₦airaland Forum

Janosky:
Psalm 90:2..
"Before the mountains were born, before you gave birth to the earth and the world, from eternity to eternity, you are God."

** I have a question for you....
If " Jesus was born by God",
How did God born the mountains and "gave birth to the earth"?
Thanks.

This is the correct translations of that Bible verse.

Psalms 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.


No where did it say God bore mountains.

Janosky:
Psalm 90:2..
"Before the mountains were born, before you gave birth to the earth and the world, from eternity to eternity, you are God."

** I have a question for you....
If " Jesus was born by God",
How did God born the mountains and "gave birth to the earth"?
Thanks.

You have no argument here, you are only trying to digress.

The question is are you doubting that Proverbs 8:22 was not about Jesus?

If you deny that Proverbs 8 was not about Jesus then would you also deny the words of Jesus that he came out of God?


1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ
is BORN of God: and every one that loveth him that begat
loveth him also that is begotten of him.
Jesus also tells us that he came out from the FATHER
John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye
have loved me, and have believed that I CAME OUT from
God.
John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which
thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have
known surely that I CAME OUT from thee, and they have
believed that thou didst send me.
We have clear word of Christ on his birth and origin.


Does came out has any other meaning other than what it means?


Secondly the Bible never said God bore mountains the born there means to come into existence or to create.

But in the case of Jesus the word born means every letter of what it means because both are living beings and God's word says so.

solite3:
There is false trinity because satan tries to imitate God but in reality God is the only trinue being.

Probably the most widely held Christian
view of God is the Trinity doctrine which
has its origins in the Church of Rome
and the council of Nicea. This belief
teaches that the Father is God, the Son
is God, and the Holy Spirit is God and yet
there are not three gods but one God.
But the question remains: Is this view
found in Scripture?
The most commonly accessed
Encyclopedia on the Internet is
Wikipedia . So a “ consensus of Modern
exegetes ” tell us that both the Old and
New Testaments do not explicitly
contain the doctrine of the trinity. It
came into Christendom from another
source outside of Scripture. The
Encyclopedia Britannica basically says
the same thing as the Wikipedia. Both
tell us that the idea of the trinity came
after Scripture and from sources outside
of Scripture. The Oxford Companion to
the Bible says it “ cannot be clearly
detected within the confines of the
canon”? Is that a nice way of saying that
the Bible does not teach the doctrine of
trinity? The Columbia Electronic
Encyclopedia and the Encarta
Encyclopedia says the doctrine of the
trinity is not explicitly taught in the New
Testament. Can we base our faith purely
on inference alone? If it is a fundamental
doctrine in Christianity, it should surely
have enough evidence to have become a
doctrine! Another two from Encyclopedia
of Religion and the New International
Dictionary of New Testament Theology . If
the Bible does not teach this doctrine
then where did it come from? And last
the International Standard Bible
Dictionary . I will leave the reader to
define the word “allusion.”
Getting to the source of the trinity
doctrine. Let's go to the authority which
states that it is the source of the idea
being the Roman Catholic Church and
see if their definition has any Biblical
basis. This Roman Catholic source is
clear as to the origin of the trinity
doctrine. Scripture does not present the
idea of the trinity doctrine. It came after
the canon of Scripture was closed and
was developed in the 4th and 5th
centuries. The New Catholic
Encyclopedia puts it this way. So do we
have one God in three parts, or three
gods in one?

Janosky:
(1)
Do you agree every angel is a son of God? Job1:6. 2:1. 38:7.

(ii).
Hebrews 1:3-8, Jesus Christ was exalted above whom ?

(iii)
Hebrews 1:9,Who were his 'fellows','peers',' 'companions' that the Father exalted Jesus above them?

You are aware the Father is peerless.
Q2.
Your last sentence not true...

*Source: Biblehub.
# FORM
εἶδος (eidos)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 1491: Visible form, shape,
appearance, outward show, kind, species,
class. From eido; a view, i.e. Form."

*John5:37. 6:46. 1John4:12. Exodus 33:20.

In the heavenly realm, Yahweh is visible to all spirit beings- his son, Jesus and angels.
All spirit beings have the form (appearance ,shape ) of God.
John 4:24.
But NEVER visible to man.
Roman8:3 , God sent Jesus his son who took on the likeness of men to dwell on earth and sacrifice his life for man's redemption.

Are you trying to rearrange and reinterpret the word of God?


Here is the Verses
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?


Facts to note
*Jesus is the express image of God that means he is an exact replica of God.

*Jesus was made so much better than the Angels, from this verse we can concluded that he was not an Angel because from his making he was made better than Angels.

* How is Jesus better than Angels the answer is by Inheritance.

Jesus inherited something that no Angel has and that is God's nature,Form,class,species and Name.

*Verse 5 tells us that at no time in the history of the Universe did God ever call any Angel his Son.


1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?


Ignoring this implies that you are making God a lair.

For if Jesus was an Angel before he became God's son than the above statement becomes void and hence God is a lair.

I rather die then believe that God can lair.

Janosky:
(1)
Do you agree every angel is a son of God? Job1:6. 2:1. 38:7.

(ii).
Hebrews 1:3-8, Jesus Christ was exalted above whom ?

