₦airaland Forum

Ihedinobi: ^^^ na wa u o, bros. Wetin concern wetin I talk concern Rev 1:1? I talked about your thesis on Hebrews 1 na.

I hope you're not a selective reader. Do well to peruse again my post demanding that you reconcile your explanation of Hebrews 1 with the Scriptural text itself. When you have sorted yourself out there, I will show you more trouble in your explanations for you to deal with.

May be you should read my explanation of Hebrew 1 again and tell me what is false in it. If you can't find any, just believe it. It will help you to see more truth in the word of God.

I think your brethren in trinity are now getting the gist. It will be good if you join them and get the gist also.

Hebrews 1:1-12
1 God, who at various times and
in various ways spoke in time
past to the fathers BY THE
PROPHETS,
2 has in these last days spoken to
us BY HIS SON, whom He has
appointed heir of all things,
through whom also He made
the worlds;....

How does this contradict revelation1:1, that God gave revelation to our lord Jesus and Jesus made it known to us by means of His angels. How is different from what a minister will say before introducing his presidents speech.
It is in simple English. God gave them to Christ.

Chuksxp:
-----------------------------------------
In the year that King Uzziah
died, I saw the Lord seated on a
throne, high and exalted, and
the train of his robe filled the
temple. Above him were
seraphs, each with six wings:
With two wings they covered
their faces, with two they
covered their feet, and with
two they were flying. And they
were calling to one another:
“Holy, holy, holy is the LORD
Almighty; the whole earth is
full of his glory.” At the sound
of their voices the doorposts
and thresholds shook and the
temple was filled with smoke. ~
Isaiah 6:1-4
Isaiah said this because he saw
Jesus’ glory and spoke about
him. ~ John 12:41
------------------------------------------

The glory of the person Isaiah saw is the glory of God Almighty not Jesus. Isaiah 6:1-4 is just a description of what we have in Rev 4:7-8.

If you read rev 5:6-7. You will see the One that seats on the throne and what our lord Jesus(the lamb) collected from Him- a message from Him to us.

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the
midst of the throne and of the
four beasts, and in the midst of
the elders, stood a Lamb as it
had been slain, having seven
horns and seven eyes, which are
the seven Spirits of God sent
forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book
out of the right hand of him that
sat upon the throne.

I will advice you use other bible translations to compare and contrast so that you wunt be misled by people protecting a particular interest.

Concerning rev 22, what i will say must be in harmony with the rest of the bible but no conclusion yet.
But i from what am seeing, alpha and omega is exclusive for God Almighty.

Because our lord Jesus Christ was presenting a message from Him. Just like the minister sent by GEJ.

Ihedinobi: ^^^ Good one, bro

Good one? Ok o lets see.

"The most important
commandment is this: 'Listen, O
Israel! The LORD our God is
three persons and three Lords
but ONE GOD ."- Mark 12:28-29

lol...which kind of bible is this one from?

Image123: ^
thanks but no thanks, i have no interest in learning insignificant 'truths'. I'm free and saved already. fight whatever appears to be biting you instead.

You sound like you are now disarmed by some of the explanations you are now seeing. Don't worry, it is a win win for all of us. Truth is truth. There is no Small, big, half or false truth.
You are not the only one that believes he is free and saved. People from other religion also believe that. But as a Christian, let your salvation be based on the truth in the word of God.

Enigma: ^^^ That they cannot deal with the passages from Revelation 22 especially shows that it is not very productive engaging them ---- the only use of the exercise has been to provide the counter points for the benefit of others.

Hmm...it seems its only rev 22 that is remaining.
Enigmatic, its better we start from the beginning ie rev 1:1-2 to understand the rest of revelations better.
1 The revelation from Jesus Christ,
which God gave him to show his
servants what must soon take
place. He made it known by
sending his angel to his servant
John, 2 who testifies to everything
he saw—that is, the word of God
and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

God gave Christ every thing we read about in the revelation and Chris brought the message from God to us. And Christ made it known to us by means of His angels.
Its like when GEJ sends a minister to represent him and read an address. The minister will read it this way "I, the president, commander in chief of the armed forces. I here by give all of you free electricity..." You know? Some thing like that. I will come to verse 22 letter. Please any one that has some thing to add should please do so. Except Ifedinobi.

