₦airaland Forum

Gombs: [b]How many have you healed?[/b]Yeah, u do silent things only God sees...If he offers you documented cases u would reject it and still doubt and say he's clamouring spotlight, why didn’t peter and paul stop luke from reporting the miracles they wrought? Why did Jesus tell folks of things he's done?

@the bolded, I thought its not about Jo? I thought its all about Christ? So its Jo that heals his 'victims' after all, not Jesus. Do you heal too? I don't heal. Jesus does and I've not come here to regal you with such finely scripted stories of 'non existent healings' like the one that is the trademark of you lot.

Of course you guys are alternate jesuses who need your exploits documented in case there'll be need in future for another bible. However, ensure you document your failures too o, so we can have a complete picture.

Gombs: Don't derail this thread joor, carry your tithe matter go elsewhere. I find your inability to glorify God in a thread dedicated to it very worrisome.

@the bolded. Just had to point out your hypocrisy to you.

Glorify God you said?? I glorify God for this survivor. What i wont do is glorify your hero. There's nothing about glorifying God in your mind and that of Jo on this thread. It was opened strictly to validate a glory seeking self professed 'miracle worker' who is so obsessed with getting validated by NL and his very first post showed it for the world to see.

Stop attaching Jo to Dennis. Thank God we heard the man's story in the media otherwise una for don claim am again as another of your exploits.

Joagbaje: I do work miracles as expected of a christian . I have at least 4 HIV cases healed . Blind cases . And a dead raised to life. I don't need any validation from anyone. It's only sad. That many folks here don't know christ nor his power. See how so called Christians are shaking at a common demonic desease. What does the name if Jesus mean to you? What does his death mean to you. Do you know him ? The gospel is not in words but it's in power.


1 Thessalonians 1:5
For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power,

1 Corinthians 2:4
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

Only 4HIV cases Paul healed an entire city.

If you're not seeking valivation, what is the aim of this thread? What will you do next? Create a human being?

The name Jesus means more than physical healing. I assumed you should know that by now but then....

Joagbaje: Titus 1:15
Unto the pure all things are pure. . .

Purify your mind sir. I only shared a testimony how the dreaded e-bola was cured through prayer. Many began to doubt And I said from my discovery . Jesus is the cure . Now confirmations are coming from different Quaters .jesus name is cure. So why are you unjustly attacking me . Did I use my name to pray for the man? I only use the name of Jesus.

@the bolded. Of course this is another attempt to validate yourself as a "miracle worker". Simple. However, its very laughable that you think this will make you become a more believable and trustworthy person on NL with respect to that your 'miracle expedition' to Tanzania. Are you the only person praying against Ebola? Pls all Christians are praying and we thank God for His mercies.

Learn to project less of yourself egbon. This thread won't help the image you so badly want to polish I can assure you.

Joagbaje: Great thread ! I'm vindicated . I'll be back. . .

Egbon, you guys love the limelight too much. What has this healing got to do with you? What vindication do you seek? I thought it should strictly be about Christ?

Abeg leave yourself and name out of it. It has nothing to do with you and you should caution your spiritual daughter to stop seeing situations like this as a veritable opportunity to promote your name.

Thank God for the recovery of Dennis.

Gombs: ......As for the colored, the power of the Cup and bread... the man's faith too juch joor, yet some folks believe only a priest or pastor should administer the Holy Communion.......

But when it comes to tithes, only a priest or pastor MUST collect it ba? otherwise its not acceptable to God abi??

You try my friend

Some things are just unexplainable when it comes to the survival instinct of the average human. You just have to keep wondering "how can, how could"?

Good luck to the ones still alive.

"Christianity started in Jerusalem as a movement.....It got to Rome and became an institution..... It spread round Europe and became a culture....it got to America and became an industry; a very big industry.....Rome, Europe and America exported their different versions to Africa and it became a hotbed of confusion....but Christ is coming back for a movement"

May God help us

mbaemeka: 1 Timothy 5:23King James Version (KJV)
23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

The word infirmities as used here is astheneia. Like I said to trustman Infirmties encompasses sicknesses and diseases but diseases and sicknesses do not encompass infirmities. And astheneia was used by Paul only to describe a weakness and not a disease or sickness. When Paul talked about sicknesses he used astheneo. Therefore in this case Paul said use a little wine to strengthen your oftenly weak stomach. I know some translators translated the word to mean illnesses, but they would be wrong because Paul was so articulate he knew when to use words like astheneo, astheneia and even asthenes. If he knew to use astheneo for Trophimus then he knew to use astheneia for Timothy.



I am honest with myself and for those words to be used interchangeably then there should be some consistency in usage even as we consider the user. In John 5:5 the (man was weak in his legs- he could not walk; used to describe impotency; not used by Paul). 1 Corinthians 8:12 the word used was asthenes and it meant weak conscience. In 2 Corinthians 11:21, asthenekanem was used (only once all scripture) by the very articulate Paul to refer to a lack of confidence (mental weakness). Astheneia was used more than 15times to refer to anything but sickness and disease while Astheneo was used 17times to refer to sickness and not weakness.

If only we would learn to understand the writer.



Paul said infirmity of the flesh/body and not infirmity in the body/flesh. He meant he was weak, beaten, flogged badly with scars and marks all over his body etc. yet the Galatians didn't feel ashamed of him. They accepted his message.



He wasn't rejected or despised, that's what he said and NO he had no infection from his injuries. If a snake bite couldn't infect him, the beatings wouldn't too.



Finally!! A whiff of breakthrough! This is what I have been saying all along man. This was the infirmity of the flesh- his batterings, beatings, stonings due to the persecution he suffered. That's why he used astheneia and not astheneo. He was not SICK or DISEASED.



I am an Honest person and I need the Greek studies for clarity as most of the translators only understood the Greek language but not the Holy Spirit's.


Romans 8:26King James Version (KJV)
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

See the translators calling the Holy Spirit; the creator of heaven and earth; the first person in the Godhead to be introduced; the power of God; Author of the scriptures etc. an "it" and describing him as an "itself" simply because of the word Pneuma translated Spirit or Wind which seems impersonal.

No sir, I will use the Greek lexicon. And like Jesus and Paul, I will never be sick in my life!!! Amen.

I think you and I have discussed all there is to discuss on this particular issue and we will not convince each other otherwise so no need for me to offer a rebuttal.

Instead of both of us forming scholars here, lets encourage our readers use the resources avalaible online to check up these things and compare.

For "Astheneo",(Noun), http://biblehub.com/greek/770.htm

For "Astheneia",(Verb), http://biblehub.com/greek/769.htm

They'll see how these two words were used interchangeably to good effect. Even "Astheneo" could mean "poor"

Note: they both originate from "Asthenes"

Meanwhile I must commend the tone of this your post.

Cheers

mbaemeka: I wanted to ignore this, but the prospect of showing you how little you know was too tempting.

The word for "Infirmities of the flesh" as used here in Galatians 4, 2 Corinthians 11:30 and 2 Corinthians 12:10 is Astheneia. It means a weakness; want of strength; weakness of human nature. It was NEVER (I stress the NEVER) translated or referred to as a sickness or a disease in scripture. It was the same word used in Romans 8: 26. Tell us how you can fix sickness into that verse now let us see you try.


Romans 8:26King James Version (KJV)
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities sicknesses : for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.


We can tell so easily by reading the verses in Corinthians to know what Paul referred to as the things that caused the Infirmities of his body: reproaches, persecutions, distresses, trials etc. Paul is saying he was hungry, beaten, flogged, imprisoned and as such he was WEAK. In fact, vv12 of 2 Corinthians 12 talks about him still performing signs, wonders, mighty deeds etc while still WEAK. Abi don't you think he would have healed himself if he was sick?

And I know you will come back with "thorn in the flesh" by the messenger of satan. It is a figure of speech like "pain in the neck". Paul was saying Satan was responsible for all the persecutions, weaknesses, beatings etc. he faced and God told him that his strength will be made perfect by the persecutions. So Paul began to boast about it!

To help you since you would not study and will be employing underhand tactics to make me teach you, the word for sickness is Astheneo and was used 17 times in scripture to refer to it (few times to refer to physical break down due to overwork). This was the word used for Epaphroditus' case. Thank God Paul told us what caused in Philippians 3:30- for the work of Christ he was nigh unto death. Which simply means he overworked himself into getting sick and this was the same word used for Trophimus in 2 Timothy 4:20.

So Paul was not sick neither was he diseased. Trophimus and Epaphroditus were and we know why.

Please use another example to live in unbelief or save face and learn behind the scene so that you won't fall your hand on your thread.

I am really succumbing to your "truths". Trust me, I can do this to virtually everything you have said including telling us to suffer like Paul and the apostles but stay without the power for God didn't give us that one.

Ha ha ha ha ha!

