₦airaland Forum

But the description Peter gave weren't his own, but God speaking through him. And because these words God spoke through Peter Jesus then said and on this rock I will build My church. Which means Jesus built His church on the word of God.

Sarang:
Peter was there with Jesus and he knows him fully well.
What better description can we give aside the one he gave?
We can only imitate,yes! Imitate their faith,their description,their walk and everything else there is.

Its nice you had written using your own words, but I am more interested in the scriptures, you need to prove Jesus paid a tithe and when?
Also it would be interesting if you can point out in scriptures everyone paid tithes, and could you explain why did God command only the Levites were to collect the tithes from certain farmers back than? And explain to me, are the pastors now classed as Levites, Is this why you tithe?

Joagbaje:
Wrong , not some farmers but a whole nation. The people of God.



Of course not everybody earns income but Income earners paid tithes



He did , what proof do you have that he didn't



That's only an assumption. It's his property by right but he chose to return them.



It's a matter of choice . People gave tithe in livestock , agric produce and cash in bible days

Tithing was under the law, and God gave a commandment for some farmers, Malachi says it all-bring all your tithes into the storehouse, so God could bless their lands with rain, not all people paid tithes. Not even Jesus paid tithes.
Abraham paid a custom {tithe} on goods that didn't belong to him.
The way God had commanded the people to tithe back then, isn't the same way how you tithe today.
Think about this-have you or had anyone else you know, had ever gone out into the streets, to witness and fed the poor, If your answer is yes? Then I ask you did you give them cash or food?

Joagbaje:
It's obvious you didn't read the thread . Tithe was given in cash and kind.

Luke 18:12 WEB
I fast twice a week. i give tithes of all that I get. '

Luke 18:12 amplified
I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I gain.

Luke 18:12. Living bible
I go without food twice a week, and I give to God a tenth of everything I earn. '

{Luke 18:12}I go without food twice a week and I give a tenth of everything I earn. God give the commandment to tithe only in food. I give up my food to give ten percent of it to the poor.
Of course it is Obvious I did read your page clearly, even you sound like a prosperity preacher.
Tithing was never given in cash. Neither did the Pharisees tithe in cash. {Matthew 23:23}
Which means you don't tithe the way God had commanded some Jews to tithe.

Joagbaje:
It's obvious you didn't read the thread . Tithe was given in cash and kind.

Luke 18:12 WEB
I fast twice a week. i give tithes of all that I get. '

Luke 18:12 amplified
I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I gain.

Luke 18:12. Living bible
I go without food twice a week, and I give to God a tenth of everything I earn. '

And it sounds neither you know anything about being born again.
If you Catholic's were born again Christians you wouldn't be worshipping the Mother of Jesus.
Theirs only one mediator.

paxonel:
They know absolutely nothing at all about born again

And do you tithe the way God commanded some Jews to tithe?, All have you re arrange your tithing skills for cash?
Show us viewers where does it say in scripture bring all your cash into the storehouse where my pastor maybe fed?
And if you can't produce such scripture, then I suppose this matter is closed.

Lemme make a little contribution to the thread.
First, i would that, it be clear that i'm not a pastor or whatsoever anyone might think. The thinking of some as regards to the subject that anyone who agrees to such is brain washed or a pastor is shameful.
That point made, i'd add to what has been said that the subject is yet in existence and is valid.
My point comes from the word of the Master himself. The words of the Master is greater than the words of every one in the scriptures. His words can never fail.
And i yet discover that the Lord did not intend that tithe should go extinct.
We know the Lord is supreme and He is greater than Moses. The authority He commands is one that Moses did not have.
And we read of how the Master showed that when He brought the law of Moses to a wrap and introduced Kingdom principles (which the law was trying to do).
The master showed it here,

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in
danger of the judgment.’
But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the
judgment. And whoever says
to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be
in danger of the council. But
whoever says, ‘You fool!’
shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:21-22

Here, the Lord showed Supremacy when He said, BUT I SAY UNTO YOU....
Again, the Master said on another occassion,

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou
shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a
woman to lust after her hath
committed adultery with her
already in his heart. Matthew 5:27-29

Again, we see the Lord's supremacy when He used the phrase "BUT I SAY UNTO YOU". The "BUT" showed He was bringing a change here.
But now, the Lord comes to the issue of tithe and behold what he said,
But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue
and every herb, and neglect
justice and the love of God.
These you ought to have
done, without neglecting the
others. Luke 11:42ESV

Is it not revealing? The Lord did not use the phrase, "BUT I SAY UNTO YOU". Instead, He said, These you ought to have
done. Thats one big reason to show the Lord never abolished it.
By this, we understand that the Lord never put an end to it, He commended it.
People ask why there was no record of tithe in the book of Acts of Apostles. And i tell them, the book of Acts shows the Church in its evolving stage. The Church as contained in Acts was not perfect, it was evolving. A good bible student will spot that maturity increased in the Church. The Church we read of in the early chapters is not the same in maturity as that we read of in the later chapters. The Church was still experiencing growth.
And the greatest reason why a thing should be done is not because the Apostles taught it but because the Master said so.
Tithing is not yet extinct. If the Master was aware of it and did not personally scrap it but approved it, i see no reason why some one should try to convince me other wise.
Shalom!

Why do Catholic's pray through Mary-simple they don't know Jesus.

Beware of Watchtower mag's, theirs nothing in them that directs you to Christ.

joyandfaith:
jehovah witnesses and Jesus
download a copy free at www.jw.org

And yet the JW's call Jesus Almigthy. {Revelation 1:7-8}{Revelation 1:18}{Revelation 22:12-20} Would you prefer to read the watchtower mag's, that give no evidence of any truth what your bible has to say, you should read the New World Translation JW version, it may even blow your mind. And maybe you would think twice about writing such rubbish back to me.
I am not interested in your lies, nor am I interested in your feedbacks, if you can't come up with any truth about what your bible has to say, then don't write.
What you don't understand is people like myself are always looking for the truth about the word of God, we are not looking for a witness who can only believe their religion is above all other religions.

joyandfaith:
Jesus is Mighty God not Almighty God according to Bible and jw. you a liar.

None you have written makes any sense?
Let me explain to you the differences between the tithe and tax, Taxes are used to pay for the land, I suppose you haven't heard of the book called the ACTS" every country has one. The Acts was written under God's law.
In many countries Taxes are used to support the land and everything in them, that's including people. the taxes are also used to help those in need, and in most countries the taxes are used under the welfare acts to help support families who can't survive on their own, not having work they seem to lean on the support that's given to them. Also a percentage of the income tax is returned yearly to everyone who applies. Unfortunately some countries don't see their taxes returned to them, Because as the word says In {1 Timothy 6:5} Men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth who suppose that godliness is great gain. From such withdraw yourselves.
Collecting tithes was never meant to be a money back guarantee system, God had commanded tithes to be used only for some people to tithe crops stocks and merchandise to the Levites, only because they couldn't own any land.
God already knew about the tax system and everyone paid their taxes in cash. Tithing had other meanings for support, and it wasn't tax money.
Tithing money started way back from the Roman Catholic Church when they needed money to rebuild their Church.
Not even Jesus nor the apostles taught about tithing in the New Testament, tithing started when God gave this law to the Jews' as stated in the verse that immediately follows the tithe instructions in {Leviticus 27} These are the commandments, which the Lord commanded Moses for the children of Israel on Mount Sinai {Leviticus 27:34} God gave this law of the tithe through Moses to the Israelites {the Jews} at Sinai.
Nothing here says anything that God commanding anyone other then the Israelites to tithe?
But if you are calling yourself a Jew, and you believe the Law was given to you from Moses' then feel free to tithe, but do it the way God had commanded the Israelites to tithe, bring all your tithes which is a food product into the storehouse. So My people maybe fed.

asalimpo:
Dyu read your comments before you post?
Tithe is a tax (or a type of tax).
How does that translate into tax is tithe?

A benz is type of car.
does that mean, cars are benz!

By your reasoning:
electricity bill is a type of bill.
water bill is a type of bill.
So paying electricity bill to water board absolves you of your obligation to nepa! -


circular illogical reasoning.. please think before you retort.

If you really believe a tax is classed as a tithe, then I pay my 10% taxes to the land, each year, which means I have given to God, by obeying the law of the land. And I don't need to tithe-tax else where supporting the rich to become richer.
{Matthew 17:24-27} The tax collectors asked Peter does not your teacher pay temple taxes, Peter said yes, and when he had come into the house Jesus was the first to speak, what do you think Simon, He asked, from whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers? Peter said to Him from strangers." Jesus said to Him then the sons are "FREE". Nevertheless lest we offend them, go to the sea, and cast a hook, and take the fish that comes up first. And when you have open its mouth, you will find a piece of money, take that and give it to them for Me and you.
So you see Jesus really didn't have any attentions to pay a tax, no-tithes no taxes, and because He wasn't looking for an argument, He told peter to go and catch a fish. And Jesus said the sons are free, are we not sons?
So instead of trying to prove your own theories, try and give as scriptures to prove we must pay tithes on top of taxes in cash every week?
But if you can't produce the evidence, which you won't, than this matter is closed.

asalimpo:
the bible tithe is 10% . tithe is a tax, if you know what a tax is. As for you "food industry " logic - that's plain garble.
The isrealites paid tithe on food and livestock because they were an agrarian society.
The tithe is on "all increase". if you dont want to pay in kind you can pay the equivalent value in cash.

First answer this>where do we keep Jesus in a church building, or in our hearts?
And tell me, what rights have you got to try and corner me into a Church building so you can cause mockery and insults to an Church organization I may not be following. You should be looking for all the corruptions that's "worldly known" in your Church, before you think to judge another.

CANTICLES:
ogbeni, who ask you all this ?

simple question: Which church do you associate with ? tell the name ? tell us their website and let's see if they follow the scriptural counsel regarding what's to be done to unrepentant sinners . simple


abi aya e n ja ni ?

Fixed for the rich who want to be rich, but not scriptural. And tithes isn't classed as taxes, taxes were paid with Money as it was back then and how it's paid today.
Tithing came under the food industry.
And Churches are running because the spirit of greed had entered into the hearts of men.

asalimpo:
All kingdoms have a tax system for running it. God's kingdom runs on tithe and offering.
That's how the churches are run.

If you pay income tax of 40%+, then what is a 10% tithe. it's fixed and unmovable. not fluctuating like those of worldly kingdoms.

Paying tithes isn't difficult, it isn't scriptural to do so. And if you are a tithe payer, than I advise you to pay tithes the way God commanded you to pay in the old testament, Bring all your tithes and offerings, which were shocks, crops, and merchandise into the store house so My people maybe fed. Abraham paid from the spoils of war, merchandise that didn't belong to him, Once.
Keep your money spend it wisely on your families, feel blessed buy a house, car, whatever, give to the poor, support the strangers, help those in need.
The word says, some are pastors, some evangelist, some prophets, others teachers, some apostles do we all get paid financially ?

The things you ask none of it makes any sense. I am puzzled why you even believe you are a Christian, you have given me scriptures that not even you believe in them, so how can I answer them for you, when you don't listen to reason anyway. Your beliefs are based on fiction and theory, and none of that catches any thought. This is why I haven't answered your demands, you don't even believe in Jesus is the Son of God, but in some other form you believe Michael the archangel came to earth to take on the role to be the Son of God. So what scriptures I have written none so what ever' you agree with anyway, calling me a lair is your greatest tool, and yet its all written in the bible. But not your bible, because as we all know your so called Greek scholars had rewritten it, so the truth won't be revealed.
This argument isn't going anywhere, matter of fact you are kind of boring, you don't answer my questions, but yet you expect me to always answer yours. Theirs no way I would become a JW, as far as I am concern you are the biggest liars I have ever come across. Your organization has twisted the word of God by taken away the truth from God's word, by doing this you are leading thousands of lost souls to hell with you. Lying to the public is what you all have been trained to do.

{John 14:9} He who has seen Me, has seen the Father.

dolphinheart:
@ brocab

It stays bagged until evidence are brought forward to surpport the truthfulness of the story. its the person who says the story is true that will bring up evidences, if no proof is brought forward, the story will not be accepted!


brocab , why do you lie. You used the " lamb being born at a particular time" issue to determine when Jesus was born and not the other way way round. therefore if your lamb issue is faulty and cannot be proven, then jesus being born in Nissan period is also faulty and cannot be proven.


and you have been unable to provide just one example of how I twist your words.
If you cant understand , read it again before reply. And if you still dnt understand, ask and more details will be provided.


These sentence of yours shows how hard it is to understand what you are saying!


the bolded tells a lot about how you write.
brocab stop lying na!. you just formulate these things up as it comes to your head!, why are you so desperate to lie about the Jehovahs witnesses.


no need to think about better places to go, follow the instructions of Jesus and the examples of his disciples when they preached. They did not go from church to church.!


@ bold, can you see how difficult it is to understand what you write?.
that you can't answer those questions asked you about what you've learnt about Jesus, and can't respond to statements made by Jesus shows that the jesus that's recorded in the scriptures is different from the jesus you know, hence it will definitely be different from the jesus known to Jehovah Witnesses.