(iii)
Hebrews 1:9,Who were his 'fellows','peers',' 'companions' that the Father exalted Jesus above them?

You are aware the Father is peerless.
Q2.
Your last sentence not true...

*Source: Biblehub.
# FORM
εἶδος (eidos)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 1491: Visible form, shape,
appearance, outward show, kind, species,
class. From eido; a view, i.e. Form."

*John5:37. 6:46. 1John4:12. Exodus 33:20.

In the heavenly realm, Yahweh is visible to all spirit beings- his son, Jesus and angels.
All spirit beings have the form (appearance ,shape ) of God.
John 4:24.
But NEVER visible to man.
Roman8:3 , God sent Jesus his son who took on the likeness of men to dwell on earth and sacrifice his life for man's redemption.

Why do you guys like jumping facts inorder to prove your personal beliefs?

FORM
εἶδος (eidos)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 1491: Visible form, shape,
appearance, outward show, kind, species,
class. From eido; a view, i.e. Form."


It will mean hypocrisy for you to pick at of all the possible meaning of (FORM )the one that suits your personal beliefs and not one that agree with every word of God.

Form can also mean kind,species,class.

When you allow the Bible to explain or interpret itself.

The verse Philippians 2:5 becomes clear

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in
Christ Jesus: 2:6 Who, being in the FORM( means who is in class,kind,species of God) God
thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 2:7 But
made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the
form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled
himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death
of the cross.

means who is in class,kind,species of God

The question is are there any Angel in the class or kind, or nature of God? the answer is NO.


Further evidence to prove this point is that Jesus is called God in John 1:1 says, In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with the God and the Word was God.

Another evidence is the fact that Jesus has in him the fullness of the Godhead that is God's divinity, does any Angel has that?

Colossians 2:9
For in him dwells all the fullness of the Deity bodily.

Jesus also has Immortality in his divine nature he cannot die and that is the reason while he had to come in human nature becos he has the life of God which Angels don't have, Angels can die.

John 5:26

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the
Son to have life in himself;

Maximus69:
Perfection!

If that's where you're going then there is no need for this thread in the first place!

You should have accepted all religious doctrines formed in Jesus name as good to go without asking any question!

Remember that's the main problem the first century religious sect called Pharisees had back then, they reasoned that God can't just organize some people (who have committed blunders in the past) into a new group and expect everyone to join them. They felt this people have made grievous mistakes in the past! Luke 15:11-32

We are talking about the same Jesus now!

After the establishment of the first Christian congregation, many of those who formally thought the group is imperfect humbled themselves, abandoned their priestly offices in the condemned Temple and joined the new group. Act 6:7

But how come those who had offices in the Temple left their priestly offices to join the Christians?

Apart from the fact that the group has made several mistakes in the past they were seeing all the prophecies concerning the group God promised in the end time fulfilled amongst the Christians, so they had no excuses!

Peter who made several mistakes in the past was the chief spokesman of the Christian faith, Paul who had persecuted the Christians in the past was their chief Missionary. But the group was making progress as members are known to be preaching and teaching zealously and making peace loving disciples in every land.

So do not allow the mistakes of Jehovah's Witnesses organization in the past blur your spiritual vision NOT to see the accomplishments of God's people today! Matthew 5:14-16, John 13:34-35, 17:20-23

Satan has fallen! That's why all the religious groups he formed are loosing their weight today, and he is now gathering the particles of those false religious sects (false Christians) against true Christians (Jehovah's Witnesses) since that's the only lamp stand (light) that everyone now SEE on top of the roof! Isaiah 2:1 compared to Matthew 5:14-16

Don't digress from the matter at hand. the argument or bone of contention is that your church doctrine on the existence and relationship of God to his son Jesus does not totally agree with the Bible, I expect you to look at it objectively without bias and make your conclusion in respective of your church opinion.

Emusan:
Look at the attached pix below and tell us, the type of deity Jesus is.

Is it like the polytheistic as "a god or goddess" (Which make you a polytheist) OR like a monotheist "the Supreme, the Creator e.t.c?

Then you'll see the reason why your own organization trying to change their view about Trinity as you said.

You are confused .

Jesus is God and a deity by the virtue of been born by God.

solite3:
yap, you got any problem with that?

Pure Pagan doctrine by the usual suspects.

I bet you do not know the origin of trinity doctrine you are only following what your church indoctrinated into you like a sheepie.

solite3:
The biblical evidence points to Jesus as being the Son of God who is God incarnated.
The Son of a lion is a lion
The Son of man is a man
The Son of Almighty God is Almighty God.

See analogy.



Is the Son of the same age with the Father?

solite3:
The trinity is the only Logical explanation of God in the bible.
Your statement is full of bibical contradiction, if only you would lool at the scripture and learn you are in error

How is it logical when your Church calls it a mystery that cannot be understood?