@the bolded, i knew you are very vainglorious but You're also a liar. If you're not, tell us what was used in 1Tim 5:23 to describe Timothy's "infirmities"? Astheneia or Astheneo? Tell us and get shamed.

See the definition for "astheneia"

Strong's Concordance
astheneia: weakness, frailty
Original Word: ἀσθένεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: astheneia
Phonetic Spelling: (as-then'-i-ah)
Short Definition: want of strength, weakness, illness
Definition: want of strength, weakness, illness, suffering, calamity, frailty.

See definition for "astheneo"

Strong's #770: astheneo (pronounced as-then-eh'-o)

from 772; to be feeble (in any sense):--be diseased, impotent folk (man), (be) sick, (be, be made) weak.

If you were honest, you'd have known and admited that both can be used interchangeably and were indeed used interchangeably in scripture.

E.g astheneia for infirmity in John 5:5, 1Tim 5:23, diseases in Acts 28:9 and sickness in John 11:4 and astheneo for weak in 1Cor 8:12 and 2Cor 11:21

See the verse below. The narration there clearly shows Paul meant a bodily condition.

Galatians 4:13 KJV
Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.

Paul said he preached to them through the infirmity that was in his flesh. See the next verse. What would make a man loathsome, likely to be rejected and despised? Physical weakness or a sickness that could be revolting e.g a smelly sore or like the woman with the issue of blood?

Galatians 4:14 KJV
And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

The floggings, beatings, hunger and imprisonment that Paul received, couldnt have made him "so weak" to the point of possibly being despised and rejected by the Galatians unless you're telling us he got an infection from his injuries and I don't need to tell you that an infection is a sickness. In fact a very serious disease.

See when Paul was stoned, so badly that the people believed they had killed him

Acts 14:19-20 KJV
And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead. [20] Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe.

Yet the believers stood by him, not despising or rejecting his battered body.

If you're a honest person, you dont need Greek studies to understand these scriptures because any christian can be sick including you.

mbaemeka: I love how we started from "Jesus had no roof over his head" to "Foxes have holes. . " to "My younger brother also 'houses' his friends in my house. It doesn't make him a house owner. He rents a house at his university. That still doesn't make him a house owner.

If you agree Jesus didn't own 'a big fancy mansion' like some pastors claim, then we have no reason to argue on this issue. Even the mad man he cured had a 'place' he abode.

If this is the line you're taking, then there probably was no homeless person in Israel as at this time and we shouldn't be having this argument. If every 25 year old had a place of his to stay, then what's so special about Jesus having a place to house 2 others who also had their own place?"

And I am charged with this:

Ha ha ha ha ha! There's nothing more to say.

I too love how I started.

Oya, Let me laugh with you

mbaemeka: Like I said before alot of words and scriptures are being tossed around with little understanding. There are some basic things I would have thought you people that know more the Pastors that you libel would have known and if I start again you will meet me at some point and claim that's what you were referring to or agree with.

I didn't libel any pastor. I simply pointed out pastors that suffered and died from ill health.

To help you save face again I would ask you to go and Learn the 3 different words that some translators referred to as infirmities, afflictions and sicknesses. They do not all mean the diseases. For example in the account of Paul you referred to in Corinthians, he was not referring to any ailment or a disease but you would not know because you have not studied it and when I show it to you, you will turn around and act like you always did.

Quit the lies. Its not in your character to help anybody save face. You simply are overwhelmed by the truth.

Does this make you know Paul was sick?

Galatians 4:13-14 KJV
Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. [14] And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Keep trying to lie for Paul like he commissioned you to

As per all the mixtures of lies and misrepresentations about Oral Roberts, I leave you to believe what you want o jare. You will not travel to America to see the doctors report but if another person talks about going to Tanzania you would not ask him for doctors report instead you would call him a liar.

See one news report about the oral Roberts episode. Its a story Roberts family wouldn't deny.

http://amarillo.com/stories/1999/03/02/usn_LO0730.001.shtml

Keep living in denial. I'm even surprised you didn't question khulman's episode. Also, stop the 'Tanzanian ebola cure' lie, its too childish.

I am getting tired of the same old rehashed nonsense that pride would not let you admit to. Imagine seeing the 2 Corinthians 1:18-20 account by Paul concerning God's blessings and promises in Christ and then in turn asking if Paul didn't know about it when didn't "prosper" to you Or asking me about Timothy getting sick?

Why won't you get tired? Defending lies is always very tiring. So that scripture tells you Paul was reciting the promises in deut 28? If he was, why didn't he experience it?

I believe I have put enough truth here that will help anyone that is still in doubt and would leave the ignorant and egomaniacal naysayers in the dark. You needed to see me laughing here watching all of you fumble scriptures and try to spin it like you were in the know all along.

Congrats on your laughter party. You know very little about what truth is. The only thing you have in abundance are ad hominems and empty boastings.

I can count the amount of people that actually know scriptures in the letter and spirit on one hand (on NL) and none of them is in your camp. The quantity of ignorance here is frightening.

That means you're the holy spirit's auditor who helps him check up on word knowledge. Imagine you bringing Rom 3:27 into the discussion. So much for scriptural knowledge.

This is my last post on this thread. Let me do like bro Image123 and let you have the last word.

Cheers.

You're not letting me have the last word. You're simply succumbing to truth.

mbaemeka: Yes you are right that Eliphaz and not Job made the statements in Job 5. And NO, a thousand times NO! Not everything Eliphaz said was wrong. Same way not all Job said was correct e.g cursing the day he was born etc. God corrected not just Eliphaz and the rest he also corrected Job. What Eliphaz said in (Job 5:19,22) for example, were correct. We know the things that he said that were wrong because God said so. Eliphaz believed that God was punishing Job for not doing enough good, and Bildad thought Job was just whining because he wanted His wealth back. On the other hand, by justifying himself, Job was condemning God as being unjust. Elihu on the other hand was correct. In chapter 34 he confirmed the Lord’s inability to do wrong or pervert justice.

Then in chapter 38 when God Himself joined the conversation, we see that Job is neither given a bill of indictment nor a verdict of innocence, but his understanding of God was certainly brought into question. We can see all that.

How do you know which parts of their long speeches were acceptable to God and which were not? If God was displeased with their treatises, then its totally useless to teach Christian doctrine.

Job's 3 friends who spoke nonsense were Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite. The 4th speaker was Elihu and God didn't have a single problem with him.

Job said few wrong things and God pointed them out. For those 3, only a sacrifice could atone for all their misspeaking. They were too numerous.

The question I asked again is how did Job show his "implicit faith" in God? How didn't he waver? Is it similar to Abraham in Romans 4:18-23? Scripture too said Abraham didn't waiver and if Job did same he must have been confessing God's words rightly and giving thanks like Abraham did.

I don't think it should be difficult to give us the scripture that shows Job exuding faith that God would restore double fold blessing to him. If indeed such scriptures exist.

mbaemeka: Yes, God didn't commission me to suffer A.K.A be in poverty, be sick etc for the Gospel. God want's me to Prosper A.K.A be in health, peace, rich etc for the gospel. That's what I have always said, maybe my latter post just elucidated my position better to you.

So what qualifiers as the "sufferings" you agree a Christian can go through?

John 16 King James Version (KJV)
1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

3 And these things will they do unto you

Jesus had earlier on told them all that they would be killed. Then after his resurrection while talking to Peter he gives Peter a more vivid description of the way he would actually be killed. When Peter asked about John's (because Peter knew that Jesus had a special bond with John), Jesus said what is that to you if I say he will remain till I come? John, in his typical thoughtful and humble style said - "Jesus didn't say I would not die, he only said what if I say John will be here till I return?".

I have made my deductions from the afore and my logic is in order.

Of course you're free to make "your own deductions" from scripture. If we have 40,000 denominations worldwide preaching different things from the same bible, who has the right to stop you from creating yours?

Its your deduction alright howbeit, a totally false one.

As per that teaching about an "era" that's just plain rubbish. If you don't see people teleport, come back from the dead etc It's because people are not taught that these manifestations by the Spirit still happen. We have even seen some say that it ended with the apostles entirely while some say medical science has replaced it. The same Holy Spirit that was in Philip is in me, he can make me teleport if the need arises.

@the first bolded, means you need to do more.

@second bolded, hope u teleport soon.

I never said what Israel meditated on had to do with Psalms 1:1-3. I said the Psalmist taught the same thing that Joshua was taught by God years ago. Joshua had the books of Moses to meditate on, and as more books were added to the Torah the Jews had more books to meditate on.

OK.

Christ has redeemed us from receiving the blessings by conformance to the "laws". Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law. We can therefore take the blessings and run with it. That's what Paul taught Timothy and others.

2 Corinthians 1:18-20New International Version (NIV)

18 But as surely as God is faithful, our message to you is not “Yes” and “No.” 19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us—by me and Silas[a] and Timothy—was not “Yes” and “No,” but in him it has always been “Yes.” 20 For no matter how many promises God has made, they are “Yes” in Christ. And so through him the “Amen” is spoken by us to the glory of God.

