₦airaland Forum

You still refuse to answer {Revelation 1:7-8} dolphinheart this proves you are a lair and the word of God is not found in you.
And you say you don't believe in the word, and yet you write {John 1:14} And the word was made flesh, and He lived among us.
Lets look at {John 1:1} In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
This same Word you speak about' lived among us.
But you still have refused to answer the scriptures I have given you 7-8

dolphinheart:
imagine , I accused you of lying and you can't defend yourself , you can't show prove where I asked you to tell who is talking in all the verses. These shows that my accusations are true!

you try to accuse me of lying based on what I have not done, who does that!
I have not ignored your request, I told you pages ago What will make me tell you what rev 1: 7,8 is saying, and I kept on repeating that.

When you first talked about rev1: 7,8 , you made some false statement regarding those verses, there is the need for me to make you use your own words to establish that your statement are false first. hence I asked you to qoute and explain(using your own words) what you understand by what is recorded in rev 1: 1,4-6 and heb 1:9, also that you tell us who is talking in rev 3:2,12.
you have vehemently refused to quote and explain these verses up till now, simply because you know that quoting and explaining them will expose you as a propagator of false teachings.

there are lots of scriptures that have accumulated, lots of questions pending, all of which you ignored,refusing to even quote and explain them, yet you feel you can accuse me of not responding to the scriptures you quoted.


try me na, fulfill my request on these issue and see if I wunt answer you!


you might be confused about which verse you are quoting, but I will help you out, you quoted heb 1:1 and 2

brocab, I'll not only quote those verses, I'll attach surportin scriptures for you to understand better.
King James Version
Heb 1:1 and 2
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Paul said that God had in times past spoken to mankind through the prophets, this can also be seen in jer 7:25
King James Version
Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them:

Verse 28 tells us who the God that has been sending prophets to the isrealites is
Jer 7:28And you will say to them, ‘This is the nation that did not obey the voice of Jehovah their God and refused to accept discipline. Faithfulness has perished and is not even mentioned among them.’
* could not quote the kjv cus it has removed God's name from that verse

so in heb 1: 1, Paul was talking about jehovah god.
Paul now says in verse two that jehovah now spoke to us by his Son, and this son he had appointed as heir to all things.
theseveral two verses are clear indications that jehovah/God and the Son/jesus are not the same person. The person who appointed and the person being appointed are not the same person. therefore , God and Jesus are not the same person!

Mt 17:5While he was still speaking, look! a bright cloud overshadowed them, and look! a voice out of the cloud said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.”

King James Version
1Co 8:6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


answer: jesus!

Ps 2:2,6,7
The kings of the earth take their stand And high officials gather together as one Against Jehovah and against his anointed one.
6. Saying: “I myself have installed my king On Zion, my holy mountain
7. Let me proclaim the decree of Jehovah; He said to me: “You are my son; Today I have become your father.

King James Version
Ro 1:4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

King James Version
2Pe 1:16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


You can see again that Jesus is not jehovah, Jesus is not the God Paul was talking about, Jesus is the first born of God !

King James Version
Joh 1:14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Ro 8:29because those whom he gave his first recognition he also foreordained to be patterned after the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

King James Version
Col 1:15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:



did you see the capitalised words? did you explain it? if not pls do.
does jesus have a God?

[b]Mt 28:18Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.

Re 3:21To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Isa 61:1The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me, Because Jehovah anointed me to declare good news to the meek. He sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And the wide opening of the eyes to the prisoners,

Lu 3:21, 22Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus too was baptized. As he was praying, the heaven was opened up,22and the holy spirit in bodily form like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.”

Lu 4:18“Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free,

Ps 45:6, 7God is your throne forever and ever; The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness.7You loved righteousness, and you hated wickedness. That is why God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.[/b]

Jesus is the son of God , the firstborn. He was sent by God to save mankind , he was anointed above his companions. Jesus has a God that anointed him, that God is his father who he said sent him, who he said is the only true god, who he said is our God

the question to you brocab, who are jesus companions?

You should look at you own doctrine, none of it has any meaning to it, your religion is dead. {Revelation 3:1} {Dead man walking}
You haven't the slightest idea about the bible, you don't recognize the word of God, your teachings are from comic books, "Watchtower magazines, pictured cartoons.
Matter of fact the bible frightens you, because you would have to read it without having any pictures to explain to you what your watchtower magazines is telling you..
We have all answered your request-and we are still waiting for you to answer our request, but of course you have chosen to ignore them too.

dolphinheart:
readers should note that the above is another way to say, "I can't quote and explain those scriptures cus they scare me and will prove my doctrines wrong!

I did not ask you to quote the whole bible.
I've already proved my allegation of you being prone to making false allegations without adding proof, you are still repeating that bad trait .

And if I am the chief of all lairs, then why would anybody take me seriously, listen I am not interested in your request, just do the right thing and answer my question, who do you believe who is, who was, and who is to come? Because you have chosen to ignored 7-8 this proves to us viewers, you are a lair, and the word of God is not in you.
You haven't the slightest Idea how to Answer {Revelation 1:4} Nor can you Answer 1:7-8 because these verses points it out clearly what the JW's believe-Jehovah God is Jesus in person.
{Hebrews 1:5-9} In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets, V 2 But in these last day's He had spoken to us by His Son.
Are you learning the word of God yet? And again you would like me to answer them for you, {God's speaking} but the verses from 5-8 should be more of an interest to you. Archangels nor Angels were never made as men, only spirits.
The Amplified bible, {Hebrews 1:1-9 } says it like this.
V 5-For to which of the angels did the Father ever say, "You are My Son, Today I have begotten {Fathered} You, [Established You as a Son, with kindly dignity]?
And again [did He ever say to the angels] "I shall be a Father to Him, and He shall be a Son to Me"?
V 6 And when He again brings the First born, [Highest-ranking Son] into the world, He says, "And all the Angels of God are to worship Him".
V 7 And concerning the Angels He says, "Who makes the Angels winds, "And His Ministering servants flames of fire. [To do His bidding]."
V 8 But about the Son [the Father says to Him]
"Your throne O God, is forever and ever, And the Scepter of [obsolete] Righteousness is the Scepter of His Kingdom.
V 9 You have Loved righteousness [integrity, Virtue, uprightness, in purpose] And have hated lawlessness [injustice sin] Therefore your God Has anointed You. With the oil of gladness above your companion.
The Amplified bible has its ways to fully explain the words, do you agree?

dolphinheart:
YOU ARE NOT ONLY A LIAR , YOU ARE CHIEF OF LIARS.
where did I tell you to tell us who is talking each of the verses!?