Your jesus is different cus he does not have a God like the jesus in the scriptures.
He does not have a head and he is not subjected to a God like the jesus in the scriptures. that is why anytime those verses are being presented to you, you act as if you did not see them.


continue lying, I've quote from the kjv several times to you on this thread, you cannot respond to them, and you are still asking why they dnt preach the bible.



you preach to them while going from church to church? liar!


you are a comfirmed liar!.



your refusal to quote those scriptures or give contrary explanation to the one I gave about those scriptures shows you aim is to always find fault whichever way possible.
those scriptures shows that Mary did go to the temple with her husband and Jesus. The law states that a woman who has given birth cannot enter into the temple until a time period had passed. The total time period is 40 DAYS. THEREFORE BROCAB, MARY COULD NOT HAVE ENTERED THE TEMPLE UNTIL 40 DAYS AFTER JESUS BIRTH! JOSEPH DID NOT WAIT 40 DAYS AFTER THE ANGEL TOLD HIM TO FLEE TO FIRST TAKE MARY TO THE TEMPLE. THE ASTROLOGERS WHO SAID JESUS HAD ALREADY BEEN BORN AND WANTED TO SEE HIM WOULD HAVE SEEN JESUS 40 DAYS OR MORE AFTER JESUS BIRTH!
If the above explanation coupled with the scriptures you refuse to quote, now added with the words found at matt 2:1, is not able to make you see that the astrologers could only see jesus in a house after he was born. then there's nothing further I can say.
If magicians, pagans and astrologers come for your children's birthday, you can invite them in. But I'm sure that Jesus parents who like every other loyal worshiper of Jehovah in isreal, wunt do so cus they dnt celebrate birthdays and view it as a pagan practise!


you are a comfirmed liar brocab, I've quoted and explained the scripture to you, you refuse to show proof about the lamb birth theory. From the moment you could not quote, accept or explain what the bible writer wrote in matt 2:1, (which i quoted from several translations to you), I knew all you will do next is to lie!. even when I showed you that Jesus was in a house and not a manger, all you could do was asked who payed the house rent.

and I've shown you the time frame, using events that happened around jesus birth.
Matt 2:1 tells us that they came to meet herod after jesus had been born!


dnt belong to what? told you to always complete your sentence.
Mary could not have entered the temple until 40 days after the birth of Jesus.
Joseph fled in the night immediately after the astrologers left.
therefore Mary could only have taken the child to the temple before the astrologers came!


matt 2:1 is an evidence that you have refused to quote or respond to! your refusal to respond to that verse shows you are a liar.
brocab, some people at the temple knew who Jesus is, and they did not hide their knowledge.


can you quote scriptures that surpport the bolded above. Jesus himself called the father "THE ONLY TRUE GOD", is the jesus the father ? no ooooo ooo!
you can see that you are not even sure again about which day the astrologers came to see jesus.
The astrologers have more than once, told you why they wanted to see jesus!

you go wait for that one, wunt allow it distract the issues at hand. still need to handle some scriptures you have refused to respond to.

I'm not the one saying "I'm this" "I'm that" na, so where did i show pride?

see again!? You cannot quote the last verse of matt chapter 1 and first verse of matt chapter 2, cus its content shows you a liar.
why wunt you view it as "clam up", when your aim is to lie about . The record about the astrologers as stated in Matthew, started AFTER Jesus had been born!

let's clear some of these issues up pls before you run to another one, the issues have been stated several times. They are posted once again below.
[b]
Note :
Brocab, you have still refused to:

(1)Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work.

(2) bring out one thing that I wrote that the organization denied!
Note: the organization, and not a third party, or outsider must deny it. It must be from official sources.
Your failure to do so will comfirm to all that you are a liar, someone who use lies to respond to the truth being shown to him.

(3)Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!.
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.

(4) Tell me brocad, which organization today does these(the preaching work) best, the way Jesus proscribed and the disciples practised. I know you know it, but hatred will now allow you mention them.

(5)You are a systemic liar, the God I worship was never a human and I never said or implied so!.

You cannot attempt to answer the questions :
When you say he is spirit, are you saying God is the spirit in Jesus when he was here on earth?
Pls say yes and ill show you how much of your doctrines is full of falsehood.
Saying no will show that your doctrine lacks prove.(I believe you wunt answer anyway)
Examine this questions brocab 1. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth?
2. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit?
4. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am"
5. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit.
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.

You cannot answer if Jesus is the same person as the father.

You cannot respond ;
Liar, liar, liar! Show where I said so. Show where I used the words " Jesus isn't a God".

You can't do this :
Simply quote and explain rev 1:1-6 from any translation of your choice
Explain verses 1 and 6....
Tell use who is talking in rev 3:2,12.....


brocab , readers will note(again and again) that you have NOT quoted and explained ANY of the following scriptures :

1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9:11
12. john 14:6
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7
16. ps 28:18

And a host of others ill add later.

Brocab , examine these scripture
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.

Jesus is Gods only begotten son, Jesus is not God almighty ![/b]

A church is now classed as a business company.
I am not one who has a church that I can call home, But really do I need a church that preachers after another doctrine about tithing.
I remember the day's God had called me into His kingdom, I had always wondered why He never mentioned to me about tithing. But the church I was attending too at the time had. Deep down I didn't understand about the tithing rules, but I was told its right in the eye's of God, and as a young Christian I didn't have the understanding about the word of God, fresh from the streets, I felt ripped off, God never mention anything about paying out money to Him?
I followed after the church rules and I ended up paying tithes, deep down my heart didn't feel right to do so, but I stuck it out, years later I had asked the Lord to show me in scripture, I said Lord my heart doesn't feel right deep down about these tithes and it never did feel right.
And while I was reading the word of God He had showing me {Matthew 6:25-27} For this reason I say to you do not be worried, about your life. as to what you will eat, or what you will drink, nor for your body, as to what you will put on, is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air, they neither sow nor do they reap, nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them, Are you not worth much more that they? And who of you, by being worried can add a single hour to his life.

It took years for me to ask God about tithing, but thank God I did. Because now I know the truth, and the truth was always in me, all I had to do was to ask God to reveal this truth to me.
Tithing Is used only to retrieve peoples weekly wages or your bank accounts, in this day and age pastors have a direct debit that belongs to you. That finances his kingdom he is building for His own self glory that he see's' not in the word of God, but in his self management money back guarantee lie.
Ask the Lord yourselves, because the truth will set you free.
I receive the same blessing's everyone receives.

Amplified bible-{John 4:23} "But the time is coming, and is already here when the true worshippers will worship the Father in Spirit {From the heart the inner self} and in truth, the Father seeks such people to be His worshippers. God is Spirit {The source of life, yet invisible to mankind} And those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth.
As I had said from the beginning God is Spirit, and no one has seen God at any time.
KJ Bible-{Matthew 10:19-20} But when they hand you over, do not worry but how or what you are to say, for what you are to say, will be given you WITHIN that {very} hour. For it is not you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
{The Spirit of God speaks through us, like He did with Peter}
If God was another man, then how can another man speak through another man?
{John 15:26} "When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father the Spirit of truth who go's out from the Father-He will testify about Me.
If the Father was another human being, as you Jw's believe He is, Then Jesus would see God, and God wouldn't send Moses and Elijah who stood in Spirit with Jesus on the mount. He would come Himself.
So this proves Jesus can only speak to God through word, Not as a Spirit being like Moses and Elijah had come.
And if God was a man like being, then How does one man speak through another, if God is a man Himself? Would God not Have a spirit form like Moses and Elijah? Did Jesus only speak to God in Spirit, that no-man has seen at any time. Jesus had always spoke of God as a Spirit, He never spoke of God as a second man.
And if God is the Spirit, and Jesus came to earth as a man, filled with the Holy spirit that proceeded out from the Father God, then one spirit and one man equals one being working together in Spirit and in truth.
Like in a marriage we become one.
{1 John 5:7} "For theirs three that bear record in heaven, The Father the word and the Holy Ghost, and these three are ONE.
But because your NWT bible had removed many of these scriptures, It makes it difficult for you to understand, what we understand.
No-one is denying the Father, but in your case-you believe the father is like another human being, when the bible clearly states He is not.
So Jesus was not denying that God existed {Philippians 2:5-11} Having this mind amongst yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though He was in the form of God, did not account equality with God, a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, by taking the form of a servant being born in the likeness of men, and being found in human form, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death. even death on the cross. Therefore God has highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth. and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
He and the Father are one, one Spirit one man. John 20:28 When Thomas said My Lord and My God, why didn't Jesus correct Him? Acts 7:59-60 Why did Steven call upon God, and saying Lord Jesus receive my spirit? And why did Jesus say before Abraham I am?
So theirs a lot to answer for, and your bible removing these missing links sure makes a difference in word.

You are a real hypocrite, because you don't know about any issues, don't bag it until you can find out solid evidence, if its true or false. I had spoken about the lambs because it was that time of the year Jesus was born, woooo unless you think Jesus was born in Dec?
You try and twist every word I write, that's good I am still trying to understand yours. You don't explain sentences to well do you.
I sometimes wonder am I writing to a child? Your spelling is shocking.
It shows you don't understand the meaning of worship, I suppose you wouldn't because you don't sing and praise any worship songs to Jesus inside your Church, I should know because as I would sit with the JW's and listen to the words spoken from their Watchtower magazines, never did I see a bible used inside their churches.
Jesus said go out unto the world and preach the gospel, and I thought what better place is to go, is meet with other believers, but the only problem I found was difficult was the JW's preached another Jesus, and another Father God. I had asked them why don't they preach the bible, I was told, they only use their bibles when they are out witnessing. And the church is based upon the Watchtower..
But I still witnessed to them about Jesus, until they asked me to leave.
The JW Church is like at first a room of silence, then someone tells the church about their church actives, then everyone sits quite until some one {preacher} starts reading from the Watchtower magazines, asking questions, while the sitters rise their hands and answer them, it was like sitting in a classroom at a School. So I can understand why you don't know the meaning to praising and glorifying God, its another word for celebration, a gathering, knowledgeable, happy, enjoyable, Is usually used when their is a church gathering. Singing Joy to the Lord.
So I see' you are only guessing about the wise men and your 40 day theory? Which you haven't rightly backed up with any scriptures only these two that don't fit the bill> {Luke 2:23 Leviticus 22:2-4} Mr big mouth himself, had finally admitted he doesn't know' when and where the wise men had seen the child?
No scriptures proves otherwise? And you calling me a lair and you can't come up with the answers either? No-one is interested in any of your theories. You did say you could answer what time flame the wise men had seen the child? Guessing a point of view isn't the same as the scriptures written in the bible' now is it?. Without having the evidence, you really have showing us the truth about yourself? Having a lying tongue like yours, providing me with verses that don't belong. Besides Your story sounds too far fetched. Does this mean you are glassed as a bigger lair because you couldn't produce any bible evidence?
With my own interpretation" Not the bible" Pagan or not? Mary and Joseph had accepted the gifts that were given to the Child, and I believe Jesus received the gifts before everyone around the district knew He ever existed.
Even if it was a day later the wise men still gave gifts to Jesus for His arrival, celebrating His birth, {Birthday} celebrating the King of the Jews had FINALLY ARRIVED. The story tells us the shepherds had worshipped the child with great joy, praising God for sending the One and only 'true God" Jesus Christ. Amen.
Mr dolphinheart. I can't wait until you answer me why you believe Jesus is Michael the archangel? When God said {Hebrews 1:5} "For to which of the angels did God ever say "You are My son.
And in {Hebrew 1:13} "For to which of the angels did God ever say "Sit at My right Hand.
And did you enjoy all the missing scriptures or lets say the change around scriptures that was removed or twisted around from your bible?
Interesting isn't it.
Now don't let your big noting pride get in the way? it was between the last of Matthew 1, and the beginning of Matthew 2. Its like the theory of the wise men the scriptures clam up. That not even you can come up with any of the answers.

dolphinheart:
@ brocab

Brocab, "was" was in relation to the question "WHERE" which came up as a result of knowledge about the prophecy .
Herod knew NOTHING about the birth of jesus, and had to rely on Prophecy made long ago(before jesus was born) which recorded WHERE jesus WAS to be born. Removing "was" as the theme of herods question is bad english.
You rely on questions by herod, but refuse to acknowledge to other definite records in matt. The one indicated by the writer who says the astrologers came to herod AFTER jesus had been born, and the one of the astrologers who indicated to herod that jesus had already been born! Jesus had already been born when they saw the star in the THE EAST, a very far away place!. Are you saying the scriptures and the astrologers are lying ?


Brocab, you are a liar, you can say anything just to achieve you aim. The scriptures tell us who the astrologers saw when they came to meet jesus, the list is different from who the shepherds saw. The scriptures tell us where the shepherds saw jesus, this is different from where the astrologers saw jesus. The astrologers did not meet jesus in a manger, they met him in a house.

The isrealites, loyal servants of jehovah do not celebrate birthdays , so its not a coincidence that you can't find it recorded anywhere in the scriptures the date of birth of any loyal servant of jehovah. Therefore, the parents of jesus would not have welcomed any pagan worshiper, no matter how rich, if their intention is to come and celebrate jesus birthday. When the Jews came earlier, there was no celebration or giving of gifts!
No merriment, cus they do not celebrate birthdays!
Even the joyful state of the astrologers was done outside the house and not inside where jesus was.