Paul taught Timothy that God's promises (ALL OF THEM) are not some "yes" and some "no". It has ALWAYS been Yes. No matter how many promises God says yes to them in "Christ". That's why we SPEAK AMEN (I claim it) to the glory of God.

That's why I say- I will never be broke in my life; I Dwell in health; I cannot be sick; I prosper in all I do etc. I am claiming the blessings and promises. I am saying AMEN to them.

And I keep wondering why these "blessings" eluded Paul and the early Christians. Did their faith fail? If Paul taught Timothy to claim the blessings of deut 28, did they both forget?

Paul and timothy were sick, Paul wasn't prosperous. Was he not saying enough amen?

Sure you are right about Paul. He gave all he had to the preaching of the gospel. LOL @ John. Not with what you have seen above ^^ concerning the promises besides, this is John the Divine; full of the Holy Spirit. If he wished it for anyone, it must have been word-based.

John wished a friend good like you most likely have done today. Nothing more, nothing less. Thank God you at least agree John was making a good wish for his friend there.

If a Christian puts his fingers into fire it will burn him. If a Christian jumps up he will come down. If a sinner gives he will receive back. What happened to your definition of prosperity being not just about finances? How will the sinner gain access to the blessings of divine health? How will he gain access to the blessings of grace-unmerited favour?

That's why we said there are some principles a sinner can stumble unto by chance and they will benefit him. There are some he can only find by studying and meditating on the scriptures.

Do you know some sinners enjoy better health than some mega mog? The healthiest longest living folks are in atheist china and japan.

Of all the blessings you tout, the only one a sinner can't access without coming to Christ is salvation. Every other material or bodily benefit that Christians brag with today is are also enjoyed by unbelievers.

Being poor for the gospel is what Barnabas did. He gave all he had into the gospel and lived like he had nothing. The Macedonians above abounded in the grace of generosity for the gospel despite the fact that they had little and experienced trials. They gave their widows mite. That's what it means to be poor for the gospels sake.

Nope. The Macedonians gave out of their deep poverty is what the bible said. it didn't say they gave and became poor. See the scripture again

2 Corinthians 8:2 KJV
How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.

First off, death is referred to as the enemy. Secondly, it might interest you again to know that not all christians will die (so just keep that in perspective when you speak about death). Thirdly, Jesus has the keys of Hell and Death now so (for us christians) he reserves the right to call us home and he doesn't do it without our consent (he is that kind).

Sure we all know there'll be some folks alive when Christ returns in the air.

@the bolded, really? Did he ask for khulman's permission before calling her home?

As per labour in child birth, I can flood this thread with testimonies of Christian women that didn't experience such. It all boils down to how much of the word of God (and his promises) we have believed in and said "amen" to. That's why the accurate teaching of the word of God is required.

A christian can speak the word concerning his health and be in health but be stingy with his money and not prosper. The word of God doesn't work for you simply because you're christian. You have to personalize it- the just shall live by HIS OWN faith.

Are you a doctor? Are you married? Have you escorted your wife or a woman to the delivery ward before?

Let a doctor explain what happens during the expansion of the birth canal preparatory to childbirth. I know a lot about embellished testimonies my friend.

The Christians that were sending relief to Judea why didn't the famine affect them too? The famine was for the whole world. Challenges come to everyone, but how you respond to them matters. After all, the same "Credit crunch" that affected Bill Gates negatively made Warren Buffet the man with the most money in the world.

We can start small but we should not remain there- regardless of life's challenges. Jesus said we are in the world but not of the "masses". What affects the "masses" should not affect us. I remember when I was in the university and rumours will be flying around that only one student got an A in a particular course. I would always say "I know I am the one" even when I had other very intelligent Christians in my class. I virtually always ended up being the one. One day, someone said I was boasting and I showed him this:


Romans 3:27King James Version (KJV)
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

He started talking the same way too.

Someone who is talking faith cannot be boasting- in a nutshell.

Its interesting that you used warren buffet and bill gates as your examples and neither is christian and it proved you dont have to be christian to be successful or avoid problems. Also, except you're born a prince, you'll always start small. Whatever height you then get to might even be insignificant when measured against someone else. Poverty and wealth are very relative.

What will you say was responsible for the judeaen Christians suffering the famine more? Would you attribute it to their "faithlessness" or lack of "positively confessing" the word?

As per you university days, were you an academic failure before you became born again and started confessing good grades?

Concerning that scripture you put there, I'm happy to tell you it has no bearing or use to the discussion at hand. I'll simply pretend I didn't see it

mbaemeka: Candour,

Dr Kent's statement and Paul's are not the same. If a christian lives he lives for Christ. If a Christian dies he dies to be with Christ. We agree.

See Paul's statement on his infirmity that 'God didn't cure'

2 Corinthians 12:9 KJV
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

It was causing Paul pains but he refused to focus on it, rather he decided to be more faithful while even glorying in his infirmities. That was the same attitude Dr Kent showed.

Dr Kent said "help me be faithful in my illness" and I said God wants us faithful but not in illness for he wants us well.

Does God want us to have infirmities like the one Paul had?

Which brings me to the names you keep throwing at me namely: Kathryn khulman, Oral Roberts etc. Oral Roberts was 91 when he went to be with the Lord and I cannot remember him suffering any ailment. In fact, I saw him pray for Paul Crouch some months before he was announced to have passed (I mean Oral)

Secondly, in those months leading to when he left he on at least 3 different occasions said he would soon go. (I watched it myself on TBN) no hearsay. Let me use this opportunity to even speak a little about his life. Contrary to the lies about Mansions that satan-influenced fellows said he had he was being accomodated by Benny Hinn who also paid him a salary on monthly basis.

Oral Roberts had 2 major heart attacks that landed him in hospital. One was even a day after being prayed for on TBN (I think). It was so serious he lived with a pacemaker inserted to aid his heart. This is an open secret.

That he said he'll go 3 times in the months leading to his death at 91 tells us nothing. At that age, if he didn't say he'll go, what should we expect? That he'll keep coming for ever? All humans will go and if a 91 year old man isn't preparing and expecting to go, I wonder who should.

Also, on his financial life, do you know he raised $9m for an $8m hospital which he claimed if he doesn't build, God would call him home? Well it was a failed project eventually. Maybe he became bankrupt later that necessitated Benny Hinn's help, I can't say.

Oral Roberts also lost a son to suicide but it didn't deter his dedication to the things of God and I he is dearly beloved by me. No regrets whatsoever.

Very good attitude for a christian at the bolded. Bad things happen to even Christians but it shouldn't affect our faithfulness to God, shouldn't call for regrets and shouldn't make us that didn't get affected sneer at those who got affected as 'lacking faith' or 'walking in ignorance and darkness'.

"Those whose palm kernels are cracked for them by a benevolent spirit shouldn't forget to be humble" says an Igbo proverb. We can draw lessons from that.

So when I hear about various ailments that caused their deaths I just laugh because Satan has his media and the church of christ has hers. I don't take Satans seriously. I am that biased for the things of God.

If Kathryn khulman died due to any sickness she doesn't sink in my estimation. She was still a woman of God used by him in a mighty way. Elisha who enjoyed more miracles than his Mentor Elijah died due to sickness. (I know you may want to make reference to him). Well scripture says, at times he got angry and the anointing didn't flow until he was ministered to by a musician. It's possible he didn't cause it to flow at the point of his death. Much later a man was going to be buried and due to fear his Paulbearers tossed his body into Elishas grave. The dead man's body revived on contact with Elishas dry bones. That's how anointed Elisha was. Same goes for Kathryn and Mrs Kumuyi.

They are with the Lord and I am here to live by my own faith and you too should.

If one of those you term "faithless" and "walking in ignorance" had experienced this, would you have been as understanding? Its only a vain and cruel man that would mock a human being for succumbing to sickness and that is what you and WOF have been doing to others since. You enjoy mocking those whom life has dealt harshly with.

Its the penchant of WOF for lying and living in denial that is the issue here and that is what is being mocked: the lies. If Elisha with all the miracles God did through him could fall sick so much that he died, then who are the modern wanabees feeling like gods? Do you think Elisha never saw psalm 82 throughout his life? Khulman died in 1976 from complications resulting from open heart surgery and it showed how frail and human she and the rest of us are.

Biofun Kunuyi died of cancer in 2010 but she isn't in the sane category with khulman because never for once did she or her husband preach godhood of believers or that a Christian cannot be sick.

Bad things happen to people including Christians and Kathryn khulman et al were no exceptions.

mbaemeka: Don't be incorrigible, learn to take corrections when you are wrong or to save face, you should ignore the issue entirely.

Try and keep out the pettiness and silly patronage. If the chat is getting to you, then quit. You've shown you do not admit mistakes but I've refrained from using sly words on you. I advice you show some maturity.

