₦airaland Forum

striktlymi: I can see that the thread is back on track. I guess it was great to get stuff off our chest before getting down to business.

So many great people to choose from. If wishes were horses, my very selfish list of nine speakers would have been:

1) Alwaystrue
2) Goshen360
3) Mranony1 (Mranony2)
4) Ubenedictus
5) Truthislight
6) PastoroluT
7) Joagbaje
Image123
9) Enigma

primarily because I have been priviledged to have gone through a number of their posts unlike the others on the 'list'.

If wishes were horses still, I would have loved a situation where one or more of the topics would talk about those practical challenges facing the every day Christian e.g Euthanasia, Abortion, IVF etc their morality in the light of God's grace.

But sadly, wishes are not horses and I am well advised to nominate no more than two candidates and leave the topics to the organisers. Given that Mranony1 is already selected and Ubenedictus is not part of the initial list, then my nominees are:

1) Alwaystrue
2) Truthislight

Hi bro, I don't think we are limited to the list DrummaBoy drew up. I guess those were the folks he could think of at the moment he posted. Even if ubenedictus or some other christian isn't on the original list, I don't think anything stops his or her nomination by whoever

Am I right DrummaBoy?

The old days had its good and bad just like today has its good and bad. I really am not sure which to choose but I miss the innocence of yesteryears. Most children were allowed to be children. Abubakar, Mahmoud and hassanah (my secondary school mates)were other children like me. Their states of origin and religion were not problems unlike today. Greed, covetousness and insatiability were not that widespread then. Things were a bit slow then but the speed of today can kill our spirit and humanity.

Ohhh....the good old days but wait we are discussing on social media?? A feature of the modern age??

I no sabi joor.

I nominate Striktlymi and ichuka

Dear Tgirl4real, how u dey? I think I have to buy you coolumycin make u fit cool down read every every well well . I've already indicated I'm not in the running pls.

In fact since DrummaBoy mention secretary, I nominate you for that one

@Goshen and DrummaBoy, I will suggest you start with those who have indicated interest already. I think yooguyz, ihedinobi and anony have indicated interest.

Then we the audience can be allowed to nominate others. If they accept then they are included. If we get more acceptance of nominations than needed, then you can fashion a way of trimming the number down or accommodating the speakers with extra days and topics.

As soon as you signal, I'll get in my own nominations.

Cheers and weldone.

Image123: duh, answers have been given to everyone of your questions. I'm not interested in starting a fresh round of circles and ellipses. It's not my fault if that pisses you.

Really?? Piss me?? Very far from it bro. Is it not you again?? I'm used to you saying you've had enough of tithe discussions and are not interested when your inconsistenties and scriptural gymnastics are shown to the public only to reappear and develop interest when you think its safe to do so. You've done this cycle plenty times in the less than 2 years I've been here and only God knows how many times since you first came to NL.

Stay blessed and safe till this round of queries cool down.

I'll roll out the carpet to welcome you on the next adventure. Trust me, it won't be long.

Image123: Olaa said we should be faithful in tithes, offerings etc. You brought up Deuteronomy asking him if we should practice is faithfully as written there. He then posted a devotional(which you say you agree with) that explains how that passage applies today. Simple.

That was the basic thing i said. Your reply should logically border on whether he truly did or he did not. But you responded by asking me about four or five questions on like three passages. i'm not interested.

Of course you won't be interested and I surely don't need you to be interested because those questions will always expose your consistent inconsistency. If you feel obliged to defend olaa(as if the man asked for your help), ensure you understand what issues are being discussed. Olaa and I have closed the case. If you feel obliged to throw yourself into the mix, then my questions would be there to welcome you.

See other questions you will not be interested in

If a devotional can discard the commands in Deut 14:22-29 and design a new format for its application today, why should Malachi 3 remain so cast in stone that you use it to hound and frighten Christians into compliance today?

What is so sacrosanct about Malachi 3:8-11 that isn't sacrosanct about Deut 14:22-29?

Who gave pastors the authority to remix or discard Deut 14:22-29 but hold tenaciously to Malachi 3:8-11?

Of course I don't expect you to be interested but a honest seeker of truth would wish to find answers to those questions.

Image123: You're not reading what i'm saying.

How do you mean?

Take heart showkey.....