Here is my request again brocab:
pls quote and then explain the following scriptures
rev 1: 1,4-6
heb 1:9

pls tell us who is talking in rev 3: 2,12

you have not done this, you think splitting the verses into different comments will help you, it will not!

I am waiting for you, to give me a pad on the back-it has taken you all this time to understand the scriptures, and finely you agree?
Stop giving me the small talk, everyone in their right mind could see I had added Jesus name Only because you had asked me to tell you' who is Speaking in each of the verses. so I did' and or I heard from you, was winch, because I added Jesus name in comer's.
{Revelation 3:2-12} If this isn't Jesus talking' then who is?
Plus I need to here it from you-Who do you say' who is and who was and who is to come? Do you also believe the Alpha and the Omega is another person too?

dolphinheart:
So now you admit that you added "jesus" to the verse earlier, good mission accomplished!,

now is the person who was, who is and who is to come jesus Christ!? no ooooo ooooo!

you know this , that's why you refused to quote the next two verses, even after you had been asked several times, you decided to lie that you have quoted and explained verse 6

rev 1:4-6
4 John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
Grace and peace to you FROM him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and FROM the seven spirits before his throne,
5 and FROM Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve HIS GOD AND FATHER —to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

brocab, explain those greetings of John to us pls, tell us who those greetings are FROM!, do not shorten these and try to identify only one of them!

If you are able to, pls take your time and explain verse 6!

also tell us who is talking in rev 3:2,12

O Shame on you dolhpinheart, are you ramping and raging because I had added Jesus's name only because I don't really believe you know who is and who was, and who is coming.
So I was just pointing it out to you who the verse is referring too, {Revelation 1:4} Grace and peace from Him, who is who was, and who is to come, this scripture is talking about {Jesus}
But as usual you have turned yourself up side down, dolhpinheart are you really this dumb, that not even you can see your argument really isn't going places. You are using everything you can find to go up against me, and of course the word. But listen you can't beat the word of God, the word had already won the victory.
{Revelation 1:6} God had sent His angel to pass on His message to John. V 8 and is it God claiming He is "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end says the Lord God?
{Exodus 3:14} Is God the I Am and {John 8:56-59} Jesus is I Am at the same time.
Does this mean, Jesus was and is God, the second person of the God head equal to the Father in every way?
Hebrews 1:7 proves to us that He made his angels Spirits, while the JW's believe otherwise, Michael became a man.

dolphinheart:
YOU ARE A LIAR BROCAB. PROVE ME WRONG BY SHOWING US WHERE YOU QUOTED AND EXPLAINED REV 1:6.

Pls quote and explain rev 1:1, 4-6.
pls tell us who is talking in rev 3:2,12
pls explain heb 1:9

You quoted 2 verses out of how many? you are not even ashamed that you left it at just quoting, you could not explain.

I've promised to explain rev 1:7,8 to you once you can do this, cus understanding those scriptures is integral to the explanation.

I've I've shown you prove of my allegations against you, you could not prove it wrong that's why you refused to quote my post.
you added the word "jesus" in the middle of a verse, but when asked about the verse, you removed the word when quoting the verse again. If you are sure of your addition , you would have left it their when quoting that verse again.

why did you remove the word "jesus" you added earlier, cus the next two verses shows you are wrong to have added it. This fact you can't disprove!

I had quoted two scriptures, and you again are accusing me and making false accusations against me, and your demands are jumping too and fro, all I had asked was for you to answer these two scriptures at the beginning, dolhpinheart calm down, your blood is boiling over the top.
I have answered {Revelation 1:6} many times over, and of course once again you have denied explaining the two verses of {Revelation 1:7-8} I can understand these two have hit you like a bullet, and of course you are trying to take our viewers away from these two scriptures that's written.
Listen if you don't know, just say so? I not expecting rocket science to answer this question for you.
As I had said Jesus had a Father, and the Father had a Son, but why did the JW's write Jehovah God is the Alpha and the Omega the beginning and the end, the first and the last, who is, who was, and who is to come, I was dead, and look I am alive forevermore, instead of Jesus? Does this mean the JW's believe that Jesus could be God in person?
Can someone' other then dolhpinheart answer this question? Is there a JW out there, who knows any of the scriptures that's written in your bible? And why was it written in your bible if you believe otherwise.

Dolpinheart you can't find {Revelation 1:4} written in your bible?
John" to the seven Churches which are in Asia. Grace to you and peace from Him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne.
And you expect me to listen to you, and you can't even come up with scriptures such as this? And you think you know it all?
Are you sure your father isn't Satan, you always find ways to falsely accuse me, and giving out false accusations against me, the bible told me that's Satan's job. I suppose like father' like son?
Are you casting the first stone because you can't understand the scriptures, Or are you playing dumb you can't understand scriptures the way I understand them.
And I don't keep on adding false views to any scripture, the problem we have here, is that you can't see the scriptures like I see them, only because you don't understand them, and everything I have written, you ramp and rage, casting the first stone, over words that you can't comprehend. But don't worry' someday the Lord will open up your harden heart and reveal the truth to you.