I never said here that he had a mansion and housed many people. I never even insinuated so. I said when Andrew and Phillip visited him he accomodated them which means it was spacious enough to do so.

My younger brother also 'houses' his friends in my house. It doesn't make him a house owner. He rents a house at his university. That still doesn't make him a house owner.

If you agree Jesus didn't own 'a big fancy mansion' like some pastors claim, then we have no reason to argue on this issue. Even the mad man he cured had a 'place' he abode.

Speaking of his place, Peter and Matthew too had theirs but had to leave it in order to follow him through his journeys. That's what Jesus did.

Christ had the house before he began his ministry. It was unusual for a Jewish man of the time (aged 25-30) to still be with his parents and Jesus was no different. All historical evidences prove that he began his ministry at Age 30 so between 25 till when he began his ministry he must have been working and living somewhere. When he started ministry work he left his job and his house (when he wasn't in Capernaum of course) Period.

If this is the line you're taking, then there probably was no homeless person in Israel as at this time and we shouldn't be having this argument. If every 25 year old had a place of his to stay, then what's so special about Jesus having a place to house 2 others who also had their own place?

And yes the 2 men didn't follow Jesus. They gave excuses that will only require one deduction, especially since Jesus made the vv 62 reference. And No, he wasn't only teaching the man even if he was directing the statement to him. He said it to the hearing of his disciples from whom Luke could have learned the story.

I will still respond to your other posts when I am with a better device.

You say it like you were there or scriptures recorded that anywhere. See the scripture again. Focus on the bolded

Luke 9:59-62 KJV
And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. [60] Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. [61] And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house. [62] And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Its actually easier and better to believe they both went than to say otherwise if you consider that bolded portion. If the man still remained adamant, the scriptures would have recorded it. Whether he spoke it in public or not, he was simply letting the man know why it wasn't right to go back.

Joagbaje: If you have proof.

And what is the proof that pastor Chris has for saying "some called themselves for personal reasons"?

^^^
All John 1:37 onwards tell us is that Christ had a place to stay and no one has said that Christ slept in the open (though I won't put it beyond my Lord to do that sometimes). WOF claim Christ owned a big house where he housed guests like you insinuated here, and there's nothing in the whole of the bible that remotely suggests that. They say that to justify their ostentatiousness and addiction to materialism.

In fact your analysis of Israel's geography proved Christ had no need for his own house. If he spent that long in transit due to all the places he preached in (no chariots), why would he indulge in the waste of maintaining a house he didn't need most of the time? Christ borrowed boats, a donkey etc, whats so big about concluding he would also have graciously accepted lodging from his family or other kind hearted people?

Also the bible didn't say those 2 didn't follow Jesus. Thats your idea. The statement in vs 62 was directed to one of the men not all the disciples or multitude. See the scripture

Luke 9:62 KJV
And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Very educative.

Thanks

Joagbaje: He hAs always taught in this direction . I just listened to a message he titled " STOP WICKEDNESS" and in that message he adressed fraud , criminalIty and criminal tendencies . He said if you cheat at work or business you will have doors of blessing shut against you .

Even in his teachinsg with his pastors . They have instructions on christian character and wArnings against negative attitude etc .and being example to the flock . Every christian will definitely not make the rapture pastors inclusive .

In the last communion service he said a christian who deliberately stay at home watching movie on a Sunday when he ought to be in church will miss rapture if it takes place at that hour.





It's different . If I say pastor so and so will go to hell, I have judged and condemned . We don't judge people . We can only judge on condemned wrong doing .

I can tell you what you did is wicked (action) but not "YOU ARE A WICKED MAN" that's condemnation.

We can judge condemn action but not a person

OK. At least no one will accuse me of "touching the Lord's anointed" when next I declare the truth that plenty pastors steal church money and plenty 'pastors' open 'churches' strictly as a business venture.

mbaemeka: It is on record here and (repeatedly too) that I never refuted the aspect of suffering for the gospel. I am against teachings of sicknesses and poverty (that is unrelated to the gospel) as what that suffering refers to and I am not going to refrain from it as it is very scriptural.

@the bolded, you did. Your acquiescence was an afterthought. Once again, see what you said initially

mbaemeka: God told Paul he was to suffer for the gospel. God didn't tell mbaemeka that he was to suffer for the gospel. God told me to prosper for the gospel. Amen.

Jesus promised them so and some scripture suggests that he may have absolved John from it (John 21:19-23). Bible History let's us know that John was placed in boiling cauldron for hours but he was unhurt and as a result was given the appellation- Saint John "the Divine" and was banished to the Island of Patmos from where he wrote the book of Revelations.

That scripture never suggested such. Its a figment of the imagination of those promoting that idea. There was never a time Christ said John was exempted from death. His life is a testament to God's sovereignty. God simply decided to keep him, maybe to write Revelations. We might never be sure.

Also John's survival of the boiling cauldron is part of why that era was special. Philip teleporting. Paul rising up after being "stoned to death" etc. They indeed did spectacular things.

It might interest you to know that God and not Joshua said that. Also your interpretation of the "book of the law" to refer to the law(s) of Moses is also grossly flawed. The law ALWAYS referred to ALL the books of Moses and wasn't limited to it. As more books from the prophets were given they too were added into the Law. In fact, when the apostles began teaching the gospel of Jesus they did so using the Law which was actually the Pentateuch, Prophets and the Psalms or writings.


John 10:34King James Version (KJV)
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Jesus referred to the book of Psalms as the law.

That aside, the Law of Moses comprised of 5 Books which included Deuteronomy (and Chapter 28) which was God's promise to them concerning the blessings in general and in this case prosperity. It was not a works-based admonition because those blessings still apply to the church.

Again (and by so doing Trustman can get my responses to his post) there is no separation or demarcation between the Mouth and Meditate as was used in Joshua 1:8. The Hebrew for the word meditate is Hagah and it means: silent whispering; muttering; talking; roaring. It refers to using the mouth to whisper, mutter, talk and roar the words. This is what we refer to as speaking the word. The same admonition was referred to in Jeremiah with the same word "Hagah" and in Psalms 1:1-3. If you even checked the marginal of a regular KJV they would place an alphabet aside the word meditate and refer to it as a form of talking while cross-referencing you to the book of Joshua 1:8

Also the Verse like I said before was Crystal clear- meditate on the word day and night so that you may observe to do all that is written. You will make your way prosperous and you will have good success. The observing to do was connected to the meditating and this was averred by Jehovah. PLEASE believe him.

Paul taught Timothy about the same things and the Greek for the word Meditate can be understudied too.


1 Timothy 4:15King James Version (KJV)
15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

Here, Paul says if you meditate on the word and give yourself wholly to it the evidence will be clear to all.

If you had done a good study you would have known all this.

You're correct that God spoke there. However its actually wrong to say when he spoke there, he meant more than the books of the law Moses compiled which is also known as the Pentateuch. Most of the psalms were written by David and he didn't surface until almost 500 years after this statement so it should be very obvious that the laws Isreal meditated on and practiced to get good success all those 500 years had nothing to do with Psalms 1:1-3.

Also by the time Christ walked the earth, more and more things had been added like you said and it had even started being referred to as "the law and the prophets" so he could refer to even Psalms as the law. Distilling from all these books is what gave Isreal of today their 613 laws.

It should interest you that in the prosperity scriptures of deut 28, success was clearly predicated on conformance to all the laws Moses gave and the summary of these laws started from deut 4:44 and ends in deut 27:26 which reads as follows

Deuteronomy 27:26 KJV
Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

Deut 28:1-13 gives the blessings for conformance while deut 28:14-68 gave the curses and consequences of deviating from these laws and Isreal duly got both at different times.

These laws are not what Paul asked Timothy to meditate on and the profiting he mentioned had nothing to do with money.

The prosperity the Psalmist referred to is Prosperity, Period.

As per the words of Agur he is free to express himself as such. Abraham and Isaac were more prosperous and their prosperity didn't make them deny God or inveigle his name. We should learn to divide the word of truth properly so as not to be found as poor workmen.

Paul prospered in the gospel. He wasn't prosperous in financial terms. Prosperity isn't always about having material or financial goods.

If Agur is free to express himself, then John too was free to wish his friend prosper and be in health as in 3John 2. John wrote a letter to his friend and made a good wish for him. God didn't speak there and ask anyone to make it a doctrine.

There are principles that God has established on earth- laws, if you please. If anyone (Saint or sinner) is found observing them they will receive the results of such actions. One of them is giving. If a sinner has a habit of giving he will always have and if a christian is selfish he will always lack. That's what Jesus meant.

Some Atheists help more people than many selfish Christians who do not give. It is no surprise that some of them prosper. It is a principle same with Studying for exams. If an unbeliever studies he will excel and if a christian doesn't he won't. That's why Christians are admonished to meditate on the word. As we do so we begin to "do" all that is written e.g Give, study etc.