Such is life. I read somewhere that in life, your true friends might not be more than 4 at any given time so just relax. The crowd is always after something but you can be sure it has little or nothing to do with love...its just self interest.

Do the best you can and leave the rest.

Image123: Olaa rightly showed how that passage could apply today using that devotional. i think either he or myself have made reference to that same devotional in the past, showing that tithe givers and teachers do teach that passage, contrary to concocted opinions that tithe givers don't reference it.

I hear you.

That devotional referenced the tithe for the poor embedded in Mosaic law but doesn't insist on a tithe for the poor today, it only advises rightly that God intends us to be generous to the needy around us from our resources. Do you agree?

Numbers 18:21-31 insists on a tithe to the levites and tithe of tithe to the priests. Do you not agree that just like the devotional used Deut 14, the lesson for Christians today is to provide for those who can't do so for themselves because of ministry work? And not an adherence to Mosaic tithes?

Does it not follow that your favourite Malachi 3 is not commanding Christians to adhere to tithing but imploring us to ensure our church groups today (members and leaders) don't suffer want when we are able to succour them?

If you believe that we shouldn't follow the law in Deut 14:22-26 to take a tithe of our increase and use for a real feast at church premises(not spiritual food), why should you be insisting on a christian paying 10% to a church organisation? Do you believe or not that the injunction in Malachi 3 isnt binding on Christians?

If we shouldn't follow Deut 14:28-29 to use all the tithe of the third year strictly for the purpose of charity as instructed by God himself with a promise of a blessing, then why insist on your almighty Malachi 3 to enforce 10% to church or pastor?

That devotional talks of taking lessons from Deut 14 and doesn't insist on strict obedience to the law. If truly you understand and agree with that devotional, you'll never again preach a mandatory or obligatory 10% to Christians.

But then.....

fubbyy: *When you go to school,graduated from no department "you feel suicidal"

*when you are up to 28 and never made money all your life"you feel suicidal"

* when you prayed and God refused to answer" you feel suicidal"

* when you feel something is wrong with your life but you don't know what it is "you feel suicidal"

*When no one refused to help you "you feel suicidal"

*When the only human you ever loved died on your palm"you feel suicidal"

*when some people wishes to be like you but you know they are better than you " you feel suicidal"

*When your family thinks you don't want to be useful but within you, you have done everything humanly possible but it aint working out "you feel suicidal"

*When you speak to your pastor and he says "keep praying" and you do but nothing happens "you feel suicidal"




I'm feeling suicidal

Sorry, didn't see this before my last response.

fubbyy: when your life has no direction, you feel lost and suicidal

I have a slight idea of the bolded. Are u a graduate who can't seem to find a job?

Or you were working but lost your job? And have a family that you can't feed?

Did you lose your business etc?

Or you're simply saddened by the fact that your mates are living lives that seem to put yours to shame? You see your friends, mates or even those you're better than on Facebook living it up (or so you think) and in comparing where you're relative to theirs, it looks like life has crept by and swept you aside?

fubbyy: lack of hope

Lack of hope Because of one or more of the following??

Chronic ailment?

Financial or career issues?

Spousal issues?

The general feeling of hopelessness and despondence in the land?

What exactly?

alexleo: Sorry bro that's an error. I'm not a pastor, I'm just an ordinary church member. I don't bring out time to do thorough bible study like pastors because of my business. That's bad of me though. Most times you see me ask too much questions here its just for me to learn better, not that I know very well. I can only contribute where I think I know. Pls delete my name. God bless you.

Lai lai, I no go gree....

I'm not a pastor too. Just an engineer that couldn't even go to church meeting today because he's at a remote location working for his daily bread.

Try make out time Alex, God is your muscle

alexleo: My dear you don't need to excuse yourself. I think we are the ones that should request for who should be dropped(except if my assumptions are wrong). I only expressed my rejection of frosbel and his heresy. There are some people in that list that I'm looking forward to reading their presentations and you are one of them. Bidam, OLAADEGBU and Tgirl have excussed themselves, Now you too. when you people are excusing yourselves like this it means we are losing people that will say the truth. And if we lose truth speakers then the conference will be filled with liars. Too bad.

Thanks for your kind words bro. The reason I want me excused is to allow other view points. Its not like only some people have monopoly of the truth or sound doctrine. I was privileged to present last year, I think we should let some others be used by God to bless us this year.

