₦airaland Forum

jcross19:
immortal mean to live forever right and you are telling us that Satan does not live forever ! do you really know why God created hell fire for those demons ? bible says eternal punishment mean everlasting , forever because spirit don't die.

Show me were it is written that Satan and spirits cannot die?

If Satan can live forever than he is equal with God which is impossible, because the Bible says that only, I repeat only God has Immortality.


1 Timothy 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

kumulus:
Bro you're confusing the lot....please re-examine your submissions.

How are you confused?

kumulus:
What's all this.....how does it apply to the post you're responding to.


Just this morning I saw somewhere someone admonishing Christians to pray for Death to die (lol) and not the devil. The intent of his message could be seen as viable but his submission failed.

What is there you don't understand?

Someone asked me how the word forever is applied in the Bible and I gave him examples of incidents were forever was applied but not in a literal sense.

Ihedinobi3:
Alright. I have further questions.

1. What is a soul? I have in mind Genesis 2:7 in asking you that. If Genesis 2:7 is true, and if Ecclesiastes 12:7 is too, then why do you hold that the death of the soul means that the spirit ceases to exist? If it ceases to exist, then how does it return to God Who is said to have given it? Also, why does Hebrews 12:23 say that we have come to the heavenly Jerusalem where there are spirits of righteous men who have been made perfect if the spirit ceases to exist after death? Why also do we see the "souls" of the martyrs at the foot of the altar in Heaven in Revelation 6:9 if the death of souls means that the person ceases to exist?

2. How do we know which "forever" is meant when we read "forever" in the Bible? For example, when Hebrews 13:8 says that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever, how can we tell which forever is meant there?

3. When Revelation 14:10-11 says that those who take the mark of the beast will be tormented in fire and brimstone, such that the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, how do we know which "forever" is meant here? Also, when is this torment happening? Is it while they are still alive on Earth? How can you tell?

The Smoke of Their Torment
1. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and
ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship
the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark
of his name. Revelation 14:11
Here is another interesting note: "The smoke of their torment
ascendeth up for ever and ever", from Revelation 14:11
obviously comes from Isaiah 34:10. It is the description of the
destruction and desolation of Edom. Most of the book of
Revelation actually is connected with the Old Testament.
1. It shall not be quenched night or day; Its smoke
shall ascend forever . From generation to generation it
shall lie waste; No one shall pass through it forever
and ever . Isaiah 34:10
It is clear that Isaiah was not saying that the smoke would be
ascending forever since he also says that the land would then
become a waste for generations. He says that it would be a
place that only wild animals would inhabit. The animals
would take over the land.
1. But the pelican and the porcupine shall possess it,
Also the owl and the raven shall dwell in it. And He shall
stretch out over it The line of confusion and the stones of
emptiness.
2. They shall call its nobles to the kingdom, But none
shall be there, and all its princes shall be nothing.
3. And thorns shall come up in its palaces, Nettles and
brambles in its fortresses; It shall be a habitation of
jackals, A courtyard for ostriches.
4. The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with
the jackals, And the wild goat shall bleat to its
companion; Also the night creature shall rest there, And
find for herself a place of rest.
5. There the arrow snake shall make her nest and lay
eggs And hatch, and gather them under her shadow;
There also shall the hawks be gathered, Every one with
her mate. Isaiah 34:11-15
The description of the smoke, is only a temporary action.
Once the smoke is gone, then the animals take over. So, this
text really speaks of complete destruction, not that the smoke
would be forever rising, but that it would become a wasteland.
The fire would do its job and then nothing would be left. If the
area would be forever burning and smokey, the wild animals
would never inhabit the area. Animals run away from smoke
and fire.
The destruction of Edom matches the destruction of the
wicked at the end. They will also vanish away once the fire
does its job of destroying the wicked.
20. But the wicked shall perish; And the enemies of
the LORD , Like the splendor of the meadows, shall
vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away . Psalm 37:
20.
So in this case the word " forever", only means for as long as
Edom burned. And in Revelation, "forever" only means for as
long as the wicked burn. The fire will not be quenched until
everything is burned up.

Ihedinobi3:
Alright. I have further questions.