Yeh bro" its always in a Christians heart for any truth to be revealed, and of course when we see the end of days heading our way at a faster rate, we as Christians are spreading the word of God to the four corners on this planet. And of course we will come up against the enemy, and usually we find most of them are involved in Churches, claiming to know Christ-but denying His power.
And of course we found a tiny Hick up, JW's claiming to be Christians, refusing Christ, but rather believe in angels, God had made Michael the archangel to become Jesus, and on return' Jesus then becomes Michael the archangel once again, to cast out Satan, the devil, the serpent, the dragon, casting him out of heaven.
No-matter how hard it seems bro, just keep on pushing the word out there, brother, if its not the JW's listening, "Never worry, because someone out there is, and its someone out there who's getting saved everyday. Praise the Lord for ever more.

solite3:
And the worse of it all is that they have no clue.Its all part of the grand plan to establish Satan's kingdom on earth. the rapture is near. Its time for Christians to engage in radical soul winning,the harvest is truly ripe

Yes bro, I don't deny how you feel, and what I am about to write will surely pissed them off 100 fold>and of course you are right they are trained to lie, Liars many of them are, only because none of them really know about the scriptures, and none of them have been taught about the scriptures neither, they are filled with watchtower magazines, comic books, that's filling their hearts with action pack lies, full of hatred as we know it, these people have been deceived by a unknowing God. {Satan} who has come here to kill steal and destroy.
Deceiving one another, none of them know Christ, they believe in the archangel Michael to lead them to their paradise.
Satan can come in as a angel of light, And God said do not worship any other God, {Luke 4:8} Jesus said it is written worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.
{Colossins 2:8} He also says, let no-man worship angels.

But does anyone believe the JW's will understand any of the above scriptures? Of course not, without proper teachings, usually they would try and turn these verses against the word of God, and their greatest tools are verbal abuse over words they really don't understand.
When I write on this page bro, we are actually teaching the unsaved the word of God, Jesus said go out unto all the earth and preach the gospel, and what better place to be, we are in amongst the wolves in sheep clothing-who was told they are Christian.
Really bro these suckers haven't a clue which God they worship, Satan is calling for the New World Order, and this had already began, And with that little help with door knocking the JW's, provide, their God' the angel of light will sit as their God with the plans the world had already designed ready for the picking, and who will worship the beast?
And bro' what better way is to sit at home, office, etc,, to witness to a "unsaved JW, so the rest may hear the word of God.

johnw74:
false jw's all over the place are paranoid
paranoia is from satan
all fear is from satan
satan is their father
you would have noticed that false jw also lie all over the place
satan is the father of lies

Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

false j witnesses lie often, with other witnesses supporting them in their lies

Pro 19:9 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish

Here I go again, its hard when one has to explain the verses when another doesn't understand them. Ok lets give Revelation some style by using other scriptures to back it up {Revelation 1:6} that will help explain this hole chapter.
Firstly lets clear up your so called theory about Solite3 and brocab "Are they the same person? Lets read what God says who we are.
{1 Corinthians 6:17} But the person who is united with the Lord is one Spirit with Him.
{John 17:21} That all of them may be one, Father just as you are one in Me, and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe, that you have sent Me.
Does these two verses clear it up for you? Solite3 and brocab are one in Christ. And Christ is one in us. So does this mean we are also Christ' your God as well? Or does it mean we are three?
Shall we continual? {Revelation 1} The revelation of Jesus Christ, which "God" gave Him to show to His bond servants-the things which must shortly take place.
And He sent and communicated it through His Angel {Messenger} to His bond servant John. {2} who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all he saw.
Lets quickly look over to> {Revelation 1:9} "I John", your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and the kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the Island called Patmos, because of the "word of God" and the "testimony of Jesus".
{3} Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this Prophesy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.
Lets look at> {Revelation 22:7} {Jesus said} And behold I am coming Quickly Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophesy of this Book.
{4} John" to be the seven assemblies {Churches} that are in Asia; Grace to you and Peace, from Him {Jesus} who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne;
Now lets read> {Revelation 1:9-13} "I John" your brother and fellow partaker in tribulation and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the Island called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ, {10} "{John said} I was in the spirit" on the Lords day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet. {11} saying "I am the Alpha and the Omega the first and the last," and what you see write in a book and send it to the seven Churches. {12} Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden Lampstands, {13} and in the midst of the Lampstands One like the Son of man. {Jesus} Lets continual reading down from verses {17-19} And when I saw Him I feel at His feet as a dead man, and He laid His right hand upon me and said do not be afraid, I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive for ever more. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of death.
And Jesus said to John write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.
We have got to get this right-Now lets go to> {Revelation 22:7, 12-13, 20.} {Jesus said} Behold I am coming Quickly. Bless is He who keeps the words of this prophesy of the book. {12} And behold I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone according to his work. {13} I am the Alpha and the Omega. {20} He who testifies to these things says, 'Surely "I am" coming Quickly." Amen. {John said} Even so come Lord Jesus.
Back too> {Revelation 1:5} And from Jesus Christ, " the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us, and released us from our sins" by His blood.
Lets continual too> {Psalm 89:27} I will make Him my first-born, the highest of the kings of the earth. {6} And He has made us to be a Kingdom priest, to His God and Father. {7-8} {John} Behold Jesus is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. Even so Amen. {Jesus} "I am" the Alpha and the Omega says the Lord God {Again the scriptures tells us Jesus is the Lord God} "WHO IS, AND WHO WAS AND WHO IS TO COME, THE ALMIGHTY. And we read down further, John said in verse {17-19} He saw Jesus after falling at Hid feet as dead, John said Jesus laid His right hand upon him saying do not be afraid I am the first and the last,{18} the living One: I was dead, and behold, I am alive for ever more, and I have the keys of death and hades. {19} Jesus said to John, write therefore the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things shall take place, after these things.
I have written these verses separately, and you couldn't understand them than, and you still won't understand these verses now, only because you don't read anything I have written. I had asked about {Revelation 1:7:8} in your bible the New World Translation bible, and you run from these two verses, only because you believe your bible scholars had made a mistake, you coward away from these two verses, trying to convince others they didn't exist. And the JW's admitted in writing Jehovah God is Jesus Christ.