Led by whom!?
Isrealites knew that the messiah will come and where he will be born, the astrologers knew this cus they have read the prophecy too. Part of the prophecy expecially about the time the messiah will arrive was writing in their lands, the east.


Woah!, hope its not the spirit in you that pushing you to use derogatory words!

You are not speaking out of line, you spoke in line, but the lines are lies built on fabrications, and that's what I keep pointing out to you.


Pls show where I insulted your bible o! . Or do you count stating facts as insult?


State the missing scriptures, prove they are missing and then we will compare translations to see if you are right or you are just lying again.


I've quoted several times from your bible, and in all those several times , you could not respond, quote or explain one of them!
I've even offered that you quote some particular verses from any bible of your choice, but up till now, you refuse to do so.


The scriptures recorded that jesus started rising and he was covered in the clouds. I've not and will not try to find out who took him there, so if you think you have an answer to that, pls share.
Heaven, where God resides is not a physical place you can fly to.


The questions are borne out of the holes created by your explanations and theories. Answering the questions will block the holes, not answering
Them will show to that your doctrines are false.
Calling the questions silly is a way of avoiding them.

That ill gladly do.
1. Jesus could only have been seen by the astrologers , 40 days or more after his birth, cus mary would have only been able to take jesus to the temple after her 40 days of uncleaness is over . This is according to jehovahs instructions found in leviticus 12:2,4. And Luke 2:23

2.The events recorded after the the astrologers came was swift, the scriptures even used words to express the urgency at with the angels told Joseph to flee and the timing of Joseph fleeing. They would not have waited 40 days or more to go to the temple in Jerusalem and back to betlehem before they fled. The scriptures even expressed herods state of mind when the astrologers approached him.
Therefore it is better to say that the astrologers came to see jesus 40 days or more after his birth, giving mary , Joseph and jesus enough time to go to the temple and present jesus, and enough time to find a house to stay.

[b]And being warned of God in
a dream that they should not
return to Herod, they departed
into their own country another
way.
And when they were departed, behold, the angel of
the Lord appeareth to Joseph
in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
When he arose, he took the
young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt.

No time between this for them to stay 40 days in the house, but from the story of the astrologers until when they met herod and later jesus , those 40 days can fit in easily multiple times.


Brocab, I never told you mary rented a house, the scriptures said mary was in a house when the astrologers came.


Quote the last verse in chapter 1 and the first verse in chapter two and then try to repeat what you just said.

You refused to tell us which verse in chapter 2 jesus was said to be born.


I just quoted verse 1 of matt chp 2 using different translations brocab. Haba!



True and false viewpoint are being separated using the scriptures as a guide. Anytime you bring up an issue, I use different scriptures to clarity my views, I also use the scriptures you put forward to show your views as false. My views you can't contradict, the scriptures I posted you can't explain .
If you think God is using you, then quote and explain some if not all of the scriptures I've accused you of not being able to respond to. You will find them again at the end of these post.


That's another lie, name one theory of mine I've giving that I did not back up with scripture, if I did not do so then, ill do it immediately


Then let's learn from you the meaning of jesus words found in bible passages I've posted to you several times to respond to.

It just shows you don't read what I have written, I have listed many of the scriptures your bible have removed-Here I will write It again.
MATTHEW 17:21, 18:11, 23:14, COMPLETELY REMOVED.
MARK 7:16, 9:44, 9:46, 11:26, 15:28, COMPLETELY REMOVED.
MARK 16:9-20 {ALL 12 VERSES} They separated the last 12 verses of MARK from the main text in an appendix {of sorts} with this detracting statement. "Some late manuscripts and versions contain a short conclusion after MARK 16:8 as follows} New World Translation Revised 1984 Edition.
LUKE 1:28, 17:36, 23:17, COMPLETELY REMOVED.
JOHN 5:4 COMPLETELY REMOVED.
JOHN 7:53, 8:11, {ALL 12 VERSES} They separated the last 2 verses of MARK from the main text and placed it at the bottom of the page in a appendix {of sorts} with the detracting statement. "Manuscripts NBSYS omit verses 53 to chapter 8 verse 11 Which read {with some variation in the various Greek text and versions} as follows."
ACTS 8:37, 15:34, COMPLETELY REMOVED.
ACTS 24:6-8, Vitally important phases {from verse 6,8 and all of verse 7 COMPLETELY REMOVED.
ACTS 28:29 COMPLETELY REMOVED.
ROMANS 16:24 COMPLETELY REMOVED.
COLOSSIANS 1:2, 2:2, COMPLETELY REMOVED.
1 JOHN 5:13 COMPLETELY REMOVED.
REVELATION 1:11, 2:15, 21:24 COMPLETELY REMOVED.
And the One that is the most favoured to all us believers is 1 JOHN 5:7 A VIRALLY IMPORTANT PHASE COMPLETELY REMOVED In the Jehovah Witnesses "NEW WORLD TRANSLATION "ITS SAYS "FOR THEIR ARE THREE WITNESS BEARERS."What are the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION readers missing?
And what does the real bible say?
"FOR THEIR ARE THREE THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN, THE FATHER THE WORD AND THE HOLY GHOST AND THESE THREE ARE ONE.
This time you won't be able to miss it, its all written so you could even see it without your glasses on.
It is quite a few scriptures that's been removed from your bible, sorry to say not only your bible but others too, this is why it is always best to have a King James laying around, so every time you can't find some verse you will always find it in the good old King James.
{1 John 5:7} should never have been removed, from any bible. Every scripture is food for us to feed off, we need as much spiritual wisdom and knowledge our bodies could handle.
You will always find something to criticize me hey. And I have read some of your pages and theirs always missing letters from different words you write. And it's easy for you to call us lairs when you know you yourself haven't a leg to stand on when it comes to the word of God, your bible is empty.
The work began in December 2 1947 when the New world Translation committee was formed, and the first part of the Translation was in 1950.
So it wasn't the King James bible that added scriptures it was your bible that removed them and changed them.

Didn't you like my old timers story

dolphinheart:
@ brocab

Whenever you use the word "I" or "I am", what comes next will be suspected. But because no one can verify, you still tell it anyway.
But here on nairaland that some few things can be verified e.g your knowlege on certain scriptures put forward to you. You vehemently refuse to quote them and explain them.
You say they removed the scriptures, yet you can't show proof or answer why God name has been removed from places it occured in the scriptures by the king james version.


I'm not trying to prove you wrong,I have proved you wrong log time ago, starting from the first topic you shifted from.

He who can't explain numerous scriptures, who refuses to quote them is the one who has difficulty with the scriptures. I do not write the bible! Its already been writing!

Me angry? Nop. You are the one who used derogatory words. There is nothing abusive in my speech other than to state the fact.


What sounds like what! Pls give an example.
If you understand the word of God, then pls give an explanation on the numerous scriptures I quoted to you.
If you dnt understand it , then dnt.


I dnt need to recognise jesus. I dnt know how he looked like when he was on earth. But I know some wunt see him again, yet gain evalasting life.



At last, you have listed a verse which you think was removed from the scriptures.
1. You have refused to answer the accompanying question stating why the name of God was removed from the kjv(na your way)
2. You have refused to show prove that it was removed by the nwt translations.
Brocab because you find them in the kjv and not in nwt does not mean they are removed. It means they are not supposed to be there in the first place and was put there by people who wanted to achieve false aims or through scribal error.

This is why a majority of translations , including the nwt do not add that verse in their translations. They did not remove it, cus it was not there in the first place.

The translations that removed it later must have seen their mistake of adding it and thus removed it. As more and more revisions come out, more bible translators are knowing and accepting that those words in that verse do not exist in most reliable older manuscripts of Gods words.

Brocab even the authors of the NKJV know this, go and read their footnote on acts 8:37.
I'm sure you will not quote what the footnote says, therefore unless you quote that footnote for the world to see, it will remain clear that its your bible that added to the word of God! And not that the others removed it.

Looking at the evidence that those words should not be there, expecially when older manuscripts have been discovered after the kjv had been translated and much much after the scriptures have been divided into chapters and verses far outweigh the evidences shown that the verses should be there! Hence some who had added it earlier had started removing it!.
I tell you brocab, if the kjv do a revision today, not using the first tramation as basis as was used in other revisions , but translate the manuscrites using the one we have today (which had not been discovered during the first translation) , they will remove acts 8:37 cus its not supposed to be there, no matter how good the verse is.


The church (even according to you) is a gathering of christians who come to serve God together. A home is an abode where people reside. A house is a building which can be used for different purposes. Brocab, I dnt go from house to house where other people belief, I go from house to house to preach the word of God. If I enter your house and you say you belief certain things, its left for you to explain those things using the scriptures, and its left for me to also show you from the scriptures if you or I is right or wrong. So going from house to house, seeking meek hearted ones to share the word of God with, is not the same thing as going from church to church. The scriptures did not only state the method , it showed the method. And we can see that the disciples did not go preaching from church to church.



Again I state, anytime you say "I" or "l am", what comes next cannot be verified and would probably be a lie.

Has anyone heard of the saying we can only witness to one person at a time?
I remember the JW's would door knock in my area, I used to watch them watching my home, i always thought someone was stoking me, and it took one bright spark to finally knock on my door after months of waiting. I gathered the company they believed I had around me, weren't what they had imagined.
I gave him {Acts 8:37} KJ version, and told him I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, dumb founded as he looked, with the other scriptures I had shared, he then asked me if he could come back bringing with him some elders.
This is what I don't understand, you all believe you are taught by the right Godly sources, and yet you don't seem to have enough information to witness about Jehovah God to the other side. So this shows us, your bible does not hold enough information, that not even you know what the Spirit is teaching through the word of God, and by you removing these scriptures you have spiritually deadens yourselves. So the Spirit of God can't flow His anointed word through you giving you the right words to say. Its the word of God that strengthens us, every word that is written builds our Spiritual lives up to be closer to His kingdom.
It also shows in you Mr dolphinheart, I have notice the difficulty you show when writing the bible you have been trying so hard to prove another man wrong. Do you honestly believe Jehovah God would come across angry and abusive just like you do over words? If they didn't remove the scriptures in the first place, you wouldn't be acting the way you are now preforming, because you would have the right answers, and if you didn't you would understand the answers I have been given you, without the anger.
This is what happens when we talk with the atheist, men and women who don't understand the word of God, they seem to become angry very fast, only because they haven't the slightest idea what's been said.
It shows someone knew what they were doing, removing scriptures and changing what sounds like, not to build you up but deaden you spiritually. So when its time Jesus comes back, you won't even recognize Him when He calls.
So you wouldn't really know what sort of information you have is spiritually connecting to anybody. But if 8000 are coming in on a daily base, then something is going on, and it's true something is going on, we are near the end of days, and it's a race until the end.
If you haven't enough information about God then why witness in the first place? It shows your not witnessing for Him, because none so what ever understand the word of God clearly, and besides Michael is not Jesus, that's the first clue that proves you are not witnessing for Jesus. Because deep down you don't honestly believe He is the Son of God, because you have removed {Acts 8:37} completely from your bible text.

