₦airaland Forum

Janosky:
The Hebrew old testament says Jehovah begat Israel.... Bros "begat" is what it is -'begat'.
Jehovah begat the mountains.
Jehovah begat Israel.
Jehovah begat Jesus.
Bros, Jehovah CREATED them ALL.
Every life exists by creation
"Jesus Christ is "the first born of every creature", you garrit?
You are free to believe what you like Sha..
No qualms.
Shalom.

In addition to calling Ishmael "the son of the bondwoman",
God later referred to Isaac as Abraham's only son:
1. Then He said, "Take now your son, your only son
Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah,
and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the
mountains of which I shall tell you." Genesis 22:2
It is clear that God Himself recognized Isaac as being Abraham's only son. We also see that Paul chose to describe Isaac in the same way that God did. He did this by calling Isaac Abraham's only begotten son:
1. By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up
Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up
his only begotten son, Hebrews 11:17
So, Paul means what he is saying. Paul describes Isaac as
being Abraham's only begotten son because God Himself had
pronounced the same thing long before. Ishmael was only an
illegitimate seed and not a son.
This " unique" Argument is Only Made
to support the Trinity Doctrine
The example of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael is always
brought up as the basis for the argument that Jesus cannot
be the only-begotten Son of God. However, we have seen that
God Himself never calls Ishmael Abraham's son. Instead, He
calls Ishmael the son of the bondwoman but when God talks
to Abraham, He calls Isaac Abraham's only son (Genesis
22:2).
The only reason for having the argument, that "only-begotten "
means "unique " in the case of Jesus, is this: Theologians
want to do away with the understanding that Jesus actually is
the Son of God, that He came out of His Father, because it
goes against the doctrine of the Trinity.
Since they argue that Isaac was not Abraham's only son, they
then urge that Jesus cannot be God's only Son because the
same Greek word is used to describe both Jesus and Isaac.
There is no reason to resort to changing an obvious meaning
of a word. The most direct and obvious meaning of
"monogene " is ONLY-generated , only-begotten , Only-born ,
the sole or only begotten child . as we discussed earlier. It
does not mean "unique" at all. But it means "mono" = only
and " gene" = generated or begotten .
There are other examples of the "only-begotten" word that is
translated correctly and everyone agrees with the translation:
And when He came near the gate of the city, behold, a dead
man was being carried out, the only son of his mother; and
she was a widow. And a large crowd from the city was with her. Luke 7:12
for he had an only daughter about twelve years of age, and
she was dying. But as He went, the multitudes thronged Him.
Luke 8:42
Suddenly a man from the multitude cried out, saying,
"Teacher, I implore You, look on my son, for he is my only
child ". Luke 9:38
Since these examples describe normal family and human
existence; The begotten aspect of how the child came to be is
automatically assumed even by the reader. The "begotten"
meaning is an actual part of the sentence whether the word is
present or not. But in the case of Jesus, the begotten aspect
had to be spelled out to make it clear how Jesus began,
according to the actual meaning of the word.
In each of these three examples, it is an only-begotten son,
daughter, or child. The argument is never made by these
same theologians that it actually should be translated as a
unique son, daughter, or child. Only when the word is used in
connection with Jesus do they start to object!
So, the argument that Isaac is only a unique son, is definitely
not strong enough to warrant a change in our understanding
of a basic Greek word. The absurdity of this argument is
especially obvious when we consider that even God
considered Isaac to be Abraham's only son and He
pronounced him as such. Paul was only saying what God had
said long before!
The most obvious, direct, and simple meaning of the Greek
text, using the actual meaning of the words, tells us that
Jesus is indeed the only begotten Son of God! It is a very
simple translation and there is an obvious meaning to the
word! There is no mystery about it.
Their presupposition or assumption that the Trinity doctrine is
correct has forced them to make this poor argument. It is only
because of the Trinity doctrine that this debate is even tried as
an argument. They simply do not want Jesus to be the only-
begotten Son of God because He can not actually be begotten
within the Trinity concept.


A Small Study into the Greek
Word for "Only Begotten"
Let's look at an interlinear Bible to begin our search:
(This wonderful online interlinear Bible is found at: http://
www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh3.pdf )
In the Online Interlinear Bible we see that "monogene " means
ONLY-generated or only-begotten . So, we see that in the
verse, Jesus is described as the only begotten Son of God.
This is the most direct meaning of the text using the actual
meaning of the word.
Let's look into the words a bit more deeply:
Strongs # 3439
monogene mon-og-en-ace
- comes from
Strongs # 3441
"Mono " and
Strongs # 1096
"ginomai "
"Mono " which is often translated "alone" or "only ". The
Scriptural use of this word is very obvious. "Mono " is the
prefix for "one" or "only ". English examples would be:
mono chrome (one color), mono tone ( one tone) and
mono gamy (one spouse at one time).
"gene " comes from "ginomai " It is a prolongation and middle
voice form of a primary verb; ' to cause to be' (" gen"-erate) i.e.
reflexively to become (come into being)" (see The New
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, New Strong's
Concise Dictionary of the words in the Greek Testament, page
19).
So, "gene" can mean: come , become, made , fulfilled , be
(come), be ( brought to pass ).
When we put the words together " monogene " means: "the
only one that has come to pass " or, "the only one who has
been brought to pass " or " the only one to come into being".
"monogene " is also known to be associated within the context
of a birth. So when we see Strongs definition it makes good
sense:
In Strong's Concordance, #3439 "monogene " from 3441 and
1096; means Only-born , i.e. sole - only (begotten , child )
(James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D., The New Strong's Exhaustive
Concordance of the Bible, New Strong's Concise Dictionary of
the words in the Greek Testament, page 59)
In the Thayer's Lexicon, "monogene " means unigenitus, single
of its kind, or only . It is used of only sons or daughters when
viewed in relation to their parents . (Joseph Henry Thayer,
D.D., The New Thayer's Greek - English Lexicon of the New
Testament, page 417)
In the New Englishman's Greek Concordance, we can see
where "monogene " is found in the Bible and how it is used.
The New Englishman's Greek Concordance and Lexicon by
Jay P. Green, Sr., page 579)
Luke 7:12 - the only son of his mother,
Luke 8:42 - For he had one only daughter,
Luke 9:38 - for he is mine only child .
Heb 11:17 - (Abraham) . . .offered up his only begotten (son)
John 1:14 - as of the only begotten of the Father,
John 1:18 - the only begotten Son, which is
John 3:16 - his only begotten Son, that whosoever
John 3:18 - of the only begotten Son of God
1 John - 4:9 - God sent his only begotten Son
This agrees with what we saw from the Online Interlinear
Bible: ONLY-generated or only-begotten
So, it is clear what "monogene " actually means. It follows
what we found in both the Strongs Concordance and the
interlinear Bible I have above: ONLY-generated , only-
begotten , Only-born , the sole or only begotten child .
"monogene " is a well known Greek word. It is not rare and
vague; There is a simple meaning to the word. In the example
of Jesus, it is only because of the Trinity objection that this
debate is even tried as an argument, throwing the word into
question. As a result, they have tried to redefine the word to
something that would agree with the trinity doctrine.

