₦airaland Forum

nauto5:
He Who have money
Have a good thing
And obtain love from Girls

Lol.....I Concur.
Says Book of Sense Chapter 1 verse 7

Chiefochiefo:
Above all, funny guy wins it all. Funny makes one happy. Funny brings money, check out our comedians. Being funny you're romantic. Funny funny funny!

Na liar.

Okoroawusa:
The Bible is a book of contradictories my dear

Am sure you have never read the Bible yourself.

victorian:
All the 4 traits in one guy , cause am all the 4 in one lady too


So I expect the same from my man

That's impressive.

Maximus69:
Jesus really cared about honest hearted and sincere people who may love to know about him in our time! Luke 18:8

The FRUIT blueAgent the FRUIT!

Carefully read, Cautiously study,thoroughly meditate and fervently pray over the matter as you read through Matthew 7:15-20, Galatians 5:22-23, James 2:18-26!

The FRUIT of God's holy spirit that Jesus admonished interested persons to observe in other to identify his group!

God bless you Sir!

This is no substitute for the word of God.

James 2:18-26 talks about faith and we are told that faith comes only by hearing the word of God.

So how can you claim you have fruits when it is not laid on the sure foundation which is the word of God.

Romans 10:17
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of
God.

Like I showed you before God is asking people to leave Babylon and all false teachings which includes the doctrine that Jesus is not the literal son of God.


Your fruits / works will not save you or anyone on last day what will save you or people is the knowledge/faith in the fact that Jesus is the Literal son of God who died to deliver us from Death and sin.

Titus 3:5-7 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but
according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of
regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our
Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs
according to the hope of eternal life.

Maximus69:
If you don't know the FRUIT Jesus asked honest hearted and sincere observers to look out for then it's simple you can't be a REAL Christian!

Jesus came all alone as God's only begotten son, even his immediate family must be observant for any of them to become a Christian, and only Christians can have everlasting life!

So if you don't know the FRUIT, hmmmmmmmm that means all what you've been quoting ever since is of NO benefit to you, because Jesus established his group almost 2,000 years ago he was worried about the FRUIT {Matthew 7:15-20} they must bear for honest hearted and sincere observers to identify them amidst thousands of false religions that Satan was about to arrange in Jesus name! Matthew 7:21-23

Don't tell me that the fruit you are referring to is that your Church members go house to house to preach.

The question is what they are teaching, is it in accordance to God's word or are they teaching their own word or philosophy?

Maximus69:
If you don't know the FRUIT Jesus asked honest hearted and sincere observers to look out for then it's simple you can't be a REAL Christian!

Jesus came all alone as God's only begotten son, even his immediate family must be observant for any of them to become a Christian, and only Christians can have everlasting life!

So if you don't know the FRUIT, hmmmmmmmm that means all what you've been quoting ever since is of NO benefit to you, because Jesus established his group almost 2,000 years ago he was worried about the FRUIT {Matthew 7:15-20} they must bear for honest hearted and sincere observers to identify them amidst thousands of false religions that Satan was about to arrange in Jesus name! Matthew 7:21-23

The irony is that the Bible verse you quoted(Matt 7:15_20), is a Bible verse that speaks against your Church and it's doctrine.

Any doctrine that is against God's word is Anti Christ and false prophets.

On the fruits you claim your Church bears I cannot see any. maybe am not conversant with your Church but you will do well giving me some examples.

Maximus69:
Good so keep teaching them facelessly on social media to adhere, when your group and their group is teaching them TRINITY while you're saying it's wrong!

Jesus have given us the clue to identifying his organization in this end time. But if you think you can find Christians (those practicing what Jesus taught) in different religious groups teaching contradicting doctrines, then it's up to you Sir!

Martin Luther's Reformation movement started with him pasting his 95 theses on the door of a church.

God's end time Reformation movement will not start or be done by those who rate and praise themselves, but it will start from an unlikely source and grow like wild fire.


1 Corinthians 1:27

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to
confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of
the world to confound the things which are mighty;

Maximus69:
All these na story story story Sir!

Jesus knew perfectly that there can never be a religion without something their members be preaching, therefore every religion in this end time keep preaching and carrying Bible (even Muslim do carry Bibles along during their open air revivals)

So what will help honest hearted and sincere observers to identify the one and only Christian group out of all these false religions?

Jesus answered: "By their FRUIT you will recognise them" Matthew 7:15-20

If after seeing the FRUIT you now feel something is still missing, then
(1)it's either that is not the FRUIT or
(2)you can't identify the FRUIT or
(3)Jesus is not alive to organize his group to bear the FRUIT!

You can pick either of the three, then help Jesus since he's alive in the spirit realms but he can't organize his followers to bear the FRUIT!

My friend, stop deceiving yourself!

What fruit are you guys bearing? can you be specific.

Maximus69:
Good so keep teaching them facelessly on social media to adhere, when your group and their group is teaching them TRINITY while you're saying it's wrong!