You trinitarians throw hundreds of Bible verses away in order to accommodate your fraud doctrine and you claim it is logical.

solite3:
The Trinity is not belief in three gods There is only one God, and we must never stray from this.
This one God exists as three Persons.
The three Persons are not each part of God, but are each fully God and equally God. Within God’s one undivided being there is an “unfolding” into three interpersonal relationships such that there are three Persons. The distinctions within the Godhead are not distinctions of his essence and neither are they something added onto his essence, but they are the unfolding of God’s one, undivided being into three interpersonal relationships such that there are three real Persons.
God is not one person who took three consecutive roles. That is the heresy of modalism. The Father did not become the Son and then the Holy Spirit. Instead, there have always been and always will be three distinct persons in the Godhead.
The Trinity is not a contradiction because God is not three in the same way that he is one. God is one in essence, three in Person.
The Trinity is first of all important because God is important. To understand more fully what God is like is a way of honoring God. Further, we should allow the fact that God is triune to deepen our worship. We exist to worship God. And God seeks people to worship him “in spirit and truth” (John 4:24). Therefore, we must always endeavor to deepen our worship of God — in truth as well as in our hearts.

The Trinity has a very significant application to prayer. The general pattern of prayer in the Bible is to pray to the Father through the Son and in the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 2:18). Our fellowship with God should be enhanced by consciously knowing that we are relating to a tri-personal God!

Awareness of the distinct role that each Person of the Trinity has in our salvation can especially serve to give us greater comfort and appreciation for God in our prayers, as well as helping us to be specific in directing our prayers. Nonetheless, while recognizing the distinct roles that each Person has, we should never think of their roles as so separate that the other Persons are not involved. Rather, everything that one Person is involved in, the other two are also involved in, one way or another.

And one might also ask. Why do some
have this mindset that Jesus must be
inferior or not God just because He is
literally God's Son and was brought forth
before the creation of all things? It does
not change who Christ is or what He has
done or that He is God's Son who loves
us so much that He laid down His life for
us. It also does not change His God
nature or His divinity that He got from
His Father by inheritance. He is of the
very same substance of His Father and
hence has the same God nature of His
Father as He possesses by birth all the
attributes of His Father. A son also
rightfully takes the name of the father
and Christ as the only begotten Son of
God has rightfully the same name.
Hebrews 1:1-9 says that Jesus is an heir
who has by inheritance obtained a more
excellent name than the angels and that
name is God! So Jesus inherited His
Father's name, character and divine
nature in the same way a human son
inherits the human nature and name of
his parents. It is Satan that tries to give
us the wrong mindset here, sowing
wrong thoughts into our mind that
ultimately has many deny that He is the
literal Son of God.

Emusan:
You're the one who created this thread to proof Trinity isn't Biblical yet see your position above.

So you can later agree that Jesus is a deity....

Just waooooooo

You people are now against one another, very funny.

And one might also ask. Why do some
have this mindset that Jesus must be
inferior or not God just because He is
literally God's Son and was brought forth
before the creation of all things? It does
not change who Christ is or what He has
done or that He is God's Son who loves
us so much that He laid down His life for
us. It also does not change His God
nature or His divinity that He got from
His Father by inheritance. He is of the
very same substance of His Father and
hence has the same God nature of His
Father as He possesses by birth all the
attributes of His Father. A son also
rightfully takes the name of the father
and Christ as the only begotten Son of
God has rightfully the same name.
Hebrews 1:1-9 says that Jesus is an heir
who has by inheritance obtained a more
excellent name than the angels and that
name is God! So Jesus inherited His
Father's name, character and divine
nature in the same way a human son
inherits the human nature and name of
his parents. It is Satan that tries to give
us the wrong mindset here, sowing
wrong thoughts into our mind that
ultimately has many deny that He is the
literal Son of God.

solite3:
the cearest place in the bible God spoke with all persons on the God head is Genesis 1vv26, Genesis 3 vv 22 , and Genesis 11vv7

In your imagination.

Blabbermouth:
@the bolded..... Can you see again?...HIS SPIRIT. He owns the spirit. GOD IS SPIRIT (1 John). A person is NEVER possessed by another person.
You have a body
You have a soul/spirit.
Everything you can attribute to yourself (as you stated in the other thread) can be attributed to your soul/spirit. Is the soul/spirit therefore a separate entity from you? No!!! Can it exist outside of you? No!!!. In fact, when you say "I am angry" who is angry?. When you say "MY spirit is angry" who is angry?.
The spirit is never a person!!!!!
The spirit is God's own spirit.
Don't turn the scriptures to suit you. It is not "The spirit and God" {as we have in the case of "the father and son "} it is " The spirit of God " or the "Holyspirt (which is the spirit of God).
Re-read and God bless you.

I Concur.

solite3:
The Trinity is not belief in three gods There is only one God, and we must never stray from this.
This one God exists as three Persons.
The three Persons are not each part of God, but are each fully God and equally God. Within God’s one undivided being there is an “unfolding” into three interpersonal relationships such that there are three Persons. The distinctions within the Godhead are not distinctions of his essence and neither are they something added onto his essence, but they are the unfolding of God’s one, undivided being into three interpersonal relationships such that there are three real Persons.
God is not one person who took three consecutive roles. That is the heresy of modalism. The Father did not become the Son and then the Holy Spirit. Instead, there have always been and always will be three distinct persons in the Godhead.
The Trinity is not a contradiction because God is not three in the same way that he is one. God is one in essence, three in Person.
The Trinity is first of all important because God is important. To understand more fully what God is like is a way of honoring God. Further, we should allow the fact that God is triune to deepen our worship. We exist to worship God. And God seeks people to worship him “in spirit and truth” (John 4:24). Therefore, we must always endeavor to deepen our worship of God — in truth as well as in our hearts.