If they're rules for life and it works for even atheists, why make it look like it only works for Christians? So do you agree that a sinner who gives but mocks God, sits in the seat of the seat of the scornful etc will still prosper as long as he's obedient to these giving laws?

Does that mean Psalm 1:4-6 is suspended by these immutable laws?

Mr A doesn't have money to pay his rent yet he is a tongue-talking Christian. Of course, he will not give anything to the work of the ministry because he is poor and has nothing to give. Mr B has money to pay his rent in Ikoyi but decides to live in Obalende so he can have something tangible to give towards God's work. Mr B should be commended and Mr A should meditate on the word and prosper so he can be like Mr B. That's the 'contradiction' I was trying to make and that's what I meant by "I too suffer lack from time to time because of a need or the other in God's house". That's what the early Christians did.

There's no basis for saying the Christians became poor for the gospel sake except you're saying they were prevented from making money because of persecution. At least this was the case of the Macedonian Christians

2 Corinthians 8:2 KJV
How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.

As for working, making money to be able to assist the needy, them I'm in agreement. The scripture below tells us that

Ephesians 4:28 KJV
Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

How could it possibly be? Sicknesses, poverty and death came as a result of the entrance of sin. If Sin as a nature is taken away then the consequences should have been too. Now if people who have their sins taken away still find themselves sinning "occasionally" does it mean the sin wasn't taken away to begin with? Whose duty is it to stay away from sin? Do you think it is possible to stay away from the acts of sin without the concomitant consequences?

Physical death also came as a result of sin, has death been stopped? Pain and labour during pregnancy also came as a result of sin, have christian women stopped screaming of pain when dilating for child birth? How come hardened sinners who have not yet had their sin problem dealt with prospering and having "laws of giving" work for them?

I believe I have explained what the early church did. They were "poor for the gospel's sake" and not "poor for the sake of life's vicissitudes". The latter represents the dangerous group. A poor man cannot help himself and will become a burden to others; a poor man's wisdom will be despised; the rich will always rule over the poor; the gospel will not move swiftly without the prosperity of the proponents; Jesus' death made us rich etc.

Why do you think Satanic songs do better than Word-based songs? Sinners will always use their prosperity to propagate what they believe in, and the church is admonished to do same.

You're wrong. The Christians in Judaea became candidates for charity because of the problems associated with living on this cursed earth

Acts 11:28-30 KJV
And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar. [29] Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea: [30] Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.

Bad things happen, and it happens to Christians too. Pls stop disparaging folks who have been dealt harshly by life. You mock their creator so doing. There is no where the bible said or insinuated that "they were dangerous to the gospel" and you have no right to say that

If any gospel music doesn't sell, its because the world doesn't like to hear the truth. Theres nothing to worry about because the world never likes truth. I'll be more worried about a gospel CD that can even serve as an alternative dancehall item.

I am eschewing the urge to make a very long post. Let me end here and continue on a separate post.

I understand

mbaemeka: Don't call Jesus a liar, call those who sold you the lie that Jesus was homeless liars. Jesus had a house and he lived in Capernum.

John 1:37-39King James Version (KJV)
37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.

38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?

39 He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour

Jesus was able to house Phillip and Andrews in the place where he dwelled.

Galilee was a big city in then Palestine, same with Judea, Samaria, Decapolis etc. Galilee housed towns such as Chorazin, Magdala, Cana, Capernum, Nazareth, Nain etc. Same way Judea encompassed towns such as Hebron, Bethlehem, Bethany, Jerusalem etc. Jesus for example was born in Bethlehem but was taken to Egypt and then brought back to Nazareth (because the new Herod wanted him dead as well in Judea). He was brought up in Nazareth with his folks but when he grew up he moved to Capernum.

I said all that to say this, when studying the map (as can be Googled) it is clear that if anyone is making a journey from Galilee to Judea they would have to pass Samaria or take a circuitous route to bypass it (which is longer). The Jews of Jesus' day had issues with the Samaritans and many of them took the latter option but in Jesus' case he decided to use the Samaritan route.

The distance was quite long and he needed a place to rest before continuing the Journey but the Samaritans refused him a place to stay seeing that he was a Jew and was heading to Jerusalem in Judea. That's why James offered that they called down fire from heaven to kill them to which Jesus rebuked him. It was while passing the villages in Samaria that a man asked to follow Jesus where he was going to and then Jesus replied- "foxes have holes, birds have nest but the son of man has no where to lay his head". The son of man had no where to lay his head in Samaria.

I am not the Ignorant one.

So you could actually decode from John 1:37 onwards that Jesus OWNED a house?

You explanation comes from Luke's account of this episode so I'll take the verses that dealt with it

Luke 9:57-62 KJV
And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. [58] And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. [59] And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. [60] Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. [61] And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house. [62] And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

See all the bolded portions. 3 men wanted to go with him but only 1 went back when he heard about "having no place to lay his head". In fact to prove your thesis wrong, it was the very man that indicated "readiness to go withersoever" with the Lord, indicating distance or location wasn't his problem. What he couldn't stand was not having a sure place to lay his head. People in those times trekked long distances so that wasnt the problem. The other two had excuses too which Christ dealt with.

You conclusion that "its because he had no place to lay his head in Samaria" is very wrong and misleading because the man was ready to go beyond Samaria, in fact he was ready to go "withersoever"

- [s]You can help by teaching them that God doesn't want them poor and has made provision through his word for them to prosper.[/s]
- You can help them by giving them aides like start-up money, education, provisions, a job etc

The remaining part of the quote is commendable

The healing school is not for ONLY christians. It is a means to convince Naysayers, scoffers, atheists that God's power is real and active till date. What words may not be able to do, the tangible power and demonstration of it many times does. And no, Christians should not fall sick like ANY other person for they are members of Christ's body; his flesh and his bones!! That is why I (for example, cannot be sick). Jesus took upon himself all my sicknesses and diseases and died with it on the cross. Then he woke up to a newness of life (that is not subject to sicknesses or diseases) and told me I too could walk in the same newness of life by his spirit.

James was aware of this that is why he asked- "is there ANY sick among you?" and not "since there are many sick among you". He used the conditional phrase "is there" because it had to be an aberration. The major reason many of God's children still suffer sicknesses is IGNORANCE and nothing more. "they know not, neither will they understand, they walk on in Ignorance" because God through Jesus, has already taken away ALL our infirmities.

And you keep shying away from giving the answer to why organisers of healing schools like John G Lake, his wife, Kathryn khulman, Oral Roberts etc all battled sickness and died from it.

Were they walking in ignorance too? At least it would prove that "some God's generals" also walked in ignorance and in darkness.

The doctor spoke according to the knowledge that he had. A man said to Jesus- "if you are willing, you can make me whole" Jesus replied "I am willing". Then later he said he only does the works that he saw his father do which means God is in the business of healing his children. When Dr. Kent comes to this knowledge he would see that saying "help me be faithful, even in my illness" was redundant, for God wanted him well.

What will happen to the "elders" in the book of James when they get sick? Who will pray for them?

I think Dr Kent in saying that was in perfect harmony with scriptures.

Romans 14:8-9 KJV
For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. [9] For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

1 Thessalonians 5:10-11 KJV
Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. [11] Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

Paul was sick, Timothy was sick, Epaphroditus was sick, Trophimus was sick. These were all elders in the faith. Whom do you think prayed for them?

There's no extra exegesis to this. Satan approached God because of Job; God let Satan afflict Job with death, disease and poverty; God told Satan that Job would not budge; Job held onto his belief in God; God restored Jobs blessings two-fold. Period.

The question is how did Job maintain his faith in God? Job knew that God [b]will deliver him from 6 troubles and even 7 and no evil will touch him and Job said it (Job 5:19)[/b], he knew he would laugh at destruction and famine and be unafraid of evil and he said it vv.22. Job was doing what Hebrews 10:23 taught us to do- hold on to the confessions of our faith without wavering because God who made the promise is faithful. He was displaying faith and PATIENCE and therefore he obtained the promises of God. (Hebrews 6:12) There is nothing random about how God acts. That's why he gave us his word to go by while the world grope in darkness.

@the bolded, Job didn't say that. Eliphaz did and it was part of the misrepresentations that made God get angry with him and his 2 friends. If you wish to know, Eliphaz started talking in Job 4:1 and continued till Job 5:27, before Job replied him in Job 6. Meanwhile, see God's conclusion about what Eliphaz and his 2 friends had been saying.

Job 42:7-8 KJV
And it was so , that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath . [8] Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

Their conclusion was that a righteous man never has calamities so Job was unrighteous hence his problems and this made God displeased with them.

If Job had expected a restoration of double, he would never had cursed the day he was born. He was in agony if spirit and body all through that episode but he never doubted God's faithfullness in the midst of it all. His implicit faith in God never wavered like his wife would have wished.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for; the evidence of unseen realities.