Jesus have given us the clue to identifying his organization in this end time. But if you think you can find Christians (those practicing what Jesus taught) in different religious groups teaching contradicting doctrines, then it's up to you Sir!

Your Church is not qualified to be identified as an endtime agent of God.


God's end time Church would be preaching about God's word their mission is to return people to the true gospel of God.

That can only be achieved when the Church is devoted to the word of God, when they preach what God says and not what their founder or Church leaders say.

Revelation 14:6

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the
everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth,
and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

As you can see from the Bible verse above that God is serious about his word.

God is calling people to come out of Babylon and to reject any teaching of the Anti-Christ, which is any teaching that denies that Jesus is the Literal son of God.


1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He
is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

Maximus69:
Jesus said "just as it happened in the day of Noah" Luke 17:26

Please if compared to the world's population of Noah's day, of what ratio was those that were saved?

And were they scattered or having different mindsets regarding how one can be saved?

Are we talking about those who are saved or those who have done the most impact?

How can you say you are saved when you deny who the son of God is?
If you do not confess Jesus is the Son of
God then you are separated from God.
“Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is
the Son of God , God dwelleth in him, and
he in God.

” 1 John 4:15 . And again,
“Who is he that overcometh the world,
but he that believeth that Jesus is the
Son of God? ”

1 John 5:5
And if you deny Jesus is the Son of God
and that God gave His literal Son then
you make God a liar and you do not
have eternal life. “ He that believeth on
the Son of God has the witness in
himself: he that believeth not God has
made him a liar; because he believeth not
the record that God gave of his Son. And
this is the record, that God has given to
us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
He that has the Son has life; and he that
has not the Son of God has not life.

” 1
John 5:10-12
“But these are written, that you might
believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son
of God; and that believing you might have
life through his name .” John 20:31



Not my word but God's word.

Maximus69:
We're not debating on which book to use on this matter. You and i are claiming that the Bible is God's word!
What we're deliberating now is how to apply what was written, so that everyone out there can be convinced that our book Bible exert power {Hebrew 4:12} and it can set matters straight respecting people from different nations, cultures and profession! Micah 4:1-3 compared to 2Timothy 3:16-17

If you're 100% sure that all those religions are producing the expected FRUIT, then you need not come here debating on their TRINITY because it's their fundamental doctrine!

Whether JW, Adventist or Apostlic or Catholic God is not interested in labels what God wants is adherence to his word that is what is important to God.

Matthew 4:4:
But he answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live
by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of
the mouth of God.

Janosky:
Not entirely correct.

Source: Wikipedia.com/divinity

".... the concept and nature of divinity always has its source ultimately from God himself.
(TAKE NOTE= 'DIVINITY'- It's the state or quality of being divine, and the term can denote Godly nature or character. In Hebrew, the terms would usually be "el", "elohim", and in Greek usually "theos", or "theias".... (1 Cor 8:5, Psalm 82:1,6. John10:34-36, man is EL, "Gods", they have divine nature or divinity.).

Or it may have reference to a deity.[8] Even angels in the Psalms are considered divine or elohim, as spirit beings, in God's form
(Psalm 8:5).
In the New Testament the Greek word θεῖον (theion) in the Douay Version, is translated as "divinity". Examples are below:


Revelation 5:12
"Saying with a loud voice: The Lamb that was slain is worthy to receive power, and divinity, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and benediction."
The word translated as either "deity", or "divinity" in the Greek New Testament is also the Greek word θεότητος (theotētos), and the one Verse that contains it is this: Colossians 2:9


"Because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily." (NWT)
"For in him all the fullness of deity lives in bodily form." (NET)
"For the full content of divine nature lives in Christ." (TEV)
The word "divine" in the New Testament is the Greek word θείας (theias), and is the adjective form of "divinity".

2 Peter 1:4
"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

** It's Crystal clear that Jehovah bestowed 'divinity' on Christ, angels and man.
2Cor4:4,Christ is in the image of God.
Angels too,are in God's image..
James 3:9,Gen1:27, Man is in the image of God..

**STARK DIFFERENCE***
Ephesians 1:20,21. Matt28:18. Acts4:12 Jehovah gave Jesus Christ a name,power and authority which HE never gave to Angels and to man

You are only re-interpretting scriptures to suit your argument.
You have not explained why Jesus is called God by the father or while he has the express image of the father.

Janosky:
Whom did Angels come out of?
whom did Adam come out of?

You just nailed/shoot yourself on the foot.

Adam and Angels did not come out from God or Jesus because they are created beings.

But Jesus came out of God and has God's nature hence he is not a created being.

This proves while Angels and Adam did not have God's nature or name this is because they where created, but Jesus has God's name and nature.

Janosky:
Bros blue, I like the way you present your points on this forum.
You indeed spend time and resources to dig out the facts....
In a nutshell, You said give birth, beget, born is strictly applicable to 'living things".
For non living, Jehovah "create or make".
You claimed that Psalms 90:2 KJV is more better & correct.
But you have issues to resolve.....