1. What is a soul? I have in mind Genesis 2:7 in asking you that. If Genesis 2:7 is true, and if Ecclesiastes 12:7 is too, then why do you hold that the death of the soul means that the spirit ceases to exist? If it ceases to exist, then how does it return to God Who is said to have given it? Also, why does Hebrews 12:23 say that we have come to the heavenly Jerusalem where there are spirits of righteous men who have been made perfect if the spirit ceases to exist after death? Why also do we see the "souls" of the martyrs at the foot of the altar in Heaven in Revelation 6:9 if the death of souls means that the person ceases to exist?

2. How do we know which "forever" is meant when we read "forever" in the Bible? For example, when Hebrews 13:8 says that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever, how can we tell which forever is meant there?

3. When Revelation 14:10-11 says that those who take the mark of the beast will be tormented in fire and brimstone, such that the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, how do we know which "forever" is meant here? Also, when is this torment happening? Is it while they are still alive on Earth? How can you tell?

The torment will happen at the end of the World when Christ returns to judge man.
It will happen here on Earth, the Hellfire talked about in the Bible is the Earth envloped in fire.


2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.




The torment will happen at the end of the World when Christ returns to judge man.
It will happen here on Earth, the Hellfire talked about in the Bible is the Earth envloped in fire.


2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Ihedinobi3:
Alright. I have further questions.

1. What is a soul? I have in mind Genesis 2:7 in asking you that. If Genesis 2:7 is true, and if Ecclesiastes 12:7 is too, then why do you hold that the death of the soul means that the spirit ceases to exist? If it ceases to exist, then how does it return to God Who is said to have given it? Also, why does Hebrews 12:23 say that we have come to the heavenly Jerusalem where there are spirits of righteous men who have been made perfect if the spirit ceases to exist after death? Why also do we see the "souls" of the martyrs at the foot of the altar in Heaven in Revelation 6:9 if the death of souls means that the person ceases to exist?

2. How do we know which "forever" is meant when we read "forever" in the Bible? For example, when Hebrews 13:8 says that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever, how can we tell which forever is meant there?

3. When Revelation 14:10-11 says that those who take the mark of the beast will be tormented in fire and brimstone, such that the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, how do we know which "forever" is meant here? Also, when is this torment happening? Is it while they are still alive on Earth? How can you tell?

What Does "For Ever and Ever" Mean?
In general, the Greek word aion is translated: forever. However
its real meaning is "Age ". There are actually two meanings for
the word " Age"
1. "Age " can mean a human lifetime, or life itself. So it
can be a limited time, as long as someone is going to
live.
2. "Age " can also mean an unbroken age, perpetuity of
time, or an eternity. So it can mean forever and ever.
Basically, if the subject is God or Jesus, since they exist in
eternity, the meaning of "Age " would be an unbroken age, or
an eternity. On the other hand, if the subject is referring to
finite human beings, then the meaning of "Age " would be
limited to the life-span of a human lifetime.
In the Greek New Testament, "Age " almost always refers to the
subject of Jesus or God. Since He lives forever, the time that
is meant is forever or for an eternity. However in the Old
Testament, we have many examples where forever only
means the life-time of an individual. The Hebrew language can
have the same two meanings. Here is an example, in Old
Testament Hebrew, where forever only means how long a
person will live.


Most of the book of Revelation where in written in symbolic pattern the cannot be taken or understood literally.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

This verse expresses God's just nature , the purpose of this verse is to convey the message that God still remembers and would reward those who died for his name.
The Alter symbolizes their faith and salvation.

If we take this verse literally it will contracdicts many other Bible verses and the word of God. because God's word says that the dead know nothing, it also says that the dead cannot praise God.
If this saints were alive why can't they praise God?

Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

The Bible calls death a sleep, just like one doesn't know anything happening around him when sleeping so also one who is dead.

The bible says that Stephen the first martyrs fell asleep (died).

Acts 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Luke 8:52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth. John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Acts 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Ephesians 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Thessalonians 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

1 Corinthians 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Ihedinobi3:
Alright. I have further questions.

1. What is a soul? I have in mind Genesis 2:7 in asking you that. If Genesis 2:7 is true, and if Ecclesiastes 12:7 is too, then why do you hold that the death of the soul means that the spirit ceases to exist? If it ceases to exist, then how does it return to God Who is said to have given it? Also, why does Hebrews 12:23 say that we have come to the heavenly Jerusalem where there are spirits of righteous men who have been made perfect if the spirit ceases to exist after death? Why also do we see the "souls" of the martyrs at the foot of the altar in Heaven in Revelation 6:9 if the death of souls means that the person ceases to exist?