The Trinity has a very significant application to prayer. The general pattern of prayer in the Bible is to pray to the Father through the Son and in the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 2:18). Our fellowship with God should be enhanced by consciously knowing that we are relating to a tri-personal God!

Awareness of the distinct role that each Person of the Trinity has in our salvation can especially serve to give us greater comfort and appreciation for God in our prayers, as well as helping us to be specific in directing our prayers. Nonetheless, while recognizing the distinct roles that each Person has, we should never think of their roles as so separate that the other Persons are not involved. Rather, everything that one Person is involved in, the other two are also involved in, one way or another.

Hear yourself their is only one God that exists in three persons .

Maximus69:
@blueAgent.

Jesus' words was easy for his contemporaries to grasp, that's why he quickly made friends and enemies also sufficed simultaneously!

He used a TREE to illustrate pure worship, most of his listeners were farmers and fishermen so it was easy for them to understand him.

For instance, the purpose of planting a tree back then is NOT for decoration but for production of fruits. Anyone arguing about how a TREE should be planted is given an audience because we all need to know how to get the benefits of what we're planting. But after a tree has been planted in the midst of thousands of other trees, and the tree have yielded so much of the expected fruit, when other trees are having problems bearing fruits, please do you think any right thinking person will listen to whoever condemns the strategy used in planting the tree that's yielding fruit at it's proper time? Matthew 24:45, Luke 12:42

Well Jesus said after he has sown the fine seed, Satan also came (when men were sleeping) to plant weeds, Jesus' workers asked if they should go out there to uproot the weeds. Jesus told them to allow everything to grow until the harvest, then the fine seed will become VISIBLE in the midst of useless weeds! Matthew 13:24-30

Christianity was the fine seed, Falsehood was the weed, after the dead of all the Apostles (when men were sleeping) Satan successfully planted weeds. Every farmer know that in such a scenario the weeds will outnumber the fine seeds, so true Christianity disappeared after the death of the Apostles, until the harvest (end time) now is the time of harvesting. While all other religious groups are having problems maintaining their oneness, all their members are advocating for none~denominationalism. This means members are tired of sticking to the teachings of their respective religious leaders and they're now clamoring for mixing everything together so that no specific doctrine is uphold apart from the general conception! Matthew 24:12

But they're noticing that there still remains one religious group that's standing tall and the members are zealously and faithfully keeping to the teachings of their own leaders!
Jehovah's Witnesses keep waxing strong and the whole world can see that this organization is penetrating all nations, making strong disciples and loyal worshippers for their God. John 17:20-23

That's why all of them are now criticising the one and only group VISIBLY standing for everyone to SEE! Matthew 5:14-16

Do you know that your Church or organization is not perfect ?

johnydon22:
I think you are confusing Trinitarian doctrine with Unitarian doctrine.

Trinitarian doctrine does not say God the father, Son and Holy Ghost are one person. That's the opposite of what they say.

The doctrine states that God the father is a different person from the Son who in turn is different from the HG

But they are all together God.

Unitarian however says that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one person.

Don't conflate the two doctrines

That does not make the trinity doctrine right.

The truth remains that only God the Father is the only self existent God, Jesus is the Son who is also God by Inheritance , the Holy spirit is not God but the spirit of God and all three are not co-eternal or equal as claimed by the fraud trinity doctrine.

johnydon22:
Biblically, the holy spirit is implied to be a person or at least a distinct agent.

Besides, wouldn't the spirit of God be God?

I do not think the spirit of a being is distinct from the same being.

And spirit connotes duality of being.

There is no Scripture that says the Holy
Spirit is God or that the Holy Spirit is a
literal being as decided by this council in
381 A.D. And to later justify what was
decided by saying that the Holy Spirit
can be grieved, so therefore the Spirit of
God must be a person is not theology!
That is red fire engine logic. That is, fire
engines are red, my car is red, therefore
my car is a fire engine. What Paul said
on the other hand is Biblical, “For who
among men knows the thoughts of a man
except the man's spirit within him? In the
same way no one knows the thoughts of
God except the Spirit of God .” 1
Corinthians 2:11 NIV. Here Paul likens
the spirit of man to the Spirit of God.
Just as a man has a spirit, God also has
a Spirit in the same manner, and His
Spirit is the part of Him associated with
the mind, will, and emotions the same
as a man. My spirit can also be grieved
but that does not make my spirit another
person any more than it does God'

Quoting Acts 5:3-4 is also red fire engine
logic. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God
and thus is from God. This is why Peter
showed that to lie to the Spirit of God
that revealed the deception, is to lie to
the Almighty God Himself as it is His
Spirit.
For Adventists: Does Acts 5:3-4 say the
Holy Spirit is god or that they lied to the
“almighty God” as it is His Spirit? “Peter
asked, “Was it not thine own?” thus
showing that no undue influence had
been brought to bear upon Ananias and
Sapphira to compel them to sacrifice
their possessions to the general good.
They had acted from choice. But in
pretending to be wrought upon by the
Holy Ghost, and attempting to deceive
the apostles, they had lied to the
Almighty. ” — (E.G. White, 3SP 285.1)
“In giving us His Spirit, God gives us
Himself, ” — (E.G. White, 7T 273.1, 1902)
A true Christian studies and follows the
Word of God. Not put their trust in man
let alone men with little or no understanding of God's word.