Jesus said go out unto all the world a spread His gospel, now I had put that same question to you Mr dolphinheart and of course you had rebuked the idea when I mention I go to Church to Church, and yet you would go house to house where other Christians believe, so what is the difference? How can you separate a church from a Christian home.
A funny story I will never forget-I remember when I was a child, my friends and I would light up sky rockets and penny bangers and throw them straight up the centre of the JW's church, we only done that because we thought it was funny at the time, we had JW's living next door, and their children were told not to hang with us, even thu the first chance they got, they loved that Idea to be with us. And they hated the idea living in a prison type system they felt they were in. Their sister also would rebel as much as she could.
This was where I first tried to understand you JW's, and still nothing appeals to me, I don't hate you, matter of fact I have heard the same stories over and over since I was a child. later I found out the young lads were married with other JW's. poor buggers. But hey they were great mockers, and because of them and their teachings I am now completely black listed. Until I move house again,

I see you are twisting my words again.
Just want to ask' are you partly blind? Herod said where "was" the Messiah "was" to be born, not "is" to be born. Using my own interpretation, "was" hasn't happen yet, And if it did, then it didn't take days to see the child, nor years, the wise men seen Him while the shepherds were still there at the manager, glorifying His name celebrating his name and giving Him gifts to the Messiah they were told He is the king of the Jews who had finally come.
They didn't find where Jesus was born. they were led to where he was born. And told He is the Messiah the king of the Jews
And I am not expecting a prick like you to insult me every time you think I am speaking out of line, you have insulted my bible since you have been on line with me, you aren't insulting me directly you are insulting Jesus. You really believe your bible or the Watchtower mags are correct We all know your bible does not line up with the King James nor does it line up with any other bible, it's a one off, that has missing scriptures. What you believe in, will never line up with me. I am reading it from my bible, that you call a misprint, or you say its false.
And what you believe I think it's funny, you believe Jesus is Michael the archangel, and God made the archangel to be His son. And your trying to prove to me no-one is laughing at you.
I just wanted to ask one Question did Jesus spread out His wings and fly to Heaven, all did God take Him to heaven? This is how your silly your questions sound to me when I am reading them, it sounds more like mocking then asking.
And without guessing as you do at all times, back up your theories and show me where in scripture where the wise men had seen Jesus after 40 day's He arrived back from the temple? And show me in scripture where Mary rented out a house in that time period? So we viewers can see the truth about Jesus.
Matthew 1 Jesus wasn't born until chapter 2, so here you are twisting the scriptures again, you should learn how to read the bible correctly. I wish your church allowed you to read from other view points about the scriptures, it would open up a hole new meaning for you to understand these verses clearly, God uses men and women to show us different ways the scriptures are read-you wouldn't jump in so quickly calling me a lair, because their's so many view points to pick from, this is how one gets Himself deeper into the word. Most times you come up with the most silliest answers, and you want people to believe in you, but you don't back it up with word to prove your theories, you must know that's what I believe this forum is all about for us to learn from each other, not just because you say so?
I have tried to read between the lines, it's funny you say one thing and write another, I took it from you, with a little guessing how long the wise men had travelled and now you are denying your own words. But none of it made sense, nor with your new theory after the 40 day period, Where in the bible is it written?
You do this all the time, and you have the cheek calling me a lair? Fair enough your not ready to know what time of year the sheep gave birth to their lambs, In what months, but keep it in mind, because one day someone may teach to you about this subject, and you will have some sort of an idea, But if you learn about the Jewish times of the year, Jesus was born in those times, because its the time of the year the shepherds could spend any time in the desert, other then that it's too cold at night.
See most people believe Jesus was born in Dec, but that's not true, and of course they celebrate His birthday on the 25th.
There is so much information out their that's ready to be picked, and theirs so many ways to learn about the bible, Christians love sharing their different views how God would like us to preform in our Christian walk. But the Spirit of God gives us discernment between the goods and the bad's, which I love most.
Some of the things I have come across is totally over the top, I quickly turn the page. This is one thing I love about believing in Christ is learning all the time, it never stops, its on going to seek His kingdom, but if I was bound to learn from just one Church, my understanding of the bible, would be Nil. And the training and the teachings I would retrieve, I could be bound like you, not knowing what the other part of the body is doing, while I am learning a Nil, my teacher could be teaching me a pack of lies, like the lie the Churches preach about tithing and Christmas day-and Michael the archangel came to earth calling himself Jesus. This is why the Spirit has given us discernment.

But you must admit to yourself you are actually reading the bible, and it's not from your own, so you have to be seeing the differences between the two, and had you noticed your bible haven't any of those scriptures that's needed for the body of Christ, to feed His people in growth, having the wisdom and knowledge sure helps us receive our strength to stand up against the demons the darkness and the principalities if this world. this is why it's important not to remove scriptures of any kind from the bible. The word of God strengthens us daily as we seek His word.
And if you deny this, then it proves you are a lair and the truth is not in you.

dolphinheart:
@ brocab
You dnt want me to see your reply? Or you dnt want to quote the numerous questions and scriptures posted to you?


Brocab , look at the bolded and look at how you contradicted it with the underlined.

In your own words you have shown yourself to be a liar.

Let's look at those verses again so as to expose this your false theory .
I'm going to quote the first sentence in Matt 2 :1 from different translations .

Matt 2:1
[b]New International Version
After Jesus was born in
Bethlehem........

New Living Translation
Jesus was born in Bethlehem......

English Standard Version
Now after Jesus was born in
Bethlehem of Judea in the
days of Herod the king,
behold, wise men from the
east came to Jerusalem,

Berean Study Bible
After Jesus was born in
Bethlehem.......

Berean Literal Bible
Now Jesus having been born.......

New American Standard
Bible
Now after Jesus was born.....

King James Bible
Now when Jesus was born in
Bethlehem......

Holman Christian Standard
Bible
After Jesus was born in
Bethlehem.......

International Standard
Version
After Jesus had been born in
Bethlehem.......

NET Bible
After Jesus was born in
Bethlehem......

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Jesus was born in Bethlehem
in Judea when Herod was
king. After Jesus' birth wise
men from the east arrived in
Jerusalem.

New American Standard
1977
Now after Jesus was born in
Bethlehem....

Young's Literal Translation
And Jesus having been born
in Beth-Lehem.......[/b]

Brocab , do you see that these scripture verse says jesus had been born, that it was AFTER the birth of jesus that the astrologers came to meet herod?
But in your own mind, and after reading this verse, you still say jesus has not been born yet! Wow!

Did you read very well the statement of the astrologers in verse 2.?
"Saying, Where is he that is
born King of the Jews?"

They did not say "will be born" , they believe jesus has already been born.

Because the astrologers and scripture statements shows jesus had been born, you decided to derive your false doctrine from herods statement . Brocab, herod did not ask when the child is to be be born, he asked WHERE the child is to be born. His question was based on a prophecy which was made long ago detailing where the messiah is to be born.
So turning where to when so as to achieve your false theory
Herod knew nothing about the child, hence herod could not have described that the child was not born yet. In trying to know the date about the childs birth , he inquired from the astrologers about the time they saw the star. The astrologers apparently had seen the star weeks if not months ago, cus they saw it in the east and it would have taken them time to get to Jerusalem, and more time see herod. Therefore your story to claim that jesus was born after they met with herod is false.



Brocab, its not a celebration of jesus being born, they where full of joy cus they found the location of the king of the Jews, they had previously stated that they know that jesus had been born.

The shephereds went to see jesus, they saw him the day he was born in a MANGER. Jesus and his mother where already in a HOUSE by the time the astrologers came.



So after these warning, they now still waited in Bethlehem for 40 days! Before they now fled to egypt? Brocab you can lie o!
That they fled after the visit of the astrologers, shows that the astrologers came only after jesus had been taken to the temple.!


The day you stop formulating false statement, you will start to understand the truth them .

You are saying herod who was visibly worried about the birth of the messiah waited 2 years before deciding to kill those children in Bethlehem? This logic is totally wrong.

Let's try a better one .
Chapter 1 of Matt ended with jesus being born, chapter 2 started with events that happened after jesus was born. The astrologers travelled from the east to Jerusalem , this took time,(weeks if not months) they saw herod , this took another time , herod called the priests in Jerusalem( another time taken) They travelled from Jerusalem to Bethlehem, saw jesus and left. All these could not have happened in one day, it could have happened over a period of two years .
The time herod decided to kill the children and the time Joseph received the warning is very short. These we can deduce from the scriptures
"And when they were
departed, behold, the angel of
the Lord appeareth to Joseph
in a dream, saying, Arise, and
take the young child and his
mother, and flee into Egypt,
and be thou there until I bring
thee word: for Herod will seek
the young child to destroy him.
14 When he arose, he took the
young child and his mother by
night, and departed into Egypt:

They would not have been told to arise and flee for an event that will happen 2 years later.

"Then Herod, when he saw
that he was mocked of the
wise men, was exceeding
wroth, and sent forth, and slew
all the children that were in
Bethlehem, and in all the
coasts thereof, from two years
old and under, according to
the time which he had
diligently inquired of the wise
men."
Brocab, herod would not have waited 2 years or so staying worried before killing those children.

Even though the term " new lambs does not have any scriptural backing, nor does the April /may false theory follow scripture timetable about the life of jesus,there is no linkage between the events of the shepherds and the events of the astrologers.
If jesus was born in April/ may, then jesus could not have died in nissan, but the scriptures told us jesus died in Nissan, so jesus could not have been born in Nissan.
Its left for you to prove the "new lamb" theory. But we know for certain, the shepherds saw jesus where he was born , but the astrologers did not see jesus where the shepherds saw jesus. So we can believe that the astrologers saw jesus long time after they had seen the star in the east. And shortly after they left , Joseph fled with his family to egypt , shorthly after that, herod killed the children

{Matthew 2:1-13} Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the wise men asked where is He who has been born king of the Jews? for we have seen His star in the east and have come to worship Him, then Herod asked them where the Christ the anointed was to be Born They replied to Him in Bethlehem.
By the description king Herod gave, Jesus wasn't born yet.

{V's 9} After hearing the king they went their way and behold the star, which they had seen in the east, went on before them leading the way, until it stood over a place where the young Child was, when they saw the star they rejoice excendingly with great joy, And after they entered the house they saw the Child with Mary the Mother and they fell down and worshipped Him.
{If that aren't a celebration that Jesus is born? Wow who knows how your mind thinks} {V's12} the wise men were warned in a dream not to go back to Herod they returned to their country by another route. {V13} Now when they had gone, an angel of the Lord had appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, Get up now and take Mary and the Child with you and flee to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you. {So it shows after the wise men were warned, soon after Joseph was warned by the angel too} because Herod is going to search for the Child to kill Him. later it was told Herod gave orders to kill every child two years old and under, in accordance with the time He had learn from the Magi.

{So of course by this description Herod was waiting quite a while for the wise men to return, we could look at it the other way the wise men had seen Jesus at the age of 2 years or under, But that doesn't sound right either, because it's only written in Matthew, and none of the other disciples, had really spoken about the birth of Jesus, only Luke which don't really fall in line with the other scripture in Matthew.
So it is highly implausible that the wise men would arrive in Jerusalem at night and immediately obtain an audience with Herod. The king that gathered all the chief priest and scribes of the people, so He could determine where the Messiah was to be born.
The experts told Herod where the Messiah needed to be born in Bethlehem, which was predicted in {Micah 5:2} So the wise men departed and made their approximately 6 mile journey to Bethlehem. So if they were to meet Herod during the day, and they left early in the night, this may have given themselves still time after midnight after Jesus was born in the manager. Not 2 years or less later.
As I have search the scriptures, and both scriptures don't line up with each other about the wise men it shows people are left with their own interpretations on this matter.

In that time flame the shepherds would look after their flocks of sheep every year around march April the sheep were ready to give birth to their lambs, when Jesus was born. Now the signs had appeared to both the wise men and the shepherds by night to witness the Messiah the king of the Jews is born
{Luke 2:8-20} An angel had appeared to the shepherds and led them to the manger at night.
Jesus is known to be the lamb of God {John 1:29}

It don't take rocket science to work this out. When a natural man is born his spirit is born into sin, when Jesus was born his Spirit is the Holy Spirit, and their is no sin to be found.
One who became flesh and One spirit can only add up to be One man. If God was a man, and Jesus a man, then it would add up to two men, but the bible clearly tells us God is Spirit, sending His Son Jesus in the flesh to live amongst men, and God anointed Jesus with the Holy Spirit {Acts 10:38} God's Spirit living inside Him. No-one has seen god at any time, because God is Spirit. And One Spirit and one flesh makes one man. And everything Jesus done God was with Him 100% until Jesus made His final leap and took on all the sins of the world, while the temple was torn in two from top to bottom and the Holy Spirit had departed, that's when Jesus felt God's presents had left Him. Their was no sin found in God, but man alone.
And this is why we believe in the Trinity the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are all One the same. You believe otherwise, you believe the Holy Spirit is some kind of God's active force. And you believe Jesus the Son of God was Michael the archangel. And as the bible reads it out clearly, God never made any of His angels Sons.
{Hebrews 1:5} "For to which of the angels did God ever say "You are My Son, today I have become your Father? Or again I will be His Father and He will be My Son?
{Hebrews 1:13} To which of the angels did God ever say Sit at My Right Hand until I make your enemies your footstool for your feet.
This is how it must sound in the New World Translation Bible, And the archangel had sent his active force to teach us all things. Question? How does an active force react on spending any time teaching, an active force would be like something say a sharp flash of light. That couldn't stay on to long.
Jesus sent The Holy Spirit to teach us all things, so this give us some kind of a good description of Him, He is patient, kind and gentle, knowledgeable a Spirit with Holy wisdom, ready to sit down and teach believers all over the world about the word of God' at the same time.
And this is why Jesus made it sound so important, One must become a born again Christian, before he can enter into the kingdom of God, the bible clearly states no-one can enter in any other way, so the Spirit of God can only teach those who have accepted Christ, as their Lord and savour.
This is the Church I belong too. The same Church Jesus had made with His disciples, we are a Church that spreads far across the nations, Church buildings with names are used as a glide line helping people to find them, Jesus lives in the hearts of all those who chose to believe, we don't need large Church names to build up our Spiritual knowledge with God, Jesus said when two or three are gathered in His name, He is in the mist of us.