John D. Rockefeller, a Baptist Christian, believed this, gave tithes and was found always saying that his prayer was to give 100,000 USD to Charity and to live till he was 100 years old. Before he died he gave over 100 Million dollars to charitable works and he slept just before his 98th birthday. He was atleast 30 times richer than Zuckerberg. His life is a testimony.

I hope this post answers Trustman's too.

Thank God for John D Rockefeller. He was a shrewed, smart and hardworking businessman and it showed in his achievements. Thank God he was a christian too.

Yooguyz: If I read it correctly, he didn't call anybody's name.I don't think he's judging any1, he's only stating a bible fact.

OK. Thanks. At least your response shows he actually said it. I really doubted it when I first read it.

So I won't be mobbed next time I decide to state this 'bible fact'.

Joagbaje: How much of the church and reaching do you know? Many of you only know the rumors your friends circulate . The man of God teaches the whole counsel of God . And his teachings have been consistent over the years

Haba, egbon, with you here to teach us your doctrines, who needs pastor Chris?

Are you telling me he actually said the below?

"Many pastors will go to hell for not obeying God, some are not called by God, some just called themselves for their personal reasons, some are in the ministry to serve their senses”.

I thought your creed has always been "not to judge another man's servant"? If indeed he said that, who gave him the right to? Have you forgotten "touch not my anointed"?

I'm not trying to castigate him, but considering how you in particular castigate any and everybody who says something similar, its surprising you're attacking me for believing this statements credited to him isn't true.

I doubt he said that. The philosophy of his church doesn't support such blanket condemnation so I'll take this with a pinch of salt

mbaemeka: The greatest challenge we are faced with is the presence of ignorant folks that have arrogated the right to pick and choose what they think is demonic and what is not. For some of these ignorant folks if it matches their experiences it is truth (regardless of it is word-based or not) and if it doesn't match their experiences (even if it is very word-based) it is demonic.

While i think we've said all there is to say on this issue, its important to note that both divides are guilty of this idea. In fact you said something along this line that is the below

mbaemeka: God told Paul he was to suffer for the gospel. God didn't tell mbaemeka that he was to suffer for the gospel. God told me to prosper for the gospel. Amen.

Before making the adjustment below some posts ago

mbaemeka: I also believe in suffering for the gospel but maybe not as some of you would have us believe. Indeed, I too suffer lack from time because of one need or the other in God's house.

We all keep growing everyday

We are only faced with one mission and that is to show them as much of the word of God as possible and pray that the Holy Spirit; the master teacher, will help convey these truths to them and if not, that the other folks whose faiths might be shaky would not be swayed by their deception and gross ignorance.

There are things we will not understand till we meet Christ in glory and in incorruption. This includes the mega MOGs'. Moses told the Israelites this much

Deuteronomy 29:29 KJV
The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

We all including you and all mog must know this. For instance, how do you explain all the disciples dying violent deaths except John?

Joshua 1:8 was very instructive. It teaches that we are to keep speaking the word of God consistently- every day and night so that we would observe to do all that is written therein. It says that by so doing 'we' and not 'God' will make our way prosperous and then have good success.

Merely looking at the trail of events shows where the cart is and where the horse should be. First, we Speak the words. Next, the speaking causes us to observe what is written (e.g being diligent, working hard, praying etc). And then by so doing we make our way prosperous and we experience good success.

Joshua didn't say "word of God". He said "book of the law"

Joshua 1:8 KJV
This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

This scripture speaks exclusively to the Jews because it talks about obeying the laws of Moses diligently otherwise there would he punishments. It was a works based admonition. Does any Christian observe and obey the laws of Moses carefully and diligently today?

It is very clear that the speaking of the word precedes the hardwork as against the "speaking the word, confessions or faith doesn't make one successful. . .plain hardwork does" as these ignoramuses would have us believe. Also interesting is the fact that these notion isn't singular all through scripture and was repeated ad nauseam almost verbatim from the OT to the NT. It therefore beggars belief that some would call it a new age teaching and even go even further to call it demonic.

In Psalms 1:1-3, The very same teaching is expressed in clear words- the speaking of the word yields the observance which in turn yields the prosperity. The Psalmist even makes a stack comparison between the believer and the unbeliever in this instance and even brazenly declares that the unbeliever will not act so and thereby not experience it (vv.4). So we are forced to ask ourselves who to believe: the word or the ignoramuses- and of course, your guess is as good as mine.

What is the prosperity the psalmist was talking about there? Is it the same thing like what the world (and the modern church) call prosperity today?

What do you make of this scripture below?

Proverbs 30:7-9 KJV
Two things have I required of thee; deny me them not before I die: [8] Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me: [9] Lest I be full, and deny thee , and say, Who is the Lord ? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain .

Do you think the writer was speaking faithless words?

Also, What does Christ mean by this?

Matthew 5:45 KJV
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Does God discrimate in the sending of his blessings to the earth and the peoples on it? Methinks this explains why even hardened atheists enjoy the prosperity and riches which the 'church' is chasing madly after today.

On the notion of wealth, these ignoramuses claim "there is nothing wrong with a poor christian; the only thing that is wrong is a stingy church". While I agree with the latter aspect of the sentence, I beg to differ with the first and that is because it is not scriptural. A poor christian is as much as dangerous as a sinful one and the reason is simple- they act as though Christ died for nothing. Of course, it is possible for one to live as though poor because of the gospel. That is commendable and similar to the decisions of bulk of the early Christians. But it is a lie for anyone to claim that God makes anyone poor as a way to test them. That is very unscriptural and demonic.

You call people ignoramuses but you make some ignorant contradictions in your own post. Contrast the statement in black with the one in blue. How do they agree? How did the early Christians 'live as though they were poor'? The scripture even records that those in Macedonia who gave, also had deep poverty.

2 Corinthians 8:2 KJV
How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.

What is wealth? How do you measure it?

What is poverty? How do you measure it?

How do you classify the early Christians?

I would also not agree with the notion that God makes some people people poor to test them.

God has given us his word to go by. He has told us what to expect and what to reject out-rightly. We know that poverty, diseases and sicknesses are not from God same way we know sin is not from him. The same way we are taught to flee from sin is the same way we are to flee from the consequences of sin of which poverty, diseases and death are 3 of the chief consequences.

We were asked to flee from sin, not poverty, diseases and death because no human being needs to be told to flee from poverty, diseases and death. Its inbuilt in us all. All humans are wired to hate them. Christians, Muslims and atheists all hate these three phenomena. Sin isn't in the same class because the natural man loves to sin. Sin is 'pleasurable'. Infact the sons of Adam are wired to enjoy sin.

Pls don't equate them to each other or put them in the same class for that is misleading.

Without a doubt the NT does mention that a christian could be poor but not that the Christian SHOULD be- it is a matter of choice. Lazarus (who wasn't a Christian at the time Jesus spoke of him) was poor and remained poor in the eyes of the rich man even while at Abraham's bossom. The rich man that died and went to hell asked Abraham to send Lazarus to dip his hand into water and let him get a taste of it. It is actually laughable how the rich man didn't ask Abraham to do so himself, instead he asked him to tell Lazarus- the same poor man Lazarus that he knew while on earth .

@the bolded is all the truth we need to know. A Christian could indeed be poor and no where in the bible is it remotely suggested that such is "dangerous to the gospel". That is at best a vain statement and at worst a horribly deceptive lie. If we agree with the quote, honesty demands we refer to the early Christians whom you said decided to be poor for the gospel as "dangerous to the gospel they worked tirelessly to propagate".

Also, no where does the bible teach that a christian should be poor neither has anybody said so on this thread. If anyone has said that, then he's totally wrong. If none has, then that statement is very cheap blackmail. What I believe this thread has said is to stop despising or looking down on the poor and to avoid statements like "the poor is dangerous to the gospel".

The rich man referred to Abraham as father and only an insane man will send his father on such an errand. He rightly chose Lazarus who could be an equal or subordinate. It wasn't because he thought Lazarus was the poor one. In fact, if at that stage, he still saw Lazarus as poor, then we know what an irredeemable and deluded clown he was. The conclusion you drew that he still saw Lazarus as that is strictly your personal opinion and has no basis in scriptures.

Speaking of Jesus, he was not poor as some of these ignoramuses assert neither did he refer himself as so. He had a house (John 1:37), and was responsible for feeding so many people during his stay on earth. He paid his taxes as and when due and he had a viable means of livelihood and so did his other disciples.

Pls stop calling people ignoramuses when you clearly display ignorance yourself. John 1:37 NEVER said Jesus owned a house. Otherwise we might be tempted to call Christ a liar for saying the below

Matthew 8:20 KJV
And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Certainly, he identified with the poor and encouraged that they should be helped even as his disciples continued to teach so. I am aware of a lot of charitable works that many of today's churches are involved in to help the poor. Some of these works make the state appear incompetent and we are admonished as christians to support instead of defame them as some ignorant folks have done to their own peril.