Have a look in {Revelation 1:8} Jesus is also called the Almighty God. And if you read 7-8 in the New World Translation bible the JW's even call Jesus Jehovah God.

solite3:
where did it say Jesus is a mighty God

It also says in {Revelation 1:8} Jesus is the Almighty God. You should read your own bible it tells it better, Jesus is even called the Jehovah God.

goodnews201668:
That means you don't even read other people's post!
I cited Isaiah 9:6

To be honest, I actually don't know what sort of teachings you JW's believe in, only because none of are honest enough to share about it.
And of course I have tried asking some JW's, about your religion, and like many, you too' have taken my questions and answers the wrong way.
None what so ever have taken the bible seriously, like I do, you either try to re-arrange words taken from the bible, cursing me with words of hatred, casting the first stone against myself and the word, I had one of you JW's call the bible a lie, a miss print.
And it's your bible that holds the truth about God.
You must get it into your heads' we born again Christians are not against you, we are simply pointing out the word of God, not with a bible that's half written like the New World Translation, but from a bible I believe shows more of the truth about God, then any other bible that's written, the 1611 version.
Your bible isn't finished yet, and I do hope someday you all will understand the word of God, just as the Lord is teaching it to us from the beginning.
{John 8:44} You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murder from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth. Because their is no truth in Him.
{Revelation 2:12-13}Tells that Satan dwells in a Church. "And to the angel of the Church of Pegamos where Satan dwells,
{2 Corinthians 11:14} For Satan Himself is transformed into an angel of light.
{Job 1:6-12} One day the angels came in to present themselves to the lord and Satan came with them, and the Lord said to Satan where have you come from. "Satan answered the Lord" From roaming throughout the earth, going back and fourth into it.
{Revelation 12:10} The accuser had been caste down to earth. 10 makes it clear Satan has been accusing our brothers and sisters day and night before God.
I could write on about Satan-but I don't want to push you over with words you may not even recognize because your bible may not have even mention the above?

goodnews201668:
You are on every JW thread yet you don't know what they believe.
Anyways go back to that post, that Isaiah 14:12 has been explained.
Revelation chapter 12 is talking about the war in heaven.
While Isaiah chapter 14 is talking about Satan's falling.
But take not Satan was still in the heavens even after Adam and eve were created and sin against God.
He has not been casted out of heaven even after deceiving Adam and eve!
can I show you evidence?

Firstly their is not to many errors in my post, if you have read it more clearly its all written from the bible, I must remember you JW's don't have a full bible, that holds the secrets of God and His kingdom. Which unfortunately it can be very frustrating at times.
We have Gabrielle and Michael, I only mentioned Raphael name because the Catholic' version is quiet close to the Jw's versions of the bible.
And plus your watchtower Magazines do hold stories that none of the bibles could prove.

And then we have Lucifer written in {Isaiah 14:12} How you have falling from Heaven O"Lucifer son of the morning! How are you cut down to the ground, who did weaken the nations. {Revelation 12:7-9} Says Lucifer and His angels fought against God and of course Michael and His angels fought against Lucifer too.
I really didn't believe you would go for the falling angel story, Jw's don't even believe in the devil nor about Hell, only a grave.
And the war didn't break out after Jesus had returned to Heaven, if this was the case then your story believing Michael becoming Jesus on earth and then returning back as an Archangel into Heaven who sits on God's right hand side to fight the dragon, does not line up what you JW's believe in.
Who then was in the garden of Eden?

prinzfavian:
Too many errors in ur post, first of all lucifer is not an angel neither is it the devil. Also no angel is referred to as "Raphael" in the bible same goes for uriel. What we have in the bible which is close to it is RAPHA [meaning “heal”]. Who refers to a son of Benjamin, called his fifth at 1 Chronicles 8:1, 2. His name is absent from the list of those who went into Egypt (Ge 46:21) and from the listing of Benjamin’s tribal families. (Nu 26:38-40) This may indicate that, regardless of where Rapha was born, he died soon with no descendants, or else they were absorbed into a different family.

For Lucifer It is, however, merely the translation of the Hebrew word heh·lelʹ, “shining one.” Heh·lelʹ is not a name or a title but, rather, a term describing the boastful position taken by Babylon’s dynasty of kings of the line of Nebuchadnezzar.) (Isa 14:4-21) Since Babylon was a tool of Satan, its “king” reflected Satan’s own ambitious desire. Again, Jehovah came to the salvation of his people by restoring them to their land, until the real Seed of promise should come.—Ezr 1:1-6.

My bro the war u referred to at rev 12 didnt occur before Adam and Eve were made, it was after Jesus christ returned to heaven after the sucessful completion of his mission here on earth. Thats a topic for another day cos m sure u wud counter it.

Before I go further I want to ask u this question only after ur answer will i know what to say - do u agree that as the bible puts it; Michael is the Leader of all the millions of angels in heaven?

How does anyone take you seriously, it must be hard for you to even consider you have a brain, but of course God did make you too, but I suppose you always need to remember God's a forgiven God, and because you aren't as smart as you think, we have to love you too.
Since you already believe Michael played Jesus, then you should know which of the angels took on God's role

goodnews201668:
God gave Jesus authority to create himself as you said, fine. At least someone gave authority for the other to create himself? After that they became equal? Is that it?