In fact, I'm nominating you, alexleo to handle a topic this year. No is not an option abeg.

Thanks

Gombs: Remember miriam and Aaron, when they spoke about Moses? When God confronted them, did He ask them why they spoke about Moses the way they did? Or....

Point is, pray for ministers of the gospel, rather than slander them around, whether they be right or wrong. What rights do we have to question another man's servant? Now, look at seasoned ministers all over the world, how many times have u seen them criticising other churches just cos they don't teach what they teach?

I know some pastor's are dubious and act in really unchrist-like, but what then is my job? Go around condemning them? Where then is the love of Christ? I rather fo on my knees for the pastor's sake and the sake of his brethren. That's why we can't blame the brethren either, cos a sheep follow its shepherd, the brethren may not ask questions because they knkw not too, and when they know from the word, they usually don't question the Pastor, they simply move out, for God is not an author of confusion. I never asked questions in the Anglican church, when I got to know the Word and did wha the Bereans did, I simply left the Anglican communion, and didn't criticise them, even when glaringly, evil men are made elders and chairmen of events. I didn't go tell folks to leave there, they watched and saw something different...and God did the rest.

But if folks think they are ordained to rubbish pastors or churches all in the guise of "they preach heresies", God bear me witness...they do so at their peril. Remember David and Saul? I never question Pastors, for I don't know the calling on them. Simple. I use the recipe the bible gave for testing Spirits, and it works perfectly fine for me

Happy Sunday bro

You're right criticism could get very excessive and personal (I'm guilty) but this your write up only serves to cow Christians into unalloyed, unchallengeable obedience and servitude to self proclaimed 'men of God' who use and useless them. I have learnt to caution myself in my choice of words in this matter but that doesn't mean we should close our mouths or hide our keypads and not sound a note of warning when clear evil and deceit is on display.

Aaron, Miriam and Moses episode was unique to that time just like the below scripture was valid then but totally useless to us today

Exodus 31:15 KJV
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord : whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Then put into practice

Numbers 15:32, 35 KJV
And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. [35] And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

How many people have been ordered killed by God today because of sabbath?

God didn't change but the dispensations are not the same. Show me an example of the Aaron, Miriam and Moses episode in the new covenant so we dissect it together. I doubt you'll find any. Its not a coincidence or mistake that all your examples on this matter were under the law. You my friend should know the difference between law and grace.

42 children were torn apart by bears for insulting Elisha's bald head, do you honestly believe such can happen today? What difference then did the cross make?

I have been very aggressive in the past on these issues but I've learnt to take it easy. However my friend, if you take something that doesn't belong to you or you lie and twist scriptures to get into the pockets of gullible people, whether you wear a collar, cassock or a cape, I don't know what other name you wish to be called by other than a thi...... and a Robb.....

A pastor was arrested by the police in ketu for warehousing guns and receiving tithes from robbers last year, what would you call such?

A pastor was arrested for printing fake naira notes in ikorodu last year, what would his name be?

A pastor was arrested this year after impregnating plenty married women and their daughters claiming holy ghost directives, how would you describe him?

Rev Jim Jones led almost a thousand people in mass suicide in 1978, do you think more shouts and caution from those wiser couldn't have stopped that?

I'm glad that you at least agree there are fake pastors and Christians who don't know but please sound the warning to those gullible sheep. You might be saving a life or someone's eternal destination.

alexleo: Again I want to know why frosbel is among the teachers. He has declared in this forum that he is not a chirstian and that he is serving a different Jesus and a different God yet you people still included him here. To teach us what exactly? Can't you people do without him?. For someone who said he is still evolving from his believe I think it would ve been better to allow him to land, at least to know what his new findings/doctrine is all about, before allowing him to teach whatever but it seems you people tremble and bow before him like a god. Everything he preaches is oksy by you. You dare not oppose or question him(of course none of you have done that to my own knowledge). Does this action from you people show sincerity of purpose?

I'm not sure they've picked anybody yet or picked frosbel for that matter. The list I saw up there should have at least 20 names (I didn't count) so its just a pool from which speakers would emerge.

I wouldn't want a situation where all the same people who presented last year would present again this year. There should be wholesale changes or at least a good mix of new monikers.

For the above reason, I'm excusing myself from being nominated to present anything this year.