Ihedinobi: Funny guy, lol. You think I'm refusing to continue arguing with you because I've run out of arguments? Typical of you "humble" professors. Hehehehe

I choose to stop because I know when a venture is fruitless. If I thought it were worth it and godly, I'd settle in to make nonsense of your patently contradictory statements.

Put simply, you guys aren't worth the effort. If you were more honest in your approach to Truth-seeking, I would gladly walk with you, but you're not, so...

So long, Mr Humble Truth-possessor.

Hahaha! My brother their nothing to counter in my explanations above(of Hebrew 1:1-12). The truth cannot be hidden. When things were fruitless was you guys were giving quotes and counter quotes. Now it learning time. As you can see it is becoming fruitful.

Ihedinobi: Oh really. Not a scholar but you're in a hurry to teach everybody this "truth" you have without the expense of scholarship. Typical.

lol...... Sure. Whatever you say, man.

it is not by scholar-ship if not every Christian scholar would have believed in one thing. But by who is humble to know and receive the 'truth'.

I know you are now getting the gist.

Ihedinobi: Ok, sir Bible scholar. Who then was speaking to Whom in Hebrews 1:8-12?

Am just a person that chose to believe the truth not a scholar.

Hebrews 1:1-12
1 God, who at various times and
in various ways spoke in time
past to the fathers BY THE PROPHETS,
2 has in these last days spoken to
us BY HIS SON, whom He has
appointed heir of all things,
through whom also He made
the worlds;....
8 But to the Son He says: "Your
throne, O God, is forever and
ever; A scepter of righteousness
is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness
and hated lawlessness;
THEREFORE GOD, YOU GOD, has
anointed You With the oil of
gladness more than Your
COMPANIONS."
10 And: "You, LORD, in the
beginning laid the foundation
of the earth, And the heavens
are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You
remain; And they will all grow
old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them
up, And they will be changed.
But You are the same, And Your
years will not fail."

Let me explain it to you.
From verse 1 and 2, do you see the similarity of what the prophets and the Son does for the Father. It is very clear.
Verse 8. God is the one speaking to Christ. The word GOD does not make Him greater than or equal to the Father.
Verse 9 shows that God is His God. And God anointed Him more than His COMPANIONS. Who are they?
By anointing Him, God gave Him everything and made Him Lord over us and every other thing.

If you read this and the book of Hebrew over over again, you will see why trinity is not a Christian thing.
If you continue arguing blindly, you will bring down your integrity. And stop using too much English that makes no point.
God bless.

Ihedinobi: I'll tell you the grandest statement about the Trinity in the Bible: HEAR O ISRAEL, THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD. Now that statement declares that there is only truly one God (or "one true God", if you prefer, thus rendering all other gods false). If this is so, you realize that making Jesus a God apart from Yahweh is making Him a false God. Either He is God or He is not. If He is God, the Trinity is justified. If He is not, the Trinity is a lie. It cannot be midway.

You do get my point, right?

that does not support trinity in any way. Let me help you understand it.
The Father has no God but our lord Jesus has a God(the Father), me and you, as well as our brothers and sisters have a God. Therefore our God is one. Simple!
This will also help you.
John17:3
3 Now this is eternal life: that they
know you, the only true God, and
Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Ok Jesus is God(i hope you don't mean the Father if it is you have failed),
1. does it make Him greater than or equal to the Father?
2. How does it support the trinity.

Don't shy away from the question

Ihedinobi, read the bible Quotes
above from frosbel in page 1 -John
5:19-22. I know you wouldn't
want to. But it will give you a
clue as to what the Son does and
what He says. So that when you
read something like 'I and my
Father are one' or 'I am the alpha
and the omega' you will not get
confused.
Ok. Jesus is God. How does it
make Him greater or equal with
the Father?(don't use the wrong
assumption made by the
phareseas who Christ said don't
know the scripture to prove it)
How does it support trinity?

This is the question i asked before. Leave Enigma and others alone with your confusion and learn. We are already getting some where.