Interesting, but the truth about this is the bible only mentions four angels by name Gabrielle whose name means, {God is Mighty} and then we have Michael meaning {like God} and Raphael meaning {God Heals} and of course Lucifer who's name is {Light Bearer}
All angels have a part to play, but its these four angels mentioned by name, and they all carry the name of God.
{Revelation 12} And there was war in heaven Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back, and because of the dragons weakness they lost their place in heaven, the great dragon was hurled down to the earth with his angels.
And then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying" Now have come salvation, and the power of the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. does this mean God and Christ had given His authority to Michael and his angels, to overcome the dragon? Like Jesus gave His disciples the same authority to overcome the dragon the enemy of this world, who was cast to earth before Adam was made?
The accuser of our brothers who accuses then day and night have been hurled down, They overcome Him by the blood of the Lamb, {And who is the blood of the Lamb Jesus} and by the word of their testimony. Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But who to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you. Satan filled with fury because he knows he has a short time.
This of course took place before Adam was made. We find this in {Genesis 2:9} where God warns us about the two trees in the garden of Eden, the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And of course the serpent was in the garden.
Now later in {Luke 10:17} Jesus mention He saw Lucifer fall like lighting from Heaven.
And Jesus gave His disciples authority to over come the enemy and the dragon who was cast down from heaven. is this the same authority that was given to Michael and his angels to win the battle? Yes, because Jesus said in His name you would cast out devil's {Mark 16:17}
The archangel theory coming to earth as Jesus is so far fetched. I don't believe Michael became the Christ, I believe Jesus gave Michael and His angels strength to win the battle. The same strength he had given to His disciples when fighting against the demons and the principalities of this world. This same strength He has given to us, when we come against the demonic beings that was cast from heaven to this world.
Angels have a job to do, and Gabrielle was the Angel who gave the good news to the Virgin Mary, and it was angels who told the good news to the shepherds, and the archangel Michael is the guardian angel of Israel, Raphael had His part to do, as well as Lucifer. "I am Jesus" was before the world began.

prinzfavian:
The spirit creature called Michael is not mentioned often in the Bible. However, when he is referred to, he is in action. In the book of Daniel, Michael is battling with wicked angels, in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan, and in revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons. By defending Jehovah's rulership and fighting God's enemies, Michael lives up to the meaning of his name - "who is like God?" But who is Michael?
At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as simon. (gen 49:1,2 ; Mathew 10:2) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth. Let us see scriptural reasons for drawing that conclusion.
Archangel. God's word refers to Michael "the archangel". (jude 9) this term means "chief angel". Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggest that there is only one such angel. Infact, the term "archangel" occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, 1Thessalonians 4:16 states: "The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice." Thus the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggest that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.

Army Leader. The Bible states that "Michael and HIS angels battled with the dragon. . . . and its angels." (rev 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the leader of an army of faithful angels. (rev 19:14-16) and the apostle Paul specifically mentions "the Lord Jesus" and "his powerful angels" (2thess 1:7;matt 16:27; 24:31; 1peter 3:22) so the Bible speaks of both Michael and his angels and Jesus and his angels (matt 13:41) since God's word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven-one headed by michael and one headed by Jesus-it is reasonable to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his new heavenly role.
Let me know if u still need more explanations. Thanks.

Listening to myself would be a lot better listening to you.

goodnews201668:
Just listen to yourself!

God created Himself didn't He? Or are you also into the big bang theory? I am only trying to draw you JW's in on this subject, and I guess it worked?
No-where in the bible did it say God had given Michael His authority to become Jesus. Was it written in the Watchtower magazines?
So I was hoping someone belonging to your organization could shed a little light on this subject, because you JW's think otherwise, about God's creation, and you can't seem to understand what the bible is really about.
So if one of you could explain to us why you believe an archangel was sent to earth in spirit and was given a new identity to be born as a man "Jesus" Then at least you could give us more information on this subject. Because every time I have spoken out about God and Jesus, it's always a JW who had denied the truth about them both. So if you are trying to convince us to believe you, then its best to tell us, why" why do you all believe your teachings are right' while the God in the bible is wrong' at least one of you could explain why' you believe it

goodnews201668:
So God gave Jesus authority to create himself? Na waoo, which portion of the Bible supports that or you just formulate that one? Where in the Bible did God give Jesus authority to create himself?
Let's start from there.

Lucifer was the first angel and was cast out of heaven because he wanted God's throne, and sit as God in the heavens. And of course a war broke out and Lucifer and his angels were cast out of heaven.
What I don't understand is how you believe this story about Michael an archangel becoming Jesus, Lucifer was cast out because he wanted to sit as God, but with your story God had given all His authority over to the archangel Michael, given Michael complete authority to become God's Son?
So God didn't want Lucifer to take on His authority, but you believe God gave all His authority to Michael and sits as God's right hand man It wasn't God who gave Michael a place to be His Son, this authority came from you? The JW's have given Michael all the ownership to the kingdom of God. So can anyone share a little light on this subject, And why do you believe it

Sarang:
I think thats your own story

A saviour means someone who saved.
A messenger means someone who was sent a message.

Before Jesus became our saviour he was a messenger.

As per your story of Micheal, I dont get it.
I dont know about Micheal been a ministering spirit but I l know that the bible calls him An Archangel
This word has no plural form in hebrew so it is only right that it addresses one person.

If Jesus is the only begotten son of Jehovah,it authomatically means Jesus is Second only to Jehovah.

The title of an archangel is fitting for him.
Thess 4:16 is the vivid evidence that Jesus is the archangel.

Which makes Jesus Micheal and it is rightly so cos all the angels have names too.

Jesus was his earthly name.

{John 14:9-10} Could you show me in word where Jesus told Philip he is right and he is wrong? Does this mean your theory is far above the word of God, and the lord's role was sent by God only as a messenger, and not our savour?