2. How do we know which "forever" is meant when we read "forever" in the Bible? For example, when Hebrews 13:8 says that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever, how can we tell which forever is meant there?

3. When Revelation 14:10-11 says that those who take the mark of the beast will be tormented in fire and brimstone, such that the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, how do we know which "forever" is meant here? Also, when is this torment happening? Is it while they are still alive on Earth? How can you tell?

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Like I said before the word Forever when applied in the Bible does not mean something without except in some cases where the conditions permit it to be taken literally.
E.g Jesus is the Son of God and has God's nature which includes Immortality and been unchangable so when we say Jesus is the same today tommorow and forever the word forever means what it says, that is Jesus can never change.

2nd example.

In this example the word forever cannot be taken literally.

1. If your brother, a Hebrew man, or a Hebrew woman,
is sold to you and serves you six years, then in the
seventh year you shall let him go free from you.
2. And when you send him away free from you, you
shall not let him go away empty-handed;
3. you shall supply him liberally from your flock, from
your threshing floor, and from your winepress. From what
the LORD has blessed you with, you shall give to him.
4. You shall remember that you were a slave in the land
of Egypt, and the LORD your God redeemed you;
therefore I command you this thing today.
5. And if it happens that he says to you, 'I will not go
away from you,' because he loves you and your house,
since he prospers with you,
6. then you shall take an awl and thrust it through his
ear to the door, and he shall be your servant forever.
Also to your female servant you shall do likewise.
Deuteronomy 15:12-17
Obviously, the person can only be a servant for as long as he
or she lives. He or she does not live for eternity. So forever
means only his or her life-time.

3rd example.
Jonah while praying to God.

Jonah 2:5 The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head. 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
Here the word forever meant only 3days so it cannot be translated to mean without end.

Ihedinobi3:
Alright. I have further questions.

1. What is a soul? I have in mind Genesis 2:7 in asking you that. If Genesis 2:7 is true, and if Ecclesiastes 12:7 is too, then why do you hold that the death of the soul means that the spirit ceases to exist? If it ceases to exist, then how does it return to God Who is said to have given it? Also, why does Hebrews 12:23 say that we have come to the heavenly Jerusalem where there are spirits of righteous men who have been made perfect if the spirit ceases to exist after death? Why also do we see the "souls" of the martyrs at the foot of the altar in Heaven in Revelation 6:9 if the death of souls means that the person ceases to exist?

2. How do we know which "forever" is meant when we read "forever" in the Bible? For example, when Hebrews 13:8 says that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever, how can we tell which forever is meant there?

3. When Revelation 14:10-11 says that those who take the mark of the beast will be tormented in fire and brimstone, such that the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, how do we know which "forever" is meant here? Also, when is this torment happening? Is it while they are still alive on Earth? How can you tell?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

When someone dies the body turns to dust while the spirit which is the breathe from a God returns to him is a simple as that we don't need to over emphasis it or speculate on how it happens.
What we know is that God can take and would take back the breathe or his spirit when a person dies.
The spirit does not exist independently it comes from God as a thoughtless force which powers the body to become a soul.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.



Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

First you need to understand that the word Spirit when used in the Bible can mean 3different things *Which are a living being like God,Angels,
*It can mean the mind,will,thought, zeal, imagination.
*It can also mean life or breathe.
depending on the context in which it is applied.

In Hebrews 12:23 considering the context in which it is applied we can confidently say that the Bible verse is referring to the mind and thoughts of the just men.
The Bible verse did not say that this men or their spirit were in Heaven but that they had a their names or testimony written in Heaven.

Here is another clue.

Hebrews 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Maximus69:
Wow! Wow!! Wow!!!

How come you quoted that yet you're still blinded to the fact Jesus was emphasizing there?

Of course Noah and all those saved because they gathered TOGETHER both in body and heart, they were working TOGETHER as one body, observers back then knew them to be ONE family, they all entered the ark TOGETHER the same day!

So let's view you,your folks and compare with JWs, then try to visualize what happened during Noah's time!

Certainly there were many people who were also troubled by the giants disrupting the PEACE on earth back then. But why didn't they enter into the ARK?