**

In view of your claims in your previous post...
**@A)
""But in the case of Jesus who is a living Spirit like God the words born,bear and beget means every single letter of what they stand for.[quote author=blueAgent""


*** @B).
"Jehovah created Jesus, "
quote author=blueAgent""

***My questions:

You claim, I twist the Scriptures , why Your point ,@A) contradicts your point **@B)?
.
In Deut 32:18 ,Did Jehovah ' begat' Israel or created Israel?

Are you wrong, or is the KJV wrong?
Deut 32 :18 (KJV).
"18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art
unmindful, and hast forgotten God that
formed thee."

Yes , he beget Israel not literally.
Secondly from that sentence you can see that God was speaking in Idioms e.g God referred to himself as the Rock. This does not mean that God is a Rock but that God is a fortress like a rock is.

That explains a lot about how words were applied in the statement.

okosunehis:
Great post. I believe, just like the earliest authorities of the doctrine of Trinity, the author of this thread (solite3) is struggling so hard to infuse coherency into one of the most confounding teachings in Christendom. God is a god of reason, not incoherence. Admittedly, His word might be difficult to understand; but upon revelation, they actually become simple and logical. The harder Trinitarians try to explain the doctrine of three persons in one God(head), the more confused they sound!

From the original post, something was already missing. The writer failed to establish what exactly he was going ahead to defend. That leaves room for a lot of people to conflate issues, which I believe is not the intention. If I say for example, "I am a man", I might mean that I am a human being or that I am a human born with a penis. So in trying to establish my point, as common as the word may seem, I have to define exactly what I mean by my statement.

As we might all agree, though there are verses that seem to support the idea of Trinity in the Bible, the doctrine is not Biblical. Anyone can pick a couple of scriptures in the Bible and spin up a new doctrine; even the Devil quotes scripture.

Let us go back to one of the earliest authorities of Trinity - The Athanasian Creed. Although there are some disputations about its sources, it came into popular use in Christendom sometime in the sixteenth century. The Creed says, in excerpts;

"Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith...

"And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God...

"And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity...

"This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved."

This is a whole lot to swallow. But at least, we have established a reference point upon which we can now discourse.

In trying to establish a clear Biblical authority for the doctrine of Trinity, even the translators of the popular King James Version of the Bible committed a serious gaffe by attempting the same eisegesis as the author(solite3) here. Let us examine three different translations of 1 John 5:7, 8 -

(KJV) [7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. [8] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

(NIV) [7] For there are three that testify: [8] the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

(NLT) [7] So we have these three witnesses [8] the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and all three agree.

You can easily see the serious and deliberate error made in the KJV, all in an attempt to give authority to a strange and very questionable doctrine. This is one evidence to the perceiving and unbiased mind that the doctrine of Trinity is only an attempt by the Devil to confuse people about the true nature of God.

Jesus Christ, in John 17:3, teaches that it is essential for one to have a knowledge of the true God and he, the Son who was sent to this world. Here, there is no mention of a third person, the Holy Spirit. Again, in John 1:1, 14, Christ makes his disciples understand that he was with God from the very beginning of creation. In 5:26, Jesus highlighted the fact that he received life from the Father, who is the original source of life. Jesus is created by God, hence is the first and the beginning of God's creatures, by which all other things were created - (John 1:2,3; Colossians 1:15-17; Proverbs 8:30; Revelation 3:14; etc). Therefore, Jesus Christ was the other character God was referring to in Genesis 1:26, when He said; "Let US make man in OUR image..."

Due to the many similarities between the Father and the Son, (as we often have in our much less perfect human system), they also share a lot of names and titles. But the name YHWH (or YAHWEH, JHVH, JEHOVAH) is one that distinguishes the personality of the Father from any other. This was the name by which God revealed Himself to Moses in Exodus 6:2, 3.

Some relevant scriptural references that establish the supremacy of JEHOVAH over Jesus Christ and every other being include; Isaiah 40:18, 25; Proverbs 8: 22-30; Mark 10:18; John 5:30; 10:29; 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:28; 1 Timothy 1:17. A careful study of these texts will make us understand that not only does Christ acknowledge the supremacy of JEHOVAH God, but that he, Christ has always been subject to His Father - before, during and after his human existence.

From the above, it is clear that the claim of Trinity that the Son is uncreated is false: The Son derived life from the Father. It is also clear that omnipotence can only be attributed to the Father and not the Son, making the Father greater than the Son. It is why even though the Bible refers to Jesus christ the Son as "Mighty God"(Isaiah 9:6) and "Almighty"(Revelation 1:, only JEHOVAH is referred to as "Almighty God" or "God Almighty"(Genesis 17:1; Exodus 6:3). So although Jesus Christ possesses a form of "almightiness", being that everything was created by him and for him, hence is also referred to as Adonai, Elohim, King of kings and Lord of lords; his authority is not absolute as it excludes the very person who is responsible for his life and to whom he is subject - his Father JEHOVAH.