It shows you are beating your head against the wall, and it clearly shows you are upsetting yourself over words, to be honest no-one is listening to you-nor I, 3 wise men who cares' it shows you are trying to cover up about the question asked in the first place, calling me a liar won't protect you from the word of God.
It shows this is upsetting you deeply, you are starting to be picky about everything I write to you, The word of God isn't about an argument, so you need to cool off, and stop getting yourself all worked up.
I would like to see you in action, I can imagine how high your temperature would be rating at this present moment, if I am writing to you about the word of God, you seem to go into a rage which is overly rated with all your demands, first we started of with Revelation 1:7-8, which you couldn't answer, and then you jump to 1:6, to try and prove a point which I have answered, and you found that question wasn't good enough for you, than without asking me, you have decide to lay down your demands and expecting me to answer everything you layout. I don't answer to hypocrites to well.
If it is upsetting you that much, that you feel you have to spend all night writing a page against me, then Its best for you to stop replying.
Who really cares how many wise men, the point was "Jesus received gifts given for a King on His birthday" while you make sure your children receive none.
If the word of God is getting you down, than you need to pull yourself up, and stop writing, listen none of us are really interesting to each other, your not interested hearing the truth about Christ, nor am I interested in hearing about your religious beliefs, because with my own personal beliefs I know it's a lie from the beginning, {Jesus said judge them by their fruit} Matter of fact you speak highly about your Jehovah god and less about Jesus.
I believe it is best for you to stop returning my pages, and let your children suffer because some bright spark called Himself a Freemason had changed the word of God for his own benefits, knowing through his car yard sales tips he will always draw people in like you to spend eternity with him in Hell.
Just admit your pride your not interested in Christ, nor the things He had written in word-with proving outstanding evidence the Watchtower had either removed or changed the scriptures. Nor are you interested to be saved by Him.
As blind as you are' you wouldn't see the truth if it is written in front of you, nor if Jesus was standing, you wouldn't recolonize Him either.
You have heard the good news and you have rejected it, misquoted it, mistaken it, and misprinted it, and still I say to you its never to late, but remember tomorrow never comes.

dolphinheart:
@ brocab


It is one who cannot point to a particular lie that will say another person lies about everything. That you cannot contradict just one explanation I've giving you forces you to claim all as lies.

You keep saying I dnt believe in Christ, yet I've been quoting jesus words to you over and over again.
You keep saying you believe in Christ , yet you can't or refuse to answer if jesus said he has a God or not. So now who is denying Christ between me and you. The one quoting several scriptures citing jesus statements or the one refusing to quote, recognise, or explain those scripture verses.?

I did or do not use the scriptures I quoted to better myself, I used it to explain who jesus said he is, who the disciples told us jesus is.

You keep claiming that the scriptures I quoted and the explanations I gave do not make sense, yet you vehemently,totally, completely refuse to explain or give us your own views to the scriptures I quoted. It shows that your claim is based on the desperate need to discredit my points even though there is nothing you can use to do so. You can't even quote those verses, talkless of explaining them.


Brocab, I'm not supposed to be pleasant to someone who uses lies to achieve his aims. I'm not supposed to be pleasant when exposing lies.
I'm pleasant when discussing issues in which lies are not involved, but when someone starts lying to surpport a point, and start making false statement to surpport a false doctrine, there is no need to be pleasant .

I'm not in a competition with you, I'm just showing you that your different, ever changing views are full of falsehood and lies. But if you consider countering your different accusations as competition, I leave you to such view.

If you think quoting the scriptures to you is overiding the word of God, then you dnt know what overiding is!


Lies! , that's why you can't add prove where I said that! .

Maybe you have forgotten the saying, scripture explains scripture.
I know you will prefer scripture contradicts scripture, cus that's exactly what you are trying to do. You try to explain one scripture, but when you are being asked to quote another scripture that talks about something similar and give explanation on it too, you will quickly change the topic and refuse to quote or talk about that scripture. Up till now, to talk about john 20:17 is hard for you.


All scripture that sound like what?


Again , I ask you like I asked you several times before, what truth is being said by jehovahs witnesses that I've denied on these thread. You keep saying I deny their truth,and yet you can't provide one instance in which I said so. What kind of person does that? A politician!

You are not a viewer brocab.
You need to first show where jehovahs witnesses had said the above! . When you make accusatory statements like this, add facts and not personal opinion to it.


Stop lying brocab!
False statements wunt help you.

You need to prove that they are added or removed.


Ever ready to quote other verses, but never ready or willing to explain rev 1:1,6. Never willing to tell us who is talking in rev 3:2,12. Do so brocab, and ill explain who is coming to you!

Your adding the word " back " to the scriptures where is not mentioned is deliberate,it is done to create confusion which I will clear if you can just answer to the request of giving us your explanation on rev 1:1,6 and tell us who is talking in rev 3:2, 12.



Brocab! Can you see how much of a liar you are. Can you see how much you twist the scriptures to say what it did not say? Let's examine your lies
1. First lie: "3 wise men" .
No where in the scriptures where the astrologers(or Maggi) said to be 3 in number.
You lie brocab when you said they where 3. I dnt know why your bible calls them wise men. But we sure know they where astrologers and we are aware of God view about astrology!
If you can't show us where the scripture said they where 3 in number, dnt lie again that they where 3 in number.

2. Second lie : they gave jesus gifts on his birthday :

This is another lie by you brocab, there is no indication that they gave jesus gifts on his birthday, whether his first, second, third or any other birthday. The reason for the gifts where mentioned, it is not because of birthday, it is because of their believe that jesus is king! And gave him gifts as a king, not because he is celebrating his birthday.

The record of the event shows that they could not have met jesus the day he was born.
There seeing the star in the east, their travelling to Jerusalem, their meeting with herod, herod inquiry as to the location of jesus, could not have happened in one day! That's why some translations say it happened after jesus was born. So brocab, they could not have come to meet jesus on his birthday, neither did they give jesus gifts on or because of his birthday. Stating that jesus was giving gifts on his birthday is false and a lie.

Did you notice that they met jesus in a house and not in a manger?

Let me add scripture to show you that you are a liar.

Luke 2:22(kjv)
And when the days of her
purification according to the
law of Moses were
accomplished, they brought
him to Jerusalem, to present
him to the Lord;

Do you understand what this place is saying ? It is saying that jesus was taken to the temple about 40 days after jesus was born!
Could these event occur after the astrologers came to meet jesus? noooooo! It could only have occured before the astrologers came to meet jesus. Why? Cus the scriptures mentioned the event that happened after they came to meet jesus.
Luke 2:13,14(kjv)
And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt.
Brocab , they did not wait 40 days after this to take the child to the temple before fleeing to egypt. This means that the astrologers came after jesus has been taken to the temple and then to a house. So stop lying cus you want to find a reason why you give your children gifts only on their birthdays.

Jehovahs witnesses enjoy the opportunity of giving gifts to their children and others everyday and anyday they choose in the year, they can give it as many times as they are capable of. They are not constrained to once in a year like you are.


Answer as many as you can, its better than answering non!


You are lying brocab, show me where you quoted rev 1: 1,6 and added your understanding of those verses .
Like I said earlier , ill explain those scriptures once you have done as requested.


Test me and see, just quote and explain rev 1:1,6 and tell who is talking in rev 3:2,12, and then see if I wunt respond to them .


Its plain to see that you wunt tell the church you associate with. You claim to be born again, but you dnt know the name of your church. You surpport technology but you can't release the official website of your church. Now you have resorted to asking silly questions that even non christians are ashamed to ask, so that you can find another way in not telling people the name of the organization you associate with. Brocab, jesus is not a Christian , so stop asking silly questions to create a diversion.



Trying to divert from the issues under discussion again brocab!?
The last time we discussed this issue, you change it after seeing my explanations, you refused to continue the discussion after I asked you why the king james version removed the name of God in most places where it occured in the scriptures.
If you want to discuss again about these, then continue from where we stopped on the issue and answer the question on why the kjv removed the name of God in hundreds of places where it occured in the scriptures.
This removal has affected your knowledge on who the true God is:

Note :
you have refused to:

(1)Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work.

(2) bring out one thing that I wrote that the organization denied!
Note: the organization, and not a third party, or outsider must deny it. It must be from official sources.
Your failure to do so will comfirm to all that you are a liar, someone who use lies to respond to the truth being shown to him.

(3)Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!.
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.

(4) Tell me brocad, which organization today does these(the preaching work) best, the way Jesus proscribed and the disciples practised. I know you know it, but hatred will now allow you mention them.

(5)You are a systemic liar, the God I worship was never a human and I never said or implied so!.

You cannot attempt to answer the questions :
When you say he is spirit, are you saying God is the spirit in Jesus when he was here on earth?
Pls say yes and ill show you how much of your doctrines is full of falsehood.
Saying no will show that your doctrine lacks prove.(I believe you wunt answer anyway)
Examine this questions brocab 1. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth?
2. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit?
4. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am"
5. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit.
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.

You cannot answer if Jesus is the same person as the father.

You cannot respond ;
Liar, liar, liar! Show where I said so. Show where I used the words " Jesus isn't a God".

You can't do this :
Simply quote and explain rev 1:1-6 from any translation of your choice
Explain verses 1 and 6....
Tell use who is talking in rev 3:2,12.....[/b]


brocab , readers will note(again) that you have NOT quoted and explained ANY of the following scriptures :

1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9:11
12. john 14:6
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7
16. ps 28:18

And a host of others ill add later.

Brocab , examine these scripture
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.

Jesus is Gods only begotten son, jesus is not God almighty !

Listen to you' you will lie about everything just to prove you are a true believer of the Jehovah Witnesses and not a believer of Christ, you use scriptures trying to better yourself, and yet none of them are making any sense to your point making.
Over time I have read your pages, and nothing you have to say is pleasant, between your words you act like you are in some kind of a competition, you have been trying to over ride the word of God, at your arguing point, you have denied Christ 100 fold over, even your bible holds the evidence, how much you all deny Christ.
Over time you have called the bible a misprint, or a mistake-and yet your bible hold these very same written scriptures, but still" you are trying to avoid these scriptures, using other scriptures that sounds like, Which I can understand, because your bible had been put through the mill, and the Watchtower had removed all scriptures that sound.
While you are trying to push those scriptures aside, hoping no-one will notice-you are making a mockery out of the JW's.
You are calling them liars.
How do you expect the Jehovah witnesses to reach out, if they have people like you, who say you are a JW and deny's their truth?
We viewers need to hear why the JW's believe Our Father God had taken Jesus authority away from Him {Revelation 1:7-8} New World Translation Bible declares our Father God had given all the authority to Jehovah God?
If you expect people to believe in your organization, you need to come up with the truth, stop removing or adding scriptures at your expense.
{Revelation 1:3} "Bless is the one who reads out loud the words of this prophesy, and blessed are those who hear it, and take it to heart what is written in it.
{Revelation 22:18-19} I testify to everyone who hears the words of this prophesy of this book. If anyone adds to them. God will add to them the plagues which are written in this book, and If anyone takes away from this book of this prophesy God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the Holy city. Which are written in the book, He who testifies of these things says "Yes I am coming quickly "Amen come Lord Jesus.
Again it say's clearly who's coming back, and it's not Jehovah God.
What are you telling me, you have never read the scriptures, when Jesus had received Gifts from 3 wise men on His birthday, .
Is this the very reason why your children don't receive gifts, nor have special times with their love ones.
KJ and the NWT both bibles {Matthew 2:11} "And after entering the house they saw the child with Mary His Mother, and they fell down and worshipped Him, then after opening their treasure chess, they presented to Him gifts.{Fit for a king' gifts of gold, frankincense,and myrrh.
Did you know Jesus was just a child receiving gifts, and your children receive none.
You expect me to answer all these scriptures for you, I have answered {Revelation 1:3-4-6} and you still refuse to answer and return the scriptures I have given you? The problem is you haven't the slightest idea how to respond to them, which is sad, because we could have a good understanding in bible literature.
Are you still going on about which Church I am attending, you name the Church Jesus attended too? and I will tell you which Church I attend too?
I can also add to this page all the scriptures the Watchtower had removed from your bible, or should I say misplace them? {Matthew 17:21, Matthew 18:11, 23:14. Mark 7:16, 9:44, 9:46, 11:26, 15:28, all completely removed 16:9-20, you seperated or 12 verses of Mark. Luke 1:28, 17:36, 23:17, all completely removed, John 5:4, 7:53, 8:11. Acts 8:37, 15:34, 24:6-8, 28:29. Romans 16:24} and these are just some scriptures the Watchtower had removed. It shows the Jehovah Witnesses are hiding the truth and they don't want the truth to be revealed.
Who's lying now Mr know it all.

dolphinheart:
@ brocab

The time taken to write my post is not an issue here, dnt use it to change the topic.
I've exposed your lies and you could not respond to it.
I've used the scriptures to explain things to you, and you could not quote those scriptures, talkless of giving your contrary explanations of those.
And your lies are still standing high, you have denied the truth about your church, and your children, are not allowed to mix with others not belonging to the church.
I've responded, giving my own view on nearly all of the scriptures you quoted, supporting my understanding with other scriture verses. You on the other hand , have been running away from scriptures you are asked to explain.
I've giving a response to all the issues you've raised, using the scriptures as a guide, but once I give you an explanation, you will run away from the topic and bring another issue up.
The only response you could give to my explanation is that I should write a book. Those are words that could only be spoken by a politician.


Pls dnt give me a name to a church, I did not ask for name of churches. Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work.


For your mind!

Pls just bring out one thing that I wrote that the organization denied!
Note: the organization, and not a third party, or outsider must deny it. It must be from official sources.

Your failure to do so will comfirm to all that you are a liar, someone who use lies to respond to the truth being shown to him.


Everyone!?
Let's do a quick test of your knowledge about jesus .
Tell us, do you know that jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?

