₦airaland Forum

Maynmann, write to the supermods asking them to unban you from spambot. It's very annoying, but they usually do.

https://www.nairaland.com/mailsupermods

Maynmann:
I think it is the definition of “nothing” here.

I’m referring to nothing as this watery chaos.

Indeed it is about the definition of "nothing". (And I hope you are also finding that a lot of argument had here is about definitions, and individial understanding).

For me, "watery chaos" is something that has a watery substance that is in a state described as chaos, which is quite a lot of some things, if I were asked.

Maynmann:
Yeah i get it.
Do you know all mythologies point to “nothing from nothing”.

You know about the chaos gods?

No, I don't know that. Even the Christian myth does not point to nothing from nothing, since the god itself must have been something, and have been somewhere, albeit all we read about it is imaginary.

As I always say, there has to have been something to go Big Bang or be in chaos.

Brendaniel:
I understand your point but I don't just trust APC anymore, neither do I trust PDP, I will even believe any other party aside from these 2, I know most politicians and political parties might not be completely sincere but there are levels to it, PDP is still more sincere than APC, APC is the most insincere party I have seen in my entire life..

I don't trust any politician, not even Obi whom I campaigned for! And to claim PDP was better than APC would require me to forget that during PDP our money was carried away in ghanamustgoes and hidden in soakaways, which I can't quite recall happening under bubu, no doubt because there wasn't much money left over to steal.

Politicians are, on the whole, in post for their own selfish good and not mine, and my only hope is that their greed and desire to win the next election would at least force them to rule relatively well or we shall democratically get rid of them and replace them with someone else which we could not do under the numerous years of military rule, and eventually, we would, or rather, might get someone who is more sincere than most for a while, I hope.

Maynmann:
I just looked up online and saw that the universe is flat.
What you say about that? Lordreed budaatum

They obviously don't mean the same "flat" like when it is wrongly claimed the earth is flat.

https://www.astronomy.com/science/what-shape-is-the-universe/

Brendaniel:
I kinda understand the angle you are viewing it from with your explanation, for me I'm just tired of the government not being sincere, I just want to see some atom of sincerity, with the experience of the last administration I don't believe anything from APC anymore, I supported Buhari in 2015 and felt Tinubu was a sincere person with all the promises he made for Buhari and APC which all turned out to be lies. Even all the programs from school feeding to NPOWER and so on all turned out be failed projects used to enrich some people.

I do not expect politicians to be sincere and nor am I tired, despite having followed Nigerian politicians all the way back to Ironsi and Baron Wilson of Rievaulx in UK, and that apart from numerous ones I've studied through history.

What the people want, like "school feeding to NPOWER" that come cheap or free, are undeliverable because the people would not be willing to pay the tax that would enable it to be delivered, so politicians would always tell lies of delivering what they know they can't.

Student loan is however different, as the money will ultimately come from those who receive it, and I am certain the government will do all it can to collect, if just because if they don't they would not be able to take their cut.

Their lie about it is that it would be interest free, because after non-payback and corruption losses due to death and inflation that will make what is borrow worth a lot less than is paid back, they will decide they need to charge interest to cover expenses, we will soon find.

Let them charge us what things are actually worth by removing all subsidies, I say, then we can charge for our labour what it is worth, because I can't get my head around paying a teacher ₦30-40k when the going rate in UK for the same teacher is £30,000+.

We should stop allowing them to steal our labour, and pay us the right wage for it, is what I think, and having to pay back for the education we bought with the loan they give us would incentivive us to demand that proper wage.

benalvino3:
Before trump announced his candidacy for the first time. I never followed him or cared. I know him as a billionaire business man that's all.

The attack by the media, the lies and all the things that was going on made me realize how bad the US n the media is. So he earned my support. I knew the Russia collusion was a lie. Many things he was accused of are all lies.

But then someone with sense should not give people excuse to come for them. They have tried many and non stick... But it's just a matter of time before one sticks.

I have said for long he is old and should go take care of his grandchildren. Enjoy life but the fool has be running his mouth upandan. He is a headless chicken and should not near the White House.

"How bad the US media is", lol.

Ben, I worked in Mexico City for a year, and it's the closest I've been to America, and that was far too close for me, as I just dislike the country moreso than it's media which is just a part of their problem.