Hahaha. Keep it up brother. Its a good thing.

frosbel: God bless brother, it takes humility to reject the trinity.

God bless you too dear.

I hope your write up will not cause confusion. It is always better in small write up and straight to the point.

Cheers.

It always good to start from the beginning and not from the middle.

The reward Christ is coming with is given to Him by the Father just as the promised Holy spirit He poured on all flesh was given to Him by the Father.
Acts2:33
33 Exalted to the right hand of
God, he has received from the
Father the promised Holy Spirit
and has poured out what you
now see and hear.

Col1:18
Christ is first in all things that why is the alpha and omega. First born of all creation...etc.

Thank God we are now learning. I also like what this part of mark 12 says.

Mark 12:32-34
New International Version (NIV)
32 “Well said, teacher,” the man
replied. “YOU ARE RIGHT IN SAYING THAT GOD IS ONE AND THERE IS NO OTHER BUT HIM. 33 To love him with
all your heart, with all your
understanding and with all your
strength, and to love your neighbor
as yourself is more important than
all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
34 When Jesus saw that he had
answered wisely, he said to him,
“YOU ARE NOT FAR FROM THE KINGDOM OF GOD.” And from then on no one
dared ask him any more questions.

Did you read the bible Quotes above from frosbel? -John 5:19-22. I know you wouldn't want to. But it will give you a clue as to what the Son does and what He says. So that when you read something like 'I and my Father are one' or 'I am the alpha and the omega' you will not get confused.

Ok. Jesus is God. How does it make Him greater or equal with the Father?(don't use the wrong assumption made by the phareseas who Christ said don't know the scripture to prove it) How does it support trinity?

Let us learn.

Odunnu: Thread made fp?
*unfollows*

Why unfollow? Because it made fp. Or do you have any thing to hide. I like girls who are proud of their present and future.

I am tapping from every good comment here and leaving the bad ones for those that have confessed it for themselves.

frosbel: 19 So Jesus explained, “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself. He does only what he sees the Father doing. Whatever the Father does, the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him everything he is doing. In fact, the Father will show him how to do even greater works than healing this man. Then you will truly be astonished. 21 For just as the Father gives life to those he raises from the dead, so the Son gives life to anyone he wants. 22 In addition, the Father judges no one. Instead, he has given the Son absolute authority to judge - John 5:19-22

I don't know if the problem of those that believe in trinity is just to make people believe that Jesus is God. But does it mean He is equal with His God? NO. For He said the Father is greater than i am. He didn't lie. Image read the above bible passages + 1COR15:27,28 and meditate upon them. What i understand is that those that believe in trinity like to ignore bible portions that don't support trinity because they feel it make them fall from the truth they think they know. Just make up you mind and read them. I know its a psychological problem but you can conquer it.

Bishops are not supposed to be outraged over any thing. They should imitate the apostles. This is what reverence for the cross and the image(which am sure is not our Lord Jesus Christ) on it can cause. Those that want to mock Him should go to heaven, see His true nature and start printing. If they can't do that, i wouldn't bother(same thing for every Christian). If He did not resurrect and is glorified, the miracles, the cross will all be mere stories.

Those that worship God must do that in spirit and truth, and not by using any thing you feel will make you have strong faith or feelings for God by staring or looking at it. Remember His suffering in truth not with an image that is not even His. Those bishops should learn to follow Christ not an image on the cross. They should try to learn what the apostles would do in the face of mockery. That is when they will have power over those that want cheap popularity.

Amen!

I hope that he will learn. But the above scripture is for every body.

plappy, Just allow him. He has the spirit of arguing blindly and you can not cure him.

Let me point out another mistake those that believe in trinity are making.

God gave us dominion over everything on earth. To give them names and call them what we want. But to read the bible and assign name TRINITY to Divine being is very very wrong. This is done by the wisdom of men. No matter what you believe, believe it according to the bible. Don't go and give The Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit a collective name which you don't know if it pleases them and it can not be found in the bible. It is not in our power to do that. Trinity is a name fashioned by humans base on what they think they understand from the bible. It is not divine. Let us stick with the names in the bible which are inspired by the Holy spirit. They are the ones that pleases Him, that is why He gave them to us.