Janosky:
Check your Bible from Genesis to Revelation,which spiritual beings has God always sent from heaven to fulfill his assignments on earth?
Who are the sons of God in heaven?
Who is designated to lead other sons of God to put an end to wickedness on earth?2thess1:7-9.

But No Angel ever received praise or worship or ever forgive sin but Jesus did.


1. But when He again brings the firstborn into the
world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship
Him ." Hebrews 1:6

Matthew 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. Matthew 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk? Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.



Then he said,
"Lord, I believe!"
And he worshiped
him (John 9:38

Janosky:
Check your Bible from Genesis to Revelation,which spiritual beings has God always sent from heaven to fulfill his assignments on earth?
Who are the sons of God in heaven?
Who is designated to lead other sons of God to put an end to wickedness on earth?2thess1:7-9.

But No Angel ever received praise or worship or ever forgive sin but Jesus did.


1. But when He again brings the firstborn into the
world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship
Him ." Hebrews 1:6

Matthew 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. Matthew 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk? Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.



Then he said,
"Lord, I believe!"
And he worshiped
him (John 9:38

Janosky:
Bros,from Genesis to Revelation, anywhere you see this word "BORN" , that's clear proof the Subject or Individual ORIGINATED from a Superior Source.
The beginning of pangs of birth pains DOESN'T mean the Source of birth pains.
Did Jesus Christ creat his Father?
In the Oldest Greek MSS, the words: '"the head over " NEVER exists in Colossians 1:15.
It was inserted by Bible Translators to support the Trinity.

"The firstborn of every creature" (KJV) is too sweet and accurate ! Gbam !!!!
The KJV refutes Dr Geisler's false claims.

Dr Norman Geissler is intellectually dishonest !
BlueAgent, you have staunchly said Jesus Christ is the son of God,not Trinity.
Now,you are bringing a Trinitarian claim to the table. .
My people say "Bros, urinate for one place make eee foam."

But when the fullness of the time had come, God
sent forth His Son , born of a woman, born under the
law, Galatians 4:4

Am still wondering while this Bible verse did not say God sent an Angel born of a woman considering the fact that Angels are also called Sons of God.


Consider this Bible verses they all call Jesus God.

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the FORM of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:


John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.


1. For unto us a Child is born , Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His
name will be called Wonderful , Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6


Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

okosunehis:
If you agree that Jesus was born or begotten of God, then I don't think his being created by God should be a contentious issue. Remember that issues like this sometimes come down to semantics and meanings that become lost in translation. When a male and a female copulate and have a child, they become procreators of the offspring.

If you consider the several translations of Colossians 1:15, two words which are ubiquitous are "firstborn" and "creation/creature".

[New International Version]
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

[English Standard Version]
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

[King James Bible]
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

The baseline word is the noun creation/creature. Your argument is that Jesus is not within the subset of all things created by God. A question to consider would then be, so what is Jesus "first" or "firstborn" of? In my opinion, the logical conclusion would be that Jesus himself is a part of God's creation, being the first of all things born or created by God.

Let's also look at Revelation 3:14. The Greek word used to describe Jesus is ἀρχὴ (archē) - Strong's Greek 746: From archomai; a commencement, or chief.

[New International Version]
"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.

[English Standard Version]
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation.

[King James Bible]
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

You can see how ἀρχὴ (archē) applies to this scripture.

So whether we choose to use the words born, begotten or created; while they may vary slightly in usage, it basically means that only JEHOVAH existed at some point, before He brought another completely independent being or person, Logos/Word/Jesus into existence.

In general context, while we can all said to be born or created of/by God, only Jesus Christ is begotten. I'm sure you pretty much agree with that.