Emusan:
You're the one who created this thread to proof Trinity isn't Biblical yet see your position above.

So you can later agree that Jesus is a deity....

Just waooooooo

You people are now against one another, very funny.

Where in my article or thread did I say Jesus is not a deity?

Maximus69:
The only way to know if you're getting it right is the outcome of your explanations. If your interpretation is correct, then your audience will find it easy to apply and everyone will see the benefits of divine wisdom.
But if it's incorrect then you will only be an eloquent motivational speaker whose words moves people into wrong action yet there won't be any visible benefits!

Well that's the interpretation of the Watchtower society and it's what has been helping them to form a global family of peace loving worshippers just as Jesus prayed! John 17:20-23

Of course if it's incorrect, there is no way human wisdom can bring people from different nationalities together to form one body as in a big happy global family! Matthew 7:15-20

Do not be carried away by the visible benefit or the population of your Church.

God takes no delight in false or wrong doctrine, no matter how long it has been believed or accepted.

Even majority of Catholics believe that they are on the right path with God but they are not when viewed from the light of the word of God, but they are millions of such Catholics yet it does not make their doctrine right or acceptable before God.


Am an Adventist but unfortunately this trinity doctrine has crept into the Adventist Church which was not accepted or taught by the early Church leaders like Ellen G. White.

As you can see am not towing along the line that Adventist has accepted the doctrine and has made a lot of impact therefore it is ok.
No, God is calling those who can bring change in Christendom he is looking for those who can stand tall and oppose all false teachings that cannot be explained through the word of God starting from their own family or Church.

If you observe that in your argument you had to neglect or change the literal meaning of some words of the Bible inorder to present your case, in my points or argument every Bible verse concerning the existence of Jesus was duly considered that's because all my points agree and God who wrote the Bible is not an author of confusion.
e.g you don't accept the literal meaning of beget or Came out, becos it did not favour your argument that shows that your argument was faulty.

Some Bible points to ponder on.

James 4:4
Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that
friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever
therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself
an enemy of God.

Matthew 7:13
Enter in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad
is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be
who go in there:

Ezekiel 22:30
So I sought for a man among them who would make a
wall, and stand in the gap before Me on behalf of the land,
that I should not destroy it; but I found no one.

Anas09:
Trinity is too much if a mystery to discuss with people who take the Bible to be a literal. Just forget it.

But, remember, if you die and in your mind you believe they are three person in one God, you will be termed an idolater, and won't be allowed into the kingdom of God.

God is One. Jesus is the manifestation of Jehovah. He is the Holy Spirit.

It will confuse you more if I begin to explain to you what He meant when he refered to YHWH as His father and Him being sent.

Just know that right now as we speak, Jesus is not a separate entity from YHWH in heaven. They are no two or three (God) personalities in heaven.

There's only One God abd His name is Jesus.

This is just Human explanation not Bible.

solite3:
If you understand what trinity is this is not even a question. By the way Jesus doesnt need to be in heaven to governer it.

Really?

You claim to understand it yet the Catholic Church and Bible commentators label it a mystery that cannot be understood.

It's obvious you are on your on.

Blabbermouth:
To a deep extent, you are right about the holy spirit!!!! I just haven't gotten to explaining that aspect....
God THE SPIRIT.. Doesn't mean the spirit is separate, it's just to say that God (is still) the holy spirit as the spirit is HIS(possessive pronoun).. Just as your mind is still YOU "blueAgent" and not a separate person of it's own. The mind is your physical spirit, the software of your physical form . Therefore you are your mind, and YOU and your mind are one (same person).
GOD THE FATHER... The bible tells us times without numbers that God is our heavenly father and our Father is God. So in simple sentence; God (is) the father.
In this way, I am right but is this how everyone sees the Trinity
Thus the title of this thread: The trinity confusion.
Do you now concur with this;
God is the Father, God is the spirit, and God is in the Son..

All through the Bible the spirit is reffered to as the Spirit of God, I think it is better we stick to that.

There is big difference in saying Mr John is a dog and saying Mr John's dog.

solite3:
Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Note that He said in the 'name' of the father, Son and Holy ghost not 'names' which means they are one being.

Jesus has been the Son of God from eternity,

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.



The word was with God, denoting distinct identity from the father Son and Holy ghost.

The trinity of God is seen from Genesis

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

God said Let us create man in our image
Compare
And then we read that God created man in his image.
Meaning the 'us' there is plurality of persons but one God.

These and many more proves that God actually is a plurality of persons.


Matthew 3:16
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Do you see the trinity in the above verse?
1. Jesus been baptise
2. The Holy Spirit descending on Jesus like a dove
3. A voice representing the father talking from heaven.