Because each person keep preaching his own righteousness to himself without TAKING NOTE of the progressive advancement of what the family of eight have ACHIEVED! Matthew 24:39

God is about to destroy the wicked and what most of them were saying is "i'm not evil, so God can't destroy me simply because i didn't JOIN Noah, his family and those beasts in that woody building"

That's what i've been trying to tell you all these while. You have seen how Jehovah's Witnesses have gathered millions of people into one big happy family of peace loving organization! Isaiah 2:1-4

And you have read that after the destruction of this wicked world, a multitude of people will remain because they've worked together to cleanse themselves from all the blemish of this wicked generation. Revelations 7:9-17

And all you could say now is "their teaching is contrary to God's word" when you can't find any other group of people practicing what you expected!

So what is the difference between you and those who REFUSED to JOIN Noah and those eight souls in the ark?

Remember, what each of them was busy doing is justifying themselves and saying "God won't destroy me and save ONLY Noah and his family"!

My friend, use your brains!

You are really confused.
What made Noah to be selected by God is it that he was walking in love and feeling good with his family or that he was faithful to God's word?

So the reason for JW to be God's people is that they are happy and show love? You are unbealivable.



You are the one justifying yourself claiming that you are good in your own eyes rather than to judge yourself from the eyes of God which is the word of God.


here The Bible gives us an insight of those who will inherit God's kingdom and unfortunately it did not say it will be peace loving and feeling good people, Nope but people who honour the word of God and his commandments.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rather than be in peace,love and feeling good those who fellow and honour God's word will be persecuted and killed. I guess this disqualifies you and JW.

Maximus69:
T A T I M E!
T A T I M E!!
T A T I M E!!!

Just imagine the simplicity and straightforwardness in that!

Well Mr blueAgent, my brother have spoken it all!

You are only expressing your feelings not facts and logic.
What is important is God's word and view not population or feeling.

Mind you God's word did not say that those who follow his true doctrine or word will be the majority, just like in the time of Noah that the majority were feeling good and happy but only Noah and 8 souls were saved so also it will be on our time.


Matthew 24:38
For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and
drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day
that Noah entered the ark,

ezeonline2:
Thank you. I will be patiently waiting.

In case you have any more doubts or questions, am at your service.

ezeonline2:
Thank you.
I will be patiently waiting.

I have taken time to breakdown the answers and facts of this topic in a way that will help you understand it better.

For you to properly understand this topic or issue you need to know or understand some key points or facts.
1.What is Man?
Man is a living Soul who possess a spirit which is the breathe of life or the mind or will of a man.
Man(living Soul)= body(dust)+Spirit(life force from God).

Job 34:15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Ecclesiastes 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it. Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.



2.what is the state of the dead?
Contrary to popular teachings on the dead the truth remains that the dead know nothing.
death is called a sleep by God.

Psalms 76:6 At thy rebuke, O God of Jacob, both the chariot and horse are cast into a dead sleep.
Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

Ecclesiastes 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecclesiastes 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.


3. When is man rewarded is it immediately after death or when Christ comes.the Ans is when Christ comes which is at the end of the World.
Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Even David has not gone to Heaven yet.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

4. No one goes to Heaven or Hell till after the day of Judgement.

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Even Satan and his Angels are kept for that judgement day.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

5: What do the dead do in the grave?
The Ans is they do nothing, they just sleep, they are reserved their waiting for the day of Judgement.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


Job 21:30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

ezeonline2:
Baba I need to be enlightened.

So you mean after death that's all? How about eternity? If the spirit of a man dies with him then what is heaven and hell all about?

Lastly sir the Bible says that it's appointed for a man to die one after which, judgement. To my understanding that portion of the Bible is saying that our spirit will be judged, which means it will be forever.
Thank you

On what goes to Heaven or Hell

Paul is taught the early Christains that the only hope or reward of those who died in Christ was the resurrection of the dead in Christ. this proves that neither any soul or spirit is rewarded at death but the body.

1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.


Thessalonians 4:16 ►
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a
shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump
of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up
together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:
and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

2nd evidence.
The dead will be resurrected and the body of the just will be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.


Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Ephesians 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 1 Thessalonians 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

3rd evidence.

Jesus was the one who earned Immortality for us, and without him we cannot have it.
Now ask yourself if man's soul or spirit has Immortality inherently then why would Jesus die inorder to give us what we already have?