1. "In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not
say to you that I shall pray the Father for you;
2. "for the Father Himself loves you, because you have
loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from
God .
3. "I came forth from the Father and have come into
the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the
Father." John 16:26-28

The words came forth and came out are not idioms

The phrase "came forth " is translated from the Greek word:
("exerchomai " Strongs # 1831) which
means to "issued forth " or to have " issued from". Jesus issued
forth from the Father. In the next verse, "proceeded forth " also
comes from the same Greek word.
The next Scripture is very interesting. In verse 41, the leaders
decided to push their point by saying that they were not
illegitimate like Jesus was. Thus they were saying Jesus was
Illegitimate!
In response, Jesus expanded His message by telling them
where He actually came from. So, Jesus told them that He
was not illegitimate at all. He proceeded forth from God!
Christ told them: If God were their father, they would love Him
because He came out of the Father, and He came from God,
who sent Him into the world.
Jesus was speaking very plainly, telling them where He came
from, yet it was as if they had not heard Him:
1. "You do the deeds of your father." Then they said to
Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one
Father--God."
2. Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you
would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from
God ; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me .
3. "Why do you not understand My speech? Because
you are not able to listen to My word. John 8:41-43
Jesus said He came forth from God when He was accused of
being illegitimate. So it is clear that Jesus was speaking of
His original birth from the Creator. Jesus is not illegitimate!
In this and the next Scripture we find that Jesus spoke of two
different events. 1) He proceeded forth or He came forth from
God and, 2) He came into the world (God sent Him).
The text is not just a fancy way to describe His coming to the
earth twice. But rather, Jesus was saying that He proceeded
forth from God and He also came from God who sent Him to
the earth.
1. "Now they have known that all things which You
have given Me are from You.
2. "For I have given to them the words which You
have given Me; and they have received them, and have
known surely that I came forth from You; and they
have believed that You sent Me. John 17:7-8
Christ's followers knew that Jesus came forth from God and
they also believed that God had sent Him to the earth.
Since He was the only begotten Son of God, Jesus was
actually composed out of the "stuff" of God! He was in the
form of God!
1. Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ
Jesus ,
2. who, being in the form of God , did not consider it
robbery to be equal with God , Philippians 2:5-6
Jesus came forth from His Father in the form of God.

Janosky:
Johnw FRAUD,why you dey disgrace yourself?
Trinity scam removed your brain...
Johnw FRAUD, Who made the dust of the ground?

**** Vocabulary.com Dictionary ***
come forth

Definitions of
come forth
1
* COME OUT OF
Synonyms:
Come out, egress, emerge, go forth, issue

* Happen or occur as a result of something
Synonyms:
emerge
Types:

come forth or begin from a state of latency
Type of:
arise, develop, grow, ORIGINATE, rise, spring up, uprise
COME INTO EXISTENCE ; take on form or shape

**. *** Johnw FRAUD , the gene of falsehood and FRAUD theorem was embedded in your blood before you COME FORTH from the womb.

Igbo man go say "Trinity FRAUD gbuo gi dia !!!!!"

The Trinity scam removed your sense & scrubbed your brain with POO.
*Spits*

1. "In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not
say to you that I shall pray the Father for you;
2. "for the Father Himself loves you, because you have
loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from
God .
3. "I came forth from the Father and have come into
the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the
Father." John 16:26-28.

You can never hid the truth for too long.

The words came forth and came out are not idioms

The phrase "came forth " is translated from the Greek word:
("exerchomai " Strongs # 1831) which
means to "issued forth " or to have " issued from". Jesus issued
forth from the Father. In the next verse, "proceeded forth " also
comes from the same Greek word.
The next Scripture is very interesting. In verse 41, the leaders
decided to push their point by saying that they were not
illegitimate like Jesus was. Thus they were saying Jesus was
Illegitimate!
In response, Jesus expanded His message by telling them
where He actually came from. So, Jesus told them that He
was not illegitimate at all. He proceeded forth from God!
Christ told them: If God were their father, they would love Him
because He came out of the Father, and He came from God,
who sent Him into the world.
Jesus was speaking very plainly, telling them where He came
from, yet it was as if they had not heard Him:
1. "You do the deeds of your father." Then they said to
Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one
Father--God."
2. Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you
would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from
God ; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me .
3. "Why do you not understand My speech? Because
you are not able to listen to My word. John 8:41-43
Jesus said He came forth from God when He was accused of
being illegitimate. So it is clear that Jesus was speaking of
His original birth from the Creator. Jesus is not illegitimate!
In this and the next Scripture we find that Jesus spoke of two
different events. 1) He proceeded forth or He came forth from
God and, 2) He came into the world (God sent Him).
The text is not just a fancy way to describe His coming to the
earth twice. But rather, Jesus was saying that He proceeded
forth from God and He also came from God who sent Him to
the earth.
1. "Now they have known that all things which You
have given Me are from You.
2. "For I have given to them the words which You
have given Me; and they have received them, and have
known surely that I came forth from You; and they
have believed that You sent Me. John 17:7-8
Christ's followers knew that Jesus came forth from God and
they also believed that God had sent Him to the earth.
Since He was the only begotten Son of God, Jesus was
actually composed out of the "stuff" of God! He was in the
form of God!
1. Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ
Jesus ,
2. who, being in the form of God , did not consider it
robbery to be equal with God , Philippians 2:5-6
Jesus came forth from His Father in the form of God.

okosunehis:
If you agree that Jesus was born or begotten of God, then I don't think his being created by God should be a contentious issue. Remember that issues like this sometimes come down to semantics and meanings that become lost in translation. When a male and a female copulate and have a child, they become procreators of the offspring.

If you consider the several translations of Colossians 1:15, two words which are ubiquitous are "firstborn" and "creation/creature".

[New International Version]
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

[English Standard Version]
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

[King James Bible]
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

The baseline word is the noun creation/creature. Your argument is that Jesus is not within the subset of all things created by God. A question to consider would then be, so what is Jesus "first" or "firstborn" of? In my opinion, the logical conclusion would be that Jesus himself is a part of God's creation, being the first of all things born or created by God.