Moving on, let us talk about the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not a person. Some relevant pointers to this point are - there is no account of its creation; it does not have a name; it has never acted independently as a person; and it has never appeared as a person. Allow me to elaborate:

- The Bible tells us that the Father is uncreated, the Son is the first creature of the Father, but does not mention the nature of the creation of the Holy Spirit

- The appellation Holy Spirit simply means Spirit of the Holy One. The Holy Spirit is also called the Comforter. These are not personalized names. The Father is called JEHOVAH (meaning Self-existing One); the Son - Jesus Christ (meaning JEHOVAH will save His people through His anointed) or Logos (the Word and Purpose of God); but there is no name for the Holy Spirit.

- There are several records in the Bible of the Father acting as an independent being. Jesus the Son also acted as an independent, free thinking individual who by obedience and humility, acts in complete accordance to the dictates of his Father. The Bible does not suggest same for the Holy Spirit or give an instance of the Spirit declaring that "he" willingly chooses to always do the bidding of God the Father.

- Centuries before the earthly advent of Christ, God had prophesied that He would send a saviour to His people. When this saviour came, he came in the appearance of a human, just like you and I today. But when the Spirit, which Christ had promised his disciples before his ascension, came, it never appeared as a person or lived like a human being like Christ did with mankind for over 30 years. Rather the Spirit appeared as tongues of fire on the heads of the apostles. In fact, of all the records of encounters of the Holy Spirit, both from the Old and New Testaments, not once did it appear as a person. Even angels of God have appeared to humans and spoke in intelligible language to men and women of old. But not the Holy Spirit.

Clearly, the Holy Spirit cannot be a person. This is another falsehood of Trinity. For the fact that a lie cannot stand on its own, you will need to create a web of lies to give it as much credibility as possible. That is why I am taking my time to point out the inconsistencies in the doctrine of Trinity. If the Holy Spirit is not a person, what then is it?

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God's being, an intelligence or force inherent in the very nature of God, which He shares with whoever He chooses to do His bidding. Only one individual is privileged to have received this Spirit from its very source "without measure" (John 3:34), that is Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of JEHOVAH God. All others can only access the Holy Spirit in measured quantities, right down from the Apostles to anyone who is willing to be used by it. A most apt description of the Holy Spirit is given by St. Paul when he said, "For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." - 2 Timothy 1:7.

We might not be able to understand entirely the nature of God and His purpose for man, (we do not even have the capacity to); but a true, clear and basic knowledge of His person and that of His Son, our Redeemer Christ is essential for our salvation. (John 17:3)

I can barely disagree with you.


My only argument is that Jesus was not created by God but was born or Begotten by God.

Janosky:
Psalms 45:6, "Thy throne is God forever," or in the LXX, "Thy throne is the God forever." OR "Your divine throne" ( RSV )
** Psalms 45:6,7.
6 "Your throne is God's throne, ever and
always; The scepter of your royal rule
measures right living. 7 You love the right
and hate the wrong. And that is why God,
your very own God, poured fragrant oil on
your head, Marking you out as king from
among your dear companions. "
Rev 3:21. 1Chron29:23. Psalms 93:2. Luk1:31-33.

*****
Psalms 8:5 angels are Elohim.
Psalms 82:1,6. Man is Elohim, s
Where did anointing of Jesus above his fellows take place?
Hebrew 1:9, Earthly man no be Jesus Christ age mate, or peer in anything.....
****
Jehovah has no fellowship with Satan, neither Jesus and loyal angels in heaven.
Wetin concern Jesus with Satan and Demons wey Jehovah done sack komot from his loyalists tay tay.....? 2Cor 6:14,15


The koko of Hebrews chapter 1 says that Jesus Christ was exalted above the angels..
That is the subject headings of different Bible versions.....

In the context of Hebrews chapter 1,in it's entirety, who are those Jesus Christ was exalted above?

2 Thess1:7-9, Mark 8:38. Matt16:27 Jesus Christ the archangel leads his angels in a victorious battle. He is the angel of Yahweh (angel of the lord ) in the Old Testament.

Allow the Bible to interpret itself.

God calls Jesus God that's more than enough to tell you who Jesus is.


Psalms 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

[quote author=okosunehis post=83266622]Great post. I believe, just like the earliest authorities of the doctrine of Trinity, the author of this thread (solite3) is struggling so hard to infuse coherency into one of the most confounding teachings in Christendom. God is a god of reason, not incoherence. Admittedly, His word might be difficult to understand; but upon revelation, they actually become simple and logical. The harder Trinitarians try to explain the doctrine of three persons in one God(head), the more confused they sound!

From the original post, something was already missing. The writer failed to establish what exactly he was going ahead to defend. That leaves room for a lot of people to conflate issues, which I believe is not the intention. If I say for example, "I am a man", I might mean that I am a human being or that I am a human born with a penis. So in trying to establish my point, as common as the word may seem, I have to define exactly what I mean by my statement.

