is talking about spirit compared to mankind! tell me where devil will die!

Please show in this verse were man became a spirit ?


Genesis 2:7
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust
of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils
the breath of life; and man became a living
soul."

jcross19:
spirit don't die , man in the bible mean flesh , flesh have due time on earth! now listen we are spirits but clothed with flesh. spirit don't die that's why God prepared everlasting fire. now that quotation is talking about spirit compared to mankind! tell me where devil will die!

If Man's spirit can not die than Man has Immortality.

but that is not possible because only God has Immortality.and man is called mortal in the Bible meaning he can die.

Job 4:17
Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be
more pure than his maker?

The Devil can die because he is a created being who has a beginning and also an end.

His death was pronounced by God through prophet Ezekiel.



Ezekiel 28:11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

jcross19:
spirit don't die , man in the bible mean flesh , flesh have due time on earth! now listen we are spirits but clothed with flesh. spirit don't die that's why God prepared everlasting fire. now that quotation is talking about spirit compared to mankind! tell me where devil will die!

Crap.

Give me Bible verses and evidence not lay talk.




Psalm 104:29

Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled; thou takest away
their spirit, they cease to exist and return to their dust.

Job 34:14
If he set his heart upon man, if he gather
unto himself his spirit and his breath;

Job 4:18 Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly: 4:19 How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth? 4:20 They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding it. 4:21 Doth not their excellency which is in them go away? they die, even without wisdom.

jcross19:
Revelation 14:11, talks about eternity punishment, if the spirit is not immortal why are they burning in the fire till eternity!

Let me give an assignment.

Show one Bible verse that says the spirit of the wicked will be cast into Hell?

TATIME:
Of course Jehovah's Witnesses are the target of all dictators!

Most of our brothers were brutalized by the Nazi government in Germany, till today China is still persecuting Jehovah's Witnesses, Russia is presently dealing ruthlessly with our brothers, Croatia and some Arab nations are also not left out.
The main reason is because our brothers will not take up weapons of war in accord with the instruction from Jesus. Matthew 26:52
We will not participate in their political affairs. John 17:14-16
We will not join in ethnic conflicts and this is the means politicians instigate people against one another to achieve their goals.

There are other religions claiming Christians as well that are arrested or imprisoned too, but this once were disturbing the peace of the community by publicly declaring what the people in the community count as public nuisance.
Unlike Jehovah's Witnesses that can't be noticed, this religionists make noise in public places and buses claiming those who refuses to support them will burn in hellfire! Matthew 12:19

So the difference is clear. Jehovah's Witnesses have been criticized, persecuted, imprisoned and killed because they're not of the world! Matthew 10:20-22
The Love, Joy, Peace and so on is only enjoyed IN OUR MIDST! Matthew 7:15-17

Out there we are not expecting any of such from them but trouble because we are ready to die for our faith! John 16:33

This is not a substitute for the word of God, when your church teach doctrines that are contrary to God's word, than they are not different from pagans and other religious groups.

It is not a matter of feeling or thought but true God's word been preached and practiced.

Maximus69:
So they can't connect themselves as one body and it's their dead that will BEAR WITNESS ABOUT JESUS? continue GUESSING Sir[/b]!

You fail to understand facts.

I have never been against love,peace and feeling good what I do not subscribe to is one change God's word to suit their doctrine, only to justify it by saying they have love,peace and big family( Church).

jcross19:
like I have said you are confused sir! edom was a city before but edom was wipe off the map, which is the fulfilment of that prophecy and that prophecy against edom have nothing to do with the book revelation sir .

It's obvious you did not understand what is been said.

Isaiah prophecised that Edom will be burnt with fire and the smoke will ascend forever.

If we take the ascend forever literally, that will make God a liar because we know that Edom is no longer burning neither is their smoke still ascending.

This verse parallels Rev 14:11 and like Isaiah 34:10 this verse should also not been taken literally because God also said that the fire of Hell will be put out after it destroyed all the wicked.

Isaiah 47:14

Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them;
they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the
flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit
before it.