Let's also look at Revelation 3:14. The Greek word used to describe Jesus is ἀρχὴ (archē) - Strong's Greek 746: From archomai; a commencement, or chief.

[New International Version]
"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.

[English Standard Version]
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation.

[King James Bible]
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

You can see how ἀρχὴ (archē) applies to this scripture.

So whether we choose to use the words born, begotten or created; while they may vary slightly in usage, it basically means that only JEHOVAH existed at some point, before He brought another completely independent being or person, Logos/Word/Jesus into existence.

In general context, while we can all said to be born or created of/by God, only Jesus Christ is begotten. I'm sure you pretty much agree with that.

Like I said before I can barely disagree with you. where I have concerns is where people( Jehovah Witness) equate Jesus to Angels and claim he is not the literal Son of God but that he is Son of God like every other created being man and Angels.

But this is contrary to the word of God that says Jesus is the express image of God, who has the fullness of the Godhead(divinity) dwelling in him and that he Came forth or come out from his father. note the came forth and came out are not Idioms.

Janosky:
Bros,from Genesis to Revelation, anywhere you see this word "BORN" , that's clear proof the Subject or Individual ORIGINATED from a Superior Source.
The beginning of pangs of birth pains DOESN'T mean the Source of birth pains.
Did Jesus Christ creat his Father?
In the Oldest Greek MSS, the words: '"the head over " NEVER exists in Colossians 1:15.
It was inserted by Bible Translators to support the Trinity.

"The firstborn of every creature" (KJV) is too sweet and accurate ! Gbam !!!!
The KJV refutes Dr Geisler's false claims.

Dr Norman Geissler is intellectually dishonest !
BlueAgent, you have staunchly said Jesus Christ is the son of God,not Trinity.
Now,you are bringing a Trinitarian claim to the table. .
My people say "Bros, urinate for one place make eee foam."

Jesus is the literal son of God.

In Proverbs we find special mention of God's Son.
1. Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who
has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the
waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends
of the earth? What is His name , and what is His Son's
name , If you know? Proverbs 30:4
Who is it that has made the earth? And who is it that has
gone into heaven and come back. He has the wind in His fists
and waters in a garment. God has done all these things. It is
God who has created all things.
Now who is His Son? Yes mention of God's Son is here in the
book of Proverbs. What part did the Son play in the creation of
all things.
1. All things were made through Him [Jesus] , and
without Him nothing was made that was made . John
1:3
1. God, who at various times and in various ways
spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
2. has in these last days spoken to us by His Son,
whom He has appointed heir of all things, through
whom also He made the worlds; Hebrews 1:1-2.
1. By faith we understand that the worlds were
framed by the word of God , so that the things which
are seen were not made of things which are visible.
Hebrews 11:3

Maximus69:
You don't deserve all these headache, just open your own Church and start gathering your own sheep.

As for Jehovah's witnesses, Prophet Micah has informed us about what they'll be doing now and how peace loving everyone will know them for! Micah 4:1-3

All these religious groups each is walking in the name of it's God, so it's pointless disturbing your brains on those who have chosen who they're going to worship! Micah 4:5

You are not a seeker of truth, you are only interested in meeting your Church beliefs and expectations

2 Timothy 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved,
a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who
correctly handles the word of truth.


What makes you a fellower of Christ and God is not a feel good attitude or feeling, but the word and teaching of God.

John 8:31-32

1 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you
hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then
you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Janosky:
Isaac is the FIRST legitimately born son of his Father Abraham. He was granted the privilege that other children of Abraham NEVER had.
Greek monogenes, the only child is also the FIRST born of his parents.
The only begotten son is the FIRST child among his Father's children to be granted the privilege that wasn't given to other children of his Father.
Psalms 89:20,27. Hebrews 2:7. 1:5,6.
KJV usage of "monogenes" is FAULTLESS.
Bros,no dull yourself.

" ****Monogenes 4:737,606****"
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
mon-og-en-ace' Adjective
Definition
single of its kind, only
used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God
King James Word Usage - Total: 9
only begotten 6, only 2, only child 1"

1. "In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not
say to you that I shall pray the Father for you;
2. "for the Father Himself loves you, because you have
loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from
God .
3. "I came forth from the Father and have come into
the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the
Father." John 16:26-28.

You can never hid the truth for too long.

The words came forth and came out are not idioms

The phrase "came forth " is translated from the Greek word:
("exerchomai " Strongs # 1831) which
means to "issued forth " or to have " issued from". Jesus issued
forth from the Father. In the next verse, "proceeded forth " also
comes from the same Greek word.
The next Scripture is very interesting. In verse 41, the leaders
decided to push their point by saying that they were not
illegitimate like Jesus was. Thus they were saying Jesus was
Illegitimate!
In response, Jesus expanded His message by telling them
where He actually came from. So, Jesus told them that He
was not illegitimate at all. He proceeded forth from God!
Christ told them: If God were their father, they would love Him
because He came out of the Father, and He came from God,
who sent Him into the world.
Jesus was speaking very plainly, telling them where He came
from, yet it was as if they had not heard Him:
1. "You do the deeds of your father." Then they said to
Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one
Father--God."
2. Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you
would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from
God ; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me .
3. "Why do you not understand My speech? Because
you are not able to listen to My word. John 8:41-43
Jesus said He came forth from God when He was accused of
being illegitimate. So it is clear that Jesus was speaking of
His original birth from the Creator. Jesus is not illegitimate!
In this and the next Scripture we find that Jesus spoke of two
different events. 1) He proceeded forth or He came forth from
God and, 2) He came into the world (God sent Him).
The text is not just a fancy way to describe His coming to the
earth twice. But rather, Jesus was saying that He proceeded
forth from God and He also came from God who sent Him to
the earth.
1. "Now they have known that all things which You
have given Me are from You.
2. "For I have given to them the words which You
have given Me; and they have received them, and have
known surely that I came forth from You; and they
have believed that You sent Me. John 17:7-8
Christ's followers knew that Jesus came forth from God and
they also believed that God had sent Him to the earth.
Since He was the only begotten Son of God, Jesus was
actually composed out of the "stuff" of God! He was in the
form of God!
1. Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ
Jesus ,
2. who, being in the form of God , did not consider it
robbery to be equal with God , Philippians 2:5-6
Jesus came forth from His Father in the form of God.