Jesus prayed to the father and addresses the father as a separate person

Jesus talk of the Holy Spirit as a seprate person not a false distinct from the Father who will come to fill the believer.

John 12:28
Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Jesus is not a half God half human but fully God fully human united together but not mixed. His position as the Son of the Father is from eternity.

God gave us his Son meaning Jesus was already the Son even before his incarnation.

The summary is it all is that God is a trinue being meaning a being that exist in three perons.
The implication of this is that God acts in three persons or exist in three consciousness but aware of his unity as one Being.

I cannot see any trinity here .

Only a Catholic will claim to see trinity were there is none becos it is their creation.

Blabbermouth:
It is not "God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit" it should rather be put as
"God the Father, God in the son,and God the holy spirit"....

Note: There is nothing like God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit in the Bible.

I agree with you that Jesus came out from the father, as this can be proved with Bible verses and Jesus on words.

but the Holyspirit is not a God but the spirit of God, it is not a person distinct as the father and son are, but it is the spirit of God and his son which represents their presence,power, will, mind.

Note no where in the Bible are we told to worship or pray to the Holyspirit.

Blabbermouth:
Who then has an answer to this questions??
IF Jesus was God-The father;
1. When Jesus came to earth in flesh, who was directing the affairs in heaven? Or Was there still God in heaven when Jesus came to die for our sins?
2. Every prayers and reverences Jesus made while on earth, to whom was it directed to? Was it to himself?
{As Christians, do not confuse yourself with foolish doctrines. For you have only one teacher which is Christ. And remember Christ is the word of God (Bible itself). Therefore, anything that doesn't go in line with what the bible has stated is foolishness and poisonous to our maturity}

I have never seen trinitarians answer this questions.

Blabbermouth:
The Jehovah witness body believes that Jesus Christ is not the Most-High-God while some other christian body believes that Jesus Christ is God himself. Who is right and who is wrong?
The answer is, NO ONE IS WRONG. It just depends on the basis from which you have stated your view.
Heb 1:8
But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom."
John 1:1
"In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and THE WORD WAS GOD"
The above bible verses are one of the core reasons some Christian believe that Jesus Christ is actually God-The father.
THE ENLIGHTENMENT I {Who is Christ}
Out of the rib of man was the woman formed, so that in many likeness, she shall be like the Man. Out of the spirit was the word formed and of the word was Christ formed {made manifest as flesh and given an entity of his own}. Thus, Christ became an independent personality of his own.

Do you know what God saw in Christ? He saw His reflection, his exact imprint of nature and the radiance of His own Glory (Check out Heb 1:3) and for this , God was most pleased with him and he gave him the greatest honor of all. He begat Christ and made him his Son. And it was made established that Christ is the son of the Most-High-God. There is so much more to this, he that reads let him learn.
Well, let us shed more light...
On the keys......

True, I concur.

Maximus69:
It's simple Sir!

God has many spirit beings as sons! Genesis 6:1, Job 1:6

According to the illustration the vineyard's owner is God, the caretakers are the Jewish religious leaders who were given the responsibility to take care of God's vineyard {pure worship depicted by the Temple} his first born son (Jesus) is to inherit all his father's properties and care for all other children with love.

The caretakers have mistreated the vineyards and made it unproductive ~ meaning they have profaned God's temple by turning the place into their personal business unit! Matthew 12:12, Mark 11:15, John 2:15

With these action of Jesus these people realized that Jesus is that promised heir to David's throne whose rulership will last forever! Isaiah 9:7

So they conspired to get him killed { John 11:47-53} they thought God had no choice than to send another person (who will condone all their activities) as the Christ but they don't want Jesus, As Abraham's descendants they thought they can set standards for God! John 8:33

All these boils down to the same point. Jesus (Michael as a spirit being) took it upon himself to come as a human to redeem mankind from sin { Daniel 12:1} since no human is qualified to do so {Psalms 49:7-9} as descendants of Adam, we've all inherited sin! Romans 5:12

That's why all those demons feared him { Luke 4: 34} because they all knew his position back in heaven! Jude 9
Even the scriptures made it clear that Jesus will come with the voice of an archangel {1Thessalonians 4:16}

Please why must he come with the voice of an archangel? Why not the voice of something more ponderous if he's not the same Michael (the archangel)?

At Revelation 12:7 there John {a born again Christian who now have a special relationship with God} saw that the great prince who leads the heavenly host against Satan and his demons is none other than this same Michael! John even said Michael and his angels,

Please was Michael (the archangel) not an angel? Did the scriptures call any one else archangel apart from Michael? How come he now have his own angels?

So he is an angel but unlike all other heavenly creatures he is the first born son of God as in the one and only creature God made directly when he was alone!

God bless you!

The angels are sons of
God, as was Adam (Job 38:7; Luke 3:38),
by creation; Christians are the sons of
God by adoption (Rom. 8:14,15); but
CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD BY BIRTH.


As a prolific Seventh day Adventist
minister and evangelist said, “Christ is
the only LITERAL SON OF GOD. “The only
begotten of the Father.” John 1:14. HE IS
GOD BECAUSE HE IS THE SON OF GOD;
not by virtue of his resurrection.” — (J.G.
Matteson, RH , Oct 12, 1869)

As a prolific Seventh day Adventist
minister and evangelist said, “Christ is
the only LITERAL SON OF GOD. “The only
begotten of the Father.” John 1:14. HE IS
GOD BECAUSE HE IS THE SON OF GOD;
not by virtue of his resurrection.” — (J.G.
Matteson, RH , Oct 12, 1869)
.