You can't steal other people's land and steal other people to develop it while protecting yourselves by shooting your neighbours and expect the place to be any good apart from rich which many think is what good is. Just see how they see more UFOs from outer space than anywhere else and are confused about who a man or woman is, and how endemic child abuse is. Or don't these things symbolise how dysfunctionaly bad it is as a nation? They do to me.

I dislike dump because he is taking advantage of the ignorance of the magas who think he's on their side, when in fact the only side dump is on is the side that puts dollars into his own pocket. And unfortunately, we lefties, with this current case, are just playing into his hands. Though we may think we got him, we are propelling him to beat soiled Biden and get back into the White House again!

What fears me most is if the term limit on America presidents is two consecutive terms or two terms in total, as I might find myself holding on to my dump deranged syndrome for 8 more years. Argh!

Brendaniel:
budaatum, what you have said here is good and I am not against the student loan but I do not trust the present government to see it through for the benefit of Nigerian students, because of corruption, if I have seen them already tackling corruption I may have had some hope in it that it will work but I don't see any difference yet from Buhari's style and Tinubu's style of handling corruption.

I hate starting what I hate to finish and that is what Tinubu is doing....

Brendaniel, though I am Yoruba, I am a chronic Obidient, and can't support APC Jaguda, especially because the lack of change of the party governing has deprived us from probing my bubu to see if he was anticorrupt or corrupt, and that's besides bullion van, and Aregbe taking my people's salary in Osun State to him in Lagos, but that doesn't stop me measuring a thing on its merit

Earlier, you said, "fighting corruption it is not what EFCC is doing chasing yahoo boys up and down, they should start from themselves and people around them", and I am afraid to tell you that I disagree, since I don't expect nor trust any politician to "start (fighting corruption) from themselves and people around them". I mean, see Boris, and America's dump, and tell me a reasonable rational person would expect Jaguda to be any better and more honest and less corrupt and I will show how high my pigs fly.

For me, fighting corruption starts with my very own self, by me not participating in corruptuon to begin with by not paying bribes or not cheating nor stealing, because, as is said, I should remove corruption in my own eyes before I start attempting to remove corruption from the eyes of others, and since there's no greater corruption than a corruption of gained knowledge, which is what one gets with an ill-funded education system, this fight has begun where I want it to.

Smarter better educated individuals are more likely to ensure a more correct and proper path is trodden than would those who received a corrupt substandard education, is what I think. But if we can't be bothered to educate ourselves out of corruptuon, then we should accept the substandard corrupt education we bought with money we received as a loan because years of paying back the loan we bought it with is our just desert for being ignorant and is bound to force us to learn.

As to finishing, let us at least start and see how far we get since perfection is the friend of doing nothing.

benalvino3:
He should not really. While he has been targetted by the left and FBI. He acts as a headless chicken sometimes. Since 2016 he has been targetted and spied on by an organisation that said they will stop him from becoming president or they have alternative to bring him down if he becomes the president.

Yet he stupidly carried classified documents and mishandle them. All this he brought to himself and should be purnished. This wrecklessness is why I am not supporting him for this election.

How I wish the same effect would be had by more, but I would not be surprised if it blew up in the face of we leftys. Some basilicolos love his wrecklessness after all.

PDPGuy:
After being indicted twice (or soon to be thrice if he is indicted in Georgia), I’m not sure Trump would participate in the primaries

You seriously think dump would not take advantage to dance on a court stage as part of his campaign, especially if he can get it televised?

I think you underestimate dump, and I am in fact worried this shîtshow would get him back into the White House, as it's bound to infect more deplorables to vote for him.

budaatum:
I can't stand him, and in fact fear that this court case will place so much light on him that he gets elected as the next president of America, such that if I were Biden I would just now announce that dump is pardoned so he does not get to go to court.

Perhaps you'd feel better if I add a Physics textbook and a book on history, which you should equally not believe but aim to understand.

Wawelexy:
You compare the bible with a novel? That's the height of it.... This shows you don't even know what you are arguing about... The book is meant to be read, understand and most importantly believe it....

Brendaniel:
budaatum I hope you really understand me, I am not faulting the Idea of student loan, it is a very good idea but at the stage Nigeria is right now, it is not what the government should be focusing on in order of priority ....

Brendaniel, student loan is obviously a priority of this government at the stage Nigeria is right now, as it's one of the things they've introduced very early, and I happen to agree with them, though I would place scrapping NYSC at the same priority level if it were up to me. An alternative to student loan is an increase in taxation so they have enough money to invest more in schools, which I'm sure you'd agree is needed, but I very much doubt I'd prefer more tax since it is equally, if not more so, subject to diversion and corruption.