Janosky:
*** Hebrews 11:17.
New International Version
By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,

New Living Translation
It was by faith that Abraham offered Isaac as a sacrifice when God was testing him. Abraham, who had received God’s promises, was ready to sacrifice his only son, Isaac,

English Standard Version
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son,

Berean Study Bible
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac on the altar. He who had received the promises was ready to offer his one and only son,

Berean Literal Bible
By faith Abraham, being tested, has offered up Isaac. Even the one having received the promises was offering up his only begotten son,

New American Standard Bible
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;

New King James Version
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

King James Bible
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

Christian Standard Bible
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac. He received the promises and yet he was offering his one
and only son,"

Bros, how many times did KJV translate " monogenesis ?
Abeg,count am and check am again...

You keep contractdicting yourself none of this Bible verses means what you intend it to mean if nothing else they expose your lie that Begotten means firsts.
E.g
By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a
sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to
sacrifice his one and only son,

But we know that Isaac was
not the first son of Abraham, it was Ishmael who was the first son of Abraham.

Rather than mean the First Son the word 'Begotten' means Isaac was the legitimate official Son of Abraham.

In that same vain Jesus is the legitimate official unique special and beloved Son of God.

Just like Isaac was recognized as Abraham's only begotten son despite him having Ishmael because Isaac was a child of convenant who was Begotten by Abraham.

So also Jesus is recognized as the only Begotten Son of God despite God having trillions of Angels and Man that are also called Sons of God.

It grieved Abraham to scarifice his Son to God, so also it grieved the heart of God to give his only Begotten son as a scarifice for humanity.



1. In this the love of God was manifested toward us,
that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world,
that we might live through Him. 1 John 4:9

Janosky:
Note my words:
" It's unique privilege to be firstborn or only begotten. It's never by choice."

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 3439 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
monogenhvß from (3441) and (1096)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Monogenes 4:737,606
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
mon-og-en-ace' Adjective
Definition
single of its kind, only
used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God
King James Word Usage - Total: 9
only begotten 6, only 2, only child 1"

*** (2).
What is the form/nature of everyone dwelling in heaven?
What is the form/nature of everyone dwelling on earth?
Your answer solves the popular notorious twisting of Philippians 2:6,7

So we're is it written that First means to be begotton in the dictionary meaning?

Janosky:
Bros,from Genesis to Revelation, anywhere you see this word "BORN" , that's clear proof the Subject or Individual ORIGINATED from a Superior Source.
The beginning of pangs of birth pains DOESN'T mean the Source of birth pains.
Did Jesus Christ creat his Father?
In the Oldest Greek MSS, the words: '"the head over " NEVER exists in Colossians 1:15.
It was inserted by Bible Translators to support the Trinity.

"The firstborn of every creature" (KJV) is too sweet and accurate ! Gbam !!!!
The KJV refutes Dr Geisler's false claims.

Dr Norman Geissler is intellectually dishonest !
BlueAgent, you have staunchly said Jesus Christ is the son of God,not Trinity.
Now,you are bringing a Trinitarian claim to the table. .
My people say "Bros, urinate for one place make eee foam."

You like to digress from the arguments at stake, instead answering questions with straight answers you are looking for loop holes were there are none

Janosky:
Bros,from Genesis to Revelation, anywhere you see this word "BORN" , that's clear proof the Subject or Individual ORIGINATED from a Superior Source.
The beginning of pangs of birth pains DOESN'T mean the Source of birth pains.
Did Jesus Christ creat his Father?
In the Oldest Greek MSS, the words: '"the head over " NEVER exists in Colossians 1:15.
It was inserted by Bible Translators to support the Trinity.

"The firstborn of every creature" (KJV) is too sweet and accurate ! Gbam !!!!
The KJV refutes Dr Geisler's false claims.

Dr Norman Geissler is intellectually dishonest !
BlueAgent, you have staunchly said Jesus Christ is the son of God,not Trinity.
Now,you are bringing a Trinitarian claim to the table. .
My people say "Bros, urinate for one place make eee foam."

Where is the trinitarians claim? the Bible is clear on this matter that God is the father of Jesus who beget him and God through Jesus created all things.
We are made to know that all things where created by Jesus and without him nothing was ever created.

It is your responsibility to prove to us how Jesus is a created being and yet God's word tells us that all power and principalities were made by Jesus and without him no power or principalities was made.

Stop quoting Dr Geisler's his word does not count if it contradicts God's word.

Janosky:
The Hebrew old testament says Jehovah begat Israel.... Bros "begat" is what it is -'begat'.
Jehovah begat the mountains.
Jehovah begat Israel.
Jehovah begat Jesus.
Bros, Jehovah CREATED them ALL.
Every life exists by creation
"Jesus Christ is "the first born of every creature", you garrit?
You are free to believe what you like Sha..
No qualms.
Shalom.