Anyway why can't I address Jesus as Michael, there is no time to shy away from the truth, and the truth has always reminded us the truth will set us free, the JW's don't need to hide away from the people. God the Father had given Michael a chance to become Jesus, and from a ministering spirit Michael now has every right to sit as God, calling himself "Immanuel God with us" and now sits on God's right side.
You should be proud, without holding back any truth about the JW's, God had made Michael in His own image, and gave Him His full authority to be God who created Himself to walk amongst men in the flesh, and died for His people because God so loved the world He sent His only begotten Son to save sinners, the spirit of an archangel and the Spirit of God have become one spirit. And both spirits have become one man in His own image.
Is this how your story sounds?
But the bible say's in {Hebrews 1:5} {Hebrews 1:13} Which of the angels did God ever say you are My Son, and you sit here on My right side?

Sarang:
Spirit needs a body to survive? Hahaha! this is the first time am hearing this.

Like ghosts you mean,in movies?lol

Jesus said the above statement to philip,you are right but you are also wrong,in the way you presented the meaning.
Jesus simply means I represent My father.

You've never witnessed a situation whereby the president was unable to attend an occasion and thus sent someone to represent them?
Of course in this case it's different. but yes,Jesus represented Jehovah in that he acts like him,speaks for him and completely showed the world to him.

Even Jesus said so himself that "I do not speak of my accord but of the one who sent me."
Jesus acknowledged the fact that he was sent.
Jesus was only a messenger and it is only reasonable that the sender is greater than the messenger

I do not understand what you mean but the idea of trinity is not biblical at all,it stemed from the Babylonian worship and adopted into christiandom.
There is nothing like in the same body.
If you believe in Jesus,you also believed in Jehovah..why?
Cos Jesus represented Jehovah.

We have reasons to believe that Micheal was Jesus heavenly name before he came to earth and aftet he returned,so please you can address him as Jesus so that other people will not be confused.

There was no other angel that Jehovah asked to sit at his right hand except Jesus because there was no other angel that died for our redeemtion except Jesus.
Do you know what it means to die for another person? I bet you wouldn't even dare but Jesus did and for that he was rewarded,yes he sat at his Father's right hand.

I will ask you this question logically speaking,can you sit with someone and be that person?
And yes we are always here to answer your questions from the bible.

Feel free to drop any

Ha Ha ha Any-one would think even the JW's would know these verses. But you obversely don't.
{Romans 8:10-11} If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the Spirit is alive because of righteousness, but if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus From the dead, dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of His Spirit who lives in you.
{1 Corinthians 6:19-20} Have you not heard our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, sent by God. {1 Corinthians 3:16} Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple, and God's Spirit lives in you.
{James 2:26} Have you not heard a body without a Spirit is dead-so also Faith without works is dead.
{John 14:9-10} Jesus said don't you know Me Philip Anyone who has seen Me, has seen the Father-Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me.
{Matthew 1:23} God's Spirit had entered into A Virgin who will conceive and give birth to a Son, and they will call Him Immanuel" God had taken the form of a man to live among us as Immanuel, {Which means "God with us"}
{John 10:30} I and the Father are one.
{John 20:28} Thomas said to Jesus My lord and My God.

As it shows the bible has many surprises written who Jesus really is.
But its organizations like yours who would rather deny the truth about Christ, filling yourselves, with ambitions cursing those who love Christ, mocking & hating one another, men and women of corrupt minds destitute of the truth, causing deputes and arguments over words, that you can-not believe to the point of death

Sarang:
Spirit needs a body to survive? Hahaha! this is the first time am hearing this.

Like ghosts you mean,in movies?lol

Jesus said the above statement to philip,you are right but you are also wrong,in the way you presented the meaning.
Jesus simply means I represent My father.

You've never witnessed a situation whereby the president was unable to attend an occasion and thus sent someone to represent them?
Of course in this case it's different. but yes,Jesus represented Jehovah in that he acts like him,speaks for him and completely showed the world to him.

Even Jesus said so himself that "I do not speak of my accord but of the one who sent me."
Jesus acknowledged the fact that he was sent.
Jesus was only a messenger and it is only reasonable that the sender is greater than the messenger

I do not understand what you mean but the idea of trinity is not biblical at all,it stemed from the Babylonian worship and adopted into christiandom.
There is nothing like in the same body.
If you believe in Jesus,you also believed in Jehovah..why?
Cos Jesus represented Jehovah.

We have reasons to believe that Micheal was Jesus heavenly name before he came to earth and aftet he returned,so please you can address him as Jesus so that other people will not be confused.

There was no other angel that Jehovah asked to sit at his right hand except Jesus because there was no other angel that died for our redeemtion except Jesus.
Do you know what it means to die for another person? I bet you wouldn't even dare but Jesus did and for that he was rewarded,yes he sat at his Father's right hand.

I will ask you this question logically speaking,can you sit with someone and be that person?
And yes we are always here to answer your questions from the bible.

Feel free to drop any

{John 1:18} No-one has ever seen God at any time, but the one and only Son. Lets read {John 14:9-10} Jesus answered don't you know Me Philip, even after I have been among you for such along time? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say show us the Father. Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me?
Next question does the JW's believe the Father is in Jesus' and Jesus' is in the Father {John 14:9-10} ?
But if you are finding it hard to believe the above, God's a Spirit and Jesus is flesh then two have joined together becoming one spirit one flesh-this of course wouldn't make any sense to you, only because you believe Michael became Jesus in the flesh and the father couldn't be one with Jesus, because Michael is spirit at the beginning and God's Spirit couldn't join with Michael's spirit because they are both spirits.
So of course you believe the Father and the son are two different spirits. and as we all know spirits need a body to survive, this is why you can't accept Jesus because you believe Jesus is Michael and Michael is a ministering spirit. So two spirits don't make up one.
But what your not understanding is God needed a body and that body is made of flesh and blood etc, spirits function better in bodies. So God sent His only begotten Son Jesus, to become one with Him. You believe Michael became that body, from a ministering spirit Michael became human, so of course Michael couldn't be one with His Father, because Michael was a spirit from the beginning. Michael is, Michael was, and Michael is coming back to save his people standing with the Almighty Jehovah God, both spirits standing together.
{Which of the angels did God ever say sit at My right side? Which of course God didn't create angels to be called Sons, but ministering spirits}
Some things just don't add up with your stories how people believe, the teachings sounds to far fetch, theirs no stories that leads to a good yarn, just some crack pot spread a yarn and you all believe him. No-wonder you can't answer us when we ask you so many questions. It must be a puzzle to you.