No one knows how student loan would work out in the end if we want to be honest with each other, so why not give it time and a chance to see how it actually works before we shoot it down with our opinions and thoughts that are not based on any facts or data, is what I think and as I earlier said and have attached below.

As to whether I understand you or not, I'm very certain you can tell for yourself if I do or don't, since I am opposing what you are saying according to my own understanding. There's after all a difference between not understanding and not agreeing with you.

budaatum:
You will find they'll find a way of making you pay it back long after you stop being a student since Tinubu nor the loan givers are not into the sort of charity you are thinking of.

Even the part about interest free will turn out to be untrue as you'd find that the fees that cost so much now will more than double or triple to compensate so you end up owing lots.

You can japa afterwards of course, making it harder for them to make you pay, but I wouldn't be surprised if the loan is tied to your passport so you can't get one if you owe, or to your parents who'll have to pay it back if you don't. They can also make it a requirement of future employment like they do with NYSC, such that if you don't serve or don't pay back your loan you are disqualified for employment.

We shall find out in the future of course, so I'll make a note of this thread in my diary for 5 and 10 years time to reassess how it's gone.

Next thing he has to do is scrap NYSC so I can earn what I deserve instead of subsidising my employer by making my labour cheap for them while getting the skills and knowledge gets more expensive for me.

Ebubu2:
Tinubu has unified the exchange rate guys

He is amazing obidient me!

Mordecai:
Lol.
On the flip side, i.e. assuming but not conceding that it happens, wouldn't it be the others that got less education because they had to share with you?

And now that you know about that, instead of demanding increased funding so that the students get more, you want to shut down the flow?

So, if I share what I already have with you who had nothing, it is you who is sharing with me? Guess you have a point there, but the fact is that you are getting some of what you never got while I am giving away some of what I was getting so you can get some.

And do know that I don't mind. The alternative is only I get and you get none, which will result in me being surrounded by lots of ignorant people, and while a one eyed person is king in the land of the blind, I would rather everyone have eyes, especially since we are not a monarchy but a democracy where the multitude choose who rules, and uneducated people would not elect me, or would you?

Loans will result in more money to fund education, is what you miss. Or don't you think lecturers would demand more salary and investment in the infrastructure of their workplace?

Fees will double or triple in fact, so there is even more money, especially after some is corruptly diverted, so there.

Brendaniel:
Let me just tell you the truth, with corruption involved, it might be highly counter productive, NDDC is a case study, might make people poorer and commit suicide, there are so many things I want to say about this student loan but I will choose to reserve my comment for now, I wanted to open a thread which I might still open later on to address it because the student loan might end up becoming almost as useless as the P in psychology, I just pray it doesn't....

I wrote about the cassava loan and corruption and will tag it on below so you can read it yourself. Student loan might indeed be counter productive or useless, but the education received by those who need it and will take it would be priceless, and will continue to reward long after they pay the loan back or don't pay it back.

We are not the first to introduce student loan, and if you take it and decide suicide is the way to go then perhaps you shouldn't have taken it instead of, because of your own error, assuming every one is error prone.

budaatum:
Many people got agriculture loans and never paid back.

We were once asked to form a co-op for cassava loans. Lots of people joined only for me to discover those running it were not even farmers, and were padding it with us who were to give them credibility. I later found out this was cassava loan 2.0. First time they did it lots of people ran away from town because they could not pay it back having never had land nor planted cassava.

Personally, I don't understand how people expect a savvy Tinubu (you have to be savvy to have had to forfeit in America what it's claimed he forfeited), not to put hoops in place so he gets our money back plus profit.

To impact people, those who took loans must pay it back.

Brendaniel:
I'm Sorry if I sounded harsh with this... .

You are very free and entitled to your opinion, and need not apologise for it.

Wawelexy:
Imagine you trying to buttress your point with the same book created by and credited to the God you claim not to believe in.... Isn't that a traits of hypocrisy? Lol.... Sir/Ma, please kindly stop deceiving yourself cos you trying to be woke... No offense

It's one of the amazing books ever written and is very worth reading, but believing it instead of understanding it is just the complete waste of brain cells and the book. You wouldn't believe Things Fall Apart not Harry Potter, so why believe any book?

And no, I'm not trying to be woke. I am very woke indeed. Do note.