If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!.
Expecially. The one spoken by jesus himself.

I thank God that you are not the one who gives or determines ones salvation!


It was you that went wild. A simple statement " the name of the church I associate with is so so and so" would have solved the question long time ago. Even if you attend More than one organization, telling us just one of them which you associate with is ok.
Penticostal churches have different denomination, organizations, beliefs, doctrines, authority. It is because they are different from each other, that's why they have different organizations and structures.

If you dnt associate with any, then you are not penticostal.

If you associate with some and accept their beliefs, then tell us their name(s).
If you associate with all cus they claim they are penticostal, then you are a drifter in whom the truth has no root, because it is evident not all penticostal churches agree with each others beliefs, and not all follow jesus teachings.


Again, we are not Talking about buildings, we are talking about organizations made up of a group of people. Dnt try to divert the issue using buildings.
Are you now changing your stance to say you dnt go to any meetings organized by a religious organization that has a name. Brocab, you keep on twisting and twisting, all because you dnt want to tell the name of the organization you associate with.


Yes its open , but its order, its organization is not. Neither is its, doctrines open for everyone to add its own to.
You differentiate this churches by their names and doctrines.

For example, we have seen churches that accept gay marriage, and we have seen churches that say gay marriage is a sin, since both churches are open to all, and they both claim to be Christian, brocab , do you attend both?



Good to note that your church is part of the world, that's why things of the world are left unchecked there.
Jesus has told us to be no part of the world!
Despite being no part of the world, jesus has told us to go out(from ur explanation above, I can bet you dnt know what "go out" means) into the world.
If your church is part of that world, then you are not going out.

Jesus did not only tell, he sets examples on how it is to be done. When he sent the disciples out, he did not tell them to travel from church to church, but to peoples home, seeking out meek hearted ones. The disciples did not only travel from church to church, but they preached in the market places, on streets and homes of people. Tell me brocad, which organization today does these best, the way jesus proscribed and the disciples practised. I know you know it, but hatred will now allow you mention them.

[Quote]All Thur through the years I have found some pretty interesting's findings, about other religions. I found there are many names given to God, but there is one name, that believers know' where they can be saved, and it is mentioned in {Acts 4:12} among many other places, "And their is no salvation in no-one else, for their is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.
There are many names giving to God , but God himself told us his name, a name that the translation you believe in had tried to erase in most places where it occured. Even though people have different versions of that name,depending on language, they still refer to the same God.

Its good you mentioned acts 4: 12, ill quote it and other verses in acts chapter 4 to prove to you that your doctrine is false. And I can bet that you wunt reply on those verses.

I'm going to number the verses to seperate it from the other verses ill use to explain the verse numbered.

(1)acts chapter 4verse 10
Peter filled with holy spirit said this :
Acts 4:10(kjv)
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Brocab, did you notice peters words here? He made us understood that jesus died and God raised him up from the dead! The God peter mentioned here was not the one who died. Hence the God that peter was talking about was not jesus.
Do I have other scritures to surpport this explanation? Yes!

Acts 2:36(kjv)
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Three Thousand Believe
(God,{first person} made jesus {second person} to be the Christ)

Acts 2:24(kjv)
Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be
holden of it.
Acts 5:30 (kjv)
The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
( the person peter called God here is not the same person as the one who was raised up. Peter knew who God almighty is, and he is not jesus)

(2) acts chapter 4 verse 11 and 12
(Kjv)
This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Peter said there is no other name "given Among men". This means that someone gave that name to others, that they might be saved through that name.
Now who gave the name and who was giving(bears) that name?
Does having that name means the bearer is almighty God?
who is superior , the person who gave the name or the bearer of the name?
The scriptures help us to answer these questions .

Matt 1:21(kjv)
And she shall bring forth a
son, and thou shalt call his
name JESUS: for he shall
save his people from their
sins.
( the person through whom mankind will be saved is called jesus)

Acts 10:38,40,43(kjv)
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
( again, we were told that God anointed jesus,not that God is jesus or jesus is almighty God. We are also that because of these anointing , because jesus was ordained, we can receive forgiveness of sin if we believe in him.)

Phil 2:9:11 (kjv)
[b]Wherefore God also
hath highly exalted him, and
given him a name which is
above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue
should confess that Jesus
Christ is Lord, to the glory of
God the Father
( the person exalted is not the same person as the one exalting, God exalted jesus, and in verse 13 we know that that God is the father)

You can read john 14:6 and 1ti 2:5,6.

Look at how acts chapter 4 further described jesus in relation to the God they where praying to

Acts 4 : 26,27, 30(niv)
The kings of the earth
rise up and the rulers band
together against the Lord
and against his anointed one.
Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.
Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

This scriptures above, prove your doctrine that jesus is almighty God to be false. You cannot explain or quote the scriptures above.

"Even thus His name is pronounced {Yah shoe Ya} which is from the Old Testament, Hebrew name Joshua" as we know it, as Jesus, and whoever believes in Jesus Christ can be saved.

Good , brocad , do you believe in jesus when he said he has a God?

{Romans 10:9-13} Jesus's name means "like Joshua's "God Saves or "God is salvation" or simply "salvation" which is essentially the same thing.
Good, and here are some other scriptures(below) to help you have a better understanding on why jesus bears that name.

1 john 4:14(kjv)
And we have seen and do
testify that the Father sent the
Son to be the Saviour of the
world.
Acts 5: 31(kjv)
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16(kjv)
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.

Brocab, God did not sent himself, he sent someone whose name is jesus to be our savior . We have no other name in which we can be saved , cus jesus has said no one can come to the father, except through him!

You can read
Heb 5:7 , ps 28:18

Here's something else for you, the Greek term that is sometimes translated "Church" refers to a group of worshippers, Not to a building they meet in.
When the apostle Paul wrote to the Christians in Rome, he sent greeting to a couple named Aquila and Priscilla, and added : greet the Church that meets in their home {Romans 16:5}
Meaning you have your head up your backside so deep, that you are finding it so hard to give it some air. Mr know it all...
So which group, out of the many different groups that claim to be christians do you associate with!


Note:
You have not risen up to the challenge.
"There is no mention of Jesus receiving gifts on his birthday, and I challenge you to refute my statement!

2. You are a systemic liar, the God I worship was never a human and I never said or implied so!.

You cannot attempt to answer the questions :
When you say he is spirit, are you saying God is the spirit in Jesus when he was here on earth?
Pls say yes and ill show you how much of your doctrines is full of falsehood.
Saying no will show that your doctrine lacks prove.(I believe you wunt answer anyway)
Examine this questions brocab 1. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth?
2. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit?
4. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am"
5. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit.
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.

You cannot answer if Jesus is the same person as the father.

You cannot respond ;
Liar, liar, liar! Show where I said so. Show where I used the words " Jesus isn't a God".

You can't do this :
Simply quote and explain rev 1:1-6 from any translation of your choice
Explain verses 1 and 6....
Tell use who is talking in rev 3:2,12.....

brocab , readers will not that you have not quoted and explained any of the following scriptures :

1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
And a host of others ill add later.

It must of taken you all day to write this page, and it took you half the day to write your last page, why don't you write a book and we will call the book {Bullshit} written by Mr know it all.
I can give you a name to a Church "Watchmen" Do you know it?
Listen no-one is listening to you, everything you write you have denied the truth about your organization.
Everyone who is not involved in the JW's Church knows the truth about Christ, and everyone who has joined your organization will not find salvation.
I have already informed you I am a pentecostal and you have ran wild with that idea, Jesus never had a Church made out of brick and mortar, His Church is His people. And I receive my teachings, from the word of God. Most of us call it the bible.

Pentecostal churches are open for all men and women, it don't matter what religion they are from, we are all made in that same image of God, Churches are like different countries, if one enters, we learn different cultures.
Jesus said go out unto all the world and preach the gospel, and travelling from one Church to another is part of that world.

All Thur through the years I have found some pretty interesting's findings, about other religions. I found there are many names given to God, but there is one name, that believers know' where they can be saved, and it is mentioned in {Acts 4:12} among many other places, "And their is no salvation in no-one else, for their is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

"Even thus His name is pronounced {Yah shoe Ya} which is from the Old Testament, Hebrew name Joshua" as we know it, as Jesus, and whoever believes in Jesus Christ can be saved {Romans 10:9-13} Jesus's name means "like Joshua's "God Saves or "God is salvation" or simply "salvation" which is essentially the same thing.
Here's something else for you, the Greek term that is sometimes translated "Church" refers to a group of worshippers, Not to a building they meet in.
When the apostle Paul wrote to the Christians in Rome, he sent greeting to a couple named Aquila and Priscilla, and added : greet the Church that meets in their home {Romans 16:5}
Meaning you have your head up your backside so deep, that you are finding it so hard to give it some air. Mr know it all...

dolphinheart:
@ brocab

I did not ask for what your church is, I did not ask for location of your church . I simply asked you to tell us the name of your church. In what name is your church registered. Every church has a name to distinguish and seperate its organization from the others. You are afraid to tell us the name of your church, the reason for such fear is not far fetched.


Have I ever said anything about your church? Why do you conclude that I'm trying to find fault. On the contrary, it is you who had been trying to find fault from page one of these thread. When your attempt had been exposed as false, you jump to another attempt.


Brocad, why do you lie, you had earlier claimed you are pentecostal, a name formulated by humans to seperate their denomination from others, now you say your church is not part of any denomination organization. Your church has a name, has a physical organization here on earth, but your fear of naming it has made you to lie.

There are many seperate organizations named "church of God", which one of them do you associate with!.
(I believe you will not answer these question and will continue to attempt to shift it, but I will keep on asking)


So you are a drifter, one who has not found a church that he believes has the truth, that its doctrines go along with the scriptures.

I never mentioned church buildings, so dnt divert. We are talking about organizations, and they are not represented or determined by their buildings. Brocab, in your attempt not to tell us the church you associate with , you are trying to tell us you have no organization you are part of, you move from organization to organization. I found this to be another lie.
Attending a congregation of jehovahs withnesses does not mean you are part of that organization.

This brings up an issue you tried to use before the issue of the use of technology. You say we should use technology more than going from house to house to preach. Pls brocab, can you direct me to the official website of your church or one of your numerous churches? Jehovahs witnesses use www.jw.org , pls tell us urs.


You twist the truth and add subtle lies into it. Such views only exist in your mind.
Its true that all organizations have different rules and beliefs. One of the most important guiding factors is your beliefs, which determines how you live your life. An example, If one organization claims that you should bow down and pray to mary, and another says its a sin to do so, you must pray to jesus, is it ok for one to be attending both organizations? Even though both claimed to be christians?

If an organization support and promoted warfare, and another organization says its a sin to fight war , will you be attending both organizations? Even though both claim be christians ?
Someone that does that will be someone like you brocab, someone without roots or set of beliefs, someone who accepts any organization even though its beliefs are different from the previous organization. You go from church to church cus those churches told you they where christians, you fellowship with all of them despite the fact that they have contrary beliefs.
A true Christian, while finding the truth, will stay there and will not sit on the wall.

If you attend two meetings in which their teachings are contrary, despite both claiming to be christians, one should know that their is something wrong somewhere, one should examine the scriptures and find out which is the truth, after that one should leave the false one and stick to the truth.

So its either one of three things, 1. You are a jehovahs witness 2. You are a member of other churches or 3. You are undecided, a drifter.
You can only be one of the three. We are getting a clear picture of which one you are!


Your sadness is in your mind. In reality, children of jehovahs witnesses do play with other children of their age group, in school and at home. Your mind is comforting false things that is different when compared to reality . Your wish that children of jehovahs witnesses are caged, but their are not, their parents try to follow scriptural directives that they should guide, protect and train their children in this world controlled by Satan. So they protect their children from things which might seem to be just fun in your mind, but the fun is just to coate the dangers underneate.
Contrary to your beliefs , the parents and children have more fun as a family unit all year round, they are not giving a special date to have fun.


Your imagination is running wild.


I can see you are an advocate of bullying, guess you are a bully too. If you have forced a schoolmate to accept and do things he/she does not want to do, then you are a bully!
Your children should not naturally associate with friends who will bully them, even it they are in the same class, not all children come from good homes.
So brocab, bullying is a very bad thing, so dnt teach your children to accept what bullies say cus you want them to be happy and not feel lonely, teach your children how to have good friends!


Yes, it will be sad, but the joy of trying to save that child (blood transfusion does not assure your survival, in fact bloodless operations are now getting better)cannot be compared to the immense joy one would get when he reunites with that child in a new perfect society.
You are thinking of the present, jehovahs witnesses are thinking of the future life God promised his faithful servants. Their faith is strong in the ressurection hope, and they believe jesus when he said ," whoever loses his life for my sake, will have it back" .
You fear death, cus you are enjoying satans system of things!


Why did you pause, why not complete the lie. Bet you where trying to lie again that jesus received gifts on his birthday!.
Children of jehovahs witnesses receive gifts all year round and do not need a day to do so. They have fun all year round, but do not allow it affect the time they have for spiritual matters.

There is no mention of jesus receiving gifts on his birthday, and I challenge you to refute my statement!