2 Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

4th evidence.

Christ taught his disciples that there will be great pain and ganshing of teeth in Hell this means it is the body that will be punished.

Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

We know that spirits do not have bone or teeth.

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

TATIME:
I think the FEEL GOOD matters a lot.

Considering past events involving servants of God in Bible times, the feeling of JOY serves as a sign that someone's worship has divine approval while bitterness is peculiar to feelings of rejection.
If we read the account at Genesis chapter 4 from verse 3~9, there we see two brothers from the same parents, after one has discovered that God accepted his brother's worship but rejected his own he was bitter towards his brother until he got him killed!
In my own opinion i think if your worship has gained divine approval you need not feel BITTER towards anyone since you can't force them to join you but inwardly you'll FEEL the inner JOY and SATISFACTION, perhaps that's why JOY and PEACE were listed as part of the effects of God's holy spirit in pure worship! Galatians 5:22
A discussion that's based on transparency and sincerity between two persons having DIFFERENT opinions regarding worshiping the true God must surely lead to disagreement!
While the one on God's side will walk away with JOY and PEACE of mind, the one whose worship is not approved will become BITTER!
This is normal because everyone wants to feel happy with God on their side, in fact that's why Jesus sent his followers to speak with individuals one on one so that after you've noticed that the other person have what it takes to be happy you will like to join him!
Please let's not feel bitter towards anyone handling God's word, so far they're reading and meditating on what they're reading they'll FEEL the need to join those serving God with LOVE, JOY and PEACE of mind!

Am not disputing the fact that there will be love, and peace of mind among those that serve God.
What am emphasising is that nothing should be put above God's word not even our comfort.

FrLukas:
What is false?

That one can Re-incarnate

ezeonline2:
Baba I need to be enlightened.

So you mean after death that's all? How about eternity? If the spirit of a man dies with him then what is heaven and hell all about?

Lastly sir the Bible says that it's appointed for a man to die one after which, judgement. To my understanding that portion of the Bible is saying that our spirit will be judged, which means it will be forever.
Thank you

Heaven or Hell is real.
What I wrote and mean is that Man does not have Immortality inherently as taught by preachers, rather according to the word of God man can only gain Immortality through faith and trust in Christ the son of God.
Man's spirit which can mean his thoughts,will, zeal,mind or the breathe of God in his nostrils does not live after a man dies.

the spirit or breathe from God is a force like electricity, it only powers the body just like electricity powers a radio or TV set. but it cannot exist independently on it's own just like electricity on it's own cannot think,reason,eat or do anything except to power an appliance.

I understand your confusion you seem to believe the lie that the Soul or spirit of man is what goes to Heaven or Hell.

That's not true, all this false teachings were brought into Christaintity by pagans.

The truth is, it is our bodies that go to Heaven or Hell and not some imaginary soul or spirit.

I will take time to explain all.

Ihedinobi3:
Let me spell it out again then:

I don't see how what you said agrees with those passages. Can you explain how it does?

The word forever in the Bible does not always mean something without end.

For example the word "forever" has been used 56times in the Bible to refer to things that has already ended.

E.g God said of the Temple that Solomon built, “‘For now I
have chosen and sanctified this house, that My name may be
there forever; and My eyes and My heart will be there
perpetually'” (2 Chronicles 7:16). However, because of the sins
of Israel and then Judah, God caused this Temple to be
destroyed! (Compare 2 Chronicles 36:15-21).
When studying the concept of “forever” in context, we see a
variety of intended meanings. The word can express a never-
ending condition or situation, but it can also refer to a certain
limited period of time, based on the life of the parties involved
and also dependent on relevant conditions.

The mother of Samuel is quoted: “But Hannah did not go up, for she said to her husband, ‘Not until the child is weaned; then I will take him, that he may appear before the LORD and REMAIN THERE FOREVER'” (1 Samuel 1:22). But we know that Samuel died– that he is not NOW still before the LORD! (Compare 1 Samuel
25:1).


in Exodus 21:6: “‘then his
master shall bring him to the judges, He shall also bring him
to the door, or to the doorpost, and his master shall pierce his
ear with an awl, AND HE SHALL SERVE HIM
FOREVER'” (Compare Deuteronomy 15:17).
Does this verse mean that a servant in this circumstance will
continue serving the same master for all of eternity? Obviously
not, as both the servant and his master eventually died! The
word translated here in Exodus 21 as “forever” is the same
Hebrew word “owlam” that we have already seen used in
earlier examples about living forever.