Wawelexy:
Well, your near death experience does not in any relate to having an encounter with the most high, near death experiences are natural but rare, while having an encounter with God is sacred and for only the chosen one, that's the difference you failed to see....

Perhaps my "near death experience does not in any relate to having an encounter with the most high" because there was no most high, or simply because my mind was not filled prior to the experience with an encounter with the most high.

Birds fly with what is in their belly, you see, just as we humans imagine what we believe or think of. And I don't exactly believe in a most high since I very well know most highs tend to be characters some write about in books, to be understood at best, instead of believed and ending up with the shudders.

bassdow:
Why won't they televise INEC's court proceedings ?

I don't think Nigeria televises it's court cases. Wish we would. Wish we televised House of Reps and Senate too like C-Span does in America.

One day. I hope.

Hyperchi:
It funny u hate the man up to his name Ops to see how black hearted u are

I can't stand him, and in fact fear that this court case will place so much light on him that he gets elected as the next president of America, such that if I were Biden I would just now announce that dump is pardoned so he does not get to go to court.

Brendaniel:
I'm sorry to say but everything you wrote here is complete rubbish,...

You are very well welcome to your opinion.

Mine is that more people will be able to go to university to purchase an education that will empower more to "take certain steps" to "create more jobs" for themselves and you need not bother taking the loan if you do not need it.

Wawelexy:
I have been there myself, so I know what he's talking about.... Someone who has never been to China can never describe how it looks to you that have been there severally.... From his description, you can always tell if truly he's been there or maybe someone told him or better still he saw it in a book or video... Hope you get my point?

Let me post my passport below so you can check for yourself if it has China entry visa stamped on it or not, then perhaps we can look to see the point to be gotten.

budaatum:
First. Triple, everything any of us says is just our opinion based on our experiences or what we've learnt somewhere or been taught or told or made up in our own heads.

Now, I myself have experienced almost dying twice, once when I drank up all the water at the Bar Beach, and another time when 30, 5 milligram valium tablets found a way to jump down my throat.

At both instances were there what many describe as near death experiences, but the clue is clearly in the "near", which implies not exactly dead, and which means brain (and nervous system) activity has not exactly stopped, though I must confess that no one measured how close to death I actually was since they thankfully were more focused on keeping me alive.

TenQ:
If you had checked carefully, I was careful to let him speak his Own testimony.

All I ask is that you ask yourself the question : Could this have being an eleborate fabrication?

He saw himself in a bad loveless place!
For want of language, the nearest word would be hell.

The conclusion :
He stopped being an Atheist!

It could be an elaborate conscious elaborate fabrication, like Swedenborg's, or an unconscious elaborate fabrication brought on by his mind while he was near death. Fact is, it is not a experience of a real thing that actually happened.

TenQ:
I laugh with you too.... VERY FUNNY!

Except this is a blatant fabrication, I honestly don't understand how a dead person on his bed can see outside his room and seeing his weeping wife.

I've been laughing at this too. Very funny!

Ah. And there was me thinking you believed it.

My apology is tendered

TenQ:
Lazarus was resurrected by Jesus
The little girl was resurected by Jesus

How many in a million deaths for any reason gets returned back?

Every Christian believe in miracles : a miracle is a temporary suspension of the natural laws

It also seems to be the temporary suspension of the use of the brain if you asked me.

But perhaps that's why "Christians", some at least, never hunger, because manna miraculously falls into their mouths from heaven, and despite God being written to have supposedly stated otherwise, that you would sweat (work) before you eat!

TenQ:
The aim of my post is just one: that Atheists consider the evidence that beyond death is not oblivion. That live exists beyond the physical (God, Angels , Demons are real).

The thread is Not doctrine in any ways that is why I didn't make it religious in nature

Please, TenQ, this thread is doctrine.

Everyone who lives knows that though from inside our mothers do we come forth, dust is what we return to when we die despite all the claims we wish to make about near death which is not death!

Wawelexy:
You never had an encounter, you thought you had....

So too did the person in the YouTube "thought he had" but you don't doubt his encounter now, do you?

Is that because you'd rather believe what you see in a YouTube than what a human you can question directly tells you perhaps?

TenQ:
I didn't even mention the name of Jesus nor did I say anything about God.

But the children of hate must live according to the seed of hate in them.

Bottom line based on his Own Report :
He was sick and died
Went to Hell as a Atheist
Received Mercy
No more an Atheist

A near death experience where the "Bottom line based on his Own Report is He was sick and died".

Surely, it could not have been near if he died, or could it?