Of Jesus NEVER taught anyone that the "poor christian was dangerous to the gospel" neither did the apostles. Why would they, When they knew the inequality in the world were we dwell and how the greedy rich always want to corner the resources of their countries for themselves, families and cronies? Mankind hasn't changed and won't till Christ comes back.

The issue is how can you truly help somebody when you actually despise and look down on him?

Another worrisome idea being peddled amongst these ignorant folks is the "many Christians were sick" doctrine. That is an outright lie and an insult to the cross of Jesus. Indeed, the notion of sicknesses was expected to be an anomaly that James had to ask the brethren if any sick person was still amongst them. Then he recommended the use of the prayer of faith by the elders. The isolated instances of Timothy and Epaphroditus only shows us the importance of proper hygiene even as we live by faith, for we are not ignorant of the devices of the devil.

Of course many Christians fall sick. Its not a doctrine, its simple fact. Otherwise you'll not even be promoting a "healing school". What we say is that Christians can fall sick even like any other person unlike people who claim "i cannot be sick". When Christians pray for healing like James admonished, it should be with the belief that the sovereign God will answer. God never promised that any christian wont be sick but even in sickness, God still remains faithful and we should be too. The Ebola afflicted doctor said as much

"As I lay in bed in Liberia for the following nine days, getting sicker and weaker each day, I prayed that God would help me be faithful, even in my illness,” he said.“And I prayed that in my life or in my death that he would be glorified. I did not know then, but have learned since, that there were thousands, maybe even millions of people around the world praying for me throughout that week and even till today.“I cannot thank you enough for your prayers and your support, but what I can tell you is that I serve a faithful God who answers prayers." - Dr Kent Brantly

Speaking of Job, his life's testimony is ample proof that God can use any seemingly unfortunate situation to bring forth his goodness as long as we stay true to our faith in him- by speaking and acting his word. Job's patience and faith exemplifies exactly what Paul taught in Hebrews 6:12 and that is exactly what we endeavor to teach others as against the "your reward is ONLY in heaven gospel" that some try to sell.

@the first bolded- true. @the second bolded- false. Job was trying to prove his righteousness to his friends and God. in fact God wasn't pleased with the idea of Job proving his righteousness and faithfulness. See what God told him

Job 40:8 KJV
Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

See Job's response to God's challenge

Job 42:3, 6 KJV
Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. [6] Wherefore I abhor myself , and repent in dust and ashes.

Job was restored simply because of God's goodness and mercies which he even shows to unrepentant atheists today though they vehemently deny him.

From the foregoing we can tell that even though life or the devil can throw different challenges at us all regardless of our faiths. We are responsible for the way we choose to react to the challenges. While some pretend that they leave everything in God's sovereign hands; we can tell how feigned such acts are as we see this same lot talk about how plain hard work overrides the meditation of God's word. For others, they have known to rightfully divide the word and thereby knowing which situations require praying, using the name of Jesus, speaking the word or letting them go with the consciousness that they are already more than conquerors through it all. And in each situation this group always gives the glory and thanks to God through Jesus- the author and finisher of faith.

Irrespective of the prevailing situation and while a christian takes steps and make efforts to remedy it, he MUST never lose sight of the eternal faithfulness of God. An unbeliever reads of the deaths of the early Christians and concludes God is powerless. A christian reads about it and glorifies God that these faithful people were so grounded in the faith that nothing could shake their commitment. An unbeliever sees the carnage and atrocities against Christians in Iraq, northern Nigeria etc and concludes that Jesus is dead. A believer sees and hears of it and realises that the end is indeed near exactly as Christ prophesied.

God remains God and faithful irrespective of the situation and the perspective from which we judge the situation.

In conclusion, the obvious distinction between these Christians who act their faiths and the ignoramuses is that the former have believed and meditated so much on the word of God that the results are already evident in their lives-they prosper, dwell in health, heal the sick, feed the poor and show forth the fruits of the spirit- love, joy, peace etc. While the latter, rationalize the word so much that they have no faith and therefore do not act on the word. They in its stead, house bitterness, envy, jealousy and hatred for the former just like Joseph's brothers did him. They are required for the formers promotion and advancement (albeit oblivious to them).

Everybody uses 'faith' today that its almost difficult to decipher who talks of bible faith. The Chinese by 'faith' and belief built their country from the ruins Mao Zedong met to the superpower they are now. So too UAE.

With 'faith' and some genius, Mark Zuckerberg, a young Jewish atheist built Facebook and became a billionaire in less than 10 years from practically nothing. He simply believed he could do it.

The new age practitioners preach 'faith' which enables them do seemingly miraculous things and experience wonderful achievements.

What the bible calls faith indeed isn't the same as these and its imperative we study to really know and understand it.

Gombs: Jesus made an illustration of what a thief does, and what he came to do.... now, how does that amount to him calling the devil names? And father of lies, yeah, Just as God is the father of light, these are qualities both exhibit. Remember Satan lied in the beginning of time! He actually started lies. So, yeah, u can call the devil what the Bible depicts of him.

OK so I'm allowed to use liar on Satan when illustrating abi?

Good.

Korah spoke out, he accused Moses of tyranny, u knew how he ended!
Remember Saul and David? Why didn't the latter speak out?

Than speak out online and offline, why not speak out In your closet, on your knees? Which seems more effective? Speaking out online looks so?

Gombs, you of all people should know the difference between law and grace. There's a difference in the relationship between spiritual leaders of Isreal and the nation from that existing in the body of Christ.

Do you have any example of the korah incident under grace? Or you think as upright ad Paul was, he wasn't insulted?

Hahahahahah, Candour, if u found ur pastor in a bar with ladies, you are in no place to call him names nor judge him, for he is not under ur authority, and as in the op, they carry the authority of God. Remember David refused killing Saul even when Saul was totally way off, why? Because David knew better, he said how can he touch the Lord's anointed. Another time he killed some folks who laid hands on God's anointed.

To be serious, I won't say anything though I'll let him know I saw him. Where he'll not find it funny is if he's a serial carrier of members of the choir and pastoral care unit. He'll know we are equally priests to God and equal joint heirs with Christ.

Whose eye? How large was his congregation? Now, assuming 1 of his members were here, and did change, what happens to the other 10, 000 plus non members who you've succeeded in dowsing their faith in the church just because u r 'trying' to save others!? The insults the body of Christ would receive because u tried to save others, a ministry u took upon urself?

On this particular rev king issue, the police already did the work the church was meant to do and the consequences on our christian witness is worse as our hypocricy and penchant for cover up was displayed for the world to see. Will CAN and PFN say they had no inkling?

What if you prayed before now? You knw what difference we could have made if just 2 Christians pray earnestly for pastor's they know are in err? Pastors like Rev King! But folks, Christians were the ones on NL nailing him. You inclusive! You know how many folks may have given up oj the faith because of the 'speaking up'?

https://www.nairaland.com/1413724/touch-not-anointed#17704916

Rev king isn't a pastor my friend. He's a deluded devil incarnate and hardened criminal and murderer. Did you hear of him being remorseful?

Sorry abeg. I couldn't hold it.

So Jesus never knew they would spring up? And hence he did not sanction every legal method to stop them before they destroy souls?

Don't mind me. That was tongue in cheek. You know Christ didn't also warn us of cigarette smoking? I'm sure if they had invented it in his time on earth, he'd have given us his opinion. So also I doubt people like rev Jim Jones were visible when Christ walked the earth.

Hahahahahah, Martin Luther was nothing like what NLders do here

Hmm see Gombs!! Martin Luther did worse. Let me give u snippets

the Church of Rome, formerly the most holy of all Churches, has become the most lawless den of thieves, the most shameless of all brothels, the very kingdom of sin, death, and hell; so that not even antichrist, if he were to come, could devise any addition to its wickedness.

The Pope is a mere tormentor of conscience. The assembly of his greased and religious crew in praying was altogether like the croaking of frogs, which edified nothing at all.

Great thieves go Scott-free, as the Pope and his crew.

Since then your sere Majesty and your Lordships seek a simple answer, I will give it in this manner, neither horned nor toothed. Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. May God help me. Amen."

(Reply to the Diet of Worms, April 18, 1521)

Yet God didn't strike him dead. In fact after Paul, he's arguably the greatest influence on Christianity.

Sometimes even if you don't want to talk, the sheer scale of the evil and wickedness will not let you be.

Anyway, its no excuse to indulge like its fun. Pray God to help us be more even tempered about everything.

Cheers

Gombs: No, we should not for we are children of love, even though Satan has no ability to love. As for that song, it is baseless and unscriptural, and mostly sang by folks with lesser revelation knowledge, there is a level u get to, and u discover the devil is not a factor. Stop singing the song, it does not edify u sef!

@the bolded, that is my belief too.