[quote author=engrchykae post=84064895]I dont discuss freedom with happy slaves,swerve[/quote


Am not in bondage, if you want freedom start with your kinsmen they are your problem not the white man.

Ihedinobi3:
Let me spell it out again then:

I don't see how what you said agrees with those passages. Can you explain how it does?

Ok.

Thats why I said we must allow the Bible to explain itself.

The same Bible you quoted those Bible verses from also tells us that the Soul can die.
THE SOUL THAT SINS SHALL DIE
Ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of
the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the
soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezek 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

It also tells us that the wicked will perish and be destroyed.

Psalm 37:38
But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of
the wicked shall be cut off.


Psalm 37:20
But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD
shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke
shall they consume away.

We are also told that they shall be turned to ashes like Sodom and Gomorrah.

Malachi 4:3
And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes
under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this,
saith the LORD of hosts.


2 Peter 2:6
And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes
condemned them with an overthrow, making them an
ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

We are also told that the Devil/Satan who is the originator of Sin will be turned to ashes.


Ezekiel 28:18
By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.
19
All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.’”

We are also told that those who do not receive Jesus will face the second death.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first
resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but
they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with
Him for a thousand years.


Finally note that the wages of sin is death.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life
through Jesus Christ our Lord.

engrchykae:
without Africa, Britain and France won't be any better than Greece and Bulgaria.
They would be needing aid from Libya.

Clown you just exposed your naviety.

What did you give them that made them great?

You forget that those same countries controlled Asia, North and South America.

drezzyx:
He should've willingly submitted himself for money ritual to his family since he wanted to die by all means since no one can talk him out of it.

I hate it when people commits suicide if only he knows what average Nigerian pass through everyday including me, but I refused to give up .
Believing in faith and hope that my helper will locate me one day.

Suicide is never a solution, for those contemplating or planning how to eliminate themselves pls stay strong .
Your blessing must surely come.

Abi!!!!

engrchykae:
slave

Clown, without Europe you will still be in the forest with bone passed through your nose. Bushman.

SachaBastien:
The average Blackman is a crybaby. These black players are drawing fire to themselves and others and gradually changing the definition of the word racism to reflect on only black people.
Black people cry about racism, imperialism and Zionism. They have nothing of their own and the cesspool of all the shit in the world ends up in their mouths. #NoOneCaresAboutBlackPeople.

I Concur.

We blacks will be better off if we are serious about ourselves and hold ourselves accountable especially our leaders the way we take other races serious when it comes to the issue of race.

FrLukas:
I believe that human souls reincarnate several times. It is clearly stated many times in the Bible.

That's false.

https://www.nairaland.com/5520177/man-satan-immortality

Ihedinobi3:
I certainly agree that when the Bible interprets itself, the Truth becomes clear.

As for what I'm insinuating, it is that you are ignoring those passages in your claims. If you're not, how do you explain them?

I still don't understand you, are you saying that the Soul cannot die or what?

engrchykae:
to be a colored person should be a thing of pride.
The white pigs are using reverse psychology on the King of God's creation,the Blackman and we are feeling bad.
Let me meet a racist white pig one on one.i will make him know his place in God's creation.
For God's sake why should a Blackman feel sad.
A strong being, physically and mentally.
A real man with a sex drive rivalled by only the dogs.
With a level of adaptability that is unequalled.
An African learns all the difficult languages of the world and even teaches them,this shows high level of intelligence.
You will find Europeans who can only speak their own mother tongue
Europe should go to hell.
Without Africa, Europe is poor.
Europe is even poor both in materials and human resources.
We keep dragging African players with Europe.
It's either we are dragging dele Ali, Tammy Abraham,timori, Carlton cole,fashanu with England.
Or the entire Africa is suffering from France stranglehold on African players.

If they are so better,why do they always can't survive without African players?
African man should emancipate himself from mental slavery and become King of the Eden

Dreamer.

Ihedinobi3:
Hello.

Why then does the Bible say the following?