Maximus69:
It's simple Sir!

God has many spirit beings as sons! Genesis 6:1, Job 1:6

According to the illustration the vineyard's owner is God, the caretakers are the Jewish religious leaders who were given the responsibility to take care of God's vineyard {pure worship depicted by the Temple} his first born son (Jesus) is to inherit all his father's properties and care for all other children with love.

The caretakers have mistreated the vineyards and made it unproductive ~ meaning they have profaned God's temple by turning the place into their personal business unit! Matthew 12:12, Mark 11:15, John 2:15

With these action of Jesus these people realized that Jesus is that promised heir to David's throne whose rulership will last forever! Isaiah 9:7

So they conspired to get him killed { John 11:47-53} they thought God had no choice than to send another person (who will condone all their activities) as the Christ but they don't want Jesus, As Abraham's descendants they thought they can set standards for God! John 8:33

All these boils down to the same point. Jesus (Michael as a spirit being) took it upon himself to come as a human to redeem mankind from sin { Daniel 12:1} since no human is qualified to do so {Psalms 49:7-9} as descendants of Adam, we've all inherited sin! Romans 5:12

That's why all those demons feared him { Luke 4: 34} because they all knew his position back in heaven! Jude 9
Even the scriptures made it clear that Jesus will come with the voice of an archangel {1Thessalonians 4:16}

Please why must he come with the voice of an archangel? Why not the voice of something more ponderous if he's not the same Michael (the archangel)?

At Revelation 12:7 there John {a born again Christian who now have a special relationship with God} saw that the great prince who leads the heavenly host against Satan and his demons is none other than this same Michael! John even said Michael and his angels,

Please was Michael (the archangel) not an angel? Did the scriptures call any one else archangel apart from Michael? How come he now have his own angels?

So he is an angel but unlike all other heavenly creatures he is the first born son of God as in the one and only creature God made directly when he was alone!

God bless you!

Your analogy is really laughable.

Christ coming in the voice of an Archangel does not make him an Angel.

The word Arch means chief or commander, you will agree with me that Jesus is the chief and commander of all Angels and not just Angels alone but all power and principalities.

Maximus69:
It's simple Sir!

God has many spirit beings as sons! Genesis 6:1, Job 1:6

According to the illustration the vineyard's owner is God, the caretakers are the Jewish religious leaders who were given the responsibility to take care of God's vineyard {pure worship depicted by the Temple} his first born son (Jesus) is to inherit all his father's properties and care for all other children with love.

The caretakers have mistreated the vineyards and made it unproductive ~ meaning they have profaned God's temple by turning the place into their personal business unit! Matthew 12:12, Mark 11:15, John 2:15

With these action of Jesus these people realized that Jesus is that promised heir to David's throne whose rulership will last forever! Isaiah 9:7

So they conspired to get him killed { John 11:47-53} they thought God had no choice than to send another person (who will condone all their activities) as the Christ but they don't want Jesus, As Abraham's descendants they thought they can set standards for God! John 8:33

All these boils down to the same point. Jesus (Michael as a spirit being) took it upon himself to come as a human to redeem mankind from sin { Daniel 12:1} since no human is qualified to do so {Psalms 49:7-9} as descendants of Adam, we've all inherited sin! Romans 5:12

That's why all those demons feared him { Luke 4: 34} because they all knew his position back in heaven! Jude 9
Even the scriptures made it clear that Jesus will come with the voice of an archangel {1Thessalonians 4:16}

Please why must he come with the voice of an archangel? Why not the voice of something more ponderous if he's not the same Michael (the archangel)?

At Revelation 12:7 there John {a born again Christian who now have a special relationship with God} saw that the great prince who leads the heavenly host against Satan and his demons is none other than this same Michael! John even said Michael and his angels,

Please was Michael (the archangel) not an angel? Did the scriptures call any one else archangel apart from Michael? How come he now have his own angels?

So he is an angel but unlike all other heavenly creatures he is the first born son of God as in the one and only creature God made directly when he was alone!

God bless you!