John 1:3 contains two direct statements that tell us that it
was the preexistent Jesus who created all things. “All things
were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made
that was made.” Notice that John is not content to say only
that all things were made through Him, but John adds the fact
that “without Him nothing was made.”
Paul confirms exactly what John wrote: “For by Him all things
were created.” Paul goes on to make sure that we understand
what he means by all things—”that are in heaven and that are
on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or
principalities or powers. All things were created through Him
and for Him” (Colossians 1:16).
Since Jesus created all things, He could not have been one of
the “created things.” Paul then adds, so there can be no
mistake, “He is before all things, and in him all things hold
together” (Colossians 1:17 , NIV).
Dr. Norman Geisler comments: “The context of this passage
makes it clear that there are no exceptions; Christ is the
Creator of all things including angels and everything visible or
invisible. Nowhere is this made more clear that Christ is not a
creature—angelic or otherwise—than in the relation of angels
to Him. Since Christ could not be both the Creator of
everything and at the same time a creature Himself, it is
necessary to conclude that He is Himself the uncreated
Creator of all creation” ( Christian Apologetics, 1988, p. 338).
He adds a footnote: “In view of the clear teaching that Christ
is Creator and not a creature, the Arian misinterpretations of
phrases like Christ is ‘firstborn’ (Colossians 1:15 ) or ‘beginning
of creation’ (Revelation 3:14) are wrong. Christ is ‘firstborn’ in
the sense of being the unique (not created) Son of God. Christ
is first over creation, not first in it” (ibid.).
Micah 5:2 stated that the messianic King to come was “from
everlasting.” Jesus had appeared in His divine life before His
human birth as the priest-king Melchizedek (see Hebrews 7),
“having neither beginning of days nor end of life” (Micah 5:3).

Janosky:
The Hebrew old testament says Jehovah begat Israel.... Bros "begat" is what it is -'begat'.
Jehovah begat the mountains.
Jehovah begat Israel.
Jehovah begat Jesus.
Bros, Jehovah CREATED them ALL.
Every life exists by creation
"Jesus Christ is "the first born of every creature", you garrit?
You are free to believe what you like Sha..
No qualms.
Shalom.

You mean that God so loved the World that he gave us an Angel posing as a son.


1. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only
begotten Son , that whoever believes in Him should not
perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16.

Janosky:
The Hebrew old testament says Jehovah begat Israel.... Bros "begat" is what it is -'begat'.
Jehovah begat the mountains.
Jehovah begat Israel.
Jehovah begat Jesus.
Bros, Jehovah CREATED them ALL.
Every life exists by creation
"Jesus Christ is "the first born of every creature", you garrit?
You are free to believe what you like Sha..
No qualms.
Shalom.

Is Jesus Created?
Is Jesus God, a divine being, or is He a created being? Some
people believe that Jesus is actually a part of God's creation
and that Colossians 1:15 supports the idea that Jesus is just
a created being. Is that true? Is Jesus really a created being or
is Jesus in fact a divine being?
1.
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of
every creature : Colossians 1:15 KJV
When we read this text, the words that are used in the King
James Bible make it sound like Paul is calling Jesus a created
being: " the firstborn of every creature". So, when he says
Jesus was the firstborn of every creature, is Paul really saying
that Jesus was the first one to be created?
Lets look into this question. When we start to look around at
other versions of the Bible we can see that there is another
way to understand what Paul is saying.
New King James Version
New International Version
New English Bible
The Revised English Bible
New Century Version
Phillips
Goodspeed
15.
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all
creation. Colossians 1:15
15.
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all
creation. Colossians 1:15
15.
He is the image of the invisible God; his is the primacy over
all created things. Colossians 1:15
15.
He is the image of the invisible God; his is the primacy over
all creation . Colossians 1:15
15.
No one can see God, but Jesus Christ is exactly like him. He
ranks higher than everything that has been made. Colossians
1:15 15.
Now Christ is the visible expression of the invisible God. He
existed before creation began . Colossians 1:15
15.
He is a likeness of the unseen God, born before any creature,
Colossians 1:15
Instead of saying that Jesus was the first created being; Paul
could be saying that Jesus is over all creation, that He existed
before creation began. Does Jesus rank higher than any
created being that has ever been made? Lets look at the next
verse to see which interpretation might be correct.
1. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn
over all creation .
2. For by Him all things were created that are in
heaven and that are on earth , visible and invisible,
whether thrones or dominions or principalities or
powers. All things were created through Him and for
Him. Colossians 1:15-16. NKJV

Janosky:
The Hebrew old testament says Jehovah begat Israel.... Bros "begat" is what it is -'begat'.
Jehovah begat the mountains.
Jehovah begat Israel.
Jehovah begat Jesus.
Bros, Jehovah CREATED them ALL.
Every life exists by creation
"Jesus Christ is "the first born of every creature", you garrit?
You are free to believe what you like Sha..
No qualms.
Shalom.

In the Book of
Revelation Jesus is
called the beginning of
the creation of God.
To the angel of
the church in
Laodicea write:
the amen, the
faithful and true
witness, the
beginning of the
creation of God,
says this
(Revelation 3:14 ).
This verse has been
used to say that Jesus
was a created being.
Jesus Is The Origin Of
God's Creation
The word translated
"beginning" can also
have the meaning of
"origin." This idea is
that the creation of all
things originated with
Jesus. He is the source
of creation.
Summary
Jesus is called the
beginning of God's
creation. This does not
mean that he is a
created being. It refers to
the fact that he is the
origin of God's creation
- he is the one who
originated the creation
process.