It now obvious that we now understand our selves and what we believe in- the bible, which can not contradict it self. This is it.

1. Those that believe in One true God, have lots of strong bible potions that shows that there is only one God-the Father. Who is the God of our lord Jesus Christ. That when God(the Father) subjected all things to Christ, it does not include Him self but Christ will subject Him self to Him(the Father), 1Cor15:28. Plus many other references. The verses in the bible presented by these people are so true that they can not be contested or disproved.

2. Those that support trinity also have strong bible potions that shows that our Lord Jesus is the word of God. That the Father and Jesus are One in terms of purpose(ie what God wants also delights Him) and not in terms of being a single person. And that the holy spirit also carry out the work/word of God. Each doing things that are in line with the will of God(ie acting on His behalf or as He has directed). Making them all to have one PURPOSE, hence the 3 in 1. Plus many other references. The verses in the bible also presented by these people are so true that they can not be contested or disproved.

Our bible don't contradict it self.

It now obvious that we now understand our selves and what we believe in- the bible, which can not contradict it self. This is it.

1. Those that believe in One true God, have lots of strong bible potions that shows that there is only one God-the Father. Who is the God of our lord Jesus Christ. That when God(the Father) subjected all things to Christ, it does not include Him self but Christ will subject Him self to Him(the Father), 1Cor15:28. Plus many other references. The verses in the bible presented by these people are so true that they can not be contested or disproved.

2. Those that support trinity also have strong bible potions that shows that our Lord Jesus is the word of God. That the Father and Jesus are One in terms of purpose(ie what God wants also delights Him) and not in terms of being a single person. And that the holy spirit also carry out the work/word of God. Each doing things that are in line with the will of God(ie acting on His behalf or as He has directed). Making them all to have one PURPOSE, hence the 3 in 1. Plus many other references. The verses in the bible also presented by these people are so true that they can not be contested or disproved.

Our bible can't contradict itself.

Heavenly Father, am grateful for everything You have done for me. Thank You.

Na wa o. Read 1TIM2:5. Start now to read ur bible. Most people like you that share the same belief are beginning to see the truth. Learn the truth from the bible bro not from any human.

i.chuka:
Am not for or against trinity.my point is that our Lord Jesus is God Himself.
The Bible from genesis to revelation has only one Person in view and it(the Bible) Delivers Christ to us and not just merely messages.

If our Lord Jesus is God Himself,
Who was He praying to?
Why is He a mediator between man and God?
Who did He call His Father and God?
Who raised Him from death?
What did John 3 verse 16 say?
He is sitting down at the right hand of the Father in heaven, i hope u know?

Its obvious you don't read the bible well. Google the questions above and locate the chapters where they are in the bible and read them well. I want you to do it your self so you will know they are in the bible.

Chuka, you failed in your explanations of Matt22:29. Read it again and understand it. You will see where you made a little mistake. I see you have the zeal but you have to drop every thought you have for or against trinity and start learning with a free spirit. Compare the scriptures from those supporting trinity and the ones from those that are not in support. You will learn great things from your study.

@ i.chuks
read 1Tim2:5 in my post above or better with your own bible and stop being confused.

@Okey
I don't even know where to start believing you. Your own bible can not be printed. Asked your teachers what they believe in and then come back and read what is here.

Most of us were like that before, following what they teach us whether true or false and defending it. If you cultivate the spirit of wanting to know you will know.

Why would any body call them MOLUE. The president has not endorsed it yet.

I don't know what comes to the mind when people who believe in trinity read chapters like this:

John 20:17. Jesus said to her 'do not cling to me for i have not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.'
they said He has not entered heaven that time. Ok how about this one in ephesians?

Eph 1:17. That THE GOD OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, The Father of glory, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him.
We all know that the Head of man is Christ and the Head of Christ is God(1Cor11:3). And people are still holding fast to trinity.

1Tim2:5. For there is only one God and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.

Why not ask your self, does the bible contradict its self? Why would the verses above tell me some thing different from the trinity i believe in? Don't cloud your judgment with what you are told to believe.