As we might all agree, though there are verses that seem to support the idea of Trinity in the Bible, the doctrine is not Biblical. Anyone can pick a couple of scriptures in the Bible and spin up a new doctrine; even the Devil quotes scripture.

Let us go back to one of the earliest authorities of Trinity - The Athanasian Creed. Although there are some disputations about its sources, it came into popular use in Christendom sometime in the sixteenth century. The Creed says, in excerpts;

"Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith...

"And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God...

"And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity...

"This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved."

This is a whole lot to swallow. But at least, we have established a reference point upon which we can now discourse.

In trying to establish a clear Biblical authority for the doctrine of Trinity, even the translators of the popular King James Version of the Bible committed a serious gaffe by attempting the same eisegesis as the author(solite3) here. Let us examine three different translations of 1 John 5:7, 8 -

(KJV) [7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. [8] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

(NIV) [7] For there are three that testify: [8] the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

(NLT) [7] So we have these three witnesses [8] the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and all three agree.

You can easily see the serious and deliberate error made in the KJV, all in an attempt to give authority to a strange and very questionable doctrine. This is one evidence to the perceiving and unbiased mind that the doctrine of Trinity is only an attempt by the Devil to confuse people about the true nature of God.

Jesus Christ, in John 17:3, teaches that it is essential for one to have a knowledge of the true God and he, the Son who was sent to this world. Here, there is no mention of a third person, the Holy Spirit. Again, in John 1:1, 14, Christ makes his disciples understand that he was with God from the very beginning of creation. In 5:26, Jesus highlighted the fact that he received life from the Father, who is the original source of life. Jesus is created by God, hence is the first and the beginning of God's creatures, by which all other things were created - (John 1:2,3; Colossians 1:15-17; Proverbs 8:30; Revelation 3:14; etc). Therefore, Jesus Christ was the other character God was referring to in Genesis 1:26, when He said; "Let US make man in OUR image..."

Due to the many similarities between the Father and the Son, (as we often have in our much less perfect human system), they also share a lot of names and titles. But the name YHWH (or YAHWEH, JHVH, JEHOVAH) is one that distinguishes the personality of the Father from any other. This was the name by which God revealed Himself to Moses in Exodus 6:2, 3.

Some relevant scriptural references that establish the supremacy of JEHOVAH over Jesus Christ and every other being include; Isaiah 40:18, 25; Proverbs 8: 22-30; Mark 10:18; John 5:30; 10:29; 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:28; 1 Timothy 1:17. A careful study of these texts will make us understand that not only does Christ acknowledge the supremacy of JEHOVAH God, but that he, Christ has always been subject to His Father - before, during and after his human existence.

From the above, it is clear that the claim of Trinity that the Son is uncreated is false: The Son derived life from the Father. It is also clear that omnipotence can only be attributed to the Father and not the Son, making the Father greater than the Son. It is why even though the Bible refers to Jesus christ the Son as "Mighty God"(Isaiah 9:6) and "Almighty"(Revelation 1:, only JEHOVAH is referred to as "Almighty God" or "God Almighty"(Genesis 17:1; Exodus 6:3). So although Jesus Christ possesses a form of "almightiness", being that everything was created by him and for him, hence is also referred to as Adonai, Elohim, King of kings and Lord of lords; his authority is not absolute as it excludes the very person who is responsible for his life and to whom he is subject - his Father JEHOVAH.

Moving on, let us talk about the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not a person. Some relevant pointers to this point are - there is no account of its creation; it does not have a name; it has never acted independently as a person; and it has never appeared as a person. Allow me to elaborate:

- The Bible tells us that the Father is uncreated, the Son is the first creature of the Father, but does not mention the nature of the creation of the Holy Spirit

- The appellation Holy Spirit simply means Spirit of the Holy One. The Holy Spirit is also called the Comforter. These are not personalized names. The Father is called JEHOVAH (meaning Self-existing One); the Son - Jesus Christ (meaning JEHOVAH will save His people through His anointed) or Logos (the Word and Purpose of God); but there is no name for the Holy Spirit.

- There are several records in the Bible of the Father acting as an independent being. Jesus the Son also acted as an independent, free thinking individual who by obedience and humility, acts in complete accordance to the dictates of his Father. The Bible does not suggest same for the Holy Spirit or give an instance of the Spirit declaring that "he" willingly chooses to always do the bidding of God the Father.

- Centuries before the earthly advent of Christ, God had prophesied that He would send a saviour to His people. When this saviour came, he came in the appearance of a human, just like you and I today. But when the Spirit, which Christ had promised his disciples before his ascension, came, it never appeared as a person or lived like a human being like Christ did with mankind for over 30 years. Rather the Spirit appeared as tongues of fire on the heads of the apostles. In fact, of all the records of encounters of the Holy Spirit, both from the Old and New Testaments, not once did it appear as a person. Even angels of God have appeared to humans and spoke in intelligible language to men and women of old. But not the Holy Spirit.