Sarang:
I said it and will still say it again, Jesus and Jehovah are two distinctive individuals. Honestly even though I do not understand what you are driving at, I will try my possible best to answer your questions.
First ,Jehovah's witnesses do not believe that Jesus is Jehovah. I do not know from where you might have heard it but it really is a lie.
Here are the reasons:
Jesus has a prehumen existence and he frequently spoke of this. John 1 verse 18 said" No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten god who is at the fathers side is the one who has explained him". Note that here Jesus was referred to as a god the same way he was referred to as a god on John 1 verse 1.
That is to say Jesus has a position of a high authority and this is rightly so because he was the firstborn of all creations, an only begotten son.(read col 1:15-16,John 3:16). Maybe you have never wondered why the bible calls Jesus an only begotten son. Begotten from the English dictionary means "to born or made out of", and the bible calling Jesus a begotten son means he was born or created. But what about the ONLY? It means the only person who was created by Jehovah himself and it is only natural that he has his fathers affection especially when he listens to his fathers voice. Colossians cited above completes it as" through him all other things were made.
Countless places in the bible Jesus was noted as calling 'FATHER. No one calls a father except they have one, he certainly couldn't have made that up for he was a honest Man
I explained rev 1 verse 7 before..
Once again I want you to know that Jehovah's witnesses allover the World believe in one God JEHOVAH and his son Jesus who is called Christ.(Deu 6:4)

No JW had showing anybody any bible scriptures correctly, matter of fact you have either changed the question that's been asked, or you have pushed the scriptures aside, knowing you can't answer them rightly.
I had asked a simple question and still the JW's have tried to confused the idea, that it don't exist.
Only because you don't know these answers yourselves, it puzzles you why your Greek scholars had written such verses that doesn't line up with any of your watchtower magazines.
And of course you either close that door' or you come up with scriptures that don't even line up with the scriptures we asked from you from the beginning.
Every JW I and others had written too have tried to lead us up the garden path, calling us names, showing us your hatred amongst yourselves towards us.
And you have the decency to call us haters, every JW I have written too always seem to have that gift of hatred, towards other Christians, is it because we seem to study our bibles a lot deeper and we refuse to believe in your Watchtower lies and your self-righteousness.
Question do you think I would make a good teacher? And they would accept me at the kingdom hall church? Just think the truth will set you free.

goodnews201668:
Thats how they behave, they can twist even what you have shown them in the Bible just to discredit the JWs. They don't know they are doing themselves.
People are already begining see what they are, haters and liers.

OK I WILL MAKE IT SIMPLE FOR YOU TO READ, THEY CAN'T FIND JESUS, LET ALONE GETTING TO KNOW HIM. ONE WOULD THINK CATHOLIC'S WOULD KNOW WHOM THEY WORSHIP MORE THEN THE REST OF THE WORLD, BUT THEY DON'T. THIS IS WHY JESUS HAD CALLED HIS OWN CHURCH OUT FROM THEM. SO WE DON'T WORSHIP AN UNKNOWN GOD.

Jusmudi:
Taaaaaaaaaa na lie oooo read d post again

Good question to ask? I have asked questions like these before hand, and of course the JW's never seem to come back with any answers.
Only because they don't know, and Questions like these are to difficult for any JW to answer.
JW's believe Michael the archangel came to earth as Jesus in the flesh and return to Jehovah God as His Son returning himself back in the spirit, to sit at God's right hand side.
But this is what the bible says>{Hebrews 1:5} For which of the Angels did God ever say you are My son, and today I am your Father.
{Hebrews 1:13} For which of the Angels did God ever say, sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your foot stool.
And the answer to this question is NONE of the angels. Not even the archangel Michael had any authority to play that same role Jesus had.
This leaves the JW's without a leg to stand on, their own argument is worthless. They only believe in some fairytale story that never existed.

Ken4Christ:
You don't waste so much time for people who have made up their minds to believe their fabricated lies inspite of overwhelming evidences against them.

Up till now, no JW has been able to tell us what happened to the body of Jesus since they say he did not rise up bodily. Let's take them on this issue because this is where our Christian faith is hinged on. They can twist other topics to their own destruction

I am waiting for the answer. What happened to the body of Jesus?

Your Quote> I was asking you, who told you that Jehovah Witnesses believes that Jesus is God?
Well no-one told me in person-but It is written in your New World Translation bible. You have describe Jehovah God as Jesus Himself, every eye will see Jehovah God coming in the clouds, Not Jesus. {Unless the writer believes Jehovah is Jesus Himself}
It is Jesus who was, who is, and who is coming, it is Jesus who has the name the Alpha and the Omega. But it shows the scholars had taken Jesus's name out of text and replaced it with Jehovah God. Meaning those scholars who wrote your bible had all agreed that Jehovah God is Jesus or He has the same qualifications as Jesus, or maybe the scholars strongly believe Jehovah God and Jesus are coming down to earth at the same time, Both carrying that same name the Almighty with all their rightful authority.
Your scholars who had written the New World Translation bible, must believe Jesus and Jehovah are one the same.
And yet when I have asked you JW's none of you seem to believe they are one the same. So my question was why is it written in your bible if you don't believe?
This shows me clearly none of you JW's really believe in your bible? And yet you all confess you stand by it. Which contradicts yourselves when this question is asked, firstly you all seem to jump from one verse to another, trying to confuse the Idea. Only because the New World Translation does not line up with the watchtower magazines, they both teach two different doctrines.
And this is how it is written in the New World Translation Jehovah witnesses bible>{Revelation 1:7-8} Which say's look He is coming in the clouds, and every eye will see Him, and those who pierce Him. {Verse 8} I am the Alpha and the Omega say's Jehovah God. the one who is, and who was, and who is coming the Almighty.
What's confusing about you JW's is none of you really understand your own bible. Nor do you understand who translated it, I believe it confuses you that much, that you are well trained you have to find ways to avoid these scriptures. Only because it doesn't line up with your watchtower magazines. And you all refuse to believe what your bibles had said? No-wonder you jump from one verse into another, you don't really believe your bibles scholars had even listened to God while rewriting the NWT bibles..