Only in your mind. Your claims exist only in your thoughts.


1. You have failed to even quote and explain even one of the numerous scripture verses I've quoted to you. I've quoted and explained them, I've quoted and explained some of the scriptures that even you quoted, and you are here to say I'm confused . Brocab, its beyond doubt and its glaring to all that you can't explain the scriptures I quoted to you!.
I post those scriptures at the end of the post and the whole world will see again that you wunt quote them, talkless of explaining them. If you reply at all, it would be an excuse on why you can't explain them.

2. You are a systemic liar, the God I worship was never a human and I never said or implied so!.

3. Your words are exposing your lies, if you believe that jesus said " no one has seen God at any time", then why do you claim jesus is almighty God or jesus is jehovah. Jesus was seen and heard by countless of people, yet you claim he is almighty God. And this same jesus had told you that no one has seen God at anytime. Your false doctrine is contradicting the scriptures.


Brocad when you try to make up something or explain something, stop cutting it in half, explain fully your doctrine so that people will understand you. Though in reality , I know you can't explain it fully cus doing so will show the holes in your doctrine.

When you say he is spirit, are you saying God is the spirit in jesus when he was here on earth?
Pls say yes and ill show you how much of your doctrines is full of falsehood.
Saying no will show that your doctrine lacks prove.(I believe you wunt answer anyway)
Examine this questions brocab 1. If you say one body, one spirit, was jesus a spirit before he came to earth?
2. When jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit?
4. What does jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am"
5. Why does jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit.
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.

I've extensively explained john 10:30 to you, I did so and asked you if jesus and the father are the same person. You saw that you could not answer the question, you decided to change the topic, I asked you again but you did not answer. If you want to still talk about john 10:30, ill post that explanation to you again, but you must promise that this time around you will reply on the issue and answer on the question if jesus is the same person as the father.


Yes it does, hope you also read the part where it is said there are many Gods, and the part where jesus has a God heb 1:9


Liar, liar, liar! Show where I said so. Show where I used the words " jesus isn't a God".


Simply quote and explain rev 1:1-6 from any translation of your choice and you wunt be able to say the above words.
Explain verses 1 and 6 and people will see that you spill falsehood.
Tell use who is talking in rev 3:2,12 and you doctrine will come to tartars.

I pray the way jesus taught us to pray. He told us to pray to the father. He did not only tell us how, he led by example by praying to the father. So following jesus example, I pray to the FATHER IN HEAVEN!
Now brocab, tell us how you pray!


Give scriptural quote to support your theory pls.


Support the "seed part with scriptural prove pls. Cus last time I read that verse it says, I and the father are one" not "i and the father are one seed.
Stop adding words to the scriptures!

Note: brocab , readers will not that you have not quoted and explained any of the following scriptures

1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3
And a host of others ill add later.

I have already explain to you what is my church and still you haven't a clue which direction to take? Trying to find fault in ones Church shows how Christian you really are?
My Church is called the Church of God. Mock His Church, because His Church isn't part any denomination organization, we are openly free to accept Jesus where we stand.
A Church building is a place to meet other Christians, but if we chose not to be part of one organization, it don't mean we are rebelling against God, it means we are free to fellowship in all. Jesus said we are the Church built by God.
I can go to any Church building if I please, I have even gone into yours, and I found what I was looking for.

But in your Church it sucks, a completely different organization, rules are no-one is allowed to go from one Church to another meeting new Christians outside your square, nor are you allowed to celebrate any holiday's such as birthday's, nor associate with friends and family, outside the Church.
It must be sad to see, your children not playing with other children at school.
It must be sad to see, watching your child looking through a glass window watching other children play.
It must be sad to see, your child crying because of loneliness before she/he go's to sleep.
It must be sad to see, your child being bullied at school.
It must be sad to see, your child dying because she/he needed blood from you.
It must be sad to see, your child not receiving gifts on their birthday, when Jesus received gifts on He's..


This is making a complete mockery of the Jehovah Witnesses, organization, and every time you write you are putting yourself deeper into a disagreement that not even you can get yourself out off.
Your own understanding of the bible confuses you, you are trying to prove a point that God is not a Spirit but a man-When it says clearly No-one has seen God at any time.
Everything I have given you in reason, it just blows over your head-Jesus said in {John 10:30} I and the Father are one. This scripture is pretty clear, since no-one has seen God at any time, then it must prove He is Spirit, and Jesus came to earth with one Body, not two, and lived amongst men, One Body One Spirit, makes up One person right?

When I read through your New World Translation JW bible, repeatedly it calls Jesus a God. And yet you keep on repeating yourself He isn't a God {Revelation 1:7-8} spells it out clearly who the Almighty is' in both the NWT and the KJ Bibles.

You need to look at your own life, how do you pray and who are you praying too?
If God is another person, then you are praying to a person, but if God is a Spirit then you are praying in the Spirit. Jesus spoke to God that same way in prayer He spoke in the Spirit {John 4:24} God is Spirit and His worshippers must worship in Spirit and in truth.
And this is how Jesus communicated in prayer to God. He worshipped in prayer and in truth
The same as I pray to God, I call Him Father God-I can't see Him, but because of my own personal beliefs I recolonize Him as my Father in heaven.
Worldly thinking will always see two people in the flesh-I suppose its hard for you to even understand you own life, How did you and your Father become one seed?
In the flesh you are two people having one seed, which makes you one with your father.
Jesus is One seed with His Father in Spirit and in truth, when He say's I and the Father are one, believe it.

dolphinheart:
@ brocab.

Everyone on now getting a clear picture of who you really are. When you are exposed, you will quickly change the topic and act like if the exposure did not exist.

John 17: 1-3 has exposed you, jesus has told you who the true God is, but your nature will not allow you to accept the truth.
Rev 1:1,6 has exposed your lie about jesus and jehovah being the same person. You will not quote those verses cus you know it will expose your false doctrine.

Your refusal to name your church has exposed you. You can't name it cus you know it will expose the dirty things you are trying to hide.

Now let's look at the new shifts you have brought up while refusing to answer the previous issues that had exposed your lies.


You just lied again, and you just used your second lie to expose your first lie.

Jesus, the judaic culture never believed jesus was God. You used the word " equal " here, which denotes a comparison to two things or persons. This you statement shows that your earlier statement that jesus is the same person as jehovah is FALSE!, a lie created by you and now being exposed by another lie of yours.

(1)Is jesus the living God? NO!
Peter in matt 16: 15 and 16 correctly said who jesus is!
Matt 16:15,16(kjv)
15 He said unto them, But
whom say you that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered,
You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Jesus is the only begotten son of the living God!, he is not God himself!

(2) did jesus tell us who the living God is? Yes!

We find that in john 17:1-3 (which I've quoted severally) and in Jesus statement to mary .
John 20:17(kjv)
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; AND TO MY GOD, AND YOUR GOD!.
Jesus has told you who the living God is, he has told you who the true God is, you say you follow jesus , but you do not believe jesus words!

(3) is jesus equal to the loving God? No!
Jesus himself said " [b]the father is greater than I am". He told us that all how power and authority comes from the father. He specifically explained that he was giving power and authority. The scriptures even went on to tell us that when jesus went back to heaven, he continued being in subjection to the most high God. The scriptures, jesus himself and the disciples have on numerous occasion said jesus has a God!. Yet you prefer not to follow the scriptures, but to formulate your false doctrine from judaic beliefs, from beliefs which jesus had condemned when they wrongly ascribed that he claimed to be equal to God. You are trying to explain jesus from the views if those who dnt even believe in the messiah, and reject the simple, easy to understand words of those who belief in the messiah and recorded it down in the scriptures.


You twist the scriptures brocab, and make it look as if its contradicting itself. The scriptures says only God is to be worshipped, it says only jehovah is to be worshipped. Jesus reterated that command, yet you claim that two persons are now worshipped in heaven.
Well, I dnt blame you, your false doctrine comes from the wrong use of the greek text sometimes translated to "worship".

[b]Strong's Concordance
proskuneó: to do reverence
to
Original Word: προσκυνέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: proskuneó
Phonetic Spelling: (pros-koo-
neh'-o)
Short Definition: I worship
Definition: I go down on my
knees to, do obeisance to, worship.
HELPS Word-studies
4352 proskynéō (from 4314 /
prós, "towards" and kyneo, "to
kiss" – properly, to kiss the
ground when prostrating
before a superior; to worship, ready "to fall down/prostrate oneself to adore on one's knees" (DNTT); to "do obeisance" (BAGD).
"The basic meaning of 4352
(proskynéō), in the opinion of
most scholars, is to
kiss. . . . On Egyptian reliefs
worshipers are represented
with outstretched hand
throwing a kiss to (pros-) the
deity" (DNTT, 2, 875,876).
4352 (proskyneō) has been
(metaphorically) described as
"the kissing-ground" between
believers (the Bride) and
Christ (the heavenly
Bridegroom). While this is true,
4352 (proskynéō) suggests
the willingness to make all
necessary physical gestures
of obeisance.][/b]
http://biblehub.com/greek/4352.htm

Since we now know that the greek word can mean
1. To bow down
2. To do obeisance
3. To worship
4. To go on one knees
Then which one of these should be applied in heb1:6

For the fact that jesus himself said it is only God which he had Identified as the father that should be worshipped, that the father ALONE should be worshipped, and for the fact that jehovah himself has said that he ALONE should be worshipped, a true worshipper of God should have known that the greek word that you translated to "worship" should have been translated as obeisance, bow down, e.t.c.
But for the lie to take root, they prefer to translate it as "worship". This has now contradicted jehovahs direct instruction that he alone should be worshipped.

Let's look at hebrew chapter 1 again and take out more points to expose your false doctrines
Heb 1 :1-9(kjv)
[b]1 God, who at many times and in various manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by
the prophets,
2 Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,
whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of
his glory, and the express
image of his person, and
upholding all things by the
word of his power, when he
had by himself purged our
sins, sat down on the right
hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels
said he at any time, You are
my Son, this day have I
begotten you? And again, I will
be to him a Father, and he
shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he brings
the firstbegotten into the world, he says, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he says,
Who makes his angels spirits,
and his ministers a flame of
fire.
8 But unto the Son he says,
Your throne, O God, is forever
and ever: a scepter of
righteousness is the scepter of
your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.[/b]


Brocab, can you see the underlined? Can you read it? Can you explain what those verses are saying?
You can, but you will not cus it does not go along with your doctrines.

1. Verse 2 tells us : God has appointed jesus as heir to all things
" appointed heir ”: An heir is not on the same level as the one appointing the person as an heir. This shows that your doctrine that jesus is equal to the father as false. It also make false the doctrine that jesus and jehovah are the same person.
As an heir Jesus gets an inheritance. What is that inheritance? “ by inheritance
obtained a more excellent
name than they .”

2.In verse 3 you find that jesus is an express image. An image is not the real thing. Jesus reflected the qualities of his father was not equal to his father.
In verse 3 you can see that jesus “sat down on the right hand ”. He was granted that privilege to sit at Gods right hand because of his death “ when he had by himself purged our sins ,”.

The most clearly stated part that you have refused to see is that in that same verse 3, the position of the person that jesus sat at his right side is mentioned. That person is called " THE MAJESTY ON HIGH or rather THE MOST HIGH."
Someone commanded jesus to sit at his right side, that person is the host high, in verse 9 that person calls himself the God of jesus, and yet you claim that that person and jesus are equal? Brocab, those verses has exposed your lies.

From verse 1 to 9, the position of jesus is glaring, he has a God!, even when he is in heaven, he was always called the son of God! or only begotten son of God!, he has peers or fellows! as verse 9 tells us. Yet your false doctrine has made him equal to God.

You claim to have a church( even though you have refused to mention its name), but your church does not accept the scriptures when it said that the "head of Christ is God! , your church has twisted it to "jesus is equal to God".
1 cor 11:3(kjv)
But I would have you know,
that the head of every man is
Christ; and the head of the
woman is the man; and the
head of Christ is God.
Your church has removed the head of Christ and put jesus in his place!


Your understand has been proven wrong, you have deliberately miss used the word worship to further your false doctrines. The father, jesus and the disciples has specifically told you, Worship only the father" brocab. You have contradicted the scriptures so that your false doctrine can be sorpurted. Jesus is not the father!

Thomas exclamation cannot be used to mean that jesus is God. For previously , jesus has sent mary to them to tell them who their God is. They themselves have known that jesus is " the son of the living God" and not the living God. They continued to have this understanding, even recording it down in several places in the scritures long after jesus has ascended to meet his God.
So brocab, if I say "oh my God "when something extra ordinary had been made clear to me, it does not mean that the person who made it clear is my God.
Believing such will contradict what jesus said in john 20:17(a verse that you can't explain, but prefer to contradict it .)


Haaa! , all these epistle so that you will not tell us the name. Of the church you associate with!?

Now I believe you are a true politician, always ready to shift left or right if one can't give a simple answer, cus giving that answer will open a can of worms. Kontinue!

While all or most churches claim what you wrote above, we are very sure not all follow it. Simply telling us the registered name of your church has turned into a documentary!

Becoming a JW will be like shaking hands with the devil.