14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
(KJV) Ecclesiastes 3:14

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
(KJV) Revelation 14:9-11

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever...14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(KJV) Revelation 20:10, 14-15

When we allow the Bible to interpret itself the truth and the word of God becomes clearer.
I would like you to explain in clearer terms what you are insinuating.

Maximus69:
Now it's clear you don't know a single thing about Christianity!

The bolded you mentioned are just propaganda of politicians to steal people's hearts, while the ones i mentioned are to make individuals responsible adults in the society! 2Timothy 3:16-17

No wonder you've been arguing blindly.
All what you mentioned could be staged by a politician seeking people's consent {2Samuel 16:1-6} whereas they don't have good intentions!

Neither Jesus nor his followers opened any charity organization. Their target is to prepare the minds of Christians for God's kingdom. They keep telling themselves that Satan is the ruler of this world so any charitable organization has what Satan plans to stage manage out of it.
For instance, the red cross is a charity organization by Catholic Church but instead of removing racial prejudice from the minds of their members, they pray for blessings on the weapons of WAR only for them to later start taking care of war casualties!

Sorry Sir you're still a kid when talking about divine wisdom!

You think your Church is the only one preparing the minds of people?


How are you preparing the minds of people, is it with wrong teachings and false doctrine?

Proverbs 16:25
There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end
thereof are the ways of death.

Any teaching or doctrine that contradicts God's word is not acceptable to God weather you believe it or not.

johnw47:
even if i was wanting to discuss that matter with someone it wouldn't be with you a mor-on

I hope you know the truth that Man and Satan do not have immortality?

Maximus69:
You have NO POINT Sir!

It's from your own ERRONEOUS mindset that you're thinking "it goes contrary"!

From all indication a powerful FORCE actuated a mighty spiritual army, made up of people from all races under the heavens, conquering throughout the earth, gathering obedient humans under one umbrella, and teaching them to be ;
Exemplary and Obedient Youths!
Responsibly Married men!
Quanlitative wives at home!
Zealous preachers in their neighborhood!
Humble and Peace loving citizens!
etc
And all you have to say is "their doctrine is contrary to God's word"!
Hellooooooo Sir, what else will serve as evidence if it's in line with God's word? Galatians 5:22-23 compared to Matthew 7:16-17

You are really lost . the same way you feel and praise your Church, JW is the same way a Catholic , a Latter day saints, Protestants or even the Hindu will praise and adore their own teachings but that does not make them right or true.



Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according
to this word, it is because there is no light in them.


◄ Proverbs 6:23
For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and
reproofs of instruction are the way of life:


Whatever the evidence is, if it is not backed by the word of God then it is not genuine no matter how serious or true the people might claim it to be.

All this evidence you claim are not percuilar to JW, infact some Churches have gone as far as opening free school, restaurants,free technical school, free commodation,and lots of charity work they are also involved in Evangelism and missionary work as well as many other evidence that exceed your Church own, yet they are not God's end time church because they lack the real truth about God's word.

Maximus69:
Everyone can SEE that Sir!

Since Jehovah's Witnesses are claiming that God's holy spirit is the ACTIVE FORCE of God and all others are saying it's another separate entity on it's own. Now you're claiming 'your faith is WORKING' when nobody can SEE the evidence anywhere. But Jehovah's Witnesses who are saying the holy spirit is God's active force are known globally for their preaching and teaching activities, both in developed, advanced countries and the underdeveloped remote areas of the earth, the same way with the same mindset and zealousness.
My friend, the point is clear Sir.
That's the one and only group having the ENERGY (God's holy spirit) WORKING in their midst. That's what's been sustaining that WORK Sir!

You still don't get the point. of what use is your Zealousness if it goes contrary to God's word and desire, do you think God would reward you for disobeying him?

2 Timothy 3:5-7 King James Version (KJV)
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof:
from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead
captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers
lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of
the truth.


When you are doing something aside God's design and plan it might look right to you but before God it is all vanity.

Maximus69:
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, you make me laugh sarcastically!

You can't separate ENERGY from WORKS, because energy means power and power is the ABILITY as in SUSTAINABILITY for WORK!

@bolded

Jehovah's Witnesses throughout the earth are vivid proof that my own Faith is WORKING Sir!

So it's you that's been ranting facelessly on social media, who needs to ;
point
present
show
name
tell
us how to SEE or EXAMINE your own faith Sir! James 2:18

You only end up confusing yourself the more.