Sarang:
Oh! I actually respected you cos I thought you are learned.
You don't know that (?) signifies question mark?
or just trying to maneuver my writing?
I was asking you who told you that Jehovah's witnesses believes that Jesus is God.

oops! You surprises me with your lies.
even rocking my name up and down with another misinterpretation and lies..

Bros abeg.
I am a Jw till thy kingdom come.

It is good you had finely realised Jesus is Jehovah God Written by Jw's. Does this mean you had actually read your bible?
Sarang has given all you non readers a good example, Sarang now believes Jesus is Jehovah God by JW. As written.
But for the rest of you' you really need to listen to your own wonders like Sarang, one who has stepped out of he/she's comfort zone-this evidence will rock the boat a little, which one of you will report Sarang to your authorities?
Finely" we have a break through?
If You would just sit down and study your own bibles, instead of talking rubbish with each other maybe you too could learn a little truth in this matter.
Forget about the watchtower magazines they are child's play, read your New Would Translation bible that was written by your so called elders, a book they all swear by, that none of you seem to recognize..

Sarang:
Jesus is Jehovah God by Jw?

Stop already bro.
Even Jehovah hates lies.

No one is denying the Father nor the Son, The argument was' the New World Translation bible admits Jesus is Jehovah God. {Revelation 1:7-8} No-one is denying that, not even the JW's who had written your bible.
So I don't really care if you believe either way, your own bible tells us Jehovah God is Jesus.

goodnews201668:
You seem not to get it, as powerful as Jesus is he never claim to be equal to God.
Jesus called his father the only true God, is it difficult to comprehend?
Take note that Jesus said one should have knowledge of his father and he himself, doesn't that tell you they two separate people?
Google about the origin of Trinity and see for yourself.

I have been inside a few of the JW churches in the past, bringing with me my King James bible, and every time I had entered the church, I found my King James bible was pushed aside, only because the JW's prefer to teach another doctrine, and that doctrine came directly from the watchtower magazines. A book that doesn't line up with the word of God.
The JW's would hand me a magazine so I too could be taught about the watchtower's teachings.
The JW's may not care if you bring your own bible along, but they do care, what doctrine they teach. And it isn't the word of God.

goodnews201668:
You are getting it wrong again, Jehovah's witnesses are the only people that'll come to preach and tell you to bring your own Bible. Any version, does your church do it?







Again Jehovah's witnesses aren't salesman, don't compare them with such.
They don't force it on anyone,
What words did Jehovah's witnesses believe that God has not written let's see how wrong you are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikUzTKBPYx4[quoter=Sarang post=44820685]You believe in the only true God JESUS CHRIST?
You don't know how much you just contradicted the bible now.

John 17:3 This means everlasting life their taking in Knowledge of you the only true God and Jesus whom you sent.(note: Jesus prayed).

If the above verse is quoted correctly,I do not hear Jesus calling himself only true God.

Jehovah's witnesses are one all over the world and have no denominations like Watchtower,etc
I don't really know where you get those from but please refrain from speaking ill against other religions.

Pentecostal? I know you guys very well.
Jehovah's witnesses believe in false gods that they don't know?
I think that comment should be directed back to you since you couldn't even decipher the difference between what the bible teaches and what you believe.[/quote]

The proof I have is the bible. Jesus didn't pay tithes. And also he didn't pay customs {tithes} or taxes freely, as we can read in {Matthew 17:24-27} The tax collectors said to Peter does your master not pay taxes, Peter said yes, and when he had come into the House Jesus asked him and said, "Simon" from whom from the kings of the earth take customs or taxes from their sons or from strangers? Peter said to Him from strangers. Then Jesus said to him then the sons are free.
Nevertheless least we offend them" go to the sea cast a hook, and take the fish that comes up first, And when you have open its mouth you will find a piece of money take that and give it to them for Me and you.
This scripture sums it up pretty well, Jesus said whom do the kings of the world takes custom or taxes, from strangers, or from their sons? Peter said from strangers THEN JESUS SAID THEN THE SONS ARE FREE Is Jesus not the king of kings and we are sons and daughters, this tells us we are free indeed.

Joagbaje:
Wrong , not some farmers but a whole nation. The people of God.



Of course not everybody earns income but Income earners paid tithes



He did , what proof do you have that he didn't



That's only an assumption. It's his property by right but he chose to return them.



It's a matter of choice . People gave tithe in livestock , agric produce and cash in bible days

Preachers are like salesmen, and if one salesman want's you to buy his product, then he/she will push it towards you, and if you don't know anything about the item his selling, then he/she will have you hook and line.
So yes a lying salesman could draw people in to believe in the product he's selling.
Same with the word of God, if he's preaching to you, and you don't follow up reading your own bible at that same time, then what he says can draw you in believing everything he has got you to believe.
So it is possible for you and the rest to believe in words that not even God had written it Himself.
Its another word for brainwashing.

Sarang:
You are really good at lying against people.
so you mean to tell me that all Jws are liers?
This statement actually makes you a lier and no one listens to a lier.
There is no way a large group of people will all be liers,its impossible.