Janosky:
Bros, the Jews said:
Jehovah begat the mountains.
Jehovah begat Israel.
Jehovah begat Jesus.
Please, feel free to argue with them and teach them the meaning of words in their own language.
Wahala no dey.
Shalom.

beget verb
be·​get | \ bi-ˈget , bē-\
begot\ bi-​ˈgät , bē-​ \ also begat \ bi-​ˈgat , bē-​ \ ;
begotten \ bi-​ˈgä-​tᵊn , bē-​ \ or begot ; begetting
Definition of beget
transitive verb
1 : to procreate as the father : SIRE
// He died without begetting an heir.
2 : to produce especially as an effect or outgrowth
// Violence only begets more violence.
Other Words from beget
Synonyms
More Example Sentences
Learn More about beget
Keep scrolling for more
Other Words from beget
begetter noun
Synonyms for beget
Synonyms
breed, bring, bring about , bring on, catalyze, cause ,
create , do, draw on, effect, effectuate, engender,
generate, induce , invoke , make, occasion , produce,
prompt , result (in) , spawn , translate (into) , work , yield
Visit the Thesaurus for More

Janosky:
Bros,confusion no dey.
The only child of his parents is "only begotten", he/she is their firstborn. It's unique privilege to be firstborn or only begotten. It's never by choice.
It is in that context,the Jews understand that term.

Jesus Christ says he is a God,man too is a God. Angel is a God. Men are partakers of divine nature too.
All of them were created in the image of God.
Jehovah bestowed Power, Authority and exalted name on Jesus.
No other being was granted such privilege.

I guess they are all first born in this Bible verses according to your meaning of beget?

Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob
begat Judas and his brethren;
3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares
begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson;
and Naasson begat Salmon;
5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of
Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat
Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and
Abia begat Asa;
8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and
Joram begat Ozias;
9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and
Achaz begat Ezekias;

Janosky:
Bros,confusion no dey.
The only child of his parents is "only begotten", he/she is their firstborn. It's unique privilege to be firstborn or only begotten. It's never by choice.
It is in that context,the Jews understand that term.

Jesus Christ says he is a God,man too is a God. Angel is a God. Men are partakers of divine nature too.
All of them were created in the image of God.
Jehovah bestowed Power, Authority and exalted name on Jesus.
No other being was granted such privilege.

when did dictionary start defining Begotten as first Son or Daughter ?

Was Isaac Abraham's first Child? but the Bible says he was BEGOTTEN by Abraham.

No we're in the Bible is Begotten referred to as been the first child of someone if that be the case the Bible would not have told us that Jesus was the First showing that he was first among many others that were Begotten.



Where in the Bible are Angels call God or are said to be in the FORM(class,nature, species) of God?

Janosky:
Since God begat Israel not literally, likewise, God born the mountains not literally.

It's intellectual dishonesty to cherry pick Deut 32:18 to suit your preconceived ideas and in the same breath discard Psalms 90:2.

SOURCE :
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3205.htm :

Pu`al
יֻלַּד Genesis 4:26 Perfect. Judges18:29 ; יֻלָּד֨ Genesis 41:50 ; יוּלָּ֑ד
Genesis 6:1. 2 Samuel 3:2 (Qr וַיִּוָָּֽלְדוּ ‏) ;ֻלָּ֑דוּ Psalm 90:2 , etc.; "


* The Hebrew words "YALAD" & "QANAH" are synonymous. Both words apply to animate and inanimate creation. Compare Gen14:19. Prov8:22. Gen4:1.

*** Yahweh is the Creator & Father of ALL...,Yahweh has no wife or orifice from which living beings come forth.
"Come out " or Come Forth" are simply idioms which reference Yahweh as the Source of Life in heaven and earth.
Yahweh CREATED All, #But man procreates.

Keep confusing yourself.

Israelites are living beings so the word beget or born means to bear or create.

But in the case of Jesus God himself told us that Jesus is his son Begotten by him and that Jesus is called God and should also be worshipped, here we have more than enough evidence to prove that Jesus was BEGOTTEN by God.

Janosky:
Since God begat Israel not literally, likewise, God born the mountains not literally.

It's intellectual dishonesty to cherry pick Deut 32:18 to suit your preconceived ideas and in the same breath discard Psalms 90:2.

SOURCE :
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3205.htm :

Pu`al
יֻלַּד Genesis 4:26 Perfect. Judges18:29 ; יֻלָּד֨ Genesis 41:50 ; יוּלָּ֑ד
Genesis 6:1. 2 Samuel 3:2 (Qr וַיִּוָָּֽלְדוּ ‏) ;ֻלָּ֑דוּ Psalm 90:2 , etc.; "


* The Hebrew words "YALAD" & "QANAH" are synonymous. Both words apply to animate and inanimate creation. Compare Gen14:19. Prov8:22. Gen4:1.

*** Yahweh is the Creator & Father of ALL...,Yahweh has no wife or orifice from which living beings come forth.
"Come out " or Come Forth" are simply idioms which reference Yahweh as the Source of Life in heaven and earth.
Yahweh CREATED All, #But man procreates.

So using your logic Abraham did not beget Isaac?
Matthew 1:2-17
2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob
begat Judas and his brethren;

I guess the word beget there is an Idiom

Janosky:
Since God begat Israel not literally, likewise, God born the mountains not literally.

It's intellectual dishonesty to cherry pick Deut 32:18 to suit your preconceived ideas and in the same breath discard Psalms 90:2.