In Hebrews 1:1-9 we note that the
speaker is God the Father and that He is
addressing His Son and calling Him
“God.”
Verse 2 says that Christ was “appointed
heir” of all things. An “HEIR” of course is
someone who receives an “inheritance”
from someone. In this case Christ the
Son received an “INHERITANCE” from
His Father.
But what did He receive?
His “NAME,” His authority and His
power! In other words, Jesus being the
one and only begotten Son of the living
God received by virtue of His birth all of
the attributes that His Father possessed.
Verse 4 says, “Being made so much
better than the angels, as he has by
“INHERITANCE” obtained a more
excellent “NAME” than they. ” Verse 8
says that this more excellent “ NAME” is
the name “God,” which was given by the
Father to His Son. “Unto the Son He
[God] saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever
and ever. ”
And so this name “He has by
“INHERITANCE.” It is not a “NAME” that
was bestowed but a “NAME” that was
“INHERITED” from His Father.
Christ not only inherited His name but
other things as well. Name means
authority (Mark 11:9, John 5:43), and it
also means character and nature
(Exodus 33:18-19, Exodus 34:5-6). The
name Adam means human for example.
When people have children, they not only
inherit the name of their parents but they
also inherit the nature of the parents,
which of course is human nature. In like
manner, Jesus inherited the same name
as His Father, just as a child inherits the
name of the parents, and He also
inherits the nature of His Father, which
is His divine nature.
Christ also inherits His Father's life. “For
as the Father has life in himself; so has
he given to the Son to have life in
himself. ” John 5:26 . If Jesus had always
existed alongside the Father as the
Trinity doctrine claims, then God could
not have given life to His Son as He
would have always had life. But
Scripture reveals this is impossible.
Thus there is only “ONE” true God.
Jesus is “NOT” the God, He is the “Son
of God.” He carries the “NAME” of God
by virtue of His “INHERITANCE.” And
because He is the Son of God, He is
“EQUAL” with God.
Note that Ellen G. White endorsed what
this Adventist pioneer wrote below who
also explains very clearly.
“This name [God] was not given to Christ
in consequence of some great
achievement, but it is His by right of
inheritance.
Speaking of the power and greatness of
Christ, the writer to the Hebrews says
that He is made so much better than the
angels, because “He hath by inheritance
obtained a more excellent name than
they.” Heb. 1:4.
A son always rightfully takes the name of
the father; and Christ, as “the only
begotten Son of God,” has rightfully the
same name.
A son, also, is, to a greater or less
degree, a reproduction of the father; he
has, to some extent, the features and
personal characteristics of his father; not
perfectly, because there is no perfect
reproduction among mankind. But there
is no imperfection in God, or in any of His
works; and so Christ is the “express
image” of the Father's person. Heb. 1:3.
As the Son of the self-existent God, he
has by nature all the attributes of Deity.
It is true that there are many sons of God;
but Christ is the “only begotten Son of
God,” and therefore the Son of God in a
sense in which no other being ever was,
or ever can be.
The angels are sons of God, as was
Adam (Job 38:7; Luke 3:38), by creation;
Christians are the sons of God by
adoption (Rom. 8:14,15);
but CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD BY
BIRTH.
The writer to the Hebrews further shows
that the position of the Son of God is not
one to which Christ has been elevated,
but that it is one which He has by right. ”
— (E.J. Waggoner, CAHR , p. 11-12)

Maximus69:
The import of that scripture is that there is no angel God presented to humans as his son! This means no angel is qualified to teach humans how to worship God, so all those worshiping in line with the instructions from angelic beings are doomed!

Jesus was presented to us as God's son, this means whatever we want to do regarding sacred services must never go contrary to what Jesus instruct us to do! Matthew 17:5

That's why anyone who feels that it's OK to worship in any other way NOT commanded by Jesus (the one and only person God presented as his son) will be condemned!

But as for angels, the scriptures made it clear that they're all God's sons. Genesis 6:1, Job 1:6
He didn't introduce or present any of them to us because we have no business with them right from the beginning, had it been our first parents were obedient to God.
We wouldn't have needed Jesus to come here in the first place talkless any other angels! Note that the first time angels appeared was after the event in Eden, otherwise there is no reason for us to see, talk or deal with angels. Their permanent home is heaven where spirit dwells while our own permanent home is earth where flesh dwells! Psalms 115:16

And in Colossians 2:9 the Greek word
translated Godhead is “theotēs” (G2320)
and means deity as in the state of being
God.
Colossians 2:9 KJV “For in him dwelleth
all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
So the word Godhead speaks of the
“Divine nature” of the Father which has
been given to the Son and hence is in
the Son as we find in Colossians 2:9
above. Thus Jesus being the firstborn
over all creation ( Colossians 1:15 ), and
being brought forth from the Father, He
has the same “Divine nature” as His
Father.
Colossians 1:19 KJV “For it pleased the
Father that in him should all fulness
dwell; ”

Maximus69:
The import of that scripture is that there is no angel God presented to humans as his son! This means no angel is qualified to teach humans how to worship God, so all those worshiping in line with the instructions from angelic beings are doomed!

Jesus was presented to us as God's son, this means whatever we want to do regarding sacred services must never go contrary to what Jesus instruct us to do! Matthew 17:5

That's why anyone who feels that it's OK to worship in any other way NOT commanded by Jesus (the one and only person God presented as his son) will be condemned!

But as for angels, the scriptures made it clear that they're all God's sons. Genesis 6:1, Job 1:6
He didn't introduce or present any of them to us because we have no business with them right from the beginning, had it been our first parents were obedient to God.
We wouldn't have needed Jesus to come here in the first place talkless any other angels! Note that the first time angels appeared was after the event in Eden, otherwise there is no reason for us to see, talk or deal with angels. Their permanent home is heaven where spirit dwells while our own permanent home is earth where flesh dwells! Psalms 115:16

Your explanation is contrary to the established fact that Jesus has the fullness of the Godhead (divinity)

Colossians 2:9 ►

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

How is that possible for an Angel.