@OP, I am in full agreement with you and wish i could like your post a million times.

I believe the church needs more bible teachers now than ever before and I price a bible study over and above any miracle crusade or 'powerful preaching'. The total absence of a question and answer session in Sunday and weekly services has increased biblical illiteracy among young Christians and this makes them eternally yoked to the whims and caprices of their pastors. Engage them in a discussion and you start hearing "my pastor said,..." or "papa said,...".

If pastors wish to be honest and aren't looking to create zombies who must obey their every instruction (whether good or bad), they should encourage and give more time to bible study, Sunday school etc where members can ask questions and get clarification. Even the pastor doesn't know everything and could learn a thing or two from his members.

If your pastor is on the wrong track or led astray and you can't ask him questions, then you're done for.

OLAADEGBU: If you say that you understood the devotional I posted then let it rest there. No controversy.

I do fully and I sincerely wish you do too

OLAADEGBU: If you want to know how to apply the above into today's context then see the devotion below. I believe I shared this sometime ago on this thread probably before the crash.

My dear olaa, do you actually read the articles you copy and paste? Do you realise that devotional supports my position and those of others who have been trying to make you see? The devotional talks about a tithe for the poor, and rightly says the lesson for today is charity to the needy around us. Is that not what we've been trying to show you since? Or you'll only understand it if it comes from bro Kumuyi's pen?

Do you agree with the write up or you're just trying to hold unto any straw in desperation? Is it inapplicable to you? If you say its inapplicable to you or you don't regard it, can you be gracious enough to say why? If you say God changed the format and context, is there any scriptures to confirm?

When Jesus spoke in Matthew 23:23, which context was he referring to? This your 'new improved context' or the one God gave Moses in the wilderness? And which your devotional affirms?

OLAADEGBU: "If we wish to honour and please our Lord, He expects us to do both—faithful tithes and offerings, and judgment, mercy, and faith."

Deuteronomy 14:22-29 KJV
Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. [23] And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always. [24] And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the Lord thy God hath blessed thee: [25] Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose: [26] And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, [27] And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee. [28] At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: [29] And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

Does the above scripture look like how God wants us to faithfully practice tithing? Do you disagree with the scripture above? And if you do, are you able to tell why? Then with scriptures tell us how to do otherwise?

OLAADEGBU: If you want to know how our giving honours the LORD then peruse weighty matters in the article below:

I already know giving honours the Lord my friend and I'm not averse to it. I also know exactly how giving honours God which is why I referenced Matthew 25. That is the same kind of giving the apostles and early Christians practiced and extolled all through the new testament. The issue we are discussing here is your compulsory and obligatory 10% of every income which you fancifully call tithe.

Don't lose the focus please. We are discussing tithing as it pertains to Christians; not giving.

Gombs: And yet, no scripture in the Bible can be brought out by a select few, a scripture condemning tithing or those who do. But some folks make it a point of duty to fight it day and night, come rain come shine.... and freely insults tithers, pastors, churches and yet claim sainthood!

So you are only fulfilling a 'God ordained obligation' to insult Christians for refusing to be bound to a Jewish law made specifically for Jewish people under mosaic law for the express benefit of levites, widows, the poor and strangers among them? And you think those who return the favour are causing u harm? You're permitted to insult people but those you insult have no right to give u back in good measure since you're a saint and they're not?

You're a saint for insulting others but see others as not worthy enough to return the favour?

Haba mallam!!?? Haba my friend??

Bidam: Was it the guy that called non tithers criminals or was it the bible that says so?

You see Bidam, I didn't join or post on that thread because I expect folks who come to discussions like this to behave like adults even if they might be juveniles. It was a very childish thread to say the least and I'm an adult. I don't have that much time.

If it gives you joy to call Christians who don't tithe, criminals, then by all means pls I beseech you, go right ahead. I won't interfere with your enjoyment.

My post was addressed to alexleo and I believe he understood what I was driving at.

Gombs: d bible expressly called non tither robbers,hence criminals. pls show me where d bible called tithers "gullible" or pastor who teach tithing "scammers", "thieves on the pulpit" "fraudsters" etc. or you wan deny the use of one all more of the enquoted adjectives?

ayam waitin for an answer

Really?? So you're an adherent of Mosaic law? And here was I assuming all along that its because of Abraham's example you tithe. Since God called Jews who were not tithing robbers, what does that make the tithe?? A law or freewill?