Clearly, the Holy Spirit cannot be a person. This is another falsehood of Trinity. For the fact that a lie cannot stand on its own, you will need to create a web of lies to give it as much credibility as possible. That is why I am taking my time to point out the inconsistencies in the doctrine of Trinity. If the Holy Spirit is not a person, what then is it?

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God's being, an intelligence or force inherent in the very nature of God, which He shares with whoever He chooses to do His bidding. Only one individual is privileged to have received this Spirit from its very source "without measure" (John 3:34), that is Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of JEHOVAH God. All others can only access the Holy Spirit in measured quantities, right down from the Apostles to anyone who is willing to be used by it. A most apt description of the Holy Spirit is given by St. Paul when he said, "For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." - 2 Timothy 1:7.

We might not be able to understand entirely the nature of God and His purpose for man, (we do not even have the capacity to); but a true, clear and basic knowledge of His person and that of His Son, our Redeemer Christ is essential for our salvation. (John 17:3)[/qu



I can barely disagree with you.


My only argument is that Jesus was not created by God but was born or Begotten by God.

poik:
Jehovah of the Old Testament is the Jesus Christ of the new testament. Simple. One and same person, but with different offices. Trinity came from Rome, after their large pantheon of gods they worshipped, and brought it to Christianity. No Jew accepts this Trinity hogwash, anywhere in the world.
Deut 6.4- Hear, O Israel, the Lord thy God is one Lord, not three.

That's not true. Jehovah of the old testament is Almighty God the Father is the same God of the new testament and he is different from the Son, CHRIST JESUS.

Maximus69:
If your theory is correct, it will yield positive fruits! Matthew 7:15-20

So all these your arguments is futile! James 2:18-26

What impact are you talking of, I just checked and JW have only 8.5million members which cannot compare to the 25million members of Adventist Church.

Maximus69:
If your theory is correct, it will yield positive fruits! Matthew 7:15-20

So all these your arguments is futile! James 2:18-26

Stop confusing yourself, JW are no where close to some of the Pentecostal Churches when it comes to evangelism and impact.

Can you be specific on the impacts you claim you have done.

1 Corinthians 10:12
Therefore let him that thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

Secondly no matter your impact or whatever you say you have done it amounts to nothing if it does not agree with the word of God.

God so honours his word that he exalts it above his name.

Psalm 138:2 for you have exalted your Word above all your
name.


Matt 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not
prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out
devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Maximus69:
I've told you several times that the word "only begotten son" simply means the only creature directly made by God himself!

You'll continue to complicate issues by dwelling on any other meaning apart from that!

Who gave such definition or meaning?

Do you expect us to accept your personal meaning of Only BEGOTTEN Son or the dictionary meaning?

This is what happens when you refuse to accept the word of God and you try to fit the word of God to suit your preconcieved beliefs rather than to use the word of God to build or alter your beliefs.


Begotten means to give birth, bear, born.

begotten
be·​got·​ten | \ bi-ˈgä-tᵊn , bē-\
Definition of begotten (Entry 1 of 2)
past participle of BEGET
// There is no killing the suspicion that deceit has once
begotten.
— George Eliot
// This small, austerely decorated restaurant on the
unfashionable end of Melrose Avenue has begotten a
second establishment …
— Jean T. Barrett
begotten adjective
Definition of begotten (Entry 2 of 2)
: brought into existence by or as if by a parent
// "He didn't send his only begotten son through a
whirlwind …"
— Jesse Jackson
// … she was also a self-absorbed alcoholic with a
penchant for promiscuous infidelity and scant interest in
such minor matters as her only begotten child.
— Deborah Orr
— see also MISBEGOTTEN, ILL-BEGOTTEN
First Known Use of begotten
Adjective
14th century, in the meaning defined above
Keep scrolling for more
Learn More about begotten
Share begotten

begotten �
Something is begotten when it's been generated by
procreation — in other words, it's been fathered.
A somewhat old fashioned adjective, begotten is the past
participle of the verb beget, which means to father or produce
as offspring. You might recognize this word from John 3:16,
one of the most popular and most often quoted bible verses:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life."
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ASSESSMENT: 100 POINTS
begotten means :
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Definitions of
begotten
1.
adj
(of offspring) generated by procreation
“naturally begotten child”
biological
of parents and children; related by blood
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The filmmaker’s begotten a Latin American brainchild sharing
chromosomes with “Heart of Darkness” and “Lord of the Flies”
but with thunderous stylistic panache setting apart its 21st
century frenzy.
Los Angeles Times Sep 12, 2019
He blames himself for the death of his son in the Iraq war; it
was he who encouraged his only begotten to enlist.
Slate Jun 13, 2018
If Trump wants it so badly let him pay for it from his ill
begotten billions not from taxpayers hard earned money.
New York Times Mar 22, 2018
The small protest outside was highlighted by young Christian
fundamentalists holding a sign that read: “Life is ‘rotten’
without God’s only begotten /Jesus!!!”
Washington Times Jan 14, 2018
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If Jesus was created by God then that verse would have said the only first created being and not Begotten.