And the hole world can see, you have refuse to tell us why in Revelation 1:7-8 New World Translation Jehovah Witnesses bible "say's everyone will see the Almighty coming in the clouds, Jehovah God is the Alpha and the Omega the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
Revelation 1:1-8 the KJ Version Says it clearly who is coming back, the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, which is, and which was and which is to come the Almighty. {This describes Jesus clearly He was dead, and now alive forevermore}

You haven't explained to us viewers, why did the New World Translation JW's bible give Jehovah God that same authority His Father God gave to Jesus? When in scripture God the Father had given Jesus all His authority and Jesus is coming back. But if you believe Jehovah God is coming back, then it's true Jesus and God are One the same person.
This must be evidence to show us viewers that Jehovah God isn't the same God as the Father we all know in heaven, because God gave Jesus all His authority to come back, As it's written in the NWT bible in Revelation 1:7-8 "Jehovah God had decided to come back himself.

And yet in Revelation 1:1-6 says it clearly by John's testimony of all things what he had seen, John made it clear that God gave him the revelation of Jesus Christ, the one who is coming back.

Don't forget no-one has seen God at any time. So if no-one had seen God at any time, then Jehovah God isn't the one coming back, as your bible had written it, He will.

dolphinheart:
@ brocab


A nice attempt at not telling the church you associate with, even if its pentecostal.

Brocab, penticostal is a word derived by humans to differentiate christianity, to divide christianity into sects. As far as I'm concerned, and I believe that as far as everybody reading this thread is concerned, claiming to be a penticostal does not mean you have named the church you associate with. Its confirmed that there are thousands of pentecostal churches, each with its own name, rituals, laws, procedures, customs and organization. Each church is different from the other in its name, customs, practices, rituals, procedures and organization.
It is known that not all pentecostal churches follow scriptural procedures, even some pentecostal churches count the practices of other penticostal church as sin.

So pls pls pls brocab, tell us the name of the pentecostal church you associate with. Your refusal to do so will be seen as "EVIDENCE 1", to show you are afraid to tell us the church you associate with, while desperately trying to find fault with others.


You are a liar brocab, your attempt to link two different organizations will not work. Jehovahs withnesses have just one organization, they have several branches and several congregations, but they dnt take special names and dnt organize differently from the other congregations. They are all under one body.
If I leave nigeria today and go to Siberia, if there is a congregation there, they will preach, teach and welcome you the same way a congregation in timbaktu would.!
Linking two different organizations and calling them one so as to find fault and claim confussion is a sad sad move brocab. These serves as EVIDENCE 2, to show you that you lie in your attempt to find fault.

Tell us your church!



Another attempt to lie against the witnesses, brocab, have you ever seen a jehovahs witness doing prosperity preaching? Have you ever seen a jehovahs witness congregation collecting tithes or making exorbitant demands? Have you ever seen a congregation not disclosing the amount its members contributed and what they are going to do with the money. You are a liar brocab, you have run out of accusations and now resort to lying about witnesses.

Jehovahs witnesses know who jehovah is. He is
1.the supreme being
2. The creature of heaven and earth
3. The one sitted on the throne 4. The most high God.
5. Our father and creator.
6 the father and God of jesus Christ
7. The only true God.
8. The one who jesus has provided a way to
9. The one who jesus said we should pray to.
10. The one who provided a savior for humankind, who gave jesus the revelation as recorded in rev 1:1.


You can claim to be a pentecostal Christian as much as you want. But we can't see it as you refuse to name your church, we can't know if its even pentecostal sef. There fore your claims are baseless!

You call jesus Christ the only true God, But your true God does not go along with who the scriptures call the true God. In fact! It goes contrary to the statement made by the one you call the only true God.

If you really believe in jesus Christ, you will listen to his words and follow his sayings. He never called himself the only true God, but he specifically, without issues or problem told you who the only true God is!
In case you have not read it, ill quote it for you here. You might still not read it, but others will.

John 17: 1-5( king james version)
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father,[/u the hour is come; glorify [u]thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
As thou hast given him
power over all flesh, that he
should give eternal life to as
many as thou hast given him.

AND THIS IS LIFE ETERNAL, THAT THEY MIGHT KNOW THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST, WHOM THOU HAS SENT.

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Brocab, which these verses alone, jesus Christ have shown you that
1. the father is the only true God
2. The father is the one who gave him power.
3. That you brocab, can only gain eternal life if you know the father, the only true god and the one he sent , jesus Christ.

The above are not my words, I quoted it from the scriptures , and used a version you believe in. If you say jesus is the only true God again, then you lie against the scriptures you hold in your hand, against jesus , and against the only true God!


I said it several times, the moment you use the words " I am" , what comes after will probably be a lie. You have vehemently refused to give us an opportunity to verify your so called born again status. Tell us the church you associate with so everyone can verify!.


You continue to spill falsehood, probably that's why you can't use the scriptures to surpport what you wrote above.

Peter did tell us the source of the spirit in them, which we can now assume is different from the one you claim to be in you.

Act 2:14-16,22-24,32,33(nkjv)

[b] 14.But Peter, standing up
with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words.
15 .For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.
16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:.......
22. “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you
by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 23. Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death;
24. whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it......
32. This Jesus God has
raised up, of which we are all
witnesses.
33. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and HAVING RECEIVED FROM THE FATHER the
promise of the Holy Spirit, He
poured out this which you
now see and hear.[/b]

They( peter and other disciples know where the spirit came from, its different from the spirit you claim to be in you .

The prophet Joel that peter quoted told us this:
Joel 2: 27- 29
[b]And you will have to know that I am in the midst of Israel
And that I am [u]Jehovah your God —there is no other!
My people will never again be put to shame.
After that I will pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh,
And your sons and your daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, And your young men will see visions. And even on my male
slaves and female slaves I will pour out my spirit in those days.


Again the whole world can see, you have refused to quote rev 1:1- 6 . Quoting verse 4 and Jumping to verse 7 and 8 only shows you are desperately trying to cover up something. That thing that will put fire into the lies you are desperately trying to establish! . Your refusal to quote from your approved translation or from the nwt the whole text of rev 1 :1- 6 is EVIDENCE 3 . You know the truth is in those verses, that's why you cannot quote it!

Rev 3:2,12 is another part of the scriptures , you know who was talking there, that's why you cannot tell us! You will be found a liar if you do.

This is my Church.
The first time we find the word Church is in {Matthew 16:18} where Jesus said He will build His Church upon the Revelation the Father gave Peter when he openly confessed that Christ is the Son of the living God, "Upon this rock I will rebuild My Church." So this must be the Churches confession of faith, if not. than it is not the Church. What this meant in the Judaic culture is that Christ is equal to God, have the same nature as His Father.
The scripture is clear only God is to be worshipped {Ex 34:14} "For thou shall worship no other God for the Lord {Yahweh} whose name is Jealous, is a Jealous God. "The Church worships God and also worships Christ, the Father in {Heb 1:6} tells all the Angels to worship the Son, both the Father and the Son are worshipped in heaven, {Rev 4:5} and on earth.
The bible teaches that Jesus is not only worshipped but also called God by Thomas in {John 20:28} "My Lord my God, {Greek The Lord of me, the God of me} We find the wise men worship Jesus as a Child {Matthew 2:11} The leper worshipped Jesus {Matthew 8} The ruler bowed down and worshipped {Matthew 9:18} The believer who was blind worshipped Him {John 9:38} The women worshipped Him {Matthew 15:35} Mary Magdalene worshipped Him {Matthew 28:9} The disciples worshipped Him {Matthew 28:17} Jesus was worshipped just as the father was worshipped.

It is called the Church of God which He had purchased with His own Blood {Acts 20:28} After Christ raised from the dead and ascended He sent the Holy Spirit to birth a new entity, the Church. The Greek word is ekklesia {Which is used 114 times in the New Testament}
WHICH MEANS A CALLED OUT ASSEMBLY {EK =out of Kalco = to call} it is never used of a building or of the Kingdom of God, This is not the Kingdom but included in it.
The Church is an invisible living spiritual organism, composed to all the believers world wide, from the time of its inception on Pentecost, until the taken away from the Church at the rapture. Its origin is found in God as the Holy Spirit gave it it's birth in {Acts 2:1-4} with the disciples and the Jews at pentecost in V 33 And we become part of that same Church today the same way they did by Spirit Baptism. Being Born Again of the Spirit. No-one joins the Church unless they are first joined to Christ. This is why Jesus said you must be Born Again, {By the Spirit {John 3:5} Not join the Church} The Church began in Jerusalem not Rome, Any Church that does not trace its start to Jerusalem on Pentecost is not His Church. Those who claim the Church needed to be restored from any apostasy are not part of the Original Church. Jesus said the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church.
This is my Church. The people are the Church.
And how does one join this one Church?
{1 Corinthains 12:27} "Now you are the body of Christ and members individually, Notice correctively and individually, This means one don't have to belong to a certain denomination or group but to Christ.
No-one is told to join the Church by the apostles because it is an automatic placing of one in the body of which Christ is the Head {2 Corinthians 5:17} Therefore if anyone is in Christ he is a new creation, old things have passed away, behold all things have become new, We are put in Christ to become a new creature, not in a Church. Becoming part of the Church is a natural outcome of the new birth.
{John 1:12-13} But as many as received Him to them gave His power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name, Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
To be born of God is to have the Holy Spirit regenerate the dead spirit in man back to a relationship with God. This comes through Christ alone, no Church or minister can give you this.
This is the Church I call the true Church of God.{Eph 5:23-24}

dolphinheart:
There are many denominations that claim to be penticostal, brocab, which one of them do you associate with!

I did not ask for the adress, I asked you to just tell us the name of the church you associate with!

What don't you understand, are you that silly that you don't know what a pentecostal is? Would you like the address to the church I attend? Are you willing to jump on the plane and travel far far away and seek the Church that's filled with the spirit of God with me?

dolphinheart:
@ brocab

I quoted from the scriptures to you, mostimes using the bible translation you agree with. My explanations where based on those scriptures, I did not formulate any. for the fact that you cannot give an explanation on the scriptures I quoted for you, or counter the explanations on those scriptures with your own explanation shows that you know I'm telling you the truth, but pride and hypocrisy is hindering you from accepting it. You are a politician, cus only politicians call something rubish without giving further explanations. There are several points, each point numbered, each point backed up by several scritural quotes denoting that jesus and jehovah are not the same person. One of those scriptures you could not quote, one of those explanations you could not counter, yet you keep saying its rubish. Your aim is evident, your desire is clear for all to see, you just want to find fault with the truth, but giving an explanation on the fault is impossible for you to do.


In your search for faults, you saw rev 1:7,8. You Thought that you could use only those verses to find fault. Apart from the fact that I told you to extent the verses and start from verse one to show you are a liar, I went one to quote several scriptures(more than ten) to show you that jesus and the father are not the same person. You have not been able to explain you view on the numerous scriptures I quoted, neither have you been able to quote rev: 1,6 talkless of giving explanations on it.

I even went on to ask you to tell us who was talking in rev 3:2,12, but I can bet, that on your private reading of those verses, you have seen that the scriptures will show you are lying if you dare to quote or explain those verses, hence you keep on acting repeatedly as if those questions do not exist. Your best defense is to claim I do not understand those verses.

Those numerous scriptures I quoted to you are from both the nwt and kjv versions and not the watchtower magazine. So its funny that you should say I should sit down and read the bible , when throughout our discussion, I've been quoting from the bible, and I've been asking you to explain several quotes from the bible. You are just trying to change the subject one again.

You are a liar brocab, adding words and not quoting those verses show you are a twister of the scriptures!.
I've told you to clear verse 1 to 6 first, before going to verse 7 and 8, but your desire to find fault will not allow you to.


Can you see how much of a liar you are? You can't even quote verses 1 to 6 of revelation chapter one. Everyone can see that you do know that you are not speaking the truth, hence your refusal to quote those verses, attempting to pick few words out of those 6 verses shows your hypocrisy. QUOTE THE WHILE VERSE 1 TO 6 OF REV CHP 1 FROM ANY TRANSLATION OF YOUR CHOICE BROCAB!. DO SO AND LET PEOPLE REALISE THEIR IS A LIAR BEHIND THE MONIKER!!!

I understand those verses, it Goes along with other verses in the scriptures. It goes along with jesus statements that he has a father, that the father is greater than him , that the father is the God of jesus, that the father is the " ONLY TRUE GOD". It goes along with the disciples statement that jesus has a God and father. It goes along with rev chapter 1 verse 1 where john recorded it that it is God that gave the revelation to jesus. It surely goes along with hebrews 1:9 where it is recorded that God called himself the God of the one he annointed. It goes along with Stephens vision. It goes along with angel Gabriel words to mary and jesus words to mary in which he instructed her to tell the disciples that " he had not yet ascended to his GOD AND FATHER!!"

This means evalasting life brocab, having the knowledge of the only true God, and of the one he sent to us, jesus Christ.
Note: you are making a good attempt at diverting from telling us your church. Its always easy to talk about others when you are sure they dnt know anything about you. But everyone will notice that you are hiding something! You are afraid to mention your church cus you know they dnt follow scriptural instructions!