Isaac didn't pay tithe, according to u, he must be a robber and a criminal right?

Jesus didn't pay tithe, neither did he collect tithes, what does that make him? A criminal?

Paul and the other apostles didn't pay tithe neither did they collect as apostles of the church, they too must be criminals abi?

You see my friend, your hypocricy will always show at this point. Malachi 3:8 will always trip you up because when you lie that its Abraham's example you follow to tithe, you always run to Malachi to scare yourself into compliance. I'm not against you enjoying your eldorado and joy of calling non tithers criminals but always remember the injunction on tithes below from God almighty himself so you can truly get that windows of heaven to open and not be seen as a profane and lawless person yourself

]Deuteronomy 14:22-29 KJV
Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. [23] And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always. [24] And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the Lord thy God hath blessed thee: [25] Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose: [26] And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, [27] And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee. [28] At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: [29] And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

The bible didn't call pastors robbers of tithe because pastors were not assigned the duty to collect tithes in the bible so they had no opportunity to steal from it. It was the exclusive preserve of levites. If pastors now claim the rights and privileges of levites without God's command, i leave u to give them a name that suits them.

alexleo: I don't think I saw the thread. There are threads I don't read. Even if I had seen it I may not bother to read it. I don't read every thread.

Here's the thread https://www.nairaland.com/1809900/non-tithers-criminals

Just like you I don't read neither do i comment on every thread. I only saw it because my moniker was mentioned. Go through it and I believe you'll understand why i wrote what you quoted.

striktlymi: You may not hate and probably others may say the same but the display shown here demonstrates a strong dislike for people (not necessarily what they do) which defines hatred perfectly.

I know and agree with you.

Its been a worry to me since the first day I got involved in the religion section. In fact the responses I got to my first series of posts after registering almost made me run away from this forum.

My belief has always being that 'we can disagree without being disagreeable'

Nothing can change that particular belief of mine

alexleo: I like the idea of unity that is being foistered here but since you guys branded tithers "fraudsters", then it means that "fraudsters" like Bidam, Image123 and OLAADEGBU shouldn't have been included in your list. Since when did fraudsters become bible teachers? "Is Saul among the prophet?

Hi alexleo, I'm sure you saw the thread titled 'non tithers are criminals' on the first page?

The name calling and hate is on both sides of the divide. Both sides are guilty pls

striktlymi: I really really want to make Heaven...if for nothing but to see the reactions of people when they meet someone they are not too fond of sharing a table with them.

Didn't know a very trivial matter, such as tithe giving, can cause so much disunity. I would understand when people hate me as a Catholic, but tithe That is ridiculously laughable.

Why should anybody hate you because you're a member of the Roman catholic church?

Why should any catholic hate a protestant or a Pentecostal because they don't submit to the Pope?

Why should paying tithe or not paying tithe cause any hatred?

I don't hate Muslims so why should catholics be recipients of 'my hatred'?

I can understand being frustrated because the other party can't seem to understand my position but degenerating to hate?? It beggars belief actually.

ichuka: Hmm,longtime.
presumed u no dey
offshore too?

No be small thing o.

Hope you're good my brother?

Cheers

Bidam: Bro..u no dey tire?..BTW long time..hw job?

My bro, how we go do? You sef no gree tire na job is very great. We give all praises to God. Trust you're doing great too?

Cheers

Bidam: true money can be used as a tool but i am looking at it beyond that, for example when peter preached during pentecost and 3000 were saved money wasnt needed.it was much later when they were being discipled that money was sourced for.They had to sell lands ad possesions to meet up the need at that point in time.God doesnt need money to advance His kingdom.The kingdom will keep advancing even if antithers are against the use of money for the gospel.It is the Holy Spirit that does the revival not man not money and not antitithers.

And surely NOT TITHERS.

I love this thinking

OLAADEGBU: Money is certainly need to further the gospel. I can understand why the haters of the Kingdom of Christ would disagree.

Cheap blackmail bro.

Christians give in church meetings excetera and no one here has railed against giving Money in church meetings. If anyone said so, I'll join you to condemn him now.

What we are saying is that tithing isn't a Christian doctrine just like circumcision, sabbath, feast of tabernacles etc have nothing to do with the new covenant.