SOURCE :
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3205.htm :

Pu`al
יֻלַּד Genesis 4:26 Perfect. Judges18:29 ; יֻלָּד֨ Genesis 41:50 ; יוּלָּ֑ד
Genesis 6:1. 2 Samuel 3:2 (Qr וַיִּוָָּֽלְדוּ ‏) ;ֻלָּ֑דוּ Psalm 90:2 , etc.; "


* The Hebrew words "YALAD" & "QANAH" are synonymous. Both words apply to animate and inanimate creation. Compare Gen14:19. Prov8:22. Gen4:1.

*** Yahweh is the Creator & Father of ALL...,Yahweh has no wife or orifice from which living beings come forth.
"Come out " or Come Forth" are simply idioms which reference Yahweh as the Source of Life in heaven and earth.
Yahweh CREATED All, #But man procreates.

That's false because the Bible does not allow us to make our on interpretation of words.
The word come out and come forth are not Idioms.

When we allow the Bible to explain itself we will see that God beget Jesus that explains why Jesus is called God and has God's nature .

The word begat sheds more light on the word come out and come forth that it means every single latter of what it means
You think God is a man that needs a woman and man to meet for them to bear children? that's naivety for one to limit God by using human understanding.

If God could create and design Amoeba and plants like plantains and bannana that reproduce through ASexual reproduction , that is they do not need a mate to reproduce than why is it impossible for God to procreate without a spouse?
https://sciencing.com/amoeba-reproduce-10005613.html

solite3:
Cc Anas, blabbermouth,haywizzy, blueagent, shediyinka, muttylaff

Even beyond the question of scriptural support, we must ask
the question of precisely what the doctrine of the Trinity
means. Christians say that their religion is not polytheistic,
that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not three separate
gods but are in some way all the same being. But if this is the
case, then what is it that makes the Christian god a trinity? In
what way are the three distinct while at the same time
remaining one?
The difference is not one of presence or extent; all three
members of the Trinity are believed by Christians to be
omnipresent. The difference is not one of power; Christians
believe all members of the Trinity to be omnipotent. Nor is the
difference one of knowledge; Christians believe all members of
the Trinity to be omniscient. But what else can be the source
of the distinction? Do the members of the Trinity have
separate consciousnesses, so that their thoughts are different
from each other? Do they have separate wills, so that their
desires and preferences differ? If neither is the case, then in
what sense are they distinct?
This is the fundamental paradox of the Trinity. If the Father,
the Son and the Holy Spirit have separate consciousnesses or
desires, then they are each separate gods, and there is no
sense in which they are the same being. In that case,
Christianity is polytheistic. But on the other hand, if the Son
and the Holy Spirit have no separate consciousness or will
from the Father, then they have no independent existence at
all – they are merely instruments or tools through which God
works to accomplish his will. One would not call a carpenter’s
hammer a carpenter in and of itself, nor would one say that
the carpenter was the same as his hammer. In this case, if the
members of the Trinity have no separate consciousness, will
or desires, then there is no Trinity at all – the whole doctrine
is essentially just a convoluted way for God to talk to himself.
Either way, the resolution is the same: the Christian divinity
can be either one or three, but not both at the same time.
When trying to explain the meaning of the Trinity, Christian
theologians often speak of it as a divine mystery that lies
beyond full human comprehension. If this is true, it is strange
that God, if he wanted us to understand and relate to him,
would create us in such a way that a fundamental aspect of
his nature would lie forever beyond our grasp. But a more
important objection to such claims is this: If a claim is labeled
beyond our ability to understand, then how are we supposed
to tell if it is true? What assurance do theists have that the
Trinity is a true fact about the world that is genuinely beyond
our ability to comprehend, as opposed to a false claim
invented by people whose illogical nature is protected from
scrutiny by labeling it a mystery we aren’t intended to
understand?
But of course, there is no such assurance. The Trinity, if it is
to be believed, must be believed purely on the basis of faith.
And this is what i find unacceptable. Like other
religious doctrines, the Trinity bears all the hallmarks of an
idea invented by men – men who could not come up with
perfect solutions to the logical problems in the system they
had created, and so instead tried to paper over those
problems, to prevent people from examining them too closely,
by warning others in advance that this is something they
should not expect to make sense. Such irrationality should be
rejected by all thinking minds; it has never brought us
anything of benefit. The light of reason points the way to a
better path, if only we are willing to follow it.

Seamtri:
Mr man, stop making a deal out of nothing. There is nothing like hate here. I'm just wowed with how dark she is, it's actually awesome cos i hardly come across such dark complexion here in Nigeria. So don't get my words twisted.
Peace...

You dey mind the clown.

Kennyswagz1:
I hate the black race

Very dumb race.

Ugwuoke347:
You are absolutely correct on that.
The true man is a provider, a protector and a preserver.

True. but what is ideal is different from what is real.

isthatso:
Money will not give you everything in life . But you will get nothing in life without money.

work hard and make money, but dont be arrogant and an ass because you have money. Understand the role and function of money, what access it gets you, what it buys, what is real and what only exists because of your money and dont let it rule you.

In relation to this thread, Understand that money is the King of women, love, cuteness and laughter will go out of the window if you cant provide. The day you cannot provide food, school fees, etc is the day you will realise you are not cute, funny or romantic and one politician with big fat stomach is cuter, more romantic and funnier than you.

On point.

isthatso:
you understand the game!!!

Gbam!!!!! Guy I owe you two bottles.

oglalasioux:
Every woman has at least 4 men in her life. Each fit into the categories listed.

True.

subcbouy:
Listen to this:

All successful men go after women; all women go after successful men. Therefore, leave women, go after success.

I Concur.

Success has many friends.