Janosky:
(1)
Do you agree every angel is a son of God? Job1:6. 2:1. 38:7.

(ii).
Hebrews 1:3-8, Jesus Christ was exalted above whom ?

(iii)
Hebrews 1:9,Who were his 'fellows','peers',' 'companions' that the Father exalted Jesus above them?

You are aware the Father is peerless.
Q2.
Your last sentence not true...

*Source: Biblehub.
# FORM
εἶδος (eidos)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 1491: Visible form, shape,
appearance, outward show, kind, species,
class. From eido; a view, i.e. Form."

*John5:37. 6:46. 1John4:12. Exodus 33:20.

In the heavenly realm, Yahweh is visible to all spirit beings- his son, Jesus and angels.
All spirit beings have the form (appearance ,shape ) of God.
John 4:24.
But NEVER visible to man.
Roman8:3 , God sent Jesus his son who took on the likeness of men to dwell on earth and sacrifice his life for man's redemption.

We all agree that Jesus,Angels and Man are all sons of God, the question is why did Angels and Man not inherit God's name, Divinity, or be his express image?

Janosky:
(1)
Do you agree every angel is a son of God? Job1:6. 2:1. 38:7.

(ii).
Hebrews 1:3-8, Jesus Christ was exalted above whom ?

(iii)
Hebrews 1:9,Who were his 'fellows','peers',' 'companions' that the Father exalted Jesus above them?

You are aware the Father is peerless.
Q2.
Your last sentence not true...

*Source: Biblehub.
# FORM
εἶδος (eidos)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 1491: Visible form, shape,
appearance, outward show, kind, species,
class. From eido; a view, i.e. Form."

*John5:37. 6:46. 1John4:12. Exodus 33:20.

In the heavenly realm, Yahweh is visible to all spirit beings- his son, Jesus and angels.
All spirit beings have the form (appearance ,shape ) of God.
John 4:24.
But NEVER visible to man.
Roman8:3 , God sent Jesus his son who took on the likeness of men to dwell on earth and sacrifice his life for man's redemption.

Angels are spirits like God they are also called the sons of God.
But no where are Angels called the only begotten Son of God nor are Angels said to have come out of God.

Emusan:
So if He is God and a deity.... Isn't He supposed to be worshipped and reverenced and do you worship and reverence Him?

If you do, does that not make you a polytheist?

Where did I write that Jesus should not be worshipped or reverenced?

The Bible made us to know that you cannot worship God or adore him without doing the same to Jesus.

As one worships Jesus he automatically Worships God becos they are one in unity and purpose.



E.g People honour and Revere Buhari's Sons and Children because of their fathers power and Authority if people don't respect Buhari they would never respect his Children.

So any honour given to Buhari's Children is an honour given to him(Buhari) becos of his power and authority.

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Matthew 10:40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

As we can see from the above verses God gave Jesus the Authority to receive praise and worship.

Janosky:
(1)
Do you agree every angel is a son of God? Job1:6. 2:1. 38:7.

(ii).
Hebrews 1:3-8, Jesus Christ was exalted above whom ?

(iii)
Hebrews 1:9,Who were his 'fellows','peers',' 'companions' that the Father exalted Jesus above them?

You are aware the Father is peerless.
Q2.
Your last sentence not true...

*Source: Biblehub.
# FORM
εἶδος (eidos)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 1491: Visible form, shape,
appearance, outward show, kind, species,
class. From eido; a view, i.e. Form."

*John5:37. 6:46. 1John4:12. Exodus 33:20.

In the heavenly realm, Yahweh is visible to all spirit beings- his son, Jesus and angels.
All spirit beings have the form (appearance ,shape ) of God.
John 4:24.
But NEVER visible to man.
Roman8:3 , God sent Jesus his son who took on the likeness of men to dwell on earth and sacrifice his life for man's redemption.

What a lazy analogy.

First the Word God/god is a generic name for dieties which encompasses the devil,Demons and Satan.

Just like the name Adam which means Human or Man is inherited by every person born into this world, so also the name God means a divine self existent Supreme being of the order of God(the father).
Jesus been the son of God inherited his father's God nature and name which automatically makes him God.
But rather than having two God's we have one self existent God who is Lord and father of all who has a son Jesus, who is God by Inheritance or nature.
Jesus is been totally submitted to his father.

The difference is that while God has always existed and is self existent, Jesus was brought forth or made to exist by the father at a certain time before the World began.

A snake will give birth to a snake,a lion will also beget a lion, Man beget man so also a spirit will beget a spirit.

God beget Jesus(God)



The Bible says the whole family of Heaven is named after God

First Psalms 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

The word fellows implies every thing that God the Father has brought into existence and that includes Jesus,Angels Satan and Demons and Man.

But we are told that Jesus was made better and higher than Angels and that he Inherited a better name than they. So your analogy that fellow means Jesus is also an Angel is void considering other Bible verses that describe the nature and Level,class,form of Jesus which is that of God.

solite3:
There is false trinity because satan tries to imitate God but in reality God is the only trinue being.