Then he goes to hell, as religiously expected, since that's where he's been informed atheists go, and he expects to be believed of course. lol.

Guess he might not have heard of Swedenborg who went to heaven and also to hell without nearing death not to talk of dying.

Brendaniel:
Nigerian and Nigerians are suffering not because of lack of policies or bills or infrastructures but largely because of corruption, that is why I laughed when the removal of subsidy was implemented, that is not the complete solution, anywhere the money is diverted to they will go after it to steal it.

This is where I see the error in your thinking, especially your "anywhere the money is diverted to they will go after it to steal it".

First, let's see where the money is actually coming from, it being a loan. From the loan taker, I presume you'd agree, and who will become a loan payer on graduation and securing a job. And it will, partly at least, be going to buy the education you pay for, after, I can assure you, lecturers have diverted some to their pay rise once loans start paying fees, and if there's any left after diverting some to admin fees (or corruption cost, if you'd like to call it that), to better infrastructure.

Now tell me what you would be doing if the money that you take as a loan to buy the education they are selling you is diverted so you don't get what you are now in debt for. Will you not complain, and even get off your ass and demand that it be diverted where it should be so you get what you borrowed to pay for? And if it's not diverted to give you what you pay for, would you pay the loan back? After all, if its not of sufficiently high enough quality, you are unlikely to get a job with it, and since no pay for you, no loan pay back, ba?

You see, when you buy quality education with the money that you borrowed, you will not be expecting or waiting for government to "create more jobs" or "take certain steps" for you, because the quality education that you borrowed to pay for will teach and empower you to take certain steps to create jobs for yourself and others.

As for all else you wrote, we have addressed yours and the ops concerns in numerous threads already that you can go read all over Nairaland, which is that instead of waiting for government to "take certain steps" and "create more jobs" like it is manna falling into your waiting mouth from heaven, loans will empower more to "take certain steps" to go up to the heavens and grab the manna for themselves By golly, we might even be so empowered to fight the corruption and diversions ourselves!

Mordecai:
It is shocking how an apostle of Awolowo is....

Don't make me insult you. Who made who apostle? And you have the gall to tell me to "look beyond partisan politics" when look at partisan politics is exactly what you've done here if you ask me.

That your so called "free education" was not so free for those who paid for it. Before Jakande, an Apostle of Awolowo spent money decades ago for free education, "rats talk jo!" Then free education, and a lot of kids in my neighbourhood could go to school to learn to read instead of talking crap. But for me the cost was hugh as I got less education than I otherwise might have gotten, as I now had to share so others could have some. I lost my maths teacher who went off to head some other school, and I lost my English teacher and a few others too, as my school was split into 4 to accommodate 2 more secondary schools and a primary school, and if it were food, it was like I now had to share my full plate of food with 4 other people, but at least I now wouldn't be surrounded by idiots, so I did not mind the cost to myself, after all, groundwork had to be laid. But times are different now. The groundwork has been laid, and people now understand the value of education, so why should it continue to be free now that we have more people needing it, and need money to invest in it to improve its standard? Do you not think everyone who can afford it should not be able to buy themself a full plate of food that they do not have to share with others, as in, get a high quality education not ravaged by strikes and handouts and lecturers who are low paid and prey on their students instead of doing an excellent job teaching them?

Ignorance is costly indeed, but Government can not fund the high quality education and healthcare that we need today to make us valuable assets to ourselves and our country, and anything they provide for free or even cheap would not be the highest quality and standard that we deserve because there's far too many of us to share it amongst, and there's no way Nigerians would be willing to pay the tax that would be required to pay for it. And when we pay for it we'd have more money to invest in it and might even start selling it at higher rates to Europeans who will come to buy it from us like they used to, which would benefit us even more.

On that very unfree note, my old students association is raising money to install electronic whiteboards in all the classes because we are fully aware that government can not fund buying them for us and return our school to the highest standard it was before we had to share. So please, here's the gofundme https://gofund.me/8cdbd9d6. Even just ₦10, if anyone can. buda will even be ever so grateful if so referenced or even if you just comment, if you can, moreso if you buy the £75 ticket and attend the fundraising even in October. Thanks very much in advance.

LegendHero:
Finally, what is the essence of this thread?

To make himself feel good I think, and I am delighted you very well helped him.

You like it? E worth it? E get prospects? You get time do better things? Dem go promote you? You hate am? You wan come back home?

You haven't said what it means to you!