As much as Jesus collected back the adamic authorithy and put Satan under our feet, it is however not a occasion to thread insults on the devil, Jesus never did so esp when He was tempted, if we are christians, we must emulate Christ.

Actually youre right. Jesus didnt insult him, he only called him a thief, a robber, a destroyer and the father of lies which are exactly what he was. Would I be wrong if I emulate Jesus in that manner?

I'm sorry sir, i missed you there, what immunity? do they insult the devil? if they do, and your pastor does too, well, they probably were in ignorance as they may have thought it right, but now you know, you can tell others better, or mail your pastor!

I mean if my pastor becomes like the devil and becomes a thief, a robber, a destroyer and a liar, would I be wrong if I emulate Jesus's description of the devil and call him that?

bro, man is a spirit, you CANNOT change man by the physical, he might change, but for a while due to mostly circumstance. That's why we intercede for the body of Christ, that's why we pray for the ministers of the gospel, that's why we decree that folks around the world are nourished by the Spirit in their shepherd.

coming to NL or social media to lamblast a pastor and his church does not in any way change what is happening in the church nor what the pastor does, does it?

Did you know rev King never brooked opposition or dissent to the extent that he flogs his members with cane sometimes? Don't you think a platform like NL could have opened people's eyes to it faster?

Now that he has been caught and jailed, what difference would it have made to Christ if he had been exposed earlier? (Even Ann could have been saved thereby)

how many times did you read in the bible where Jesus or Paul instructed the brethren to speak against a select group? Jesus istead told folks to obey their leaders but not to act as they did for they sat in the seat of Moses! you think Jesus didnt know em leaders then were misleading a select group? Did Jesus start a crusade against em leaders?

People like Rev Jim Jones were still being manufactured in the furnace of hell. Jesus and the apostles didn't experience them physically. If he did, he would have sanctioned every legal method to stop them before they destroy souls.

i see you want to give yourself a ministry..like kunle said his ministry is to fight tithing? but the big question is, what would your voicee have done from Nigeria? You see why is said we ought to pray? to effect changes we desire irrespective of distance and time?

I'm the one talking to you, pks leave Kunle out.

A lone voice might not do much but it takes just a spark to set a bush on fire. It irks me personally that I have to speak out sometimes but there's nothing in the bible that stops a Christian from speaking out against spiritual tyrants and frauds.

Martin Luther who was used by God to make me and you have access to the bible today did worse to the RCC leadership. I think we should learn to temper it but looking away isn't the right thing to do

Simple, Prayer

i beseech you to pray for ministers of the gospel, however they run it, just pray for them. We can adopt and use the language of the Apostle as our own, "Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit — that you strive together with me in your prayers to God for me." Romans 15:30. "Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should." Ephesians 6:19-20

"And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains. Pray [/b]that I may proclaim it clearly, as I should." Colossians 4:3-4. "Brethren,[b] pray for us." Thessalonians 5:25. "Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the Word of the Lord may have free course and be glorified, even as it is with you." 2 Thessalonians 3:1. "Pray for us. We are sure that we have a clear conscience and desire to live honorably in every way." Hebrews 13:18.

If Paul with all his gifts, graces, and success, thus prized and requested the prayers of the Lord's people for himself, then how much more may ministers of the gospel today; and with how much greater earnestness and importunity would we cry, Brethren, pray, pray, pray, for Pastors and church leaders!!

Do you advice I just look away?

no, get on your kneels! this is a sample prayer for pastors and church leaders

“Father, in the Name of Jesus, I pray and confess that the Spirit of the Lord rests upon ________ with the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of knowledge, and the fear of the Lord. I pray that as Your Spirit rests upon ________, it will make him/her of quick understanding because You, Lord, have anointed and qualified him/her to preach the gospel to the meek, the poor, the wealthy and the afflicted. You have sent ________ to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the physical and spiritual captives, and to open the prisons and the eyes of those who are bound. All people shall declare that ________ is a minister of the Lord because of the Word which he/she speaks in power and demonstration of the Holy Spirit.

“I pray and believe that no weapon formed against ________ shall prosper and that every tongue that rises against him/her in judgment shall be shown to be in the wrong. I pray that You prosper ________ spiritually, mentally, physically, financially and socially and in all abundance. I confess that ________ holds fast and follows the pattern of wholesome and sound teaching in all faith and love which is for us in Christ Jesus, and that ________guards and keeps with the greatest care the precious truth which has been entrusted to him/her by the Holy Spirit who makes His home in _______. Lord, I believe and say that you grant unto ________ that with freedom of utterance he/she will open his/her mouth boldly and courageously as he/she ought to do to proclaim the gospel to the people. I hereby confess that I stand behind ________ and undergird him/her in prayer. I will say only that good thing that will edify _______. I will continue to intercede for him/her and speak and pray blessings upon him/her in the Name of Jesus.”

http://www.kcm.org/real-help/prayer/prayer-those-who-spread-gospel

You're right we need to pray more but that will be for those who are sincerely mistaken. Some are devils who have been sent to get plenty candidates to hell.

May God lead us aright.

Cheers

mbaemeka: Everything is all muddled up again. I know about persecution for the sake of the gospel and I must not be scourged, beaten, flogged etc before saying I have been persecuted.

What I don't understand is how you can see the many verses in which God tells the apostles about the violent beatings and 'sufferings' they will undergo for his name (individually) yet when I arrogate the same powers that he gave them to waltz through life to myself you call me a thief?

Oh so God gave them power to perform all kinds of miracles and also suffer for his name but he gave me the suffering aspect and reserved future powers for heaven?

Philip teleported after ministering to the Ethiopian eunuch, has that happened to you before? How many prisons where Christians are locked up have you seen earthquate break open to free them? Jesus walked on water at will, has that been experienced by you before? Visible cloven tongues like fire came down on Pentecost, has that happened in your gatherings before?

Miracles happen. I've seen miracles happen (though not on the scale of the apostles). I experienced one in my household on 1st august with the circumstances surrounding the birth of my son and I didn't even ask a single pastor to pray for me.

God answers prayers but whether we can reenact the acts of the apostles without trying cunning acts in the process is what I can't say for sure.

I'm open-minded about this point but I'll try and keep an even more open mind henceforth. What I'll never accept are cheap tricks in the name of 'miracles'. God doesn't need miracles to validate him.

mbaemeka: I don't take anything you say personal. I know you don't agree with some of BabaGnoni's nonsense or shdemidemi's that's why I don't call you all a general name. As much as possible I try to discuss based on each persons personal beliefs. But you don't afford me the same courtesy.

My Psalms 82 exegesis is as clear as crystal. GOD said "Ye are gods and all of you are CHILDREN of the most high". Jesus said if "God called his children gods simplybecause they received his words why AM I not more God than they if he gave birth to me and the scriptures cannot be broken?"

Theres nothing to add or remove from there.

Jesus is the only begotten son. We are adopted children. One of my inlaws has an adopted child, no matter how they love-vendor him, he CAN NEVER share the same DNA wirh my inlaw. He can share priviledges but NEVER their makeup and there are some priviledges strictly associated with this makeup. So it is with us and the Godhead.

There's a reason why we pray in Jesus name. If I'm equal with him, why should I pray in his name? If I can do what God can do, why do I need him?

But then you and I can agree to disagree

mbaemeka: Simple comprehension again. In CHRIST I would have peace but In the WORLD I would have tribulation.

Am I In Christ OR am I in the WORLD?

I won't tire to show you.

Is it the invisible 'you' you're referring to or your physical body?

Was Paul in Christ or not when he suffered as enumerated below?

2 Corinthians 11:23-27 KJV
Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. [24] Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. [25] Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; [26] In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; [27] In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and unclothedness.

Do you not think he felt pains, pangs and terror in his body as a result? What do you make of that?

While answering refer to your post to Nlmediator where you said we can have peace without Christ. (Which is right btw) but we know Christ has the way he gives his own peace different from the world's. But if you are simple-minded this will pass you bye and you would muddle everything up (as is second-nature to you).

You're trying to turn a new leaf by talking gently, pls leave insults out so we can relate properly. I sabi play that game I trust you know?

Christ peace actually gives patience in tribulation. I wrote a piece on it sometime ago. If it won't be too much, you can go through it. I trust it answers your queries

https://www.nairaland.com/1334944/peace-mark-true-christian

mbaemeka: Calm down man, Jesus loves you. The intellectual beatings you are suffering will produce in you a far greater reward in eternity Okay?

Simple comprehension should have helped you in separating ideas and not in conflating all of them into one like you usually do.

I am a member of MENSA if you know what that means.

You're the one who needs to calm down. Even if you don't agree with what I say, stop taking it personal.

Simple comprehension of bible passages should have helped you realise that the god mentioned in psalms 82 wasn't referring to you neither was Jesus referring to you in John 10:34 too. Intellectual my foot

Congratulations on your membership of MENSA but I wish you'll stop falling the standard of that elite group. You're not representing them well.