There is nothing like false trinity all form or teachings of trinity doctrine are false and are of pagan origin.

God is not a trinity and never told or instructed us that he was.

Janosky:
(1)
Do you agree every angel is a son of God? Job1:6. 2:1. 38:7.

(ii).
Hebrews 1:3-8, Jesus Christ was exalted above whom ?

(iii)
Hebrews 1:9,Who were his 'fellows','peers',' 'companions' that the Father exalted Jesus above them?

You are aware the Father is peerless.
Q2.
Your last sentence not true...

*Source: Biblehub.
# FORM
εἶδος (eidos)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 1491: Visible form, shape,
appearance, outward show, kind, species,
class. From eido; a view, i.e. Form."

*John5:37. 6:46. 1John4:12. Exodus 33:20.

In the heavenly realm, Yahweh is visible to all spirit beings- his son, Jesus and angels.
All spirit beings have the form (appearance ,shape ) of God.
John 4:24.
But NEVER visible to man.
Roman8:3 , God sent Jesus his son who took on the likeness of men to dwell on earth and sacrifice his life for man's redemption.

No Angel has Authority or power to forgive sin or receive worship even the Jews knew that only God can forgive sins and they challenged Jesus when he forgave the sin of People.

But they failed to understand that Jesus was the Son of God hence God by nature and has been given authority and power to forgive sins and to receive worship.


Mark 2:10 “ But that you may know that
THE SON OF MAN HAS POWER ON EARTH TO FORGIVE SINS. ”
And not just power to forgive sins. Jesus also said “ All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. ”

Matthew 28:18 And John wrote “The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into his hand. ” John 3:35

solite3:
Is it the name or the teaching that matters?
The bible presents to us God.
A God who is defined in the person a Father, in the person of a Son sent by the father and in the person of the Holy Spirit sent by both the Father and The Son, and that is what trinity is.

Trinity is not some ambiguous/ mysterious term.
Feel free to disprove it biblically.

The Holyspirit is not a person as Paul didn't include it in his greetings E.g

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.


2 Corinthians 1:2 Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:2 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: 1:2 Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

solite3:
Is it the name or the teaching that matters?
The bible presents to us God.
A God who is defined in the person a Father, in the person of a Son sent by the father and in the person of the Holy Spirit sent by both the Father and The Son, and that is what trinity is.

Trinity is not some ambiguous/ mysterious term.
Feel free to disprove it biblically.

You are on your own, because the people who documented the history of the Church acknowledged that trinity doctrine was introduced by the Usual suspects the Catholic Church and that it has no proof in the Bible.

Janosky:
Yalad
Bible / / / / /

The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 03205 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
dly a primitive root
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
** YALAD
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
yaw-lad' Verb
Definition
to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail
(Qal)
to bear, bring forth 1a
of child birth 1a
of distress (simile) 1a
of wicked (behaviour)
to beget
(Niphal) to be born
(Piel)
to cause or help to bring forth

(Pual) to be born
(Hiphil)
to beget (a child)

King James Word Usage - Total: 498
beget 201, bare 110, born 79, bring forth 25, bear 23,.... borne 3, birth "

**FACT OF THE MATTER...
Hebrew YALAD meaning 'bring forth', give birth, born, in a nutshell, CREATE
Jehovah gave birth,born, brought forth (=CREATE) the mountains and the earth.

Jehovah the Father of ALL, CREATED Jesus Christ. Ephesians 4:6. 3:14,15. Col 1:15.
Bros, you can't erase 'YALAD' from Hebrew language/lexicon.

Thank you.

You see how you twist scripture to suit your fantasy.

Every word used in the Bible must be understood from the context it is been used.

Yalad means to bear, create, beget, born, brought forth

When it is applied to a living thing it means to give birth or beget but when it is applied to a non living thing logic should tell someone who is unbaised that it means to create or make. this is simple English that everyone understands except one that is biased.



Jehovah created Jesus, a living Spirit that is the express image of Him.

But Jehovah bore , bear, and begat mountains that are inanimate things.

How does that make sense to you?

Maximus69:
@bolded is the correct translation!
Ever since you've been typing posts on this forum, you never for once use those 16th century Shakespeare grammar. Yet you confidently say that's the CORRECT translation of the Hebrew scripture into English!

Well, it's Hebrew to English and interested translators must study the language of the Jews along with their cultures and proverbial quotes before you can be 100% certain that someone's interpretation of a book written in Hebrew by Jews themselves is right or wrong!

The translation of the verse is consistent with the message of the Bible.

We all know that the Bible uses symbolism sometimes and also Idioms in express a situation.

In this very verse everyone will agree that the brought forth or bear means to create or make .

Secondly mountains are inanimate things so they cannot be born or begetton by by God.

But in the case of Jesus who is a living Spirit like God the words born,bear and beget means every single letter of what they stand for.